Below is my column in The Hill on the challenges to the presidential election and moving beyond heated allegations to hard evidence in the filings. I have expressed skepticism over the sweeping claims of fraud or that the current margins could be overcome with anything other than systemic flaws in the authentication of ballots. However, the demand for clear evidence of systemic violations after only a couple days of the tabulation stage is bizarre. We would not necessarily have such evidence, which is largely held by election officials. As expected, we have a series of localized affidavits and allegations of intentional fraud. Yet, network analysts were dismissing any and all allegations within the first 24 hours, as tabulations were continuing. It is like saying that a patient has a low white blood cell level but insisting on stopping testing if you cannot conclusively say that there is cancer. These initial allegations may or may not be indicative of a more systemic problem. There is no reason to presume fraud but also no reason to demand concessions before we look at these allegations, particularly with the addition of sworn statements and at least one computer problem resulting in loss of thousands of Trump votes in Michigan. Half of this country voted for Trump and it is not much for them to ask for a review of the challenges — a right that the Democrats would be demanding if the positions in this close election were reversed. Moreover, those voters can be understandably skeptical to hear these instant dismissals from networks, which previously predicted a sweeping victory for Biden and the Democrats. Even if, as expected, these allegations are rejected, it is important for this country to have a full and open consideration of these claims and the underlying evidence.
Just when you thought the 2020 election could not be more bizarre, a hearing in Las Vegas on challenges by the Trump campaign went full Monty Python. After days of charges of fraud, we are finally at that “bring out your dead” moment from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The Trump campaign has been claiming that ballots have been “cast on behalf of deceased voters” as well as thousands of ineligible voters in Nevada, and federal judge Andrew Gordon demanded the names. When no evidence was given, Gordon refused to intervene last night.
In the movie, two men try to toss a protesting old man on a death cart during the Black Plague. When the driver objects that the man is not dead, the thugs insist “he will be soon” and ask the driver to “hang around a couple of minutes.” After trying to convince the driver to wait, they just club him and throw him on the pile. As shown by Gordon, when it comes to elections, judges do not “hang around” for a bit. In federal court, you bring out your dead or your case is dead.
If the Trump campaign is premature in claiming a deceased electorate, the Biden campaign is premature in claiming Donald Trump is deceased in the race. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi referred to him in the past tense and Joe Biden as president elect. Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney called on the president to “put his big boy pants on” and concede like Al Gore even after officials said they were still counting votes.
Kenney appeared to have blocked out any memory of the 2000 election, when Gore challenged the results and fueled an intense battle. Trump is simply doing what Gore did. With George Bush leading in Florida by under 1,800 votes, his campaign sent him to claim victory and create the image of president elect. When Democrats challenged the results and filed lawsuits demanding recounts, they were viewed as fighting the will of the people. A meticulous recount led to a change of around 900 votes before the election was sent to a close with the Supreme Court ruling.
What came next is often overlooked. Several studies found Gore likely won Florida, but Bush was already sworn in as president. Democrats claimed that Bush was “illegitimate” and that the Supreme Court should not have ended the recount. As is often the case in our politics, the parties are now on different sides of the same issue. The consistent element is that the parties support the process to the extent that it is demonstrably in their favor. Trump appears to trust it when he is ahead but views any deficiency of votes as fraudulent, and Democrats want every vote included but not recounted.
We are finishing only the second of four stages in an election for president. After the voting stage, states began the tabulation stage. We will soon enter the canvass stage, in which local districts confirm their counts and face challenges or recounts. Finally, there is the certification stage, in which final challenges can be raised. In other words, Trump is not deceased yet. Biden has reason to claim his lead as the odds are heavily against Trump. One or two states could flip on a “Hail Mary” challenge. But Trump needs four of those to win in a feat that would hyperventilate Aaron Rogers.
Yet the public should welcome close scrutiny of these swing states. There are valid reasons to examine the figures based on the many unknowns in a new kind of election. The outcome will be determined by millions of mailed ballots in various states, some of which have never used such mailed ballots to this magnitude, and legitimate concerns were raised before the election.
