Will Pot Save The President? Michigan Judge Orders Forensic Investigation of Roughly Two Dozen Dominion Voting Machines

The Trump campaign finally succeeded in one of its challenges yesterday to the extent that it was granted a court order for access and a forensic investigation of roughly two dozen Dominion voting machines. The machines are located in rural Antrim County where roughly 6000 votes were initially assigned to President-elect Joe Biden but then corrected and tabulated in favor of President Donald Trump. Four weeks ago, we discussed this controversy and the concern that such acknowledged human error could occur in other districts. The order from Judge Kevin Elsenheimer, however, concerns not the presidential election but a recounting of ballots in a village marijuana proposal.

Even though the challenge by voter William Bailey concerned legalized marijuana, Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani proclaimed a great victory for “BIG WIN FOR HONEST ELECTIONS.”

The actual order concerns a recounting of the marijuana proposal in the Village of Central Lake that passed by one vote.  However, it will afford critics the first crack at Dominion machines to justify their claims of tampering with votes.

For weeks, I have been expressing skepticism over the campaign challenges but also criticism of the Biden campaign for opposing such efforts to examine these allegations. There have been unlawful orders and voting irregularities.  The problem for the Trump campaign has been establishing systemic errors or fraud that would overturn any of these state elections.  There is also the “sticker shock” problem in seeking to block certification of the state electoral votes. Finally, the campaign has been stymied in its effort to gain access to evidence, and machines, in the possession of the election officials.

I am gladdened by the order not because I think that it is likely to uncover any problem. I do not. Rather, polls show that up to 90 percent of Republicans and even a fair number of Democrats believe question the legitimacy of this election. With roughly 74 million voting for President Trump, such doubts are dangerous for this country which remains a virtual powder keg. The best option is greater scrutiny and transparency.

We have had failures of leadership on both sides. President Trump has fueled the anger not by seeking challenges, which is his right. He has field by anger by declaring the election “stolen” and “rigged” and acting officials like Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger the “enemy of the people.” President-elect Biden failed to see that this country’s divisions will not be resolved — even partially — without greater scrutiny.  He should have declared immediately that his campaign would not oppose judicial review of any and all election challenges.

Many of these cases have been dismissed on standing or laches or other threshold challenges. This order will assure skeptical voters that access to evidence has been granted.  It will not persuade many if no problems are found, but it could persuade some. Otherwise, we will be left with same unadulterated rage from the last four years.

That is why I am gladdened by the order and hope that, to the greatest extent possible, such access can be granted in the future. Otherwise, we are looking at an exceptionally destructive and even dangerous period in our history.

 

235 thoughts on “Will Pot Save The President? Michigan Judge Orders Forensic Investigation of Roughly Two Dozen Dominion Voting Machines”

  1. Turley claims: “Finally, the campaign has been stymied in its effort to gain access to evidence, and machines, in the possession of the election officials.” Turley: you know good and well that lawsuits BEGIN with evidence, not with sore feelings fueled by narcissism because Trump cannot handle losing an election. You don’t file a lawsuit, especially one in which an injunction is sought, without first having evidence. Court after court has held there is NO evidence. But, given the stakes and the unlimited ego of the fat orange slob in the White House, and his ability to bully lawyers and politicians into doing his will and Republican politicians refusing the criticize him or acknowledge Biden’s victory, they’re going to try to come up with something against Dominion software or hardware or both. Trump cannot be wrong. Trump cannot lose. His campaign will pay good money. Lots of it. Fox News even came up with a doctor to deny the benefits of handwashing, social distancing and wearing masks and who actually said that Dr. Fauci doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Trump came up with the “devil semen” doctor who claimed that hydroxychloroquine cures COVID. Experts can be purchased. We all know where this is going.

    And, because Turley must find some way to normalize the abnormal and to downgrade Biden, he criticizes Biden for “opposing” Trump’s fantasy land claims of fraud. The Biden campaign has stayed out of the fray, and has never even entered an appearance, much less briefed any of these claims, all of which have been brought against election officials in various states. Why should the campaign get involved? Why should it dignify lies by encouraging endless re-counts of votes, re-checking of signatures…anything to prolong certification? Trump is a pathological liar. Why won’t you believe your buddy, Billy Barr, Turley, when he says there’s no evidence of fraud that could overturn this election? You keep trying to normalize the absurdly abnormal.

      1. And yet Nutacha is incorrect about the law.

        By her logic, you would never need discovery in a law suit – because unless you can prove the case entirely beyond a reasonable doubt, it must be immediately dismissed.

        1. Actually, this type of lawsuit might only have to meet the “preponderance of evidence” standard. This is a lower bar than “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

          1. You are not owed anything – you are not even willing to use a pseudonym

            REgardless, Please read my pose AGAIN. Any insult is a tangent – address the actual argument or ceed it.

    1. Nutacha – so in left wing nut world – it is not possible to investigate fraud – because the evidence of the fraud is only in the posession of the fraudsters ?

      Regardless, you are incorrect. You need a bare minimum of evidence in a lawsuit necescary to demand discovery. That is all.

      The mere fact that the Fulton county director of elections lied to several different media sources claiming that they stopped vote counting at 10:30pm and sent everyone home including legally required observers – and they did not, is more than enough to proceed to discovery.

  2. Pingback: Gray Area
  3. Dominion’s Corruptible Machines, and the Machinations of Its Corrupt Security Chief

    If a credit card company’s security were this porous, and its head of security this dirty — there would be breathless media coverage, executives hauled in front of Congress, and hundred-million dollar fines and settlements waiting in the wings.

    But since the preferred candidate was declared the victor, there’s nary a word.

    In their world: The ends justifies the means.

    1. Unfortunately credit card secutity may well be this bad.

      Eastern European hackers manage atleast 32B in credit care fraud every year.

    1. “A man like him who is willing to take on anybody. Anybody! Even the mighty United Nations. Even China could not do that. But Mr. Trump, against all odds, is standing all alone.”

      “Between November 3 and January 20, anything can happen to overturn.”

      “Keep praying until he is installed, inaugurated on January 20.”

        1. Of course Trump will leave if that is the case. But make no mistake, Biden will fail. He won by cheating. His campaign was based on lies and hate. Biden is corrupt, his family is owned by China, and Biden’s handlers are hiding the fact that he is a senile old man. Kamala is both unelectable and unlikeable and has no business being elevated to the White House by way of fraud, lies and cheating. A Biden/Harris administration will inevitably fail.

          1. I honestly hope that Biden has a successful presidency – for the benefit of all of us.

            But if you asked me to bet – not a chance.

            Democrats have everything going against them – starting with their ideology does not work.

            Gaining power is a self punishing act.

            Biden must deliver – and he can not.

            He must placate the left – or they will abandon the democratic party likely for good.

            He must deliver a robust economy – which he can not do if he placates the left.

            1. Joe Biden is a mess. A senile old man who has no business being in the Oval Office.

              Biden today misread his teleprompter, yet again, and the voice in his earpiece corrected him, yet again —>

              “For Secretary of Health and Education Services, I nominate Xavier Bacheria.”

              It’s Health and Human Services, not Education Services.

              And his name is Xavier Becerra, not Bacheria.

              Biden doesn’t know which end is up. What a disgrace the fake news media are for continuing the covering up of just how old and senile Biden really is. They did it throughout the election and they are doing it now. Shameful.

              1. Biden’s presidency is likely to be a self punishing act for Democrats.

                One of the problems with winning – is that you must both govern and payoff those who got you elected.

                Democrats have $10B in political debt to pay off – as well as a huge debt to the left.
                And while doing it they must actually have peace and prosperity.

                Everyday I hear nonsense from Biden and I am tempted to point out it is idiocy.

                I am asked by people about his nominees – Who Cares ?

                Moderate Dems. left wing nuts, Obama retreads – does not matter ?

                Biden can not govern. Democrats can not govern. They do not know what they are doing.

                The very best we can expect is 4 more years of Obama.

          2. You wrote: “A Biden/Harris administration will inevitably fail.” I agree, but at what cost to our national security and our national pride? Our confidence in the election process is trashed. What a gawd-awful mess.

            1. “but at what cost to our national security”
              One we can afford to pay. It may be messy. It may cost lives.
              The americna people will pay.
              But so will democrats.

              “and our national pride?”
              Those who are proud of this country will remain so.
              Those who are not won’t.

              “Our confidence in the election process is trashed. What a gawd-awful mess.”

              That is a consequence of the “by any means necescary” approach of democrats.

              The problem with breaking the rules and ignoring the law – is anyone can do it.

              Republicans have seen what democrats are willing to do.
              They have seen that the courts will not correct the problem – either before or after the fact.
              They have seen that the media will bury malfeasance.

              They will proceed in the future assuming that.

              It is pretty trivial to solve the problems that resulted in this mess.

              One way would be to follow the law.
              But given that democrats will not follow the law – there are many other choices.

  4. LINKED:

    QUESTIONING ELECTION AND PANDEMIC

    If you doubted coronavirus presented a national health emergency, then the need for mail-in ballots probably seemed contrived.

    A loyal Trump supporter might have thought the virus was simply this year’s flu. From a perspective such as this one could reason Democrats were exploiting the flu as a pretense for mail-in ballots.

    Therefore if Democrats exploited the pandemic, rigging the election is not a big leap. It was the logical thrust of the plot they devised.

    One should note, however, that Donald Trump predicted the virus would disappear after Election Day. But just the opposite occurred. The pandemic surged with cold weather as Dr Fauci predicted.

    Trump was terribly mistaken about the pandemic. So why should his election claims be any more credible??

    Logically one could guess Trump lost the election because he consistently miscalculated the entire pandemic.

    1. “If you doubted coronavirus presented a national health emergency, ”
      What does this even mean ?

      C19 is real – almost no one doubts that. It is highly contageous and 2-3 times more fatal than the flu with excellent treatment, and possible 5 times as fatal without.

      Those are all know facts, and very few disagree.

      A “national health emergency” has the embedded presumption that there is government action that can mitigate bad outcomes.

      There was good reason early on to believe that was false. There is much better evidence now.

      Numerous studies have found that demographics and geography are the only factors that correlate to C19 spread and deaths.
      That there is no evidence that any government policy anywhere accomplished anything more than delay.

      Indeed at the start the ‘experts” were open about exactly that – the policy measures masks lockdowns etc. were purely to “flatten the curve”.
      Flatten the curve does not mean reduce the number of deaths. It is purely to spread the burden on hospitals out over a longer period of time. the same total number of infections and deaths – but over many more months.

      That is the actual science.

      But today those on the left are claiming that all these measures somehow miraculously reduced infections and deaths.
      That is despite massive evidence.

      Universally northern states have done worse than southern ones.
      Universally more dense populations have done worse than less dense ones.
      Universally states with higher populations of elderly have done worse.

      Todate there are no real world studies that demonstrate that masking social distancing or lockdowns have made a difference anywhere.

      In fact there is not a single public policy that has had any effect except changing the shape of the curve.
      In every single area EXCEPT hospitals, “flattening the curve” makes things worse – not better.

      So absolutely we are in the midst – probably the tail end, of an epidemic.

      Is it a “national health emergency” – if that means is there much that government can do – then the answer is clearly NO!

    2. “the need for mail-in ballots probably seemed contrived.”

      The need for mailin ballots was ALWAYS contrived.

      If you can safely go to the grocery store, you can safely vote.

    3. “A loyal Trump supporter might have thought the virus was simply this year’s flu. From a perspective such as this one could reason Democrats were exploiting the flu as a pretense for mail-in ballots.”

      Back to reading other peoples minds again.

      The FACTS, not mind reading is that C19 is about as dangerous as the 1968 Flu – it is not nearly as bad as the 1918 flu.

