Below is my column in the Hill on the riot at Congress and its implications for our country. As shown by the unfounded rush for a “snap impeachment,” we are experiencing a crisis of faith in this country — not only in our Constitution but ourselves. Pushing for a snap vote (and snap judgment) on these issues will only exacerbate our divisions. This is a time for deliberative, not impulsive, action in Congress.
Here is the column:
All the images of protesters scaling the walls of the Capitol and briefly occupying Congress will remain seared in our collective memories for decades. Some called it a riot. Others called it an insurrection. Whatever you call it, it was a desecration. The rioters desecrated the most sacred moment of our constitutional system when the nation comes together to certify our next president. That is why it is too easy to treat this like an insurrection crisis. It is far more dangerous. It is a crisis of faith.
There were some truly dangerous people in this mix, such as the agitators who had pipe bombs and ropes. Groups like the Proud Boys and antifa have fulfilled these roles in violent riots on the left and the right for years. However, the vast majority of protesters on Wednesday were nonviolent. Indeed, if this was a real effort at insurrection, we can take great comfort that many of our homegrown revolutionaries have come across as more Groucho Marx than Karl Marx. Those in the Capitol were spread across the spectrum, from mocking to menacing. There were the various costumed characters but also men in camo with suspicious backpacks. Yet the guy taking a selfie with his feet on the desk of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi seemed more interested in Instagram than insurrection.
The ease with which protesters entered the Capitol was shocking. Despite reports in advance of their plans to march there, Capitol Police seemed undermanned and unprepared. Once inside, protesters seemed to have the run of the building. Many of them seemed as shocked as the members of Congress fleeing the House and Senate chambers. This has happened before, although not to this extent. When I was a young page in Congress, a protest by truckers led to an ornate Capitol building door getting broken down, followed by a rampage through the halls of Congress.
The media portrayed the disgraceful rioters as unimaginable. Yet it was entirely all too imaginable. We have had four years of violent protests, including the attacks on federal buildings, members of Congress, and symbols of our democracy. Former Attorney General William Barr was heavily criticized for clearing Lafayette Square last year after protesters injured numerous law enforcement officers, were injured themselves, burned a historic building, caused property damage, and threatened to breach the White House grounds. There were violent riots during the inauguration of Donald Trump and a lethal assault on some Republican lawmakers playing softball. Indeed, this year started as last year ended, with attacks on federal buildings in Portland and other cities.
Several people viewed those violent protests against the police and the White House as sedition, including Barr. I criticized such labeling of Black Lives Matter or antifa riots as sedition or terrorism. I view those labels as undermining free speech. As with the Black Lives Matter movement, I do not believe most of the protesters this week were rioters, let alone part of an insurrection. As with the protests last year, some instigators pushed for confrontations. But most were at the Capitol to voice an opposition to the certification of votes in an election they believe was stolen. I do not share that view, but it is held by some 40 percent of Americans.
What are these people if they are not insurgents or terrorists? The answer is they are faithless. We face a crisis of faith rather than of revolution. Our Constitution is an article of faith. This republic was founded by a leap of faith taken together by people of different backgrounds and beliefs. Yet the Constitution, no matter how well crafted, is ineffectual if people lose faith in its system or, just as important, in each other.
Our system is designed to give everyone skin in the game. It is meant to bring factional interests to the surface. Unlike those that ignore them, our Constitution forces those out into the open in Congress, where they can be voiced and addressed. Systems that ignore all such divisions explode from within, like in the history of France. Our system is based on a type of implosion in which those pressures are directed into Congress, where factional interests are turned into majority compromises.
The violence this week is not what James Madison hoped for in noting the factional interests in Congress. It was a bit too direct for a system based on representative democracy. However, that is precisely the point. Such action taken reflects the same crisis of faith that was evident in Lafayette Park and on the streets of Portland. That is far more dangerous than a few agitators using a protest to commit mayhem. It is not anarchy but instead alienation that we should fear the most in our nation.
For years, the public has shown a lack of trust and faith in our political system. There also is a wide rejection of the media, which once was a shared resource for information. The media has destroyed its credibility with years of bias, including blackouts on stories viewed as harmful to Democrats. Without faith in our leaders or the media, more than half of this nation appears to be untethered from the political system. That detachment is perilous for a representative government.
We need to hold accountable all those who committed violence in the Capitol. However, after we determine who stormed Congress and how they succeeded in doing it, we have a far more difficult task to address. After all, an insurrection can simply be put down, but a desecration is much more insidious and dangerous for our democracy.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
Jonathan: If there was any doubt who incited the storming of the Capitol and has no regrets you need look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Five people died as a result. One of those was Capitol police officer Brian Sicknick who was beaten to death by one of Trump’s storm troopers. Trump apparently condones that killing because he has refused to order flags to be flown at half-mast and has not called the Sicknick family to offer his condolences. Trump has shown his true colors. He is quick to condemn violence by BLM and Antifa but refuses to condemn killing when it serves his agenda of overturning a free and fair election. That’s what “banana republic” dictators do.
We know the composition of many of the insurrectionists who stormed and took over the Capitol. They were white right-wing nationalists, like Proud Boys and similar groups. who have long supported Trump. Trump counted on them to come out overturn the constitutional order. Also among the rioters was West Virginia state rep. Derrick Evans who has been criminally charged and now has resigned his office. There were other groups that helped plan the insurrection. The “Rule of Law Defense Fund”, the fundraising arm of the Republican Attorney Generals Association, sent out robocalls promoting Trump’s rally. The co-conspirator list gets longer by the day. Despite claims by Fox and other right-wing media Antifa and BLM were noticeably absent form Wednesday’s rally and riot. BLM specifically told its followers to stay because they had a premonition of what was going to happen.
Your whole column is an attempt to downplay the sacking of the Capitol. The guy who brutally killed officer Sicknick was not a character from a Groucho Marx comedy. When you watch all the video how can you possibly argue that “I do not believe most of the protesters this week were rioters, let alone part of an insurrection”? You must be living in some alternative universe. The mob that broke into the Capitol had weapons, molotov cocktails and other incendiary devices. They destroyed property, broke down doors and windows, defecated in the hallways and stole files, hard drives and computers. Members of the Senate and House had to run for their lives. That’s insurrection!