States used rolls that are notoriously out of date and inaccurate. Some changed rules governing signature authentication or are accused of reducing the discrimination levels for machine authentication. In Nevada, the Trump campaign alleged that thousands of votes were cast from out of state and ballots were sent to dead voters. We cannot judge the merits of these claims until we see the evidence. It is difficult to see any problems without greater access to the ballots and the records of tabulation.
Just as some of us remain skeptical of such claims of fraud, it seems as implausible that this untested form of voting was used across the country without major glitches. Officials in cities like Detroit and Philadelphia with histories of election violations said the counts of mailed ballots were almost flawless, a claim difficult to rebut without review.
We need a review of counts in critical states to resolve a crisis of faith. A recent survey found that almost half of Americans lack confidence their ballots will be counted fairly. A Harvard study also found that only half of young black voters believe their ballots are even counted. This lack of faith in the electoral process has been fueled by the shift to mailed ballots but builds on growing distrust of our political system.
Past elections for president faced controversies over faithless electors who changed their votes after an election. The Supreme Court dealt with a number of such faithless electors from the 2016 election and resolved that states can force them to cast their votes in line with the wishes of voters. But this could be the year of faithless voters rather than faithless electors. We lost faith in our political system. Our leaders fueled doubts as Trump claimed the election was stolen, Democrats accused him of the same with his challenges, and Pelosi denounced Justice Amy Coney Barrett as an illegitimate.
We neither listen to nor trust each other anymore. Almost half the country voted for Trump, even after years of negative media coverage. We need neither concessions of defeat nor declarations of victory. We need transparency so that whoever is the next president can govern with legitimacy. This is why the involvement of the courts is not a bad thing. If nothing else, a judge can decline to do a post mortem on a living candidate on the same grounds stated by the driver who said, “I cannot take him like this. It is against regulations.”
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
Do you believe in the super natural? This election may have been cursed. The undead voted!
Jerry-That Bat looked as alive as Joey B, LOL.
Half of this country did not vote for Trump. More than half voted for Biden. The Democrats won the popular vote by a lot – probably 7,000,000 when all votes from CA and Ny are counted.
Americans are sick of a minority of the country- Trump’s base – having their Alice in Wonderland view of the world run things.
Majority rule, yeah! Mission for Dems, and their media, is to clear Mitch McConnell out of the way and give Joe a Democrat Senate so they can implement the progressive agenda that more than half the country did NOT vote for. The ENTIRE Democrat political machine is now descending on Georgia to ensure they achieve the power they seek, by any means necessary, at any cost. All who campaigned for Joe and Kamala are now physically moving to Georgia to make sure Ossoff and Warnock win and Chuck Schumer is made Senate Majority Leader so they can “change America” to fit their own vision.
It is not abou the people. It is not about fairness. It is about raw political power and doing whatever necessary to get it.
Georgia MUST hold the Senate for Republicans.
LOL that you try to claim that Democrats are all about raw political power, when Mitch McConnell is the one who refused to even hold hearings for Merrick Garland, refused to allow votes for a large number of the judges nominated by Obama (leaving a lot of vacancies then filled by Trump), refused to allow votes on a large number of bills sent to the Senate from the House, rushed through confirmation of Barrett, and more.
The Senate would be better off without McConnell as the Majority Leader.
Count the states, not the popular vote. Like Clinton, Biden has won big in a few large states, not nationally. The rest split half and half.
At the moment, BIden is winning by 1.846,850 in New York and 4,496,470 in California, for a total of 6,343,3210 — add in Illinois and you get 7,083,973, the difference between the Trump vote and the Biden vote. Take out those three states and you have a 50-50 split.
Put another way, Biden lost 25 states, maybe more, depending on how the recounts go.
The GOP gained in the House, and the Senate is a dead heat. Hardly a Blue Wave, and certainly not a “minority” of the country in favor of Trump.
