Below is my column in The Hill on the challenges to the presidential election and moving beyond heated allegations to hard evidence in the filings. I have expressed skepticism over the sweeping claims of fraud or that the current margins could be overcome with anything other than systemic flaws in the authentication of ballots. However, the demand for clear evidence of systemic violations after only a couple days of the tabulation stage is bizarre. We would not necessarily have such evidence, which is largely held by election officials. As expected, we have a series of localized affidavits and allegations of intentional fraud. Yet, network analysts were dismissing any and all allegations within the first 24 hours, as tabulations were continuing. It is like saying that a patient has a low white blood cell level but insisting on stopping testing if you cannot conclusively say that there is cancer. These initial allegations may or may not be indicative of a more systemic problem. There is no reason to presume fraud but also no reason to demand concessions before we look at these allegations, particularly with the addition of sworn statements and at least one computer problem resulting in loss of thousands of Trump votes in Michigan. Half of this country voted for Trump and it is not much for them to ask for a review of the challenges — a right that the Democrats would be demanding if the positions in this close election were reversed. Moreover, those voters can be understandably skeptical to hear these instant dismissals from networks, which previously predicted a sweeping victory for Biden and the Democrats. Even if, as expected, these allegations are rejected, it is important for this country to have a full and open consideration of these claims and the underlying evidence.
Just when you thought the 2020 election could not be more bizarre, a hearing in Las Vegas on challenges by the Trump campaign went full Monty Python. After days of charges of fraud, we are finally at that “bring out your dead” moment from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The Trump campaign has been claiming that ballots have been “cast on behalf of deceased voters” as well as thousands of ineligible voters in Nevada, and federal judge Andrew Gordon demanded the names. When no evidence was given, Gordon refused to intervene last night.
In the movie, two men try to toss a protesting old man on a death cart during the Black Plague. When the driver objects that the man is not dead, the thugs insist “he will be soon” and ask the driver to “hang around a couple of minutes.” After trying to convince the driver to wait, they just club him and throw him on the pile. As shown by Gordon, when it comes to elections, judges do not “hang around” for a bit. In federal court, you bring out your dead or your case is dead.
If the Trump campaign is premature in claiming a deceased electorate, the Biden campaign is premature in claiming Donald Trump is deceased in the race. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi referred to him in the past tense and Joe Biden as president elect. Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney called on the president to “put his big boy pants on” and concede like Al Gore even after officials said they were still counting votes.
Kenney appeared to have blocked out any memory of the 2000 election, when Gore challenged the results and fueled an intense battle. Trump is simply doing what Gore did. With George Bush leading in Florida by under 1,800 votes, his campaign sent him to claim victory and create the image of president elect. When Democrats challenged the results and filed lawsuits demanding recounts, they were viewed as fighting the will of the people. A meticulous recount led to a change of around 900 votes before the election was sent to a close with the Supreme Court ruling.
What came next is often overlooked. Several studies found Gore likely won Florida, but Bush was already sworn in as president. Democrats claimed that Bush was “illegitimate” and that the Supreme Court should not have ended the recount. As is often the case in our politics, the parties are now on different sides of the same issue. The consistent element is that the parties support the process to the extent that it is demonstrably in their favor. Trump appears to trust it when he is ahead but views any deficiency of votes as fraudulent, and Democrats want every vote included but not recounted.
We are finishing only the second of four stages in an election for president. After the voting stage, states began the tabulation stage. We will soon enter the canvass stage, in which local districts confirm their counts and face challenges or recounts. Finally, there is the certification stage, in which final challenges can be raised. In other words, Trump is not deceased yet. Biden has reason to claim his lead as the odds are heavily against Trump. One or two states could flip on a “Hail Mary” challenge. But Trump needs four of those to win in a feat that would hyperventilate Aaron Rogers.
Yet the public should welcome close scrutiny of these swing states. There are valid reasons to examine the figures based on the many unknowns in a new kind of election. The outcome will be determined by millions of mailed ballots in various states, some of which have never used such mailed ballots to this magnitude, and legitimate concerns were raised before the election.
States used rolls that are notoriously out of date and inaccurate. Some changed rules governing signature authentication or are accused of reducing the discrimination levels for machine authentication. In Nevada, the Trump campaign alleged that thousands of votes were cast from out of state and ballots were sent to dead voters. We cannot judge the merits of these claims until we see the evidence. It is difficult to see any problems without greater access to the ballots and the records of tabulation.
Just as some of us remain skeptical of such claims of fraud, it seems as implausible that this untested form of voting was used across the country without major glitches. Officials in cities like Detroit and Philadelphia with histories of election violations said the counts of mailed ballots were almost flawless, a claim difficult to rebut without review.
We need a review of counts in critical states to resolve a crisis of faith. A recent survey found that almost half of Americans lack confidence their ballots will be counted fairly. A Harvard study also found that only half of young black voters believe their ballots are even counted. This lack of faith in the electoral process has been fueled by the shift to mailed ballots but builds on growing distrust of our political system.
Past elections for president faced controversies over faithless electors who changed their votes after an election. The Supreme Court dealt with a number of such faithless electors from the 2016 election and resolved that states can force them to cast their votes in line with the wishes of voters. But this could be the year of faithless voters rather than faithless electors. We lost faith in our political system. Our leaders fueled doubts as Trump claimed the election was stolen, Democrats accused him of the same with his challenges, and Pelosi denounced Justice Amy Coney Barrett as an illegitimate.
We neither listen to nor trust each other anymore. Almost half the country voted for Trump, even after years of negative media coverage. We need neither concessions of defeat nor declarations of victory. We need transparency so that whoever is the next president can govern with legitimacy. This is why the involvement of the courts is not a bad thing. If nothing else, a judge can decline to do a post mortem on a living candidate on the same grounds stated by the driver who said, “I cannot take him like this. It is against regulations.”
