The Trump Administration May Have Its First Domestic Terrorism Case

download-1We have been discussed the arrests associated with two attacks on New York police officers using Molotov cocktails.  However, two radical young lawyers may have handed the Trump Administration the perfect case to frame as domestic terrorism in the wake of the controversy over President Donald Trump declaring that he would designate Antifa a terrorist organization.  I criticized such a designation as legally unfounded and constitutionally dangerous. However, as we discussed yesterday, Colinford Mattis, 32, and Urooj Rahman, 31, may have supplied an alternative avenue in using ample federal laws to prosecute attacks as domestic terrorism without the need of any formal designation.  The two defendants are expected to be released on bail today.

While many of us noted that a designation of a terrorist organization is generally a process handled by the State Department for “foreign terrorist organizations,” commentary often ignored that such a designation is not needed to treat defendants as domestic terrorists (as opposed to trying to declare the amorphous Antifa movement as a terrorist organization).


The case could be framed perfectly as a test case of the Administration treating defendants as domestic terrorists under the definition in subsection 5 of 18 U.S.C. 2331:

The term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended—(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

Indeed, these attorneys may be accused of a terrorist trifecta under the governing law.  They clearly acted in a way “dangerous to human life … [in] violation of the criminal law;” “appear to be intended” to intimidate or coerce or to influence policy or affect conduct of mass destruction.” If the Justice Department is looking for a way to reframe cases as domestic terrorism this would seem the case that they are looking for.

18 U.S.C. § 2332A also prohibits material support for acts of terrorism and the allegation that the two attorneys were attempting to hand out Molotov cocktails could be viewed as both as a case of direct terroristic acts as well as material support. The provision includes 57 different federal criminal statutes that the code calls “federal crimes of terrorism.”

Likewise, the Code of Federal Regulations at 28 C.F.R. §0.85 defines “terrorism” as including “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

The FBI has a long-standing policy on handling such crimes as domestic terrorism and a policy to open parallel terrorism investigations in such cases.  It guidelines include the following instructions that

The FBI defines terrorism as an “unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any element thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.” The mission of the Domestic Terrorism Program (DTP) is to detect, deter, prevent, and respond to Domestic Terrorist Organizations (DTO) or individuals who threaten or conduct domestic terrorist activities within the United States. (See the forthcoming Counterterrorism Policy Implementation Guide.) (U) While HC investigations focus on crimes against a person or property and are motivated, in whole or in part, by the individual’s prejudice against a race, religion, ethnicity, or national origin, DT investigations focus on crimes that are committed for political or social reasons by organized extremist groups. An example of a political agenda is an anarchist group carrying out activities to overthrow the government. Incidents related to a social agenda include criminal activities carried out by extremist groups in the animal rights or environmental movements.

(U//FOLIO) When an HC occurs, and in an effort to bring consistency to classifying investigations that may be addressed under the CR and DT programs in which the subject has a nexus to any type of white supremacy extremist group, the investigation must have a dual caption…

The Justice Department has previously declared defendants to be domestic terrorists, including members of white supremacist groups.  There was no objection to that effort in the media or some commentators. Indeed, many encouraged the treating of such groups and cases as domestic terrorism.  Many wanted the Charlottesville case treated as terrorism, as Attorney General Jeff Sessions referenced it in the same terms.  However, it was ultimately framed as a hate crime not terrorism in the prosecution and plea agreement of James Fields.  Likewise, the attack of Robert Bowers at the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue was prosecuted largely under hate crime laws. However, cases like the El Paso shooting were immediately framed as domestic terrorism investigations.

The case of two attorneys will likely appeal to the Justice Department as a demonstrative case for domestic terrorism.  The defendants are less than appealing as lawyers who allegedly became law breakers.  They had lives that many would relish. Mattis graduated from New York University School of Law in 2016 and received his bachelor’s degree from Princeton University. He was also previously employed as an associate at Holland & Knight.  Rahman was just admitted to the New York bar in June 2019 after graduating from Fordham University School of Law.  Rather than use their training to help others legally, they are accused of trying to distribute explosive or inflammable devices to attack police.  In other words, from the perspective of the Administration, they walked right out of central casting for a domestic terrorism case highlighting such crimes as an attack on the very notion of the rule of law.