Statistically, the country is split, with the popular vote skewed due to two states with very large and very Democratic cities. Indeed, take out Detroit, and Michigan goes for Trump. Take out Milwaukee and Wisconsin goes for Trump. Take out Atlanta, and Georgia is for Trump.
The Founders were not Democrats; they were Republicans. They considered human nature flawed and fickle, so they created a system of checks and balances, following Tacitus and Montesquieu (and Machiavelli, if you read his Discourses rather than The Prince). Hence the Electoral College, which rebalances the vote, and the Senate, which is a check on the House. Basic Civics, which used to be taught in grade school and high school. No longer, I guess. Too busy being trendy.
California and New York do not constitute a majority in the country, unless we assume the south and the Midwest are in some other country, which would surprise their inhabitants, Trump and Biden supporters alike.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/
I have a friend who’s neighbor got a mail in vote form for her husband who’s been dead since 2006.
There are terrible holes in the system.
BS
Even if that’s true, the critical question is whether it would have been rejected if it had been submitted.
The backers of Medical Monopoly Capitalism will trash Biden.
MMC is the worst thing in America.
I want my senior Medicare to cover medical care.
Turley is becoming a master at misdirection. He says Trump supporters have every right to be skeptical of “any instant dismissal from networks who previously predicted a sweeping victory for Biden & the Democrats.” As usual, he’s exaggerating. CNN, MSNBC & ABC regularly featured FiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver, Amy Walters & other polling experts who all maintained Trump could win the election. Meanwhile, Trafalgar Group’s chief pollster went on Hannity to guarantee a Trump victory. His polls predicted Trump would win Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona & Georgia.
Fox News reported many of Trump’s lawsuits have been tossed out by federal judges. They reported the Trump campaign’s claim that their poll watchers weren’t allowed to watch ballots being counted at Pennsylvania polling stations is completely false & Trump’s own attorneys admitted that wasn’t true in court. Turley compares Gore challenging a vote count in Florida showing he lost by 537 votes to Trump declaring himself the winner because the vote count on election night had him ahead in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, & Georgia.
Turley presumably doesn’t believe Trump’s bold proclamation “I won the election by a lot!” is deliberately sowing discord & undermining the integrity of our country’s free & fair elections. A poll taken 8 months after Trump took office showed half of his supporters believe he won the popular vote in 2016. No one should be surprised those same supporters now don’t accept the results of the 2020 election & quickly dismiss Fox News reports about Trump campaign lawsuits being tossed out in courts.
You have a very large Dominion software problem that will be exposed during the Georgia recount.
Welcome to Hell, RacePace.
1. Biden doesn’t need Georgia to win.
2. No, there was not a Dominion software problem. There was a human input problem which was quickly caught – as the system is designed to do – and rectified.
You’re not very bright, Joe.
The same Dominion software used in Georgia was also used in 27 other States, including all of the swing States.
It was also the same software used to screw Sanders in the 2016 primaries and the 2020 primaries.
SCOTUS is coming.
Rhodes, you brought up Georgia not me.
There is no problem with the Dominion software and your implied accusation is as ridiculous as your accusations about the Democratic primaries.
Wow The NY Times thought mail in voting was easily corrupted I don’t think they fixed it by now the Times trusts it. What changed?
Election administrators have a shorthand name for a central weakness of voting by mail. They call it granny farming.
“The problem,” said Murray A. Greenberg, a former county attorney in Miami, “is really with the collection of absentee ballots at the senior citizen centers.” In Florida, people affiliated with political campaigns “help people vote absentee,” he said. “And help is in quotation marks.”
Voters in nursing homes can be subjected to subtle pressure, outright intimidation or fraud. The secrecy of their voting is easily compromised. And their ballots can be intercepted both coming and going.
The problem is not limited to the elderly, of course. Absentee ballots also make it much easier to buy and sell votes. In recent years, courts have invalidated mayoral elections in Illinois and Indiana because of fraudulent absentee ballots.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-by-mail-faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html?referringSource=articleShare
Rhodes the Russian troll claims a software problem that he doesn’t present any evidence for. What a surprise.