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
Planning for a voting system in which VOTERS and CANDIDATES can have confidence should be starting now! There are data scientists and experts. There are data security scientists and experts. Let them analyze the voting systems that are now used in a majority of states. We should revert back to a time when voting in person on the constitutionally appointed day is common, and mail-in and early voting is rare. (IMHO there should not be any in-person early voting further out from voting day than a week.) Use the results of the decennial census to begin the task of cleaning the registries of voters. The Constitution grants these responsibilities to the states, as I understand it. Constitutional scholars and judges should be part of this process. They should determine which standards can be set by a representative federal body, and which must be left to the states. All of the discussion and determinations about fixing this system must stream on C-Span and similar unbiased tools. This needs to be done when no candidates or parties have an immediate interest in the outcome. It can begin even while the current mess is being sorted out.
I am not an expert. I can’t fix it, and perhaps even in my general description I have erred. But we have to fix it. I truly believe that any person or party who refuses an endeavor such as this no longer desires to have a functional representative democracy. We have two years to fix this. Please…
merighen, we’ve never seen your name before. Just popped out of nowhere?
I’m new as a commenter here, but long have respected Turley and enjoy reading his commentary. I’m “decoupling” from consolidators for awhile, and following individual bloggers I trust. And while I’m unlikely to be a frequent commenter, I care deeply about issues that affect the fundamental foundations of what binds together all of us in this country. I can be very partisan, but am unlikely to comment on those kinds of arguments. I hope that was meant as a welcome message… 😉
I submitted a reply but not sure if it “took”. If not, I’ll re-introduce myself…
Dear Mr. Anonymous:
Your tireless efforts to halt the spread of dangerous misinformation is an inspiration to Party members everywhere. Your work on behalf of the Party has not gone unnoticed!
Is the 2020 election over? I’m in doubt that the results will be accepted by a great many in the Country. Everyday there were reports of ballot counting fraud in numerous states. Whether there was or is current proof is hard to determine without the cooperation of the State Election Authorities which apparently is not forthcoming voluntarily. Is an investigation warranted into the fraud allegations, and, who would be the authority to conduct the investigations? Can the investigators’ be trusted? This should be adjudicated without haste and a final determination rendered. Should an investigation be forthcoming I would hope that the Oligarchs, Plutocrats’ (dark money), Wall Street, Bankers, Bureaucrats and foreign Governments assets would be included in determining what impact they had on the election results and did they commit fraud. —————– Who stood to benefit from change of the Presidency? Was it the working class of America? I think not, the Democrats’ have shown time and again their disdain for the working class. Examples of their disdain; open borders, increased Visa’s for replacement workers, displaced manufacturing, just to name a few. The Tech Barons, more than likely considering their servile like existence to the China markets? The NATO members who have constantly relied on America to fund operations? Maybe it could be Wall Street, who is the largest benefactor to the Democrat party. Bureaucrats both State and Federal who exist on increased taxation? Or, Democratic cities and states that face massive debt loads from mismanagement? World Health Organization/World Trade Organization, both United Nations organizations which have been shown to disfavor America? The list could go on and on, but one thing is clear, they do not stand with or for the average American.—————— Some of the commenter’s on this thread say accept the results and move on and further say as Rodney King said “Why can’t we all get alone” which I’ve find humorous considering the past four years history. Now that we control two chambers of government we want you to hold out a hand and be conciliatory to our demands they say. I pray the Republican Party resists the socialist tendencies of the Democrats’ and keeps America on the path of America First.
Please keep posting materials Just. Like. This. You only missed accusing the Pope of pedophilia from winning the google-eyed, wackjob, wingnut superfecta. I have faith that you can do better. Perhaps you can pull the tried-and-true BENGHAZI! or HUNTER’S LAPTOP out from under your tinfoil hat to bring in the win. Pro Tip: yes, that really is just a Comcast truck parked across the street; or not…
this is to georgie w
you all know who this is from…
Turley: you need to stop feeding the beast by attempting to give credibility to Trump’s narcissism. He was predicted to lose, so even before Election Day, he announced there would be widespread cheating. When the ballot counting proceeded exactly as was predicted: that Election-Day in-person voting results would give Trump the edge, but that absentee and mail-in ballots would heavily favor Biden, Trump started panicking when what he thought was his “lead” began to evaporate as mail ballots results were being tabulated. That is exactly what was predicted to happen. Trump started demanding that ballot counting stop because his tender ego couldn’t stand the specter of future vainglory rallies, Inaugural Balls and inaugural parades go up in smoke. He started calling governors in Republican states, demanding that they do something to stop mail in ballots from being processed and counted. That is sad, indeed. So, as he said he would, the lawsuits were filed–facts and evidence be damned. We still don’t have final tabulations, and the AP did not declare Biden-Harris as winners until it was clear that Trump had no path.
Turley seems to be saying that a federal judge was wrong to demand proof that dead people were voting, or, in other words, Trump can just file a lawsuit claiming dead people’s identities were used to vote illegally with no evidence. When proof was demanded, there was none, so where in federal and state law, does it say someone can make up facts, file a lawsuit and seek relief, hoping that evidence will somehow turn up later on? Where in the law does it say that a judge has to allow a lawsuit to continue that was frivolous to begin with, or that dismissal can be delayed to see whether some “evidence” can be ginned up to support raw allegations?
Half of this country did NOT for Trump. He lost the popular vote by more than 4 million votes–a larger margin by which he lost the popular vote the first time, and all polls, including those reported by Fox, predicted he would lose. The final tally isn’t in yet, but the pollsters may not have been off by much. Turley is also wrong to try to compare Trump’s loss to Al Gore’s election. In Gore’s case, there was just one state involved–Florida. Bush, with the help of briefing by John Roberts, Bret Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett, got the recount stopped, even though there were only 1800 votes separating the 2 candidates. Turns out, Gore won the popular vote, and may have also won Florida. In Trump’s case, he is losing in multiple states by a much larger number of votes than Gore was in Florida in 2000.