As a criminal defense attorney, this would be a case that begged for a plea deal, but it is not clear that the prosecutors would be eager to bring the case to such an expedited closure. That is the particular irony here.  These two young attorneys may have supplied the very case that the Administration was seeking at the very time it needed it was needed most.


209 thoughts on “The Trump Administration May Have Its First Domestic Terrorism Case”

  1. Looking in the mirror again and seeing the proof of the universal empty field theory turned into a proven law? Translation. The educate literates version of The Stupid Party hiding behind it’s machine programmer smetya.

    George Carlin described your non-kind as Political correctness is fascism parading as manners.

        1. Well, it provides a rational explanation as to why logic, facts, evidence, reason have not and will not change the minds of the anti-Trump crowd. Watch it, don’t watch it. But if you do and are not convinced, then I’m ready to hear reasons why.

          1. Very few if any TDS crowd that I communicate with on this blog will change their mind, why did you think I thought otherwise? Aside from other things leftism is or has become a faith based religion.

            1. Very few if any TDS crowd that I communicate with on this blog will change their mind, why did you think I thought otherwise?

              LOL! That makes perfect sense. Whatever you do, don’t let me interrupt your regularly scheduled pursuit of whatever you believe you’re accomplishing.

              1. Olly, when you were in the navy not every action taken on your ship was in the direction the navy was taking. There are always a lot of other reasons.

                1. when you were in the navy not every action taken on your ship was in the direction the navy was taking.

                  You and I must have been in different navies. I will admit that the more junior in rank you go, the less likely a sailor understands the reasons for what the ship is doing. But the direction is always within strategic plan and always rational. Captain’s don’t go rogue or they lose their command.

                  I’m apparently not been briefed on your plan. That’s why it appears irrational. Good luck.

                  1. I didn’t say your captain wasn’t following orders.

                    What was the purpose of George Patton setting up a false army before D Day?

                    “You and I must have been in different navies.”

                    We both served our duty but perhaps in different lines of duty.

                    1. I served for 2 years at FLTCORGRU1 in Coronado, CA. Their name changed to Fleet Deception Group. In their early years they were known as Beach Jumpers. We were about 100 yards up the beach from Seal Team 5 for a reason. Pretty cool job.

          2. Yeah, because Trump is clearly the voice of evidence and reason.


          3. I havent seen it but i watched the first few minutes and I get the premise.

            Mass propaganda is absolutely part of what Hollywood is all about

            Olly, it’s good you shared this.

            But I am not so sure government controls content; perhaps content controllers, that is to say, mass media oligarchs, control government? and it is a reinforcing cycle.

            Case in point: Time Life Publisher Henry Luce. Awesome power. And most have never even heard of him. Amazing power. Tremendous influence. Deep involvement in decades of American international geopolitical strategy and domestic policy too.

            and today, look at how Twitter presumes to scold the president and block him on their “private media”

            The American state is actually quite weak if you see it in relationship to the massive power of global finance, which is hand in glove with global media.

            The American can even the score, but it will take things we haven’t seen before in this country, and have been taught are wrong. Most of all: that the state itself must not be under the control of organized public interests.

            Really, if the state serves the people, then the state is the only tool that can even the score between the people and the global oligarchs.

            Mr Xi and Mr Putin get this. They have tamed their billionaires. With the measures that work., In those societies, there is law and order and the billlionairs are not allowed to openly foment insurrection and civil war.

            Mr Trump doesn’t. He is presented as a tyrant but he is nothing of the sort. Ha, not even close. right now he just look weak. Maybe he will rally in the fifth hour?

            Oooh, did I just suggest something extreme, dramatic, severe?

            Only because you have been taught to believe it is. Free free free. Oh blah blah blah.

            Read Plato’s Republic and we can understand, controlling the richest troublemakers in any society is actually the sine qua non of a strong government that truly serves the people.

            This is why they want to unleash the poor rioters. They want to distract us from the top.

            the worst criminals today? Who knows but probably to be found either on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. Hollywood is one step down, at their service.

            1. PS of course in Russia and the PRC there is a lot of corruption and trials are often sketchy. but when i say “there is law and order” i mean at least there isnt rioting in all the major cities. Which is absolutely intolerable for a civilized society.