You are also complicit in what happened since the election. You supported Trump’s spurious legal challenges to the election results. You failed to condemn in the strongest terms Trump’s continued efforts to overturn the election–especially his attempt to get Georgia election officials to illegally “find” votes to change the vote count in favor of Trump. That was actual voter fraud which you have not condemned. You and Trump have relentlessly attacked the media for criticizing Trump for his unconstitutional behavior. You should be defending the press. The American people repudiated Trump’s attacks on our Democracy in November. They showed their faith in the electoral system. You are apparently one of the few that has “shown a lack of trust and faith in our political system”. Perhaps you are the one who needs to re-boot.
+10
Turley’s litany of deflecting and defending Trump has been very clear. While he panders to the Trump tribalism, he now will try to walk a fine line and that we should be more worried about desecration than insurrection. The desecration of facts and truth is the reason we now have insurrection. And Turley has been fast and loose with the facts and truth when it comes to the Trump administration.
+10
2020 will be the year the American form of government Democrats and Republicans fought for control over the last couple centuries died. We are now at that 1763 moment where we will start accumulating a long train of abuses. Democrats will have 2 years to prove to millions and millions of Americans we are going to remain a constitutional republic, or we are going to be something else altogether.
Facebook, Twitter, Amazon Versus Trump, Parler, Et Al.
Those three companies, among others, have severed all ties with Trump, Parler, and other conservatives. (That is their legal right.) They did so, allegedly, on the grounds that they do not want their companies used to promote violence against the innocent.
Their alleged motivation is hollow. If they were in principle against such violence, they would have long ago cut all ties with the politicians (including governors and mayors), the media and their pundits who openly and tacitly supported the Antifa/BLM violence against the innocent.
Their actual motive is obvious: They detest Trump and conservatives. Dorsey, Zuckerberg, and Bezos openly endorse Biden. They are opportunists using the Capitol Hill violence as a convenient excuse to do what they’ve been angling for: de-list, de-platform, destroy their political opposition.
If they have the right to refuse service, then you have the right to boycott them. Just like many fans did with the sports leagues, make your convictions known: Hit them where it hurts — in the pocketbook.
They removed Parler from their stores because it doesn’t moderate the content. Twitter banned Trump, like they’ve banned lots of other people on the right and left. Trump, Parler, and other conservatives still come up in Google searches, and he and other conservatives still have videos on YouTube. No idea how you think Amazon is involved. It’s a ludicrous overgeneralization to say that they’ve “severed all ties with Trump, Parler, and other conservatives.”
Correction, I just looked up the news about Amazon and see that it’s suspending Parler on its web hosting service, AWS, so now I understand why you included them. Parler can hire moderators.
“Parler can hire moderators.”
****
Censors
Do you object to Darren censoring comments here?
Darren moderates. Parler has moderators. What you want is censors.
From a publication that Google tried to demonitize earlier this year.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/10/twitter-hasnt-suspended-these-accounts-or-tweets-that-openly-incite-violence/
Young, having a moderator who actually moderates vs. Parler just having a moderator are two different things. One actually moderates the other just sits there as a title.
The left is free speech for me but not for thee. There is plenty of violent things coming from China, Iran etc. that they don’t censor. China has concentration camps but not a peep out of Social Media. China outright killing of citizens during Covid. China has killed protestors but still have open access. That is because the left makes money off of China while depriving American citizens of jobs.
They are hypocrites and dangerous. Anonymous is a nincompoop who cares very little about working Americans and families. He is a disgrace to free people and his only excuse is his stupidity.
Poor Allan. You’re preoccupied with me. I don’t think your only excuse is stupidity. Your vile character is a better explanation.
It seems that “Allan” got to you by labelling you Anonymous the Stupid, a very smart name that quickly informs everyone what you are. To date I have yet to hear anyone say anything good about you nor has anyone been able to point to any significant original statement you have made.
Using the term Anonymous the Stupid when referring to you is an easy way of others knowing which anonymous you are. Most of the times it is obvious, you are void of fact, or copying a link or another bloggers words. At other times you are busy forgetting facts provided earlier.
Yes, I think Anonymous the Stupid is perfect for you. Maybe everyone else should use it as well.
You ARE Allan. You admitted as much to Prairie Rose –
https://jonathanturley.org/2020/12/22/fox-news-got-it-exactly-right-amen-de-blasio-double-downs-on-plan-to-redistribute-wealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2041488
LMAO that you compliment yourself. You’re a sick man, Allan.
Darren removes comments. He censors, whether you can bring yourself to admit it or not.
“They removed Parler from their stores because it doesn’t moderate the content.”
That’s a sideshow. Facebook and Twitter do “moderate.” Yet both platforms permit the rioters and enablers I mentioned, above.
If aiding and abetting proactive violence is wrong (and it is), then it is wrong no matter who does it, or what they cite as rationalizations and allegedly noble ends.
When you see a man selectively apply a policy, then you know that that policy is *not* what motivates him.
P.S. Thanks for the “correction.”
Section 230 is going going gone, soon
Democrats want to kill it off as much as Republicans do
Good riddance
And throw that first amendment away too if you want. Things are way past that now
Anon, They removed Parler from their stores because the don’t censor their content? No complaints, from you when Facebook and Twitter will not censor your hated Putin. No complaints from you when Twitter allows the Ayatollah of Iran to tweet “Death to Israel. By your account only speech you disagree with should be monitored. Sorry, I meant to say censored. Your definition of speech allowed can be found in the China and Russia body of law. When you report back they will say to you, “Fine job comrade”!
TIT, you seem very fond of pretending to read my mind. Grow up.
The idea that Nancy Pelosi is the moderate wing of the Democrat Party just shows how absurdly stretched the American political spectrum has gotten. The middle has snapped. In a few years–or months–the radicals will dominate the Democrat Party.
