Politico Poll: The Country Remains Sharply Divided On The Need For An Immediate Concession

In a vivid demonstration of our political divide, less than half of the country believes that President Donald Trump should immediately concede. Only a majority of Democrats (by a wide margin) holds that view. Once again, the poll shows the hardened silos of American politics. It also shows how the media has detached itself and its coverage from half of this country. As it did before the election, the media continues to coddle Biden in press conferences and frame the news in a familiar slant. Within 24 hours of the election being called for Biden, many in the media declared any challenges to the election to be “conspiracy theories” and demanded an immediate concession of defeat from Trump.  While I have expressed great skepticism over many challenges and I have been critical of the failure of the Administration to “ascertain” the election for Biden for weeks, I have maintained that it is important for these challenges to be heard and resolved if we have any hope to unify this country. While the media and many Democrats were correct in calling for “every vote to be counted,” they have opposed efforts to recount those votes or address whether they have been counted correctly.  Again, there is no evidence of systemic fraud or errors, but the overwhelming pressure in the media to stop the challenges after the calling of the election has only deepened the suspicion and divide in this country — as has the President’s own rhetoric on a stolen election.  A recount in Georgia has found the type of human error that we have previously discussed and thousands of uncounted votes. Yet, that has not stopped the attacks on anyone, including lawyers, who are seeking such reviews.

The poll shows how the little penetration and credibility the media now has with much of the public. Over half of the public still want to see the challenges resolved despite the steady drumbeat of the media to denounce any challenges or the need for them to be fully addressed in the courts. Indeed, some academics are comparing questioning Biden’s victory to “holocaust denial” or going to court as itself a form of fraud or abuse.

The new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows that 46 percent of registered voters think Trump should concede to Biden “right away.” That includes 72 percent of Democrats, 43 percent of independents surveyed and 17 percent of Republicans.

The polls shows 32 percent of registered voters who believe that Trump should concede the election “eventually if he is unable to back up” his mass fraud claims. Notably, 21 percent of Democratic respondents and 34 percent of independent respondents are believe that Trump should not immediately concede but do so after the challenges are heard and resolved. Most worrisome for me is the 12 percent who believe that Trump should never concede.  I expect the percentage for concession will (and should) increase as these challenges are heard and rejected.  I have repeatedly stated that the Trump team is running out of time and runway to launch a serious claim of systemic problems in the election. (Yesterday, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court rejected the challenge based on observers. I stated two weeks ago that allegations of involving observers would not likely change any outcome on voting). The problem is that all of the hyperventilation over the challenges and effort to stop them has fueled the mistrust of many in the results. What voters see is an immediate campaign (after the election was called for Biden) to harass lawyers and law firms to get them to drop challenges.  What they see is the same one-sided media coverage that either ignores alleged irregularities or dismisses any claims before they were actually filed in court.

Given the nine percent who have not reach a conclusion, the plurality still favors immediate concession, but that is still remarkably low given the unrelenting coverage and open hostility shown to the challenges from the outset. A majority either does not support an immediate concession or have not reached a conclusion on the need for such a concession.

If Biden was losing in these states and this campaign produced hundreds of affidavits of alleged irregularities, the media and the Democrats would be demanding that all challenges be heard and resolved in the interests of the democratic process.  I would be advocating supporting those calls as I did in 2004 when Democrats raised objections to the voting in states like Ohio.

There was a time when most voters trusted the media and that trust allowed for greater trust in the outcome of the election. For four years, the media has dispensed with any sense of neutrality and openly supported the Biden campaign. Reporters are now invested in the various narratives put forward by the Biden camp and their coverage reflects that bias. The result is shown in this poll. The media is now playing to the same 30-40 percent of the voters. It is no surprise therefore that the media got polling wrong or that their predictions of a blue wave collapsed on election night.  The Republicans not only came remarkably close to retaking the house (which now has the smallest margin since World War II), but appear likely to retain the Senate. They also made major gains in state races. Moreover, while winning the popular vote handily, Biden won key states by only a couple percent points, including races that took a week to call. The mainstream media was wrong because it remains as siloed and isolated as its viewers.

Obviously, this poll will be spinned like everything else in our politics.  Politico’s headline declares “Poll: 46 Percent Say Trump Should Concede ‘Right Away.'” Yet, what was most striking to some of us was that a majority does not even after a couple weeks of challenges and negative court decisions. What the poll really shows is an unresolved divide and no real avenue to breach that divide. I expect that those favoring a concession will rise in the coming days absent some major new challenge. However, the unrelenting biased coverage will likely undermine the confidence of many voters. That will only work to the disadvantage of Biden and the country going forward. What concerns me is that we have missed the best opportunity to come together as a nation by supporting a full and open review of the election.

In the past, it has been the media that helped unite us. We could trust that reporters have actively pursued allegations of wrongdoing. If the media called an election, most people accepted that judgment. No longer. That trust is largely gone and so is the capacity for healing. That is the most chilling aspect of the Politico poll: a plurality wants an immediate concession, a majority does not . . .  and one hundred percent remains divided on either what the truth is or how to find it.

