“It’s Going Down”: The Justice Department Charges Two Women on Terrorism Charges

We have been discussing the previously announced use of terrorism laws to address violent protests around the country, a move that I have criticized as raising civil liberty concerns. There have been cases that arguably fit a terrorism model however and now the Justice Department has charged a new such case against two women associated with Antifa and anarchist groups. Samantha Frances Brooks, 27, and Ellen Brennan Reiche, 23, were charged with terrorism crimes in allegedly trying to place a “shunt” on railroad tracks to cause a train to derail.

A shunt disrupts the low level electrical current on the tracks. It can disable various safety features and cause a derailment or train wreck.  Notably, the government has reported “41 incidents of shunts placed on the BNSF tracks in Whatcom and Skagit counties—causing crossing guards to malfunction, interfering with automatic braking systems, and, in one case, causing the near-derailment of tanks of hazardous chemicals.”

The case was handled by the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force and reported that, on the night of October 11, 2020, multiple shunts were placed in three different locations in Whatcom and Skagit Counties.  The shunts triggered an automatic braking system on a train that was transporting hazardous and combustible material.  As a result, the emergency braking caused a portion of the train to decouple from the engine.

An anarchist website, It’s Going Down, reportedly claimed responsibility for the attacks to “fight against colonial invasion” of Wet’suwet’en Indian lands in British Columbia.  The website describes itself as “a digital community center for anarchist, anti-fascist, autonomous anti-capitalist and anti-colonial movements across so-called North America. Our mission is to provide a resilient platform to publicize and promote revolutionary theory and action.”  It features postings from groups like the Revolutionary Abolitionist Movement (RAM) to commemorate Michael Reinoehl who was accused of murdering a counterprotester before himself being shot by police.

This arrest occurred after police saw two people kneeling on the tracks near a crossing in Bellingham, Washington on surveillance videos.  They found a shunt and the women had a paper bag containing wire, a drill with a brush head, and rubber gloves.  Both claimed that they were just looking for their keys along the tracks when confronted.

According to Heavy.com, Reiche (above) works as a mentor for the nature program Wild Whatcom  and has worked as a deputy field organizer for Washington State Democrats.

She has a bachelor’s degree in German from Western Washington University and graduated from Gig Harbor High School. She says she’s certified as an alpine level II ski instructor and in adult and pediatric first aid.

Reiche and Brooks could be sentenced to up to 20 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine.

The case highlights again the shadowy network used by Antifa and anarchist members despite denials of such organized violence on the left.  I testified in the Senate on Antifa and its history of violence on our campuses and streets. As I have written, Antifa is indeed more of a movement than a specific organization, but it has members and associated groups. Indeed, it has long been the “Keyser Söze” of the anti-free speech movement, a loosely aligned group that employs measures to avoid easy detection or association.  FBI Director Wray told Congress “And we have quite a number — and I’ve said this quite consistently since my first time appearing before this committee — we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists and some of those individuals self-identify with Antifa.”  While right-wing groups still account for more deaths and injuries, there is a national network of violent and organized groups on the left that are also fueling unrest.

Here is the complaint: United States v._Reiche_and_Brooks.pdf

121 thoughts on ““It’s Going Down”: The Justice Department Charges Two Women on Terrorism Charges”

  1. DEAR COMMIT: Dr. Fauci March 8, 2020 “There’s no reason to be walking around with a Mask…” ——January 31, 2020 President Trump bans travel from China. Proclamation on Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Persons who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus | The White House.—— March 11, 20202 President Trump bans travel from Europe Proclamation—Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus | The White House. ——World Health Organization declares the coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency of international concern. Biden February 2, 2020 at a campaign event “need to have a president who they can trust what he say about it, that he is going to act rationally about it”, speaking of the virus, continuing: “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia-hysterical xenophobia-and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science”. April 3, 2020 Biden’s campaign said Biden now supports President Trump’s decision to impose travel restrictions on China. The New York Time quoted epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm that Trump’s decision on China travel ban “more of an emotional or political reaction” Vox on Jan. 31 tweeted “Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No.”, then a month and half later corrected its position to “no longer reflects the current reality of the coronavirus story.” Cutting funding to CDC or NIH, I’ll quote AP Fact Check speaking of Bloomberg and Biden they state “THE FACTS: They’re both wrong to say the agencies have seen their money cut. Bloomberg is repeating the false allegation in a new ad that states the U.S. is unprepared for the virus because of “reckless cuts” to the CDC. Trump’s budgets have proposed cuts to public health, only to be overruled by Congress, where there’s strong bipartisan support for agencies such as the CDC and NIH. Instead, financing has increased”…” Indeed, the money that government disease detectives first tapped to fight the latest outbreak was a congressional fund created for health emergencies”. Biden claimed on March 1, 2020 “They’ve cut the funding for the CDC”, and later added “Donald Trump’s careless, shortsighted actions left our nation ill-prepared and now Americans are paying the price”, but yet while Vice President the Obama administration repeatedly cut funding, 2012 cuts to the public health emergency preparedness program run by the CDC of about $72 million below 2010 levels, proposed cut to CDC 2014 budget of $270 Million and cuts to bio-defense and emergency preparedness programs according to CDC. In February there was a claim that President Trump sent Government owned PPE to China which was debunked as the State Department only helped logistics of transport of donated goods by U.S. organization and businesses as a humanitarian gesture, as asked by WHO. I’ll stop here though there is a lot more to debunk your post, but, President Trump could have used Martial Law to enforce a nationwide program but you and yours would have howled to no end about it being unlawful.

    1. I don’t know why you think what you’ve written “debunks” anything I said.

      How about you quote something I wrote that you believe to be false, to clarify what you’re talking about?