      It is an about once every 50 years event. It is not a once every 200 years event.
      It is also not an every year event or an every 10 years event.

      Regardless, the overall severity is irrelevant. What is relevant is what can be done about it.

      At no time in all of history have we EVER thwarted a respiratory virus once it has gotten a toe hold.

      While we all could HOPE this time would be different. There is no evidence this time would be different.

    4. “Therefore if Democrats exploited the pandemic, rigging the election is not a big leap. It was the logical thrust of the plot they devised.”

      Again not only mind reading – but bad mind reading.

      The fundimental issue with democrats is TRUST.

      You have lied so much you are not trusted.

      It is clear that the FBI under Obama could not be trusted to do its job properly.
      It lied to courts, it lied to judges – not once but many times,
      And it tried to hide everything it did.

      Then we had a Special Counsel investigation – despite the fact that even a corrupt prior FBI investigation had found there was nothing.
      Endlessly investigating is just another form of lying and fraud. And still nothing.

      Numerous democrats promised us there was real evidence – that was lies.

      We had an impeachment over lies – obviously there was plenty of grounds to investigate the conduct of the Biden’s in Ukraine.
      And in fact we know learn that during the impeachment there was an FBI/DOJ investigation of just exactly that done so quietly neither Trump, nor the house and senate knew about it. Devon Archer has plead guilty and Hunter Biden is still being investigated.

      So we have another massive lie.

      And in you post you told us that Covid required Mailin balloting – and that is clearly another lie.

      Then during the election itself you refused to follow election laws – that is more lying.

      All the lies is why you are not trusted.

      This is not about a specific conspiracy – I doubt many of the claims regarding this election. Though I fully support full inquity into DVS and other counting systems, as well as changes to the law to make those systems more secure. I think a conspiracy to rig the election with voting machines is unlikely – though it was actually common place with mechanical voting machines.

      I have zero doubt there was myriads of instances of smaller fraud – that ballots managed to magically appear.
      This happens in every election – though democrats deny it.
      But the scale is PROBABLY not enough to tip the election – it still should be investigated.

      The BIG conspiracy – the one that likely changed the outcome is the failure to reject illegitimate mailin ballots.
      That was done deliberately and openly, and probably conspiratorially.

      But it does not matter whether there was some big zoom conference of democratic governors and election officials or they all decided to violate the laws on their own. It is still fraud.

      And we beleive it because:

      It actually happened.
      Democrats have proven themselves completely untrustworthy.

        1. More people know it now.

          Those on the left do not seem to have any concept of the damage they have done to themselves.

          I do not want to make specific predictions.
          But lets look at some possibilities.

          assuming republicans hold control of the Senate – which I think is near certain.
          Why do republicans have to confirm ANY Biden nominees ?

          I am not saying that will happen – Though I do not expect any cooperation between the PA Legislature and Gov. Wolf ever again.
          And I expect other states are the same.

    5. “One should note, however, that Donald Trump predicted the virus would disappear after Election Day.”
      Wow – shoot him now.

      “But just the opposite occurred.”
      That is false. Deaths did not increase until weeks after the election.

      “The pandemic surged with cold weather as Dr Fauci predicted.”
      Even that is actually false. C19 has been spreading through the country since it arrived. It has been following a predictable pattern.
      It hit our populous travel hubs first and it spread from their to 2ndary hubs.

      While there is some evidence of a seasonal nature to C19 – it is so highly contagious that the seasonality is actually quite small.
      We are seeing SMALL increases in infections and deaths in the highly populous cities that were initially devestated.
      We are NOT seeing an explosion of C19 in places that were devasted in the spring.

      Each C19 “surge” represents C19 getting to a new and previously uneffected population – with each wave C19 has moved from urban, to suburban to rural populations.

      While there is a small seasonal effect, the primary driver is that it is slowly finding more remote populations that are not yet immune.

      “Trump was terribly mistaken about the pandemic.”
      As has most everyone – including you.

      You just claimed that the “surge” right now is seasonal. But mostly it is not. Other “experts” – your experts are claiming it is because of thanksgiving. Make up your mind.

      Or better still – just accept that we do not know, and that we can not control it.

      I would note Trump also said that we would have a vaccine this year.
      Faucci and all the experts said we would not.

      The first vaccines in the US will be given on Friday.
      In other parts of the world they start tomorow.

      Faucci was horribly wrong. YOU were horribly wrong. Trump was right.
      I was right.

      So why should we trust your predictions ? Or Faucci’s ?
      And why shouldn’t we trust Trump’s
      So far he was right about the vaccine – the single most important thing that can be done.
      The only policy measure that actually will work.

      30M – 60M of us will be vaccinated before the new year. Globally over 1B people will be vaccinated before febraury.

      “So why should his election claims be any more credible??”
      By your logic – Trump must be right about the election – because he was right about vaccines.

      Regardless, this is not something we need to speculate about.

      We KNOW that election laws were violated. That is not even in question.

      What we do not know is the impact – but we CAN and ultimately WILL know the impact.

      We can properly check the mailin ballot envelopes – if you have not burned them yet.

      We can check that the machines counted ballots correctly.

      We can check for all the anomalous ballots alleged.

      There are many problems we can not fix after the fact.
      But almost all problems can be FOUND after the fact.
      All we need to do is remove our head from the sand.

      We are not dealing with an issue of prediction – after all the election results are way off from the polls – clearly the pollsters were wrong.
      And Trump was RIGHT.

      If this is to be determined by the success rate of predictions – Trump is the one to trust – not democrats, or pollsters, or even faucci.
      But it is not. We can actually open our eyes and audit the election.

      And we must, or the next time will be worse.
      Though I will predict democrats are the victims next time.

      You are so short sighted. You never look past the imediate consequences.

      1. You’re a liar, John. Fauci said he was “cautiously optimistic that we will in fact have a safe and effective vaccine by the end of the year.”

          1. I have provided a link to Fauci’s statement that there would be no vaccine for 12-18months.

            If you have any shred of decency at all – you would appologize for calling me a liar and this entire line of attack – which was ludicrous on your part from the start.

            As you are currently posting as anonymous – where can you go to hide from here ?

            If you are going to accuse another of lying – you had better be damn sure – because if you are wrong if YOU fail to prove your case the moral failure is YOURS.

            You should expect that with every future post of yours – especially those continuing to make accusations that I or others are lying – I may respond that you had ONCE AGAIN been caught in a false accusation – a LIE.

            You have no decency.
            You have no credibility
            You have no integrity

            You have done that to yourself.

          2. I cited Fauci’s April interview with reporters where he sated that vaccines would take 12-18 months.

            Precisely what I said he had stated before.

            Precisely what you claimed I was lying about.

            You have made a false moral accusation – the obligation to correct that is YOURS

            It is your integrity, morality and credibility at issue.

            1. I gave you the actual video where you can listen to him, and even with that, you cannot admit that you’re wrong.

              He didn’t say “vaccines would take 12-18 months”
              He said “The whole process is going to take a year, a year and a half, at least.”

              The whole process includes vaccinating people. It doesn’t end at developing the vaccines.

              That you double down instead of admitting you were wrong makes you a LIAR.

              1. How much of an idiot are you ?

                You have accused me of Lying. All that is necessary is for Fauci to have said what I claimed ONCE for my statement to be true.
                He said it or similar things several times.

                The fact that he has said other things is not relevant to whether I was lying or your accusation was FALSE and therefore you have committed a serious moral failure.

                Just to be clear – this is not about Fauci – Unlike you I actually expect experts to be wrong most of the time.

                That is OK. But it is ALSO why we do not treat what they say as biblical truth.

                But you have made a moral accusation – you have accused another person of lying.

                The burden of proof is HIGH – and it falls entirely on you. All grey areas are YOUR problem – not mine.
                You do not weasel out of this by parsing either my words or Fauci’s.

                Do not accuse other people of lying unless you can prove it incontrovertably.

                You have failed – miserably – and I have zero interest in your efforts to weasel out of it.

                You have successfully destroyed what little credibility or integrtity “anonymous” has.

              2. I am tired of this “whole process” nonsense.

                In Late June Fauci said that a Vaccine MIGHT be available to the public, in 12-18 months.

                Available to the public is NOT to the completion of all vaccinations.

                BTW if completing vaccinations is the end date – it will take forever, We will never get a 100% vaccination rate.

                So your “whole process” claim is worthless – I do not expect more than 50% of americans to be vaccinated by April.
                The normal vaccination rate for the flu is only about 30%, and for childhood diseases it is only in the 90’s.

                The US is near certain to vaccinate 20-30M people by January 1, 2021. That number will likely triple by the inauguration.

                Those initially vaccinated will be the elderly, and healthcare workers. That alone will likely cause the death rate to tank.

                Even the infection rate should drop rapidly as we make a large dent in essential workers.

                Completely wiping out Covid may take years.

                But that appears inevitable.

                We have learned:
                Covid does not so far mutate rapidly – or it if does that those mutations are mostly impotent.
                That immunity to Covid is broad – even a recent Corona Virus Cold likely provides several years of immunity.
                That the effectiveness of vaccines is high – 95% or so.

                Those are the elements necescary to completely wipe out a viral disease if we choose.

                that will take years.

                But the death rate – particularly in the US will drop starting NOW, and it will drop exponentially once most older people and those who work with them are vaccinated.

                1. Covid does not so far mutate rapidly – or it if does that those mutations are mostly impotent.

                  Once a vaccine is introduced, a pathogen is forced to mutate systemically in vivo via genetic pressures. Mutations of bacteria and DNA viruses post vaccination are a common phenomenon. As to RNA based vaccines, we have none on the market in the USA. Thus we are in the dark with this COVID vaccine excitement. Expect hiccups along the way, e.g. Pfizer’s vaccine in the UK

                  RNA mutates far more than DNA so expect mutations with COVID-19 year to year but especially with the vaccines

                  Better to have a healthy lifestyle, be fit, lose weight, yada yada yada

                  1. Actual mutation is not driven by Vaccines. Mutation success is. the rate of mutations is relatively fixed.
                    Things that thwart the success of a virus – such as a vaccine result in the destruction of all mutations EXCEPT those uneffected by the vaccine.

                    The Vaccine is NOT the cause of mutation, it does not change the rate of mutation. It changes which mutations are must successful.

                    Absolutely several of the C19 vaccines are an entirely different technology that has never been used before.

                    And their success or failure will be quite interesting.

                    One of the mRNA vaccines was developed within days of the virus being sequenced in February. It could have been available by April.

                    The only reason it was not – was exactly the issues you are addressing – this is a new area of vaccines that we had no ability to do 20 years ago.

                    Contra your argument – the risks are actually very low. Further if the mRNA vaccines work as expected – and we have spent almost a year testing exactly that, then we have a new technology in our arsenal to fight many viruses. It is merely lack of experience that required the almost 1 year delay on the mRNA vaccine. We are about to get that big time.

                    Asuming as is highly likely that the mRNA vaccines work we have a new tool that can be developed an produced in 1/4 the time it took this time. With a very high probability of success.

                    I would separately note that all of the vaccines being produced are NOT mRNA vaccines.. I beleive the AZ vaccine is more traditional.
                    The 5 Chinese vaccines are more traditional. These have a higher failure rate, but are easier to handle do not require 2 doses – but they take much longer to develop than mRNA vaccines.

                    Assuming as you postulate than the mRNA vaccines fail – we have many fall backs.

                  2. We have found that SOME common colds provide immunity to C19. The data also indicates that immunity to mumps confers immunity to C19.

                    That strongly suggests that immunity C19 is easily acheived and relatively broad and that few if any mutations will circumvent immunity.

                    Regardless successful mutation is not trivial.

                    If C19 mutates to something that is far less lethal how much do we care ?

