Dr. Leana Wen, CNN analyst and Distinguished Fellow at the Fitzhugh Mullan Institute of Health Workforce Equity at George Washington University, has caused a stir due to her recent declaration on CNN that “it needs to be hard for people to remain unvaccinated.” With France implementing a mandatory “health pass” and private companies like Morgan Stanley requiring vaccinations for employees to return to work, we can expect more protests and challenges around the world. Those cases are likely to focus on whether mandatory requirements are based on medical or political imperatives. Wen’s comment is likely to be repeated in many filings as another case of “saying the quiet part out loud.” She appears to advocate measures defined to coerce people to take vaccinations due to the continuing refusal of a sizable number of people.
Wen is a well-known medical analyst and the former head of Planned Parenthood. She is a visiting professor at George Washington University.
Wen made clear that health measures should be used to make life hard for people who refuse the vaccine so that they yield to public demands: “[b]asically, we need to make getting vaccinated the easy choice.” In the Washington Post, Wen also called for “Biden to make the case for vaccine requirements.”
There is already open pressure from the White House on private companies to require vaccinations. Morgan Stanley responded by doing just that this week. They can likely do so. The most serious challenges could come from those with religious objections. However, even if they are allowed to work remotely, Morgan Stanley CEO James Gorman stated in July that “If you want to get paid New York rates, you work in New York. None of this, ‘I’m in Colorado…and getting paid like I’m sitting in New York City. Sorry, that doesn’t work.” The message could not be clearer that working remotely will come at a penalty.
The Biden White House is clearly concerned that making vaccines mandatory will cause not just court challenges but a public backlash. However, such mandatory programs have been upheld. As I discussed in a column last year, there is a 1905 case where the Supreme Court upheld a state mandatory vaccination program of school children for small pox in Massachusetts. In Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905), the Court found that such programs are the quintessential state power rather than a federal power. It also held that “every well-ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.” States are allowed to subject citizens to restraints to protect “general comfort, health, and prosperity of the State.”
The fear is that, as with social media companies carrying out censorship of political and social viewpoints, companies will now serve as surrogates for the state on vaccinations. The Administration would prefer to do precisely what Wen advocated: ratchet up the private penalties and difficulties for anyone who wants to remain unvaccinated.
The problem is when you have leading analysts arguing for such measures as coercive devices. While there is considerable deference on such matters, the courts could take note of such demands to make life hard on those who are not “getting with the program.”
As of July 11, a total of 159,266,536 Americans have been fully vaccinated. That is 48 percent of the country’s population. When you consider the extremely high rate of vaccination for those over 65, the percentage of adults under 65 is even smaller. Despite all of the press and bizarre reward systems, the government is clearly hitting a wall with many people declining the vaccines. (For the record, I took the vaccine and all of my family has been vaccinated).
That is a sizable number of voters and the Democrats are leery of openly forcing vaccines before the 2022 election. That is why the push is to make life more difficult through private companies. However, if these measures are viewed as designed to coerce, courts may be more scrutinizing of the public health necessity for the measures.
355 thoughts on ““It Needs To Be Hard For People To Remain Unvaccinated”: Making The Case For Covid Challenges”
University Caves On Vaccine Lawsuit But Questions Remain
– August 24, 2021
This is a good article about a couple of legal Covid challenges. One is the George Mason University attempt to make a professor accept the vaccine shot even though he claimed it was unnecessary because he had already had the Covid infection. GMU capitulated before trial and granted the medical exemption so the professor doesn’t have to get a shot but everyone else does, even if they also claim that the had a prior infection.
A suit has also been filed against Rutgers Sate University of NJ that is Covid related:
just try and make us [all].
[all] you fascist police state and s. s. gestapo govt.
we [all] dare you.
l. o. l.
How does Biden think he can get all those illegals coming accross the border with covid to ever get vaccination, he’s is an idiot, just the illegals will make covid perpetual!
For Natch or Anyone Else on Origin of Virus:
I previously linked to Nicholas Wade’s article on the origin of the Covid/Wuhan virus but there is also a very good article in a reliably left-leaning publication, New York Magazine, that covers similar ground.
The virus almost certainly escaped from the Wuhan lab.
Absolute proof is hard to obtain, especially when China is hiding everything it can and the media/government is not being honest. Add to that the cancel culture and information transfers become nearly impossible.
That being said, the number one theory is the Wuhan Lab leak. No other theory even comes close to the evidence accumulated involving the Wuhan Lab. The next best theories with much less evidence arise from China as well.
Natacha and others are ideologues. Proof, evidence, thinking, etc., never enter their minds. They only spout what they most recently have seen from the left-wing talking sites. They can be considered brain dead when it comes to anything that touches on politics.
Natacha recently indicated that she had an advanced degree in nursing, yet her responses involving medical issues demonstrate a total lack of medical knowledge. Maybe she studied nursing when young, and too many decades have passed while her brain was inundated with leftist propaganda. It is hard to believe people have so little knowledge about virtually everything touching on politics.