284 thoughts on “Politico Poll: The Country Remains Sharply Divided On The Need For An Immediate Concession”

  1. Right now it looks more like armed conflict. The democrats have gone too far. The only way I can see to avoid bloodshed would be that the democrats receive the punishment they’ve worked very hard to get since before Donald Trump became president.
    All the way from the top down. The more the left denies what they’ve done the more certain conflict is.

    The left doesn’t do punishment except for other people.

    1. at the very least, this country has shown that our elections are suspect. The supposed shining light of our country has been snuffed out. For the life of me, I can’t figure out what the democrats hoped to gain. I feel pushed into civil war and I don’t know why they think that’s a good idea. After all, the majority of Americans with the most guns are conservatives/Trumpers. I live under the boot of corrupt liberals here ini California, so I’m pretty thick skinned. But as I go around doing my general things like dr. appointments, grocery shopping, etc., I’m hearing over and over, ‘this is the last straw’. I can’t see any way past this. It’s heart breaking.

  2. Prof. Turley while you have proven correct on several of the courts responses to Trump challenges – that does not mean the courts are correct.

    I do not have polling – but I would be suprised if the vast majority of voters would be happy with the shenanigans that have been going on.

    We Send observers like Jimmy Carter arround the world to shine sunlight on elections in third world countries and we are expected to tolerate the games that thugs and despots play in our cities ?

    If the major cities in this country can not manage to process ballots under public oversight, then we just should not count their votes.

    The must be some consequence for misconduct or we will see that conduct grow.

    While it seems like pissing into the wind to oppose mailin voting at the moment – at the same time this is an OBVIOUSLY abominably bad idea which poses an existential threat to our liberty and to the rule of law, that we are doing nothing about.

    I am torn between whether we should take up arms in the streets or just take advantage of the situation and flood the next election with bogus mailin votes.

    There is absolutely no way to actually secure a mailin election.

    At the very least it will ALWAYS be possible to induce (buy) or coerce votes.

    And in the era of cancel culture we should be very careful about erording the protections from coercion of secret ballots.

    1. Since the media isn’t covering the shenanigans, most people don’t know about them.

      These affidavits are in the Lin Wood case in GA:

      Exhibit D Volyes Affidavit — Document #6, Attachment #4
      Georgia recount worker with 20 years of experience handling ballots described an odd batch that stood out. Pristine sheets with no markings and 98% for Biden.

      Exhibit F Romero Affidavit — Document #6, Attachment #6
      3rd monitor, a Democrat: “Hundreds of these ballots seemed impeccable, with no folds or creases. The bubble selections were perfectly made … only observed selections in black ink, and all happened to be selections for Biden. Based on my observations, I believe there was fraud was committed in the presidential election and question the validity of the Georgia recount process.”

      Exhibit I Silva Affidavit — Document #6, Attachment #9
      4th witness, also a Democrat saw perfect black marks on a stack of ballots … 500 in a row all for Biden.
      “I watched them pull out a pile of what I observed to be absentee ballots and noticed two very distinct characteristics that these ballots had. One, I noticed that they all had a perfect black bubble and were all Biden select. I was able to observe the perfect bubble for a few minutes before they made me move away from the table. At no time did I speak to the poll workers or obstruct them in anyway. I heard them go through the stack and callout Biden’s name over 500 times in a row.

      Exhibit U Hartman Affidavit — Document #6, Attachment #20
      Barbara Hartman is the 7th witness who personally counted the uncreased mail ballots which appeared to never have been folded and all perfectly marked (as though with a stamp.)

      An affidavit submitted to the GA court by Ramsland Jr, an IT security guy, points to a vote surge in MI with Dominion software. 384,000+ votes were tabulated in 4 areas in less than 3 hours. and Ramsland calculated that based on the number of machines those areas had they could only process less than 100,000 in that time. He said it indicates a manual adjustment (easy to do) or a hack by outsiders.

        1. All of that is to be expected.

          Success on these types of claims is extremely rare.

          Judges almost never hold government accountable for malfeasance.

          That does not mean it did not happen.

          This is also one of the reasons that judges need the balls to order compliance BEFORE hand.

          It is far easier to order a government entity to follow the rules, than it is to sanction them after the fact for failing to do so.

          It is also far easier to have these entities FOLLOW THE RULES, than to expect the courts to have the courage to take steps after the fact that will always be more draconian.

          As an example EVERYONE knows that Philadelphia did not follow the PA law and counted ballots received after 8pm election day.

          Unfortunately the PA Supreme Court made up new law from thin air giving them more time – which is not the domain of the courts.
          This reached the US supreme court which deadlocked 4:4 but sgtrongly suggested that PA segregate the ballots receive after 8pm election day.
          The PA election board “advised” Philadelphia to do that, and then later rescinded their own advice.
          Finally Alito who is the SCOTUS judge serving the 3rd circuit ORDERED PA to segregate ballots received after 8pm election day.

          We have had several PA cases subsequently as well as I think a federal case that have ignored Alito’s order.

          Eventually this will be back to SCOTUS.

