Republicans from Fox’s Brit Hume to GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger(Ill.) have rushed to the defense Fox New reporter Jennifer Griffin, who was attacked by President Donald Trump for simply confirming aspects of the recent explosive story in The Atlantic. My column this weekend discussed the article alleging that Trump has spoken in disparaging terms of our veterans and war dead. Trump called for Griffin to be fired despite other news organizations also reporting that Trump has referred to veterans as “losers” and “suckers.” Trump seemed most upset by the fact that Griffin was saying that she “confirmed” the story when in fact she confirmed comments allegedly made about Vietnam veterans, not the specific alleged comment on war dead in France from World War I. That is a valid point, though likely lost on most citizens who correctly view such references to veterans of any war as vile and disgraceful. Moreover, it is outrageous for a president to call for a respected reporter to be fired for doing her job. Yet, what is most striking is how, again, Trump’s attacks only magnify the attention and damage of the story.
This latest controversy was triggered by an Atlantic article written by the magazine’s editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg. The article alleges damaging statements by Trump, such as dismissing the dead buried at Aisne-Marne American Cemetery as “losers” and “suckers.”
As many on this blog know, I am a military history nut and sometimes write in military history publications. Aisne-Marne is the resting place of some of our most inspiring heroes from the Battle of Belleau Wood. I will not detail the battle but it was one of the most defining struggles of the United States Marines, and the United States military generally in World War I.
Trump insisted that “Jennifer Griffin of Fox News Did Not Confirm ‘Most Salacious‘ Part of Atlantic Story breitbart.com/2020-election/ via @BreitbartNews All refuted by many witnesses. Jennifer Griffin should be fired for this kind of reporting. Never even called us for comment. @FoxNews is gone!”
His point appears to be that Griffin confirmed from other sources that Trump has made these offensive comments about Vietnam veterans (as have other journalists) but not that he referred to the Aisne-Marne dead as “losers” and “suckers.” She did confirm that Trump did not want to have the flags lowered for John McCain and other aspects of the story.
The failure to confirm the specific and “most salacious” allegation is significant. In fairness to Griffin, however. she makes it clear that she confirmed the statement on Vietnam veterans. The media took off on the “confirmation” story without making the distinction.
As noted in my column, a long list of officials and former officials, including the staunchly anti-Trump former National Security Adviser John Bolton, have denied the story on the comment regarding the World War I fallen. They were with him on this trip and in these meetings. Moreover, they have refuted that suggestion that Trump did not want to attend the ceremony out of concern for his hair (he in fact appeared as ceremonies on the trip in the rain).
Yet, for most Americans, this is like moving about the deck chairs on the Titanic. The confirmed aspects from the statement on Vietnam veterans to the McCain story are deeply disturbing and offensive.
Fox News has correctly rallied around Griffin as have figures on the left and right. This is not the type of unity that Trump should be striving to achieve in the country. Once again, President Trump’s personal attack has rendered his underlying point moot and irrelevant as Republicans and Democrats join in supporting Griffin.
Marine Major Who said I was dead. Send me the mortars and a thousand hand grenades.” It is a demand that no doubt would resonate with President Trump who seems to view the solution to any explosive political controversy as more explosives. However, Hamilton knew who the enemy was and his men knew the cause they were dying for. Hamilton was not asking them to die for him, but for a greater good. Many of those Marines are now buried at Aisne-Marne. That was an example of transcendent leadership that is tragically missing in this controversy.
Jennifer Griffin!
What better way to drop an off-the-shelf election bomb and take Nanshe “Let ‘Em Eat Blow-Outs” Antoinette and Blathering Idiot “Jim Crow” Joe out of the headlines?
Ya’all are sure foolin’ us!
That Deep Deep State sure is deep, huh, Jenn???
Did Jennifer Griffin report this 2 years ago?
Of course, not!
Communist (liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat, RINO) DNC marketing held her up because, two years ago, it was not time for a bogus “hit piece” two months in front of a presidential election.
Stop it, you dummies! Yer killin’ me!
Bless your Kool Aid™️ soaked heart, George.
Francis Brennan, “Director of Strategic Response for @RealDonaldTrump 2020 Campaign,” has tweeted a short video of Biden walking to his son Beau’s grave in the cemetery of St. Joseph on the Brandywine in Delaware, after attending church there this morning. A reporter yells to Biden, “Mr. Vice President come talk to us,” and Biden acknowledges the reporter with a wave and continues walking.
Under the video, Brennan adds only the following text:
“REPORTER: ‘Mr. Vice President come talk to us.’ Joe Biden just keeps meandering along.”
Biden was hardly “meandering.” He was walking to his son’s grave after church. Brennan is silent about that context. What an assh*le. Does he expect Biden to interrupt going to his son’s grave to talk with reporters? (I suppose Trump would do that, as he’s an attention glutton, but I actually doubt that Trump would choose to visit anyone’s grave on his own.)
And Trump this morning? He went golfing on a Trump-branded property. What a surprise. He visits a Trump property on average every 3 days or so, and golfs at one every 4 days or so. He funnels public funds into his own pockets with every trip, via Secret Service room rentals, golf cart rentals, …
He funnels public funds into his own pockets with every trip,
******
Of course Michelle Obama’s trips to Africa and everywhere else with a huge entourage, including her daughters, didn’t cost us a cent.
If you were any more transparent, Commit, you would be invisible.
If you read more carefully, Young, you might not make so many stupid comments. Or maybe you’d make them anyway, because you like to bait.
My comment wasn’t about about the cost to taxpayers. My comment was about Trump funneling public funds into his own pockets with his many trips to properties he owns and profits from. (Pence and others traveling to Trump properties also put money in Trump’s pockets, though not as often.)
AFAICT, that didn’t occur when the Obamas travelled, because the Obamas didn’t go to properties they owned nearly as often, and when they did, they weren’t renting rooms, golf carts, etc. to the Secret Service.
Biden did funnel some public funds into his own pockets by renting a cottage on his property to the Secret Service for a while. I don’t approve of that either, but at least Biden wasn’t charging them outrageous amounts. For ex., one article addressing both Biden and Trump says “Trump’s club [in Bedminster] charged the Secret Service $17,000 per month to rent a cottage near the president’s” compared with “Biden charged the Secret Service $2,200 a month to rent a cottage at his home in Delaware.”
David Fahrenthold (Washington Post):
“We’re trying to answer a simple question: How much money has the U.S. government paid to @realdonaldtrump’s private business? We don’t know the full answer yet. One reason: a lack of data from @DeptofDefense. We asked for their payments to Trump Org 188 days ago. No answer yet.
“Here’s what we know so far: Taxpayers have paid at least $900,000 to @realdonaldTrump’s private business. And — while Trump Org claimed in public that they charged “like 50 bucks” for hotel rooms — in private they were charging far more.”
https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1300879677800808450
So Trump and his kids have funneled in excess of $900,000 in public funds into their personal pockets.
As for the total costs to the public, regardless of whether they went into the pockets of the President and his family:
* Judicial Watch said that as of Sept. 2017, “the known total of [personal] travel expenses for former President Barack Obama and his family” was ~ $105M over 8 years.
* Trump family: we don’t know the total costs so far, because the Trump Admin. won’t allow the Secret Service to release the figures. But this GAO report on expenses just for early 2017 indicates that the total will be *much* higher, since it includes over $13M spent in a single month on Trump’s travel to Mar-a-Lago: https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/696512.pdf
CREW says “In the last fiscal two years, the Trump family has taken 3,249 protected trips. In seven years, the Obama family took a total of 933.” Their report didn’t include Obama’s protected travel in 2009 for some reason. But we can compare the averages: the Trump family has taken 12 times as many trips per year.
Cleveland.com:
“according to CBS News White House reporter Mark Knoller, who keeps meticulous vacation statistics on the presidents he’s covered … “Barack Obama took 328 vacation days in eight years …
“George W. Bush took 1,020 vacation days [in eight years] …
“Bill Clinton took 345 vacation days in eight years …
“George H. W. Bush took 543 vacation days [in four years]”
“By Knoller’s reckoning, Trump vacationed far more than Obama did at this point in his presidency, although he was gone less than Obama’s predecessor, George W. Bush.”