As for the out of state voters in Nevada and elsewhere: many casino workers lost their jobs due to the pandemic. Las Vegas depends on the hospitality and gaming industries, and many workers may have had to leave the state temporarily to stay with friends and relatives because they couldn’t afford their rent. They are still legal residents of Nevada if they did not intend to permanently change their residence, and had every right to vote by mail. Another argument without merit.
Trump is now planning to hold more vainglory rallies to air his grievances and to stoke up the faithful, some of whom might resort to violence. They are already showing up at ballot counting places, demanding to be let inside, waving Trump flags, nitpicking and putting bad motivation to every move that poll workers are making. There are Republicans and Democrats at all of these facilities–there is no cheating going on. When, in American history have there ever been post-election rallies? Then, again, when in American history, has there been a malignant narcissist with a tender ego who is a chronic, habitual liar, and whose psyche relies on praise and adulation? Do the American people have to pay for Trump’s plane ride to these rallies, and for security, when the motivation is his mental illness?
So, we know Trump has emotional health issues, but where are the Republicans? Why aren’t more of them standing up to this nonsense for the good of the nation? There is no merit to Trump’s claims of widespread fraud, and he wasn’t cheated out of anything. What he is doing, driven by his massive ego, is sowing doubt and discord, and that’s bad for America. He will never concede. America is better than Trump.
You make many good arguments, Natacha, for Turley’s continued right-wing riot control in sympathy with AG Barr. A disappointed, disgruntled and skeptical right should take its stress out on the courts, not the police. Turley helps channel the Trump electorate in that direction.
Are Democrats taking the implausible position there were NO illegal votes cast in this election? Including by DACA recipients and undocumented immigrants? Or do they instead argue that a plausible illegal vote margin is so miniscule it simply is not enough to warrant further investigation?
There is no single position from the tens of millions of Democrats in the country, nor should anyone expect one. When you have that many people, you should expect a variety of opinions.
Here’s mine: if Trump files suit alleging voter fraud, he has the burden of proof to demonstrate voter fraud. If he cannot, then it’s a frivolous suit. Either way, it’s unlikely that there are enough votes that should be thrown out that it would affect who has won in any of the contested states.
Were any votes cast illegally? Odds are that a small number of people throughout the political spectrum cast votes that are illegal. For some of those, the person casting the vote might have been knowingly breaking the law, and for others, the person might have mistakenly believed that it was a legal vote. For example, perhaps the person was an ex-felon in FL who thought he’d paid all of the money he owed, but it turns out that he still owed some money, which would make him ineligible to vote.
But Trump should not be filing frivolous lawsuits, and AFAIK, no judge has ever ruled in his favor on voter fraud, and he’s been alleging voter fraud for years, so we should all take his allegations with a mountain of salt.
Sounds like a balanced opinion. Thanks.
The disappointed Trump voters should take their anger out on the true enemy, the BILLIONAIRE CLASS..
there should be a single minded hate on them and a sharp rhetorical attack on their steppinfetchits wherever they are to be found. All political and social organizing should be to accrete enough power of every kind to take revenge on them and change our system so that one day no group of billionaires can control the Republic like their plaything again
not until they are destroyed will we be free.
elections are the most useful tool of the plutocracy from day one. they can always throw enough money around to make sure nobody unifies against them. the fact that the supposed party of “Socialism” the Democrats are so entirely not-socialist and utterly funded to the gills by a long list of billionaires, and the unexpected embrace of Trumpian Republicanism by the workers, is proof positive that billionaires are always one step ahead
Not until there is a sufficiently clear political and social aim of expropriating them and dramatically changing our political system to neutralize their power, will there be any genuine progress, and if it stops at half measures short of the destruction of the billionaire class, will the job be done
it’s quite amusing and ironic how over time, American billionaires have been so successful at steering their enemies’ course. Take for example the USSR. A supposed foe at the start, but would not exist had not Wall Street firm Kuhn and Loeb been so eager to underwrite the rivals of the Tsar, the Japanese government at war with him, the Kerensky government, and then even courted Trotsky, though they go to a lot of pains today to claim otherwise. Then we can see how others among the richest Americans kept a close friendship with them over decades, such as Armand Hammer, free to operate his factories in the USSR even at the height of the Cold War. The USSR, supposed enemies of the capitalists, but in fact funded by them! The the USSR as boogeyman, was the reason for a massive expansion of United States military and economic power that’s lead it to a budgetary posture King Midas would envy! And one that’s used to generate more billions for the billionaire class, by the minute.
Kind of like Mr Soros today, tossing his billions around to various apparently left wing outfits, which remain so loyal to his dictates! And then more to the Democratic party, which also serves his whims! Full spectrum dominance by political and “nonprofit” donations is their constant aim and they ever more succeed, unchallenged by the one thing they fear, popular unity and what they might fairly expect would come with it, expropriation and their final endings
Today, the American billionaires, who grew fat on several decades of slave labor run by CCP bosses China, got rid of the roadblock to ever more profits, Trump! Unexpected win, swept aside in 2020, year of the Rat, and year of the worst social engineering schemes ever seen in history
But amidst this, American workers seem yet to fear socialism, identifying it with the incompetence of regimes such as Venezuela. Well, understand this. Socialism is in every modern nation to a degree! It is mostly not a question of socialism, it is a question only of will socialism benefit the workers, ie, the people, or the billionaires? Because no nation will ever be free if its billionaire class can control electoral outcomes with their money. And the only tool which can effectively strip billionaires of their power, is guess what, socialism! Employed by the nations, nation by nation, against their corrupt oligarchs.
So quit worrying about boogeyman labels, like marxism, fascism, extremism, authoritarianism etc. These are all just canards to stop the people from unifying effectively against the billionaire class. These are all a “forbidden zone” of politics which actually holds the key to national freedom from billionaire class domination.