          But now we have a different issue.

          At this time it is likely that no ballots received after 8pm were segregated so that they can be rejected as required by actual PA law and Alito’s order.

          So SCOTUS will not have the option to just order that ballots received after 8PM election day be rejected – which is what should have been done from the start. They can rant and rave but they can not order something that can not possibly be done anymore.

          And so that you understand – the way mailin and absentee ballots are processed, is that they are counted AFTER they are removed from the outer envelope. This is required to preserve the secrecy of the ballot. So unless PA implimented new procedures it will be impossible to identify the invalid ballots and remove them.

          This BTW happens constantly in election fraud cases.

          Even were there is clear malfeasance on the part of election officials the courts will not invalidate the election. And that is the only real option they have. And they have no authority to punish the miscreants.

          So SCOTUS has three choices:

          1). Rant and rave and do nothing.
          2). Invalidate all mailin ballots.
          3). order the PA state legislature to not certify the election.

          It does not take a rocket scientists to grasp that options 2 & 3 are not happening.

          And that means that Biden will win PA even though with a proper count excluding the invalid ballots he likely lost – possibly by a large margin.

          And you are of course OK with that.

          Regardless, all of this is why elections have to be structured so that fraud and malfeasance is impossible.
          Because after the fact the courts either can not or will not fix it.

          The only exception to the above would be if the Trump Lawyers can prove that the Biden campaign participated in the illegal decisions.

          If that were the case the court could more easily rule to throw out mailin votes or to kick the election to the legislature.

  3. Mr. Turley, First, Republicans don’t systematically cheat like the Democrats, so flipping the circumstances to demonstrate a point is worse than hypothetical, it would only be a worthwhile thought experiment only on Bizarro World. Second – you seem unaware of the ocean of evidence of massive fraud by the Democrats this time in league with our nations deadliest enemies. President Trump was re-elected by a landslide as you will see shortly.

    1. Jonathan Turley forgets that each affidavit is signed under the penalty of perjury and is end of it self evidence of wrongdoing. The professor is being intellectually dishonest at best!

      1. I don’t think he is being dishonest. I think he is hedging. He can’t go all in for Trump, even “if” he sees the validity of Trump’s claim (which, if he is truly as smart as we all think he is…) I digress.
        In other words, He has to keep his day job. Trying not to get cancelled like some of us.

        He may also know more than he is letting on and understand that regardless of the evidence, it will never change the results of this election.
        That’s my bet. If Joe Biden walked into the Supreme Court and announced that he did steal the election, they’d still make him President.
        They hate Trump (and us) that much.

        In the end, it really doesn’t matter. The Democrats stole this election and anyone paying attention knows it. Regardless of who is in the Whitehouse come Jan 21, 2021 there will be blood.
        If we lose, we aren’t going to take it and if they lose, neither will they.

        The Democrats win. America as we know it is OVER. Even if we win the fight that is coming, it will never be the same.

        1. Keep your powder dry.

          Let the left blow itself up.

          Remember Chaz or Chap or whatever they called it.

          Biden is presiding over a democratic party that is in complete disarray and coming apart.

          Give them the chance to self destruct.

          Biden must deliver – both to the country and to the left.

          Look at what is going on in the House. It appears Pelosi is OUT.

          It appears there is finally a revolt of democratic moderates going on.

          Trump stole the working class from the democratic party – and they are not coming back.

          But the Neo Conns left the GOP and they are not coming back either – goof riddance.

          But there is an enormous body of moderate democrats who are being run over by the lunatic left in their own party.

          They are either taking over the democratic party, or they are leaving it.

  4. Senators release new evidence tying Hunter Biden business to communist China, Russian energy
    The “relationships created counterintelligence and extortion concerns,” Grassley and Johnson warn.

    “These new records confirm the connections between the Biden family and the communist Chinese government, as well as the links between Hunter Biden’s business associates and the Russian government, and further support the Committees’ September 23, 2020 report’s finding that such relationships created counterintelligence and extortion concerns,” the senators wrote in their new report. …

    “In 2017, during the time that Ye’s companies were sending millions of dollars to Hunter Biden associated companies, Ye had business dealings with Kremlin-controlled companies and Kremlin-aligned businessmen,” the report said. “In effect, Ye appears to have been China’s unofficial bridge to Russia on energy. As noted in the Committees’ September 23, 2020 report, in September 2017, CEFC announced its intention to purchase a 14.2 percent stake in the Russian state-owned energy company, Rosneft, for approximately $9 billion.”

    https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/senators-release-new-evidence-tying-hunter-biden?utm_source=breaking-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

  5. Because pollsters were right about the election…so we can trust them here. I don’t care what the pollsters, the media, the tech giants, or even what the American people think. Follow the law…challenge the votes, expose the fraud. Trump wins in a landslide.

  6. The ‘plan’ was always to get Kamala into the WH. Barack Obama backed Kamala from the get go. Barack Obama still has his mansion in the middle of Washington DC with Valerie Jarrett all moved in with them as they plot their takeover.