The influences that got us here are still at work: globalization, immigration, and the radicalization of education and media.
I hope they can be moderated.
I hope Joe Biden is listening to people like you, Professor Turley.
I hope it’s not too late for him to fix it because the trend is becoming more violent.
So you think trying an auto-coup is ok, but trying to impeach for that is radial? The Ds are not the ones no need to be moderated.
It wasn’t a coup; it was a riot. The rioters went away. Arrests were made. Most conservatives condemned the violence and support the prosecutions.
Yes, the D’s need to be moderated. They are the monopolies now engaging in open censorship. They are the educators calling for speech codes and authoritarianism. Painfully few Democrats are condemning that, and those that do, like JT and Alan Dershowitz, are being condemned by radicals like you!
Thus, the Democrats are the ones needing the most moderation.
Tasers, pepper-spray, flexcuffs, and improvised explosives were carried into the Capitol.
The criminals who did so could easily have taken hostages, or executed sitting Congressmen. That is a categorically different type of violence than the vandals, arsonists, and looters of 2020.
If “most conservatives” condemn the violence and support the prosecutions, they should stand up and demand the sitting Congress members who encouraged and helped organize this attack are removed from power. They have broken their oath of office.
They didn’t take hostages, etc. They left. Even Trump is prosecuting the worst actors.
You’re creating a rationalization to silence the opposition. You build the gulag, and we’ll out you in it.
People who love tyranny don’t always get the tyrants they want, buddy.
They only failed because the Capital Police held them off long enough to get the Members out, and they did shoot someone to stop them.
It was a riot. The riot is long since over. If it had been a coup attempt, the police could not have stopped them.
Like I said, you just want an excuse.
Eh? A rationalization? No, this is a warning.
You and your allies may succeed in getting half the country to downplay the significance of this attack, just like Trump and his administration succeeded in getting them to downplay the pandemic which has now killed hundreds of thousands of Americans.
If you do, we will see another, more violent attack against our government’s most critical offices.
You may just get the civil war you’re looking for. I hope your children thank you for it.
Diogenes,
It was an attempted coup. This was about an individual who wanted to subvert the will of the people. Trump clearly WANTED to change the vote. Inciting the mob of followers was an attempt to force the change. He even called while it was ongoing to find more votes in his favor.
These trump nutjobs didn’t just commit violence. They looted offices. Sh!t in the hallways like filthy animals. Killed a police officer. and shouted slogans demanding Pence be hanged.
Trump being banned from twitter and other platforms is not an attack on free speech. These platforms are in no way obligated to carry the president’s messages at all. The first amendment is to protect YOU and others from the federal government. Not private companies. Nobody is forced to sign up to twitter or facebook, or any other platform. EVERYONE AGREES to THEIR terms and conditions when they sign up and that includes the president.
The president claims his freedom of speech is being violated. Nope. Twitter cannot violate your freedom of speech because it is obligated to guarantee it under the constitution. If trump wants to force twitter to carry his message THAT would be a violation the first amendment.
They left and Trump is prosecuting the worst rioters. You’re just looking for an excuse to do worse than they did.
Diogenes, don’t worry about last week’s drama. In 2021 we are going to see worse than 2020 from every faction. Buckle up folks.
Just remember this. The party people and functionaries are paycheck workers, mercenaries, not true enemies, just hired help. Don’t get too mad at regular people
Don’t get too attached to one seeming ally or one seeming foe. Everything is fluid
Except for this. The group of the billionaires is the enemy. They seek to control every faction, but in the end, the factions will have to unite and destroy them, or they will destroy us
Remember, people are now obsolete and they want depopulation. That is coming fast, it’s behind every big push we have seen from the elites.,
This is the true north of this situation, a way to make sense of it and keep your orientation as chaos unfolds. Billionaires are the enemy.
And they are globalists. They actually want to weaken governments which oppose them, and stregthen those which serve their agenda.
They will fund and encourage some groups and then cast them aside.
Today they look like they suport one thing and then it’s on to the next before you blink your eyes
We can see that they will switch on a dime, from supporting a government to punishing it, they will turn 180 degree overnight.
And then they turn back again.
They have no loyalty to anyone and only reckon interests. That’s it. And they always update their strategy based on emergent conditions
They are smart and it shows. And the people who oppose them need to learn from their adversaries at every turn and fast.
There are ways to follow their designs. One of their most obvious coordinating mechanisms is the World Economic Forum. I recommend that to everyone who wishes to understand how they think and what they plan to do. Don’t study it a little, study it a lot. Go back a few years and read their strategic white papers and you can see that a lot of what’s happening is unfolding according to their openly stated plans.
Saloth Sar
The moment these trolls get control of DC, you will be remembered as a prophet.
Diogenes, just because they left doesn’t negate the fact that they tried. Trump “prosecuting” them after encouraging them only shows how manipulative he is to his clueless followers.
” These platforms are in no way obligated to carry the president’s messages at all. The first amendment is to protect YOU and others from the federal government. Not private companies.”
STUPID ! GOOGLE, AMAZON, APPLE, ALL THE BIG SILICON VALLEY ENTERPRISES OWE THEIR SUCCESS IN PART TO THE US GOVERNMENT
THE INTERNET ITSELF WAS BUILT, LITERALLY, BY GOVERNMENT
THEY ARE AT BEST UTILITIES.
the analogy to purely private companies is preposterous. You would think “leftists” would understand this
https://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2019/08/14/project-38-omara-and-silicon-valley.aspx
There are hundreds of articles which explains this but you guys are deluded and won’t bother to inquire into economic reality
https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/04/the-government-once-built-silicon-valley/
Saloth Sar
“Saloth sar”, nope. Despite being reliant on a government invention no social media platform is obligated to carry the president’s message. None whatsoever.
They are not bound by the first amendment. They can’t violate your right to free speech because they are NOT the federal government.
People are not forced to sign up, they are not forced to agree to their terms and conditions. Trump signed willingly. They have full right to censor him or ban him permanently if they wish.