S. Meyer– Some posters remind me of those customer support folks in India. You can tell them you did A and they will say they are sorry about your problem and ask if you tried doing A. You are talking to a screen reader who isn’t really listening to much of what you are saying. Same here. No matter what you say or quote or link to you get a response that repeats the formula of the day and shows no sign of independent thought.
Why did we shut down the economy, diligently wear masks, and avoid public gatherings if Biden was just going to reverse Trump’s immigration policy, and throw open the border to masses of unvaccinated illegal immigrants, often sick with Covid-19? And if they weren’t sick, their stay at ICE facilities would help ensure they would be, before turning them loose to mix with the rest of the US.
Nearly 1 million illegal aliens have crossed our border in less than a year. Those who want to claim asylum are no longer being asked to stay in safe third countries. No, that’s for conservative Cubans who would vote Republican once they become legal. They are allowed to stay here while their asylum claims are processed. Most of these claims do not satisfy the international requirements for asylum. Even so, if and when the courts finally get to their case, and rule against them, the same people for open borders will claim that they should still be allowed to stay, because they’ve had time to get established. So far, I can’t find a group the Left would agree to deport.
On Joe Biden legalizing over 10 million illegal immigrants:
That seems smart. Let in a million illegal aliens during a global pandemic, while shutting down our economy. Mask and don’t visit with your parents, while we let in vast crowds of people.
Before even considering legalizing illegal aliens, we need to stop illegal immigration. When people believe that it’s impossible to get here illegally, and impossible to work here as an illegal alien, then, and only then, they will go through the legal immigration system. Then, and only then, they will stop entrusting their precious children to vicious drug cartels, because those kids are a ticket to skip the long legal immigration process. Then we’ll stop finding dead children drowned in the Rio Grande or dumped in the desert, because drug cartels make bad babysitters. We have to stop the deluge before we can come to a compassionate solution for those who were brought here as children by parents who chose to skip the line.
It seems to be a Democrat scheme to get rich or richer through corruption and influence peddling. Has anyone bought a Hunter Biden picture for $500,000?
Nancy and Paul Pelosi Making Millions in Stock Trades in Companies She Actively Regulates
I don’t know if this is a plausible scenario. Perhaps someone here can say. But it sounds like a possible risk even if exaggerated in its consequences. These are questions that should be answered before beginning mass vaccination of low risk people.
Young, you are exactly right. I don’t have the slightest idea of the long-term effects of this vaccine. Neither do the scientists. That is why it is still experimental.
What we do know are the numbers. This virus kills the elderly and the sick. Therefore, when one tosses the dice, which is what we are doing, we trade the potential of having years taken off of our life span vs. the same or dying from Covid.
When one considers the odds, one recognizes that longevity of years is not in the cards for those already old or sick, so the numbers in my mind stack up so that I think the elderly and ill should get the vaccine.
We have an ever-decreasing number of fatal events as the age falls, and for women, we have another consideration, future pregnancy.
Our government has not been open to diverse opinions, which makes me very suspicious of their management of Covid. The leaders are compromised by years of working within a bureaucracy where politics trumps ability. We see that with Fauci. I don’t care about his politics, but he is not at an age where one adapts well to change or new ideas. He should not have been a leader based on that alone. (I am not even mentioning his potential for corruption and bribery.)
Despite having diverse opinions on the subject from powerful minds, we have little insignificant and uneducated goofballs like the Marxist ATS running around the country not discussing essential questions instead of trying to prevent the questions from ever being asked. Some of the goofballs even have degrees, and many goofballs concentrate within academia.
Hopefully, all will be well with this vaccine, but if not, the nation and its future will be in significant danger.
Allan’s online course, as well as personal consultation services, in non-critical thinking will be on the market soon!!!
We have you on the market for years, 24/7 along with others like you, Anonymous the Stupid.
The only course I teach is how to handle a singular Stupid Marxist known as ATS. Everyone should recognize what a contemptible person you are and use your mindless brain as a scarecrow to scare others straight, so they don’t fall into the pit of ignorance that you reside in.
All Critical Race Terrorist ” yeah that’s right terrorist should be deported or worse!
S. Meyer said: “We have an ever-decreasing number of fatal events as the age falls, and for women, we have another consideration, future pregnancy.”
Well thought and succinctly said.. The possible risks associated with the vaccine should give pause to anyone thinking of giving it to those who are known with near certainty to be at low risk of serious complications from the actual disease.
The vaccine exchanges a known low risk for a cluster of high risks of unknown dimensions.
The assessment is, as you have said before, different for those who face greater dangers from the disease.
The assessment would change again once the vaccine ceased to be experimental and a body of actual field data and research could inform decisions to either take it or avoid it.
I asked a physician to comment on the article I linked above and the response I got was that nobody knows yet but the mechanism of injury described sounds at least plausible. More mystery and uncertainty.
