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The Domino Effect: How All Four Cases In The Death of George Floyd Could Collapse With A Chauvin Acquittal

Below is my column in USA Today on the approaching trial of former police officer Derek Chauvin for the alleged murder of George Floyd. Thus far, many in the media have failed to shoulder their own burden to discuss the countervailing evidence in the case.  Indeed, there is a real danger of a cascading failure in the case where a loss in the Chauvin case could bring down the cases against all four officers. This potential domino effect is the result of making the three other cases dependent on the base murder/manslaughter charge against Chauvin.

Here is the column:

The trial of former police officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd is scheduled to begin March 29 after the difficult task of selecting a jury. The difficulty is not in finding a jury that reflects the community but finding one that does not. And it became even more difficult Monday when Minneapolis announced a $27 million settlement in a civil suit brought by Floyd’s family.

One juror had been dismissed by then after he admitted that he feared he or his family would be harmed if Chauvin was acquitted. Another was dismissed after saying property damage during Black Lives Matter protests might have been necessary to achieve justice. Their problem was that they reflected their community all too well.

Judging from the encampment around the courthouse with barbed wire, fencing and security, authorities are aware of the potential for violence. The greatest threat, however, could be found in how the prosecution has structured the case — and the danger of a cascading failure of not just the Chauvin case but of the cases against all four officers.

An unstable and vulnerable strategy

The prosecutors constructed the cases against Chauvin, Alexander Kueng, Thomas Lane and Tou Thao like an upside-down pyramid resting on a conviction of Chauvin. The main charges against Kueng, Land and Thao are as aiders and abettors to Chauvin’s alleged murder or manslaughter. If Chauvin is acquitted or the jury hangs on the charges, the prosecution of the other three officers becomes extremely difficult.

Prosecutors are aware of the instability and vulnerability of that strategy. For that reason, they fought to restore a third-degree murder claim to give the jury another option for a compromise verdict between the second-degree murder claim and the second-degree manslaughter case. In a case that is best suited for a manslaughter claim, there is a risk of overcharging a case that undermines the narrative of the prosecution. The second-degree murder claim does not require intent to murder Floyd but still requires a murder committed in the course of another felony. The third-degree murder charge requires a showing that Chauvin perpetrated “an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.“

There are some very significant challenges for the prosecution, even with the infamous videotape of Chauvin with his knee on Floyd’s neck for more than 9 minutes. There is a palpable fear that even mentioning countervailing defense arguments will trigger claims of racism or insensitivity to police abuse. However, the jury must unanimously convict on the basis of beyond a reasonable doubt after considering a variety of such arguments, including:

164 thoughts on “The Domino Effect: How All Four Cases In The Death of George Floyd Could Collapse With A Chauvin Acquittal”

  1. From my perspective as a lay person, one of the critical issues is whether Chauvin caused measurable damage to Floyd.

    While I believe his actions showed bad judgement and callousness, a murder or manslaughter charge should require an injury that directly led to or hastened Floyd’s death.

    it has been stated Floyd took a lethal overdoes of Fentanyl. Taking Fentanyl at all is playing Russian roulette with your life.

    So did his death occur as a direct result of his overdose, and would it have occurred at the same hour with or without Chauvin’s actions?

    If a man shoots another man, and an autopsy determined he had terminal cancer, it is still homicide. So the question for me is whether it can be proven that Chauvin directly contributed or caused Floyd’s death, irregardless of the fatal overdose.

    Based on the limited evidence that I have seen, it is my opinion that George Floyd experienced a panic attack caused by an overdose of Fentanyl combined with meth. The latter causes paranoia, is cardio- and neurotoxic, and increases heart rate. Meanwhile Fentanyl depresses the respiratory system. As he experienced this overdose, he panicked and thrashed, and refused to get in the police vehicle.

    But from where I’m sitting, Chauvin showed extremely poor judgement. At some point in this encounter, Floyd was handcuffed. Whether or not kneeling on someone’s neck or upper back was part of police training at the time, a reasonable person would not persist in this hold after the suspect was under control. It doesn’t matter if he believed Floyd was telling the truth or just trying to avoid getting arrested. If someone says they can’t breathe you err on the side of caution and get off their neck. He knelt on Floyd for 9 minutes instead of changing to another hold, seeing if he would still resist, trying a different position to see if it helped him breathe, or taking any other action.

    In my opinion, such poor judgement warrants getting fired from the police department. I don’t blame the other 3. They were days on the job and Chauvin was supposed to be handling this as senior officer.

    Criminal charges should rely upon evidence that Chauvin actually caused or hastened Floyd’s death, or if he interfered with or delayed his receiving aid.

    What if no direct injury from Chauvin is proven? There are dueling autopsy reports at the moment.

    So far, the blame for Floyd’s death lies at least partly on himself, as it does many drug addicts. The percentage of Chauvin’s contribution shall be determined at trial.

    I am trying my best to keep an open mind, but the video of Chauvin continuing to kneel on Floyd was disturbing and heart breaking. We’ll have to see how this trial unfolds. Please may it be justice.

    1. Yeah it looks bad. Let’s understand why he was using the hands free neck hold.

      He was afraid the “onlookers” a mob of black people, were going to attack him.

      He was not paying attention to Floyd, he was paying attention to the people yelling at him.