              There is no excuse for apologizing for these riots looting and arson., For those people who want to keep on soft pedalling it, you are fools and one day the riot may find you and you may think differently if you are left able to think at all once the savages are done with you.

              So order, order most of all, is the necessary condition of all culture and the dividing line between savagery and civilization.

              And right now order is in a state of near collapse. Don’t assume it will all just get better folks; it might just get worse

            2. Good post Kurtz, thank you. Hollywood, entertainment industry in general, news media, social media; do not spontaneously align on messaging. The video gets very specific on this and other things.

  2. Someone here, probably Seth, questioned my judgment when I doubted the Lancet study on hydroxychloroqine.

    Guess who else has doubts about the study now. LANCET

    “The Lancet medical journal on Tuesday issued an “expression of concern” over the validity of a recent study suggesting that the anti-malarial drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine raise the risk of death and heart complications in hospitalized COVID-19 patients.

    More than a hundred outside experts have raised questions and skepticism about the data and analysis, even as researchers halted clinical trials in light of the study’s findings.”.

    1. You were right Young and so was I. I pointed out some of the early peer review showing problems with this bogus study, which had huge data problems.

      But will any of them now apologize? I doubt it.

      1. No, they won’t apologize, nor will they change their stance. It is politics rather than facts.

        1. Ha. That’s why you guys trying to do trump’s work in justifying hydroxychloroquine are so willing to recognize where you’re wrong in its use in the treatment of Covid, right?

          1. It’s funny but a lot of MD’s in NYC treating Covid patients are on hydroxychloroquin. A lot filled prescriptions for their families in case it is needed. But, here is Hellvis in typical fashion being a blowhard. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn’t so people rely on the lower levels of proof even those of the experts on the scene.

            1. And research has shown hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. A lot of doctors take amphetamines, painkillers, etc. Doesn’t make them smart for doing it.

              Show me the evidence hydroxychloroquine *does* work or STFU.

              1. ha ha

                those Wapoo articles from about 2 weeks ago, saying that LANCET had published an authoritative article disproving hcq+ therapy?

                as I told you that study had a lot of flaws

                maybe you thought I was BS ing you maybe, some people insulted me, when i said data problems, design problems, dubious qualifications, etc.

                but guess what the peer review is in and it was VICIOUS


                so until there is a properly designed, double blind, placebo controlled study, executed rigorously and peer reviewed for quality


                now if and when a proper study discredits it, fine
                but the one they ran in Lancet was a stinker

                stop politicizing science! isnt that what you guys say to “climate deniers?”

                1. Kurtz, didn’t think you were BS’ing. Just deflecting because not one thing you just wrote, intellectually masturabatory though it may be, from a scientific standpoint means anything. hcq hasn’t been proven not to work, nor has it been proven to work and I tend to count you in the group easily buffaloed by fake science due to your thoughts on this.

                  Taken back to what I responded to the blowhard Allan with, show me the proof it *does* work or STFU, I will double, triple, quadruple down on that.

                  So while I bow down to the throne of your intellect and worship every word you utter, I just can’t take anything you just said seriously because it just sucks too much.

                  1. “Taken back to what I responded to the blowhard Allan with, show me the proof it *does* work or STFU, I will double, triple, quadruple down on that.”

                    The abusive boor is at it again. Hellvis should spend more time on understanding what he reads then in spellchecking. STFU demonstrates the boor has great difficulty expressing himself.

                  2. ha ha hellvis you understood me just fine

                    dig into it and you will see

                    1. Actually have dug into it a good bit and am certain hcq just won’t make the team especially in a preventative sense…

                      Much more success will be had nutritionally in that regard.

                    2. hcq plus zinc is the recommended prophylactic therapy and azithromycin.

                      zinc is key. is that what you mean by nutrition? zinc rich foods?

                      some of the earlier “discrediting” studies did not include zinc with the hcq. they need to include zinc to properly test the therapy that the doctors have been trying with anecdotal results. these doctors were not saying hcq alone. the guys that were trying it, the french guy, the doctor who treated the jewish cluster in New Jersey, were all saying hcq plus zpac plus zinc

                      when they get around to a valid study, if it disproves effectiveness of hcq, fine, i could care less. i am just not going along with it because the grey lady says so

                      it shouldn’t take too much longer to put this together since they have also been using it widely in costa rica and now in india. let them get a proper testing regime together already.