      For the record, Trump did not ever “ban” travel from China. He did implement travel restrictions from China, but over 35,000 people travelled from China to the U.S. after they were implemented: https://apnews.com/article/d227b34b168e576bf5068b92a03c003d

      1. Maybe you should read the White House declarations I quoted on travel. No matter what is proved to you will change your mind. I’ll spend no more time with you. Have a good day.

        1. George, learn to use paragraph breaks when you’re posting something several hundred words long about a bunch of distinct things.

          I had *already* read the travel restriction (again, not a “ban”) on the WH website: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/

          I am always open to changing my mind based on evidence. As best I can tell, you did not present evidence to “debunk” anything I said.

      2. That statement is just dumb. I heard 1 million Chinese people come to the US every year and I can’t count how many Americans were in China.

        Was Commit advocating that planes stop midair? Should Americans not be returned home? Should essential people from China not be permitted back in even if that person might be the Chinese ambassador. There are a lot more considerations but people with severe tunnel vision limit themselves to the stupid.

        1. LMAO, Allan, just minutes after I point out some of your trolling strategies, you illustrate all but the first one.

          Allan’s rules for how to troll –

          Lie.
          Insult.
          Pretend to read someone’s mind and attack the person on the basis of his made up attribution.
          Attribute his own failings to others.

        2. You are irrationally arguing with infinite denial personified.

          Stop beating your head against the wall, eh?
          ___________________________________

          “That dudn’t make any sense.”

          – George W. Bush
          _______________

          “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.”

          – Albert Einstein

  2. What does Turley’s statement mean: “While right-wing groups still account for more deaths and injuries..” Proof? Is he counting Oklahoma City from years ago? I don’t see a lot of right-wing caused deaths–just left-wing (BLM/Antifa/Black racist) ones.

  3. Commit. When you comment about Trumps handling of Corona you always make a general statement. The states make decisions independently and have made different decisions than each other and the federal government. New York and California are an example. New York has suffered many more deaths than California. I am waiting for your condemnation of Coumo. Your dream of a centralized government controlled by one man does not exist in the US. Your narrative seems to be placed in your head with “talking points” name brand cement.

    1. Thanks for the insults. That’s definitely a way to convince me to devote time to having a discussion with you. /s

      1. I imagine an insult is directed to you only because it appears to be your preferred mode for communicating with others.

        1. Young, Commit’s rules of how to debate and win.

          Exclude everyone that is smarter than you.
          Exclude everyone that relies on reliable facts.
          Deal only with people that agree with you.
          Pick on the insignificant statements that can never be proven.
          Pretend that your prior comments don’t exist.

          If your arguments fail to convince blame everyone else.

          1. Allan’s rules for how to troll –

            Lie.
            Insult.
            Pretend to read someone’s mind and attack the person on the basis of his made up attribution.
            Attribute his own failings to others.

    2. “centralized government controlled by one man does not exist” Please don’t tell Moscow Mitch that, cause he’s got all the cards, and he gets to cut them anyway he wants. Been doing it for years, don’t look for him to change anything.

      1. Fish. And all the left wing legislation has never happened. You attribute more power to Mitch than he has ever had. As to calling him Moscow Mitch, we should compare his actions to the Obama administration Russian reset with Hillary Clinton holding the Reset Button. That pesky history just gets in the way of your narrative. Perusing all the news to find your the perfect match to your thoughts. “Moscow Mitch”. Your so clever.

        1. From Putin’s mouth to your ears Thinkitthrough? Maybe you should get another name, that one doesn’t suit you.

        2. I know I am a little late to the party, but don’t forget Pres. Obama saying on an open mic to Pres Medvedev “after the election I will have more flexibility”, To which Medvedev responded “I will tell Vladimir”.

    3. “Commit When you comment about Trumps handling of Corona you always make a general statement. I am waiting for your condemnation of Coumo.”

      Expect nothing. Commit is a hypocrite.

    4. As I recall, President Trump attempted to set some national standards and some governors threatened to take the President to court if he interfered in their state’s affairs. Governor Cuomo was at the forefront of this. At the time I sent an e-mail to President Trump to let each governor make his/her decisions for their states since they were closest to the people and each state was experiencing different levels of the Corona virus.

  4. Violence is not the way to resolve our problems. Shame on these women and on all other Americans who resort to violence other than in self-defense.

    Meanwhile, the country continues to be harmed by Trump’s weak COVID response, and that does more harm than the relatively small number of violent extremists.

    The COVID Tracking Project says that yesterday “States reported 1.8 million tests, 225k cases, and 2,563 deaths. There are 101,276 people currently hospitalized with COVID-19 in the US. Both case and hospitalization counts surpassed yesterday’s all-time highs.”
    https://twitter.com/COVID19Tracking/status/1335016621111345152
    Daily deaths are close to the all-time highs in the spring.

    Over 100K people hospitalized and record case counts means that the death count will also be increasing in the weeks to come, though (thankfully), doctors have learned about treatment over the last several months, so a smaller % of hospitalized patients are dying. So many of these deaths and long-term health problems and economic problems could have been prevented, if only we’d had a president who truly cared and did everything he could to minimize the harms. If Trump had done that, he would have been reelected, so it was even in his personal interest to do it. He simply wasn’t capable. He is a malignant narcissist and unfit, and Jan. 20th can’t come soon enough.

    1. Generalized statements mean nothing, if only, WHAT would you have done different? The supposed experts haven’t made anything better at the federal, state or local level. You just want to blame someone, why not CHINA?

      1. I absolutely blame China for their inadequate and non-transparent response. But China isn’t our President, so I condemn Trump too.

        The President has many powers in the U.S. that no one else has. The President has access to a combination of information that hardly anyone else has (outside of the V.P., probably).