      Sad for Floyd, a big mistake for Chauvin, but probably he had fear in his hear of being jumped.

      He won’t testify, so it probably won’t make it into evidence.

      1. One might think that having 3 fit/trained police officers at your back would mitigate the fear of random crowd attack.

        And: if a police is so fearful in the course of doing proper duty, and doing that duty properly, then perhaps the person is not a proper fit to be a police officer? If one doesn’t have the psychological fitness or training to do the job without killing others (whom one is there to protect and serve) then perhaps it is just not the right job, and one should move to other employment.

        1. Do you always do your job “properly”? The police are human. To hold them a standard that we would never hold ourselves to is ridiculous. The prosecution should have to prove their case. Sadly, given the attitude in Minneapolis, I think it will take a brave jury to give them justice.

      2. ‘Sad for Floyd, a big mistake for Chauvin, but probably he had fear in his hear of being jumped.”
        ***
        I thought the same. He seemed distracted by the crowd. I would have been.

        I think he will testify. He has been painted as a monster. It might be in him to undo some of that impression if he comes across well. Moreover, Floyd was not unknown to him. He might get a chance to go into Floyd’s substantial criminal history to explain how that knowledge informed his own thinking and decisions.

        Floyd was very far from being a good person.

    2. Karen- “From my perspective as a lay person, one of the critical issues is whether Chauvin caused measurable damage to Floyd.”
      ***
      No. With the homicide charges it is only whether he caused his death.

      1. Well, that’s a good point. I’m trying to say that they need to prove that his actions either led to or hastened his death.

        I think Chauvin did wrong, but I think this case is devolving into mob justice, complete with threats against jurors.

        1. Karen, I agree. Months ago I said I didn’t see a clear chain of acts that caused Floyd’s death and that the initial evidence did not support a conviction. That original intuition has evolved into a certainty as more evidence has emerged. I also said I didn’t think he could get a fair trial in that environment. A judge’s instructions to the jury cannot overcome the screams of the mob and possible threats to the jury.

          The city has publicly settled with the Floyd family for an enormous sum and that brands the defendants as guilty even before the jury is seated.

          Then there is the locus of the trial. It looks like FIREBASE FUBAR deep in Indian country which, I suppose, it is.

          I have to admire Chauvin’s lone attorney is this. He should make all attorneys proud of their profession.

          1. “I have to admire Chauvin’s lone attorney is this.”

            Young, as stated earlier we have a modern Atticus Finch.

    3. More of you again? NO DOCTOR EVER SAID FLOYD TOOK A LETHAL OVERDOSE OF FENTANYL. That was Turley’s attempted spin that is not supported by the actual wording of the medical examiner who qualified his opinions: “If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD (overdose). ” IF he were found dead at home and alone, but he wasn’t. “no other apparent causes”–how about a cop kneeling on his neck, even after he stopped breathing? A finding of overdose “could be acceptable” but this conclusion NOT REQUIRED since there is another obvious cause.

      The autopsy report did not conclude that he died of a fentanyl overdone. Now, you’re trying once again to play doctor or nurse by trying to argue that Floyd had a fentanyl-induced panic attack. Floyd said he was claustrophobic. There is no evidence of a panic attack, but you always seem to think you know a lot about medical science, which you do not. There are no “dueling autopsy reports”, either. The government autopsy report merely said he died of cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained. The specific cause of the cardiopulmonary arrest is not stated, and asphyxiation, as found by the expert pathologist hired by the family, is not inconsistent with the official autopsy report.

      Where is the proof that Floyd was an “addict”, or is this another convenient fact you just made up?

      1. Floyd’s death is a tragedy. He deserved to have a chance to turn his life around from being a drug addict and a petty hoodlum. It was just an arrest that went really bad

        But yes, he was an addict and a hoodlum. Here is a footnoted history.

        “Between 1997 and 2005, Floyd served eight jail terms on various minor charges, including drug possession, theft, and trespass.[10][16][14][note 2] In 2007, Floyd faced charges for aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon. According to investigators, Floyd had entered an apartment by impersonating a water department worker and barging in, and he pointed a pistol at a woman.[18][35][36] Floyd was arrested three months later during a traffic stop and victims of the robbery identified him from a photo array.[36] In 2009, he was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal[35][37][38] and was paroled in January 2013.[21] After Floyd’s release, he became more involved with Resurrection Houston, a Christian church and ministry, where he mentored young men and posted anti-violence videos to social media.[11][16][39][40] He delivered meals to senior citizens and volunteered with other projects, such as the Angel By Nature Foundation, a charity founded by rapper Trae tha Truth.[41] Later he became involved with a ministry that brought men from the Third Ward to Minnesota in a church-work program with drug rehabilitation and job placement services.[16]

        In 2014, Floyd moved to Minneapolis to help rebuild his life and find work.[42][43] Soon after his arrival, he completed a 90-day rehabilitation program at the Turning Point program in north Minneapolis. Floyd expressed the need for a job and took up security work at Harbor Light Center, a Salvation Army homeless shelter.[36] He lost the job at Harbor Light and took up several other jobs. Floyd hoped to earn a commercial driver’s license to operate trucks. He passed the required drug test and administrators of the program felt his criminal past did not pose a problem, but he dropped out as his job at a nightclub made it difficult to attend morning classes, and he felt pressure to earn money. Floyd later moved to St. Louis Park and lived with former colleagues.[36] Floyd continued to battle drug addiction and went through periods of use and sobriety.[36]