Turley writes:
“Half of this country voted for Trump and it is not much for them to ask for a review of the challenges — a right that the Democrats would be demanding if the positions in this close election were reversed. ”
BS. Hillary lost the 2016 election in the same 3 states Trump lost them this year and by smaller amounts, and on the day after the election conceded and wished Trump well. She ;later showed up at the inauguration, no doubt an extremely painful experience made more so by the fact that she won the vote of a majority of Americans. She had guts, integrity, and an overriding concern to do the right thing and to support our system and our government.
There is nothing unique about this election and it’s outcome that warrants what Turley suggests other than that the loser is too small to admit he lost, or to act in the interests of the country. Sorry, but that’s not a good reason and you have no other. The model for what his behavior – and our country’s behavior – should be is what happened in 2016. Most Americans and Hillary hated that result, but we sucked it up, some took to the street to peacefully protest, and we certainly didn’t call for holding up the results or facilitating the transition (Trump’s GSA head is now holding up transition access to Biden’s team). Republicans, you don’t need Turley’s excuse making for avoiding doing the right thing. You lost this one. You had a great showing with a record breaking turn out. Trouble is we had a better one. Turn the page, face the music, and let’s continue the dance without the phony crisis.
So when someone (i.e. Trump) yells “fraud”, we have to search for fraud. Is this how we do it when someone yells fire in a crowded building? Everyone stay calm, just sit in your seats, we will search for the fire and when we have certified that there is a fire by at least 3 witnesses and a district judge, then please calmly walk to the exits. I don’t think so.
This idiot has been yelling falsehoods for 4 years. His track record at telling the truth is extremely limited, perhaps non existent. Yes, the baboon got 70 million votes. For me this just shows how badly our education system has become and how bad the Demos have done. I could be wrong, but my hope is that a Biden Presidency brings back some level of honesty that the news media can report and people believe.
Our democracy is being torn apart, by the Repos. Stop it. Stop it now.
This is not the same as 2000 by any stretch of the imagination. Gore was requesting a hard recount in a state that he was machine counted to have lost by less than 1/10th of a percent. There were widespread allegations of minorities being turned away at polls and the candidate’s own brother was governor of the state. Here you’re talking about a difference of thousands to tens of thousands of ballots in several states, many of which have Republican legislatures. Trump has filed a number of frivolous lawsuits and what case is he making in each? Requesting a recount? Or making wild claims that he was cheated without saying how? The right alleges fraud all the while knowing many on the left have been taking covid seriously and masking up/staying indoors for months. GOP legislatures didn’t want to allow mail in voting and then didn’t want to allow counting to begin before Election Day in states like Pennsylvania does now the mail in vote takes longer than the same day vote. The same day exit polls lean right because you have a number of people that believe the virus is a hoax and don’t care about going into crowded conditions. There was no scenario where trump wasn’t going to claim he lost to fraud. He’s been doing it since before the 2016 election where he claimed he would lose due to corruption, and then when he won claimed it was due to illegal votes with no evidence. He like is I’ll make these outlandish claims and have nothing to show for it. Please show me where after 4 years the 2016 election popular vote was won due to illegal ballots. You claim Biden is premature in claiming victory, but Trump was claiming victory and states that weren’t close to counting all on Election Day
Ahh edit button would be nice. Auto correct ton the phone changed a number of my words
“He like his ilk” not “he like is I’ll”. “So now the mail in vote” not “does now the mail in vote”. Finally the machine recount showed Gore lost by 327 votes out of nearly 6 million. Anyone would understand why a recount is needed in that case and the GOP was hellbent on preventing it. Please show where Trump has a state he is that close to winning. Georgia is his closest gambit and it hasn’t been called yet. His cronies are claiming more people voted than live in the state of Georgia while posting stats about the country of Georgia that has millions less people believe it or not. A flock of hypocrites complaining about matchsticks from the left while lighting bonfires on the right
Reminders from 2016:
John Dickerson: “When @realDonaldTrump gave his acceptance speech after Clinton called conceded, the electoral count hadn’t reached 270. The point is that the media made a projection before the EV number got to 270, Clinton conceded and Donald Trump accepted. The president asked “since when”? Since his election, when there were fewer tabulated votes than now and fewer projected EVs.”
