The Department of Justice (DOJ) moved yesterday to take over the representation in the defamation suit brought by author E. Jean Carroll, who has accused President Donald Trump of raping her. I strongly disagree with the use of the Justice Department in such circumstances. However, the court may have little choice to grant the motion. This is a case where the legal answer is not the right answer.
The brief motion filed with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York relies on the Federal Tort Claims Act to seek to take over the litigation. It is based on attenuated logic that, while the alleged rape occurred 30 years ago, Trump’s denial (which is the basis for the defamation claim” occurred while he was president. As a result, the Justice Department is claiming that the comment was made as part of his official duties and thus it should be defended by the Justice Department, and not private counsel.
In my view, the framing of the comment as an official act is wrong and this move undermines the integrity of the Justice Department. Barr defended the decision. There is case law supporting the position. It has been used by other presidents. I strongly disagree with the request, which presumably came from the White House. That is where the primary blame should fall. From the first year of the Administration, I have been critical of the President’s blurring the lines between his private and official legal cases. This has been a long pending lawsuit handled by private counsel. It should have remained so. Indeed, Trump has the advantage in the litigation, as discussed below.
Barr could reasonably view this as a nondiscretionary act on his part once the request is made, particularly given past invocations during the Bush and Obama Administrations. However, I would argue that there is discretion here. The issue is the meaning of “while acting within the scope of his office or employment.” The case law has added a broad interpretation to the mandatory language of the Act. This decision is consistent with that case law. I believe that the Act should be amended to exclude clearly personal matters like this one.
Nevertheless, the correct decision under the law would be to grant this ill-conceived motion. The reason is the Westfall Act, 28 U.S.C. § 2679(b)(1), which states:
“(2) Upon certification by the Attorney General that the defendant employee was acting within the scope of his office or employment at the time of the incident out of which the claim arose, any civil action or proceeding commenced upon such claim in a State court shall be removed without bond at any time before trial by the Attorney General to the district court of the United States for the district and division embracing the place in which the action or proceeding is pending. Such action or proceeding shall be deemed to be an action or proceeding brought against the United States under the provisions of this title and all references thereto, and the United States shall be substituted as the party defendant. This certification of the Attorney General shall conclusively establish scope of office or employment for purposes of removal.”
I do not see the room for judicial discretion in this “shall” provision. It was written to give entire discretion to the Justice Department in certifying such cases.
There is an irony here for critics however in opposing this motion. For years, critics have argued in federal court that tweets and comments by the President in areas like immigration should be treated as official statements. Indeed, the Ninth Circuit adopted such an approach in prior litigation.
However, this is clearly a personal matter and not a comment on any government policy or action. It should not be a matter for the Justice Department. None of this gives credence to the underlying claim. This would be a very difficult case to prove. Carrol is essentially suing over what is called an “exculpatory no” statement in criminal law. Trump had every right to deny the underlying rape, but he did so as an individual, not as the president.
141 thoughts on “The White House Is Wrong In Seeking To Have DOJ Take Over The Defamation Case Against Trump . . . But A Court Will Have To Grant It [Updated]”
Jonathan: I agree. Barr should not intervene in E. Jean Carroll’s defamation suit against Trump. It’s hard to argue, with a straight face, that Trump was “acting within the scope of his office” when he allegedly lied about raping Carroll back in the 1990s. Stuart Gerson, who led the DOJ’s Civil Division under Bush No. 1 has said: “The president gets sued all the time and is defended by the government but those are for lawsuits that have to do with actions in his official capacity as president. This isn’t anything like that”.
What you don’t mention is the timing of Barr’s intervention. Barr’s decision to invoke the Westfall Act comes just 2 months before the election and just after a state court ruled Carroll’s suit could proceed. This would require Trump to sit for a deposition and provide a DNA sample. That would be very embarrassing for Trump. So Trump did what he always does–he called upon AG Barr to intervene to slow down the legal process by removing the case to federal court. If Barr really was truly an independent AG and used his discretion not to intervene we all know the consequences. Trump would have been on the phone in a nano second: “Bill, I thought you worked for me. I thought you were my Roy Cohn!” So Barr chose to act as Trump’s personal attorney not the Attorney General who is supposed to work for all the people. That’s the part you chose to ignore.
Trump as president and Trump as a private individual should be distinct.
Trump’s tweets (or any other person in government) should not be treated as official. The allegations against him as a person and his denials as a person are individual not presidential.
This should not be about Trump, or more accurately the personal actions of presidents are not official.
That said your claims regarding the political nature of this are strained.
Trump is in an excellent legal position on this, There was no evidence taken at the time – there is not going to be DNA.
Trump might end up being deposed – but probably not for years.
Frankly the case should die. It is ridiculous to claim that you have been defamed by a person denying they committed a crime that you never alleged at the time.
It was wrong before the last election for Comey NOT to indict Hillary (which would have convicted Obama).
It is wrong before this election for John “Dudley Do-right” Durham to NOT indict Obama and all the co-conspirators in the Obama Coup D’etat in America.
Objectivity, wherefore art thou?
Honor, wherefore art thou?
“Car 54, Where Are You?”
John Durham, where are you?
“According to NBC News transcript, asked by Pete Williams, NBC if “it’s unlikely there’ll be further criminal charges?” Attorney General Barr said, “No, I wouldn’t say that at all, no.”
PETE WILLIAMS: Let me ask you finally about the Durham report.” Is John Durham nearing the end of his investigation?
WILLIAM BARR: I’m not gonna characterize exactly where he is. I’ll just leave it at that–
WILLIAMS: Okay, would you say– it’s unlikely that there’ll be further criminal charges?
BARR: No, I wouldn’t say that at all, no.
WILLIAMS: So there could be.
BARR: Yeah, there could be.
WILLIAMS: Will we hear anything about the Durham report before the election?
BARR: Yeah, I’m not gonna get into that either.
CONTEXT: former FBI lawyer Clinesmith recently pleaded guilty.” @CBS_Herridge
Indictments are coming. Who and how many?
Bob Woodward Reveals Why He Didn’t Report Trump’s Virus Denial Sooner
Woodward said his aim was to provide a fuller context than could occur in a news story: “I knew I could tell the second draft of history, and I knew I could tell it before the election.” (Former Washington Post publisher Phil Graham famously called journalism “the first rough draft of history.”)
What’s more, he said, there were at least two problems with what he heard from Trump in February that kept him from putting it in the newspaper at the time:
First, he didn’t know what the source of Trump’s information was. It wasn’t until months later — in May — that Woodward learned it came from a high-level intelligence briefing in January that was also described in Wednesday’s reporting about the book.
In February, what Trump told Woodward seemed hard to make sense of, the author told me — back then, Woodward said, there was no panic over the virus; even toward the final days of that month, Anthony S. Fauci was publicly assuring Americans there was no need to change their daily habits.
Second, Woodward said, “the biggest problem I had, which is always a problem with Trump, is I didn’t know if it was true.”