Now if nobody likes this post, good! Then I have done my job. It’s necessary for people to be jolted in order to think outside the box because the box is a mental jail that stops you from coming to the necessary conclusions needed to liberate yourself from the prison.
–Saloth Sar
You are jesting I’m sure. If you think the American people who voted for President Trump will ever, ever accept this, your crazy in the head!!!. As Roger Kimbal of American Great says, there was a reason Joe Biden hid in his basement because he knew the fix was in!!! Do you really thing the American people are that stupid to believe he won when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania dumped 100,000’s votes at 3:00 AM all for Joe Biden. Also, why would Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada block poll workers??? Ken Starr says the Pennsylvania Three -Day Ballot Deadline is a “Constitutional Travesty” There are so many, many witnesses coming forward signing affidavits about what they have observed. An Election Official in Michigan said they were done election day, when she left President Trump had crushed it. She is saying President Trump needs to fight this and not concede!! Joe BiIf you think the American people who voted for President Trump will ever, ever accept this, your crazy in the head!!!. There was a reason Joe Biden hid in his basement because he knew the fix was in!!! Do you really thing the American people are that stupid to believe he won when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania dumped 100,000’s votes at 3:00 AM all for Joe Biden. Do you really think we are that stupid that we believe that??????? Joe Biden’s interview where he stated that he has a great Voter Fraud Organization in place, better than Obama’s was!! He admitted that they were ready for the election and had all the Apparatus in place to pull off this Fraud off. Which is what we are watching being played out before our eyes in living color!!!
Trump tweets: “I am pleased to announce that Christopher C. Miller, the highly respected Director of the National Counterterrorism Center (unanimously confirmed by the Senate), will be Acting Secretary of Defense, effective immediately…Chris will do a GREAT job! Mark Esper has been terminated. I would like to thank him for his service.”
https://www.wspa.com/news/national/trump-fires-defense-secretary-esper-replaces-him-with-christopher-miller-counterterrorism-head/
“WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump has fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper, a stunning and unprecedented move at a time of national uncertainty about the outcome of Trump’s bid for a second term. The move could be seen as unsettling for the Pentagon and a source of concern for international allies and partners.”
“It is the first time in the modern era that a president seeking reelection has removed his Pentagon chief after Election Day. Presidents who win reelection often replace Cabinet members, including the secretary of defense, but losing presidents have kept their Pentagon chiefs in place until Inauguration Day to preserve stability in the name of national security.”
According to Steve Vladeck (UT Austin law prof): “There’s currently a Senate-confirmed Deputy Secretary of Defense — David Norquist. Under 10 U.S.C. § 132(b), *he* is supposed to become Acting Secretary in the event of a vacancy. Unless Trump fired him, too.
“To be clear, *if* the Federal Vacancies Reform Act allows the President to appoint someone else as Acting Secretary notwithstanding § 132(b), Miller is a valid choice (because of his Senate confirmation). But it’s not at all obvious that the FVRA *does* override the DoD statute.
“The last time this came up, Trump named as Acting Secretary Patrick Shanahan (who was already serving as the Deputy Secretary), which avoided the issue: …
“And not for nothing, but he’s also ignoring the currently governing Executive Order on DoD succession, which likewise puts the Deputy Secretary first: …
“Finally, as @jgeltzer points out, Miller isn’t eligible to be *Secretary* of Defense because he hasn’t been retired from the military for seven years. He can still be “Acting” if otherwise permissible, but yet another reason why this is messed up.”
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1325861310417002496
Thanks for the heads up.
You’re welcome. Vladeck is a thoughtful law prof., has argued cases in front of SCOTUS multiple times, his areas of expertise include national security / military / counterterrorism issues. He’s one of the law profs whose Twitter feeds I read to learn about legal issues.
The 4:08pm comment is from me, CommitToHonestDiscussion.
The communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) must be tickled “Pinko.”
The communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) called up their Dear Leader, General Secretary Xi, and requested, in an election year, the deployment of the “China Flu, 2020” from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, as they were facing an inexorable landslide election victory by President Trump and were in desperate need of a rationale to impose their demonstrably unconstitutional and corrupt “mail-in ballot” strategy.
Subsequent to deployment of the “China Flu, 2020,” the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) maximized their “scare tactics” and commenced a terror campaign against the American electorate.
President Trump acted decisively against the communist-induced (liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat, RINO) “China Flu, 2020” and was roundly criticized for his efforts by the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs).
President Trump and his family contracted and recovered from the “China Flu, 2020,” demonstrating that the country should have ignored the terror campaign and moved forward while vigorously protecting the vulnerable.
Now that President Trump has produced an, apparently, 90% effective vaccine, the criminal, false, fraudulent and self-proclaimed “president elect” claims credit.
The “Pinkos” have tickled themselves.
Lindsey Graham Emerges As Most-Outspoken-Trump-Dead-Ender
But His Arguments Overlook Record Turnout And Some Republican Gains
Within the Republican Party elite, few have been as adamant that widespread fraud is costing President Trump the election than Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.). And he’s using highly conspiratorial language to try to bring the rest of his party along with him.
“If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again,” Graham said Sunday on Fox News Channel.
That’s a strong statement worth analyzing, because it reflects where the Trumpian wing of the Republican Party stands on this election. Graham was saying that mail balloting probably led to voting irregularities and fraud on a scale that swayed the election. And he warned that if the party doesn’t do something about it, it will be on the losing side of elections going forward.
Except nearly every aspect of what he’s arguing is either unproven or outright false.
There is no evidence of widespread fraud, despite the Trump campaign desperately trying to find some. And Republicans had a stronger-than-expected showing in these elections because turnout was higher. Trump won more votes than he did in 2016, Republicans flipped more House seats than Democrats, and Republicans may keep the Senate. Graham won his own competitive reelection by much more than polls suggested he would.