                    A successful mutation must avoid the immunity the vaccine confers, remain highly infectuous, and remain fairly lethal.

                  3. While lifestyle is a factor – the largest factor driving C19 mortality is age.

                    There is strong evidence that it is other factors that correlate to age that are critical.

                    As an example high levels of vitamin D appear to confer immunity as well as lower mortality dramatically even if you are infected – and Vitamin D strongly varies with age.

                    Another factor appears to be that immunity to mumps confers immunity to C19. But immunity to mumps declines with time.

                    Most people under 60 received the MMR vaccine – and appear to have decreasing immunity as they age and mumps tighters decline.
                    Most people over 60 either got the mumps or have no immunity. Even those who got mumps have probably lost immunity by 60

                    Absolutely there are lifestyle issues. But the factor dwarfing all others is age.

                    Even the lifestyle issues are still predominantly issues for the elderly. Many many countries have very little impact from C19 – because they just do not have that many older people.

                    Outside of the western world most people do not live long enough to be part of the group with high C19 mortality.

                    In the west you can have an unhealthy lifestyle AND survive to 75 – that is not true in much of the world.

              3. You are the only one doubling down.

                I have provided you an article from April with Faucci’s claim.

                He repeated a version of it in late June.

                In fact he repeated versions of it many times.

                But I only need ONE to prove your accusation is false.

                My burden of proof is low – YOU made the initial moral accusation.
                YOU must either prove is – with all grey areas against you – that is the nature of moral accusations.
                When you make a misstatement of fact – you are entitled to the benefit of all reasonable doubts.
                When you make an acusation of moral failure – the accused gets the benefit of all doubts.

                I have separately addressed why your “whole process” claim is nonsense.

                It is also the new stupid claim coming from the left to try to pretend that somehow Biden and democrats can have some relevance in ending Covid.

                YOU CANT. You have done nothing but lie and interfere from the start.

                At this time – Biden CAN F’it up. But he can not fix anything.

        1. Do I need to list all the contradictory statements that Faucci has made ?

          Again – you are making a moral accusation – and a self evidently false one.

          Failing to prove a moral accusation is a moral failure on YOUR PART.

          Dr. Fauci says he warned Trump in January that the US was in real trouble but that is not what he said publicly.

          In January Dr. Anthony Fauci told Newsmax TV that the United States “did not have to worry”about the coronavirus and that it was“not a major threat.”

          Dr. Fauci warned of an apocalyptic coronavirus pandemic — then just weeks later he compared the coronavirus to a bad flu.

          Dr. Fauci based all of his predictions on models the that were OFF BY MILLIONS and then later told reporters,“You can’t really rely on models.”

          On March 20th Dr. Fauci jumped in and during a press briefing on hydroxychloroquine treatment for coronavirus “corrected” the president saying, “You got to be careful when you say ‘fairly effective.’ It was never done in a clinical trial… It was given to individuals and felt that maybe it worked.”

          Exactly two weeks later hydroxychloroquine was deemed the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus in an international poll of more than 6,000 doctors.

          Dr. Fauci pushed these garbage models every step of the way.

          A month ago Dr. Fauci claimed 1 million to 2 million Americans would die from coronavirus. Then he said 100,000 to 200,000 Americans will die from the virus. Three weeks ago he agreed 81,766 Americans would die from the coronavirus. Then by that Wednesday the experts cut the number of deaths to 60,415 projected deaths. to 60,415 projected deaths.

          On Easter Dr. Fauci suggested President Trump. should have shut down the economy in February… When the number of known cases in the US was around 100. Fauci later walked back his attacks.

          Dr. Fauci said cruises were OK on March 9th. That was a huge error.

          Dr. Fauci said malls, movies and gyms were OK on February 29th. That was another huge mistake.

          Dr. Fauci was wrong about the first coronavirus deaths in the country. Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx and the CDC were off by nearly a month. California officials revealed in Aprilthat a patient in Santa Clara died from coronavirus on February 6th not February 29th.

          Dr. Fauci and the CDC missed the millions and millions of US citizenswho had already contracted the coronavirus before the draconian lockdowns took place. Knowing this could have prevented the economic calamity.

          OnApril 15, 2020, Fauci endorses Tinder hookups, unbelievably.

          Dr. Fauci relied on corrupt W.H.O rules to lock down the United States and destroy the US economy. Meanwhile, this delays the herd immunity that is needed to prevent a future outbreak of this deadly virus.

          Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx used the Imperial College Model to persuade President Trump to lock down the entire US economy. The Imperial model has since been confirmed as A COMPLETE FRAUD.

          Dr. Fauci warned that Georgia would see a surge in coronavirus cases and deaths by opening their economy too early.

          He was wrong again– In fact the opposite happened.

          And on Tuesday during testimony Dr. Fauci told Dr. Rand Paul that opening the schools would not be a good idea.

          1. Your article doesn’t quote Fauci except for the phrase “at least.”

            Look at what Fauci actually said in March, this has the video –
            https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1234951769941135360

            It was “The whole process is going to take a year, a year and a half, at least.” That’s true. “The whole process” means vaccinating people, not just developing the vaccine. We’re not going to have finished vaccinating everyone by March.

            One of your problems, John, is that you’re astoundingly sloppy with details. You often put your words in other people’s mouths and then pretend they said the words you put in. Focus on their words, not yours.

            1. Fauci is a fraud. Open your eyes.

              Question: is there an AIDS vaccine, yet? Answer: No. But that is the biggest accomplishment Fauci touts. His work on AIDS.

              Fauci is a typical bureaucratic fraud and here he is in his 80s now? And yet he has not retired. Why not? Because he is fueled by his ego that craves the adulation of the left and Hollywood that we have witenessed since this all began. Fauci has gotten it all wrong from the get go with Covid, yet he is being lauded and feted and praised and awarded AS IF he has actually DONE something to help people! He has not.

              What a fraud. He sticks around because working for the gubm’t is a good gig if you can get it and hang around getting awards and glossy magazine covers for 50 years.

              1. Why is Fauci being praised when Donald Trump is being criticized? Don’t they work on the same team doing the same work for the country?

              2. I would not be so hard on Fauci.

                What I would be hard on is the people who buy this “experts” nonsense, or the idiocy that “science” is what the “expert” that gets airtime on MSNBC says.

                Experts get it wrong – alot.

                That means we should not EVER allow them power over us.

                They provide us ADVICE.
                Each of us INDIVIDUALLY makes our choices on our own.

                We pay the price for those decisions – not the “experts”

            2. Do you understand that “atleast” makes your claim even WORSE ?

              You can show a dozen clips of Fauci saying something else.

              Is there anyone here who is not aware of Fauci saying on e thing one week and another on another week ?

              are you saying the reporters in the article I linked are lying about what Fauci said ?

              Regardless, you made a false moral accusation and now you are trying to weasel out of it.

              BTW – except for the fact that Fauci essentially testified to congress that he lied to the public when he said maskes were ineffective, I do not have a special axe to grind with Fauci.

              The core problem is with the LEFT’s idiotic faith in experts.

              Fauci likely did the best he could. He is an expert – in a narrow field. But Covid is a problem larger than one field.

              Fauci is probably “expert” in how long a vaccine normally takes to develop.

              He is NOT an expert in how fast things can be done when real pressure is applied – when thousands of lives are at stake.

              He has little knowledge of how free markets work. These are things Trump is expert at and you and Fauci are not.

            3. Prior to this the shortest time frame for the development of a new vaccine from scratch to approval was 4 years.
              Each years Flu vaccines are done more rapidly – but these are not truly new. Each years flu is sufficiently similar to prior flu’s that it is really just minor adjustments.

              I would also note that Pfiser’s partner firm – BioTech I beleive had the mRna vaccine for C19 developed and ready for testing in Febrary – 2 days after the virus was sequenced.

              Since that time all the worl has been in three areas:

              Does it work ?
              How safe is it ?
              How do we produce millions of doses ?

              Operation warp speed was actually overly cautious – because getting government to move fast is damn near impossible.

              Biohackers had mRNA vaccines available in small quantities in April.

              How safe does a vaccine have to be to be better than 200,000 people dying ? CDC and FDA want perfection.

            4. I am expecting to receive the first does of the vaccine on Friday. That will be more than 1 month before Biden takes office.

              It is my understanding that between the different vaccines there are 60M doses (that is enough for 30M people) ready for use by the end of 2020.

              The Chinese Vaccines are being given to people TODAY.

              Your claim that Fauci meant – all the way through vaccine is both wrong and irrelevant.

            5. “One of your problems, John, is that you’re astoundingly sloppy with details. You often put your words in other people’s mouths and then pretend they said the words you put in. Focus on their words, not yours.”

              You would be wise to heed your own advice – as well as all of those on the left.

              You say I am sloppy with details – you made a false moral accusation PERIOD – there is no games you can play with details to escape that.

              I did not “quote” Fauci – I am not obligated to. I also did not misrepresent him, just because I did not quote him.

              You called that a LIE – you are WRONG. PERIOD.

              No amount of word games or pretending that i am sloppy with the details gets around that.

              What you have claimed I do – left wing nut reporters have been doing for the past 4 years.

              I am not a reporter. But one major difference between me and all those reporters who have actually done what you claim I have done is that in the end – I have been right, and they have been wrong.

              Fauci has said many things – he contradicts himself constantly. I am near certain that I can find several other fauci quotes that a vaccine will take a long long time.

              And yes he has said other things – mostly recently.

              Damned he is pretty good at telling us what we already know.

              But Fauci is not accusing others of lying – YOU ARE.

    6. You claim democrats are not conspiring – and yet they are openly doing that.

      John Kerry and myriads of other leftest are busy plotting the great reset.

      A massive global explosion of the power of government and the left in response to the pandemic and “climate change”.

      You rant at the right for believing the left is doing what they openly admit to doing.

      But there is a difference. The right beleives the left when they say they want leverage the pandemic to rule the world.

    7. Anon: “. . . Trump lost the election because he consistently miscalculated the entire pandemic.”

      Or because China bought the election for Biden.

      In the *fall of 2020*, UBS Securities LLC — which is 75% owned by the Chinese government — invested $400 million in Staple Street Capital. Staple Street Capital owns Dominion Voting Systems (DVS). Dominion’s machines were widely used in the election.

      Dominion’s corrupt Security Chief, Eric Coomer, then put that dirty money to “good” use in the election.

      Coomer is a passionate defender of Antifa, and loathes Trump. He said to Antifa members: “Don’t worry about the election; Trump’s not gonna win. I made f***ing sure of that!” And so, flush with Chinese cash, he did.

  5. The 2020 election has been totally corrupted and is irredeemable and without remedy.

    The 2020 election must be referred to Congress by the electors.

    12th Amendment

    “…The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote;…”

  6. I have to think left has been engaged in voter fraud for years – This year they got their hand to deep into the cookie jar.

  7. So, when some voting center kicks out Rep observers, then keeps counting, so Biden’s legal votes PLUS illegal votes is bigger, you support him being certified as the winner. Why not address the GA election fraud suitcases? The Detroit disaster?

    Still no review of the actual voting data statistics of the Fraud cities. No access to machine code.
    Dems know that real investigations would highlight affidavits of witnesses.

    But little chance of Dems supporting honest audits.

    You are right that without transparency Reps will think the election is stolen. Since the Dems DID steal the election, just like Hillary’s email server WAS illegal, the Dems will fight to win first, then maybe apologize later.