Autogolpe is what a crazy Congress wants to do, when all they have to do is wait two weeks and then their man takes over. Nuts!
Turley’s blog posts are Exhibit A of his own bias & lack of credibility. For the past 2 months, the President of the United States refused to accept he lost the election, continually peddled baseless conspiracy theories about his opponent’s party committing wide scale voter fraud, pressured elected officials from his own party to change election results, fired the Homeland Security cyber security chief for verifying that the 2020 election was the most secure election in US history, called the Supreme Court “totally incompetent & weak” for not overturning election results & vowed to end the political careers of every Republican who voted to certify Biden’s victory.
So what has Turley been obsessed with over the past 2 months? Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Chuck Todd, Jake Tapper & Hunter Biden. Ever notice when JT says “the media” he avoids mentioning that for 6 months leading up to election day, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity & Levin relentlessly claimed that if Biden & the Democrats won the election, it would be the end of democracy in the US? After the election, they told their loyal listeners the evil Democrats were trying to steal the election & destroy our country. They billed January 6th as the day Trump supporters were going to take back our country. Some compared to the Revolutionary War.
Limbaugh, Hannity & Levin’s loyal listeners are easily identifiable by their fun catch phrases “the Biden crime family” “DemocRats” “Democrats AKA communists” & the way they attack & insult anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs.
Turley would be wise to start acknowledging how Trump & his conservative media defenders are systematically undermining public trust in election results, the Electoral College, Governors, state officials, federal judges, the Supreme Court, Homeland Security officials, & national intelligence agencies. Definitely a peculiar example of making America great again.
Those entities mentioned in your last paragraph did the damage on their own. Didn’t need Trump or “conservative media defenders” to see what was happening in front of our own eyes. Maybe YOU need to be in your info silo to convince yourself, but other people are able to see through the fog on their own.
How did they do damage? By telling the truth?
DV, if you want to talk about the conservative media, here’s what National Review editor Rich Lowry says: “Trump has been engaged in a grotesque, but utterly characteristic, display of failed leadership since he insisted late on Election Night that he’d won big. He hasn’t looked beyond his personal interest, or made even rudimentary gestures toward public-spiritedness. He has misled his supporters, whom he has long told politically convenient fables, whether it was that Mexico would pay for the wall or that the election would be overturned if only Republicans fought hard enough.”
. . . fired the Homeland Security cyber security chief for verifying that the 2020 election was the most secure election in US history
That’s an idiotic fake-news trope. You know as well as I that he is not qualified to make such a declaration. He doesn’t know the first thing about the election of 1816 or of 1836. He just fabricated a stupid lie to stab his boss in the back.
. . . fired the Homeland Security cyber security chief for verifying that the 2020 election was the most secure election in US history
That’s an idiotic fake-news trope. You know as well as I that he is not qualified to make such a declaration. He doesn’t know the first thing about the election of 1816 or of 1836. What was wrong with the election of 1976? He just fabricated a stupid lie to stab his boss in the back.
No, he was completely qualified. Election fraud was far more common in the past, but has been cleaned up more and more every election. His statement was reasonable and meant to install confidence in the election. It is his job to tell the truth, not cater to Trump.
Strange that you say “he,” when it was the entire Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees –
https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election
Why do you assume that they lack the expertise to read research about election security?
It’s not strange to say “he”, when the comment I am responding to said “he”. And I do not presume he or “they”: are unable to READ. How in the world did you come up with that nutty interpretation?
I presume that he or they didn’t do the reading; I presume that even if he or they did the quality and quantity of information from elections in the distant past would be insufficient to allow the confident conclusion he or they pretend to have made; I presume that even if he or they were fully informed he or they would be motivated to lie since they are commenting on their own oversight and voting equipment.
These are all eminently reasonable presumptions, each of which is almost certainly correct..
Your presumptions are bull. It is not hard to know that our elections now are more reliable then in the past. Many books have been written about it. You also don’t need to know that many details about past election messes to know that his one is cleaner.
So all you have are presumptions. Got it.
They’re rebuttable, but until they’re rebutted the Cancer’s statement is a lie.
Ever notice when JT says “the media” he avoids mentioning that for 6 months leading up to election day, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity & Levin relentlessly claimed that if Biden & the Democrats won the election, it would be the end of democracy in the US?
Prominent voices from the *Left* told us that if Biden won it would be the end of democracy. Why should we doubt their stated intentions?
RP7, you can’t seriously be suggesting that the Democrats/liberals weren’t also engaged in the same “verbal warfare” that you accuse Trump and the Republicans? Are you really forgetting Stacey Abrams and the Georgia governor’s election? The repeated references by politicians to those that they did not like as “Nazis”? The praise heaped on BLM and Antifa when they rioted and set fire to property and occupied government buildings for extended periods? The calls by Democrat politicians to “get in the face” of conservatives?
The problem is with BOTH SIDES in our two-party system. Blindly pointing a finger at one side and saying “it’s all your fault” is willfully ignoring reality.
BTW, I’m not a fan of Trump and he wasn’t my choice in the 2016 Republican primary. At this point, Trump has become so divisive (whether deserved or not) that I’m not sad to see him leave office (and he WILL leave, one way or another). By the same token, I’m not optimistic that either Biden or Harris can be successful in “uniting” the country as they proclaim. Many of their proposed policies are highly objectionable to conservatives and, hence, divisive in nature.
Thank you. I also harbor doubts about the incoming administration’s ability to recognize the political land mines.
BW, thanks for your comments. Not quite sure how you leapt to the conclusion I’m blindly pointing the finger at one side & willfully ignoring reality. Members of both parties are guilty of inflammatory rhetoric.
I’m curious about how you reacted when 5 of Trump’s former Cabinet members & advisers called him unfit for office? These are lifelong Republicans who worked with Trump on a daily basis. Do you believe the 30 Republican governors, Congress members, & former GOP presidential candidates who endorsed Biden are willfully ignoring reality?
Perhaps he expects the Trumpists to win, and he’s trying to feather a nest with them.