Trump spoke with Woodward on more than a dozen occasions, and in some cases, “he started calling me at night.” It took months, Woodward told me, to do the reporting that put it all in context, which is what he believes his mission as an author is: “My job is to understand it, and to hold him accountable, and to hold myself accountable.” He added: “I did the best I could” toward those ends.
But why not then write such a story later in the spring, once it was clear that the virus was extraordinarily destructive and that Trump’s early downplaying had almost certainly cost lives?
Again, Woodward said he believes his highest purpose isn’t to write daily stories but to give his readers the big picture — one that may have a greater effect, especially with a consequential election looming.
Woodward’s effort, he said, was to deliver in book form “the best obtainable version of the truth,” not to rush individual revelations into publication.
Edited from: “Should Bob Woodward Have Reported Trump’s Virus Revelations Sooner?”
This evening’s Washington Post
Notable Passage Above:
Trump spoke with Woodward on more than a dozen occasions, and in some cases, “he started calling me at night.”
Why didn’t Jack Cashill reveal Obama’s secret sooner?
“Obama, then about 21, had written to McNear (teenage girlfriend) that he viewed gay sex as ‘an attempt to remove oneself from the present, a refusal perhaps to perpetuate the endless farce of earthly life.’
Then came the money quote: ‘You see, I make love to men daily, but in the imagination. My mind is androgynous to a great extent and I hope to make it more so.'”
Woodward is just trying to generate a Watergate Redux….and has numerous times since his Hay Day during the Watergate thing.
You notice he does not go after Obama or any Democrat ever.
He is irrelevant and has been for decades….and is just trying to obtain some air time for himself so he can continue to sell books…..that should be sold as Fiction.
Turley…..split your personal opinion from your “Legal” opinion a bit more clearly.
As you state….Case Law supports the DOJ decision…..full stop….period.
As you then state….when it is a purely private matter the DOJ should not be Defense Counsel for the President.
Question you did not address…..is the Rape Complaint in question, based upon a thirty year old alleged event, personal…..or a result of the accused now being President.
I submit….if the complaint had been filed thirty years ago….immediately or shortly after the alleged incident it would make it a personal issue but if the complaint was filed only after the accused had become President…..then the DOJ certainly is right to take on the case in defense of the President.
The degree of discipleships of you Trump Chumps is amazing. Reality just doesn’t faze you. Here’s a revelation for you: TRUMP DOES NOT DENY he said those things, so why are you calling Woodward a liar? Trump was recorded, and you can compare what he told Woodward with what he said publicly at the time. People died because they misjudged the risk to their personal health. This is Trump’s fault.
Case law does NOT support the DOJ defending an accused rapist who slanders his accuser. The DOJ has never sided with an accused rapist who defames his accuser in its entire history. Barr is wrong. He is a syncophant for Trump and should be removed from office for dereliction of duty. Period. Full stop.
Carroll’s Complaint was for defamation–not rape.
+2, one for each point Natasha
Is someone calling Woodward a liar ?
All I hear is a giant sigh as we listen to the left once again try to make something out of nothing.
You are massively fixated on what Trump SAYS. As if it matters.
Are you angry with your parents because they told you not to be affraid and to go to sleep, and now as an adult you realize the world can be a dangerous place and your parents can not promise that you will not die in an accident tomorow, or get Covid ?
Faucci lied about masks to protect the supply to first responders – and later admitted as much.
I am not angry with him for that.
He and Birx and myriads of “experts” provide us the same advice they give for the flu – which does not work for the flu – but somehow re-assures many of us.
This is not the flu – it is 2-3 times as contagious. It is barely slowed down by these measures.
Are you going to hold experts – who either know or should have known better accountable ?
So what ?
What is amazing is that those on the left think this is a big deal.
We have had our supposed health experts lying to us about C19 and C19 related things since the beginning – to the extent that they are just not trustworthy.
Does anyone honestly know whether and what value masks have ? There are no real world studies – only very limited laboratory tests.
And what little we have is for the Flu which has a spread rate between 1/2 and 1/3 of C19.
And yet we have been told masks don’t work and then that they are critical
Further we have heard these experts testify that the reasons for what they say often have nothing to do with the truth.
They are either speaking to protect a limited supply to first responders
or they are saying things so that people FEEL live there is something they can do.
The question is Why Trump told Woodward. The information came from a national security briefing.
I do not have a problem with Trump or any other president downplaying risks to avoid panic.
The most important issue regarding C19 which the left still misses, is did Trump do or fail to do something within his power that would have significantly altered the outcome.
And the answer is NO.
Todate there is NO government action taken anywhere in the world that has proven effective.
C19 does not give a $h!t about policies.
Global variations are driven by an assortment of demographic differences, not policy differences. 3
Putting aside John’s usual crackpot libertarian based ideas (which his orthodoxy demands), his post is irrelevant to the now proven fact that Trump fully knew and accepted the real threat from the Covid virus but misrepresented that information to the public. We have the tapes.
Few of my arguments are “libertarian”.
It is not necescary – facts are sufficient.
As to this “Trump knew” nonsense – so what ?
WE ALL KNEW the same things.
What secret knowledge did Trump have at the time the rest of us did not ?
What secret knowledge has he ever had about C19 ?’
You seem to desparately want a president who is your master – your parent, who directs your life, who protects you from everything.
Grow up – we live in the real world.
You are responsible for your own life.
That is unavoidable.
On a few occasions I have underestimated the risk of C19 – but even so it STILL falls orders of magnitude short of the doomsday predictions of “experts”
There were supposed to be 4M deaths in the US according to experts at the time Trump talked to Woodward. There were supposed to be 2.2M deaths in the UK.
There are not 1M deaths in the entire planet.
I do not have a problem with what Trump told Woodward. I do not have a problem with what Woodward wrote.
I have a problem with you because you think this is significant.
It is not like Trump enacted policies that killed people – that would be Cuomo, and Wolf, and Murphy and numerous other blue governors.
John is apparently fine with Trump lying about a serious threat which has now cost us close to 200k lives and counting and has us with 4% of the world’s population and 25%+ of it’s cases and deaths. His deception and inaction is criminal dereliction of duty and beyond that a complete failure of policy and leadership. You cannot be more wrong than to say repeatedly the virus would be over in a few days on it’s own and now that we should have vaccine before the election.
All OK with John.
BTB. So I want to ask if I may. Just what would you have done? We saw the panic that drove people to drink fish tank chemical and other actions costing their life.
We saw a Governor issue regulations that cost thousands of lives transferring covid positive patients into nursing homes.
We saw CA lock down for months and now 6 months later they lead the country in cases.
We see CA, TX and FL with far more cases, but many fewer deaths than NY.
This country is not like South Korea.The 4th amendment bans contact cell phone tracking by the government.
This country is not like New Zealand where they basically isolated people to their hometown city limits.
Doing any research will show the darling if the left, Fauci, was spreading false data in January and February.
Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown and told people to come out, the risk was low.