  7. Top Election Security Official Fired For Contradicting Trump’s Lies

    Chris Krebs knew his mission this year was to protect the integrity of the US election – but he might not have predicted the way that would cost him his job.

    For well over a year, Mr Krebs and his cyber-security team had been gaming scenarios about what could go wrong. At one point, he said his greatest fear was that voter registration databases might be interfered with to stop people voting.

    He also talked about the concern that on election night, media organisations might be hacked to prevent people knowing the results and create confusion.

    The experience of Russian hacking and interference in 2016 had led the whole US national security community to prepare for a re-run in 2020. But in the end that was a threat that never materialised.

    Perhaps that was because of the defensive work by Mr Krebs and colleagues or perhaps because of the way the National Security Agency went on the offensive against hackers in Russia and elsewhere to deter and stop them.

    But it was also perhaps because foreign actors decided they did not need to do very much to stir up divisions – since they were so deeply entrenched inside America already.

    The fear of misinformation led to the establishment of the Rumour Control website under Mr Krebs and this brought him into conflict with his own president.

    Votes had been cast by dead people and were being counted. False, the site said.

    A bad actor could change results without detection. Again, false, it said, providing details of why that could not be the case.

    If results change in the days after the initial count, they cannot be trusted and have been compromised. Again, a big red cross on the website indicated this was not true.

    This all directly contradicted assertions that Donald Trump and some of his allies were relying on to challenge the integrity of the result.

    President Trump himself cited reports that a particular voting machine had deleted 2.7 million votes, while his campaign suggested dead people had voted in Georgia.

    Mr Krebs’ own Twitter account as well as the website maintained a steady and consistent message – the vote had not been rigged. A statement on 12 November by a group of officials posted on Mr Krebs’ Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency (Cisa) website described the election as “the most secure in American history”.

    “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised,” one line from the statement said – in bold to add emphasis. Less than a week later, Mr Krebs was “terminated” by a presidential tweet.

    His firing was the latest – and not necessarily the last – chapter in the long battle between President Trump and his own national security community. At issue from the start has been the legitimacy of both election campaigns he has fought in.

    Edited from: “Chris Krebs Is Gone But His Firing May Not Be The Last”

    BBC News, 11/18/20

    1. “..the long battle between President Trump and the Communist International insecurity community.” Fixed it for you. Krebs is a deep state operative whose job was to undermine election integrity to further the goal of resetting the USA from a free republic to a Socialist hellhole.

  8. A Racist Power Play By Michigan Republicans Was Abnormal In Every Respect

    The election canvassing board in Wayne County — a largely Democratic area that includes Detroit — met to certify the results of the Nov. 3 election and deadlocked along party lines, with the board’s two Democrats voting to certify and its two Republicans voting not to.

    The Republican members, William Hartmann and Monica Palmer, said they were concerned about small discrepancies between the number of votes cast in some precincts and the number of people precinct officials recorded as having voted.

    These sorts of inconsistencies can happen if, for instance, a voter checks in but then gets frustrated by a long line and leaves. They were nowhere near significant enough in Wayne County, or anywhere else in Michigan, to change President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory — Mayor Mike Duggan of Detroit said they involved just 357 votes out of about 250,000 cast in the city — and canvassing boards routinely certify election results under similar circumstances.

    After intense backlash, both from election watchdogs and from voters whom Representatives Debbie Dingell and Rashida Tlaib organized to call in to the canvassing board’s meeting, Mr. Hartmann and Ms. Palmer voted to certify the results after all. While they demanded that Jocelyn Benson, the Michigan secretary of state, conduct an audit of the Wayne County results, that will not delay the certification process.

    By Wednesday morning, every county in Michigan had certified its results. The Board of State Canvassers will meet on Nov. 23 to certify the statewide totals.

    Election certification is supposed to be routine: Canvassers at the county or municipal level (depending on the state) review precinct results, make sure every ballot is accounted for and every vote was counted, double-check the totals and send the certified numbers to state officials. It’s the process by which the results reported on election night are confirmed.

    This is basically an accounting task. If the canvassers find possible errors, it is their job to look into and resolve them, but refusing to certify results based on minor discrepancies is not normal. Michigan’s canvassing boards always have four members split between the two parties, and it is extremely rare for members to decline to certify an election that their party lost.

    Before the deadlock was resolved, Ms. Palmer had proposed certifying the results in “the communities other than the city of Detroit.” As Democrats and election law experts noted, nearly 80 percent of Detroit residents are Black. By contrast, in Livonia — a city west of Detroit that had the second-highest number of discrepancies in the county, but whose results Ms. Palmer was willing to certify — less than 5 percent of the population is Black.

    The Board of State Canvassers would have been responsible for certifying Wayne County’s results if the Board of County Canvassers hadn’t. Section 168.822 of Michigan’s election laws says that if a county board fails to certify results, the state board “shall meet immediately and make the necessary determinations and certify the results” within 10 days.