+100
From day one Democrats launch Russia Russia Russia for nearly 3 years, a bogus impeachment and you want Americans to believe in the results of an election they manipulated? Remember what Hillary Clinton advised Biden: “Don’t concede under any condition”, that was OK right?. Put all the rioting, looting, burning, injuries and defund the police in the rear mirror. Remember what the incoming VP said during all of this: “They’re Not Gonna Let Up and They Should Not”, but that’s OK right?
Now Amazon, Apple, Google, Twitter and FB are doing whatever they can do to shut down Parler. Kinda shaping up like the ChiComs?
There’s a lot going on and for all the Americans who post here, I wish to emphasize Americans you better wake up to what’s happening to our beloved Republic.
Well said.
I hope they wake up, too. Podesta and his buddies can do wargaming all day long. Won’t matter if the $hit comes down.
Corporate America breached the Capitol long before this. Populist have no party now and must create one. a Unity of moderates and conservatives. This is definitely a Reichstag Fire.and they will use it to strip the bill of rights and amendment of all that stands in their wat. if that happens then Revolution will be inevitable and justified.
Understand this irony of history. Where we are now, the center-left Democrat and Silicon Valley erstwhile fascists, both concentrated on the coasts, who have the money power, have more in common with the corrupt Nationalists of China, during that nation’s 20th century civil war, and the flyover red state common people have a lot more in common with the CCP of the last century, that fought the upper crust national traitors in their coastal enclaves, from the heartland of China and won that civil war in 1947.
What the American flyover heartland lacks, is the kind of fierce and determined political leadership and organization, that the CCP had in their fight against the corrupt “upper classes” of China at that time.
Study that Civil war, without prejudice, without thinking of Mao and his crew as the bad guys, and you will see the patterns are obvious
A similar pattern pervaded with Ho Chi Minh.
The national traitors all take money from foreigners, they always have the bigger ties to big business and trading interests. Just like now. Biden and his coastal business backers in finance, trade, and silicon valley, are all eager to take the money from the foreigners who threaten us today.
The irony is, that foreign regime, was established by the peasants of that country’s heartland in the last century. I know it’s hard for people to understand the analogy, most of all, because you have to get rid of the basic misperception that Asian communism was communist. Oh, it was certainly socialist, but in fact is was fundamentally and most of all, nationalist.
Once you turn that key, the insights come to you quickly and clearly.
Saloth Sar
Turley: “We face a crisis of faith rather than of revolution,”
***
Exactly. Trust and respect are gone.
The Capitol is just an historic building now and barely even that to much of the country, a playground for radicals, grifters and the stupid, and amen and awomen to that with hopes that Guam won’t tip over.
The Supreme Court? Nice architecture filled with cowards. Even judges ignore and ridicule them.
The White House? Soon to be an expensive assisted living center for demented seniors.
Laws? Not really enforced evenly and equally. Lois Lerner is doing well. So is Hunter Biden, the First Son. My God, what a train wreck the whole country is.
Speech only when approved.
The real mob in the Capitol has offices there.
Your comments make clear that you’re an extremist.
Extremist? Compared to what?
How about, “compared to anyone who believes in the peaceful transition of political power in the USA”?
Voicing opposition to what has become our institutions of government, such as Young, myself and millions of others are doing, is not extremism from the peaceful transition of power.
Democrats are now on the clock to prove to those voicing opposition that we are all part of a majority that peacefully support constitutional governance, or that our fears of perpetual minority status with no voice and no security of rights are valid. So far, Democrats are validating those fears.
“Without faith in our leaders, or the media, more than half of this nation appears to be untethered from the political system.” Exactly. But why does that make it “dangerous” to a continued “representative government”? Revolutions have never arrived as scheduled by History, and we may look like a functioning democracy when it finally happens. But maybe it happened already. Christopher Caldwell was right when he said that the Civil Rights movement ushered in an alternate competing Constitution that co-exists with the old one. The fact that this Second Constitution is an incoherent fraud hasn’t seemed to prevent it from becoming the dominant rule of law. Our current “crisis” only came about when we stopped trying to fit them together. The dominant call from each party now is to stop pretending that both can exist, and to choose only one. But, I disagree that this means we need some kind of violent overthrow, or something like that. What we call “normalcy” in this country always seeks its own level, which is generally complacent and dumb. Call it “moderate”. Genuine liberty may just have to go in the closet for awhile, but I believe, or merely hope, that the “faction” that has always protected it will dominate again. Perhaps someday.
To Molly G: Frivolity falls under ‘failure to state a claim for which relief may be granted,’ not standing.
Lin–True enough. A claim rejected for lack of standing may be a valid claim with a strong chance of prevailing when made with the right party, the party who has standing.
One suspects that standing, mootness and laches were used liberally by judges running like scalded dogs from these issues. Otherwise, they seem to think their opinions and judgments are needed on practically everything else, welcome or not. They are willing to legislate from the bench but they excuse themselves when a major legal issue needing a judicial decision is before them.
In a civil society laws are followed voluntarily out of respect for the rule of law itself. When that respect collapses then what?
Conservative judges also run from cases in which they would be asked to overturn an election as a remedy. Doing that might result in actions that would threaten the judiciary as an institution. The bigger problem is that judges refused to intervene beforehand to enjoin state election officials who were promulgating rules and procedures not authorized by the legislature. By allowing state executive branch officials from substituting their judgment for those of the duly elected legislatures, the courts threw the elections into chaos and we can see the results. If election law is whatever the state executive branches and local election officials say it is, every election that we have from now on will be seen as invalid by the losing candidate and his or her followers. That is the way to anarchy and revolution.
Trillium- Indeed.
I’ve also been curious whether trump, right now, is perfectly timed to change the OLC guidelines on non indictment of sitting presidents. It’s the only way he survived the Mueller report. Hell, it’s the only way he was able to skate on being interviewed by Mueller.
Seems, if the guideline was reversed the hammer could get dropped on trump right now and he’d have to attend to indictment in NY. The coming Georgia and D.C. charges will take longer to play out, but could probably be expedited as well.