        In May 2019, Floyd was detained by Minneapolis police when an unlicensed car he was a passenger in was pulled over in a traffic stop. Floyd was found with a bottle of pain pills. Officers handcuffed Floyd and took him to the city’s third police precinct station. Floyd told police he did not sell the pills and that they were related to his own addiction. When Floyd appeared agitated, officers encouraged him to relax and helped calm him down, and they later called an ambulance as they grew worried about his condition. No charges were filed in connection with the incident.[36]”

      2. The wikipedia entry for Floyd says that he had gone through drug rehab and it has footnotes. Quit lying Natacha

      3. Natch- “Where is the proof that Floyd was an “addict”, or is this another convenient fact you just made up?”

        ***
        The judge is going to allow some video and evidence from the previous time Floyd was arrested. He was carrying a lot of drugs and swallowed a lot of them as he was facing arrest. He ended up in the hospital, most likely at taxpayers’ expense. That bed and expense could have gone to someone more deserving.

        If he wasn’t addicted to drugs he was doing a very good job of pretending to be.

    4. I don’t see how it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death. Floyd had lethal amounts of fentanyl in his system, which the coroner says could explain everything that happened. Floyd’s complaints about being unable to breathe began before Chauvin even arrived on the scene. The coroner does not conclude that the restraint constricted Floyd’s windpipe. Nor does he conclude that the restraint blocked the flow of blood through Floyd’s carotid artery, which I understand could have stopped his heart. In his interview with the FBI, as reflected in the 302, the coroner said the stress associated with the struggle prior to being held down may have contributed to his death, but that is not related to what Chauvin did. Unless it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of the entire jury that the restraint caused the death, none of the charges against Chauvin or the others can succeed. Regardless of what you think of Chauvin’s conduct, the uncertainty surrounding the cause of death indicates that the right result under the law is acquittal on all counts. This suggests that charges should have been brought that do not require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the restraint caused the death. I don’t know enough about Minnesota criminal law to say whether there are any such possible charges. From a political standpoint, Ellison probably calculated that so long as he brings murder/manslaughter charges he is insulated from criticism. Either the jury will cave to public pressure and convict or it won’t and he can then say that the system is racist and watch the violence explode knowing that it won’t be targeted at him. Unlike Daniel Cameron in Kentucky, he chose not to apply rigorous legal analysis to the situation to determine whether he could prove all the elements of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt.

      1. Daniel, if the jury is sufficiently intimidated by the press, the public, or the prosecutor, or all three, then they will convict for anything.

        The judge is the only one who is in a position to stop that from happening but we live in an era of information saturation, so it may be impossible.

        In a sealed laboratory, Chauvin’s chances at acquittal are great.

        In reality, they are dubious. For the reason that we all fully understand.

        We know one thing. We know the billionaires want him to hang. You can be sure of that.
        His conviction would advance their interests 3 ways:

        1. to intimidate crackers who need to be scared so that we don’t try and team up on billionaires.

        2. to fool black people into thinking that the powers that be actually care about them, when we know that is false. But they try and conjure the fiction daily.

        3. to intimidate police into doing what the “head table” wants as expressed by all their usual mouthpieces and representatives, law and procedures and common sense be damned.

        We gonna see how strong the “Red Guard” element is in America today in this very trial. The outcome will show how bad it is and how much worse it’s gonna get. Or not. We will see.

        Sal Sar

        1. All twelve jurors would have to ignore the doubt that the facts as we now know them dictate. Maybe that will happen, but it is also possible that one or more jurors will not be intimidated. It is also conceivable, though I think it unlikely, that new facts will be revealed in the course of the trial.

          If the second degree murder charge fails but the third degree murder charge succeeds it is likely that that conviction will be vacated on appeal if the Minnesota Supreme Court overturns the recent appellate decision in the Noor case, which found contrary to a lot of precedent that this offence can arise when the actions are directed only at one specific person. That could be another occasion for rioting.

  2. The police procedure employed by Officer Chauvin was tested, effective, non-lethal and not the cause of death of the hysterical, hostile, criminal suspect.

    The defense must simply conduct a courtroom demonstration of the police procedure, placing a foot (with the same level of exertion exhibited in the video) on the head/neck area of fellow counsel for a period of the same duration as the video, allowing the jury to watch the subject persist, rise and exit the courtroom at the conclusion of the demonstration.

    The criminal suspect’s family, which received a $27 million settlement from the city, should be sued and compelled to recompense the defamed and maliciously prosecuted officer who was in the process of discharging his duties including protecting the public from malefactors and felonious perpetrators.

    2. The family’s compensation is due to a wrongful death. Floyd was in police custody at the time he died and the restraint while not the primary cause of death, could be viewed as a contributing factor. City could have fought it and won, but they could have lost and the jury award would have been greater. This is why you have lawyers like Ben Crump.

      I agree that in front of an impartial jury, Chauvin should be found not guilty. The prosecution will have a difficult case.