    1. There were no “GA election fraud suitcases.”

      There were non-fraudulent ballot containers in GA, and this has already been investigated:

      Gabriel Sterling (conservative Republican, Voting System Implementation Manager for GA, voted for Trump):
      “The 90 second video of election workers at State Farm arena, purporting to show fraud was watched in its entirety (hours) by @GaSecofState investigators. Shows normal ballot processing. Here is the fact check on it. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/12/fact-check-video-from-ga-does-not-show-suitcases-filled-with-ballots-pulled-from-under-a-table-after-poll-workers-dismissed.html
      https://twitter.com/GabrielSterling/status/1334825233610633217

      1. CTDHD – no it does not show normal ballot processing.

        While the mysterious ballot containers are a disturbing element – and they do not normally show up in the way they did,

        That is not the most abnormal issue.

        The actual fraud the video shows is that GA election officials annouced that vote counting was being stopped because of a pipe leak.
        They then sent all observers away, closed the building and continued to count.

        That is illegal and it is fraud, it is also lying.

        As to the countainers – it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that when you have lied to people to throw out observers that what you are now doing in private is likely fraud.

        You do not seem to grasp two huge things.

        First democrats have completely burned their credibility over the past 4 years.
        It is quite easy to beleive you committed fraud – because you have lied so much over the past 4 years.
        Many republicans would need no evidence at all to beleive democrats committed fraud.
        Because no one trust liars.

        The second is that you are continuing to lie and you have repeatedly violated the rules.
        And that is exactly what the video shows.

        Does it show hundreds of thousands of illegal ballots ? Maybe, maybe not.

        But it absolutely shows that the democratic election officials lied to observers to throw them out in violation of election laws so that they could count hidden ballot boxes in secret.

        That is fraud.

        Had you not violated all the election laws.

        Had you subject the election to real scrutiny – maybe we would trust you.

        But you behaved like crooks, you hid what you were up to, and you continue to hide what you did.

        No one beleives you.

        1. There are numerous ways of structurally assuring the integrity of the count.

          Some possibilities – Do not hire people to couint. Select them like Jury duty, at random.

          Alternately gather all mailing ballots at the state capitol and then shuffle them like cards and send them to various counties to be counted.

          Those are just the first two things off the top of my head.

    2. Has anyone wondered why on election night Mr. T was very far ahead, at least 5 digits worth of ahead. Then. out of the dark early morning hours, post election, after what was it, 6 states all stopped counting at the same time and behold, Biden was ahead! Super Ballot saved the day for Biden. Sure. UH HUH.

      Super stuffing the counting machines was what happened. That is why so many ballots were printed. Not all of them were mailed, though hundreds of thousands were. A LOT of ballots were held back to use as needed to give Biden a lead he did not get honestly. The counting was stopped so the fraudsters could count how many ballots Biden needed to give him a lead. Then the fakers just stuffed them in.

      Biden is NOT president elect. That is a leftist propaganda dog & pony show & Mr. Turley repeated it. No one is Prez Elect until the Electoral College certifies.

      How many HUNDREDS of brave souls, some D some R, have signed SWORN affidavits attesting to fraud they SAW! That’s why Repubs were kept from observing the counting. Those affidavits were sworn under oath & false claims carry jail time for perjury.

      Any honest person can see that there IS a ton of evidence that points to a huge attempt at stealing this election.

      SamFox

      1. There is lots of evidence of likely fraud.

        For the most part I agree with you.

        But the quality of the evidence varies.

        Election laws were not followed – that is absolute. There is no doubt about that.
        In PA that was particularly egregious and very well documented.
        Matching signatures and DL #’s on mailin and absentee ballots are REQUIRED BY LAW – laws that Gov. Wolf Signed.
        No ballots can be accepted after 8PM election day – again written into the law.
        All parts of the election process must be observable by representatives of all parties – again PA law.

        Each of these was OPENLY violated. There is zero doubt at all.

        Many many other things are fishy – you noted some of those.

          1. I will look later.

            Right now the big deal is the NV and AZ audits.

            I do not at this point know what Lindell’s claims are.
            There have been many claims that were poor. The benford’s law claims are meaningless as an example, and there are a few other statistical claims that are weak – they essentially show tautologies.

            But there is zero doubt that the election was lawless. Even the New GA election law – STILL violates the GA constitution.

            GA and 28 other states require secret ballots – 5 of the 6 “swing” states.

            There is no way to have a secret mailin ballot. A secret ballot is something very specific. It requires that the voter never have posession of a ballot outside of a polling place or court house. I requires that there is never at any time anyway to determine the specific person that a voted ballot belongs to. the purpose of secret ballots is to preclude anyone coercing or inducing your vote.
            This is why you can not take cell phones into polls. Why it is illegal to photograph your ballot. Because if you can prove how you voted, then you can be paid for that vote. We had massive problems with that in the 19th century. There was some of that going on in 2020, but I do not think it was a big deal – but if we continue mailin voting – it will happen.

          2. I have heard several other arguments recently that are not proof of fraud – but they are funny and something to think about.

            The woke Oscars had the lowest ratings ever – below 10M viewers, That is down 200% in a few years.

            Why are we to beleive that Biden – the dullest candidate ever got 80M votes, but the Oscars could not manage 10M viewers ?

            Before the election – both candidates made appearances. Biden was having trouble getting anyone beyond his staff to show up a campaign appearances – Trump was filling stadiums.

            There are people who beleive Trump won California. That is into smoking whacky weed for me.

            I have no doubt there was fraud. There is always fraud. I do not think we have seen large scale organized fraud since Johnson.

            But we have seen more than enough fraud each and every election to tip a few seats.

            I suspect Trump won NH in 2016. And it is even more likely that Ayoette won. Just the number of votes with out of state ID that claimed to be NH residents that never verified NH residency – but were counted is enough to flip NH in 2016.

            Throughout the country we have seen numerous contests that had incredibly narrow margins – one house race was won by 6 votes. Many were won by 0.1% or less. much less sometimes. This is precisely the type of contest that can be tipped by small amounts of fraud.

            I am more suspicious of democrats than republicans – but political operatives on both parties have a win at all costs approach.
            This election flipped control of trillions of dollars in spending. Many people will get rich because Biden won. Different people would have gotten rich if Trump won. We spend $15B on the election. There is lots of money and lots of motive to cheat for both sides.
            Especially if you can not get caught. And this election was run in a fashion to try to make it very difficult to catch fraudsters.

            As an example – lets assume that AZ or NV audits demonstrate very large problems. How are you going to catch the fraudsters ?

            How can you ever catch mailin ballot fraud – without a confession ?

            You can prove there was likely fraud. But it is very hard – even in inperson elections without voter ID to catch those committing it.

            I have thought about how I would screw up the 2022 election – to make sure that we never have another mailin election again.

            And for a very small amount of money and resources. I could assure that there was massive fraud in any state that continued to follow the 2020 rules. That I would never be caught – so long as I did not tell anyone.

  8. Auditing the machines and the signature matching shouldn’t be an issue. Nor should hearing testimony from witnesses. That is, if you’re not trying to hide something.

    1. Right – so why aren’t we doing it ?

      Why aren’t we doing it NORMALLY ?

      You can not have machines do counting if you do not randomly audit them – it is not secure. It is not trustworthy.

        1. “Why do you assume that they aren’t randomly audited?

          All states do audits.”

          Why do you assume they are ?

          GA did not and has not. That is part of what the big political brawl between Kemp and Trump is about.

          Voting machines are typically by law tested (by random selection) PRIOR to an election. Representatives of all parties are invited to the tests. They are NOT supposed to be changed at all after the tests.

          Yet in GA we KNOW that the firmware was updated within 24hrs of the election – that is a violation of election laws.

          In MI the purported 5500 Trump undercount was purportedly because of a failure to update the firmware – contra DVS that is a DVS error not a human error. The firmware NEVER should have undercounted and required an update, further, no one should have updated the firmware after the testing – that is illegal. If a critical problem was found – then a retest was required.

          BTW there is no “ALL STATES” rule that is true. There is some – not much federal law. All records related to voting must be retained for 2 years by federal law. That is routinely violated everywhere. Many things have already been destroyed. Many of those are unimportant, but some are.

          Why do you assume that you know the law in all 50 states ?

          As you think that all voting machines were randomly audited – provide proof that actually occured in GA, WI, PA, AZ, MI ?

          1. I was wrong about it being all states. It’s most states. See the state requirements table here –
            https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/post-election-audits635926066.aspx

            You clearly assume things when you make false claims like “GA did not and has not.” They carried out their standard audit and also a statewide audit –
            https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race

            1. Please read your own link.

              GA essentially recounted the entire election in EXACTLY the same way they counted it the first time.

              In otherwords they took ballots counted by machines, and recounted them by machines and compared the results.

              They did catch errors. I beleive Trump picked up 5000 votes – which is pretty much unheard of for a recount.

              But it was NOT a hand recount. You can call it an Audit if that is the label you wish.
              But that is not what an Audit is to me

              When I have my financial records audited – a third party checks them. They do not use the same systems and the same methods.
              The bring their own computers and calculators.

              While I am dubious of Sydney Powells claim.

              GA has STILL not done what is actually necescary to refute it.

              Which is really really disturbing – because what was done was incredibly hard, but totally completely avoids any verification of ANY of the fraud claims in GA.

              It there is a problem with the machines in the first run.
              That is not likely going away by using them to count again.

              If illegitimate ballots were counted – they will be counted again the 2nd time.

              It is pretty easy to review the mailin ballot envelopes in Fulton country and verify that the signatures match and that the voters are alive and well and living in Fulton County. Every sane person KNOWS that some of those ballots will prove to be fraudulent.
              The only question is how many. Any number over 0.2% raises questions about the election – Biden’s margin is 0.2%
              Any number over 2% is massive fraud that flips the election – Fulton county is 1/10 of GA, and a 2% error in Fulton country alone would flip the election

              BTW you can repeat this for EACH of 5 cities accross the country that are solely responsible for flipping 5 states.

              In PA the mailin rejection rate was 0.25%. In the May primaries it was 20%. that is a massive difference.
              Do you really beleive that Voters suddenly became 100 times less illegitimate or error prone or fraud prone ?

              It is quite obvious what was done. In 5 places in the country they decided not to reject invalid ballots betting – accurately that they would favor Biden and that the added votes would be enough to flip the states, And they were right.

              1. Only a wanker like you, John, would lie and say “GA essentially recounted the entire election in EXACTLY the same way they counted it the first time. … it was NOT a hand recount,” when the link says “this audit was a full manual tally of all votes cast … hand-counting ballots.”

                1. Raffensberger – and the GA Dept State said alot of things that subsequently proved to be false.

                  You do not seem to understand the concept of credibility.

                  The left seems to think it is sufficient to SAY you are going to do something – that you do not actually have to do it.

                  1. You haven’t shown that the statement “this audit was a full manual tally of all votes cast …. hand-counting ballots” is false.

                    1. Georgia “carried out their standard audit and also a statewide audit”

                      Georgia did *not* perform the most important type of audit: signature verification of the mail-in ballots.

                      There was no picture ID required for the mail-in ballots, nor was there signature verification. I’d love to operate without those security protections. There are some banks, casinos, and car dealerships I’d like to visit.

                    2. There are many flaws with what GA did. Both in the election itself and the “recount”.

                      You note some of those. I am less sure of GA mailin ballot requirements – but I think that are more rigorous than PA, where the signature must match, the DOB must match and the DL# must be provided and match.

                      There are other things that also must be done – the ID must be verified against voter registration and death rolls.

                      In some states an address must be provided and must be a legitimate residential address in the state

                      Any mistakes CAN NOT be corrected / cured by those verifying.

                      The entire point of the verification is to reject ballots were the person filling out the ballot does not answer the details correctly.

                      Doing so accepts ballots where the voter failed to prove they were a legitimate voter.

                    3. The normal all cause rejection rate for first time mailin ballots is 20% The normal all cause rejection rate for absentee ballots is 6%.

                      I do not think there is a contested state where the rejection rate was 1%.

                      I strongly suspect you will find the 2000 ballots rejected in GA were rejected outside of Fulton country.