The scientific uncertainty because of lack of data combined with reports of cardiac problems and menstrual problems in young people getting the vaccine should make any young person, or any woman planning to have a child, consider carefully before getting the vaccine.
China has handed every one of us the dice. How we throw them is up to us, each of us, individually. On this one you are on your own.
Your mentality is amazing: maybe that’s why you are a Trump disciple. You have the ability to make the facts fit your preconceived conclusion. On the one hand, you don’t believe the scientists who report that after millions of doses having been administered worldwide for months now, which dramatically brought down the deaths and serious illnesses from COVID, that the vaccine is both safe and effective. You call this “scientific uncertainty”. On the other hand, you believe with “near certainty” that some people are at low risk from COVID complications, so they shouldn’t receive the injection. But, do you know, and can you recite the relative risk of getting the Delta variant, and the long-term effects of getting the infection? No, you can’t. There is a phenomenon known as “long-term” COVID, in which victims have disabling fatigue, organ damage, brain fog and other problems that persist for months, and many of these people are young. Today, there are children in Missouri in ICU and on ventilators due to COVID. Some have died. Missouri hospitals are at full capacity, and rural communities, which don’t have hospitals, keep trying to send COVID victims to larger city hospitals, which lack the resources to take care of them. There is an urgent call for other states to send Missouri physicians, nurses, respiratory therapists and ventilators. That’s what the stupidity of the alt-right has done just in Missouri, which has among the lowest vaccination rates in the country. Many there will die unnecessarily. The Delta variant is far more virulent than other strains, and is or soon will be, the dominant variant in the US. If Delta mutates to a new variant, that variant might not be susceptible to vaccination. Then, we’ll be right back where we were when the pandemic started.
You also blame China for the virus, even claiming that they sent it to the US purposely. There is NO reliable evidence of a lab leak, much less that COVID was developed as a biological weapon. If it were, why did the Chinese allow their own citizens to get infected, and why did they disclose the virus to the WHO? If this was intentional, they would never have allowed the information to get out and more Americans would be dead.
You end with the notion that people should decide for themselves about vaccination, which implies that people have the same knowledge of the risks and benefits of vaccination as physicians and public health officials. That’s not true, and the alt-right media are spreading lies that are re-spread via social media, with the result that there is widespread fear of vaccination. Those fears are unfounded, but distrust of science and of the government is the lasting legacy of that orange monster you worship. If the Delta variant of COVID keeps spreading, then there will be even more deaths Trump has caused. If COVID gets out of control, the economy will crash again. That’s not speculative, either.
Nobody made this political until you did. Shows exactly how brainwashed liberals are! Go away little man.
Why do you think that alt-right media keep spreading the message that people should question or even fear the vaccine and that the CDC is lying about the dangers of the vaccine after your hero took credit for “operation warp speed”? Didn’t your hero tell you that the vaccine would end COVID very soon? Why would alt-right media and Republicans attack the CDC and Dr. Fauci? Because Joe Biden has already done such a good job and his approval ratings are in the low to mid 60’s, something Trump could never accomplish in 4 years’ time. Republicans are doing everything possible to scuttle Biden’s success, including refusing to vote in favor of the COVID relief payments, even though they are trying to take credit for it because their constituents overwhelmingly favor it. They won’t cooperate on infrastructure discussions, even though most Americans, including in red states, support infrastructure improvements. They keep trying to repeal Obamacare, even though most Americans, even in red states, support it, and Republicans still have no replacement plan. That’s why vaccination has become politicized: to prevent Biden from succeeding in conquering the disease. Instead, the Republicans keep pushing for “individual rights” and lies about masks being dangerous. They downplay the insurrection, too.
What Republicans don’t care about is the number of people who will die unnecessarily. The Delta variant is becoming dominant and it is more aggressive than prior iterations of COVID. If the Delta variant mutates to a resistant form, we’ll be right back where we were when the pandemic started, and the economy will crash. But, hey, you’ll still have your “rights”/
Natch– You managed to roll a lot into your comment, but I want to address first your claim: “You also blame China for the virus, even claiming that they sent it to the US purposely. There is NO reliable evidence of a lab leak, much less that COVID was developed as a biological weapon.”
I think, Natch, that even Biden knows now that the virus came from China. You are behind on your information.
The evidence of a lab leak does exist, although we cannot expect all of the evidence because China, and Big Tech, are blocking much of it.
However, there is more than sufficient evidence for a court proceeding.
The criminal standard is ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ which is the strongest unless you are Officer Chauvin in which case no evidence is needed, just a few timely tears, a giant civil settlement, and a handy mob.
The usual civil standard is ‘preponderance of the evidence’, sometimes described as ‘more likely than not’ or ‘51%’.
Circumstantial evidence, evidence based on the circumstances at the time, is sufficient for both a civil judgment [preponderance of the evidence] and a criminal conviction [beyond a reasonable doubt].
The circumstantial evidence supporting a lab leak is now so strong that I believe a civil case would easily be won and, very likely, a criminal case.