“according to CBS News White House reporter Mark Knoller, who keeps meticulous vacation statistics on the presidents he’s covered
He’s counting as a ‘vacation’ George W. Bush’s time at a ranch he owns in the Texas hill country, no matter what he was doing while he was there. By that standard, every office employee on work-from-home orders the last five months was ‘on vacation’.
TIA, it’s striking that you are silent about how much public money is going into the pockets of Trump and his family and how much more they’re costing the public more generally.
As for vacation days, you don’t present any alternative definition for “vacation day” or the count that corresponds to your definition. Do you conclude that every president takes zero vacation days, as they work wherever they are? Do you want to count part-days instead? Were Trump and Obama and other presidents working when they went out golfing?
Well what does he do with his presidential paycheck?
Funnels those public funds into other people’s pockets.
Charities.
The Obama family, by contrast, was notoriously stingy with their giving.
Your claim that “The Obama family, by contrast, was notoriously stingy with their giving” is false, Young. According to Snopes, Obama donated over $2.5 million to charities while in office: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-obama-salary-donations/
Trump was ordered by a court to dissolve the Trump Foundation and pay $2M to charities for misusing his foundation’s funds, and Trump hadn’t donated any of his personal funds to his Foundation from 2008 until 2016, I think. Wikipedia isn’t always reliable, but focus on the statements that are sourced to news reports for a good rundown of just what a grifter he was using others’ money to look generous or to benefit himself (e.g., paying his personal legal costs with Foundation funds):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Trump_Foundation
I don’t recall how much Obama donated to charities. I do recall reading that his contributions looked pretty paltry at one point. Perhaps he mended his ways and increased it after the publicity.
Don’t really care that much. Obama is the president who said he visited 57 states and who promised multiple times that his health care program would let people keep their insurance and their doctors. Also premiums would sink and deductibles would decline. People believed him. I didn’t because I didn’t think it was possible.
I also recall his slandering primary care doctors by saying they don’t treat diabetes properly because they make more money doing surgery removing limbs that are failing because of advanced diabetes than they make actually offering proper care.
I was sitting with primary care physicians when he said that. First, surgeons do surgery, not primary care physicians, so the family doctor gets nothing out of the surgery. Second, I knew that they fought hard to treat their diabetic patients and the biggest obstacle was the patients themselves. Many are noncompliant.
Obama was and is a grifter.
Commit– You were the one who told me wikipedia is unreliable and you don’t believe everything you reference. Now you are using it.
Here is another source on Obama’s charitable donations. Yeah, he is stingy.
https://www.marottaonmoney.com/tax-records-show-republicans-overly-generous-democrats-excessively-stingy/
Wikipedia isn’t reliable (or perhaps more accurately, the articles vary widely in their reliability), but it’s quite useful as long as you understand how to use it. I figured you understand how to use it. Am I wrong about that?
I gather that when you asked “What’s the margin of error when you cherry pick your sample?,” you were asking prospectively about your own choices, as you’re ignoring the majority of the Obamas’ donations and released returns.
The author of your reference is also dishonest. In a 2012 article, he says “The Obamas have since gradually increased their giving after having made their tax returns public,” but both their income and donations increased *quickly*, and that started *before* they first made their tax returns public in March, 2008, when Obama was running for President.
Marotta’s Bloomberg link is broken, but his quote allows one to find a more extensive quote from the March 26, 2008 Bloomberg article, written the day the Obamas released their 2000-2006 tax returns and reported what their 2007 returns would show. That Bloomberg article continues “The Obamas increased the amount they gave to charity when their income rose in 2005 and 2006 after the Illinois senator published a bestselling book. The $137,622 they gave over those two years amounted to more than 5 percent of their $2.6 million income. … [A campaign spokesman] said the Obamas gave $240,000 to charity in 2007, though they have yet to make last year’s tax returns public.” And of course they continued releasing their tax returns (copies here: https://www.efile.com/historic-1040-income-tax-returns-of-us-presidents-and-candidates/), so you can confirm that they earned $4.2M and donated $240K in 2007. In 2008, their total income was $2.7M and they donated $172K. In 2009, their total income was $5.5M and they donated $329K plus the entirety of Obama’s $1.4M Nobel Prize award. … Marotta could have included all of that info in his 2012 article, but he didn’t. He was purposefully dishonest, omitting the 2005-2011 info for Obama and then lying about what that info would have shown.
What’s especially ironic about this discussion is that we know what Obama donated because he made his tax returns public. Trump has run away from making his returns public — the first president since Nixon to do that. Trump is a coward when it comes to revealing his total income and total donations.
How do you think Trump would compare with Romney? Trump purports to be much richer than Romney. Did he give as large a percentage of his income? Or would we find that Trump is “stingy”?
If all the silly rhetoric of Needs to be Committed disappeared what would we be left with. Obama provides an empty shell with almost nothing that remains for future generations to admire. Perhaps those future generations will admire Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize unless of cours they note how empty that peace prize was when given, just as empty as Obama and his administration. He left the world in a worse place and left America in a worse place along with its citizens.
The future generation might see what Trump did in whatever buildings remain standing. Charity? Ask Maimonides what the highest level of charity is. The essence of the answer is giving a person a job for a job permits a person to no longer be reliant upon charity. Trump created a lot of jobs in his businesses and then later as President where he also improved the standing of America and its citizens.
He donates his salary.
I’d much rather that he kept his salary and refused to allow any government spending at his businesses. There would be much less of a conflict of interest that way.
And if you look at the total costs to the public, it might save us money. In a single month in 2017, the government spent over $13million on Trump’s trips to Mar-a-Lago. Would he travel to his properties as often if he weren’t personally profiting from every trip? Hard to know. He might go anyway just for the free advertising.
BTW, Young, I see you’re totally silent about my main point: Trump’s campaign DSR was an assh*le re: the video of Biden visiting his son’s grave.
I don’t read much of your stuff anymore so I missed it. It doesn’t sound like something I would care about. It must be obvious by now that I don’t want another Romney leading the party. He has the manners of a head waiter. We need someone much more robust and not disposed to be tip toeing around. We need Trump.
Nice peace deals he has worked out in the Middle East. Obama could never have pulled that off. Although, in a way he is responsible. He enabled Iran’s nuclear program so much he scared the crap out of everyone else in the region. By comparison, getting friendly with Israel and other non-Muslim countries looks pretty good now.
As for Biden, I am surprised he remembers he had another son. He is sinking fast. Come to think of it, I wonder if he was wondering why he was being directed to some grave somewhere. Might be important, maybe. If he goes along maybe they will give him another cookie.
Trump has a membership there and he has a room. Not like the Obamas who had to pay for everything when they went golfing around the world.
ANOTHER SELF-INFLICTED WOUND BY TRUMP
Let’s say for the sake of argument that Donald Trump is being ‘swift-boated’. When the main sources are ‘Anonymous’ it is easy for defenders to allege a frame-up.
But Donald Trump has ‘swift-boated’ himself just by making statements over time that made us question his respect for soldiers. Which should serve as a lesson to every politician. ‘Don’t put out statements that can boomer-rang back’. Never lay the groundwork for a swift-boat campaign.
Twice in this past year Donald Trump has made rash military decisions without consulting generals.
There was Trump’s sudden decision to sell-out Kurdish allies in Syria. Then more recently Trump decided, by himself, to withdraw 10,000 U.S. troops from Germany.
Trump made that latter decision, on his own, after Chancellor Merkle declined a G 7 summit. She declined in deference to the pandemic. Only days later Trump decided, by himself, to do Vladimir Putin a favor while dissing Angle Merkle. At the moment Trump’s decision has been openly discouraged by almost everyone in Washington.
So ‘no’, Trump has no respect for our military institutions. Trump has no respect for ‘any’ institutions. Trump claims he’s ‘draining swamps’ but he’s a runaway wrecking ball; just smashing willy-nilly at every building Downtown.
Trump pulled troops out of Germany because Germany was not meeting its promises to support NATO and because, quite frankly, Germany is no longer sharing a border with the dangerous regions to the east. Poland is closer to the danger zone and Trump is moving troops there. Makes sense. Why should we continue to support the German economy with troops in a backwater when they are better placed in Poland?
You think it does Putin a favor to move US troops closer to Russia’s border? Apparently you are not very familiar with military history.