That’s why it’s so confusing when Graham argues that the Republican Party needs to “challenge and change” the U.S. election system to keep winning.
Even without the 2020 election as evidence of the strength of the Republican Party brand when voting breaks record levels, the system by which Americans elect presidents benefits Republicans over Democrats. The electoral college gives less-populous, more-conservative states greater sway than they would have with a national popular vote. Democrats did win the White House this time, but they’ve lost it in many other recent elections, despite receiving more votes nationally than Republicans.
Edited from: “Lindsey Graham’s Curious And Conspiritorial Argument For Wh Trump Should Fight Election Results”
Today’s Washington Post
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
KEY PASSAGE FROM ABOVE:
“Republicans had a stronger-than-expected showing in these elections because turnout was higher. Trump won more votes than he did in 2016, Republicans flipped more House seats than Democrats, and Republicans may keep the Senate. Graham won his own competitive reelection by much more than polls suggested he would”.
*************
If a Republican were to step outside the rightwing bubble, the results of this election were really not that bad. Despite his gross mishandling of the pandemic, Trump did amazingly well. Jimmy Carter would have envied such a modest defeat. What’s more, Democrats actually ‘lost’ seats in the House.
Trump signaled months ago that he would never concede defeat. His sour apple attitude was largely expected. But in supporting Trump’s scorched-earth position, Republicans are expressing a sense of entitlement. Like they’re ‘entitled’ to the White House regardless of Popular Vote.
Speaking of the Popular Vote, on Monday morning Biden leads by 4.4 million. That’s roughly the population of an average state.
Biden should not pony up to the gang of four. The voters will think he is a hoare.
Tony Heller just weighed in: https://youtu.be/FAv6oh4KRDY
As a software designer the information I have is that the software allows the clerk to modify anything with an audit trail. It is an easy hack to disable the audit trail, make the change, remove the hack.
No “software glitch” shifts votes from one candidate to another. The glitch is that there can be a change with no record of who changed it nor why.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”
– William Casey, CIA Director
Spread the links on exposing the Commies/Bidens, etc. 5th Coup attempt our republic, their vote fraud.
https://www.infowars.com/show/
The election is not “done” until the states each certify their votes. NONE have done so, yet.
Votes are still being counted
Moreover, it is the electoral college which determines the winner, which does not vote until December 15
Moreover, election challenges and proof of fraud and improper counting have been filed
We see here how Democrat cheerleaders could care less about how our system works when they comment. Now, they are just going to heap derision on their adversaries. In the hopes Republicans will shrivel up and go away
There are major problems with the vote. Here are more details from data science
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/it-defies-logic-scientist-finds-telltale-signs-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot
Perhaps the mass media will not report on that. Likely, they KNOW there was fraud, because they are part of it.
They are a propaganda machine, owned by billionaire enemies of the people, not “news”
Billionaire class bootlickers will here show their face, denying the fraud, insulting the working people who voted Trump, etc.,
Saloth Sar
Kurtz, even ‘if’ Trump could somehow litigate a second Electoral-College-Only ‘victory’, it would be toxic to the country. Trump’s 2016 ‘victory’ was freakish enough. Two freakish ‘victories’ would be too much; not just for America but to our allies as well.
Mr Kurtz, you’re the one who has been posting the Saloth Sar comments?!
At least we now know that you use a sock account.
Voter fraud! Voter fraud!
Ain’t no cities with voter fraud!
Clear across this great big land.
There ain’t no place for voter fraud!
—
Cept maybe in DC.
“The first person Rudy Giuliani, the attorney for President Donald Trump, called up as a witness to baseless allegations of vote counting shenanigans in Philadelphia during a press conference last week is a sex offender who for years has been a perennial candidate in New Jersey. … “I started watching it and all of a sudden I was like, ‘there’s New Jersey’s perennial candidate claiming to live in Philadelphia and Giuliani claiming him to be a poll watcher and Philadelphia resident,” Trenton Mayor Reed Gusciora said in a phone interview.”
https://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2020/11/09/man-featured-at-giuliani-press-conference-is-a-sex-offender-1335241
Bet his sex offender status is why they held the press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, next to Fantasy Island Adult Books and across the street from the Delaware Valley Cremation Center. Convicted sex offenders can’t be within a few miles of a school.
Dear Mr. Anonymous:
Thank you for your patriotic efforts to combat the spread of misinformation, promote Party unity, and lay the groundwork for lasting change. Your work on behalf of the Party has not gone unnoticed.
Anonymous, is that why a ‘landscaping’ business was chosen as the venue? ..How funny..! I wondered about that location.
Now that a Biden administration will likely be moving into the Oval, the DC press can relax and go back to their ‘lite’ schedule of simply being adoring sycophants for a preferred Democratic administartion.
They won’t have to “fact check” so much, that’s for sure. Or correcting outright lies and disinformation.
You are so naive.
PUTIN STANDS BY TRUMP
As world leaders congratulate Democrat Joe Biden for his projected victory in the U.S. presidential election, Russia’s decision not to do so speaks volumes.
Analysts noted that while many European leaders congratulated Biden, expressing a desire to renew erstwhile tense relations with the U.S. and work constructively with the new administration, Russia did not comment on the projected win for Biden, with no message of congratulations coming from President Vladimir Putin this weekend.
It marks a stark change from 2016 when the Kremlin rushed to congratulate Trump on his victory.
Instead, on Monday, the Kremlin issued a cautious statement, with spokesman Dmitry Peskov saying that it would await the official results of the election before commenting on the outcome, and that it had noted Trump’s announcement of legal processes related to the vote.
Speaking to reporters, Peskov added that Putin had repeatedly said he was ready to work with any U.S. leader, Reuters reported, and that Russia hoped it could establish dialog with the new U.S. administration and find a way to normalize relations.