I have referred you before to Nicholas Wade’s superb analysis, ‘Origin of Covid’ that is largely responsible for turning the entire conversation in the media. You can read it here:
You won’t read it because I have given you the link before and you obviously didn’t read it then, but here are some of the salient facts:
1. This exact virus was being studied in the Wuhan lab.
2. No natural source for this virus has ever been found.
3. The initial eruption of the disease was in the city where the lab is operating.
4. Dangerous viral escapes are not unheard of. Wade says this:
Smallpox escaped 3 times from labs in England in 60s and 70s causing 80 cases and 3 deaths. Dangerous viruses have leaked out of labs almost every year since. The SARS1 virus has leaked from labs in Singapore, Taiwan, and 4 times from the national lab in Beijing.
It is not only not impossible for viruses to leak from high-end labs, it seems to happen a lot.
5. There are four levels of containment, BSL1 thru BSL4. A virus as dangerous as Covid probably shouldn’t be handled at all, but if it is it should be at the highest level, BSL-4. In fact, records and eyewitness reports show that the Wuhan lab was sometimes using only BSL-2, about the level of your dentist’s office, which is reckless almost beyond belief.
There are other factors but this can be simplified:
When a dangerous virus appears in a town where the virus is being manipulated at a safety level two steps down from the required containment level and no alternative source for the virus can be found, one has sufficient circumstantial evidence for a jury to decide that the burden of proof has been met, easily, in a civil case, and quite possibly in a criminal case.
Actually, this is almost a nice example of res ipsa loquitur. Fun to legitimately use the title of this blog.
As for your strawmen rants, I never said it was intended to be a biological weapon and I never said China deliberately sent it to the United States. However, and this is another issue, China was grossly negligent in allowing flights from Wuhan to the rest of the world when they were already trying to combat a vicious virus that they probably hoped not to be blamed for.
Thank you for saying that my “mentality is amazing”. One doesn’t usually get complements from you.
“Missouri hospitals are at full capacity . . .”
I gather you don’t know the demographics of St. Louis or Kansas City.
“The Delta variant is far more virulent . . .”
You sure you have a medical background?
“Virulence is “the capacity of any infective organism to cause disease and to injure or kill a susceptible host.”
The Delta variants are more transmittable, but *less* virulent. Typical symptoms are those of a common cold. And the mortality rate is some 10X *lower*.
Biden is the one libel for all this covid coming into the USA with open borders you incompetent and the CDC has chose most of the deaths by not allowing Dr. to treat patients as soon as diagnosed with covid instead of sending them home, then only giving them medicine when it has advanced to much to control the virus and need to be on a ventilator. Ventilaters that seem to damage the lungs also.
This is not the same world as a 19 y.o Marine standing in a long airgun and jab inoculation line. The trust for this corrupt gov’t is at an all time low…if you can “think critically” you’re outta there!
It appears that the vaccine doesn’t work, it can’t because these useful idiots want to ensure that even people without risk to the virus and the fact that the India variant has only a 0.08% mortality rate in “non-vaccinated” individuals. This is marxism, communist tactics threatening people with removal of their personal freedoms. Wen is a communist, period.
Tucker Carlson reveals a leaked email showing that the U.S. Military is moving illegal immigrants secretly around the country from Laughlin Air Force Base in Texas.
“Do not take photographs and refrain from posting anything on social media,” the email reads.
2015 July, Trump announced his presidential bid.
It is strange NYT “Inspector General Says F.B.I. Botched Nassar Abuse Investigation” which started in July of 2015. Afterwards due to “multiple federal agents covered up Nassar’s abuse and child molestation” 70 more women victims were sexually abused July 2015 to Aug 2016. when the MSUPD received a separate complaint.
It’s sort of a coincidence and rather disconcerting at how the FBI may have been preoccupied with illegal actions against former President Trump while neglecting the sexual abuse of young women.
( (headline from NYT, quote from John Manly a lawyer for many of the victims. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/sports/olympics/fbi-nassar-report.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210714&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=2585408&segment_id=63470&user_id=99d0bac73a0e0ed40eb421e060769f8d )
Arizona Senate President Says 2020 Election Audit’s Ballot Count Doesn’t Match Maricopa Tally
If true as described, this is a worrisome development in federal law enforcement:
“False statements related to health care matters” is now a federal crime?
I think you might take an interest in defending anti-vax freedom, as a legal scholar. I’m not an attorney. I am a retired MD who loves medical history.
Looking at Jacobsen v. Massachusetts (1905) a few arguments may be raised:
1. Smallpox was a deadly disease among children. In many communities in the Northeast, as many as 5% of children under age 12 died, and some high-population-density locations, even more. These were people whose “whole lives are ahead of them”. For Covid, such high death rates are only seen in the elderly, whose whole lives have already been lived. Nobody wants to see Grandma or Grandpa die three months before their natural demises, but Covid has not been a major threat to the lives of healthy Americans.
So this is one major difference for a vaccine requirement that SCOTUS upheld for a much, much more deadly disease than Covid.