Elvis Bug
Mueller explicitly testified that the OLC guidelines had nothing to do with his decision not to prosecute. Moreover, his report reported nothing that constituted criminal conduct. And why would Trump change the guidelines to cause himself to be indicted?
You’re not telling the truth, William, which is why you’re not quoting Mueller’s testimony (well, that, and you’re being too lazy to look it up).
The Mueller reported multiple acts that constituted criminal conduct, including obstruction of justice.
Trump will not change the guidelines. Congress can and should.
Yes, thanks. I misspoke on Trump being able to change the guideline. He literally can’t change it. Meant to say it would be a good time for it to be changed by the Justice Dept…
Well past time, actually. “Individual One” never was a good name. I prefer John Barron. Or David Dennison.
Elvis Bug
He didn’t find anything that met the elements of any obstruction statute,. which may explain why he never tried to tie any specific statute to any specific conduct. The things that he discussed are laughably far removed from actually constituting obstruction.
William — They were so zealous and eager they would have charged him with jaywalking if they had the goods. They had nothing to look at except their own crimes in furthering the coup attempt. Then they began destroying evidence.
He found multiple actions that met the elements of obstruction, and he spent quite a bit of time explaining why.
You’re in denial.
There were 10 instances suggested of where to take obstruction investigation if the OLC guidelines weren’t a factor. Look them up.
Elvis Bug
Thank you to Professor Turley for providing us a forum/online platform to debate and express our differences in a peaceful and harm-free manner. While some commenters merely seek validation of their own marginal views, others truly wish to have their opinions at least considered in the overall discussion from all sides…
I second that. The Professor is a hero, to be sure.
Agree with the crisis of faith, Turley.
Disagree with the idea of “snap impeachment”. He’s already been impeached, this would just be a re- iteration. Only thing that didn’t happen the first time around was McConnell allowing witnesses and repubs being willing to remove (even though many granted he’d committed an impeachable offense). An impeachment now would just actually give repubs a chance to take responsibility for their negligence during the first impeachment. There has to be consequence for trump’s incitement. There isn’t a president less deserving of a pension and Secret Service protection in the future than trump. There should be absolutely no way for him to pardon anyone or anything this week.
Best path forward is obviously the 25th because trump is obviously a sick man who saw no problem with whipping up a segment of night riders. He thought a good close to his term would be to re visit Charlottesville at the Capitol. He is, and was, incapable of doing the job.
As to the 40% who don’t believe the election results…, they’ve been worked by a hypnotic style public relations effort by Trump to distrust the election for upwards of a year. He saw the effect Russian disinformation had on the American public in the ’16 election. Trump is an adopter…, he turned the term ‘fake news’ to his own ends after it began in other circles. He’s taken the clenched fist gesture from the black power movement in the 60’s. You can clearly tell he’s been influenced by Don King, maybe even Al Sharpton, only instead of social and racial justice he’s been interested in division and chaos. And it’s beyond clear he’s always had an obsessive fascination with Barack Obama So, no, I don’t much care that 40% are too deluded to accept election results, I have no interest in reacting to the results of trump’s PR campaign.
Right now, public news stations across the country are doing stories about local whites who went ‘wild’ at the Capitol saying it’s the worst decision they’ve ever made in their life. And white supremacy has put itself into Timoth McVeigh territory. The FBI will be looking at Parler as the equivalent of an Al Queda/ISIS chatroom, so thankfully lets hope we’ve turned that corner.
Re-impeach trump tomorrow. Withhold the articles until 100 days into the new Senate. Then vote on it almost as an exit review into whether someone deserves to keep their benefits. And let’s be done with this clown.
And please, republicans, never again play the ‘why impeach when an election is coming up’ game and then actively mount a public relations campaign to distrust that election. It’s one of the worst things that’s ever happened in American history.
Elvis Bug
Elvis, you are mistaken that everyone who believes the election results were fraudulent, did so based on Trump’s “public relations effort.” Not everyone is on Twitter or even keep up with what Trump says. Look past your belief (or projection) that those whose opinions you disagree with are solely influenced by Trump or even the Republican party. You are missing what’s truly going on.
No I get it. That’s why I referred to a major segment of Capitol ‘wilders’ being night riders. They’re a thread of the same that would throw on a robe, grab a torch and ride to a lynching. They’d never call themselves that…, would maybe even be shocked by the realization they’re taking part in the same political and philosophical thread, but their behavior puts them squarely in that tactical group. In fact, much as the the police held space for the Klan in the south, whatever stand down order was in place with the Capitol Police equates with the same in the modern day.
What’s going on? The aggrieved white dominated trumpists just put themselves front in center of the FBI. Ultimately, from a regressive revolutionary perspective, they just made a collosal mistake. And they did it because they don’t recognize, and aren’t cognizant of, their own white privilege.
But hey, feel free to believe you’re different. Probably a good time to review what happened with John Wilkes Booth & his crew. Or more modern day: ISIS & Al Queda.
Elvis Bug
Elvis, Trumps public relations effort? I might accept your premise if you would have mentioned the efforts of MSNBC, CNN, New York Times, TPS, The Washington Post, Twitter, Facebook, The Las Angeles Times, etc, etc, etc. did you ever think when you were a young revolutionary that you would someday be so dedicated to the establishment. Like the main character in 1984 you’ve just given up, given in and accepted their control.
Elvis, you are mistaken that everyone who believes the election results were fraudulent, did so based on Trump’s “public relations effort.”
————————-
This is true. A great many of them are victims of a propaganda campaign waged by disinformation outlets masquerading as news organizations. Fox News, the OAN network, and the Epoch Times, at least, have published months’ worth of completely false accusations, pretending they were publishing “news.”
They have additionally supported and reinforced the false claim that the election certification process that occurred on 1/6 was an opportunity for the Senate to overturn the results of the election and keep Trump in power.
The Trumpists will believe anything that fits their worldview. The 2020 Presidential election was completely typical in terms of fraudulent attempts to vote, or election tampering by officials.