Young, in Germany we have a front rank nation willing to host us in the middle of Central Europe. For years we have invested in the infrastructure of bases there. Why jeopardize that arrangement when it really costs no more to keep our troops there??
If we move troops further east, then we need to build a whole new system of bases. Those costs will negate any benefit from moving. Just stay where we are! Trump will be gone in January. He’s essentially a lame duck trying to stick us with decisions made out of spite.
PaintChips you are the poster boy for why house paint shouldn’t have any lead in it.
Allan is the poster boy for why house paint shouldn’t have any lead in it.
Merkle wants to but billions of dollars worth of natural gas and oil from Putin. But if the Russians start to get aggressive with Germany she expects Americans to show up and die for Germany. I don’t think so.
That is why Svelaz or PaintChips sound quite stupid when talking about NATO affairs.
Allan, I never discussed NATO affairs, reading comprehension problems seem to be an issue with you.
BTW we still have a binding treaty with NATO. If Russia got aggressive with Germany we ARE obligated to respond. It’s a big point of being a NATO member.
Better to respond if we don’t have to trample through too many other countries to close with the enemy.
“Allan, I never discussed NATO affairs, reading comprehension problems seem to be an issue with you.”
I already told you in my statement referred to you or PaintChips (“That is why Svelaz or PaintChips sound quite stupid when talking about NATO affairs.”) I can’t figure out which one of the two of you is dumber so I merge you together since you both seem to think in the same fashion (there is another or two that are similar as well). Too many sock puppets and aliases make people rely on content and your content is ignorant matching the content of PaintChips in style. I’ll use my labelling when dealing with stupid people that will repeat lies even after the truth has be revealed and documented.
“BTW we still have a binding treaty with NATO. If Russia got aggressive with Germany we ARE obligated to respond. It’s a big point of being a NATO member.”
Your by the way has some reality attached, but tell me why is Germany bolstoring Russian strength if the US is protecting Germany from Russia. Your statement is pretty much what PaintChips said but he couldn’t go further in the argument. Let’s see if you can differentiate yourself from PaintChips.
Alan, you’re the stupidest commenter by far on this blog. You’re frozen in the Cold War era. Yet strangely you see Putin as heroic.
Allan’s a frequent liar too.
Anonymous the Stupid, I don’t lie but on rare occasions I make an error. I would greatly appreciate it if you are able to point out the errors when they occur.
Pro tip: Separate errors of fact from opinion.
You can check the meaning of those words in the dictionary.
Anonymous the Stupid, I see Putin for who he is, a dictator with nuclear weapons to back him up leading a country that is dying demographically.
I doubt you will fully understand what I say because your intellect was lost at birth.
Really, you just pointed out how Merkel had a change of heart. Actually you and the left are still in the Cold War era. Russia hasn’t been the big threat for a long time. China is and Biden’s family profited from China while VP and some of those family connections seem to have sold American military secrets to the Chinese.
Bob, you should know, Merkle is currently having second thoughts on that deal.
“Merkle is currently having second thoughts on that deal.”
Certainly not based on the rhetoric from the left. She may be reconsidering the deal because of what Trump has succeeded in. Go Trump.
Most telling is that the only person who went on record besides White House officials put out by the administration was John Bolton. Obviously Bolton has an ax to grind with Trump as evidenced by his negative book on him. However, his book covered the incident and did not mention any of these reports. Bolton said on record that he was present during the meetings regarding that trip to the cemetery and did not hear any of the references. He said if he had heard such remarks, he would have dedicated a whole chapter to it.
As for Jennifer Griffin, I have watched Brett Baier’s News Report on FoxNews from time to time for a number of years to get a different perspective from the mainstream news I frequent daily. Griffin is a very professional reporter, has excellent reports, and seems to have very good sources. Her reports are as neutral as you would find in this age of biased media. I would say she is the very best correspondent on Fox’s roster. I did see her report that enraged Trump. My only problem with it was that again it referenced “anonymous sources”.
Megyn Kelly was very good up till she got her orders to nail Trump during the debate. She nailed her own reputation to the bathroom wall.
Griffin is good, but someone who has worked for Fox says that everyone knows she is a dedicated Never-Trumper. With the election coming this is as good a time as any to take the mask off. Her anonymous sources are crap. The story is already falling to pieces.
A party that is ready to destroy cities to win an election will not hesitate to continue to pour a deluge of lies on Trump’s reputation. I expect them to try multiple ways of cheating on the vote as well. They tried it last time.
“In tell-all book, Michael Cohen says Trump hired a ‘Faux-Bama’ before White House run”
By Erica Orden, CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/michael-cohen-book-trump-white-house/index.html
(https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1302637121174462465
Radley Balko:
“Seems like a totally normal thing that a normal person would do. Also, we should entrust someone who does normal things like this with the most powerful job on the world.”)
If true, it’s pretty crazy.
It’s true. In 2012, Trump spent ~$100,000 to produce a parody of The Apprentice where he “fired” Obama, hoping that it would be played at the 2012 RNC convention. But apparently Romney axed it. Trump later complained “The reason they didn’t put it on is because they thought it was too controversial. Controversy. It might not be politically correct.” Breitbart got a copy of the video in 2013. I’m not going to post a link, but it can be found online.
But I wonder whether Trump only did this in the hopes that it would be played by the RNC, or if he also did it because he gets off on denigrating Obama. If you watch the video, some of the things Trump criticizes “Obama” about are things where Trump’s own record is worse. No surprise, I suppose — analogous to “there’s always a tweet.”
“But apparently Romney axed it”
****
Romney had no guts. He collapsed like a punctured yard balloon during the second debate. And he was a backstabber. He pleaded for Trump’s support when he was running for Senate and got it. Then he turned into another Harry Reid and stabbed Trump in the back. Actually, I prefer Reid since he faces his enemies front rather than slithers up behind his back.
Does Trump get off denigrating Obama? Don’t know; don’t care. Obama did us enormous harm and probably should be in prison. Denigration is a mild penalty.
“…he gets off on denigrating Obama. ”
yes
So do I.
Actually it sounds very funny and likely would have been effective. Too bad Romney dirtied his underwear at the thought of it.
Glenn Greenwald:
“With respect to @Sulliview, a conscientious journalist, there is, in practice, no standard governing the use of anonymity by mainstream news outlets except one:
When powerful people want to disseminate claims to the public with no accountability, they demand- and get- anonymity:…”
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1302609415816835072
When powerful people want to disseminate claims to the public with no accountability [OR NO TRUTH] they demand- and get- anonymity:…”
…thus Greenwald’s use of the word “claim.”
live @ 4pm Texas Time then looped/also stored commercial free on banned.video:
https://www.infowars.com/watch-alex-jones-show/
I thought at 1st it was a Buddhist priest but multiple anonymous sources, Paint Chip & BTB, later confirmed to me it was Anti-American people from the Atlantic & that whining little b.itch Jeffrey Goldberg.
I thought the 3rd video down was the best. It’s the Sunday feel good video, it’s 1:27 minutes.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/man-catches-fire-after-comrade-throws-molotov-portland-riot-declared-tear-gas-deployed
New WaPo story, “Louis DeJoy’s rise as GOP fundraiser was powered by contributions from company workers who were later reimbursed, former employees say.” If true, then Postmaster General DeJoy has broken the law.
Recall that in 2017 the RNC announced “Elliott Broidy, Michael Cohen, and Louis DeJoy will serve as National Deputy Finance Chairmen,” along with Chair Steve Wynn. Wynn stepped down in response to rape allegations. Cohen is already a convicted felon. Criminal info was filed in Hawaii on 8/25 “implicating but not charging RNC Finance Elliott Broidy (Person B) with FARA violations in connection with lobbying Trump to squash the 1MDB investigation and to remove Guo Wengui to China” (https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1298261544761880583) and the Post subsequently reported that “Federal prosecutors are preparing to charge longtime GOP fundraiser Elliott Broidy in connection with efforts to influence the U.S. government on behalf of foreign interests, according to people familiar with the matter, a result of a sprawling, years-long investigation that involved a figure who helped raise millions for Donald Trump’s election and the Republican Party.”
Trump surrounds himself with convicted or alleged criminals. I wonder why. /s
Multiple anonymous sources allege that the President made disparaging remarks against veterans. Direct witnesses refute said account.