Edited From: “As Putin Fails To Congratulate Biden, Experts Predict What The Result Means For U.S. – Russia Relations”
CNBC, 11/9/20
Putin got what he wanted, a split in the American republic. Trump granted Putin’s dreams and then some.
No, Putin is following correct diplomatic procedure. You wait for the official results, unless, of course, you helped engineer the coup.
It used to be normal practice. Guess not so much now.
Old Guy, Putin is demonstrating to the world that he was Trump’s sponsor all along. And ‘yes’, Biden will remember the snub. When Putin finally decides to congratulate, some staffer will take the call and say Biden is too busy to talk.
Very entertaining!
The Mueller report, written by Democrats, could not find any evidence of what you allege, so I assume you are auditioning for SNL?
Following diplomatic procedure is not a snub, or do you think Mexico is snubbing Biden too?
Biden certainly can snub Putin, but that is not how geopolitics usually work, although it is how Hollywood and TV portray international relations. It is also how some of our world leaders have behaved in the recent past, with the result that China obtained an effective ally in Moscow, and Ukraine is now a divided country, but neither the US nor the EU are the better for it.
Back in the 1970s, the Soviets could have run over Europe in three weeks, at least that was the estimate of the guys in army intelligence that I knew. But they did not do so for a great many reasons, including the most important — they had no desire to start a nuclear exchange which would have left both sides devastated and the world a basket case.
After Gorbachev destroyed the USSR in his efforts to reform it, we had a golden opportunity to reshape the world during the 1990s. Alas, we simply sought to extend our influence, and by doing so we created an enemy of Russia, which need not have happened, and we created a powerful China, a chicken which is coming home to roost, so you might want to master Mandarin.
If you are just going to comment simply to be rude, that’s fine, but your comment is not only rude, it is not helpful. If Biden supporters are all like you, I wish you the best of luck bringing the country back together. Achieving that takes diplomatic skills, which are not usually found in the skill set of organizations like Antifa or people who think insulting someone is debating.
Old Guy, Mueller obtained 37 indictments and 7 convictions. But in the rightwing bubble, 7 convictions is ‘nothing’.
When a Special Counsel is appointed to investigate the Biden scandals, in all fairness, it must be staffed entirely by Republican partisans, just as the Mueller team was staffed entirely of partisan unethical Democrats.
Well than, you can be happy to read the Senate Intel Comm Report documenting Trump campaign and Russian collusion. It is a Republican majority committee.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
Not a single conviction for collusion with Russia, no? But collusion is not a crime, so there could not be, could there?
Flynn was convicted of a process crime, but only because the prosecutors suppressed evidence and the FBI appears to have acted unethically, so you’re down to 6 convictions.
Manafort was just a shady guy who got caught; nothing to do with the campaign; down to 5.
His partner, ditto; down to 4.
Are you counting Cohen? Seriously? Down to 3.
Stone? Oh, my, for a silly comment?! Down to 2.
Who am I missing? So far there is no there there.
As for indictments, those go a dime a dozen. Ham sandwich anybody?
Yet none of the people who actually conspired to interfere in the elections and who actually sought to undermine a legitimately elected administration have been indicted or sentenced. Okay, one low-level lawyers. Still, it makes you wonder whether a deep state might actually exist.
The Mueller probe appears to have been intended to undermine a legitimately elected President. It had to come up empty because it was based on a fraulent dossier paid for by the DNC, but it crippled Trump’s administration, and that was not only bad for Trump, it was bad for the country and the integrity of the media, which pushed conspiracy theories for four years. So instead of new infrastructure, we got conspiracy theories and character assassination by activists pretending to be journalists.
I am not right wing, nor do I live in a bubble. But I remember when the Democratic Party was the party of the workers, not the perpetually offended, and people were interested in improving the entire society, not just cheering on their tribe.
BTW, I hope Trump pardons both Snowden and Assange before he leave office, because Biden sure won’t.
The Mueller report did not clear the Trump campaign of criminal charges. It stated it lacked sufficient evidence for criminal conspiracy charges and them listed 10 instances of obstruction of justice by Trump himself and noted the lack of cooperation by him and other campaign officials.
The supposed “Deep State” told voters 2 weeks before the 2016 election that Hillary was being investogated by the FBI. The Trump campaign was also being investigated by the FBI at that time but the “Deep State” kept that campaign killing fact a secret from voters.
You better read the Senate Intel Comm report. Manafort – the campaign manager – was feeding information to a Russian agent, Here’s a quote from their report:
“….The Committee found that Manafort’s presence on the Campaign at;td proximity to
Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and
acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign. Taken as a whole, Manafort’s highlevel access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the
Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik and associates of Oleg Deripaska,
represented a grave counterintelligence threat.
The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the Russian
effort to hack computer networks and accounts affiliated with the Democratic Party and leak
information damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign for president. Moscow’s intent was
to harm the Clinton Campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the
Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the
U.S. democratic process.
Wiki-leaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian
influence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence
effort. The Committee found significant indications that (REDACTED)
At the time of the first WikiLeaks releases, the U.S. Government had not yet declared WikiLeaks a hostile
organization and many treated it as a journalistic entity.
(U) While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump
Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those leaks to aid Trump’s electoral
prospects. Staff on the Trump Campaign sought advance notice about WikiLeaks releases,
created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following
thdr release, and encouraged further leaks. The Trump Campaign publicly undermined the
attribution of the hack-and-leak campaign to Russia and was indifferent to whether it and
WikiLeaks were furthering a Russian election interference effort. The Committee found no
evidence that Campaign officials received an authoritative government notification that the hack
was perpetrated by the Russian government before October 7, 2016, when the ODNI and DHS
issued a joint statement to that effect. However, the Campaign was aware of the extensive media
reporting and other private sector attribution of the hack to Russian actors prior to that point.