If you actually believe there was pervasive fraud in the election for the benefit of Joe Biden, you’re a dupe, just like the rest of the Trumpists.
Charlottesville at the Capitol? Charlottesville was a riot and violent attack by the LEFT on peaceful right-wing protesters after the police forced the peaceful protesters into an angry left-wing mob. .
And DV is right. The problems with mail-in voting are evident to any sensible person, and no one needed help in noticing suspect events of election night. There is an objective reality, and those on the right are much more connected to it.
Elvis Bug – Thanks for the education as I now understand that “An impeachment now would just actually give repubs a chance to take responsibility for their negligence during the first impeachment.” I had mistakenly believed that Trump had not been impeached based on the merits.
I now understand that: 1) Having VP Biden in charge of U.S./Ukrainian affairs is not a problem, 2) Getting Hunter a multimillion dollar job with a Ukrainian oligarch is not a problem, 3) Having the oligarch email Hunter specifically stating that he want to use his influence with his dad to modify U.S. foreign policy is not a problem, 4) Having Hunter arrange an in person meeting in D.C. with sitting VP Biden and the oligarch is no problem, 5) Have VP Biden state on camera that he told the Ukrainian President that he would withhold $1 billion in U.S. aid if he did not fire the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating the Ukrainian company that Hunter was a director of, no problem, 6) Having VPBiden brag that the prosecutor was fired hours later is not a problem, 7) Having the subsequent U.S. president (Trump) ask the subsequent Ukrainian president about this matter and suggested that there should be an investigation in the matter should be a major problem and an impeachable offense.
How dare that dastardly Trump bring up the subject when there is obviously nothing to see.
Elvis I am a registered Democrat and as one who has been an election worker I saw the mass mailing idea as a coming disaster. Eliminating signature verification and ballot harvesting also undermined the trust of voters and not with just Trump supporters or Republicans.
You ignore that the normal process was thrown out. No signing in for signature verification as usual and voting in person are more secure is a fact. We can go food shopping in crowded stores, but we could not vote as we have done, never made sense to me.
I grew up in a politically divided family and never was their a demonizing of the other. Arguments of sport teams was more frequent. The Democrat party is no longer the party of my Mother and her parents. Like the 500 thousand of the #WalkAway movement I will be leaving and become an independent. BTW FB has cancelled #WalkAway and the members of the group pages
If Parler did like FB and Twitter the FBI would have nothing to track. You don’t police violent elements by sending them underground to plan in secret. While I detest their ideology and speech, you cannot identify them without them also having free speech.
I have read the text of Trump’s speech and nothing in it incites violence or breaking into to the Congress. Americans have a right to protest, march and speak their discontent and that is all that was encouraged. 99% of the protesters were peaceful. I condemn those who acted violently and I do not see any go Fund me page for their defense being successful. However, it is far from one of the worst things that happened to our country.
Weeks ago the Democrats were talking about using the 25th, so I do not see their current actions as impulsive. It was planned and it will cause more division in the country.
Americans have a right to protest, march and speak their discontent and that is all that was encouraged.
——————–
Josh Hawley stood on the Senate floor and announced that the violent extremists who were breaking into the Capitol were “his people,” and that they deserved to be heard.
That is well beyond encouraging the right to protest. Wake up. The criminals who made it into the Capitol could just as easily have carried out a bloodbath.
That was a dress-rehearsal. Wake up.
I hear you Bengalmomma but the 1%, I’ll just take your example for instance, the 1% killed a cop. Were photographed with zip ties. Were looking to hang Pence from a tree. Ransacked offices. You get the picture.
Trump speaks in code and his followers love him for it. They bought the lie he began setting up well in advance of the election.
He gets impeached, again, this week. Deservedly so.
Elvis Bug
>
“Despite reports in advance of their plans to march there, Capitol Police seemed undermanned and unprepared. “
Why were they unprepared? Could it be that when supporters of Trump have protested there was no mob action and the protests were peaceful? The oddball could be handled by a few police officers. The opposite is not true when Antifa and BLM are in the streets looting and destroying neighborhoods.
Any mob action by anyone is wrong, should be condemned and should be prosecuted.
Same reason the center is unprepared to tackle the QB.
Lol!!
Elvis Bug
I should mention that I coached jr. high basketball for awhile…, some of my guys saw no problem playing d on their own teammates. Ha.
Elvis Bug
Sometimes that’s necessary. In junior high, my wife took the second-half tip and made it to the wrong basket uncontested. She made the layup and never played basketball again.
I wonder if Democrat congresscritters will feel safer in their homes and offices when there dreams of defunding police are realized?
They can ask Portland mayor Wheeler. He was punched in the face by a left wing activist while dining out.
It’s hard to feel bad about that. He held the police back when the street lunatics were doing the same things to other people.
Since Memorial Day??? Hell, this was straight Night Rider/ Charlottesville. Dates back to Jim Crow. American even before apple pie.
Side note: Tucker always looks deviously constipated.
Elvis Bug
100%
To Molly G: SCOTUS declined cert because of standing, NOT frivolity or credibility.
Lack of standing was the specific reason it was frivolous.
MollyG, “Lack of standing was the specific reason it was frivolous.” Nope. This is the fundamental problem with trump supporters and trump himself. You have no idea how the judicial system works. You THINK it’s supposed to rule according to what the public generally believe, what they expect its the truth. In reality the court only rules based on the law and interprets the law’s based on intent of legislature. They have sole power to define what words mean or what laws intend to do based on deep scrutiny of previous rulings and context. This is why courts take so long to issue rulings and why they include so much detail explaining their conclusions.
Lack of standing means they didn’t have any legitimate reason to seek relief based on the lack of evidence. The one thing every trump supporter cannot produce, evidence. Conspiracy theories that have been debunked IN court does not constitute evidence of their claims.
Say you ain’t Turley?
Lots of apCray here.