Subsequently, the reporter in question “confirms” through anonymous sources that the original anonymously sourced story was apparently correct in some aspects according to sources.
Anonymous sources confirming anonymous sources. Brilliant. This is supposed to be “news”? If I create a story and conveniently have two sets of anonymous sources, I can create a narrative out of thin air and have it “confirmed” while extending the media spin cycle for maximum impact. You may not even need two sets–it could be the same sources simply confirming themselves.
Trump is right to call out this type of “reporting”. It’s utterly disgraceful.
Then again, with Biden’s polling taking a distinct turn in a southerly direction, who cares about journalism and facts when you control most of the media?
The narrative is the imperative.
M, you don’t understand how reporting on the powerful works. Anonymous sources are SOP and our belief – or not – in them is logically based on the reporter’s reputation. It’s how much news is gathered and reported, including Watergate. In this instance, 3 different reporters with excellent reputations and from different companies confirmed essentially the same information – Trump disrespects members of the military. If we were to adopt your standard the powerful would become more immune and we citizens would know much less about their actions, no matter which party they were members of.
There was a day when anonymously sourced information like this wouldn’t be published. Of course, that was also when classified information wasn’t leaked sieve-like to the press for political advantage.
Bottom line, you have no idea whether it’s true or made up from whole cloth. In these cases, I’ll always go with the direct evidence versus the anonymous source.
M, fortunately there was never a day in modern America – let’s say since WWI – when anonymous sources were not used by reporters, and we are mostly the better for it. If one has direct evidence, sure, it will be superior, but based on the reputation of those citing the anonymous sources, it is often the only way we will begin to hear of deeds intended to be secret, and often to the detriment of citizens.
Sometimes anonymous sources are committing deeds rather than relating them. Look at the scoundrels leaking to the media during the Russian fiasco.
Such cr-p. We have accepted anonymous sources under certain situations but in general anonymous sources are a lousy way of reporting news.
Most of the anonymous sources are leaked for political reason which is not in the best interest of the people of this nation. Today, most of the anonymous sources are hit jobs creating news that never existed. You like that type of nonesense because it proves one doesn’t have to know anything or have any brains in his head to comment on almost anything. You are essentially anonymous and you account for many different aliases where even some of those comments come under the name of anonymous. You have proven that anonymous sources aren’t trustworthy. Your credibility is at zero or below.
Allan’s credibility is at zero or below.
Anonymous sources confirming anonymous sources. The technical term for that is rumor. Yet people love to believe comforting rumors, and as long as they do other people will continue to feed their need. It’s simply a matter of sophists feeding nincompoops. It’s on the same moral and intellectual plane as selling lottery tickets. We live in a world where confirmation bias is a multi-billion dollar industry.
The anonymous sources are judged reliable and authoritative by the journalists who quoted them. Again, the believability of these stories hinge on the reputations of the reporters, which in this case is high. That they are from different companies adds to their believability. Information like this is not sufficient for a trial but it is the best we citizens can often get about actions by the powerful.
GENERAL KELLY REFUSES TO COMMENT ON STORY
And that should tell us all we need to know.
Oh how the leftists from the sixties and seventies still prevail. They protested the war and degraded the services of the military. I served in Viet Nam and upon returning to the states I was mocked, spat on and called all kinds of offensive names. Now these same twirps are casting a negative shadow on President Trump. Making foul claims without actual proof. He avoided the war “yes” like lots of men of military age, some with legitimate reasons others not so much, this happens in every war where the draft is used. Today we have a volunteer military “Bravo” for those that do join, my deepest gratitude. I don’t hold any grudge for those that avoided the Vietnamese war. To the government that did nothing but tie our hands in Vietnam “shame”, to the Military Brass I lost all respect. Now it seems the same mentality at the highest level of the Pentagon has returned. God help this wonderful country.
Claiming to confirm something while not confirming it is not doing your job.
She confirmed it through her sources. Unless she has a time machine, that’s the only way you can.
What is lost in most comments, press or social media, is the fact all of this is anonymous statements. If he said this, he should be soundly defeated because Commander in Chief is the first responsibility listed in Article 2, section 2 of the president in the constitution.
But writing lies, confirming lies and supporting lies, if these are lies, should open people to legal proceedings along with their employers.
How many people are just accepting anonymous statements as 100% true and have changed their vote when it could be 90% lies? Isnt that what anonymous statements are for?
I don’t see anyone losing track of the fact that the claims were made by sources that aren’t named publicly. But the reporters know who their sources are, and we have reporters from multiple outlets stating that their sources have confirmed it to them. We also have people like Bolton making public statements that confirm it sounds like something Trump would say — based on other things Trump has said to him. And we have people like Gen. Kelly remaining silent, when we can bet he’d speak on Trump’s behalf if the claims were false.
So the question is: what does the combination of all of the evidence and counterevidence suggest is likely true here?
We also know that Trump has already lied about the trip, as when he falsely claimed “I called home, I spoke to my wife and I said ‘I hate this. I came here to go to that ceremony.’ And to the one that was the following day which I did go to. I said I feel terribly. And that was the end of it.” But Melania wasn’t “home,” and Trump didn’t call home to talk with her about it. She was with Trump in France, and her WH travel readout stated at the time that “Due to inclement weather, the First Lady and President were unable to visit the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery and Memorial in Belleau, France.” (whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/readout-first-lady-melania-trumps-visit-france/) How stupid does he have to be to lie about this when it’s so easy to debunk?
Here is a quote from Bolton within another quote:
“John Bolton wrote in his recently published book that a motorcade could take up to two hours each way “along roads that were not exactly freeways, posing an unacceptable risk.”
“The press turned canceling the cemetery visit into a story that Trump was afraid of the rain and took glee in pointing out that other world leaders traveled around during the day,” Bolton wrote. “Of course, none of them were the President of the United States, but the press didn’t understand that rules for U.S. Presidents are different from the rules for 190 other leaders who don’t command the world’s greatest military forces.”
Allan, “A” motorcade as to saying “The” motorcade? If Bolton was talking about the same roads that other world leaders took without a problem.
I call BS on your “quote”. Post a link to the source stating the quote.
Your excuses are becoming more and more hilarious. That trump requires a more specialized treatment than all the others. LOL!!! The event was already planned and security figured out long before this “inclement weather” excuse came up. Events such as the cemetery visit are planned way in advance.
Do you really think that didn’t happen?
“The event was already planned and security figured out long before this “inclement weather” excuse came up. ”
God, you really are stupid. Trump was going to go by helicopter. That was the security arrangement.
“I call BS on your “quote”. Post a link to the source stating the quote.”
Another stupid remark. You would know the link if you read the all the quotes. You don’t know the source because you are a liar and never read what was written.
” other world leaders took without a problem.”
Other world leaders are not the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. I don’t know what their arrangements are or who attended. Did all the leaders attend. Provide us with their names and your sources.Tell us how they get around elsewhere and compare the level of threat to their persons and that of Trump. Provide sources.
Allan sweetheart, whether he was going by helicopter or car, every event is planned for any contingency. Other world leaders went by car when they too couldn’t fly.
Otherwise we must have the most incapable secret service and military if they couldn’t put the president at a cemetery that other nation’s military could.
Being the most powerful leader should have made it EASIER to get there you moron.
Other leaders arrangements were COORDINATED with Trump’s. That’s how things work in presidential events where other world leaders are involved.
Allan how would I know the link if you didn’t post it. The burden of proof is on you. Come on man. I wouldn’t be slinging the word “stupid” when clearly you’re referring to yourself.
“Allan sweetheart, whether he was going by helicopter or car, every event is planned for any contingency.”
That is not true and you have to be really stupid to believe your own words. Things are changed all the times. The only singular item that is always planned with multiple contingencies is how to keep the President safe.
“Allan how would I know the link if you didn’t post it. ”
Those links were posted and could be found or even looked up by an individual that has brains and is not a lazy bit of mush. In any event, you have been told many times what Bolton said in his book so only stupid people like yourself can’t find one of the most quoted comments made today.
CTHD. Liars have to be stupid to lie because the lies are most always uncovered.
So this was an issue when it happened. Was there not debate at the time about flying vs motorcade and security. I vaguely remember something, but not sure if this was part of it.