                    3. Kurtz demonstrates the ridiculous contortions an educated person goes through to justify whatever comes out of Trump’s a.s. – hurricane maps showing Alabama, quack medical advice , doesn’t matter. Dear Leader can not be wrong.

                      Here’s the take away: Listen to the experts, not the BS in chief with his own agenda of self aggrandizing lies. Why do adults even need to be told this?

                      It’s not difficult.

                    4. Zinc is good. Vit. A, D & K. Herbs that act as a tonics to the immune system writ large. Stop thinking of drugs as preventatives, their wheelhouse is crisis management.

                    5. “Stop thinking of drugs as preventatives, their wheelhouse is crisis management.”

                      Hellvis, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous and doesn’t matter how small that knowledge is. Do you know what people who go to Africa get when they take Zinc, A, D and K ? They get Malaria. It is when people follow your stupid advice that they require crisis management.

                2. Kurtz, Hellvis cannot think for himself so don’t think for a minute that he will be able to understand the article you posted. If a leftwing think tank changes its mind he will as well. Alternatively he will check with a family member. He is not smart enough to think on his own.

                  1. If hellvis is saying the first defense is a healthy immune system in a healthy body, of course., the comorbidities of diabetes, heart disease, obesity, are all related to covid fatality.

                    vitamin supplements are good but a proper diet is even more important., this is sound science.

                    but yes antivirals may have a prophylactic role in this sars cov 2, this is under experimental treatment and the “experts” have to actually conduct proper medical research to validate their hypotheses. that is science. it looks to qualifications yes but not to authority

                    so the jury is still out on HCQ+ but eventually we will hopefully get a better picture of its efficacy than what we have now. it may be that the anecdotal evidence of efficacy is not statistically signficant. this is what they were recently saying about remesdivir if I understand it correctly.

                    this article discusses the mechanisms of action of zinc in immune system response


                    1. Kurtz, what Hellvis was thinking about was ” Stop thinking of drugs as preventatives” which is plain stupid when one considers the hydroxychloroquine is used to prevent Malaria.

                      I took a quick look at the article and now I am licking my ground rods. 🙂

                3. We who have sense already know it works. No appeal to any new authority is worth a dime.
                  Remdesevir is $4,600.00 a dose, so those studying are certain to find HCQ totally irrelevant.
                  Am I saying they are corrupt as the day at the equator is long ?
                  Yes, of course I am.

                  I’ve already seen the multiple results of HCQ, the results are already beyond any gov or pinhead investor study, period.

                  There’s another alternate too. Doxycycline and Ivermectin
                  Near 100% effective.

                  The lies of the overlords are on steroids. Now the whole world is the lab that has proven them to be what they are. Full of it. They want the study money the Trump hate and the expensive alternatives they make bank on, only.

              2. The research leaves the answer in doubt. Physician use of hydroxychloroquine isn’t to get them high. Their use is based on what they think they are seeing in the trenches.

                Hellvis, you tell everyone to STFU because you are an ignorant boor with no self respect or self control. You are much ike your twin.

                I am preserving the right of physicians to make an educated guess like they do every day in their lives. If it turns out that they are wrong it won’t be the first time. You are too silly to understand even the most obvious way of making a decision so you are the last person who should be commenting on this question.

                1. Didn’t say physicians use hcq to get high, clever though it may be to deflect with that.

                  And I don’t tell everyone to STFU. Just you.

                  1. Brainless Twit. You have used STFU many times. In fact you have been thrown off the list for your abusive behavior.

                    I can see you have difficulty understanding why physicians take hcq. They believe it might work and they will change to something better if other evidence is produced. Thank goodness you don’t have a license to practice medicine or there would be a lot of dead bodies around.

                    1. Allan, I’d be shocked if you remember the way back to the kitchen.

                    2. “Allan, I’d be shocked if you remember the way back to the kitchen.”

                      What an intellect. What a Twit.

                    3. “Allan is a one trick pony. All he knows is to begin with insults and then play disingenuous games. ”

                      Really? Is that why you are left playing the part of a twit? I only insult those that deserve insult such as boorish insulting twins. You are easy because there is no intellect one has to worry about.