                      Your fact check is just stupid.

                      The fact check would be correct if GA rejected only a single ballot.

                      But the claim of of failure to validate ballots would still be true.

                    4. I do not need to – your link did not specifiy that the voting machines were audited by hand counting the ballots.

                      Regardless, the statement is false – not only on this point but others.
                      Reffenser promised many things – including this. All Ga did was a bit of recanvasing and a standard recount.

                      You do know that Counting ballots with ballots counting machines is a “manual” process – you feed the ballots manually.

                      Regardless – why am I obligated to prove anything to you – you can’t even post under a psuedonym. You have no credibility or integrity.

                    5. That’s what “a full manual tally of all votes cast … hand-counting ballots” IS, jackass.

                    6. Because you say so ?

                      Then why are so many still asking for exactly that ?

                      Are all these people stupid ?

                      Are the very same people who understood that the collusion delussion was nonsense – unable to grasp that the state of GA has done what they want, while the same people decieved by the collusion delussion – they accurately perceive what has been done ?

                      Sorry anonymous. but the odds of your perception of reality being accurate is low. And the odds of that of those you denigrate being accurate is high.

                      You still do not grasp the consequences of being caught lying repeatedly.

                      People who are regularly right about the facts, and who do not spray us all with false moral accusations tend to be beleived,
                      while those who have been routinely wrong about facts and made numerous false moral accusations are not beleived without compelling evidence.

                      I actually beleive that a proper REAL audit of DVS systems is not likely to produce the results that many republicans hope for.
                      Nor do I require an audit of all DVS systems throughout the country or Georgia. A randomized audit properly done will put this entirely to bed.

                      What is disturbing is the extent to which something relatively simple continues to be resisted.

                    7. You constantly make these bold pronouncement – that are little more than “I am right” and then you add insults and you pretend this constitutes an argument.

                      You have told us all that sworn affadavits are nothing more than hearsay – and they are not evidence.

                      So why is some muddled language on a web site more credible ?

                      Why should I disbeleive someone who sworn under oath that they observed fraud, but beleive a web site that can not even clearly and accurately state what was done ?

                      And why should I beleive you about anything ?

                      What is it that you have a track record of accuracy on ?

  9. TURLEY GIVES EQUAL WEIGHT TO ‘WHAT’?

    In the above column the professor writes: “Rather, polls show that up to 90 percent of Republicans and even a fair number of Democrats believe question the legitimacy of this election”.

    If one clicks to the Newsweek link, it isn’t real clear what percentage of Democrats question the election results. Nor have I had any luck googling recent polls citing the number of Democrats questioning the election results. There could be a poll out there with this stat, but so far it eludes me.

    Therefore I wonder ‘why’ Professor Turley claims that a “fair number of Democrats question the legitimacy of this election”. It seems to be a point Turley is shoe-horning into this discussion to create the impression Trump’s election claims have bipartisan support. Said claims have ‘no’ support in the courts as Turley has noted. And even brave Republicans question Trump’s claims.

    This column, like so many Turley has written this past month, attempts to play both sides of the election results. Turley is walking a tightrope between preserving his credibility and pandering to Trump’s base.

    1. A better question is WHY don’t many democrats question this election ?

      There are lots of issues and way too many of those assuring us are part and parcel of the crowd that told us there was russian collusion, and that there was nothing there with Biden in the Ukraine.

      If you want to be trusted – don’t lie.

        1. So the right wing bubble is just about half the country ? My how the “deplorables” have grown.

          Again still libertarain – not republican, not right wing either. Did not vote for Trump – twice.
          Not in any right wing bubble

          How about you – did you vote for Clinton ? Biden ?

          Do you beleive in the collusion delusion ?

          Do you beleive that elections in which the elections laws were broadly violated are legitimate ?

          I am not the one in a bubble.

  10. So I fear that’s only what would convince a rational attentive individual. The very fact that you don’t suspect the legitimacy of the election suggests that if these people were going to rationally weigh the evidence they already would believe it’s legitimate.

    While I want Dominion machines to be analyzed at some point so we are aware of their security weaknesses if this is for the sake of voters who are already not processing the evidence correctly why would you expect this to help and not merely to create more details that can be raised to cloud the issue and let everyone believe what they want to believe?

    1. If the truth raises more issues and further clouds the issue – so be it.

      Transparency is one requirement for Trust.

      I would note that a full examination of this is required – not merely to establish the outcome of the election but to determine whether we should ever repeat this, and what we must do to make the next election better.

      Absent inquiry and change – you can bet the next election will be worse.

  11. The election is not legitimate – there is no question. Further it likely can not be fixed.

    It should be crystal clear what was known BEFORE the election started – mailin voting is an abysmally bad idea.

    Regarldess we have had alarm bells regarding elections going off since atleast 2000.

    I am honestly distrubed at Prof. Turley’s insistance the problems are small and we should not be concerned.

    The presidential election in 2000 was decided by a small number of votes in Florida.

    With each subsequent election we have had innumerable instance of razor thin elections.

    In this envirnoment – Turley’s – the problems are small – just does not cut it.

    We must have elections we can trust. That is not only doable, it is not hard.

    We can expect more and more elections of all kinds that are decided by tiny margins.

    We are going to have serious trouble – we may have violence if we can not figure out how to both secure voting and deal with razor thin elections.

    Personally I think the georgia model is excellent – do not recount close elections – have an automatic runnoff.
    Though the Georgia runnoff is too separated from the election. The runnoff should be within two weeks of the election – not 2 months.
    There should be very little oportunity for either party to plot means to subvert the runnoff.

    In any election that the winner does not get 51% of the vote – have an automatic runnoff.

    That entirely eliminates the courts and reduces the political game playing.

    That also makes fraud harder – it is much harder to get away with fraud if you have to create a 2% margin.

    Regaredless, we should be looking at the election process to find ways to make the process itself more immune to fraud.

    No one fights about fraud when the margin is 10%.

    Next – if we are going to use machines or computers to count votes – we MUST randomly audit them – BY HAND.
    So long as everyone – the equipment makers, the parties, the observers, the election officials know there is going to be a random audit of the equipment, the risk of counting fraud nearly disappears.

    Next we have had enormous amounts of game playing by election officials (and Courts, both before and after) – THAT CAN NOT HAPPEN.

    Trump has asked for draconian remedies – such as not certifying the vote. Based o the evidence todate – he can not have that.

    HOWEVER Trump or any other candidate should ALWAYS have the ability to audit the election.
    The courts should have granted Trump and his attorney’s broad but supervised access to ballots, equipment, and mailin envelopes.

    Frankly the review that Trump wants should ALWAYS happen automatically. We do not have to check the signature matching and voter ID on every ballot envelope. Again these can be automatically randomly audited. Any error rate greater than the margin of victory should again result in an automatic runnoff.

    My point is not to advocate for specific ways to run elections.

    It is to note that we can design the elections to eliminate not only fraud by the appearance of fraud.

    And we must do that – because this is going to get worse not better.

    1. You misunderstand the GA rules. They have a runoff if one candidate does not get a majority (over 50%) then they have a run off. It has nothing to do with the margin of victory.

      1. I guess math and logic elude you.

        They are nearly the same thing.

        I would note that Biden did not get 50% of the vote in GA.

        How about a Runnoff ?

        And this time lets actually follow the law ?

        1. No, John, math and logic don’t elude Molly. She knows the law in GA –
          https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-21-elections/ga-code-sect-21-2-501.html

          You clearly don’t, or you wouldn’t make false claims like “I think the georgia model is excellent – do not recount close elections – have an automatic runnoff.” That’s not their model. Their model is to have a runoff if no candidate gets a majority of the vote, with an exception for presidential electors. If the difference is 50.1% to 49.9%, there’s no runoff, even though it’s close. If the vote is split three ways and the tallies are 49.9% to 30.1% to 20%, there’s still a runoff, even though it’s not close. Biden didn’t get 50%, but the GA law has an exception for presidential electors. GA followed the law the first time. You just don’t like the result, and you insult Molly. Grow up.

          1. You are trying to make a legal argument over her confusion about Math.
            There is no mathematical or logical difference between What Molly Said and what I said.

            I am not wrong merely for choosing different words to say the same thing.

            Do the math – it is the same thing.

            BTW all your “explaining” does not change anything,

            Further you entirely miss my point.

            Instead of fixating on some mythical difference between my way of describing GA’s runnoff process and MollyG’s

            Focus on what is meaningful. GA’s process keeps the courts etc out of election contests – the vast majority of the time.

            Can we do better than GA – probably. But MY POINT was that we can structure elections differently to avvoid politicizing our courts and to disincentive Fraud.

            BTW Jo Jo Jorgensen won 1.25% of the vote in GA. If the GA law did not except presidential races, Biden would have to have more than 50% of the vote and Trump under 48.75%. Biden would have have to have won by 62,000 votes to avoid a runnoff.

            I would further note neither you not MollyG actually read what I said.

            I suggested using the Georgia model for presidential elections AND making the runnoff a SNAP runnoff – a week later, 2 weeks later, not 2 months.

            Again not only are you weak at math and logic, but also at reading.

            My core point is not precisely how Georgia runs elections.

            It is that Georgia actually proves we can do better than we currently do. I think we can do better than GA.

            Coleman/Franken took something like 11months to resolve in the courts – and no one really trusts the results.

            That is bad for the parties and the courts.

            1. She wasn’t confused. Your inability to acknowledge the mathematical and logical difference between what Molly said and what you said — and your mistake — only further demonstrates your childishness.

              1. “She wasn’t confused. Your inability to acknowledge the mathematical and logical difference between what Molly said and what you said — and your mistake — only further demonstrates your childishness.”

                You are still harping on this ? My god you are dishonest.

                First, My initial remark was about the merits of runnoffs over court contests and recounts.

                The POINT was we can do better.

                I made it clear that I think GA’s process could be improved – but it was still better than recounts and court battles.

                And we see exactly why – right now, right in front of us – in GA – because their runnoff provision does not apply to presidential elections.
                And in myriads of other states because there is no option beyond court battles and recounts

                The smartest thing we could do right now is the have a runnoff in every state where neither Biden nor Trump won by a margin larger than the margin of error.

                Even though that is the smartest thing we could do – it is not constitutional, and it is not the law in those states – so instead no matter what half of us will be sure the election was stolen for the next 4 years.

                I would note this is the left’s doing. All you had to do was follow the rules.

                As To MollyG’s remark – she made a stupid attack on a small part of my comment that was entirely off point – and worst of all she was WRONG.

                And you are wrong by continuing to fight about it.

                  1. Insults are not arguments, and the error is your and Molly’s I would suggest rereading my original comment.

                    Moll and then you chose to stupidly nit pick and worse were wrong.

          2. Wow! Impresive, you can cite a law.

            Now what does that mean ?

            The GA law provides for Runnoffs rather than recounts.

            I said Runnoffs are a better idea that recounts and court battles.

            I specifically disagreed with the 2 month delay in GA for runnoffs.

            Do them quickly, do not give anyone an opportuintiy to spend 2 months gaming the election.

            And apply them to presidential elections, not just other elections.

            In every single state in the country where neither Biden nor Trump got a majority of the vote,
            have a snap runnoff 2 weeks later.

            The only role the courts would have in that is trying to get orders to require election officials to follow their state laws.
            Those would be easy. Just about every judge that has rejected Trump, would with near certainty write an order that required the election officials to follow their states election laws.

    1. Rhodes, there is much more. On the machines, from Deep Capture–

      https://www.deepcapture.com/2020/11/election-2020-was-rigged-the-evidence/

      Overall view–

      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V_jsdkqcO-Z99x2AsQrpmge7Q2bboyi0LXcMbXXG6AU/mobilebasic

      It wouldn’t hurt peeps to look up Color Revolution to see why the left dimm fascists are trying to steal this election. The election fraud is part of the overall attempt at taking down the USA. Also the Cloward & Piven book, Strategy & Rules For Radicals by Saul Alinsky.