In the past, I would accept anonymous sourced info. Today I have so little trust and respect for journalist, they are below “Happy Jack” corner used car salesmen in trustworthy professions. I believe nothing anonymous, even when their are multiple individuals supposedly quoted. Who can verify one, let alone multiple individuals?
And just to let you know my political leanings, my top three presidents are JFK, Reagan and Clinton. My worst three are Carter, Bush (43) and Obama. I did not vote for Trump nor H.Clinton nor will I vote for Trump or Biden. When candidates are equally bad for a country for different reasons, I will vote for something positive. Right now that is getting enough support for a third party to gain federal campaign funds to at least influence policy and moderate to positions of the two parties in future elections.
Ron, I try to look at all of the relevant evidence and counterevidence, and my judgments depend on the combination. I do not trust a single thing Trump says unless there’s external confirmation, as he’s a pathological liar. And regardless of whether this is true or false, we know from Trump himself that he’s dismissed TBIs as “headaches … I do not consider that to be bad injuries,” he’s pardoned a war criminal, he’s mistreated Lt. Col. Vindman and his brother, he’s refused to confront Putin about Russian bounties on our troops, … Whether or not he said what’s alleged, I consider him unfit as CiC.
He also deported a war criminal back to Germany. Nobody mistreated Vindman. Democrat Senator Tim Kaine admitted that Trump made Russia pay a price while Obama did not (https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1283796122021044224). Obama commuted a terrorist. The conclusion is you are fake news.
Tony, Trump doing some things that I agree with (like deporting Jakiw Palij) does not excuse his bad acts, like pardoning a US war criminal.
You claim “Nobody mistreated Vindman.” But Trump fired both Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman *and* his brother, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman, from the NSC and reportedly interfered with the former’s promotion. Not only does that partisan interference harm Vindman himself, it harms the non-partisan military promotion system. I know that there have been calls for the DOD IG to start an investigation of illegal retaliation; I don’t know whether the IG has decided to do this.
Kaine’s claim is false. There was no public price paid *before* the 2016 election because Mitch McConnell refused to agree to a bipartisan announcement about the Russian interference, but Obama publicly sanctioned Russia *after* the election. Moreover, when Flynn spoke with Kislyak that same day, he said absolutely nothing condemning the interference and instead asked that the Russians not escalate.
“Obama commuted a terrorist”
Yup. I’d have to read more to see whether I agree. Either way, he was in his 70s and had already served 36 years, and Obama didn’t pardon him. Trump pardoned a war criminal in his 30s after he served only 6 years.
“you are fake news.”
I feel sorry for you that you choose to respond that way, when I said nothing false, nor have you provided any evidence that anything I said was false. I think Trump supporters use “fake news” to describe news they don’t like.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.” — Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism
But Trump fired both Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman *and* his brother, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman, from the NSC and reportedly interfered with the former’s promotion.
I love the ‘reportedly’. ‘Sez who?
I have news for you: the majority of people up for promotion to full colonel are denied the promotion and have to leave the service. Since Lt. Col. Vindman was overweight and had a bad attitude (among other things thinking his commander in chief was accountable to ‘the Interagency’, denial of the promotion was facially appropriate. The military is up-or-out and he wasn’t denied his promotion, some other guy would have to depart the service. Whose career do you propose we end in order to keep this scheming sack of fluffer-nutter?
“‘Sez who?”
Says news reports like this one: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/06/19/trump-nixing-promotion-of-army-impeachment-witness-could-politicize-military-senators-warn/
“the majority of people up for promotion to full colonel are denied the promotion and have to leave the service”
Says who?
You still seem unable to separate opinion from fact Ms Secretary. Just keep typing all those statements on one page and put them out on the net without distinguishing fact from fiction and fact from opinion.
For clarity another quote within a quote: The remarks are by Trump:
“Trump said he was ready to go to the ceremony by motorcade because of the inclement weather but the Secret Service blocked the trip, citing operational difficulties.
“They said, ‘You can’t do it.’ So I said, ‘I want to do it.’ They said, ‘You can’t.’ There was no way I would have been able to do it. And they would never have been able to get the police and everybody else in line to have a president, go through a very crowded, very congested area,” Trump said.
“So I went and I called home, I spoke to my wife, I said, ‘I hate this, I came here to go to that ceremony.’ And for the one that was the following day, which I did go to. I said, ‘I feel terrible,’ and that was the end of it. Now all of a sudden somebody makes up this horrible story that I didn’t want to go, and then they make up an even worse story, an even worse story, calling certain names to our fallen heroes. It’s a disgrace that a magazine is able to write it.”
At the time the visit was scuttled to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery, Trump on social media blamed bad weather.
“By the way, when the helicopter couldn’t fly to the first cemetery in France because of almost zero visibility, I suggested driving. Secret Service said NO, too far from airport & big Paris shutdown. Speech next day at American Cemetery in pouring rain! Little reported-Fake News!” he wrote.”
Allan, you’re full of $h!t. The president who is well known to be a pathological liar has no credibility whatsoever.
The secret service cannot say NO to the president of he was insistent on going as he claims. He’s the commander in Chief. If he wants to do something the secret service or the military are required to obey the requests.
Trump already LIED about why he wasn’t able to go claiming he called melania at home when she was with him in France.
These quotes within quotes have a source with a link?
“The president who is well known to be a pathological liar has no credibility whatsoever.”
I have read your prior sources listing his lies but when I took the so-called lies provided and showed that the article didn’t state the truth you ran away just like your close friend PAintChips. Both of you are equally ignorant.
If you wish to debate the lies provide the most important lies and your proof. We can debat them in depth instead of debating superficially which is what is par for the course for you.
The President is Commander and Chief but when it comes to specific security concerns he tells them what he wants and they tell him the best ways of accomplishing his desires. You apparently have never held a leadership position or been an employer. You don’t seem to understand things that even children can understand without thinking too hard.
Allan, I have noted you have a penchant for playing the “show me proof and I’ll discuss the substance of it by ignoring it and changing the subject”. You already demonstrated that you cannot have a discussion of substance without going on a tangent every time.
Notice you changed your position from the secret service telling the president “no” to “offering options”. That’s a very different set of claims. That’s how I know you just don’t know what you’re talking about. SMH.
Svelaz, you speak about differences without differences. Read what Ron P said regarding the law. We all live under that law though leftists don’t believe the law applies to them.
To prove or disprove what I have said all you have to do is look up Bolton’s comments on the subject including what he wrote about it in his book. I think his comments have been quoted a multiplicity of times and as I have said earlier today”
“Atlantic Editor Concedes Central Claim Of Trump Hit Piece Could Be Wrong
On Sunday, Atlantic Editor in Chief Jeffrey Goldberg admitted the White House’s account that President Trump’s trip to a cemetery of fallen World War I soldiers in France in 2018 was modified due to bad weather is probably accurate.”
In the article Bolton’s statement was read in a rather complete fashion and Jeffrey Goldberg was asked about that statement by Bolton that has been copied on this blog.
Goldberg’s answer very surprisingly was that Bolton’s statement was true. It was captured on video and his exact remark was “hm… my response is…I’m sure all those things are true” at which time Goldberg changed the subject.
Allan doesn’t seem to understand things that even children can understand without thinking too hard.
Anonymous the Stupid, in an infantile way what you said is true. I don’t understand baby talk.
Svelaz, yes the secret service can overrule the president. According to 18 U.S.C. 3056, the U.S. Secret Service has the total support of the federal law to regulate the protection of the President of the United States. The President is like the rest of us, he is (technically) required to be obedient to the law of the land. So if the S.S. determines that any trip or activity is too dangerious, they say no and the president can only obey. If he insist, then they can determine if alternatives exist to make a trip or appearance safe, but it is their decisiin, not POTUS.
Ron P. POTUS can overrule the safety concerns, especially when the situation isn’t as security averse as it seems. Other world leaders attended the cemetery with no problems.
The excuses keep changing and that’s the problem. It went from bad weather, security, to inconveniencing a town.
Trump just didn’t want to go and he made up excuses. He chose to not honor our war dead because he saw no benefit to himself in doing so.
Section 3056 requires the president to follow the orders of the secret service. No if, ands or buts. They will pick his ass up and carry him to safety of he refuses, just as the physically carried Cheney to the bunker in 2000 removing him from a important meeting. He can throw a “Trump tantrum” and they could care less. He can threaten to fire all of them and they could care less. If the SS says the Helo does not fly, it does not fly. If they say it is impossible to protect you for X miles on Paris streets without notice, the car does not move. He can order them to devise an alternative safe method to get from A to B. but that is all.