                    4. HCQ is improving breathing/lungs in 4-5 hours, fever gone in 1-2 days and recovery in several more.

                      Nothing anyone says here or anywhere will change that.

                    5. That may or may not be so. We don’t know for sure. What physicians do when they don’t have objective proof is use the best proof available and sometimes the proof is a bunch of anecdotes or people considered to have high standing intellectually. Too many people are playing politics which doesn’t belong in medicine.

                  2. the claim of risk of heart problems arising from hcq+ prophylactic therapy is fatuous.

                    hcq is an old drug with very well known risk profile. it is dispensed over the counter in tropical regions.

                    the indian cardiologists who allegedly poured through tens of thousands of patient charts to form their conclusions in the deeply flawed lancet article were supposedly relying on “infomatic analysis” from some fly by night company that just established itself recently. i suspect they were just playing to a politically predetermined editorial bias which has been openly displayed by LANCET in previous publications, ginning up what the pooh bahs wanted to hear, which is why they published it in the first place. now they have egg on their face at Lancet, again

                    the peer review is withering, read it for yourself

                    stop politicizing science! right?

                    I’ll add another thing. how many of these articles about the sars cov 2 virus which rely on DNA analysis which has been performed in PLA labs by PLA scientists, has fully disclosed that in fact yes, this is what the PLA says and maybe the PLA is biased since maybe the PLA has an incentive to hide the truth about the subject?

                    not many is the answer; none have actually been frank about that. if there was attribution to PLA sources then it was in the fine print

                    PLA is the People’s Liberation Army of the PRC that is to say China

                    they had a fig leaf of some Australian scientist riding the coat tails on one study that’s been gobbled up by the NYT-WAPOO combine as dogma, maybe if I am bored I will dig out these things later.

                    not that anybody would admit they were wrong if they were. see, the saddest thing here, as is the case with global warming, is not that there isn’t a global warming, but that an honest and rigorous debate is not allowed because it is already a cornerstone of a certain political agenda

                    likewise now the covid; there is a real disease, there is a real pandemic, there are reasonable public health measures; but even to dare to question the countervailing costs to those health measures such as economic effects and secondary unintended consequences of those effects, is to offend a certain political agenda and bias that is held uniformly throughout the NYT-Wapoo echo chamber and intellectual stovepipe.

                    in other words, we have problems but no realistic chance of solving them since public debate is always and instantaneously politicized by a well organized team of Democratic party strategists and their collaborators and agents in every bureaucracy.

                    Soon we will be like the PRC where if you are lucky the CHicoms understand the problem and handle it. Or if they don’t well then you are out of luck because only the Chicoms have any authority or power whatsoever. So if they are wrong there, well, you are just scrkwed.

                    At least here we still have a slim fighting chance of a “diversity of opinion” and using reason and facts to debate something and come to a fact based conclusion. It’s possible, and sometimes happens in spite of all our manifest failings.

              3. Show me the evidence hydroxychloroquine *does* work or STFU.

                Explain why you need someone on this blog to show you the evidence, one way or the other? Are you taking medical advice from a legal blog? Are you going to tell your doctor that prescribes HCQ for you, that you don’t want it because an anonymous source on a legal blog didn’t provide you compelling evidence it works?

                Show me the evidence HCQ “doesn’t” work. And you choose whether to STFU or not.

                  1. and why would a smart fellow like you want to come such an infestation of idiots, just to call names, or do you have a prophetic message we are missing?

                    1. It’s entertaining to a point. Educational as well. I’ve always been fascinated by POV’s other than my own. So I learn things about people’s mindsets that are completely foreign to me. Obviously, when honors students like Allan latch on the entertainment value drops significantly.

                      As far as the name calling, I just respond in kind. Just trace back up the thread, Kurtz. I will never open up with personal insults just out of the gate like is standard fare on this blog, at times (though minimally) even by yourself.

                      Allan is a one trick pony. All he knows is to begin with insults and then play disingenuous games. You’re clearly a lawyer, when you play games I can tell it’s a result of your training combined with being a trumper…

                      But as to flipping the script on me as being the cause of name calling, that’s the sort of ridiculous simplicity reserved for Allan, Kurtz. Leave that mess at the Trump rallies, please.