        There are lots of things that Trump should have done differently:
        https://jonathanturley.org/2020/08/11/does-mandatory-mask-enforcement-violate-the-american-disability-act/comment-page-1/#comment-1988928

        Masks are effective in reducing spread of the virus. Imagine if early on, Trump had called for everyone to wear masks for the communal well-being of everyone in the country and had consistently modeled it himself. Imagine if he’d ordered production of effective masks to be distributed freely to anyone who needed one, whether it was because the person was poor or simply forgot their mask when they left the house. Imagine if he’d demanded transparency from China from the get-go and hadn’t approved cuts to pandemic-preparedness funding. Imagine if Trump had hired competent people who’d made sure that the national strategic stockpile was kept stocked with non-expired goods. Imagine if he’s made sure that the federal government coordinated the state purchases of PPE initially, so that states weren’t competing with each other to obtain PPE. There’s a long list of things that Trump could have done as President. He didn’t do it because he is unfit.

        1. CTHD- “But China isn’t our President, so I condemn Trump too.”
          ***
          You say that time and again but overlook that most health policy is in the hands of state leaders like Cuomo, who effectively murdered thousands of elderly in New York. Look at the numbers; you are a detail person–except when it doesn’t suit your script.

          Killer Cuomo gets a pass from you because he has the magic ‘D’ that absolves all sins and offenses.

          1. Of course Trump telling the nation nothing to worry about, it doesn’t exist or it’s a democrat hoax, does not fit YOUR script.

            1. Fish. According to you,Trump should have told us that we are all going to die. Instead he said that Corona is not a god and we can overcome it. Now we are on the verge of doing exactly that. Biden says stay strong and you bow at his feet as you would at the feet of Thor. Ladies and gentlemen. On exhibit here is an extreme case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Biden by executive order will appropriate the needed funds for compassionate treatment. Joe Biden to the rescue, Joe Biden to the rescue. Go Joe Biden. Go Joe Biden.

        2. Masks do not work in any way but in your mind. If masks worked, why didn’t Dr. Fauci and Joe Biden recommend them when H1N1 came around? Do they recommend them for the Flu, an annual epidemic that is passed by aerosols? After all of the mask mandates in state after state, we still saw the fall resurgence that was predicted! There have been studies for decades that proved that masks did not work on flu, and that was why Fauci did not recommend them for anyone but health care workers. Look at the tapes. That is exactly what he said in the beginning. Later they all decided, “Why not, what can it hurt?” and everyone became mask zealots. Trump left the policy to the governors who all wanted control, but then the Democrats decided to blame it on Trump. He did what he could do at a national level—push the FDA, the CDC, fast track vaccines and treatments, and pass legislation to provide economic relief. As soon as he would have done something dramatic, like order the nation’s schools to open, totally scientifically based, the teachers unions would have called him Dr. Mengela. Just recognize that when you hate someone, you cease to be rational.

          1. “MsScience,” I refuse to answer loaded questions like “why didn’t Dr. Fauci and Joe Biden recommend them when H1N1 came around?,” when the burden is on you to first demonstrate neither recommended mask use and explain why you’re focused on them personally rather than focusing on CDC recommendations at the time. I am also not your unpaid research assistant, so if you want to know the answer to “Do they recommend them for the Flu, an annual epidemic that is passed by aerosols?,” look it up for yourself.

            Diseases aren’t interchangeable. SARS-CoV-2 and influenza are both respiratory illnesses, but the former is a coronavirus, not an influenza virus. They do not have the same transmission rates, and they don’t have the same mortality rates, so it shouldn’t be a surprise if recommendations are different for them.

            “Masks do not work in any way but in your mind”

            Thanks, but I’ll trust peer-reviewed science over the claims of a random commenter on the internet.

            Fauci didn’t recommend masks initially in part because there was a serious PPE shortage:
            “the public health community … [was] concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people, namely, the health care workers [had access], who were brave enough to put themselves in harms way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected.”

            “[Trump] did what he could do at a national level”

            No, he failed to do many things that he could have done at a national level.

            1. IIRC Harvard says 70k Americans die each year from bad advice Re. prescription drugs or patient errors Re. their use. Curious what’s your take on that.

        3. The virus is seasonal; look at the summer months. So the proper way to count is the same as for influenza, by season. Influenza season begins in September and runs through August. We do not keep adding influenza deaths and pneumonia deaths year upon year. We distinguish years. We should do the same for this virus, given that we now know it was in Europe, and probably the US, in September 2019. If we, do, then we get statistics similar to those for the Asian flu of 1957 and the Hong Kong flu of 1968-69. Asian flu killed 115,000 Americans (215,000, adjusted for population), Hong Kong 100,000 (170,000, adjusted for population). In neither case, did people panic. We went on with life as well as we could, quarantined ourselves if we were sick, missed work, and got on with our lives.
          There is also a problem with counting death “from” and “with” this virus. Check the CDC and other national databases, and you will find that they often attribute deaths to more than one cause, e.g., influenza and pneumonia, not one or the other. But this past year, anyone diagnosed with this virus was listed as having died “of” it, not “with” it, in part becaue EU rules mandate reporting deaths from anyone who perishes from an infectious disease, in part becauase in the US they did not conflated causes of death. But the difference between ‘with’ and ‘of ‘ is significant. We all die of something, and given the average age of 80 for those who died with the virus, most had serious underlying conditions which might have killed them in any case. In reality, the vast majority died with it — of complications, not of the virus. An Italian doctor warned us to make the distinction in March, but we ignored her, and so, like Chicken Little, we thought the sky was falling in, and after almost a year of 24/7 broadcasts by media whose primary aim to not to offer informed discussion but to promote a narrative, we are all scared stiff and cannot tell fact from fiction.
          The fact is that t he young do not die of this virus, and they appear not to spread it. Look at the statistics. Sweden kept 1.8 million kids under 16 in school, and none died, nor die they spread the disease. In Europe, many pupils have been back in school since September, and there have been almost no cases and no deaths of students. In the US and UK they have panicked, but the experts allowed to express their views have been very very wrong.
          Nor do masks prevent its spread. There has never been any evidence masks are useful, and the only large-scale random study, which was done in Denmark and has been published recently, found that masks make no difference.
          In reality, we do not even know yet how it is transmitted.
          Trump is the President; he is not a miracle-worker. State governments set policy, and in New York, Cuomo bungled badly, as did the local authorities. So New York has had 34,775 deaths of the 276,000 total, or 13 percent of the country’s death — are you as angry at Cuomo and De Blasio as you are at Trump? After all, Cuomo ordered patients with the virus into old age homes, and 40 percent of deaths were elderly over 75. Subtract the 34,775 deaths for which Cuomo is responsible from Trump’s total, and the 19,000 deaths for which Newsome is responsible, and the deaths other Democratic governors are responsible for, and Trump looks something of a piker when it comes to ‘mass murder.’ New York, California, Michigan, and Illinois totaled about 80,000 deaths — so I assume you would like those governors out of office as well?
          https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100k
          https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103688/coronavirus-covid19-deaths-us-by-state/