      Two women have been doing separate investigations for some years now. One is Devvy Kidd at NewsWithViews & the other is Bev Harris at Black Box Voting. Bev discovered Fraction Magic, another vote changing tool put in vote machines.

  12. ” He should have declared immediately that his campaign would not oppose judicial review of any and all election challenges.”

    Has his campaign “opposed judicial review,” at any point?

  13. Absolute Proof of Fraudulent Dominion Voting Machines and Stolen Election in Georgia.

    Of course, you won’t hear a word from the mainstream media, Jonathan Turley, or just about any other media source. And the less than worthless Billy Bagpipes Barr, Christopher Coverup Wray, and the hopelessly corrupt DOJ, FBI, and CIA will be doing what they can to subvert and silence the truth. But they cannot completely stop the truth from being exposed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrpw0rI-APU

    Fredericks: Joining us now, Garland Favorito. Garland has been involved. So he’s a libertarian so he’s not like a Trump supporter anything like that. he’s an independent thinker and he’s been covering elections forever. We had him on a show in Atlanta. The second day we were there in Buckhead at our studios there he talked about these algorithms and he talked about the Dominion voting and machines. Nobody really took him seriously until now. Now they’re starting to pay attention. He gave testimony yesterday. He’s with us now. Garland Favorito, great to have you back.

    Favorito: Hey John thanks for having me back. And yeah actually I’m the elections director of the Constitution Party of Georgia and also the co-founder of VoterGA which stands for voters organized for trusted election results in Georgia. And here’s what I’m trying to do.

    Fredericks: Tell us what happened yesterday and what your testimony was in Ware County?

    Favorito: So thank you John for again. Let me tell you the story. It’s now become more amazing. This Senator Ligon cut me from the testimony yesterday. I was the number seven defense witness for the president. And Senator Ligon cut me out and moved me to the bottom and then cut off the witnesses and ended the hearing without me getting to testify. We were wondering why he did this and then realized that my testimony would have exposed the secretary of state of Georgia, the elections director of Georgia, and the legal counsel of Georgia for the secretary of state all for wrongdoing.

    Being an independent I expose corruption on both sides of the political spectrum. And that is why I was cut out of the the the hearing yesterday in spite of the fact that the president’s legal team wanted me as the number seven witnesses. So some of the reasons why I was cut is because of the way that the secretary of state compromised the hand count audit so that the results, basically the secretary not only compromised that but then he ordered certification of the Dominion results even with inaccuracies on it.

    That is what happened yesterday. And what the evidence that I had was that a Dominion voting system, in at least in one county, we found flip votes from Trump to Biden. That information never got on the record yesterday because of the chairman of the committee. So we had a case down there where we now know based on specific results from the hand count on it that at least three dozen votes or more we think about 37 more were flipped from Trump to Biden.

    And the elections director ordered the counties to certify the Dominion results anyway. So when you spread this across multiple counties the president lost hundreds of votes if not thousands because of the secretary’s decision and the election director’s decision. All that would have been exposed yesterday had I been able to testify.

    Fredericks: So Republican Senator Ligon who is leading this oversight hearing, he wouldn’t let you speak. He dumped you to the bottom. I saw you yesterday. I mean I simply had to leave because I think I left at about 6:30 p.m. just out of pure physical exhaustion. So I had to leave so I was not aware that you got dumped out of there. I know they put you down at the bottom. I want you to go over this 37 vote flip again. explain in detail when you say 37 votes were flipped on the Dominion voting machine because of the algorithms. Explain in layman’s terms to our listeners what you found and what exactly happened there.

    Favorito: Well it’s pretty simple. The election machines produced a count. When we did the full hound count audit the rather than and in addition to entering the results into the secretary of state system some of the counties kept their own results. So in keeping their own results they were able to tell from the hand count audit that President Trump got 37 more votes and Biden got 37 less as compared to the electronic count. So that told us because they did a full hand count audit and because the counties kept their own numbers and the results they could verify that that happened. So we know the machine shorted President Trump 37 votes. We don’t know which machine. The county has multiple machines down there.

    Fredericks: Ware County.

    Favorito: Yes. And they’re not going to give us access to the machines we don’t think. We would probably need a court order to impound the machine so that we could check the algorithm. But basically uh the president got 37 fewer votes on the machine than he should have and Biden got 37 more votes. And what’s interesting about this is this percentage which is two point two six percent of weight is exactly the margin of victory that Biden is currently accredited for having in the state of Georgia.

    Fredericks: The Democrats are going to claim well it was a glitch. Then they’re going to claim it was human error. How was it not human error? How is it not that somebody simply put the wrong ballot in the wrong slot? How is it not human error?

    Favorito: Well it can’t be a human error because the humans didn’t do anything wrong. You see there is no wrong slot to put the ballot in. Everybody puts the ballot in the same slot and then the tabulator tabulates the results. So there is no way for the humans or any voter to have made a mistake. This is exclusively isolated to the Dominion Democracy Suite 5.5 ICP or ICC system. The ICP is the precinct tabulator scanner and then the ICC is the county scanner.

    So there has to be most likely malware on one of those two devices. The only other possibility is that is a ballot definition mismatch. we talked to the elections director and he said no that would not apply because you know all the machines were configured exactly the same. So one of them could not have been out of whack according to the director.

    Fredericks: Garland, so let me get this straight. In Ware County, you went and they did a hand recount. And the hand recount of the ballots that were fed into the machine showed one number. And the machine showed another number. And when the ballots that were hand-counted were fed into the machine Biden had 37 more votes. Trump had 37 fewer votes which represented a swing of just over a quarter of a percent. Now there are 5 million votes in total in Georgia. You take a quarter of a percent and it’s 12,500 more than what Biden won by.

    So what you’re saying is that you fed the paper in and the paper, after feeding it in, there was a software algorithm changed that gave Biden 37 more votes and Trump 37 fewer votes. Now so what they’re going to say is oh that some machine had a glitch. Well, that’s what they’re gonna say. But it’s unfathomable. There’s a lot of glitches here right? If you found that in where county how many were in full county DeKalb County, Cobb County, Cherokee County, and Savannah?

    Favorito: It’s a great question, John. And we really don’t know because the secretary of state ordered the counties to enter their hand count audit data into his centralized Arlo system. This basically means that the counties don’t have their own totals for the hand count audit. So they have no way to compare the results.

    Fredericks: How did Ware County have it?

    Favorito: Some of the counties actually produced their own results and kept them. So Ware County had their own results.

    Fredericks: This is unbelievable.

    Favorito: I want to be honest with you. We don’t know if this algorithm was in other counties. We really don’t know w that. But we do know that it was in Ware County and we don’t think that it could have been anything else like what we call a ballot definition mismatch which is what they claimed happened in Akron County, Michigan. I don’t know if that’s really true. But it doesn’t appear to be any kind of error that the elections team in Ware County could have made.

    Fredericks: And you were going to testify to this.

    Favorito: Absolutely.

    1. If Dominion voting machines are flipping votes to favor the Democratic candidate, then Hillary should have won in 2016. And down-ballot races should have been flipped, as well — in this election and the last one.

      1. Nonsense. When Clinton ran against Trump, the Democrats believed their own polls that Trump didn’t have a chance. So they didn’t bother to take the extra steps necessary to rig the election then. The Democrat leadership was stunned then, being totally unprepared for the shock wave of Trump votes across the nation. During this election, the Democrat leadership was taking no such chances, even though their own polls showed Biden leading Trump. They were prepared this time to steal the election. So when the Trump wave became evident across the nation again, reflecting the real vote from the public, they stepped into action after 3:00 am and proceeded to engage in every conceivble method of voter fraud, from voter machine rigging to fake ballots. It is this very obviousness of fraud that gives the criminals away–to those that care about honest voting, which, of course, doesn’t people of your ilk,

        1. You think Republican Gov. Kemp and Republican Secretary of State Raffensberger are colluding with Democrats to award Georgia to Biden? What drugs are you on?

          1. Yes. They believe they are, and the entire federal judiciary, and the DoJ, and the FBI, and Fox News. The conspiracy to deny the Trump win was so big that that it is almost like if all the people conspiring just voted for Biden they would have had the same outcome.

            1. Typical left wing nut – you know what others are thinking.

              I think Kemp and Reffensburger desparately wish that Trump had won outright.
              I think they desparately wish that democrats in atlanta had followed the rules – which would have resulted in a Trump victory.

              But given they did not get that – neither have large enough balls to admit that the problems with validating ballots and counting them are such that the entire election must be tossed,

              That is what democrats have counted on.
              That the courts, the legislatures, in some cases republican governors would be unwilling to act when the only choice they were given was to toss the results completely.

              That is where the “conspiracy” exists.

              And they are probably right.

              But they are ultimately wrong about two things.

              Tens of millions of people will not accept that the election was trustworthy and legitimate (becuase it wasn’t)
              That is an incredibly serious problem and it undermines government
              We just had 4 years where most democrats did not consider the election legitimate because they bought a stupid fantasy.

              In this case we are dealing with indisputable facts – the election laws were not followed. Mailin ballots were not properly evaluated.
              Actions which massive numebrs of democrats are complicit in.

              The second is that any game democrats can play – republicans can do better.

              Either everyone follows the eletion laws – or no one does.

              If you think that 2020 was not rife with fraud – then you will have no problems with republicans doing the same things as democrats in 2022.

              Democrats won several house seats in 2018 through ballot harvesting. Republicans took them back in 2020.

              1. John Say keeps repeating the same falsehoods. No, Atlanta was not the problem for Trump – Biden underperformed Hillary there and blacks were a lower per centage of Georgia votes than in 2016.. Biden made his gains in the suburbs of Atlanta and across red counties all over the state – same as Pennsylvania, Michigan , and Wisconsin. Look at the 2nd map in this article:

                https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/17/upshot/georgia-precinct-shift-suburbs.html

                Link to map: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/11/05/ga-shift/ca466b48f3c7fbb9ce70465971abcfabac70e509/ga-shift-600.png

                This unpleasant fact blows up his narrative and that of Trump and his other defenders.

                1. Do you know where Atlanta is in Georgia ?

                  Look at your map. Where is the relatively large area that shifted even more blue ?

                  I attended Georgia Tech for 2 years. I know exactly where atlanta is.

                  I would further note the margin in Georgia is about 8000 votes.

                  In the 2016 election, 281,875 people voted for Hillary Clinton in Fulton County, and now in 2020, 379,00 people voted for Biden.

                  The growth rate of the Fulton county population per the US Census is 1.06%/year.
                  That would mean that If Biden did as well as Hillary in Fulton County – he would have gotten 294017 votes.
                  He got almost 100.000 more.

                  And you wonder why fraud is suspected in Fulton county.

                  As to your Graph – it clearly shows Fulton county as much bluer.
                  Beyond that your graph is mostly meaningless. The population of Fulton county is about 1M – it is Atlanta for god’ sake.
                  Fulton county is 1/10 the population of all of Georgia.
                  Even a small shift there dwarfs the rest of the state.

                  You graph shows percent changes by district. It does not reflect population. Some of those dark blue or red shifts could reflect 100 votes,
                  Some of the light blue shifts could represent 100,000 votes.

                  1. John Say you are an idiot or just a liar, and yes I know Atlanta, it’s suburbs, it’s urban core, and the growth way outside the beltway. Look at the map (direct link I provided) See the big blue ring with the white hole in the middle up near the NW corner of the state? The map shows how areas changed from 2016 election to the 2020 election. The blue ring is the Atlanta suburbs which trended blue compared to 2016 and the big white hole in the middle is Atlanta proper which stayed where it was, thus white. Note that even the mountain areas to the NW trended blue compared to 2016 as did the suburbs of other cities across the state.