When liberals begin to understand we have 50% of the people who will follow government dictates and 50% without, unless there are huge penalties and when liberals actually realize a President really has limited domestic powers, then maybe liberals will begin looking at who really is to blame. Just look to face mask. Mandated most places, still less than 50% wear them and about 10% wear them wrong!
A virus is going to spread!!! What one does not do is send the virus into nursing homes where the patients are already compromized. When you begin criticising governors for not protecting compromised patients, then, and only then, does your criticism if Trump have credibility.
Ron, what should have been done is obvious and most assuredly would have been done with any other president in recent memory:
1. The President/Administration should have prepared public guidelines for citizens on safe behavior. They did this but then failed to widely and clearly disseminate these guidelines and the Trump actively sabotaged them. Dissemination would have included public service announcements repeated ad nauseum on TV, radio, the internet, and billboards. The President should have emphasized these guidelines vocally and by example. Instead he has repeatedly mocked and disparaged the guidelines, including encouraging citizens to ignore and protest states attempts to implement them. The result is a completely mixed message where maybe 1/3 of citizens think the guidelines are wrong and politically motivated. That is crazy BS and has resulted in us having 1/4 of the world’s cases and deaths with 4% of it’s population,
2. The President should have used his authority to implement the Production Act as to produce PPEs and testing supplies as necessary and his authority under emergency powers to distribute them among states and localities based on need,. not highest bidder. We got the latter as attested to by even GOP governors and it was the wild west.
3. As we traditionally have done, we should have joined with other countries and the world community and taken a leadership role in fighting what is an international problem. We are the world’s richest country and we have the most advanced medical and research facilities anywhere. Instead trump is fueling battles and vendettas again, including defunding the WHO in an international pandemic.
4. Specifically, health care should have been beefed up, not cut as Trump has attempted to do and aid to states should be prioritized not made part of a blue/red battle as Trump and the GOP have attempted to do.
Two main points in planning:
Whatever we spend now – or earlier – will almost certainly be less than the losses incurred from a wrecked economy and the resultant need to rebuild it.
The choice was never between being safe and opening the economy. You can’t do the latter effectively without 1st doing the former. Polling has shown that most people are more guided by fear than rulings on opening or closing, so if you want businesses to have customers, you have to have a common sense and accepted plan for them to act and feel safe when about. Stupid fights about masks is exactly the wrong way to achieve that and get to a better functioning economy.
BTB, seems like once again we live in a different time warp. You live in the MSNBC/CNN timewarp, I live in this timewarp I have provided.
Please take the time, an hour maybe, t read start to finish. Excellent, non politial timeline. Please note thesebdates and commentscas you review.
1/26 Fauci statement
1/28 Klein (Bidens manager)
1/29 Task Force
1/29 CDC c19 guidelines
1/31 Biden (Travel comment)
2/7 Med Supplies TO China
What I experienced during this period was a government that was completely engrossed in impeachment, democrats taking any position 180’degrees from the president, communication that was informing people that were not spending all their time reading, talking or commenting on social media about impeachment while I was not worried about impeachment and was following C19 info.
I also see government red tape causing hundred, if not thousands of deaths since it took almost 2 months from when China ID’ed Remdisavir as a potential therapy until Doctors could use in limited cases ( those where patients were within hours of dieing) here. There should be no reason to without therapies like this when compromised patients could benefit with early treatment.
So reading this timeline just reminds me of things I read back in Jan-March. This was my time warp. I suspect you were in the impeachment time warp.
Take a look. I know it wont change your mind, but it is a good review
There was an opportunity very early on to stop this completely in Wuhan with at most a few thousand cases had China acted – SARS and MERS were both stopped that way – both are more deadly and probably more contagious than Covid-19.
In fact they are closely related to Covid19.
Further had China limited travel quickly or been forthright with the rest of the world – this could have been stopped in Wuhan.
I do have several problems with your early timelines.
1). There is a growing body of evidence that the Virus first infected humans between Mid Nov, and early September.
It is less than 50/50 at this point that it came from the wet markets.
2). This likely arrived int he US in very early January. The first likely US Covid 19 death is 1/5/2020. That likely places that infection in mid December.
3). Everything I have heard is that China prohibitted travel in china from Hubei very early – but allowed international travel.
Your source says China allowed travel from Hubei to other parts of China.
To this day China has very effectively kept C19 out of China – aside from Hubei and being reintroduced by People coming back to China from Russia. I do not beleive there has been significant C19 anywhere in China except Hubei and the China/Russia border.
Ron, your timeline is irrelevant. There is no excuse for Trump to not do what any decent president would have done and I have laid that out above as you requested.
Not my timeline! This took much more time and was done by “professional” journalists as it is clearly non political!
There are myriads of reasons for Trump not to have done as you demand.
1). It is unconstitutional.
2). It is ineffective.
3). Feelings are not a substitute for facts.
4). Central planning does not work. Not even to fight a highly contagious respiratory virus.
Ron, what should have been done is obvious and most assuredly would have been done with any other president in recent memory:
“1. The President/Administration should have prepared public guidelines for citizens on safe behavior.”
And you KNOW what “safe behaviour” is ? The fact is the expects don’t – as mentioned repeatedly we do not know the effectiveness of masks in public. We have gone back and forth repeatedly on the spread of C19 via surfaces.
Further different people have different risk levels – for those under 40 this is an order of magnitude less dangerous than the flu.
It is self evident that the one thing NO COUNTRY did which ALL SHOULD HAVE is focuse near exclusively on protecting the VULNERABLE.
It would have been far simpler both legally and practically to focus services and benefits for those at the greatest risk – ask the elderly and sickly to stay home, provide them with food and other services by delivery. For those who working – allow them to work from home or to voluntarily go on unemployment.
Had we focused on those that C19 is likely to kill or severely harm, we could have produced far better results with far less resources.
One of the stupidest things we have done is shutting down colleges. What better place to have C19 go through students than a college – away from their older parents. where we can focus on protecting older professors.
Next behind that is school students. Most of their parents are younger and the overall risk is near non-existance.
If some teachers are at significant risk – allow them to voluntarily furlough.
You can not stop a virus with an R0 of 2.4-3.8 – but you CAN MOSTLY keep it away from those it is likely to kill – especially when there is so pronounced a pattern to those who it kills.
But none of this was done by ANY country.
So you want to rant about Trump’s poor leadership when NO ONE got it right or even close.
Conversely – by your terms Coumo showed good leadership – and has by far the highest death rates.
ITs that what you would have prefered – for Trump to be more like Cuomo ?
“They did this but then failed to widely and clearly disseminate these guidelines and the Trump actively sabotaged them.”
Ih cut the $h!t – everyone in this country has heard the same advice over and over since March – it you do not know what recomendations are you are deaf and blind.
“Dissemination would have included public service announcements repeated ad nauseum on TV, radio, the internet, and billboards.”
Because what – people who have heard it all 1000 times will finally be persuaded on the 1001st time ?
Maybe you shoyuld have actually done something to get some REAL SCIENCE behind those recomendation.