If you can find documentation that specifically say otherwise, I would love to see it. They did not even tell Bush 43 where he was going in 2000. According to History.com ” President Bush repeatedly insisted that he return to Washington to address the nation (after the twin towers collapsed). The World Trade Center towers had crumbled, the Pentagon had been hit and Flight 93 had crashed into a field in Pennsylvania.” ……..and the SS refused to allow the plane to return to Washington.
https://www.history.com/news/september-11-air-force-one-president-bush
If he could not overule the SS in a time of crisis, Trump would never be able to for an event such as the one we are discussing.
Loads of quotes below that are not anonymous which is what Needs to be Committed relies on to distort the news. Trump’s hair was not the problem since he attended the event in a closer cemetary in a tremendous rainfall. The dishonesty of this liar CTDHD is appalling.
————–
“Four On-The-Record Sources Rebut Anonymously Sourced Trump Military Story
BY ZACHARY STIEBER September 4, 2020 Updated: September 5, 2020 Print
Four people forcefully rebutted a story that relied entirely on anonymous sources to claim that President Donald Trump decided not to visit a military cemetery in France in 2018 because he feared his hair would become disheveled.”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/four-on-the-record-sources-rebut-anonymously-sourced-trump-military-story_3488047.html
As the election approaches we can expect a deluge of phony attacks on Trump and we can expect Commit to post nearly all of them. Commit’s hatred of Trump is so extreme I expect a nervous breakdown if Trump wins again. I wonder if Commit was the person in the famous photo of someone screaming in rage when Trump first won?
Meanwhile, Trump may be the best President we have had since Washington.
“Meanwhile, Trump may be the best President we have had since Washington.”
WOW! Guess you rate Warren Hardy the 2nd best.
Ron, why don’t you list a few things in order of those things that are most important to you and state where Trump failed and why you believe Biden or any prominent individual could do better.
Allen, First, I said in a comment to CTHD that I did not vote for Trump, nor Clinton. I also said I can not vote for Biden. I also said the three best in my mind was JFK, Reagan and Clinton, so you look at that and find that I have support for different policies given the period they were in office.
With that said, you can also read my comment to CTHD about Biden and left win support for entitlement programs. But Trumps anti social bullying of anyone that does not support his policies has done more to create more social media bullies, many who post death threats. And these exist on the far right and far left.
For those that have had TDS since the beginning, they will agree. To the undying Trump supporter, they will disagree. But even though I support much of his policies, the man is someone I would not invite to dinner nor vote for since another 4 yrs of his attack policies will further enlarge the adult bully club that leads to further division.
There’s too much ‘division.’ United we stand, divided we fall.
Ron, I have read your comments. I don’t find anything disingenuous or offensive with what you say even if I might disagree with your opinions. That is why I wanted to hear what your important issues were and why one person or another would be better suited than Trump for the job.
I don’t think you have to like Trump personally or want him over for dinner. You are not marrying him so what you want from him is quite different. Competence is something I am sure you want. The next step is looking at the areas of competence that are most important to you (my initial question).
The only thing in your reply that you have highlighted must be important to you and one of the things at the very top of your list.
“Trumps anti social bullying of anyone that does not support his policies has done more to create more social media bullies, many who post death threats.”
The bullying is low down on my list. The left has always been in your face and the right almost always takes a step back. A lot of never Trumpers can’t stand the idea of actually engaging in behavior you and I normally dislike. Presently, however, for the sake of Americans and America I want to see more engagement and responses in kind though I am not looking for violence and leave that entirely to the left that is burning down our cities and lets inner cities rot with massive numbers of killings.
As far as social bullying goes, that is what the left is known for. They shame people and corporations. They control technology and censor ideas that promotethe development of a society they favor (They wish to control America and what better way to do it than to control the media, education and the government.) Trump is unusual. He cannot be shamed and believes in himself. That offends some people but sometimes that type of person is a necessity. He isn’t right on everything, but IMO he is right on the most important things on my list and if you have read my serious discussions (not the one’s with crazies) then likely you know what is most important to me.
Allan, I guess I could be persuaded to vote for Trump. If I see that it is close enough in N.C. that my vote could make a difference, then I could hold my nose and mark that space on the ballot.
I have supported most everything he has put out, including his “fair, not free” trade policies which I call a policy where it is free as long as its free at both ends. Cutting spending ( until Covid) tax policy and others.
But one thing I do support, which will never happen is Medicare buy-in with no added cost.
Buy in at actuarial calculated rates same as private insurance calculates rates.
Creates competition like Medicare advantage created competition for that market giving subscribers much more than traditional MC
Elimination of Obamacare, moving subsidies from PPACA to MC buy-in.
No mandate, preserving freedom of choice.
Elimination of Medicaid, moving ‘Caid subsidies to MC buy-in
Rates adjusted yearly, based on legislation and not yearly budgeting taking politics out of rate changes.
I know people need help with insurance because I have seen that from working in healthcare finance for 35+yrs because insurance companies take premiums for years and when a large claim is filed, the subscriber was dropped. I know some need financial assistance. I know in many instances Medicaid is substandard care. ( One with good insurance gets joint replacement or open heart surgery, Medicaid goes home with medication). And giving people option to buy into Medicare creates competition for corporate insurance and competition is good.
Ron, a Medicare buy in is an interesting concept based on some good rationals but I wouldn’t support it. Medicare IMO is a flawed program but it was for a limited group of people directly and indirectly subsidized by government so it survived.
I would move in the opposite direction. Our biggest problem is we have too much insurance and too much insurance leads to price inflation or price controls and utilization reviews that eventually go haywire. Of course I am worried about those that cannot buy or cannot afford insurance and I recognize any program has to deal with that group. I also don’t like Medicaid as a separate all or none program. I would consider using Medicaid as your by in solution but Medicaid would need to be substantially altered.
“working in healthcare finance for 35+yrs because insurance companies take premiums for years and when a large claim is filed, the subscriber was dropped.”
If you look back in time I think you can remember that insurance companies in the past did not drop the subscriber like they do today. As you know, the costs of illness are built into the policies so when a certain percentage of people have high costs they were already anticipated in the premiums. Government got too involved so all sorts of market failures have developed but there are remedies to insurers dropping people that develop illnesses. Insurance can be used, there could be increases in deductibles and the number of years one is insured for at a time, joint responsibility and other mechanisms.
As far as trying to figure out if the election is close, bad idea I think. My biggest fear is that Trump doesn’t win by a landslide for if the election is close I believe the democrats will increase the degree of cheating having nothing to lose and that the country will be brought to the brink counting boxes and boxes of fictitious votes created by the democrats who already are in part financed by the violent groups burning down and destroying many neighborhoods. These are not the same democrats that existed even a couple of years ago and certainly not the JFK Democrats. Today if JFK were running on the Republican ticket with the same ideology as he had he would be treated similarly in the fashion Trump is being treated.
At this point there are way too many variables to make much work in healthcare reimbursement. I only support the medicare buy-in since it does add to competition and competition has been good for those on Medicare. And my position is there should never be a mandate to buy any private company products, no matter what. If you have traditional medicare, you don’t get the dental coverage, eye glasses and other coverage that one gets with the advantage programs and the insurance companies are falling all over themselves to add benefits and add subscribers. Competition. The only way to truly control runaway healthcare cost is a compete government ownership where Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacist and other healthcare workers are paid by the government and the government controls cost from that perspective as well as other non salary cost. Also controlled is the multi million dollar employment packages given to mahogany row executives sitting in big offices hundreds of miles away for any patient or staff they have responsibility for. But I do not support that nor would the country, I mention it because the UK, along with Canada, are always used as the model for cost containment and the UK contains cost from the very beginning. They contain the cost of providing the care on input so the cost at the provider end is lower for the output.
Now your statement “As far as trying to figure out if the election is close, bad idea I think. My biggest fear is that Trump doesn’t win by a landslide for if the election is close I believe the democrats will increase the degree of cheating having nothing to lose and that the country will be brought to the brink counting boxes and boxes of fictitious votes created by the democrats who already are in part financed by the violent groups burning down and destroying many neighborhoods.”