      1. While not the primary cause????? In the law you take your victim as you find them. Nothing says depraved indifference to a black man’s life more than applying nearly 100 pounds of pressure to his back and neck for over 9 minutes after he already said he was having trouble breathing. Race, of the defendant and victim, is the only thing that makes this hard to decide. SMH

  3. I am wondering how many go free that shoud not and vice versa due to the idiotic saying ?Two wrongs Make A Right. People like Comey and Clinton are walking because that non sequitur. Two wrongs make two wrongs. Doesn’t matter if one or more are committed by a plaintiff or defendant, Attorney or Judge, NY Times or or a psychiatrist, criminal or police. Politician or Voter. Jury or those who selected the jury. A wrong is a wrong and a right is a right.

    Yet it often seems as if the party in power is pushed to a wrong decision because the party out of power engages in second wrong tactics.

    Comey and Clinton are a classic example as her string of wrongs and his first wrong in trying to act like the AG by -second wrong- falsely interpreting the US Code on Security violations ended up balanced against the times it was used correctly (due to the act) or excused (due to intent which is not an element of the crime)

    Clinton has gotten away with a string of wrong actions just in this one area never mind pay for play and victimizing women and remains a threat to the nation which is to say our Constitutional Republic. In this case Comey used a wrongful interpretation as if he was a SCOTUS Justice.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, both are culpable and so are those that let this slide based on a defense that doesn’t exist. It has not the merit of a Nuremberg Defense much less supposedly educated people. Perhaps that is the way they are turning the crime, the wrong against the true culprits. Those who hired them or voted them into office.

  5. I wish I could share your optimism that justice might apply, but we’re deep into the era of Show Trials. The system and its puppet masters have to much at stake to allow Chauvin to go free. On the other hand, more burning cities this summer presents more Real Estate acquisition opportunities, so we can’t rule aquittal out.

  6. In other news the MSM won’t be talking about:

    It’s fairly obvious that a President with dementia is a national security scandal. Lots of people are going down once they can’t hide it anymore.

    1. ‘It’s fairly obvious that a President with dementia is a national security scandal. Lots of people are going down once they can’t hide it anymore.’ @rubinreport

    3. It’s fairly obvious you are a Fox News, OAN, News Max and Breitbart disciple who believes the lies they feed you. It’s fairly obvious that you are so deeply in a state of delirium over your failed POTUS that you cannot think clearly. It’s fairly obvious that you are likely white, not college educated, and are blind to your fat hero’s constant lying, lack of leadership, his trashing of the economy, mishandling of the pandemic and failure to capture the approval of most Americans. So, you keep repeating the “Joe is senile” mantra fed to you by Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham and the rest. Trump was proven to be a national security risk–in bed with Putin, Russia helped him cheat in 2016, but facts don’t faze you

      1. Oh I don’t know about that, Natacha. Do you have an answer as to why President Biden has not held a State of the Union address? Or a single press conference?

        We know Putin respected President Trump, as did Chairman Xi. Remember when President Trump hosted Chairman Xi at Mar a Lago and served Xi Jinping chocolate cake while launching airstrikes on Syria? But we now have hidin’ slidin’ slippin’ and faillin’ President Joe Biden at the helm. Do our enemies respect or fear President Biden? Oh heck no. They are exploiting his obvious weakness, and throwing it back in our face, as they already have done. Joe Biden is a national security risk, and all of his handlers know it.

        “Media is portraying Anchorage debacle as a fiery exchange b/t senior Biden officials and CCP counterparts. That’s not the takeaway. The takeaway is that Biden admin invited CCP reps here w/o preconditions, from weakness, and had their own leftist agitprop shoved in their face.” @bhweingarten

        1. “Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday mocked his US counterpart Joe Biden, escalating a war of words between the two world leaders. Putin said “it takes one to know one” after Biden, a day earlier, said he thought the Russian leader was a “killer”.

          “In a highly unusual move following Biden’s interview, Russia said it was recalling its ambassador to the United States for urgent consultations over the future of US-Russia ties.

          The Russian embassy in Washington, DC said in a statement that Anatoly Antonov will leave the US on Saturday.

          It added that “certain ill-considered statements of high-ranking US officials have put the already excessively confrontational relations under the threat of collapse”.

        2. Presidents don’t give State of the Union addresses in the first year, and remember the good times when the nation had to bail out the farmers because Trump screwed trade so bad. I bet the Chinese were laughing their asses off. The Chinese knew Trump was a sucker for bad business deals and trade policies. They got richer and we had to bail out the farmers.

          1. Trump confronted China. Trump stood up to China. Trump understood Chinese culture enough to know what *not to do — exactly what Secretary Blinken embarrassingly just did in Alaska with the CCP meeting. Trump attempted to balance trade policies with China. Check that bag of frozen green beans you have in your freezer and see if it says Product of China. Xi respected Trump and knew that if he said he would do something, he did it. China neither fears nor respects Joe Biden. China owns Joe Biden, the corrupt sellout that he is.

            Biden has been in the swamp of Washington DC for nearly 50 years and all world leaders know that Joe Biden has never been the sharpest tool in the shed, and even more alarming now with his obvious decline in mental acuity.

            Now, explain why Grandpa Earpiece has yet to hold a single press conference. We all know why. The world, and our enemies know, too. And no one is laughing about it because there is nothing funny about it.

            1. Secretary Antony Blinken
              @SecBlinken

              United States government official
              Husband, dad, (very) amateur guitarist, and the 71st Secretary of State serving under the leadership of
              @POTUS Biden.