How about some real world studies on the effectiveness of masks ?
Further – if you converted the entire media into an amplifier for your nonsense – do you honestly think it would have changed compliance ?
Many of the rules you made were ludicrously stupid. You can buy drywall, but not paint. You can shelter in place at home – but not in your vacation cabin. You can protest, but not go to church. Big box stores can open, but not mom and pops.
Buy making stupid rules – you destroyed public confidence that you knew what you were talking about.
And there there is the stupid way you dealt with children, young adults and the healthy.
You have imposed draconian restraints on people for whom this is MUCH LESS of a big deal than the flu.
They know that and you are just not going to get them to care.
“The President should have emphasized these guidelines vocally and by example. Instead he has repeatedly mocked and disparaged the guidelines, including encouraging citizens to ignore and protest states attempts to implement them. ”
“The result is a completely mixed message where maybe 1/3 of citizens think the guidelines are wrong and politically motivated.”
Of course they do. Are they politically motivated – in many instances yes., In nearly all instances they reflect fundimentally different political values.
Regardless, in the end you are left explaining why blue states had FAR worse outcomes than red ones.
Why lockdown states had more deaths per capita than non-lockdown ones ?
If your guidelines were not politicallly motivated then at the least they were highly ineffective.
“That is crazy BS and has resulted in us having 1/4 of the world’s cases and deaths with 4% of it’s population,”
This phony data has been addressed over and over and over again.
Do you think compliance with guidelines in india and bangeledesh is higher than the US ?
Do you think their (non existant) healthcare systems responded better ?
Case numbers are near meaningless for something we KNOW we are detecting less than 1:20 cases.
And the standards for measuring deaths are not universal and often highly political.
Further it is near certain the US will ultimately substantially downward revise its death toll quietly – just as we do with the flu.
Because we do not attribute death to the flu or cold or pneumonia when the person was already terminally ill.
‘The President should have used his authority to implement the Production Act as to produce PPEs and testing supplies as necessary and his authority under emergency powers to distribute them among states and localities based on need,. not highest bidder. We got the latter as attested to by even GOP governors and it was the wild west.”
1) He did
2) that was mostly ineffective because the idea is STUPID.
3) Nearly overnight the US became the worlds primary supplier of PPE – free markets not government did that.
You can buy masks in myriads of forms, decorative masks, personalized masks, there are even masks for people who do not beleive in masks but do not want arrested – faux masks.
Markets do that – not government.
4). There is no locality that did not have the resources that it needed – that is just a ludicrously stupid claim.
Even NYC – by far the worst hit – had 2-3 times the resources it needed.
No hospital anywhere in the country has had an actual shortage of anything – yes they projected shortages – but those never materialized.
Products flew off the shelves every day and were replaced every night – even in LA.
“3. As we traditionally have done, we should have joined with other countries and the world community and taken a leadership role in fighting what is an international problem.”
That is NOT what we have traditionally done – atleast not through government. That is what the LEFT traditionally trues to do.
“We are the world’s richest country and we have the most advanced medical and research facilities anywhere.”
Good to hear that – I will remind you of it the next time you want to piss over US healthcare.
“Instead trump is fueling battles and vendettas again, including defunding the WHO in an international pandemic.”
WHO is and has mostly always been a joke. No organization has failed worse regarding C19.
No organization has done a better job of proving how stupid an idea it is for countries to rely on international organizations for anything.
“4. Specifically, health care should have been beefed up, not cut as Trump has attempted to do and aid to states should be prioritized not made part of a blue/red battle as Trump and the GOP have attempted to do.”
Health care is NOT a government role – not federal, not state. There is little or no positive value to government contribution to healthcare.
Further our PRIVATE healthcare system did FINE. The field hospitals in Central park and Javitts center went unused, the regular hospitals in NYC never exceeded 50% of capacity.
In fact what government mandated was EXACTLY WRONG. We have spent much fo the past 6 months with large portions of our healthcare system shutdown – especially hospitals, so that resources could be devoted to C19 – and yet C19 has barely used 1/3 of our capacity.
And you want to ramp up even more C19 healthcare capacity – WHY ?
What needed to be done is to have hospital systems bifurcate – move the C19 Treatment to older hospitals, or closed hospitals, and keep the majority of hospitals open and doing their NORMAL functions – treating the terminally ill or people who if untreated for other health issues will eventually die.
It is likely we will have more than 200K extra cancer deaths in the long run – because people were delayed in getting treatment.
“Two main points in planning:
Whatever we spend now – or earlier – will almost certainly be less than the losses incurred from a wrecked economy and the resultant need to rebuild it.”
Totally false. The economic damage has been enormous. Using any of the actuarial measures of the value of a human life we have done exactly the wrong things.
“The choice was never between being safe and opening the economy.”
Correct – there was no choice – it was immoral to close the economy.
“You can’t do the latter effectively without 1st doing the former.”
And yet we ran WWI right in the middle of a global pandemic that was 20 times worse.
We ran Woodstock in the midst of a pandemic that was about the same as this.
C19 is an approx. once every 50 year event. It is uncommon, but not unheard of. most people will see something like it or worse twice in their lifetimes. We have NEVER done anything so idiotic as we did with C19, and hopefully we never will again.
The policies of the left – the flatten the curve nonsense. the shitdowns have been a colosal failure. A failure of the left.
Yes, Trump should be excoriated – for being complicit in your stupid nonsense.
“Polling has shown that most people are more guided by fear than rulings on opening or closing,”
And you think that is a good argument ?
Regardless, let parents make their own decisions. It is not the job of govenors or legislators, or presidents or school boards.
“so if you want businesses to have customers”
Again you think you control that. You do not.
Businesses in Sweden did far better than most of the world – they had to make adaptations – not to the dictats of government, but to the demands of customers – and that is ALWAYS how it should be.
“you have to have a common sense”
“Common sense” is by definition the sense of ordinary people – it is letting people make choices for themselves.
Common sense is NOT the edicts of experts.
“and accepted plan for them to act and feel safe when about.”
You have this fixation on central planning – it does not work – we have an entire century of blood and failure to demonstrate that.
but if you need a refresher – look at the mess you have made of C19.
You tanked the economy – for no purpose and no benefit – the Deaths per capita of Sweden are now below the US, below the EU, below most developed countries – and the disparity is increasing – because C19 is nearly burnt out in Sweden and yet it still troubles most of the west. Put simply your way FAILED – not just in blue states, not just in the US but everywhere in the world it was tried.
By the data that YOU trumpet – countries like Panama, Costa Rica, the Maldives, French Guiana did better that Itally, Spain, France, Belgium, Ireland, most of Europe.
“Stupid fights about masks is exactly the wrong way to achieve that and get to a better functioning economy.”
That is right – the best way to fight C19 and have the strongest economy is WITHOUT government involvement in either.
So you post a long diatribe offering frequently debunked nonsense.
There is almost no claim that you make that is meaningful or correct.
If as you claim – the US has done worse than most of the world – then Costa Rica has done better than most of the world.