2. Smallpox vaccination had proven to be safe and effective for a long period. Edward Jenner had announced the efficacy of Cowpox inoculation in 1798, and within 20 years, his vaccination was adopted widely. About a half-century later, a cheaper alternative Vaccinia, which was mass-cultivable in rabbits, was adopted.
We don’t know what types and prevalences of side-effects were acceptable in 1905, but safety was accepted, and efficacy was time-proven over decades, when the Commonwealth of Massachusetts mandated smallpox vaccination.
The Covid vaccinations, devised only SEVERAL MONTHS ago, utterly lack smallpox vaccinations’ multi-DECADE track record.
3. On private companies’ mandating vaccinations for employees and customers, and schools and state colleges’ mandating vaccines for students, the vaccine manufacturers are indemnified for injurious side effects, but are the other private and state parties? If I take the vaccine, under threat of job loss, and if I have a severe injury from the vaccine, is my employer free from liability? Is my local school or my community college?
Mark– Great comment! These are things everybody should be asking although, lately there are efforts not only to suppress the answers but also to suppress the questions.
So much for informed consent that has been a part of medical law, created and elaborated by courts, for decades. Now it doesn’t count apparently.
As an aside, your mention of smallpox, “a much, much more deadly disease than Covid” made me wonder if the Chinese might start tinkering with that one next.
If you really are an M.D., then you should know that there hasn’t been general smallpox vaccination recommended or required in the US since the 1970’s because more people were dying of side-effects of the vaccine than the illness itself because the disease had been considered eradicated. One reason I know this is because I worked for a public health department in a major US city. We kept around the vaccine mainly for missionaries and those going on safaris to Africa. I’m not sure that’s smallpox vaccination is still available any place. You are trying to make the case that ONLY the elderly or infirm die of COVID. That’s not true. In fact, in Trump Country, there are ICU’s full of children, some on ventilators. The likelihood of a “severe injury from the vaccine” is too remote to even be a valid consideration.
Look at the demographics of the kids. A vanishingly small number had no apparent comorbidities, which echoes the problems adults have had with COVID.
Smallpox was declared “eradicated” by WHO ca. 1983. Two bioweapons labs USSR and USA had the only declared repositories. The point about mandatory smallpox vaccination was SCOTUS upheld it when smallpox was a devastating pandemic virus, and vaccines were decades-established as safe and effective.
As for being an M.D., I learned a lot about virology and immunology before I went to med school,including working two years in a molecular virology lab, and developing r radioimmunoassay. My undergrad research advisor was elected to the National Academy of Sciences AND the National Academy of Medicine. And your scientific and medical education is…?
Here’s an easy one. You start with 5′ AUG-CCU-R 3′, and from it synthesize 3′ TAC-GGA -R’ 5′. What is the essential enzyme required to do this? If you don’t know this, you know nothing about the Covid vaccines, or, for that matter, the Covid PCR test.
Do you know what a monoclonal antibody is? Do you know why Leroy Hood was nominated for the Nobel Prize on multiple occasions?
American Academy of Pediatrics
THE END OF ROUTINE SMALLPOX VACCINATION IN THE UNITED STATES
C. Henry Kempe
Pediatrics April 1972, 49 (4) 489-492;
ArticleInfo & MetricsComments
1971 was the year in which the Surgeon General of the United States Public Health Service, the Redbook Committee of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the Territorial Health Officers agreed that the time had come to discontinue routine primary smallpox vaccination for American children. As a result of this it may also be expected that school vaccination laws presently in effect in some 28 states will soon be repealed or will not be enforced with vigor.
The American pediatrician views these developments with mixed feelings, since there have been extensive and often spirited debates regarding the timing for discontinuation of routine smallpox vaccination.
Smallpox vaccinations have ended. Everyone knows.
But what happens if the Chinese or Iranians decide to play with smallpox virus and it jumps out?
Almost the entire world is vulnerable.
This from Young. I don’t know why it came up Anonymous.
Hi Mark 🙂
Predictive Programming Injection with Spike (Branched) DNA Proteins Used for Tracking Grid In X-Files Season 2
Jul 13, 2021
Bill Gates Is EVIL
Bill Gates Is EVIL
X-files Episode Makes Wild Similar Comparison to Covid Spiked or Branched DNA Proteins Attacking Immune Sysytem After Shot Which Originally Aired on November 11, 1994
Natural immunity should be acknowledged as equally protective, since if anything it is more protective. Those with natural immunity should not be coerced into a vaccine that has only risk for them. That includes college students.
Yes!! People who were confirmed recovered from Covid 19 were asked to donate plasma to help others recover…those that only had “immunity” from the vaccine were not asked to donate plasma to help Covid patients recover. Makes one wonder why natural immunity is now completely omitted as part of herd immunity. I am not an anti-vaxxer…I had Covid, I recovered, I do not want to take this vaccine.
It won’t be long before companies and businesses will require their workers be vaccinated or be fired.