              ——————-
              The above is how our current SoS describes himself for all the world to see. What words stand out when you read this Twitter bio of the Secretary of State on his “official” US government account?

              You know what else was (very) amateurish? HIs handling of the meeting in Alaska with the Chinese delegation.

            2. Trump doesn’t even understand the “culture” of his own family. For example: he coddles White Supremacists, but his daughter is converted to Judaism. Doesn’t he know what it means when his disciples display swasticas and wear “Camp Auschwicz” t-shirts? He doesn’t understand why people don’t respect his 3d wife in view of the fact that she used to pose naked, went to parties as a fashion model to try to land a rich husband, and has only a high school education. Trump didn’t try to “balance” anything with China–he tried to bully the Chinese like he used to try to bully contractors and material suppliers by refusing to pay for goods and services. The result was the worst trade deficit in years, and the tariffs he imposed got passed along as a higher cost of goods. He bears responsibility for attacks on Asians, too, by calling COVID the “China virus”.

              When you try to claim what other “world leaders” think of Biden, you are merely repeating what Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham, Levin and their ilk told you. They don’t know, and neither do you.

              1. “FBI statistics suggest that most anti-Asian violence has come from black perpetrators.” Not “white supremecists.”

              2. China’s rep just said to Biden’s secretary of state that the United States does not have the ‘qualifications’ to address China ‘from a position of strength’…some would translate that as a big, to your face, in your face, FU to the Biden presidency. Does China own Biden? You bet they do and they just showed the world that Joey B is their b*tch. That’s how bad it is for the US with Biden at the helm.

                1. “That’s how bad it is for the US with Biden at the helm.”
                  ***

                  It’s worse. Hard to keep up with everything tumbling down.

        3. A SOTU is not required, and Biden has been busy these 59 days or so in office, cleaning up messes left by Trump, especially getting the vaccine administered before the variants take over and reversing Trump’s “executive orders” on consumer and environmental protections, getting his cabinet appointees approved and making up for Trump’s refusal to allow a reasonable transition so Biden could hit the ground running. Putin thinks Trump is a useful idiot, like most people. He used him for propaganda, especially after Helsinki. Putin is more intelligent than Trump, and was KGB for years. Putin ordered the social media lying campaign that swayed a few districts in a few key battleground states so that Trump could defeat the will of the American people in 2016. How the hell do you know whether America’s “enemies” respect or fear Biden? We know that most people looking at that fat, bloated arrogant liar you adore see that he’s an ignorant narcissist who has failed at most things throughout his life. What has Biden failed at? He already has a higher approval rating than Trump was ever able to get in 4 years’ time.

          But, as usual, you fall hook, line and sinker for the lies they spout on Fox.

          1. Actually, Putin just mocked President Biden on the world stage. “Hey Joe,” he said, “come and debate me.” Hahaha. Putin is saying that we all know you won’t even face the “friendly” press corps that only tosses you softballs, hahahaha. Would you call that “respect” for Biden? Yeah, no. No one would.

            China just mocked President Biden’s foreign policy team, to their faces, on US soil, in front of the world. The delegations had agreed to open with two minutes each. China’s rep ranted and aggressively insulted the US for nearly 20 minutes saying to Biden’s secretary of state: “you do not come from a position of strength.” That’s down right humiliating. That’s not what anyone in their right mind would call a sign of respect. And the worst part? Joe Biden’s secretary of state sat there and politely took it. It’s very dangerous for the country to be viewed as this weak and feckless by our enemies and even our allies.

            “What has Biden failed at?” I dunno where to begin, the list is long after 50 years doing nothing but being a professional corrupt politician sellout, but let’s go wtih this one….his first presidential campaign imploded when it was obvious that he was a serial plagiarizer who could not stop lying and was forced to drop out of the race. That’s a start. Oh and I’ll give you three words that most people find unbelievable: 80 million votes. Nope.

            Oh and, thank God for Fox News.

          2. “He already has a higher approval rating than Trump was ever able to get in 4 years’ time.”

            It’s not hard to do when you have the Fake News media running cover for you 24/7.

          3. Natacha – this is a good song for ol’ Joe to play while he’s busy cleaning up things. It’s got good lyrics and a catchy tune. Enjoy!

      2. Natacha is white but she hates other white people. She makes fun of white people here regularly. She despises white people who were not fortunate enough to go to college, also.

        This is typical for many in leadership positions in the Democrat party. She’s not in any position, but she admires them and so she apes their attitudes.

      3. Natch: “you keep repeating the “Joe is senile” mantra fed to you by Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham and the rest.”

        ***
        You likely have a job to do, but I think before midsummer it will embarrass you to keep it up. Joe is sinking fast and the whole world sees it.

        What I wonder is which coup members are really running the country.

  7. Turley, Turley, Turley: what do they pay you to spin the facts? You claim that the autopsy report did not find asphyxiation, but it DID NOT RULE IT OUT: “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).” This official finding does not address the mechanism by which Floyd’s heart and lungs stopped. You say that “the state’s criminal complaint against Chauvin said the autopsy “revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.” He also was COVID-19 positive.”