                  2. As far as the name calling, I just respond in kind.

                    Either you’re a liar, or admitting your own personal failings. Because my post to you had legitimate questions without a personal attack. So which is it?

    1. National Lawyer’s Guild are a far left radical organization’

      they should not be disbarred for their radical subversive beliefs, as i support the free speech of lawyers including to utter radical extreme and even hateful ideas,

      however, if they are involved in criminal conspiracies, then they too can be charged with crimes

      simple legal advice on what is lawful and what is not, is not engaging in criminal conspiracy.
      but as a lot of criminal defense lawyers who took money from drug dealers have found out, the government can crack down hard when it chooses too, and judiciary won’t really stand in the way

  3. What a crock. Trump and his administration cheered on the Hong Kong “protesters” who made heaps of Molotov cocktails, threw them at cops, and used them to burn and trash property. A large stockpile was even found in the ruins of a university. Trump and co including the whole political establishment on both right and left endorsed this behaviour in HK but want to crush it with maximum violence in the u.s.a. Mind bending hypocrisy from total human scum.

    1. Oh, lookee. Trolls courtesy the Chinese government. You’re on the map, Professor.

    2. I denounced the destruction of property in HK even as I applauded peaceful protests.
      I do not recall Trump ever explicitly encouraging vandalism or arson in HK. He did not. that is false.

      The US is not using “maximum violence” to curtail riots. It is not using even enough violence. Obviously so as anarchy spreads.

      Ray Hines is however spouting CCP propaganda on cue. You know “ray” that you can get fifty cents of a yuan for a post like this if you’re in China? Here you probably are working for free. sad

  4. King Donald the Mad is the domestic terrorism instigator.

    Causes police riots.

    1. for a mathematician you have an incredibly poor grasp of social cause in human events

      better stick to symbols benson, real world things appear beyond your ken

      1. You still support Trump. You have no standing to question anyone’s judgement on humans and human events.

        1. Book I have standing to question other humans because i am human

          and i have free speech as an American even though you guys want to silence those who support trump. i don’t have standing you say! what a ridiculous remark.

          you should be ashamed of yourself, presuming you still consider yourself a liberal, that is

          1. It is true Kurtz that you meet the lowest common standard for having an opinion.

            I haven’t advocated silencing anyone. You have.

      2. Kurz– That is not unusual for mathematicians. Read about Kurt Godel, for example. That said, I find Benson interesting and informative at times.

        1. mathematicians are usually smart and benson probably is too

          he’s just letting his mouth run free with an un-provable assertion about trump

          this is why he usually confines himself to cryptic remarks, an elaborate complete sentence may get him in trouble

          1. His book was computer science, before cognitive decline set in.

  5. Governor Cuomo is blaming Trump, he’s blaming DeBlasio, Governor Cuomo could take control of the situation in New York City.

    1. I’m not sure which is worse; these liberal governors and mayors being absolutely incompetent at good governance, or they are willfully refusing to do anything that would reflect well on President Trump. In either case, it’s the taxpayers that are suffering the consequences.

      1. When Trump said stop the rioting, killing, looting and arson, the Democrat mayors and governors seemed to respondby pulling their police forces back and refusing to activate the National Guard.
        Governor Northam of Virginia refused to activate the National Guard to stop the rioting in DC, since he said he didn’t want them to be involved in a photo-op.
        New York police union representatives have said city hall is pulling them back and letting the rioting and looting go unchecked.
        Is it all just a response to Trump saying it should stop?
        The human tragedy of the rioting and murder is unfathomable.

        1. Show me:

          “The human tragedy of the rioting and murder is unfathomable.”

          It’s easy: they hate the country and will burn the nation to “save” it. They’re revolutionaries and should be fought at every turn.

          1. One of the cardinal rules in a counter insurgency is never recognize the participants as any thing more than common criminals. which in effect is what they are. Nothing more and nothing less.

            1. mike that is at the level of public relations.

              at the level of strategic planning, they definitely have to recognize and organized insurgency so they can identify the leadership structure and root it out

              phoenix program is the way to go, before long. let it rip as far as Im concerned

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