The surging cases and more kids going to hospitals and icu’s. Will create a situation where companies have large numbers of employees being absent due to COVID again. Therefore losing productivity and money.
It’s already been established that you can be fired for not getting the vaccine. Many employees in Texas learned that the hard way.
“Taken together, these results indicate that childhood obesity likely increases risk of severe COVID-19”
50% of kids in poverty are obese.
I, for one, wish they’d quit screwing around and make the damn thing mandatory.
I’m fed up with the selfish and the ignorant deciding the course of my life – and so needlessly.
We have a freaking vaccine that works. Religious objections? Your right to practice your beliefs does not trump my right to staying alive.
Is this really complicated? Biden just needs to seek a set of stones.
The public health establishment forfeited the presumption of trust.
Besides, if you are that afraid of the swine flu, you can get vaccinated and not worry those among us who choose not to be vaccinated from the swine flu.
Michael– Yes, the public health establishment sank their credibility when they went along with not stopping Black Lives Matter riots because of Covid but raised Covid as a problem with church gatherings and protests against stay-at-home orders. Who knew the Covid/China virus was a member of BLM?
Now, because of such idiocy, a lot of the country looks at everything coming from the government with skepticism. Verify and then, maybe, trust.
More Marxists; Deport all Marxist before they destroy this USA!
Only you decide the course of your life. If you stay confined because Government tells you to, then that’s your choice and no one else’s.
As for your right to staying alive, absolutely. No one has a right to endanger others with their actions. Completely agree with you. Now, however, you must prove that lack of vaccination is a direct threat on your life. When you got vaccinated (which I’m assuming that you have been), did you not do so to “protect” yourself? If not, then why did you do it? So, if you’re protected – why are you so worried about whether others have chosen to get the shot or not? You’re golden, right?
Here’s a recommendation: try having an honest discussion with people who have chosen not to get these shots to find out the reasons why rather than assuming that they are “selfish or ignorant”. I respect that you believe that what you chose was right for you, now afford me the same respect.
I’m fed up with the selfish and the ignorant deciding the course of my life – and so needlessly. We have a freaking vaccine that works.
Apparently John, Biden won’t be looking to you for a set of stones. You decided the course of your own life and took the vaccine, that according to you works. If it works, then you are under no threat from those that choose to take a different course with their own life. This is not really that complicated. Unless of course you have no confidence in the efficacy of the vaccine and fear your health is still at risk. Which of course makes the case for others choosing not to take the experimental vaccine and with the possible side effects.
You are vaccinated so you are safe then! The vaccination status of anybody else is irrelevant to your safety. It is a personal choice. For that matter, the vaccines prevent symptoms to some extent but not infection or transmission. It’s obvious now from the surge in infections and even deaths in vaccinated individuals in UK and Israel. The Pfizer vaccine is only 65% effective (at preventing symptoms) against the Delta variant (according to the data out of Israel) so really your argument that anybody else needs to get the vaccine in order to protect you is totally baseless.
“ The Pfizer vaccine is only 65% effective (at preventing symptoms) against the Delta variant (according to the data out of Israel) so really your argument that anybody else needs to get the vaccine in order to protect you is totally baseless.”
There wouldn’t be a delta variant if people were adhering to the distancing masking in the first place. The whole reason we have a delta variant is because of those spreading disinformation about COVID and stupidly subverting attempts at mitigation of the virus.
All that work put into creating an effective vaccine can be upended by a bunch of yahoo’s who can’t grasp the fact that it is THEIR ignorance that’s creating the problems we are currently facing.
The delta variant is more contagious and is affecting younger people instead of the much older folks. In Mississippi COVID delta is exploding and it’s putting children in the icu.
Missouri is having the same problem because stupid Trump supporter’s massive ignorance are creating a new opportunity for a shut down of local communities where the majority of residents remains unvaccinated.
Their ignorance is putting those who are vaccinated at risk because the delta variant can possibly weaken their the immunity that the vaccine provides.
The longer the idiots keep ignoring the pleas over “freedom” and idiotic conspiracy theories the more chances increase for a more aggressive and ultimately a more vaccine resistant variant will emerge.
I have no sympathy for those who get sick after having the opportunity to protect themselves. The only time they realize they should have had the shot is AFTER getting seriously sick. By then it’s too late for many others who came in contact. Many who may end up in a hospital and rack up big bills.
“There wouldn’t be a delta variant if people were adhering to the …”
Svelaz, tell us when you will be expecting your Nobel Prize for Mathematics.
Another couple more shots of the bug juice & he’ll likely be fine. Maybe even a SSRI.
I’m glad you got a laugh OKY, but I have to admit spell check changed my original Nobel Prize for Mythematics to mathematics
Wow! I’ve heard of drinking the kool-aid, but this guy chugged the whole bowl!
Why don’t you grab your stones and come administer the vaccine to my arm yourself you paranoid freak?
Your right to shake in your boots over something you can’t see does not trump my right to put two in your chest and one in your head for trying to jab me in the arm with something I don’t want.