(U) Trump and senior Campaign offici.als sought to obtain advance information about
WikiLeaks’s planned releases through Roger Stone. At their direction, Stone took action to gain
inside knowledge for the Campaign and shared his purported knowledge directly with Trump
and senior Campaign offictals on multiple occasions. Trump and the Campaign believed that
Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone’s information suggested more
releases would be forthcoming. The Committee could not reliably determine the extent.of
authentic, non-public knowledge about WikiLeaks that Stone obtained and shared with the
Campaign…..”
Old guy, not only did Mueller Report document numerous acts of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but the recently released GOP led Senate Intel Comm report did as well. You might want to review it and update your opinions, which are apparently nased on “big lie” repetitions of falsehoods by Trump and his supporters.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
Joe, I could point out that prosecutors do not exonerate, they either recommend prosecution or they don’t.
You cannot obstruct justice if no crime is involved, and none was.
Mueller did not indict because there was not enough evidence to support a case.
Taking one side of a committee’s report is, well, misleading.
You might want to read the other side.
Everything you list here is innuendo and suggestion; no evidence, no proof.
This conversation is four years old now, and the Democrats have never mustered enough evidence to do anything but make baseless accusations.
We now know who Steele’s sources were and who paid for the dossier. It was a sham.
We also know that Mueller found no basis to indict, so the obstruction innuendoes are baseless.
End of story. You can believe what you wish.
I choose to believe what can be verified.
Old guy, Mueller was asked at the hearing he attended if the report exonerated Trump – Trump made the claim that it did – and said it did not and that as the report, they failed to find sufficient evidence and were hindered by a non-cooperative campaign.
The republican led committee report confirms and further documents the acts of collusion between the campaign and the Riussians.
Joe, we might add that Trump ordered Donald McGhan not to testify. Yet it is widely believed McGhan could have testified to obstruction of justice by Trump.
And ‘why’ is old guy dismissing the convictions of Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen and Roger Stone? All three are highly dubious characters typical of those in Trump’s orbit.
Old guy:
Of course you can obstruct justice without an underlying crime. That’s why Martha Stewart went to jail. She was cleared on the fraud count, but convicted of obstruction. Just like you can be guilty of perjury without an underlying crime.
An old guy –
No one waited for official results before congratulating Trump in 2016.
The President of Mexico said the same….he would wait for the official certification before issuing a congrats.
And just like that, all the Biden family graft and corruption and hideous selling out of America to China and everywhere else they could greedily and shamelessly cash-in on selling political access and influence, just gets disappeared right down the memory hole….with the coordinated efforts of Big Media and Big Tech which we know are all in the bag for Biden and the Democrats.
It’s a nice republic IF you can keep it.
Very important subject, Anonymous. De-escalation between nuclear armed powers is vital. Escalatory rhetoric is inherently suspect.
“It marks a stark change from 2016 when the Kremlin rushed to congratulate Trump on his victory.”
The election was not contested in 2016. The Biden team has no reason to view this as a snub.
“Instead, on Monday, the Kremlin issued a cautious statement, with spokesman Dmitry Peskov saying that it would await the official results of the election before commenting on the outcome, and that it had noted Trump’s announcement of legal processes related to the vote.”
Why isn’t it responsible for Putin to at least wait until US states certify their election results, under the circumstances?
Remember:
“MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Sunday that he saw nothing criminal in Hunter Biden’s past business ties with Ukraine or Russia, marking out his disagreement with one of Donald Trump’s attack lines in the U.S. presidential election.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-putin/putin-rejects-donald-trumps-criticism-of-biden-family-business-idUSKBN27A0TA?il=0
Jonathan: I dunno. I didn’t think there was anything to argue about over the election results. But you are playing into Trump’s narcissistic refusal to ever accept defeat by arguing he should not concede before “we look at these allegations [voter fraud], particularly, with the addition of sworn statements and at least on computer problem resulting in loss of thousands of votes in Michigan” In Nevada you argue the Trump campaign should be allowed tp present evidence of voter fraud through “access to the ballots and the records of tabulation”. You apparently think a judge should, in fact, “hang around” while Trump lawyers go on a fishing expedition for alleged cases of voter fraud or other significant irregularities. By your own admission that isn’t how the court system operates. You either come into court with evidence to back up your allegations or your case is thrown out. This is what happened in Nevada with the Trump campaign unfounded allegations. And this is why they threw a hail Mary pass to AG Barr hoping he would intervene. So far total silence from the DOJ.
When it comes to the electoral math the electoral college count is 290 to 214 for Biden and Trump respectively. If Biden wins Georgia that will give him 306 electoral votes. In order for Trump to overturn the election results he would have to prove that, in the absence of massive voter fraud or other irregularities, he actually won Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin which at this point seems just a pipe dream. If Trump prevails only in Georgia that gives him only 230 electoral votes. The math just doesn’t add up. You and Trump need a reality check!
Dennis, math never mattered to Donald Trump; neither does science. Trump has been unmoored from hard facts since Day 1 of his first campaign.
We still don’t know who Biden’s ‘handlers’ are. We know senile old Joe is not running the show, so who are his puppet masters pulling the strings?
You can count out the Russians. Who will Biden listen too, the voters.
Right-o. Old ‘middle class’ Joe “I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life” will listen to “the voters.” Of course he will, just like he has for 50 years. By the way, do you know who Joe’s puppet masters are?
You have been told before. Billionaire globalists pull Biden’s strings, who are “American” in name only
https://www.statista.com/chart/20944/2020-dem-candidates-billionaire-donors/
Billionaire string pullers are enemies of the people
Saloth Sar
WSJ today:
“LAS VEGAS—When Trump campaign attorneys released a list of 3,000 people who they said voted in Nevada after moving to another state, they said it was evidence of voter fraud in a closely contested battleground state.
Military families and Nevada elections officials point to something else: Service members who have legally voted in Nevada after being transferred elsewhere….”
Then…..We have more cases because we have more testing. Stop the testing…….Now…..Biden has more votes because we have more counting. Stop the counting.