Sweden has done better than the US or EU, and better than MOST but not all countries within the EU,
Sweden has done pretty much the opposite of your recomendations – and had a slightly better outcome than most developed countries.
In the US precisely those states that have done as you demand – have had the worst outcomes. And those that ignored you had the best outcomes.
There are explanations for that – ones that are NOT political. But they STILL obliterate your premises universally.
Your own data refutes your own claims.
Nor is this the first time this has been pointed out to you.
John Says, you post long diatribes offering frequently debunked nonsense and there is almost no claim that you make that is meaningful or correct. You are the pot calling the kettle black.
“John Says, you post long diatribes offering frequently debunked nonsense and there is almost no claim that you make that is meaningful or correct. You are the pot calling the kettle black.”
False, words have meaning. Debunked has meaning. Though much of what BTB has cited is not actually debunked, it is just oppinion substituted as fact.
Brennan center has had its head in the sand for decades regarding actual voter fraud.
We know as an example that LBJ won his senate seat as a result of massive voter fraud – likely more than 80000 votes.
Yet democrats want us to beleive that voter fraud has just gone away – despite little change in the processes and procedures.
The couple that took fish tank cleaner:
Did so BEFORE Trump’s remarks.
There are myriads of holes in the surviving womans story and it is strongly suspected this was murder.
Please link latest info. All I can find is Apr-May, which just says investigation on goin. By this time should be something more definitive.
I do not know more than that the women was suspected of killing her husband and there is an investigation.
Yes we should have heard more by now.
But I do not care much about the details of her attempted murder.
What matters most is this had nothing to do with Trump.
Trump had not even made his HCQ remark when the death took place.
Lots of people made mistakes. You noted some of them.
That is the nature of dealing with problems where the initial information is limited. ‘
outside of sending infected people to nursing homes and locking down the economy – I do not care if people made past mistakes.
Even know alot of what is known is not well dispersed, and allot is claimed to be known that is not.
We have limited laboratory data on Masks. Even that as good as it looks means they are probably not effective against a 2.4-3.8 R0 disease. And they are certainly not effective in general use.
Regardless there are no studies of masks in use in the general population.
We have been told conflicting information on the spread through surfaces. That is OK so long as you do not vest “experts” with ominpotence and treat their recomendations as biblically inerrent directives from god
You can not impliment the agenda of the left without massive enforcement – police.
The idea of defunding the police from the left is self destructive lunacy.
Many many states have mask mandates – many people are flaunting those.
Biden claims he would impose a national one – how does he plan on dealing with those who will not conform ?
Social Workers ?
Laws are enforces by “men with guns” – police.
It is the responsibility of those who make the laws not those who enforce them to take care what they make illegal lest they make criminals of all of us.
I would prefer that Presidents did not misrepresent threats – or anything – but they do so all the time.
I am far more concerned when Presidents say things that we rely on to our detriment, or do things that result in actual harm.
You did not rely on Trump’s remarks about C19 – you couldn’t rely on them – nor could you be harmed by them – why ?
Because you did not have available to you some choice that but for Trump’s remarks or actions you would have done differently.
All Trump did was keep you from panicking.
I would also ask in this context what is a lie ? Trump said C19 would be less bad than it was.
But he beleived as did all YOUR experts that it would be worse than it was. ‘
What he said was incorrect, what he beleived was incorrrect – as is typically the case when predicting the future.
Had Trump said something differently – would you have acted differently ?
“cost us close to 200k lives and counting”
About 3M people die every year. There is little we can do to change that.
No matter what the C19 outcome would have been the same.
“and has us with 4% of the world’s population and 25%+ of it’s cases and deaths.”
You buy that ? The US has the same deaths/capita as the EU.
Are you saying that Bangelesech and India which have high infection rates but purportedly low death rates have implimented better policies than the US ?
The deaths/capita are a function of demographics. PERIOD.
It does not take an expert to know that.
the fatality rate for those over 80 is incredibly high. For those under 40 incredibly low.
The age of the population alone is a near perfect correlation to the number of deaths. ‘
But the overall health is also important. Further C19 hates people with Disabetes.
There is no country with more than 1M people with higher rates of diabetes than the US.
You continue to repeat this nonsense over and over.
Either you are an idiot – or you know better.
“His deception and inaction is criminal dereliction of duty and beyond that a complete failure of policy and leadership.”
Again how so ?
What should Trump have done differently that demonstrably would have produced a different result ?
You are again selling this “feel my pain” nonsense.
There is nothing the Federal government could have done to change the outcome – most of us understand that.
What is disturbing is that those who shutdown the economy, who sent infected patients into nursing homes will have no price to pay when this is over.
YOU botched this – not Trump. And you continue to do so today.
You have foist on much of the contry policies that have done real harm – but shown no real benefit.
California locked down before the rest of the country and still remains locked down more than most of the country.
Yet they have had nearly the worst outcomes, with no end in sight.
If as you say Trump bothched things – why is it that the worst outcomes are in the blue states that took the strongest actions ?
What does it take before you grasp that most problems can not be solved by govenrment – and some problems can not be solved at all.
Ultimately we all die. That is life – get over it. We can not stop huricanes, we can not redirect them. We can not stop Viruses.
“You cannot be more wrong than to say repeatedly the virus would be over in a few days on it’s own”
Why not ? If instead of striving so hard to prevent anyone from getting infected, we put our efforts to preventing those at risk from being infected – we would have been through this months ago.
Sweden has been mostly through this since Late June – it is mid september.
“and now that we should have vaccine before the election.”
If we leave a vaccine up to the “experts”, they will wait until it is perfectly safe – and 50,000 people more will have died.
We should have had a vaccine months ago, and you and I should have been free to decide for ourselves whether we wanted to get it.
If we had a vaccine in April – but one that if given to the entire country would have killed 50,000 people – should we have used it ?
Or should we have waited 6 months and let C19 kill 200K people in order to reduce the vacine fatality rate to a hundred or so ?
What I did is small enough in impact to be irrelevant. What the country did was f..k up large scale – look at the numbers – and that was partly due to collective action by citizens influenced by Trump’s behavior and partly due to the medical community’s behavior, hampered by Trump’s ineffective reaction – leadership is not the proper word.
Trump tries to stoke panic everyday as it suits his personal goals and informed an country operating on sound information from it’s leaders and with confidence in them will not panic. Trump is incapable of that and on top of everything else dysfunctional about him, will be the main reason he takes well deserved early exit from the WH.
“What the country did was f..k up large scale – look at the numbers ”
I do – all the time. Belgium, Spain and the UK have done much worse than the US – and Spain and the UK are still in the midst of this more so than the US.
The US overall has done the same as the EU.
Sweden has done better than the US and EU and Sweden is very close to done with C19 the US and EU are not.
Sweden will continue to drop in rankings, while the rest of Europe will keep going above Sweden.
Within the US – those states that ignored your recomendations have done better than those states that followed them religiously.