                    Get it? Your “big cities” conspiracy is BS. If there was a big city conspiracy causing a state that went Trump in 2016 to go Biden in 2020, you’d see dark blue where you claim the conspiracy happened. IT DIDN’T HAPPEN. IT DIDN’T HAPPEN IN PENNSYLVANIA OR MICHIGAN either AND YOUR CONSPIRACY FALLS APART.

                    Trump lost by bigger amounts this time than he lost in 2016 because independents and some republicans in places like Blue Ridge Georgia and Bucks County Pennsylvania got sick of him.

                    I’ll bet lunch at The Varsity you’ll try to find some way to weasle out on this.

                    1. JF – we have beaten this to death.

                      The link you provided shows data that is NOT on point.
                      Even so it does NOT support your argument – it contradicts it.

                      Regardless I gave you the actual data – from the census as well as votes for Fulton county in 2016 vs 2020.

                      If you map actually supported your claim – then one of your map, the census bureau population numbers, or the 2016 and 2020 election tallies are wrong.

                      But that is NOT the case – all are right. Your map just does not demonstrate what you think it does.

                      Worse the fact that you continue this argument after I provided the Census data, and 2016, 2020 Votes is just stupid.

                      Biden had more than 80,000 more votes in Fulton county that Clinton did in 2016. Even adjusting for atlanta’s 1.06% growth rate – that is more than 60,000 additional votes.

                      This is not a “conspiracy” it is a fact.

                      And you can repeat this excercise on each of the 5 major cities that flipped this election.

                      Further this pattern is present ONLY in those large cities.
                      It is not present in New York, or Boston or SF,

                      Nor is it present in the suburbs and rural areas. Absolutely – as your map shows there are countries in GA (and the US) that Biden did better than Clinton – though not that many, and not of much consequence.

                    2. You think I am wrong – this is easy to test.

                      Unless they have been destroyed – and federal law requires that they be preserved for 2 years, go to each of the 5 major cities and get the envelopes in which the mailin ballots came in. Properly vet them according to the laws of those states.

                      I KNOW that PA requires a signature match, and a drivers license # that matches the voters name.

                      I believe GA, and AZ, and WI require the same. GA tends to require more verification that PA.

                      If after PROPERLY by law validating the mailin ballot envelopes – you have not invalidated significantly more mailin ballots than the margin of Biden’s purported victory – then you can claim victory.

                      But without doing so you will ALWAYS lack legitimacy. Unlike the luducrously stupid collusion delusion nonsense.
                      This is not one that you can fix.

                      I will further note that you do not understand the extent to which you have pissed off – not merely trump voters, but the republican majority legislators in these states.

                      As an example I do not think Republicans in PA will compromise with Gov. Wolf every again.
                      But this goes beyond Wolf and a handful of democratic governors.
                      There is no reason for Republicans anywhere to trust democrats anywhere.

                      That is what happens when you cheat. when you fail to follow the law – law that you participated in creating.

                      Lastly – you are making the same mistake democrats have been making for decades.

                      You come up with some political strategy that is effective – so long as ONLY democrats pursue it,
                      and then are surprised with Republicans do the same thing.

                      If Democrats in urban areas will not follow election laws – neither will republicans.
                      If you want to pretend that mailin ballot fraud is non existent – you can expect to drown in it.

                      Ballot harvesting is absolutely vile. Voting is supposed to be in secret. There is supposed to be no possibility of inducement or coercion.
                      Mailin ballots – especially coupled with ballot harvesting destroy that.

                      They do so whether democrats do it, or republicans do it.

                      In 2018 Democrats flipped several CA seats through ballot harvesting.
                      In 2020 Republicans flipped them back – by getting really good at ballot harvesting.

                      We could all agree that ballot harvesting is a bad thing – and CA should make it illegal, like most of the country.

                      Or we can have a contest to see which party is better at it.

              2. LMAO that you complain “Typical left wing nut – you know what others are thinking” in response to a question and then you proceed to pretend that you know what Kemp and Raffensberger are thinking.

                You are a nut, though not a typical one.

                BTW, the word you want is “desperately,” not “desparately.” Desparate has a very different meaning.

                1. If you can speculate on the thinking of Kemp and Raffensberg – why can’t I ?

                  Anyone can read your speculation and mine and decide for themselves.

                  Or we can forget what they are thinking and these stupid and bizarre appeals to authority of yours and fixate on the law and the facts.

                  There is far more than enough evidence to demand an investigation of Fulton county.

                  The lied to observers and the media, sent the public home and continued county ballots that we have no idea where they came from.
                  The did little or no verfication of signatures as required by law.

                  So what is the remedy when those who run the election violate the law egregiously ?

          2. Colluding with ? No. There is very little collusion in this election fraud.

            There is just lots of turning a blind eye to massive problems and hoping those who raise them will magically disappear.

            Raffsenberger promissed a HAND recount, and actual audit and a re-canvas.

            We got a recanvas that turned up thousands of missed trump voted. A machine recount. and no audit.

            There was no effort to verify the machine counts, there was no effort to verify the validity of the mailin ballots.

            That latter issue is the HUGE issue everywhere.

            While there are many many other allegations of “small” frauds

            The core republican allegation everywhere – which is just a FACT, is that in a mailin election – where we KNOW that very large percent of the ballots will be illegitimate – the norm for first time mailin voting is 20% invalid ballots.
            The normal rejection rate for absentee ballots – which are much better processed than mailin is 6%.

            The rejection rate i 5 cities that are being contested was below 0.25%.

            Are many rejected mailin ballots probably from legitimate voters ? Sure. But a portion of them are illegitmate.
            And the criteria we use to reject ballots is the only means we have to get rid of illegitmate balots.

            If you fail to verify mailin ballots – then you can not trust the results – you have opened a large window for fraud.

            That fraud MAY be an organized conspiracy to dump 100K votes. But it may also be lots of people like the woman in NYC who openly admitted that if it took 1M american deaths from Covid to get rid of Trump she was OK with that.

            Do you think she would be OK with sending in a few extra mailin ballots too ?

            WE have seen democrats and the media LIE to use for 4 years.

            It is not at all hard to beleive giving the level of crazy lying that some of the same people would be prepared to vote fraudulently.

            A mere 40,000 votes would flip this election. That is about 0.25% of the vote in 3 states. That same shift would throw 4 of the 5 contested states to Trump. A slightly larger shift would throw all of them.

            Yes, tens of millions of americans beleive that some of YOU are dishonest enough to do that. ‘

            We beleive that because you have already repeatedly said you wanted to get rid of Trump by any means necescary.

            We have already seen you lie and break other laws.

            Of course we beleive you would engage in voter fraud.

            As to Kemp and Raffensburg. Mostly theu are just turning a blind eye and want this to go away.

            The core issue – the verfication of the mailin ballots ultimately has no fix – and that is what scares, Kemp, Raffensburger, and the courts.

            Because of the way mailin ballots must be handled if the proper verification is not done BEFORE the ballot is removed from the sealed envelope – the only alternative is to reject all mailin ballots. A remedy no one wants.

            Did democrats “conspire” ? I think there is very few instances of election officials creating and entering fraudulent ballots – though tthere is some of that, there is ALWAYS some of that. 3 election officials in Philadelphia plead guilty for exactly that to the tune of over 100.000 ballots in prior elections. just in 2020.

            But the real conspiracy was to ignore state election laws, and to do little or nothing to validate mailin ballots or worse still to “cure” invalid one.

            That is an actual conspiracy, That is actual fraud, and that is already proven. And you will never get 10’s of millions of people past that.

            Did it change the outcome – probably.

            Will you get away with it ? In the short run – likely.

            In the long run like every democratic decision to not follow the rules – in the end it is YOU that gets bitten in the ass.

          3. I would also ask you why we should trust people who are OPENLY asking people to violate the law – to commit a fellony and vote in the GA senate runnoff ?

            Do I think the same people who are begging people to committ crimes in the next election were not also willing to committ fraud in the last one ?

            1. the alleged crime that patriots need to commit is “perhaps” TAX EVASION or tax avoidance or whatever you want to call it. tax protest, whatever. who cares the how just make it happen

              Don’t feed the beast. We do it like a general strike and it will crack the foundations of this rotten system and send the cockroaches scurrying as their Treasuries tumble

        2. JFeldman, spot on! HRC says she won the popular vote, but if there had been an honest investigation a lot of fraudulent votes in it’s, err, her favor would have shown up.

          After the’16 election, teams of inspectors were going from state to state to check for ‘messy voting’ Before dimms cried & moaned & wouldn’t let the team investigate, the team had uncovered enough fakery to eliminate HRC’s ‘lead’ in the pop vote to about even with Mr. Trump on the pop vote.

          If the investigators had been allowed to finish, I doubt HRC would have ‘won’ the pop vote.

          In ’16 Trump hit HRC like a tidal wave. In ’20 he buried Hidin’ Biden in a tsunami. The cheatin’ NWO dimms had underestimated Trump voter numbers & weren’t able to block the tidal wave. This time they were ready. But we caught them!

          They started a couple of years back or so. That’s why they don’t want voter ID, purged voter rolls & TA DA!, they DO want millions of mail in ballots to steal & mark themselves. But…this time they had to stop the counting & tabulate how far Biden was behind so they could stuff counting machines in favor of Joe Dementia.

          And that, ANON, is just what they did.

          You, Anon, are the one with all the rubbish as you try to cover for the dim cheats, thieves &liars.

          SamFox

          1. Again: You think Republican Gov. Kemp and Republican Secretary of State Raffensberger are colluding with Democrats to award Georgia to Biden? What drugs are you on?

            1. The consequences of an uncretifiable election in Georgia (or other states) are devastating.

              It is not surprising that many republics (or judges) refuse to think the unthinkable – just because it happened.
              The democrats who violated election laws are counting on that.

            2. Anon: “You think Republican Gov. Kemp and Republican Secretary of State Raffensberger are colluding with Democrats to award Georgia to Biden?”

              What do you expect them to say? —

              “We screwed the pooch. Under our watch, there were massive election mistakes and corruption. Our incompetence failed the good people of Georgia. At the end of this press conference, the Secretary of State and I will submit our resignations.”

              How may people (let alone politicians) have the honesty and integrity to take such responsibility?

        3. One of the problems here is that all the giant clearly criminal claims do not need to be true to have massive fraud that tilted the election.

          By conducting more than half the election using mailin ballots – in the most insecure way possilble, all that is necescary is for a small percentage of individual democrats to have been willing to cheat “a little” to “get Trump”.

          There were ordinary democrats openly admitting to the news that they would be OK with a million americans dying to get rid of Trump.

          Do you think those people would have a moral or ethical problem with sending in an extra mailin ballot or two ?

          And the mailin process assures that they will never be caught.

          We already know that there were large numbers of votes cast by ineligable voters – people out of state, dead people, people who do not exist. These do not have to be the product of an organized conspiracy. This election will flip over about 0.25% of the vote in 5 states.
          It will flip if only a total of 40,000 votes change – that is a bit more than 1/2 the votes that determined 2016.

          It was reasonable for democrats to assume that there would be a percent or two of illegitimate votes. The only “conspiracy” was to weaken the process of filtering our illegitimate votes to allow most of them to get counted. This is also a near perfect fraud – because do to the structure of mailin voting – once the ballots pass through the voter verification process – ballot is separated (this is required to have secret voting) from the identifying informatiom. Even if you later determine that an illegitimate ballot was accepted, you can not fix the problem.