          1. Apologies for the typos — in a bit of a rush.
            Usually, CDC lists deaths from complications as having more than one cause.
            The point is not to offer ‘powerful’ arguments, but to look carefully at the data we have, consider it dispassionately, and then draw conclusions, if we can.

          2. You didn’t substantiate most of your claims. Given that this is a novel disease that mostly spread this calendar year, it makes no sense to arbitrarily cut the data off now.

            “are you as angry at Cuomo and De Blasio as you are at Trump?”

            I’m angry at them for their avoidable errors. But neither of them is the single-most powerful person in the country, neither of them had access to the PDBs, neither denied that COVID was serious, neither could invoke the DPA, neither pretended that COVID would miraculously disappear, …, so I’m angrier at Trump; in my opinion, he’s made more avoidable errors and more widely-impactful errors.

            “Cuomo ordered patients with the virus into old age homes”

            Yes, and he was wrong to do that, as I’ve said before. However, it’s also not clear that that was the primary driver of deaths in nursing homes in NY: https://khn.org/news/is-cuomo-directive-to-blame-for-nursing-home-covid-deaths-as-us-official-claims/
            And imagine how much better position Cuomo would have been in if the CDC had a widely available rapid test ramped up early on, keeping infected but asymptomatic workers and visitors out of nursing homes. Imagine how NY would have faired if Trump hadn’t created super-spreader events at the international airports there. Etc.

            I refuse to make it an either-or analysis.

            I recognize that deaths may have more than one contributing factor. However, the cause of death is generally the factor without which the person would not have died at that time, and many of the people who died this year would not have died this year were it not for COVID. The excess mortality in the U.S. is over 300,000 people: https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/cdc-data-excess-deaths-covid-19/

        4. “The President has access to a combination of information that hardly anyone else has”

          That is true, but the one’s that are supposed to keep the nation safe and secure were too busy trying to help the Democrats get rid of the President. He was poorly advised on many things, intentionally by supporters of the left that threw American security out the door.

          Fauci has been one of the main figures and experts. He has been wrong so many times one has to wonder. Fauci said masks don’t help. Fauci didn’t want to shut down Chinese travelers. Obama Biden emptied the strategic stockpile and never refilled it. It is your party that hindered the development of testing, the production of protective equipment, and did the wrong things such as killing nursing home patients.

      2. The pathway to a differing response has always been masks, selectively shutting high density population gathering, testing/quarantine guidelines, contact tracing, activating the DPA for PPE, etc. Eventual development of improved therapeutics and a vaccine. Basic public health guidelines slept on by a sizable section country both federally and in selected states.

        The trump administration has failed in its response and should be used as the example of how *not* to respond to a pandemic.

        Not rocket science.

        1. CTHD- “The pathway to a differing response has always been masks….”
          ***
          Masks were originally derided and then praised and then criticized and then promoted again by our League of Super Experts.

          A recent Danish study says they scarcely work. I don’t trust ‘studies’ as much as I once did but empirical evidence seems to confirm the Danish opinion. Everyone in LA yesterday and the day before was masked, many even while driving, and it has been that way for awhile, but the number of daily infections for both days shows a sharp increase. The masks are not working well in the field where it counts. Another derivative opinion comes from the experts and pols who are regularly caught not wearing masks.

          It is possible that mask wearing is contributing to the increase in infections. Poorly informed people may think the mask is actually protecting them and relax on measures, like distancing and washing, that are known to help in clinical settings.

          1. Masks work. Compare that Danish study with many others. And also know, that while you focused on just one of the tactics I mentioned, masks, by and of themselves, are part of a bigger picture.

            1. I’m not sure why Young thinks I’m you.

              Here’s a link to some research support for masks from the CDC:
              https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

              I bet a lot of people discussing the Danish study haven’t ever read it. (I hadn’t, until I looked it up just now.) It showed that there was some value to the wearer even when the overall infections rate is low (which unfortunately is not the case in many parts of the U.S. at this point), and it didn’t attempt to assess whether it protected others if the wearer was infected:
              https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

              1. CTHD-.” I’m not sure why Young thinks I’m you.”

                Similar rigidity of thought.

                The CDC has proven unreliable and infected with politics.

                I said in an earlier thread that I thought masks offered limited protection but primarily may protect others from a person who is infected.

                At the moment in places like California the extensive wearing of masks seems not to have much of an influence on R0. In Europe some of the countries with highest rates of infection are reported to be most stringent on mask use. What is happening in the field is better evidence than theory or ‘studies’. I think there is a danger that people rely too much on masks for protection. It’s like wearing a T-shirt for protection against bullets, or maybe the talisman Indians used to wear to repel bullets is a better example. Masks may be little more than talisman theater.