” and that was partly due to collective action by citizens influenced by Trump’s behavior and partly due to the medical community’s behavior, hampered by Trump’s ineffective reaction – leadership is not the proper word.”
What does any of this nonsense mean.
I will agree that Trump was ineffective in dealing with C19 – as was Cuomo, and Whitmer and Newsome, and every other world leader.
The FACTS – which are increasingly obvious – and you are blind to – is that government has not and can not deal with C19.
But in some cases they can make it worse – as in NY.
The FACTS are that demographics dictates the global behavior of C19 – much as one would expect.
That population density, age, race, latitude, overall health, rates of specific diseases like diabetes, all dictate the C19 death rates.
“Trump tries to stoke panic everyday”
Trump is not selling C19 panic porn – YOU ARE.
Trump is not selling the anarchy of “Defund the police” – YOU ARE
Trump is not advocating for riots – YOU ARE.
Pretty much all of what you call “stoking panic” – is opposing YOUR efforts to stoke panic.
I am fully prepared to see Federal Troops sent to Portland and declare martial law there – until order is restored.
I am fully prepared to see Trump order the national guard anywhere than rioting is going on.
“as it suits his personal goals”
Trump is not the one advocating for Anarchy – YOU ARE.
“and informed an country operating on sound information from it’s leaders and with confidence in them will not panic.”
You are the one selling C19 panic porn.
“Trump is incapable of that and on top of everything else dysfunctional about him, will be the main reason he takes well deserved early exit from the WH.”
And yet the nation has done well under him, in myriads of different ways.
PS John. I again responded to your ignorant musings on NH voter fraud with facts. Maybe you might want to visit that post and correct your misstatements for the record and for your reputation for integrity.
“PS John. I again responded to your ignorant musings on NH voter fraud with facts”
And yet you have NOT.
You responded with crap that had nothing to do with the claim I made.
And you misrepresented my claim.
“Maybe you might want to visit that post”
I did, it was irrelevant.
It was also more of the BS like from the Brennan center that whatever we can not see does not exist.
“and correct your misstatements for the record and for your reputation for integrity.”
I have no problems with my reputation and integrity.
I would further note – it is likely that Trump will win in November – the hysteria and despiration on the left is the most compelling indication.
Regardless, As in 2016 – except on Steriods, I fully expect you and the entire left to be making lunatic claims of fraud and improper influence.
“At long last, have you no shame”.
BTB – no one beleives you or the left on voter Fraud.
You have blinders on – which you will conveniently take off when convenient.
Abrahms is still ranting that she would have won in GA but for voter supression – a claim that is mathematically impossible.
We had an election tossed in GA because of mail in ballot irregularities by someone collecting ballots for a republican – using methods that are unfortunately legal in nearly all blue states.
We already here the rumblingings of Democrats over claims of Fraud by Trump should he win.
I fully expect that you will be making the same claims of fraud that you currently claim are impossible When Trump wins.
The very same democrats who are attacking Trump for raising the possibility of Voter Fraud are actively and openly alleging Trump or others will engage in Fraud to get Trump elected.
Your hypocracy is boundless.
I do not care whether you – or Trump or anyone else is wrong about something we have no control over.
It appears that physicists that have put forth “string theory” are wrong.
For ordinary people that is of no consequence.
Regardless, the rules of the universe are set – whether we know or understand them.
“White professor who pretended to be black resigns from GW University history department.”
That’s nice. But I am wondering, if white privilege is so great, why are so many white people pretending to be black or American Indian?
More From Bob Woodward’s New Book:
Trump Repeatedly Denied Virus Danger When He Knew How Bad It Was
In his soon-to-be-released book, “Rage,” Woodward reveals that Trump intentionally played down the threat from covid-19, which has killed at least 186,000 Americans since February and dealt a gut punch to the economy.
At a time when the president was assuring the country that this virus was no more serious than ordinary flu, and that his administration had the situation under control, he was telling Woodward a far different story.
On Feb. 7, the president called Woodward and told him that the coronavirus was “deadly stuff.” “You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed,” Trump said. “And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu.”
In another interview, on March 19, Trump admitted to Woodward that he deliberately lied about the danger to the public.
“I think, Bob, really, to be honest with you, I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down, because I don’t want to create a panic,” the president said.
These are not a leak from anonymous sources. These are the president’s own words. You can hear them on Woodward’s tape.
Trump had been apprised of the truth as far back as Jan. 28, when he was briefed during a top-secret session in the Oval Office. At that point, the outbreak had not spread widely beyond China.
“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency,” national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien told Trump, according to Woodward’s reporting. “This is going to be the roughest thing you face.”
Matthew Pottinger, the deputy national security adviser, had been speaking to contacts in China and warned the president that he could be facing a health emergency as bad as the flu pandemic of 1918, which killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide.
But Trump continued to sell a far different line in public. On Feb. 10 — three days after he had told Woodward that covid-19 was “deadly stuff” — he predicted the virus would disappear by April: “When it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”
And on Feb. 26, shortly after the first cases were reported in this country, he blithely assured us: “We’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.”
The consequences of Trump’s refusal to be straight with the country, we now know, have been tragic.
Rather than taking cautionary measures that could have spared immeasurable suffering, such as assuring that adequate testing was available, the president denied what he knew was true. Or, as he so memorably put it at a news conference in March: “I don’t take responsibility at all.”
In that case, however, Trump was telling us something fundamental about himself. Those six words are both the most fitting epitaph for his presidency, and the central reason that Americans should put an end to it when they go to the polls in November.
Edited from: “What Bob Woodward’s Book Tells Us About Trump”
Today’s Washington Post
SIGNIFICANT PASSAGE ABOVE:
These are not a leak from anonymous sources. These are the president’s own words. You can hear them on Woodward’s tape.
If Woodward knew in March that coronavirus was so deadly, why did he sit on his story for 6 months? Why did Woodward wait until just before the election to release his book? Oh, that’s right.
And one could ask, ” why did Trump tell him that when he knew he was being taped? ” It is illegal to record a conversation without the party being notified. That is why you hear ” this conversation may be recorded for training purposes” before talking with C.R. at a busuness.
And why release it 60 days before election. Why not the “October surprise” .
Something just doesnt seem right in all this.
Because Trump is the most transparent president in history. He’s got nothing to hide He speaks freely to the press despite their unfair treatment of him. Can’t say the same about Joe Biden, that’s for sure.
Yeah, “Trump is the most transparent president in history,” which is why he’s been fighting tooth and nail to keep his tax returns from being made public, ending decades of presidents and presidential candidates making them public, and why he’s fighting being deposed in E. Jean Carroll’s suit and Summer Zervos’s suit, … /s
“He lies freely to the press” — FIFY.
Commit, maybe he meant transparent as a 3 year old who needs a nap. Only his cult followers remain blind to his character and intent.