    OK, did Floyd die due to COVID? Uh, no,so why mention this? Did he die of coronary artery disease or hypertension? Uh, no, he didn’t have a complete blockage of his coronary arteries or damage to his heart muscle either. Are “physical findings” necessary to prove that pressure to the neck can cause the heart to stop? Uh, no: pressure to the carotid sinus located in the neck can cause cardiac arrest, especially sustained pressure. We know he had pressure to his neck because we saw it on video. Chauvin wouldn’t even release Floyd after he stopped breathing and had no pulse. Chauvin is a monster–who does this? The rest of Turley’s comments are intended to mislead the deplorables into believing that Chauvin didn’t kill Floyd. Turley’s spin on the facts won’t work.

    Turley also mentions: “Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s chief medical examiner, strongly suggested that the primary cause was a huge amount of fentanyl in Floyd’s system: “Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml — this is higher than (a) chronic pain patient. If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD (overdose). Deaths have been certified w/levels of 3.”

    Baker “strongly suggested” no such thing. Read the actual wording: “found dead at home alone & NO OTHER APPARENT CAUSES, this COULD BE ACCEPTABLE to call an OD…” THERE WERE OTHER OBVIOUS CAUSES, and even Baker said that it merely COULD BE ACCEPTABLE, which is hedging and speculating. Baker did NOT say Floyd died of an overdose, and neither did the autopsy report, but, more importantly, COULD NOT SAY such a thing given the video. To put these words in his mouth is disingenuous of you, Turley, as is using your legal credentials to spin unsupported facts on a high-profile case.

    Now Turley’s trying to spin Floyd’s complaints of feeling like he couldn’t breathe into “proof” of an overdose. But, of course, Turley ignores the plain truth that Floyd complained of claustrophobia from being placed into the back seat of a car while handcuffed with the doors locked. The cops offered to roll down the windows or turn on the air conditioner. Floyd was a large man, and it’s not unreasonable to believe that he could feel claustrophobic in the small space of a back seat while shackled.

    Turley: you aren’t a physician, and you don’t even play one on television. I’d like to know who pays you to spin the facts.

    1. “We know he had pressure to his neck because we saw it on video.” You saw this on video? Did you “see” how much pressure (lbs/sq in) Chauvin put on Floyd? Have you ever tried to stop an arterial wound with a tourniquet? I think not otherwise you would know the pressure to cut off both carotid arteries would leave physical evidence.

      FOUR times the lower end of a lethal dose of fentanyl (stops breathing) combined with a respiratory disease that drowns its victims in their own fluids but according to you ….”nooooo – that’s not a factor!””.

      “No other apparent causes”. What evidence is there that there WERE other causes – no evidence of suffocation due to mechanical asphyxiation so WHAT evidence are you referring to? The evidence you BELIEVE exists somewhere in the factual ether?

      1. I didn’t say that Floyd’s carotid arteries were “cut off”–I said pressure was applied to a nerve bundle in the neck called the “carotid sinus”. The carotid sinus regulates the heart and blood pressure, and massaging this nerve bundle is used sometimes as an emergency measure to treat excessively rapid heartbeats and high blood pressure. Even an excessively-tight collar can cause enough pressure on this area to make someone pass out. Why do you think they loosen someone’s collar when they pass out?

        Why don’t you use your Google Machine to look up the carotid sinus and the effect of pressure on it?

        1. I’ve been choked out and choked others out. Mostly on the mat but out there too. A choke that only restricts half the neck is called a crank. It’s not a choke and it doesn’t restrict much blood for and certainly not air if it’s on the side of the neck.

          This Natacha lady has an agenda, and she talks like she’s a doctor but she doesn’t know much about the subject, obviously.

          I hope the accused officers all get fair trials!.

    2. Natacha, Turley’s MO has and will be divert and detract from anything that would have him lose his “Trump Base” Turley these days only writes for the intellectually and morally bankrupt cult.

      1. “his “Trump Base”

        Did you vote for Trump?

        I’m asking because you’re always here.

    3. Didn’t rule out death by tuberculosis either. Things NOT ruled out mean nothing.

      1. “Things NOT ruled out mean nothing.”

        ***
        Good point. I don’t think the autopsy expressly ruled out that he hanged himself either.

    4. “Floyd was a large man, and it’s not unreasonable to believe that he could feel claustrophobic in the small space of a back seat while shackled.”

      Floyd should have considered his “alleged” claustrophobia before he started trying to pass counterfeit bills, Natacha.

      Does the word “responsibility” mean anything to you? Or does that concept only apply to Caucasian cops?

      1. Was it ever proven that “he started trying to pass counterfeit bills”? Nope. This was merely ALLEGED. How do you know that he’s responsible for the “counterfeit bills”? Maybe someone passed them to him first. Counterfeit money turns up all of the time.

        1. All the time huh? Family has a cash business. In the past two years we only got one fake $20

          And it was passed by a black man. Coincidence?

          Floyd didn’t deserve to die for it, but quit pretending he was an angel!

        2. Natch– “I think Floyd was also aggressive and threatening to the clerk who told him the bill was counterfeit. I think it was his threatening behavior that led to calling the police more than the counterfeit bill.

          George Floyd apparently was not a very nice person.

          I would like to hear the recording of the original 911 call that led to Floyd’s arrest. Assuming, of course, that the AG hasn’t lost it. There has been surprisingly little media interest in it, maybe because it doesn’t support their preferred narrative.

          1. Just a thought, if Floyd tried to compel the clerk to accept the bill after being told it was phony, then it isn’t just passing bad money; it is a form of strong arm robbery.