                We could use much better research on just how this monster is getting around. There may be many paths.

          2. “It is possible that mask wearing is contributing to the increase in infections. Poorly informed people may think the mask is actually protecting them and relax on measures, like distancing and washing, that are known to help in clinical settings.”

            Young, I believe that to be a very important statement. When the danger is reduced people have a tendency to take more risks. Studies have been done on this and one that you might remember is the seat belt study that correlated increased speed with seat belt mandates. I still think seat belts are a good idea and only use it as an example of how people respond to risk and safety measures.

            1. S. Meyer– The seat belt use being correlated with increased speeds is a good example of what I was thinking may be the case with masks. People feel safer and take greater risks. High rates of infection in jurisdictions that are very firm on mask wearing would make sense.
              Thanks

    2. Shame on the left for their violent demonstrations destroying neighborhoods, businesses and jobs.

      Shame on the leftist governors for their inadequate management of the Covid crisis and shame on all those that put politics in front of science and cannot recognize what highly infections respiratory viruses can do. Highly transmissible viruses cannot be stopped until a brave and strong leader ups the speed of the bureaucracy and creates a vaccine in ¼ of the time most would predict. Congratulations Trump. Same on Cuomo and several other governors that killed nursing home patients while committing negligent homicide and at least in one case passed laws to prevent any such prosecution of those involved.

  5. So can the American public put Trump and his support from far-right groups together? Can we say that the Michigan men that wanted to storm the state capital and kidnap the Governor and execute her is associated with Trump himself? Can we put together the call for martial law to overturn the election directly with the republican party and Trump? Can we put together the Proud boys and Nazis with Trump. If these women are terrorists then treat them as such, but also call out the terrorism from said groups that terrorize our political institutions and normal functional government. Turley throwing ANTIFA out any chance he gets doesn’t cut it with the reality that is really going on.

    1. Fish. None of the Michigan conspirators have said they were for Trump. None of the Nazis have said they were for Trump. None of the Proud Boys said they were for Trump. There will be anarchist under any President. However, there is no question that Democratic Mayors and Governors allowed Antifa to take over their cities. Please invite me to your next spoon feeding of the Trump narrative that Trump equals Nazis etc. Like watching baby birds with their beaks raised to the sky.

      1. Pete Musico, one of the Michigan conspirators, tweeted support for Trump. Shawn Fix, another Michigan conspirator, had a Trump sign in his yard. Neo-Nazi leader Morris Gulett donated at least $2000 to the Trump Campaign. There are lots of other examples you pretend don’t exist TiT.

        1. Anon. Let’s just suppose that what your saying is true. Trump has not given any support to any anarchist group in return. The mayors an Governors of Democratic cities supported the Antifa anarchistic by allowing the take over of their cities. They never condemned Antifa or BLM. They used it for political purposes until it backfired in public opinion and only then did they take back control. No concern for the Ives of the business owners and the lives lost. Just accepted casualties in the quest for a desired end. Fine people those.

  6. If this was an organized effort, where’s the info about the FBI’s work on rolling up the whole organization?
    It looks more like this was two misguided radicals instead of members of a national conspiracy.
    Good to see the plan was foiled, either way.

  7. Nazi white supremacy groups are not right wing. These groups have been created in nation states that are built upon centralized control. The goals if the supremacist can only be achieved in a centralized government. The goals of the socialist can only be achieved in a centralized government. They are both on the left. Just plug in a different group to hate.

    1. “Nazi white supremacy groups are not right wing.”

      Aside from certain features not common to either main party the NAZI party is leftist. National Socialists.

      1. Kayla. The Democrats only agree with National Socialist parties that they like such as the parties in Cuba, Venezuela, and China. As to the last of these, Bill Clinton sponsored the entrance of China to the WTO. Nationalist Socialist parties (including WWII Germany) have some things in common, a socialist vision for their nations, the rest of the world and the silence of the deplorables. In Ancient Rome the aristocracy considered the common men as deplorables. We know that in National Socialist nations the people are ruled by a King with his Consuls in his court. This is the common vision of their philosophy. It can not exist with acceptance of the rights of the people. Be not deceived. The same philosophy exist today and is exercised as in Rome 500 years ago.

        1. You are too ignorant.

          Read non political books and you will see the major points that determine where a political ideology lies on the spectrum.

          Nazi = big government
          Fascism = big government
          Liberal = big government

          Nazi = control over businesses
          Fascism = business and the party work hand in hand
          Liberals = business and the party work hand in hand

          Nazi = the state supersedes the individual
          Fascism = the state supersedes the individual
          Liberal = the state supersedes the individual

          One can go on and on, but if these three big explanations don’t help nothing will.

            1. The problem you have is that all the statements written above are true about Nazism, Fascism and the Democrat Party of today.

              Take one of your favorite subjects Masks. Who is it that wants the federal government to dictate the wearing of masks? It might be a good idea to wear masks. I wear one. But that is bigger government. How about ObamaCare or socialized medicine? That is bigger government as well.

              You are a putz who cannot back up anything he says.

              1. You’re a schmuck, Allan. Both Democrats AND Republicans want big government for some things, and both oppose it for other things. They just put different things in those categories.

                1. There is nothing one can do with an essentially stupid person. Yes, many Republicans do not adhere to conservative / libertarian tradition. That is one reason I would get rid of most of Congress if I had my way. The Democrats of today are far worse, but your personal choice is a ball team that you know nothing about That doesn’t stop you from getting drunk and rooting for that team.

                  You can predict who I will support.

                  Smaller government
                  A free market economy that doesn’t permit the destruction of small businesses or causes unemployment for the working man and woman.
                  One who seeks more protection of the individual.