    But this election has shown that what happened in the past is no guarantee. Before the standoff was resolved Tuesday night, Jenna Ellis, a legal adviser to the Trump campaign, made it clear that the goal was to get the Republican-led Michigan Legislature to appoint a pro-Trump Electoral College slate — in opposition to the clear preference of Michigan voters, who chose Mr. Biden by a margin of nearly 150,000 votes. (A senior adviser to Mr. Trump, Justin Clark, said the campaign had played no role at the canvassing board.)

    The Republican leader of the Michigan Senate has said that the Legislature will not name its own electors. But if it did, and the governor named a competing electoral slate, it would be up to Congress to decide which one to accept. Several election lawyers said last week that federal law would favor the slate appointed by the governor, including if Congress deadlocked. Congress could also, in theory, toss out Michigan’s electoral votes altogether.

    Regardless of the outcome, the fact that the Trump campaign and other Republicans have managed to inject so much chaos into what should be formalities shows how much disruption is possible in the systems that undergird the democratic process.

    Edited from: “When Michigan Republicans Refused To Certify Votes, It Wasn’t Normal”

    Today’s New York Times

  9. “Olly, you stupid schmuck:” says Joe Friday…

    But, before one calls someone a “stupid schmuck” one should have all their ducks in a row. If one doesn’t then one is definitely a stupid schmuck.

    I won’t make a judgement though I believe I know the answer. Perhaps you should ascertain what you are reading.

    Are you relying on a law or a research document?

    What does the word apparent mean?

    Is there a disclaimer so that one doesn’t rely on the information produced as if it were definitive law?

    What is the law actually requiring and how does that law interact with other laws and powers?

    I’ll give you a hint. That article has a disclaimer.

    1. But, before one calls someone a “stupid schmuck” one should have all their ducks in a row. If one doesn’t then one is definitely a stupid schmuck.

      Kayla,
      After dealing with this pos(t)er these last 4 years, it’s precisely when his ducks have run amok that the ad hominems come out.

  10. ELECTION TAMPERING WHISTLEBLOWER
    ___________________________________

    “[Attorney Sidney Powell revealed] how a Venezuelan “whistleblower,” who she says was a high-ranking military official once close to Hugo Chavez who now lives in the United States, claimed in an affidavit that Smartmatic software [in Dominion Voting Systems] had the capability to change votes clandestinely.

    “From the affidavit: ‘designed in a way the system could change the vote of each voter without being detected.

    “He wanted the software itself to function in such a manner that if the voter were to place their thumbprint or fingerprint on a scanner, then the thumbprint would be tied to a record of the voter’s name and identity as having voted, but that voter would not be tracked to the changed vote.

    “He made it clear that the system would have to be set but not leave any evidence to the changed vote for a specific voter and that there would be no evidence to show and nothing to contradict that the name or thumbprint was going with a changed vote.

    “‘Smartmatic agreed to create such a system and produce the software and hardware that accomplished the result for President Chavez,’ Powell said to Lou Dobbs, quoting the affidavit.

    “According to Powell, the whistleblower cites multiple instances where the Smartmatic software was used in Venezuela to help the socialist former President Hugo Chavez win elections in 2006 and 2013.”

    – Anthony Leonardi

    1. “You can’t handle the truth!”

      – Colonel Jessup
      ______________

      By the implication of your words, President Trump “lost” the election of November 3, 2020.

      Yep, in the same way that JFK lost the election of November 22, 1963…

      By the criminal schemes of the global communist Deep Deep State.

      1. The law says you are guilty of depraved indifference if you engage in conduct that creates a grave risk of death and are aware of and consciously disregard that risk.

        The courts further define a depraved indifference state of mind as exhibiting an utter disregard for the value of human life; simply not caring whether grievous harm will result.

        Seems the only crime committed – that of allowing 250,000+ citizens to die, and still refusing to engage in any of transitional advantages afforded to him, each day condemning additional Americans to a similar fate – has its perpetrator holed up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

        1. The criminal perpetrator is actually in Beijing, China.

          The responsible American parties sit in 50 state houses.

          And I’m gonna take a wild guess that none of your prevarication will ever come to pass.

          1. You mean like, the Prevaricator-in-chief? Who definitely lied, either on tape to Woodward or on TV to the American public?

            I’m gonna take a wild guess that you will fall for anything your reality-show hero utters, precisely due to you lack of any discernible thought or analysis before engaging your favorite birther’s talking points.

            But that would be more real work than you’re prepared to exert.

            1. I find the unhinged attacks on Trump amusing.

              Like Trump – do not like him. Your choice.

              But somehow your entire life seems to revolve entirely arround Trump rage to the exclusion of anything else.

              The left has elevated “the ends justifies the means” to an artform – and then can not even manage to push for positive ends.

              For most of my lifetime the left has been anti-war, has sought to extricate the US for foreign conflicts.

              Yet here you are celebrating the end of a foreign policy that has accomplished exactly that, and a return to “normalicy”.

              Normalicy over the past 50 years has been constant war and conflict in the mideast and elsewhere involving the US.

              Trump is the first president since Carter that has not invaded anything. Peace is actually breaking out in the mideast.
              You can go to markets in Abu Dabi and buy oranges openly grown in Israel.

              Trump makes you foam and froth – we all got that.