          And this sets up the courts with an all or nothing dilema. They can KNOW that far too many illegitimate ballots were counted.
          But they have no clear example of individual malfeasance of large scale, and the only fix they have is to throw out the whole election – including milllions of legitimate votes. Few judges have brass ones that big. Absent some glaring example of egregious fraud, Trump is unlikely to win even at SCOTUS. Though it is still likely that the election was stolen.

          But Democrats should be concerned – “what is good for the goose …”. Republicans in CA in 2020 demonstrated that they too could take advantage of the criminally stupid CA ballot harvesting laws.

          If mailin balloting continues I think you can expect that operatives like Roger Stone will put together GOP mailin ballot operations to assure that for every name on the voter registration roles that should not be there a Ballot voting straight GOP is mailed out.
          This is a pretty easy operation to create, it is cheap, and it has 3 possible outcomes – both GOP and Democrat invalide votes are counted and cancel each other. Or both are invalidated, or only the GOP vote gets counted. Either way it is a win for Republicans.

          But there are other consequences of this election – no matter what the outcome.

          One of the unheard and unreported aspects of the legislative hearings in AZ, WI, PA – is that these legislators are REALLY PISSED.

          PA as an example passed a compromise voting law in 2018. Democrats accepted PA’s Voter ID laws and it was applied to ALL ballots – and Republicans allowed mailin ballots – with a collection of laws that made mailin ballot fraud harder.

          But the Wolf administration – with the impramatur of the PA Supreme court allowed ignoring all the antifraud provisions.

          In doing so democrats made future compromises with republicans virtually impossible.

          Those of you on the left do not seem to grasp that lying has consequences.

          If the PA legislature can not trust democrats to follow laws they agreed to – it is impossible for them to work together in the future.

          I doubt that PA republicans can get sufficient votes to rescind Pennsylvania’s election certification – though they already have 41 signatures and the issue will be voted on and they only need 106 votes. But even if they are not willing to rescind certification – any cooperation between democrats and republicans is over.

          If you can not follow mutually agreed upon rules, you can not be trusted.

  14. “President-elect Biden failed to see that this country’s divisions will not be resolved — even partially — without greater scrutiny. He should have declared immediately that his campaign would not oppose judicial review of any and all election challenges.”
    *****************************
    Thus, begging the question: Why would a candidate confident of the propriety of his victory fail to do so? Occam’s razor to the rescue.

      1. Aninny:

        It has two meanings. I used to teach logic. I’d know. The informal fallacy is actually known as petitio principii and refers to assuming the conclusion in your argument. It’s practitioners — like yourself — engage in this circular reasoning all the time, i.e. Trump is bad because Trump is bad.

        The other more popular meaning is an assertion that calls for a related question and hence suggests a conclusion, i.e. Sleepy Joe is not being transparent. Why? Because Sleepy Joe doesn’t want to be since its apparently not in his best interests.

        Do try to show some intelligence above that of a bright college sophomore.

        1. If you were ever a teacher, mespothelioma, you must have been a crappy one, because you’re ignorant and insulting. What you call the “other more popular meaning” is a mistake. Like the people who have popularized “I could care less.”

        2. Big Mess:

          Personally, I’ve never treated or thought of trump as bad at everything. Once upon a time I lived and worked in circles where I got to see his scams played out up close enough to know he’s a really, really good con man. And hey, he’s killed a couple of sacred assumptions in politics in general, one being that you have to play the ‘get annointed’ game (but truthfully, he learned this from Obama, trump just played the much cruder version of the game), another being that it’s somehow wrong to live almost entirely by executive order (again, he plagerized Obama from his second term in regard to this but just did it blatantly with no concerns for anything else other than himself in a thoroughly trumpy way)…

          Biden can learn a lot from the executive order directions trump has laid down. Biden should come in blazing in January and enrage you trump mutations with a slew of executive orders, knowing that McConnell will *never* work with a democrat. Don’t give Mitch a chance for any obstruction tactic he can’t earn by his own sleazy efforts. Make him howl into retirement, preferably soon with a dem sweep in january in the run offs.

          And you can howl right along with Mitch. I’ll love hearing you do it as the object of your orange crush fades into the distance of legal issues and obscurity. In fact I had this dream the other night of Nancy Pelosi going up to trump at Biden’s inauguration and saying: “yes…., we cheated…ummm….David.” Playing on two of trump’s prime paranoia’s — his inner belief of his own conspiracy theories and his terror at being forgotten.

          It was a beyond awesome dream.

          Elvis Bug

        3. I would further note that all fallacies are logic errors. A fallacious argument is not inherently a false one. It is one in which you can not trust the results.

          P implies Q
          P
          Therefor
          Q

          is absolute.

          Appeals to authority are not – experts can be right, they also can be wrong.
          The support of experts might increase the probability that your result is correct, the fallacy is the jump from probability to certainty.

    1. So What? Everyone has had the “Covid” aka” “Common Cold” in the Past!

      Learn what Science is?


      For The First Time, A US State Will Require Disclosure Of PCR ‘Cycle Threshold’ Data In COVID Tests
      Profile picture for user Tyler Durden
      by Tyler Durden
      Sun, 12/06/2020 – 10:45

      We have detailed the controversy surrounding America’s COVID “casedemic” and the misleading results of the PCR test and its amplification procedure in great detail over the past few months.

      As a reminder, “cycle thresholds” (Ct) are the level at which widely used polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test can detect a sample of the COVID-19 virus. The higher the number of cycles, the lower the amount of viral load in the sample; the lower the cycles, the more prevalent the virus was in the original sample. ”

      https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/first-time-us-state-will-require-disclosure-pcr-test-cycle-data

      1. BTW: I must add, Covid 19 is a very special “Common Cold Virus”, “An illegal “”Gain of Function Bio-Weapon” cooked up by Dr Fauci, Bill Gate’s foundation, Obama approve with China’s help.

        It’s at least a “Life in Prison” crime for US citizens aiding/abetting & an act of War by the Chicoms.

        Remember the Alamo? It’s about that time of the month the dead beats pay their past due bills!

      2. COVID is not like the common cold.

        It’s already the third leading cause of death this year.

        It’s the leading cause of death this week.

        The common cold rarely kills people.

        1. Interesting how they’ve stopped counting flu related deaths & other deaths & lump them all under the umbrella “Covid Related” instead of covid caused.

          More interesting is the amount of money the our corrupt gov pays if the hospitals say it’s covid. Like 53 or 54K per head.

          A person would have to be a ph’kin lunatic to get near a doc/hospital now with that kind of bounty on their heads!!!

          BTW: Shut up & take Bill Gates latest “No Liability”
          Covid Vaccine, he assures you again this time it’s “Safe & Effective”, He/Big Pharma has indemnity. ROTFLOLMAO! What he’s only been Banned from 28 countries for his Vaxxes?

          You pay the rest of your life for your very own “Flipper Baby or Funeral” LOL Fools! (ie: 1976 Swine Flu Vax… CBS video report/etc….No, I didn’t take that eirther thank God. )

          1. “our corrupt gov pays if the hospitals say it’s covid. Like 53 or 54K per head” is not true.

            1. I’ve been hearing it was written in one of the stimulus bills months ago. If it’s not true p[rove it & Infowars will be known as Ph’ Liars & I’m sure you’ll be Famous.

                1. Next time this topic prices paid per the schedule comes up on one of the different Infowars shows I’ll write down what they are using for the source & repost it here when/if I can.

                  I

              1. You’ve been hearing??? No doubt. i mean you could actually do the research and find out for sure. But no, trust Hannity on this one. He won’t steer you wrong. LMAO!!

                1. Or you could.

                  I do not know what is true – though I have read the same claims as OK.

                  But you do not know what is true either.

                  It would not surprise me in the slightest if Medicare and Medicaide provided more money for a C19 death than a Flu one.

                  And you can bet if they do that the inventive to classify Flu deaths as C19 would be enormous.

                  I find it odd that you do not trust big business one IOTA – but you presume they will behave perfectly – despite contrary incentives – when it suits your narrative.

                  As best as I can tell from CDC data – which since May CDC has been trying to hide.

                  The total deaths todate from all causes in the IS is only about 20,000 higher than the average for the past 5 years – not 200,000.

                  That means that whether C19 actually killed 200,000 people or not, that 90% of those deaths were going to happen this year regardless.

            2. Two members of my family are currently finishing up their residencies at a hospital in a hot spot. They have corroborated this. Hospitals etc. do indeed receive funds for listing cause of death as ‘COVID’, and they are most definitely exploiting that fact. It is thereby impossible to know the actual death toll, but it is almost certainly lower than is being reported.

              1. It is not completely impossible.

                About 2.8M people die in the US each year.

                We will know hoe many people died in 2020 very shortly.

                Unless the number is over 3M then we KNOW the C19 numbers are exagerated.

                And give or take we have an idea how much.

      1. No, you Commies have been Debunked on these issues!

        You must have missed all the great slap downs showing you’ve been debunked.

  15. Another look over here story that Turley loves to tee up for his Trump base who in their minds love to wave the flag and at the same time undermine democracy. The petulant refusal of accepting reality and their ability to sow division and create division is pathetic. Their deep seeded love for authoritarian rule overrides the integrity of democracy itself. And yet, there they are yelling at the top of their lungs how unfair it is that their choice for President was not the choice of millions of Americans that have seen the failed leadership of Trump. Trump is leaving the nation in worse shape than any President except Hoover and George W. and yet they want more failure from a man who openly bragged he could shoot people in the street and not lose any voters.

    1. Fishy, Do you agree that Fox News’ Chris Wallace is a whiny, unwatchable d*ckhead with an irritating cartoon-character voice?

        1. He can be good – when he wants to be.

          The problem is he is not good all the time.

          He makes choices as to when to be tough and when to throw softballs, and those choices are biased – that is not acceptable in a reporter.

    2. “Their deep seeded love for authoritarian rule overrides the integrity of democracy itself.’
      ******************
      If that were the case you’d be in some Gulag somewhere begging bread and water. An attractive flight of fancy for a Russian troll like your but still only a fantasy.

  16. Jonathan: I am surprised you are still beating the bushes for evidence to support Trump’s false claim the election was “stolen” from him. The case in Michigan that Giuliani is crowing about was not about Trump’s claims but about the vote in a tiny Michigan village over an initiative to legalize marijuana. BFD. It doesn’t change the outcome in Michigan where the Michigan State Board of Canvassers just certified the election for Biden. So pot didn’t save Trump.

    Now if you thought Giuliani could not be more deranged you should watch his performance and that of his star witness, Mellissa Carone, before Michigan’s House Oversight Committee. Carone, a former Dominion contractor, ranted, shouted over and berated members of the Committee over her false claims of election fraud. Her outbursts were so over the top that even Giuliani tried to restrain her. We now learn that Carone just got off probation for committing computer crime–she sent her boyfriend’s ex-wife graphic videos of she and her boyfriend having sex. Carone says she did this to cause the ex-wife to go “over the top”. Going over the top seems to be in Carone’s DNA. Now you would think Giuliani would want to do a background check of his star witness. Nope. Anyone who is willing to perjure themselves is fine with Giuliani as long as they will they support his spurious claims of voter fraud. Giuliani should be disbarred not only for professional misconduct but for being stupid!

    1. What I appreciate most about the far left wing is their adamant renunciation of bill for turning his back on the Rwandan Holocaust. They have never let up criticizing him for causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of poor black folks, for not lifting a finger to ask for U.N. Peacekeepers, for breaking the Proxmire Law, for lying through his teeth by saying he didn’t know how terrible circumstances were, when he absolutely knew.
      Yea, what the heck? We will hate on trump as soon as we’re done making sure bill goes to jail for his crimes, then, then we’ll accuse Don of every conceivable evil known to man. But, not until we make slick pay for co-conspiring to wipe out an entire people.

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