                  You apparently like larger and larger government.
                  A controlled economy
                  A worker whose salary falls instead of rises
                  Individual rights shifted to the state.

                  There is more but you can correct me on any of these simplistic basic principles I ascribe to you that you differ with.

                    1. Let’s have an impassionate discussion and start small.

                      Nazi’s believe in larger government.
                      Do you believe in larger government?

                      That doesn’t make you a Nazi but it is the opposite belief to the one I ascribe to and others that think like me. You criticize them and link them to Nazi’s.

                    2. LMAO that you want to focus on me, as if anything at all could be concluded about “the left” (millions of people) based on me.

                      Again: Both Democrats AND Republicans want big government for some things, and both oppose it for other things. They just put different things in those categories.

                      Republicans want the government to regulate drugs more than Democrats do. Republicans want the government to regulate abortion more than Democrats do. Republicans wanted marriage regulated more than Democrats. Republicans increase federal spending just like Democrats.

                      You keep trying to change the topic, which was the fact that Nazis are a right-wing group.
                      “The National Socialist German Workers’ Party—also known as the Nazi Party—was the far-right racist and antisemitic political party led by Adolf Hitler.”
                      https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-nazi-party-1

                      You can’t bring yourself to admit this. You object to that truth told by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

                    3. “ LMAO that you want to focus on me, as if anything at all could be concluded about “the left” (millions of people) based on me.”

                      No I want to focus on you to know what you believe. I know that much of your verbiage on the list would make you appear on the left, but I don’t know that you agree with the basic principles of the left. A lot of Democrats don’t.

                      I’m talking about the basic principles of government and federalism. The basic principles laid out in the Constitution.

                      “Republicans increase federal spending just like Democrats.”

                      I already agreed with you earlier on that score. There are, however, Republicans that will work in the direction of a smaller government. If any Democrats are of a similar mindset they will be much fewer in numbers. (Just look at Democrat promises.)

                      I’d like a third party that believes in smaller government. I also want a party that has influence so I will choose the party based on which party will support smaller government and a few other things. How about you?

                      “Republicans want the government to regulate drugs more than Democrats do.”

                      Not so.

                      “Republicans want the government to regulate abortion more than Democrats do. “

                      It would be better put if you said many Republicans do not think the abortion issue is a federal issue. The religious right is against abortion.

                      Most Republicans would accept abortion with limits just like Democrats. I don’t know that there is a vast difference between the bulk of both sides.

                      However, there are Democrats pushing for abortion up to and including letting the child die on the table should there be a failed abortion. I think the idea of abortion is not pleasant to the vast majority of Americans.

                      “Republicans wanted marriage regulated more than Democrats.

                      Not so.

                      The world marriage has a lot of religious connotations. It’s a contract (civil union) recognized by the state with various features that both parties sign onto. Some people get married in church or temple. They are not governed under the law unless specific papers are signed. Gays in the recent past could sign an almost identical contract and be “married” in the same way. What will not apply are federal laws such as social security laws where single people might feel discriminated against.

                      That being said I used to be a Democrat. (I never was a committed Democrat or Republican but there are reasons to be registered on one side or the other as there are reasons to be registered as an independent.) At the time I thought the Democrats promoted civil liberties in a more understandable way than Republicans. I also thought that Republicans should have paid more attention to the working family. I have since switched my reluctant allegiance because the parties switched and my attentions broadened.

                      Take note how your emphasis is more on state issues than federal issues indicating you want a bigger federal government and less federalism. The states are where a lot of these things should be decided and in all those issues we probably would vote in almost the exact same fashion on the state level.

                      What has happened is that political parties demonize the other side for beliefs where they themselves don’t differ that much. A lot has to do with larger or smaller government.

                      In order to function like the Nazi’s one needs lots of control and a larger not smaller government. Small governments protect the individual and allocate specific services where those services are most needed. Decisions made at the lowest level of government are frequently most significant to those in those smaller areas and I believe you can understand why.

                    4. “The National Socialist German Workers’ Party—also known as the Nazi Party—was the far-right racist and antisemitic political party led by Adolf Hitler.””

                      Those are words absent of meaning. An encyclopedia can call a fish a pig but that doesn’t make it true. To discern the differences between the two one looks at their characteristics and then makes a determination. Fish swim. Pigs live on dry land. I don’t think you would call a fish a pig no matter what the encyclopedia said.

                      Lets get back to rational discussion where we recognize a fish to be a fish and a pig to be a pig.

          1. This oversimplification does not in any way place Nazis in the same area of the political spectrum as Democrats or Liberals.

            Some good non-political books on the Nazis: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer; The Coming of the Third Reich by Richard Evans; and, The Tragedy of Nazi Germany by Peter Phillips.

            Phillips notes:

            “It is a mistake to equate a totalitarian ideology with a political theory, and to expect in it the qualities of coherence, rationality, and carefully geared detail to be found in the political theories of such as Plato, Aquinas, Hobbes, or Mill. Political theories and ideologies do not belong to the same species, and thus similarities are superficial and misleading.” (83)

            Phillips includes Hannah Arendt’s concept that ‘a totalitarian ideology is not a coherent body of ideas but, rather, a logical extension of an overriding simple–or over-simplified–idea.’ (82)

            The Nazis cannot be easily placed on a left/right or liberal/conservative spectrum, since they wielded elements of both for their own ends.

            It is particularly unwise right now to be bickering over any left/right, conservative/liberal, Democrat/Republican ‘divide’. The focus should be on where issues fall in regards to liberty vs tyranny. Perhaps that is where the arguments should always be, really.

            Reading Phillips, I was struck by the immediacy and applicability of his concerns to the present day:

            “Total terror breeds total loneliness; total loneliness enables total power.” (83)
            “Liberty is rarely ravished, it is often seduced.” and “liberty is not merely a matter of constitutional freedom.” (76)

  8. Meanwhile, the Left in Pennsylvania are being challenged by PA legislators in a letter to Members of Congress. The DOJ should follow suit.