              But what is the actual ends that your ends justifies the means nonsense desires ?

              Is the most important ends you seek – a more peaceful world, a reduction in conflict – especially conflict involving the US, a stronger economy, lower unemployment – or is it just getting rid of orange man ?

        2. “Seems the only crime committed – that of allowing 250,000+ citizens to die, ”

          It is amazing how some posters are so ignorant about a respiratory virus. It is also amazing how some posters do not understand the damage that has been done because of hysteria. Fear is justified by hysterical rantings are not.

          The President wasn’t perfect, but so far he has a better handle on the problem that all the other politicians. I suggest you add up the life years lost from Covid and then look at the life years lost and destroyed by actions that were ill thought out by governors, mayors and other people in power.

          It appears we will have a vaccine by the end of the year that is said is 95% effective if you can believe that. No other politician could have obtained such a result in such a short time span. He closed the border to Chinese travelers and then Europeans while he was being impeached by Democrats that wanted to keep the borders open and advised the opposite of social distancing.

          Look at the Democrat governor of California eating out in a tightly packed room in a restaurant with a larger number of people around the table than his law permits. Look at how close they are sitting to each other and take note, no one has masks though other Californians have to keep masks on in between bites. Take note that after the meal they sat around and no one wore a mask. That is Democrat leadership. They order you, a slave, to do as they say, not as they do.

          1. Dr. Richard Bartlett has a treatment which has a 100% cure rate for Covid-19. His treatment was used on my 80 year old brother-in-law whose clinic gave him Dr. Bartlett’s treatment There is no reason anyone has to die. Most of those supposed 250,000 deaths aren’t even Covid-19 deaths, It’s criminal how these deaths are stated Covid-19 when someone dies of the heart attack, cancer, car accident, whatever Those numbers are not correct, that’s a well know fact and for someone to believe those lies doesn’t have a clue what the real numbers are.
            45% of the deaths from Covid-19 were from Seniors in Nursing homes where the Democratic Governors purposely put Covid-19 infected patients. That’s almost half the deaths in America!!

    1. CommitToInsaneAsylum,

      Katie Hobbs hung a “gay” flag on the AZ Capitol Building.

      Katie Hobbs is a “democrat,” aka communist.

      Yep! No bias there.

      1. “Katie Hobbs is a “democrat,” aka communist.” So says George.

        George is not a true American; he has no respect for real freedom.

      2. Calling other patriotic Americans “communists” is reprehensible.

        https://azsos.gov/about-office/secretaries-since-statehood/katie-hobbs

        “Secretary Katie Hobbs has led a life of service. Beginning as a volunteer at her church and continuing with her job as a social worker and chief compliance officer at one of the largest domestic violence centers in the U.S., the focus of her life has been to help others to gain security, to be heard, and to create better lives.

        That fundamental motivation inspired her to run for Secretary of State, after serving in the Arizona House of Representatives and Arizona Senate as minority leader. Now, she brings her years of experience to the Office of the Secretary of State to ensure that it runs productively, and that Arizona elections are secure, fair and efficient.

        Secretary Hobbs has a Bachelor of Social Work from Northern Arizona University and a Master of Social Work from Arizona State University. She has been a professional social worker since 1992. Prior to being elected to the legislature, she worked in the areas of domestic violence, behavioral health, and homelessness.

        She has been honored with dozens of awards for her service. Most recently, she was named the League of Cities and Towns Legislative Champion for two consecutive years (2017 and 2018).

        Secretary Hobbs met her husband at church in 1992. They live in Phoenix with their two kids, Hannah and Sam, and their dog and cats.”\

        Arty — hater of social workers — will be weighing in, soon.

        1. Two kids. Whoopty-do. China 1.4 billion. India 1.3 billion. Southeast Asia ~ 1 billion. The American fertility rate is in a “death spiral” and the population is imported. America is headed for extinction and she has two kids. Shiver me timbers!

          She supports the irrefutably unconstitutional principles of communism which are Central Planning (“Stimulus,” QE), Control of the Means of Production (i.e. unconstitutional regulation), Redistribution of Wealth and Social Engineering as manifested by, but not limited to, affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, rent control, social services, forced busing, minimum wage, utility subsidies, WIC, TANF, HAMP, HARP, TARP, Depts. Agriculture, Commerce, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc. None can be taxed for and none can be imposed on private property. Read the Constitution, comrade.

          Oh and how ’bout supporting that self-contradictory bit of idiocy, “gay” marriage. The institution of marriage is derived from the biblical Marys which represented motherhood and childbirth. Mother Mary and the Latin word for mother, mater, as in matrimony. Marriage is the institution of childbirth; of having babies. You can’t support “gay” mary-iage unless you support extinction and irrational and incoherent language.

          Thank you so much, comrade.

  11. THE VENEZUELAN AMERICAN ELECTION , 2020

    SMARTMATIC provides the software on DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS
    ________________________________________________________

    “Smartmatic was one of several firms that retrofitted gambling machines into electronic voting booths.