I’m a bit late to the comment party but I just came across this article about Invermectin. This is not exactly a right wing journal. https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx. So it occurs to me that since Ivermectin is a drug out of patent and pretty cheap why wouldn’t it be promoted rather than vilified. It’s probably all about the money, honey. Pharma doesn’t make money off of cheap drugs. And Fauci doesn’t get air time and the NIH doesn’t get royalties.
Killer statement: “the Panel cannot draw definitive conclusions on the clinical efficacy of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19”
In other words, they don’t know.
They admit that there are reports that it has helped people, but the sample sizes were too small to qualify as a strict study.
What were the sample sizes of the trials of the vaccines, and how long did they run, before they were given to millions of people? Compared to them the ivermectin studies were pretty good.
Unmentioned is that unlike the jab, ivermectin has been used for years or millions of people and its side effects are mild.
Outfits like Cancer Foundations, I’ve seen some of their mission statements. If Cancer is Cured They’re out of Business. You know, there’s all those Billions of $$$ at stake.
I remember a guy that regretted having to put his dog down because of the guy’s old age. He shot the dog in the head but the dog ran off.
The dog came back 3 dogs later , head swollen, looking ugly rough. It was like the dog knew at that point he had no choice. ……… and then
That’s what the guy told me.
Can we, The Citizen Owners of this Country, speak in public about such things as people White Lab Coats, Big Pharma & Nuremberg with out it being held against us?
Connection failed for a bit, but I think it’s back now, to many links maybe:
A look back at some of the history Vaccine Industrial Complex. Safe & Effective is what they say. Many of us ask, what’s their meaning of Effective?
What the CDC Won’t Tell You About SV40, Polio Vaccines and Cancer
Sep 16, 2014.
The public was kept in the dark for decades about tens of millions of polio vaccines laced with SV40, and its implications for the widespread epidemic of cancer.
The relevant facts were known by the scientific community back in 1960, but it wasn’t until lawsuits and investigative reports in the 1990s and a Congressional hearing in 2003 that the public was informed about the scale of the contamination and its possible link to many of the deadly forms of cancer spreading today. Yet little has been acknowledged in public discussion since that point.
In the aftermath of these admissions and inquiries, the CDC launched a fact sheet page on its website addressing the links between “Cancer, Simian Virus 40 (SV40), and Polio Vaccine” which noted the discovery of SV40, its presence in an estimated 10-30 million doses of polio vaccine and disputed scientific claims concerning its presence in cancer tumors and its possible role in causation.
Worse, scientists in the late 1990s revealed a secondary form of SV40 that was present in post-1963 versions of the polio vaccines — after the formulations with SV40 were replaced — which were not detectable in the testing methods used up until that point — meaning that the impact of this virus on the public could be even more widespread yet largely unknown.
But as of June 2013, that CDC page has been apparently scrubbed and is no longer available, except through a cached version shown in this video. Do they expect the public to forget?
Regardless, nothing has been done to hold any of the pharmaceutical giants responsible for this monstrosity liable for their actions, and the companies continue to produce vaccines administered to Americans every single day.
Whatever master agenda could be at work here, it is amazing that the American and global public continue to trust their bodies to the same science that ‘accidentally’ contaminated tens of millions of people vaccinated for polio with a monkey virus found time and again in cancerous tumors. The presence of SV40 — which Merck vaccine scientist Maurice Hilleman joked in the video below caused tumors — has not officially been recognized by the government as having caused all these cancers (again, the CDC has continued to affirm ‘further research is needed’).
As this strain of monkey virus has consistently been found present in many types of cancerous cells in people all over the world at this point, the significance of such a correlation cannot be denied.
Why are the same industry and government players allowed to continue to play both God and doctor on your children? On your family, neighbors and fellow human beings? Why has no one been held accountable for these crimes of negligence, or worse?
I can still remember hearing a radio advertisement trying to convince vaccinated people to still wear masks and practice social distancing because “doubling up” or something.
Coercion requires trust to work; the public health establishment has forfeited the presumption of trust more than once.
also many not know this, but OSHA came out and stated that employees can legally sue companies that force vaccines if the employees have severe side effects from the vaccine!
Below is a video from James O’Keefe’s presentation at CPAC .An amazing number of people have stepped forward to expose social media and the MSM. One can hear what some of them have to say along with some portions of tapes that have been released earlier in full where the executives are caught on tape. You won’t see any of this on the MSM even thought this is a tiny tidbit of what has been released. People are fed up with the shills of the left.
Wen was the head of Planned Parenthood i.e. a eugenist. That’s all we need to know.
Your thesis appears a bit unstable.
This is the biggest clinical research project in history. Only difference is the subjects are not given a choice to participate or not.
Big Pharma has everything to gain and nothing to lose if people die or suffer serious side effects from the covid vaccines.
From a Newsweek Factcheck in January 2021: https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-are-pharmaceutical-companies-immune-covid-19-vaccine-lawsuits-1562793
According to 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22, “No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings.”