    In a letter addressed to Democratic Sen. Bob Casey and Republican Sen. Pat Toomey, as well as the state’s representatives in the U.S. House, 64 Republican state-level legislators called out Pennsylvania’s election results, which have already been certified by state officials.
    In their letter, the lawmakers accused Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf and Secretary of State Kathryn Boockvar, both Democrats, of undermining election security.

    “In 2019 the Pennsylvania General Assembly enacted comprehensive changes to our Commonwealth’s Election Code. These changes both expanded voting access by permitting no-excuse mail-in ballots while also implementing reasonable safeguards to ensure that this new system would be secure, transparent, and would ensure that all Americans could have confidence in Pennsylvania’s election results,” the letter said.

    http://www.pahousegopnews.com/AttachedFiles/12.04.20%20Congress%20Election%202020.pdf

    1. The PA state House of Representatives has 203 members. Those 64 are partisan shills. Shame on them to call for PA’s members of Congress to object to PA’s Electoral College votes after losing multiple court cases about those votes in PA.

      We are a country of laws. The courts play a key role. If those PA state Reps had valid legal cases to make, the place to make them is in the courts, not in Congress.

      Trump won one small legal case that didn’t involve many ballots, and he and his allies have lost the rest of their PA cases:
      https://www.democracydocket.com/state/pennsylvania/?by_case_type=post-election

      One of those cases has been appealed to SCOTUS. If SCOTUS chooses not to hear the case, will you accept it? (I’ll accept it if they do choose to hear it, but I doubt they will.)

      1. There are also a lot of partisan shills in Congress:

        Greg Miller (Washington Post National Security reporter):
        “The Post contacted every Republican in Congress to ask who won the election.
        “25 said Biden won
        “2 said Trump won (!)
        “222 refused to answer. @pkcapitol https://t.co/atCWIcRtgD
        https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1335235022853464064

        222 cowards who won’t even answer. Two lying that Trump won. SMH.

        From the article: “Their complicit silence now comes as Trump continues to mount an unfounded campaign against the democratic outcome of an election, leaving them isolated as other federal, state and local Republican officials have rejected Trump’s false assertions.”

        1. “222 cowards who won’t even answer.”

          One could say that 222 Republicans are cowards but at the same time on could say that almost all of the Democrat opposition are liars.

            1. Common knowledge provides all the evidence necessary. But to utilize common knowledge one requires a brain.

        2. Patricia Murphy (Atlanta Journal Constitution reporter): “New: Two sources confirm the call in which Kemp again refused Trump’s demand to overturn election. via @bluestein”
          non-paywalled copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20201205200559/https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/why-kemp-wont-attend-trumps-georgia-rally-on-saturday/4ZGHTTK5YJDIDJ7YVUMTPEIMGY/

          Trump requested that Kemp call a special legislative session and urge state legislators to select their own electors who would support Trump.

          Trump is just a disgusting person. I’m no fan of Kemp’s in general, but I’m glad that he isn’t as craven as some of his fellow Republicans in this and resisted Trump’s pressure.

          Edward-Isaac Dovere (The Atlantic):
          “Trump declares victory before votes are counted
          “-Most GOP leaders say nothing
          “Trump tweets conspiracies
          “-Most GOP leaders say nothing
          “Trump files baseless lawsuits
          “-Most GOP leaders say nothing
          “Trump coerces a governor to overturn results
          “-Most GOP leaders say nothing”

          Recovering from the widespread Republican complicity will take even longer than recovering from Trump himself.

          1. Agreed.

            And not holding trump accountable for what got him impeached is showing catastrophic consequences.

            elvis bug

          2. “I’m no fan of Kemp’s in general, but I’m glad that he isn’t as craven . . .”

            And yet Kemp has the Georgia Bureau of Investigation on the case — some 250 cases, including the debacle at State Farm Arena:

            “Earlier this week, Secretary Raffensperger announced that his office had approximately 250 open investigations related to the 2020 General Election,” Governor Kemp said. “In order for Georgians to receive a timely conclusion to these important investigations, I thank the secretary for formally requesting Georgia Bureau of Investigation assistance in order to provide additional manpower and resources

            1. Sam,

              I pointed out to you 2 days ago that the state **already** investigated ballots at the State Farm Arena and concluded that nothing illegal occurred:
              https://jonathanturley.org/2020/12/04/barrs-appointment-of-special-counsel-leaves-biden-and-democrats-in-a-muddle/comment-page-1/#comment-2032742

              You just don’t want to accept it.

              I have no problem with these things being investigated. If someone broke the law, they should be charged. But if the investigation concludes that nothing illegal occurred then you should be willing to accept that. Unfortunately, you’ve told me that nothing in reality (only fantasy) will change your mind, which means that your mind is closed.

        3. According to The Hill: “JUST IN: Trump demands names of GOP lawmakers who said they recognize Biden as winner of election http://hill.cm/T7ghGUY

          He’s a malignant narcissist, demanding personally loyalty no matter how much it harms the country and harms democratic efforts globally.

  9. Turley: “While right-wing groups still account for more deaths and injuries,”

    ****

    You have to know that statement [probably taken from Wray] is utter rubbish. Unless, of course, one defines Muslim terrorists as ‘right wing’ but we never get that clarification.

    I notice, too, that the FBI is once again taking credit that belongs to local law enforcement.

      1. There are no Muslim domestic terrorists if you ignore the first World Trade Center bomber, the Boston Marathon Bombers, the Pulse Nightclub shooter, the Riverside killers, Major Hassan, the Mohammed Cartoon attempted killing, the Washington DC snipers, and many others, which the FBI and Democrats seem determined to do, ignore them, I mean. I imagine Google, Twitter and Facebook will get around to erasing them or turning them into ‘white supremacists’ before long.