He surely has given more interviews than any other president. Obviously it’s a brand management tactic of Trump’s to emit an avalanche of content via the mass media. By the time they have done parsing through the boatload of content he gave Woodward there will be some other outrage du jour. Indeed there are so many things happening now which command more concern than whether or not he sufficiently warned– at the very same time he was being called “drastic” or “xenophobic” for his modest travel ban– Biden used the word “hysterical” in fact. So perhaps his thought of not alarming the public overmuch, was occcuring in that context. Of course some people never want to remember context when they go backward and second guess leadership adjectives and their sufficiency at the time, in retrospect.
We might say he is a fibber, or that he zealously tries to guard his tax returns. But, I don’t see how you can deny that he has given unparalleled access to the press.
The net effect of this, is that the public feels they know him. We will see come November, does that cut his way or not.
“ And one could ask, ” why did Trump tell him that when he knew he was being taped? ”
The simple answer is that he’s just an idiot or a complete dumbass. Either choice is appropriate.
Well that might be true. But everytime something like this comes up, which in part is hearing his own voice, Trump had a plan. Its like putting someone on a leash with the knot around their neck, he gives them slack, they take the bait and hang themselves.
Again, you could be right. But I am waiting to see what he has up his sleeve.
By the way, the is an excellent summary. Fauci is not so smart when you read it with a open mind.
And one could ask, ” why did Trump tell him that when he knew he was being taped? ”
Because he’s a massive idiot. It’s pretty self explanatory.
Yeah, anonymous, you went right to the heart of the issue facing the country: Is Bob Woodward the cause of our poor response to the virus and should any of us ever vote for him to be president?
More books that will make money for the publishers and authors, a tax on fools who buy them, and will not win the struggle that has been joined.
They will clutter up goodwill stores in a year and sell for ten cents on the retail price dollar.
My question is why the F would Trump give Woodward access like that? Didn’t Woodward do this to Trump once before? Why grant him hours and hours expecting something different?
Anonymous, that was my first thought the moment I heard about this book. Perhaps Trump, being the narcissist he is, couldn’t resist being covered by such a well-known author.
“My question is why the F would Trump give Woodward access like that? Didn’t Woodward do this to Trump once before? Why grant him hours and hours expecting something different?“
Because he’s an idiot with a giant ego that needs to be constantly satisfied.
“TRUMP’S ‘WAR ON JOURNALISM’ TAKES CENTERSTAGE AT JULIAN ASSANGE’S EXTRADITION HEARING”
09 SEP 2020
by Kevin Gosztola
Timm maintained the U.S. government should not be in the business of determining which newspapers or media organizations exercise sound editorial judgment or not. The question should be whether what WikiLeaks did in publishing those cables was illegal, and it was not.
Furthermore, Timm called the prosecutor’s attention to the fact that former media partners, which were upset with WikiLeaks, are opposed to the prosecution of Assange.
In Timm’s statement to the court, Timm highlighted how Trump has “attempted to stifle press freedom at all levels.” The U.S. Press Freedom Tracker, which FPF uses to track press freedom violations in the U.S., has tallied over 2,000 examples, where Trump tweeted “negative remarks, insults, or threats to the press” since his presidential campaign in 2016. He has referred to journalists as “enemies of the people.”
The strong testimony of Timm in defense of press freedom and the First Amendment was hard for Lewis to undermine. So, he asked, “Why should your opinion be preferred over the opinion of courts in the United States?”
“My opinion is in line with previous court opinions,” Timm answered. “There’s never been a publisher charged in this manner before,” and, “Supreme Court precedent is almost wholly on the side of Mr. Assange in this case.”
There are guidelines known as the federal rules of prosecution that Justice Department employees are expected to follow. Lewis absurdly cited these rules as evidence that the Assange prosecution could not be a part of a “war on journalism.” -Kevin Gosztola
Journalism these days is nnothing more than the prerogatives of very big and rich global multinational media corporations who know no loyalty besides that which they owe to the ownership, and make too much out of their extended privileges to defame under NYT v Sullivan and the whole kit and caboodle of overwrought socalled First Amendment laws which they misuse against the common good
They are also notorious liars and nobody much cares about them besides their lackeys and steppinfetchits.
They understood that was happening back around when Time Warner bought AOL and since then the “Social media” companies like Twitter have become the focus of mischief for the global oligarchs who want to “cancel” the people’s choice in Trump. And are planning to stymie it again if they can. We gonna see about that.
“Journalism these days is nnothing more than the prerogatives of very big and rich global multinational media corporations who know no loyalty besides that which they owe to the ownership…”
Sy Hersh is a legend of real investigative journalism. He’s the kind of liberal who has integrity.
He dislikes Trump I am sure,. and yet. He is fair. He has a long memory too, which makes him pretty different than the worthless fake news media of today.
His book Sampson Option has some interesting information about biological warfare that is worth reconsidering. Perhaps relevant, or prophetic?
I don’t have time to dig it out. Get the book if you can.
In Gutierrez de Martinez v. Lamagno, 515 U.S. 417 (1995), the Supreme Court held that the Attorney General’s certification that a federal employee acted within the scope of employment is reviewable in court.
The Big Lies Democrats and their Media keep repeating re Trump —–>
He purposely let a virus spread that killed 180,000 people. FALSE
He says our troops are “suckers” and “losers”. FALSE
He rigged government to enrich himself and his friends. FALSE (*see Joe Biden and family + Barack Obama and friends to see what “enriching themselves” looks like)
This is Joe Biden’s campaign message in a nutshell. All outright lies.
This is the Democrats only message to voters. Lie. Lie. Lie. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Oh, forgot the old stand by: RACIST!!!
Tiresome, isn’t it?
So says a Trump lapdog.
Tell that to the lapdog national media that fawned over Obama and Biden for eight years instead of objectively covering their administration and reporting on what they were actually doing. Obama spied on journalists, prosecuted journalists, jailed journalists, and yet the media still were obedient lapdogs. Journalists were spied on, as were Senators, and still they capitulated to Obama’s cult of personality.
Pure panic from the cult.
You talking about Joe Biden and the Dems, right? Because the panic is coming from them. Have you seen Joe Biden in action? Oh man, they have problems over there.
Have you seen the polls? Latino voters are getting behind Trump. Biden camp is panicking.
Have you seen the polls in PA? Republican voter registrations nearly twice the rate of Dems with Trump anticipated to win PA at 2-3x what he did in 2016. Biden camp is panicking.
Have you seen the polls for the African American voters? Way up from 2016. Like, way up. Biden camp is panicking.
So yeah, ‘pure panic from the cult’ of Biden.
The only ‘cult’ following Biden is the MSM. The press covers for Biden. That is different from covering Biden.
Anonymous has no sources here. We’re just supposed to agree with his moral outrage.
Comments excerpted from Democrat Congressman Chris Murphy’s tweeted talking points. These are straight outta the Democrat script. You will hear these same lies over and over again with no pushback or correction by the media.
“Trump’s denial (which is the basis for the defamation claim”
There Turley goes again, representing Trump (falsely) in the best possible light. The defamation claim isn’t based on his denial. It’s based on him calling her a liar and insulting her appearance.