In other words, companies that manufacture vaccines are not liable if someone has an allergic reaction or injury after being vaccinated.
However, individuals can file a petition with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) administered by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to receive compensation if they are found to have been injured by one of the vaccines covered by VICP. According to the Health Resources and Services Administration under HHS, “even in cases in which such a finding is not made, petitioners may receive compensation through a settlement.”
VICP, also known as “vaccine court” has been accepting petitions, also known as claims, since 1988, and has paid about $4.4 billion in overall compensation, according to CNBC.
Though VICP covers vaccines for diseases including human papillomavirus (HPV), measles, mumps, polio and seasonal influenza, it does not cover any COVID-19 vaccines.
Pharmaceutical companies are protected from liability regarding the COVID-19 vaccines. If someone has an allergic reaction or injury from one of the vaccines, they can petition to receive compensation from the Department of Health and Human Services’ (HHS) Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP).
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP), which also falls under the jurisdiction of HHS, has a better record of providing compensation to people who claim injury from a vaccine than CICP but covers vaccines for diseases such as polio and seasonal influenza, not COVID-19.
Problems still await Big Pharma of legal exposure I believe, 1st their Gene Therapies are not legal considered vaccine by definition of such, 2nd is it seems to some of us they are unapproved birth control that are reported as destroying reproductive organs & causing abortions, 3rd is they are more aptly defined as Gain Of Function Bio-Weapons & a Bio-Weapon Attack Against the US & the rest of the world violating US Laws against such, ( Ck Francis Boyle), International Law, etc. (Nuremberg Code). There’s more……
If you pay the 5 bucks you can access attorney Robert Barnes legal exemption against taking vaccines or Gene Therapies.
Somewhere I’ve a free one I post here from Boyle.
If I do what the government tells me to do (like a good little sheep) and take the vaccine, I am completely on my own if I have an adverse reaction. The vaccine compensation fund only pays out 6% of the time on average after LENGTHY deliberation (I.e. the “you’ve already been foreclosed on” type of lengthy) which I’m sure isn’t an accident. The drug company has been shielded from any liability. The government is not going to pay to take care of me or my family. My employer won’t continue to pay me if I can’t physically show up to work. My health insurance is horrible compared to what it was a few years ago (big thanks to you, Barack) and doesn’t begin to cover anything until I’ve met thousands in deductible. All of this for a disease that has a 99.7% chance of recovery. If it was Ebola running around, I might think differently (don’t get any ideas, Uncle Sam), but the minuscule risk of death doesn’t justify taking a risk of side effect that could have an equally adverse effect.
So, if I don’t take an experimental vaccine and risk a physical side effect that could cost me my livelihood among other things, then Dr. Leana Wen is going to punish me? She’s afraid of what advocating for an out and out mandate could mean for her favorite political party, so she’s going to find other ways of punishing me. I’m sure that her paychecks were uninterrupted while the rest of us were going without. I’m sure her credit score is great while ours was being thrashed. I’m sure she’s received at least one or two salary increases while the rest of us were being laid off.
Bottom line. It’s MY decision what to do with MY health. Sound familiar Democrats? I’ll make a decision what to do for myself and my family. I’m not going to put any faith in an arrogant, condescending, narcissist who looks at me like a lab rat in her little social experiment.
That is precisely the type of rational calculation that any thinking adult should conduct. And it should be the end of the story.
The only point I would add is this:
“All of this for a disease that has a 99.7% chance of recovery.”
Delta variants are the latest scare tactic from the Chicken Littles. While those variants appear to be more transmissible, they seem to be far less deadly — with a recovery rate of some 99.9%.
“Delta variants are the latest scare tactic from the Chicken Littles.”
These particular chicken littles have Marxism running through their blood.
Please don’t use words you don’t understand.
Pamela, would you be so kind as to tell me the words you think I don’t understand? Maybe you read things out of context or something else happened.
It’s Darwinian selection: Virus Alpha drives to bed most of its hosts, and kills 5% of them. These hosts expose only their caretakers, then no one else when the hosts die.
Mutants include: viruses that drive even more people to bed and death; mutants with same propensities as Virus Alpha; and mutants that are more benign, allowing hosts to go to work, go shopping, go to church, and spread their mild infections widely. Under Darwinian Natural Selection, the last viruses are disseminated most broadly, becoming massively dominant, and eventually the sole evolutionary survivors.
Covid Delta is not more contagious because Covid Delta virions pass through N95 masks better than the Alpha virions. It’s not more contagious because it floats through the air better than Alpha, so if you are 6 ft from a Delta patient, you are going to inhale Delta, but Alpha would not reach you. Delta is more contagious because Delta hosts only have mild common-cold symptoms, and are going out and about, spreading the new virus.
Big Finance is the willing shill for Big Government! As their agent, we need to rein them in, too. Trust Busters!
Ha! Knew it, Big Mess. You’re vaccinated and are just here to talk moron at the coffee klatch with the guys.
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