Brilliant blog, Turley.
Trump tweets: “STOCK MARKET UP BIG, VACCINE COMING SOON. REPORT 90% EFFECTIVE. SUCH GREAT NEWS!”
Biden rolls out his Coronavirus Advisory Board, praises the Trump Administration’s Warp Speed accomplishment, and urges caution:
https://nypost.com/2020/11/09/joe-biden-praises-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough/
““I congratulate the brilliant women and men who helped produce this breakthrough and to give us such cause for hope,” Biden said in a statement, adding that he was informed Sunday night of the development.”
“Biden also expressed a note of caution, pointing out that more than 1,000 Americans are dying from the disease each day and the “end of the battle against COVID-19 is still months away.” In the meantime, he urged Americans to continue to follow guidelines offered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”
““The advisory board will help shape my approach to managing the surge in reported infections; ensuring vaccines are safe, effective, and distributed efficiently, equitably, and free; and protecting at-risk populations,” Biden said in a statement.”
Trump’s Coronavirus Task Force still has much work ahead of it. Hopefully there won’t still be a surge in reported infections by the time Biden takes office.
Not that much of the country’s hope for a second Trump term is entirely dead yet.
The Pfizer vaccine isn’t part of Warp Speed, and Biden didn’t praise the Trump Administration’s Warp Speed accomplishment.
Thank you for correcting that, Pfizer wanted nothing to do with Trump’s pretend task force.
Really? You don’t count this order as ‘support’? It pushed Pfizer’s share price up 4 percent the day it was announced.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-22/pfizer-biontech-receive-u-s-order-for-covid-vaccine
“The Pfizer vaccine isn’t part of Warp Speed…”
What am I missing?
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/07/22/us-government-engages-pfizer-produce-millions-doses-covid-19-vaccine.html
“…and Biden didn’t praise the Trump Administration’s Warp Speed accomplishment.”
Not directly, no, and that is unfortunate. But praise is implied.
“…While government figures welcomed the program’s progress, Kathrin Jansen, the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, sought to distance it from them. She told The New York Times: “We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
Jansen also told The Times that Pfizer was “never part” of Operation Warp Speed…..
“Pfizer has not taken federal money for R&D,” Sharon Castillo, a spokesperson for the company based in Washington, D.C., told Newsweek.”
Newsweek today
Two other things about the Pfizer vaccine: it requires 2 doses and the vaccine has to be kept at incredibly cold temperatures–way below zero, which might make it challenging to distribute and administer.
Thanks, Natacha.
“Deploying a vaccine will be a sprawling and complicated endeavor. One or more vaccines will need to be manufactured in mass quantities, distributed nationwide, and administered at many thousands of points of care. Vaccines with more than one dose will further complicate the process. Some of the top vaccine candidates must be stored at very cold temperatures, requiring special logistics infrastructure for cold chain distribution.2 It is essential that a plan is put in place that can be executed with all practicable speed and in an equitable and orderly manner.”
“It has been reported that nationwide distribution of a coronavirus vaccine, a responsibility that would typically be overseen by the CDC, will be a “joint venture” between CDC and the Department of Defense (DOD), with DOD handling logistics for manufacturing, kit compilation, and distribution, and CDC engaging with state and local public health organizations and conducting ongoing safety monitoring.3 We have questions about this deviation from existing vaccination systems, particularly since DOD will be engaged in an endeavor outside of its normal mission.”
https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/2020-09-08.CBM%20RK%20JC%20to%20HHS%20re%20Vaccine%20Priority.pdf
I appreciate the quotes and am perplexed by the apparent discrepancy, Joe Friday:
“Jansen also told The Times that Pfizer was “never part” of Operation Warp Speed…”
Should President Trump, VP Pence and Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller reassure the country otherwise? And also Biden?
From the July 2020 HHS document I cited above:
“The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense (DoD) today announced an agreement with U.S.-based Pfizer Inc. for large-scale production and nationwide delivery of 100 million doses of a COVID-19 vaccine in the United States following the vaccine’s successful manufacture and approval. The agreement also allows the U.S. government to acquire an additional 500 million doses.”
“The federal government will own the 100 million doses of vaccine initially produced as a result of this agreement, and Pfizer will deliver the doses in the United States if the product receives Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) or licensure from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), as outlined in FDA guidance, after completing demonstration of safety and efficacy in a large Phase 3 clinical trial.”
“By entering into this agreement now, a safe and effective vaccine can be shipped quickly if FDA grants EUA or licensure. This approach helps meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed goal to begin delivering 300 million of doses of safe and effective vaccine to the American people by the end of the year.”
“OWS [Operation Warp Speed] aims to begin delivery of 300 million doses of an FDA authorized, safe and effective vaccine for COVID-19 by the end of the year as part of a broader strategy to accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics. OWS is a partnership among components of the Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense, engaging with private firms and other federal agencies, and coordinating among existing HHS-wide efforts, including the NIH’s Accelerating COVID-19 Therapeutic Interventions and Vaccines (ACTIV) partnership, NIH’s Rapid Acceleration of Diagnostics (RADx) initiative, and work by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority within the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response.”
A contract to buy is not the same as help on R & D. Canada also has a contract to buy from Pfizer. Reportedly Pfizer was wary of the politicization of the administrations response.
“A contract to buy is not the same as help on R & D.”
$1.95 billion is a considerable incentive.
Still, somewhat hard to argue without more transparency:
https://qz.com/1930404/what-we-dont-know-about-pfizers-operation-warp-speed-deal/
JM: “$1.95 billion is a considerable incentive.”
Exactly right.
A “purchase order” is the fuel for R&D.
There has been a dangerous increase in the spread of misinformation convening the election results. These lies are being spread by agitators determined to sow discord and undermine Party unity. Those responsible will be held accountable.
-Party Secretariat for Truth and Reconciliation