          2. The Daily Mail had something on the original incident. A lot of confusion because the clerk’s English was limited. Floyd was clearly intoxicated with something and refused to return cigarettes when told his money was bad. Also a violation if he was in the driver’s seat of the van, physical control of a vehicle while intoxicated.

  8. Pingback: The Domino Effect: How All Four Cases In The Death of George Floyd Could Collapse With A Chauvin Acquittal | Dawson County Journal

  9. Floyd had been bouncing in and out of Jail & Prisons in various States starting at 14 years of age. He did his first prison stretch at 15. All together, he has been in prison in Texas Minnesota, Iowa, California, Nebraska, and Illinois, 3 times. He has spent more of his useless piece of scum life behind bars.

    Also he had been a consistent, heavily consistent probation the two times he was on it and parole violator. 3 times he was on parole out of all the times he had been on parole, he violated right out of prison by not even showing up the first time for Christ sakes. It’s called, “1st contact parole visit.”

    This, is when you show up to meet your parole officer and he or she meets you, and they layout the requirements they want for you to follow. He never had any intentions of straightening his life up and living correctly. He had spent his entire life being an emotional con artist and praying upon women for places to live and for money. Like so many of your, “garden variety”, useless “scum black males” do.

    Btw, anybody can get his rap sheet online like I did if you’re willing to pay for it. And it’s not expensive. I pay a background check service a $149,95 a year. To run background checks on property rentals for my family. Pertaining to “rental investment property we have down in Florida in various locales.

    1. None of this has any relevance to Chauvin’s killing of Floyd. Why would you think it would?

        1. And, people like you wonder why there are riots in the streets of this country.

  10. “That will be up to the jury. But if there is violence after the verdict, it will be far worse if the public is not aware upfront of the serious challenges in proving this case.”
    ******************************
    Like violence is ever appropriate after a valid jury verdict. My guess is the rioters won’t give a damn about the facts. They haven’t so far even they even bothered to find them out. This isn’t about Floyd; it’s about control for some and “gettin’ mine” for all of the others.

    The jury gets all the evidence not just what the Leftist Mafia Media would have you believe. If they riot, the scum should be arrested, detained and tried.

    1. Mespo. I remember how white people rioted, looted and burned cities down after OJ was acquitted by what appeared to be jury nullification seasoned with prosecutorial incompetence.

  11. I think not guilty but reserve judgement as the reason behind the 9 minutes is unclear. No matter the verdict, I don’t think this is either murder or manslaughter. There is always a threat to the police officer. The ambulance was on its way. Should Chauvin have exposed the police and others to the potential of additional violence by appearing preoccupied. What would have happened if he removed his knee 2-3 minutes earlier and they decided to start CPR? Would violence have broken out?

    Chauvin had 2-3minutes to think all this out while we have been debating this for months. Can one blame Chauvin for going by the book and following his training? I don’t think so unless one can prove Chauvin had other motives. In any case, I agree with the essentials of the forensic pathologist, Floyd was a dead man whether or not the knee was removed 2-3 minutes earlier.

    1. At the very minimum Chauvin can be guilty of criminal negligence. Willful disregard for human life applies as well. The excuse that the officer would have been exposed to potential violence is pure BS. Chauvin had three other officers with him to maintain control of the crowd. Taylor was already handcuffed and on his stomach. You can’t inflict any serious “violence” from that position and no training or procedure requires leaving one’s knee on a suspect for nearly nine minutes of while pleading he can’t breathe. The fact that his pleas were being deliberately ignored and the resulting death can be attributed to an attitude of indifference which in court can be used as proof of intentional neglect.

      When his own fellow officers called out to check his pulse after multiple people have been telling him to check it clearly falls under manslaughter. The very fact that nobody can justify or rationalize why he needed do keep his knee on his neck that long is the biggest obstacle for acquittal. Taylor stopped breathing two minutes before chauvin finally took his knee off. Two minutes is a long time.

      The drugs were n his system are not the cause accord to the forensic report. Taylor’s poor health contributed to the reason why he died, but it isn’t the primary cause. There’s are a lot of people trying to make excuses for the officer “just doing his job” which I find ironic here because the very same people making that excuse are calling for murder charges for another officer “doing its job” during the Capitol insurrectionist riots who killed a woman, doing his job.

      If it’s that easy to call for murder charges it should be just as easy for Chauvin to called on murder charges.

      1. “At the very minimum Chauvin can be guilty of criminal negligence. “

        Svelaz, that is not the best statement one can make but it certainly sounds like it came from you. The minimum is Chauvin is found innocent.

        I am not going to bother with the rest of your statement. It isn’t worth it.

        I was going to press send but saw a ridiculous statement: “The drugs were n his system are not the cause accord to the forensic report. “

        Take another look at the autopsy report and what Baker said.

      2. Svelaz–“At the very minimum Chauvin can be guilty of criminal negligence”

        ***
        Like Cuomo?

    2. Uh, the “forensic pathologist” did NOT say Floyd was a dead man regardless of whether the knee was removed. This guy was the Medical Examiner, and doesn’t use the title of “forensic pathologist”. Turley must be getting paid a lot of money to play little games with the facts here. The QUALIFIED comment was: “Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml — this is higher than (a) chronic pain patient. If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD (overdose). Deaths have been certified w/levels of 3.” THERE ARE OTHER APPARENT CAUSES–Chauvin’s knee to the neck. Pressure on the neck can stop the heart by stimulating the carotid sinus. And this is without external signs of trauma. Also, as Turley knows, blood fentanyl levels are 9Xs those of pre-death levels. That is why the cause of death was NOT drug overdose.