https://twitter.com/jdickerson/status/1325656753657290752 (photo of the EC results still not having reached 270)
VP Biden met with VP-Elect Pence at the WH *two days* after the election in 2016, the day after the media (not the states or the courts) called the election for Trump and Pence:
https://twitter.com/VP44/status/796853101978390532 (photo of the two of them at the WH)
The votes were still being counted in several states.
Either Trump has evidence of fraud or he doesn’t. So far, he doesn’t. He’s simply too narcissistic to accept that he lost.
+1 Commit, There is nothing unique about the results of this election other than the character of the loser. Turley’s attempts and humoring him is a very bad precedent that would throw every election in the future into an ongoing fight and undermine our confidence in our ability to self govern. Turley should quit the pandering.
If it was the other way, Turley would be for shutting down the votes and declaring victory. And most likely looking at his new job in the Trump administration. He has FOX locked away already, maybe a new job at the Trump TV network as a “legal advisor”
So let me get this straight: the prof expects those engaged in fraud (and yes, this can include judges, amd it could be in any circumstance, not just this one) to proclaim, ‘Yes, I committed fraud!’. Is he serious? The scariest part to me is that which reached a point where such admissions, if they come from the correct side, are met with approval. Don’t get me started on our modern update yo the erstwhile Hitler Youth, also known as ‘Antifa’, and the ‘squad’, along with a troubling number of young up and comers. Is this a coping mechanism? Is it just too painful for members of a particular generation to accept that they created this through their parenting and that they have lived a lie believing their ideals were in alignment with the Democrat party? The blind spots are so selective I can only think so. This is NOT isolated behavior, not remotely, and it is not going to be put in check by anyone on the left. The people who oppose it already did by and large – at the polls, and they did not vote dem.
I believe in transparency and accept the results of our untainted rule of law. The DNC very purposefully obfuscated any possibility of either, and they aren’t going to stop now.
If we don’t act now to ensure integrity in January, Turley himself may end up on a list simply because he is fair. Why is it so tough for a certain age group to see the truth about so many young people? It is not a phase. They are not *well*, and it didn’t happen by random chance.
I would urge everyone to start intensely eyeballing January right. Now. And don’t relent in the scrutiny.
You seem “not *well*” James.
Thank you.
PS – don’t be fooled when a troll posts a perfectly diametrical contrary post directly beneath yours – it’s a strategy to confuse anyone arriving here late to think their narrative is predominant when in fact, the most honest posts tend to appear first and are hence at the bottom. It isn’t even done for your comment’s benefit, just to populate the thread.
In order to know what to write, they can’t post a reversal until legitimate commenters have populated the thread a bit, that’s the tell and the chink in the armor. Look early enough and they are nowhere to be found. That’s why more often than not the troll farms pop up here a little later than everyone else.
Additionally, real people with real counterpoints tend to not fall back on rhetoric or hostility, at least not initially. Trolls leave the gate swinging with it, it usually sounds, if not scripted, at least talking point heavy. You can recognize those points because they are never variations on a theme – they are identical.
Troll farm 101! Goes back to the earliest chatrooms. They are knuckleheads that think no one else has ever used technology or read a book.
You are getting it twisted. Whoever alleges has to prove the allegations in a court of law. Prof is been disingenuous why can’t the GOP go to court to request access to whatever info they need from officials. Most of the suits filled so far are about limiting the counting of provisional ballots not about fraud. All fraud allegations are only on the media, social media or in press interviews.
Not a doubt. The worst election fraud in modern history. The election was deviously stolen. Donald Trump was re-elected. This debacle should be resisted with all legal means! Otherwise, we have become a banana republic and no future election can be trusted.