Here we go again. Joe Biden is in Michigan today holding a press conference, a rare opportunity for reporters to question Joe Biden on his proposed policies, etc. Who knows what Joe Biden’s agenda is? We sure haven’t heard much about it. And what we have heard from Biden sounds an awful lot like Trump’s agenda and policies. Joe “the plagiarizer” is at it again. He just can’t help himself, can he?
Here’s the MO: Media drops a negative hit job story about Trump. Media at Biden presser asks Biden for comments on negative story about Trump. Biden’s comments slamming Trump blanket the local news headlines and cable news cycle. Biden is not asked questions about his own policies, his own comments or his own record. Media covers for Biden. Voila, another coordinated media hit job. Rinse repeat until November. See how it works when you are a Democrat?
“Glenn Greenwald: Why The Media Is SILENT On Julian Assange’s Trial”
•Sep 9, 2020
This accusation after 30 years is just one more desperate, malicious, last ditch attempt to slime the president and impact his numbers before the election. It is purely political and affects him in the functioning of his office as president. These are not normal times. There is a political party that has done nothing but lie about, defame and act to bring down the Trump presidency since the day he was legally elected.Thank God Barr is knows the law well enough, technicality or not, to use it for its proper purpose.
Assange was the go-between linking Roger Stone and Russian Intelligence. Hardly a ‘hero’ by any stretch of the imagination.
And you have no idea what it takes to be a ‘hero’ — that’s for certain.
Bob Woodward’s New Book Echoes The Atlantic’s Claims Regarding Trump And Military
At another point in Mr. Woodward’s book, “Rage,” Mr. Trump’s former defense secretary, Gen. Jim Mattis is quoted as telling the former director of national intelligence that Mr. Trump is “dangerous” and “unfit” for the presidency. And the former director of national intelligence believed Russia had “something” on Mr. Trump.
Mr. Mattis and the director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, struggled with how to communicate the threat they felt Mr. Trump presented to the nation’s security. Mr. Coats was haunted by Mr. Trump’s tweets and believed that Mr. Trump’s gentle approach to Russia reflected something more sinister.
“Maybe at some point we’re going to have to stand up and speak out,” Mr. Mattis told Mr. Coats during a conversation in May 2019, according to the book, which goes on sale next week. “There may be a time when we have to take collective action.”
When Mr. Mattis quit after Mr. Trump wanted to withdraw troops fighting the Islamic State in the Middle East, according to Mr. Woodward the general reflected, “When I was basically directed to do something that I thought went beyond stupid to felony stupid, strategically jeopardizing our place in the world and everything else, that’s when I quit.”
Mr. Coats, who learned he was being fired from his position in July 2019 from a New York Times article that posted online while he was on the golf course at Mr. Trump’s private club, was chewed out by Mr. Trump after a briefing with reporters about the threat that Russia presented to the nation’s elections systems. Mr. Coats had gone further than he and the president had discussed beforehand.
“What was that briefing?” he asked, apparently upset about all the focus on Russia. “Why’d you do that?”
Mr. Trump complained about the various investigations into his campaign and Russia and, according to the book, leaned on Mr. Coats to either curtail the federal investigation or to publicly echo the conclusions of the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation that there was no conspiracy. Mr. Coats tried to explain that that was beyond what he had visibility into, according to the book.
At one point, Mr. Trump moaned that the investigations were hindering his abilities as president.
“Putin said to me in a meeting, he said, it’s a shame, because I know it’s very hard for you to make a deal with us. I said, you’re right,” Mr. Trump said.
Edited from: “More Than Ever, Trump Casts Himself As The Defender Of White America”
Today’s New York Times
Trump gave Bob Woodward up to 18 hours of interview time between winter and spring. Though it’s hard to imagine Trump expected Woodward to write a less than critical book. Woodward documents that Trump realized early on that the coronavirus pandemic would be a very serious crisis. Yet Trump publicly dismissed the virus threat weeks after admitting to Woodward that it was, indeed, serious.
Is this the same Bob Woodward who claimed to have had 12 hours worth of interviews with the moribund Wm Casey in his hospital bed, never encountering Casey’s wife, Casey’s daughter, doctors, nurses, or hospital security?
It’s the same Woodward who wrote “Bush At War”.
I’d like to ask General Mattis how many wars has Donald Trump gotten us into.
This is good news:
US withdrawing thousands of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan
If he pardons Snowden and Assange is allowed to go free, I might just vote for him.
Call me stupid.
Is it an election year?
No doubt; this is definitely not a frivolous political action abusive of the court, right?
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
No you know why the American Founders established a restricted-vote republic, distinctly not a one man, one vote democrazy.
“the people are nothing but a great beast…
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value.”
– Alexander Hamilton
ANTIFA’s Stalinist roots.
I was reading a memoir of a German officer who was captured by the Soviets and held for ten years. This part, from 1949, caught my eye:
“Twice a week there were meetings of the so-called ANTIFA, a camp anti-fascist organization, and we were regaled with political speeches but there was never any proper discussion–how could there be in an atmosphere of political terror?”
I wondered how it came to be that there were ANTIFA organizations in Europe. Never bothered to check.
But from this it appears that ANTIFA is one of Stalin’s toys set loose on the world.
The book is “I Was Hitler’s Pilot” by Hans Bauer.
I don’t attribute them to stalin. They claim to be anarchists. That puts them in the vein of Bakunin, who was hated by Marx. The anarchists do not support any form of government. The anarchist Chomsky is always critizing the USSR and there is no wonder why. Anarchists hate any form of law and order even Soviet ones.
Many of those who liked Bakunin, later became the Commie far left that was later associated with Lev Bronstein aka Trotsky.
Trotsky was a darling of the anarchist POUM Catalonian militia in the Spanish Civil war.
George Orwell, who was himself a POUM volunteer, details in his book “diaries of Catalonia” how Stalin’s guys operating on the Republican side of the Civil war, essentially used the conflict to liquidate Trotksy’s supporters who had volunteered for the conflict.
Stalin’s policy rejected international revolution and instead called for “socialism in one nation.” Now of course he conquered Eastern European nations in the wake of WWII, and he also funded and armed rivals of the US like North Korea. However, he backed off the level of international revolution that was the policy under Lenin and Trotsky.
ANTIFA as an constellation of groups in Europe, has a history in the post WWII era as street fighting gangs who often locked horns with white working class youths such as the “skinheads” who were a big thing in Europe in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. When skinhead culture migrated here, in the 80s, it brought the left-right dialectic with it to the US. So there were racist skinheads and also for example SHARPS ie skinheads against racism and whatever. You occasionally see a skinheaded freak among the ANTIFA ranks even today, though it appears they overall, strongly favor long dirty hair dyed funny neon colors.
Please provide update. I can only find ME ruled accident in June
this is just another piece of left wing PCrap in preparation for the replacement a Supreme Court Justice and like all the rest of the crap has no material meaning outside the world of left wing anti American Fascism.
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