      Another big fib perpetrated by Turley is to claim that the autopsy did not conclude there was asphyxiation. THE AUTOPSY REPORT DID NOT, AND COULD NOT RULE THIS OUT, so Turley is perpetrating falsehoods by implying otherwise.

      You are speculating about violence. Floyd complained of claustrophobia, which is why he was having trouble breathing. Chauvin wouldn’t release him even after he stopped breathing–what is the innocuous excuse for this? Chauvin’s conduct is inexcusable, just as your speculation about what was and wasn’t said. But, being a Trumpster and disciple of Fox News, you believe the lies that are fed to you, especially in the context of a black v. white dispute.

      1. Natacha, my statement was two different sentences. If you read what the pathologists report said and what he said afterwards the second sentence, which is my conclusions, is a very proper opinion.

        ” In any case, I agree with the essentials of the forensic pathologist, Floyd was a dead man whether or not the knee was removed 2-3 minutes earlier.”

        As usual I left the rest of you statement unread. Most of it is likely very erroneous. If you think I am missing something you can present it again with one or two sentences. Dealing with the erroneous type of hit and runs you provide isn’t worth anyone’s time.

  12. After watching the complete bodycam footage from 2 of the officers, seen here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJTF-bb1jc&bpctr=1599322241

    combined with the autopsy report showing that Floyd had heart disease and a normally fatal dose of fentanyl in his system, I don’t see how officer Chauvin could be convicted of anything other than doing his job.

    At the point where the officers restrained Floyd on the ground, they had already called for an ambulance. Floyd, at that point had been struggling and flailing – clearly panicked. Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck appears to have been intended to restrain Floyd from pounding his head against the pavement.

    But hey, what does reality have to do with anything?

  13. If it weren’t for the vast acceptance of mob violence and rioting, the verdict would be the last word. People today do not realize how much lack of self-discipline and riots cost us all.

  15. Two bystanders, one of whom is a firefighter, asked the police to check Floyd’s pulse. The police waited, and then when one of them finally checked, Floyd had no pulse, and the police made no attempt to administer CPR.

    1. Would you give CPR to a known narcotics addict? I wouldn’t. Not without a mouth shield at least. Not because I don’t like them, but because, you get that fentanyl stuff in your body, even though skin absorption, it can kill you if you don’t have a tolerance like some of these hypes. I’d be afraid they would puke up some swallowed narcotic into my mouth and then I would be dead too. No way. Sorry

  16. These replys are correct in that it is obvious that the trial should be moved. Given the fentanyl, the ‘I cant breath’ screams before he was touched and the fact that the knee restraint is in the handbook, its remarkable that there is a prosecution at all and to have it in the midst of total chaos is absurd. It would seem that all the defense needs to do is show the toxicolgy report , show the entire video, and the picture of the knee restraint from the handbook and any reasonable jury would not only have reasonable doubt but also support probable innocence. But its clear that the jury is going to be pressured by fear if the trial is not moved.

    1. It never ceases to amaze me not only how gullible people like you can be, but that you are willing to proudly display it on blogs like this one. “Given the fentanyl”… you fell for Turley’s spin on what he claims are the “facts”. The autopsy report did NOT conclude that fentanyl killed Floyd, and could not, because post-death lab values are 9Xs those of living people, so they aren’t accurate, and fentanyl is not listed as the cause of death, either. The medical examiner said that ‘WITH NO OTHER APPARENT CAUSES” it COULD BE “acceptable” to conclude overdose. Well, there is a proven “other apparent cause”–Chauvin’s kneeling on his neck even after he had no pulse. His underlying heart disease, hypertension, sickle cell trait and COVID positive status did not kill him. Chauvin did.

      People like you think you are “reasonable”, but you aren’t–you are gullible–if anyone gets the benefit of doubt, it’ll be the cops every time. This is what it means to be prejudiced. You are more than willing to buy whatever flaky excuse the cops come up with for killing black people, which is why there are so many protests in this country, some of which are violent.

      1. “Killing black people”…..yep, and human-rights-abusing CCP/China just threw that utter lie right back in the US diplomats’ faces in the embarassing Alaska summit. Well done Joe Biden. Not.

  17. Never let facts get in the way of mob justice. No one wins no matter the verdict.

  18. It’s doubtful that an impartial jury could be found in that area. And it’s a no-win for the community at large based on the Rodney King effect.

  19. This case is really a Political and Social Witch Hunt. The AG is a Radical Left Political Actor- he will do anything to get a conviction, anything. He knows he has a weak case. BLM, Radical Left, Activists are driving this case. The Judge needs to move the case to some where else where there can be a fair trial, perhaps upstate Minn. where a community is reasonable but what ever they decide or where ever they move it, the Radical Left, BLM, Activist, MSM will be there to cause extreme outside pressure.

      1. A horrible mistake and the community will pay for this idiocy from the judge.

  20. Show me a close-up video of the knee actually pressing down on the jugular of the neck. I think he was touching the bone area

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