Your fears are well founded. But it also goes for a Democrat win. If either candidate does not win by substantial margins and those are known late Nov 3rd or early Nov 4th, then we are in for some tumultuous times since 1/2 the country will be up in arms not believing the outcome. If the country goes to bed on November 3 thinking one person won and a week later they declare the other the winner. I fear the backlash that will cause. One thing for certain, whoever it is will be weakened from the very beginning. We survived that in 2000 because we were not as divided then as we have become since 2008.
And this country will be the laughing stock on elections, worse than the hanging chads in 2000.
“At this point there are way too many variables to make much work in healthcare reimbursement.”
Ron, I understand and appreciate your support of the medicare buy-in but for many reasons I believe it won’t work and cannot work. The best system is the free market, but I understand the failures the marketplace creates to some individuals. I understand why some want it interfered with and don’t necessarily disagree from the spot we are in today.
If one rejects the free market for those reasons then whatever plan is used should mimic the free market as closely as possible and not interfere with the free market that can exist.
You believe in government control. Government is not efficient so there are no savings there. Government funding always removes a large portion of the money so there is no savings there as well. Government is a terrible allocator of resources so the placement of resources by government both wastes money while placing the resources in the wrong place. I can go from there but I think my point is made.
This doesn’t mean that I don’t think government has a role. I think it does but that role is very basic. Advancing the role only creates winners and losers while costing more and giving less.
Your complaints are real but many of them are created by over involvement of government. I suppose you think health care is one of the most important things we have. Assuming you are correct and if health care is so important shouldn’t most of the discretion be left to the individual? I believe you would say that television sets are not nearly as important. How would things look if government was the provider of television sets? Most people would scream out because they want discretion as to size, quality etc. Do most people that want that type of choice and think television sets are more important than healthcare? Maybe they are right. I am not saying that is my opinion rather making a statement based on observation.
Health care relies on a three legged stool; cost, quality and access. Changing one causes a change in the other two.
Allen, I have given you a totally incorrect perspective on my beliefs in government involvement in anything. And since I am new to this site, let me offer a different perspective.
I do not believe the federal government has any abilities to do much of anything right other than a few things like the military, courts, interstate crime work (FBI) and foreign policy. And there are a few others, but anything specific in the constitution they do fairly well. Anything else is usually a mess.
As for healthcare, I would support what we had before Medicare, a totally private system. But the cluster *&^% of policies we have today can only be corrected by a massive change, either a total elimination of government in the system or a total take over by the government. Neither will happen and government will continue to make it worse as they try to make it better. Even a total government take over would not be good, but it would be far better than the mess now.
Government created this mess.
Medicare and Medicaid (MM) was created to pay cost (not charges) of MM patient treatments, so there was no “profit to buy new equpment)
Providers have 40%-60% of their revenues from MM.
New services each yr needed, expensive machines developed to provide services.
Providers say in the 70’s, why not, “MM pays for 50% of the cost because 50% of the services are MM, we will
make profit off the other 50%”
At the same time in the 70’s, unions were strong and paying for healthcare was a big benefit. They did
not focus on cost, they focused on members, so they paid whatever providers charged.
While this was going on, states developed certificate of need laws restricting high cost services and
facilities. Competition was restricted. Companies making high cost equipment had smaller
markets, increasing the cost of their equipment sometimes 100%-200% more than if the was
open markets.
Then in 80’s MM stopped paying cost, they paid flat rate payment for services. Gall Bladder surgery
$X.XX. Nothing more, nothing less. Same with all services
MM was now paying less than cost, so private payors had to cover losses. Cost shifting began. And doc’s impacted also. Some visits pay less than oil changes at Jiff Lube.
Managed care came into being. We were told at my hospital “Raise your rate 20%, give us a discount of 15% and we can sell our insurance to the employers in your city. We
need a gimmick to make it look like they are saving employers money”. With this, provider charges began to skyrocket and this went on for years. How long does it take
raising rates twice as much than is needed to make healthcare had for private pay patients to cover cost?
So we all see the results of a feel good system created in 1968 and its impact 50 years later. TYhere been a system where those in need had an entitlement that allowed them to buy insurance in the private market. Competition between providers would have allowed our country to have one of the lower costs systems and not the FUBAR we have today. I am not against healthcare coverage for those in need, but I am against it the way it is designed. That is why I think allowing individuals to buy into Medicare today at actuarial calculated rates would help correct many of the issues we have today because there would be competition. It’s not the perfect fix, but a damn much better system than the wet dream we have today.
“Anything else is usually a mess.”
Ron, you can say that again.
” But the cluster *&^% of policies we have today can only be corrected by a massive change,”
I’d have to review numbers but my guess is that a private system would cost 30-50% less without sacrificing quality. I don’t know what you mean by massive so I won’t object to your terms. The problem in my mind is not converting the system but the politics involved. I would guess that today with tax deductions, government subsidies etc., government controls well over 50% of today’s health care.
In a conversion to private healthcare Medicaid could be upgraded and used as a graduated buy-in though one has to make sure the incentives and design would lead all of the able bodied to private insurance.
Medicare didn’t have to exist in its present form. Other proposals existed at the time to help senior citizens that needed help. At the time of its enactment the entire population was buying more and more insurance privately (Including employer sponsored insurance) and that included the senior citizen.
Look at the astronomical premiums paid today, totally unnecessary. The winners are the healthcare corporations that have gotten fat, the lawyers that can sue anyone involved in healthcare and the politicians. Do you think that we would see this mess if there was transparency where payment was directed by the individual patient?
I can argue with you a bit about Medicare rates. It both pays too much and too little. It creates costs that need not exist. It has caused physicians to lose their intellectual honesty. I won’t even begin to say what it has done to the hospital systems and every other entity that lives off of Medicare. A lot of healthcare has become a sham and the system is being gamed. The gamers are much more agile than our beast of a government.
CON is a bad joke.
Medicare has changed its methodology over and over but we all have seen the results, the hole gets deeper. I won’t go into detail on all the troubling items you mention but the problems that developed with every twist and turn Medicare makes demonstrates why expanding Medicare would only dig a deeper hole.
“Now your statement “As far as trying to figure out if the election is close, bad idea I think. …””
Ron, you are right. Essentially anything but a decisive win by the President will lead to big problems. The democrats have shown what they are capable of with rioting in the streets. They are revolutionaries of a Marxist nature. Think of Rousseau and the French Revolution.
Ron, I should have added that is why it is essential for Trump voters to vote even if Trump is winning big. The left has not accepted the Trump Presidency as valid after almost 4 years. Far worse is in the future if he doesn’t win big.
I think he will win and I hope the House and Senate provide him with the ability to do what he came to do, provide good government. In great part I will judge his performance on how he carries forth the policies he has already enacted and how he secures America from the violent left that has destroyed the democrat party. He needs to make sure one vote one citizen. He needs to end the monopoly of social media by the present companies that are poisoning minds even outside of the political sphere. He needs to help Americans learn again to love freedom and to support the Constitution. I am not looking for perfection only a country where the rule of law exists.
I would put Obama in with James Buchanan who sabotaged and weakened the country just before the Civil War.
Jonathan: There is ample evidence to back up Fox reporter Jennifer Griffin’s reporting about Trump’s claim that Vietnam veterans are “losers” and “suckers”. Trump has long disparaged John McCain and refused to attend his funeral. Unfortunately for Trump Griffin’s reporting comes at a bad time. Trump is still behind in the polls and desperately needs the votes of veterans and current military personnel. So trying to back peddle on his previous comments about veterans calling for Fox to fire Griffin is certainly “outrageous” but not unexpected. When Trump gets bad news he always tries to fire the messenger.
Trump is so desperate for votes he is now pushing his “law and order”agenda to try to convince voters he is the only person standing between them and chaos from the continuing protests around the country over the police killings of black men. He blames Antifa for all the violence and is trying to tie Joe Biden to them. In an interview on Fox News on 9/1 Trump made the bizarre claim that Biden is controlled by people in the “dark shadows”. Trump went even further: “We had somebody get on a plane from a certain city. This weekend…and in the plane, it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms, with gear and this and that”. When asked by the Fox host to explain “this and that” and to substantiate his claim Trump said: “It’s under investigation”. Now as you probably know your good friend AG William Barr follows Trump’s tweets and Fox interviews very closely. That’s how he gets his instructions. Anyway, the following day Barr was interviewed on CNN and repeated Trump’s bizarre claim. The Attorney General said: “They [Antifa] are flying around the country. We know people who are flying around the country…We see some of the purchases they are making before the riots of weapons to use in these riots”. I don’t know what is more bizarre–Trump’s original claim or Barr’s repetition! Law enforcement, intelligence and Congressional officials were unable to confirm Trump and Barr’s allegations . To show just how much of a loyal toady he is Barr also repeated Trump’s false claim that the November election will result in massive mail-in voting fraud.