If you have evidence, turn it over to authorities.
If you don’t have evidence, your insistence that it’s fraud means that you have an overactive imagination.
If you don’t have evidence, your insistence that it’s fraud means that you have an overactive imagination.
Hmm 🤔 the standard for allegations by Democrats and the Left over the last 4 years has been to promote whatever their overactive imaginations come up with. Then when the actual evidence leads to allegations against the Democrats, they want the evidence ignored.
So just admit, evidence is not the gold standard for you, imagination is. You’re an effing hypocrite and too dain bramaged to know it.
Evidence is the gold standard for me, and it’s humorous that you’d suggest that it isn’t, but without presenting any evidence that it isn’t.
Your gold standard is hypocrisy. Anyone looking for evidence to prove my point need only to access the blog archives. It’s full of it and you’re full of something else altogether.
Lots of people post anonymously, Olly. If you think we’re all a single (very sick) person, no wonder you’re confused.
I don’t care who posts anonymously. If they post as if they’ve spent a lifetime eating paint chips, then they deserve the moniker.
It’s pretty obvious that different anonymous commenters have very different views when it comes to evidence. I’m one who considers evidence to be the gold standard.
THE EVIDENCE IS NOW BEING ASSEMBLED for the courts and there appears to be a lot. I am sure they have experts looking at the Software switching issues, Software firm is controlled by Major DEM’s??Smell?? MSM and DEM’s do not want the Evidence for they know already its REAL and they don’t want a light shinned on it.
TRUMP will win in Supreme Court watch PA and then the recounts with Legal/Poll Watchers right there and no denying them access they will find many ?????ballots and also project other ballots will be thrown out by the courts and just simply they should have not been counted. Then we have the DEM’s admitting on Face Book they threw out ballots with video’s/pictures. Hello DOJ.
““Bring Out Your Dead”: The Trump Campaign Faces Calls For Evidence To Support Allegations of Voter Fraud”
This title should prove the disdain that the connected DC legal class has for the US population in general. Any evidence a worker has somewhere just ain’t that big of a thing. Regardless of what happens, every piece of evidence needs to be documented. Thanks to the Professor for making his position clear on where he stands for the singular American.
It is not about getting to the truth, it is not about establishing trust in our electoral process, it is about achieving a desired result, regardless of how it is achieved.
It seems the cries of dictator and Hitler, were confessions rather than accusations.
Simple answer to problem: verifiable ID, in person voting, absentee ballots for military.
None of that does anything about the 2020 election, and you haven’t shown that there’s a problem.
There is no way that the odds should be heavily against President Trump!! Did you see the American people turn out for him??? There is serious fraud in this election.
There was some voter fraud. However, vote-counting fraud is entirely possible with the software used.
Lots of things are possible. But a plaintiff doesn’t have a legal case without evidence.
Yes, of course, evidence is needed. Thus investigation is needed.
Turley has a big problem here. He says it’s bizarre for the demand for hard evidence after only a few days of allegations.
Turley is a lawyer and he KNOWS evidence is needed to prove the allegations. However the majority of claims cite…evidence…of fraud without presenting it. That’s a big problem. Turley also ignores the fact that lawsuits have been thrown out because of lack of…evidence.
So far all of the allegations are pure allegations not supported by evidence. They are just attempts at disrupting the process, nothing more.
Turley is correct in calling for elections investigations and saying that the public needs to know what happened. Unlike the economic world of transactions where our knowledge of all of the reasons for a price must give way to trust of the market spontaneous order, elections require the transparency of at least a capability of knowing what happened if one is interested. Election results, like laws and judicial decisions require as much knowledge, clarity and publicity as possible. We cannot know at the beginning of the investigations , indeed its tough to even form a compelling belief but the evidence we have so far surely warrants the effort to find out. Many people rightly fear the situation where future elections are permanently shrouded in mystery having only reported results counting as evidence.