        1. I’m not ignoring any domestic terrorists. Thanks for making my point that if you list Muslim domestic terrorists from the last 25 years, your list isn’t very long.

          1. You missed the “many others” at the end of my examples. Did you know that Sirhan Sirhan was another upset Muslim? Do you know who he is? The list goes back a long way.

            Thank you for the opportunities for me to elaborate.

            1. That anonymous is an absolute idiot who others have classified as crazy. Some have actually made some astute points as to why they think he is crazy and I don’t think many disagree. Look at him day and night posting while creating paranoid fantasies.

      2. There aren’t that many domestic terrorists, but the largest group of domestic terrorists are Muslim. The Muslim community is firmly on the left and amount to some of the left’s strongest supporters. A good number of marches were in part led by Muslims. Look at Omar and her Somali community.

        1. That’s false:

          From Trump’s DHS:

          “WASHINGTON, D.C. — In its first-ever “Homeland Threat Assessment” released on Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security named white supremacist groups as the single most dangerous domestic extremist threat to the nation.

          The report states that “ideologically motivated lone offenders” and small groups of extremists pose the greatest terror threat to the country, with what the department refers to as “Domestic Violent Extremists” presenting the most “persistent and lethal threat.”

          “As Secretary, I am concerned about any form of violent extremism. That is why we design our programs to be threat agnostic – ensuring that we can combat a broad range of domestic threats,” acting DHS secretary Chad Wolf said in a written statement. “However, I am particularly concerned about white supremacistviolent extremists who have been exceptionally lethal in their abhorrent, targeted attacks in recent years.”

          Among these domestic groups, racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists – in particular, white supremacist extremists – are those who pose the greatest national threat, the report notes.

          Since 2018, white supremacist groups have been responsible for more deaths than any other domestic extremist group, the report adds….”

          https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2020/10/07/white-supremacist-groups-pose-greatest-us-domestic-terror-threat

    1. Young the FBI always tries to grab the gold stars.

      Turley was dead wrong. The calculations are based on assumptions. White nationalists are considered right wing even though the prominent white nationalist Richard Spencer voted for Biden. Even some from the so called right wing Boogaloo movement are admitted leftists and anarchists. This is how the left creates their own facts that poorly informed people accept.

      1. S. Meyer–

        Exactly right. When they finally get tired of the violence and destruction by Antifa they will likely start calling it right wing and white supremacist. The re-alignment of facts must never stop to promote the narrative.

        On another matter, I have been thinking of those tens of thousands at Trump rallies who know the election was corrupted and are very unhappy. They are not pleased with the cowardly, evasive courts and spineless Republicans either.

        What next?

        I don’t think ‘Unity’ is one of the cards in this deck.

        1. Young, history has played these scenarios out time and time again. Almost everyone gets hurt including generations not yet born. The left eventually becomes suicidal and starts eating their own. Note the purges in the 20th century communist nations. Note the guillotine earlier. The dumbest of the lot likely will survive because they don’t pose a threat to leadership. We have a few on this blog. They are like cockroaches, no brains but an ability to survive.

  10. While right-wing groups still account for more deaths and injuries,

    What’s the point of labeling these domestic terrorists as left-wing or right-wing? Don’t the wings, out to the tips, represent those still believing in our constitutional republic and our rule of law? If not, shouldn’t it? Anyone that acts as a threat to our safety, security of rights and governing institutions is not functionally any different than foreign enemies. Label/prosecute/convict them as the domestic enemies that they are and get them out of circulation.

    Put it another way: these ideologies that undermine and put at risk the survival of this country have and will continue to infect more people than this Covid-19.

  11. “new such case against two women associated with Antifa “

    Take note they are from the left. They are from the same leftist and and anarchist groups that the leftist mayors and governors permitted to destroy cities.

    Some of the Boogaloo violence which is almost non-existent compared to Antifa and the left appear to be from that type of individual that leftists have been permitting to run rampant.

  12. “While right-wing groups still account for more deaths and injuries,”

    Turley needs to produce a list of all injuries and deaths. Then he could mark those that are right wing (not Richard Spencer types that support Biden) and then look at the rest of the list to notice how the vast number of attacks were not designated. The vast majority of those come from the left though many will be listed from some other group. (Simply looking at the films where the riots took place add huge amounts of injury and those riots were from the left and many of the people involved funded the left.)

  13. Describing yourself as an, “anarchist, anti-fascist, autonomous anti-capitalist, anti-colonialist,” is essentially claiming to be, “a far right, far left, far right, leftist hypocrite.”

    What a pair of morons.

  14. What? No white supremacists or militia involved. These 2 were probably part of the summer of love in Portland.

      1. Apparently so. Whites invented trains.

        And phones, computers, movies, airplanes, antibiotics, sterilization, steam engines, anesthetics, nuclear power, power plants, cars, television, universities, radio….

            1. Less than 5% of the soldiers in the War of Independence were AfricanAmericans and only half of them served in combat position.

              Kudos to all the soldiers including the African-American soldiers that served and kudos to those that have served since.

              Your attitude is somewhat racist. You look at African-Americans as black Americans. I look at African-Americans as Americans who so happen to be African-American. In case you don’t know which is a possibility All Americans bleed the same color.

              Totally irrelevant to the discussion: What color blood does the octopus have and why? Do you know? Look it up. I had a long discussion today on the phone with one of my younger grandchildren explaining that not all blood is red.

              I try and make all of them read books and study so that when they grow up they will be more intelligent than they otherwise would have been. That hint, perhaps is too late for you.

  15. And let the legal system, which the defendants apparently deplored pre-arrest, work with the presumption of innocence, a fair trial, and competent defense counsel

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