    Smartmatic was a little known firm, with virtually no experience in voting technology,

    with financial backing from the socialist government,

    and was selected as the vendor shortly before Hugo Chavez survived a very contentious recall referendum.

    “According to the attorney and international analyst, Giulio Cellini, the accusations made in the United States by President Trump regarding the possibility of fraud are concerning. Cellini says that these irregularities may invalidate the election in terms of credibility. They may define the number of votes that could be legitimate, or illegitimate. There is a lack of transparency, and questions are not definitively answered. Cellini says the Smartmatic and Dominion software made a great impression on him despite the Venezuelan experience. Given the concern, officials informed Cellini that Smartmatic had successfully bid the contract and provides the software on the Dominion machines.

    The Smartmatic controversies

    “The Smartmatic company participated in 14 elections in Venezuela, installing more than half a million voting machines and processing more than 377 million totally controversial votes. In Venezuela, deputy Julio Borges denounced that the system did not prevent irregularities during the recall referendum. However, the process was validated by international observers. Though it is unclear if the International Observers had the education and technological knowledge to observe software irregularities in the voting machines. Losing candidates in the Philippines, another country Smartmatic has produced disputed results, also denounced fraud in elections managed irregularly by Smartmatic. In addition, Smartmatic was denounced in 2019 in Argentina for voting errors and inconsistent results. However, in the constituent elections held in 2017, it was the first time that the company came into conflict with the Venezuelan authorities. The Venezuelan company Smartmatic was accused of having close ties to the late Hugo Chávez by the opposition to the current Maduro regime. Perhaps it was the relationship with Chavez Venezuelan government that led Smartmatic to distance themselves to access new markets. It should be noted that Antonio Mugica CEO of Smartmatic declared inconsistent results in Venezuela after the elections.

    “Journalist José Robles considers President Trump’s position legitimate, and feels strongly that President Trump has the right to express his disagreement with a fraud. Unusual conditions questionable situations, and inconsistent reporting, as have been reported. The case of the United States is closely related to Smartmatic because it is directly involved with Dominion machines. It is important to remember that this company has been the main provider of services in the Venezuelan electoral processes. There is evidence that in the Venezuelan elections of thousands of votes from deceased people and people who appear to vote multiple times with different names. The results that do not reflect the reality of the population.

    “For Robles, it has been said that Smartmatic was created precisely to fix elections.”

    – Elda Primera
    ____________

    SMARTMATIC

    Founding

    In 1997,[4] three engineers, Antonio Mugica, Alfredo José Anzola and Roger Piñate, began collaborating in a group while working at Panagroup Corp. in Caracas, Venezuela.[5][6][7][8][9] Following the 2000 United States presidential election and its hanging chad controversy in Florida, the group proposed to dedicate a system toward electoral functions.[9][10] Smartmatic was officially incorporated on 11 April 2000 in Delaware by Alfredo José Anzola.[11][12][13] Smartmatic then established its headquarters in Boca Raton, Florida with seven employees.[7][8] After receiving funds from private investors,[7] the company then began to expand.

    – Wiki

  12. Famous Lawyer Forgot How To Lawyer

    RUDY GIULIANI FLOUNDERS IN FEDERAL COURT MONDAY

    It was Rudolph W. Giuliani’s first appearance in federal court since the early 1990s, and by late afternoon Tuesday, it was clear that U.S. District Judge Matthew W. Brann was losing patience with President Trump’s personal attorney.

    Trump is seeking to stop the certification of Pennsylvania’s vote in the Nov. 3 election, alleging that Republican voters in the state were illegally disadvantaged because some Democratic-leaning counties allowed voters to fix errors on their mail ballots. Two voters named as co-plaintiffs with Trump’s campaign in the long-shot suit had their ballots voided and allege that they were not given a chance to correct their mistakes.

    “You’re alleging that the two individual plaintiffs were denied the right to vote,” Brann said. “But at bottom, you’re asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the commonwealth. Can you tell me how this result can possibly be justified?”

    In response, Giuliani said that Trump’s campaign was seeking only to throw out about 680,000 ballots cast in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, because, he said, Republican observers were not allowed to watch them being counted.

    But Trump’s attorneys had removed legal claims relating to that issue in an amended version of the lawsuit they filed over the weekend, the judge reminded him.

    “The poll-watching claims were deleted,” Brann told Giuliani. “They’re now not before this court, so why should I consider them now?”

    Giuliani — who in the days before the hearing had falsely denied that the claims were deleted — was forced to acknowledge that they had been. He said that the campaign would file a third version of its lawsuit restoring the allegations.

    Throughout the five-hour hearing in federal court in Williamsport, Pa., Giuliani — a former U.S. attorney and mayor of New York — came under heavy criticism from opposing counsel and appeared unable to answer several questions from Brann about legal technicalities.

    Brann asked what standard of review he should apply in the case. “I think the normal one,” Giuliani replied.

    “Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by strict scrutiny,” Giuliani said at another point.

    At a different moment, Giuliani said: “I’m not quite sure what ‘opacity’ means. It probably means you can see.”

    The judge responded: “It means you can’t.”