Now as a loyal supporter of William Barr you would think you might begin to question your years of support after these latest incidents involving unfounded conspiracy theories. Do you still think Barr has demonstrated his “independence” as head of the DOJ?
There is a report today that Fox News Polls are over sampling Democrats by at least 5% in 3 battleground states.
Turley: “As noted in my column, a long list of officials and former officials, including the staunchly anti-Trump former National Security Adviser John Bolton, have denied the story on the comment regarding the World War I fallen.”
That’s false. Bolton didn’t “deny” it. Here’s some of what Bolton actually said:
“‘These comments are despicable. If he made them, they are despicable,’ Bolton said in a Bloomberg Radio interview on Friday. … Bolton, who published a book earlier this year that was heavily critical of his former boss, said the alleged remarks sounded accurate. ‘I have not heard anybody say, ‘Oh, that doesn’t sound like the Donald Trump I know,’’ Bolton said in the interview. Bolton said the remarks may have stemmed from Trump’s skepticism of U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. ‘He was prone to say from time to time: ‘What did they get out of it? What was the worth of the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan?’’ Bolton said. ‘That is a kind of insensitivity that Trump does have, there’s no doubt about it.’ Bolton was on the 2018 trip to Paris with Trump but said he didn’t hear the president disparage the dead Marines himself. ‘I didn’t hear him say those things,’ he said, adding later he probably would have included the remarks in his book if he had. ‘Now, did he say those things to other people later in the day? It’s certainly possible.’”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate
Turley is also silent about Griffin’s confirmation that Trump could have gone to the Aisne-Marne by motorcade, just as Gen. Kelly and other world leaders did, and that he didn’t go because he didn’t want to go. He insults the military, dismisses TBIs as “headaches,” pardoned a war criminal, mistreated Lt. Col. Vindman and his brother, refuses to confront Putin about Russian bounties on our troops, … Trump is no patriot.
I’ve yet to hear anyone speaking on Trump’s behalf explain why he didn’t go by motorcade. Has anyone done that?
Several people have said why POTUS did not go by motorcade. You just are not reading their answers.
Go ahead and quote or link to their statements. I’d be happy to read it. Let’s see who said it and what they said.
I know that there were excuses at the time like:
“While President Trump now says the Secret Service was behind the decision not to make a more than two-hour drive to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery and Memorial, press secretary Sarah Sanders said Sunday that the president did not want to do the drive because of the disruption it would have caused to the people of Paris.” (ABC News)
Yeah, I definitely believe the changing stories, and I definitely believe that Trump puts others’ well-being ahead of his own desires, especially when plenty of others went by motorcade. /s
All you need to know about this kerfuffle is that Goldberg has said on the record that his sources don’t want to come forward because they are afraid of receiving angry tweets. Got that? Angry tweets. Oooooohh the humanity!!!!
The story is based on something that allegedly happened two years ago and surfaces 60 days before an election.
Anyone who doesn’t understand what is going on here is as dumb as a box of rocks.
MoFo, this is the best the left can do. They have Biden without any platform to use against Trump except to say orange man bad. They know Trump is the best candidate, but they want power for themselves and if Biden gets elected the office of President will be empty and they will have more power than ever expected.
I too, have an interest in military history. I too, have written articles (and books) about the military. I also have something Turley and most of the commenters on this blog don’t – a bunch of military decorations hanging on the wall of my study that some might say make me a “hero.” I’m not. My dad also had a bunch of decorations, some of the same ones in fact, and he never claimed to be a hero although he flew 30 missions over Germany and Occupied Europe in 1944. I don’t know what Trump said and don’t care. Since we are in the middle of an election, I assume this is something from Democrats to draw attention from the incompetency of Joe Biden. Personally, I doubt that Trump made such a comment. If he had, the whole world would have known about it long ago. As for his original comment about John McCain, he was referring to McCain having surrendered to the North Vietnamese. As it turns out, Arizona has a true military hero who REFUSED to surrender even though he was surrounded by German soldiers – who honored him as a hero after they killed him. His name was Frank Luke. I used to think McCain was really a hero but then I realized that his actions while in the hands of the North Vietnamese were reprehensible. He made propaganda broadcasts. It is well-known that the injuries his supporters attributed to torture were suffered during ejection from his crippled fighter. He was on crutches when he met President Nixon because he was recovering from surgery. The Navy considered him a mediocre officer and sidetracked him and never put him in command of an operational unit (he commanded a training unit in Florida.) Yes, he got a Silver Star but so did most of the other former POWs. As for veterans being “losers,” the sad fact is that many are. Military service does not make one a hero and the main requirement for military service is passing qualification tests. There is an old saying in the military that NCO stands for “no chance outside” which, unfortunately, is true in many cases. Instead of flat salaries, the military offers inducements to married men in order to keep them in service. Belleau Wood is hailed by the Marine Corps, but the Marine Corps is famous for hailing a lot of things. It is a fact that the United States Army’s Eight Air Force alone lost more men in World War II than the entire Marine Corps lost. Patton said in his memoir something to the effect that Marines are good at dying for the country but he wanted his men to kill for the country. My grandfather was a World War I veteran who fought with the 82nd Division in the Ardennes. Belleau Wood is most famous because it was the only major battle in which Marines fought in World War I. https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyUSMC-aChronology.htm
sem writes:
“As for his original comment about John McCain, he was referring to McCain having surrendered to the North Vietnamese. ”
sem, you’re a miserable “military historian”. If you think being shot out of the sky and landing in a lake in Hanoi is “surrendering” you suck at more things than history.
True up to a point, but by taping a video of him denouncing the United States he broke the law and came very near to treason. If his father were not an admiral he would have gone to Leavenworth.
“I don’t know what Trump said and don’t care.”
Do you care about other things Trump says, like calling TBIs “headaches”?
Do you care what Trump *does*?
For ex., do you care that he was too lazy to take a motorcade — like other world leaders and Generals Kelly and Dunford — and join them at Aisne-Marne? Do you care that he pardoned a war criminal? What kind of message does that send about committing war crimes?
This girl is ignorant to the core. She doesn’t deal with the facts on the ground. General Kelly could go without causing too much havoc.
In the past I’ve been caught in my car for over an hour because the Presidential motorcade was going to pass and all areas close were closed down even the major roads. However, that was not the only set of roads closed down because at the time they were using more than one route. I am sure the People of Paris would have been very happy to have the entire city closed down for the likes of Needs to be Committed but I am sure they would have gladly given her a needed bed in one of their psychiatric hospitals.
Thank you for posting this perspective. I find the “outrage” about these comments outrageous coming from people who, themselves, treated Vietnam veterans despicably – including my brother, cousins and uncles. Not to mention engaging in treasonous activities (yes, Hanoi Jane, I’m talking about you) and fleeing the country to avoid the draft when they couldn’t come up with a legitimate exemption. I served during the Clinton and Obama Administrations and I know first-hand what it was like to do so under Presidents whose actions demonstrated their contempt of the military.
Semc.. Great account. Thank you for posting it.
Just a US president calling for a journalist to be fired. Nothing to see here.
Journalist with no Journalistic Standards it would appear.
Anonymous sources…..just believe “Me”….gossip!
“Even though he bashes anonymous sources, Trump uses them himself”
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bashes-anonymous-sources-trump/story?id=45715113
Oliver Darcy: “Just a reminder that the White House continues to hold sanctioned briefings with reporters in which officials do not allow reporters to quote them on record. This wouldn’t be a big deal, but Trump has repeatedly said not to trust information attributed to unnamed officials.”
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1275184577892552708 [includes image of the WH providing info without allowing a named source]
If you don’t like anonymous sources, you should condemn them when the Trump Admin. uses them too.