“We need to hold accountable all those who committed violence in the Capitol.” Including, then, those who did so during the confirmation of Justice Kavanaugh. Including, then, those who firebombed federal buildings in Portland. BLM has been pointing out all year that selective justice is not justice.
The Kavanaugh protesters weren’t violent, and some were arrested when they didn’t leave the building after entering legally.
Over 14,000 people were arrested during the George Floyd protests nationwide.
Anonymous ignores how outmanned the cops were in GF protests. Number of arrests don’t mean anything when there aren’t enough cops, cops are told to stand down, and there are games played by “peaceful” protestors to protect those who are violent.
DV, can you name even a single person who committed violence during the Floyd protests and who has not been sought by law enforcement?
Anon, George Floyd riots not protests. 14,000 arrested and $35,000,000 raised to go their bail. Let me know when convictions are the result. I know you won’t be looking very hard. Kamala Harris: The protests (riots) will and should continue. No outrage of her encouragement to violence to be found in these pages.
I withdraw my previous condemnations of BLM and ANTIFA and now approve of them
Whatever weakens the system of oppression is now deemed good, even if it looks bad
“individuals” that break laws can be held accountable, but it’s unconstitutional to practice “guilt-by-association” of an entire group, to conduct searches of the “individuals” that didn’t break the law. This creates an “incentive” to practice Cointelpro tactics.
The problem is “Cointelpro” style blacklisting is likely happening right now. Cointelpro tactics are not just illegal responses but the 1970’s Frank Church Committee found that federal officials were literally “framing” Americans (fabricating probable cause). Not finding people that actually committed real crimes but fitting crimes to unpopular people. One of the Cointelpro tactics is for police and federal officials to join peaceful protesters and the constitutionally oath-sworn officials themselves start physical violence in order to search and investigate the entire group – no evidence of that in this week’s tragedy but that is a Cointelpro tactic.
Bush Attorney General John Ashcroft and then GOP-controlled Congress created the legal context to create “Cointelpro On Steroids”, which were then against African-Americans and other groups. Today the GOP’s Frankenstein has eaten the GOP.
It might be a good idea to start either indicting or disbarring the Bush DOJ torture attorneys that legalized Cointelpro tactics. This would create a strong deterrent to future DOJ attorneys that may betray their oath of office.
Commit should take it as a compliment that you troll using her name, but she wouldn’t approve of your plagiarizing from The Federalist. I bet Darren will delete your comment because of your plagiarism.
Another JT article that refuses to put any blame for years of lies from Trump.
The free speech is not applicable to the president as manifested by Trump over the past 4 years. His words must be controlled by law, norm and tradition.
I believe that yourself cannot use your online platform to act as him in your professional relationship with your colleagues and students.
Do not bury Trump’s malfeasance or nonfeasance under free speech.
Lawyers like to twist facts and words to get their clients free.
Do you remember when Trump retracted what he said in his disgraceful press conference with Putin by claiming he meant to use double negative.
Trump is guilty of inciting the violence himself or through his people when they talked about civil war and martial law.
You claim that Dems objected to the results of elections 3 times. But you purposefully omit an important ceucial fact that their candidates conceded right away. The most impressive one is Al Gore. I still believe Al Gore won his election.
When you reference leaving out “an important crucial fact” you commit the very crime of which you accuse others. There is no Al Gore in 2000. Whatever his shortcomings, and he had many, Gore had certain core principles and values on display when he conceded the election. That was against the advice of some but it was a choice Gore made for the good of America. Today few if any in his political party hold to those same principles and values. The Democratic Party made it clear before November it would not concede the election to Trump, perhaps no matter what. Whereas in 2000 there was a minority voice in the Democratic Party urging Gore never to concede today that same voice represents the overwhelming majority of his party. If you believe the problems all lie on the Democratic side of the equation you are very wrong. In the past few days there has been a purge of free speech in the United States not seen since the worst days of anti-Communism campaigns and it has derived solely from so-called “progressive” ideology.
Warspite2, There is no purge of free speech or attacks on free speech at all. Turley is a law school professor that claims to be an expert on the constitution. Here’s the problem. The bill of rights are protections for individuals or a collective of individuals from the federal government. They are also a set of protections for a state or states from the federal government. They are restrictions on what the federal government can do.
Trump and his supporters including allies in congress and ;Turley himself claim their free speech is under attack because it is being limited or censored by platforms like twitter, facebook, instagram, etc. That is completely wrong for very simple reasons, Trump and Turley seem to think that these private platforms (twitter. facebook) are obligated to carry their message. They are not. Twitter is not obligated by the bill or rights to carry the president’ messeges at all. They can censor or limit anyone if their policies are violated. Ironically it will be twitter and facebook suing the government for infringing on THEIR freedom of speech because they are not allowing THEM to exercise their own policies. Turlley and trump have it all backwards.
This is not a first amendment issue for Trump. None of these private entities have to platform president trump, NONE. It’s not a thing. That is not a first amendment issue. Twitter and facebook, it is not possible for them to violate a person’s first amendment rights to free speech. They can’t do it. Because the first amendment is a PROTECTION guaranteed to anyone FROM INFRINGEMENT BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, not private companies. They didn’t force anyone to join did they? NO of course not. People willingly joined and willingly AGREED to abide by their rules. You violate them you get censored or banned. That’s it. They are NOT required to observe the first amendment simply because it doesn’t really apply to them.
Trump is trying to distract from the fact that he created a huge mess that HE created and doesn’t want people dwelling on it. So he cries his first amendment rights are being violated by companies that are not obligated in any way to carry his platform. None, at. all.
Notice how turley is strangely silent on the fact that twitter banned trump and numerous officials from their platform, Including many of his supporters. Their rights to free speech are not being violated because in a private platform they don’t have that right to be protected from the company’s decisions. They are still free to speak their minds elsewhere, If they want to create their own platform they are free to do so. Their speech will be as free as it has always been. What they are complaining about is the fact that they can’t grasp the concept that this is not the federal government that is banning them. It’s a private company that is not obligated to carry them at all.
Trump is prosecuting them. You just want an excuse to be worse.