    In a heated 45-minute speech delivered over a patchy telephone link, Mark Aronchick, an attorney representing several Pennsylvania counties, said that Giuliani was ignorant of the law, living in “some fantasy world” and pushing wild allegations that were “disgraceful in an American courtroom.”

    While the hearing was taking place, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled against Trump in a separate case on the count observers, holding that Philadelphia authorities had given reasonable access to representatives from Trump’s campaign.

    Giuliani’s appearance in the case came after Trump’s team cycled through multiple other attorneys. The president was initially represented in the case by two attorneys from the firm Porter Wright Morris & Arthur, who withdrew last week. Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign’s communications director, said that the firm had “buckled” under pressure from opponents of the president’s effort to challenge the election results. Two more attorneys representing Trump’s campaign in the case withdrew on Monday.

    Edited From: “Here’s What Happened When Rudolph Giuliani Made His First Appearance In Federal Court In Nearly Three Decades”

    Today’s Washington Post

    1. APPOINTED BY BARACK OBAMA

      Well now, there’s a surprise!
      _______________________

      “President Trump’s lawsuit alleging voter fraud in Pennsylvania went to U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann, who was appointed by President Obama in 2012.”

      – The Washington Times

      1. George, it was a Bush-appointed Federal Judge in Texas that refused to allow Republicans to disenfranchise 167,000 voters in Harris County.

        Rudy hadn’t been in court since the early 1990’s. So ‘that’ explains his floundering.

        1. What some refuse to recognize is that Trump and the Bushes are barely in the same party. Why some act as if they are buddies or have agreement over policy is amazing to me. It is a form of ignorance that is frequently missed.

          1. But Trump relies on The Federalist Society to recommend judges, so Trump judges aren’t so different than Bush judges.

            1. I don’t know how to answer slop like this. Compare Barrett, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh to Roberts.

              Close your mouth and open your eyes.

              Bush: Globalism
              Trump: Americanism

              Go from there and start looking how to make 2+2=4.

  13. Today’s theme is about what the polls think about a Trump concession. Based on what we have seen, why would anyone trust the polls. The polls seem to represent the pollsters view rather than that of the people.

  14. Esteemed Jonathan Turkey Esq. A recount is nonsense. The servers and all associated hardware exist just like the DNC servers in 2016. The physical ballots exist. A full forensic examination of the actual physical hardware not a virtual copy of the five republican contested states and agreement to five audits by democratic disputed states if requested. The developments in cyber warfare invasion to hardware chip level requires this. Ie. Kaspersky and US intelligence fiasco. A hand recount with one person from each side and disputed votes adjudicated or a dedicated camera monitoring each vote. All signatures verified on all ballots. Money is a false argument(name a extortion amount Republicans Will pay instantly)COVID a false argument ( I’m 72 with COPD and I’ll volunteer to monitor, my children’s lives are at stake. Time as allways in short supply. The criminal party never wants their crime investigated . A senator guilty of stolen honour and another whose daughter may have been compromised by the the Democrat choice son are not helping matters.

  15. Turley, yet again, trying to normalize the absurdly abnormal–Trump. He once again argues that Trump’s baseless lawsuits–the product of his massive ago and tendency to retaliate against anyone who refuses to do his bidding–should be given fair consideration, despite the lack of anything resembling facts or evidence. Trump even fired Chris Krebs, the head of CISA, because he wouldn’t lie and because Krebs said there was no evidence of fraud, vote manipulation or any other factual basis to question the results. Turley also posits that’s there’s nothing wrong with Trump’s refusal to accept defeat, and nothing wrong with Fox, Breitbart, et al, stirring up the faithful to keep believing that the election was stolen from Trump. Just look at Manderfeld’s post, supra, as proof of the unshakable beliefs of a true Trump disciple, despite the lack of anything resembling facts or evidence. Think about this: a losing presidential candidate in a close election, stirs up voters to believe that his defeat was due to fraud with no evidence, and despite the fact that his own administration confirmed this was the most-secure election in history. How will this country ever heal the wounds of division stoked by Trump, and if we don’t stand united as one people, how vulnerable will we be to foreign manipulation via social media and other outside threats? How will Biden and Harris help get this country out of the pandemic hole caused by Trump’s incompetence when he and his sympathetic news outlets continue to encourage people not to cooperate with CDC guidelines? Prolonging the pandemic prolongs the economic damage, and even if the vaccine candidates work out (the Pfizer one requires extreme cold temperatures, which the US doesn’t have widespread capacity to transport and handle), most Americans couldn’t get vaccinated until next summer. Just last night Ingraham was stoking more resentment against the recommendation that people not gather in large groups for Thanksgiving celebrations. Denial of reality seems to be a common thread with Trump and his base.

    Biden, who was predicted to win in every major poll, including those of Fox, received the most votes of any presidential candidate in history. He was the legitimate choice of the majority of Americans. Trump has never obtained even a 50% approval rating, another historic first. It’s time to move on and restore American patriotism.

    1. James Baker’s testimony about Dennis Montgomery makes you a bold faced liar. If your ignorant of this testimony it says even more about your character.

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