Yesterday I wrote a column in the Hill about the FBI reportedly finding no evidence a planned insurrection at the Capitol on January 6th. In a related story, the Capitol Police has now entirely cleared the still unnamed officer who shot and killed Ashli Babbitt despite her being unarmed. The decision was marked by the same lack of information that characterized an earlier decision from the Justice Department. There is little media coverage of the obvious disconnect in the handling of this shooting and other uses of force against protesters in recent riots. Even law professors are largely silent on the implications of a finding that the shooting of an unarmed protester is justified. Babbitt seems to be treated as “fair game” because she was part of the January 6th riot.
Babbitt, an Air Force veteran, was a decorated security forces controller who served multiple Middle East tours from 2004 to 2016
A memo from the commander of the Capitol Police’s Office of Personal Responsibility simply says “no further action will be taken in this matter” after the officer was exonerated for use of force. However, there are very troubling questions about the shooting, as previously discussed.
Not only was there no claim that Babbitt was believed to be armed, but there were officers directly behind her and in front of her at the time. As I noted earlier, if the officer intended to shoot Babbitt, it would not likely meet the standard for a justified shooting under governing cases like Tennessee v. Garner (1985). If the officer fired blindly or wildly, it would appear to have many of the same negligent elements as the Wright shooting.
I was highly critical of the maddening findings of the Justice Department in the case. In rejecting charges, the Justice Department statement notably does not say that the shooting was clearly justified. Instead, it noted that “prosecutors would have to prove not only that the officer used force that was constitutionally unreasonable, but that the officer did so ‘willfully.’” It stressed that this element requires a showing of “a bad purpose to disregard the law” and that “evidence that an officer acted out of fear, mistake, panic, misperception, negligence, or even poor judgment cannot establish the high level of intent.”
Violent riots are unfortunately common today in cities ranging from Minneapolis to Portland to Washington. The use of live rounds however have never been authorized absent a particularized showing of a significant threat to an officer or others. Nothing in the announcement in the Babbitt case answers how such a showing was made by the officer. Will the media support local police using live ammunition to break up the next violent riot? We have seen protests turned into riots repeatedly in the last few years, including racial justice protesters taking over police stations and city hall buildings. Officers did not use live rounds when protesters broke through doors of police stations or a city hall. They did not use live fire when protesters were breaking through windows and barriers to burn down police buildings. Will the Babbitt standard now apply?
Reasonable people could disagree on the shooting. I fail to see the justified basis under controlling legal standards but I may have the bias of a criminal defense attorney. What I object to is the absence of specificity in the facts and answers to satisfy the standards under cases like Tennessee v. Garner. Instead there is a conspicuous use of conclusory analysis to dismiss the allegations. There is also the general lack of interest in the media and in academia on the implications of these decisions to clear the unnamed officer.
“I will fight hard to stamp out sexual assault, to rid our ranks of racists and extremists, and to create a climate where everyone fit and willing has the opportunity to serve this country with dignity. “The job of the Department of Defense is to keep America safe from our enemies. But we can’t do that if some of those enemies lie within our own ranks.”
-Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, January 2021
Mr. Austin spent too far too much time fighting to stamp out the Biden regime’s domestic political enemies – people like Ashli Babbitt – and not enough time fighting our nation’s true enemies like the Taliban. Following his boss’ lead, Austin’s underling Mark Milley spent his time trying to understand ‘white rage.’ What about Taliban rage, General?
Gentlemen, have you both forgotten American Airlines Flight 77, which was highjacked by actual Taliban supported terrorists and succeed in destroying a large part of the Pentagon? Or United Airlines Flight 93, which was highjacked by still other Taliban-supported terrorists hell-bent on destroying the Capitol? A mission that was thwarted, not by military apparatchiks like yourself, but by heroic American citizens like Todd “Let’s Roll” Beamer?
Austin and Milley utterly failed in their mission to protect our nation from the Taliban. But we can all sleep better at night knowing that Austin and Milley and their ilk will never shirk from their duty to protect the ruling class from unarmed 105 pound women like Ashli Babbitt. All while managing to strip our armed forces, and our nation, of their dignity on the world stage. Imbecilic, to quote Tony Blair. Both men should resign immediately.
Remember Ashli Babbitt. January 6, 2021.
This case illustrates the difference in justice between those who kill in the name of BLM/Antifa and those who kill unarmed conservatives.
Social (i.e. relativistic) justice anywhere is injustice everywhere.
Who killed in the name of Antifa and hasn’t been charged?
“Unnamed” Anti-fa members killed and injured multiple cops, destroyed millions of dollars of private property, destroyed and overran multiple public buildings and destroyed tons of public property such as streets,federal buildings, state and federal vehicles, etc etc. Antifa has been protected by the Leftists who will let their cities, businesses, and people suffer – hopefully some of those people have brains enough to vote out the corrupt Democrat pols.
““Unnamed” Anti-fa members killed and injured multiple cops”
How are the DOJ or state DAs supposed to charge an “unnamed” person?
They haven’t charged the unnamed person who left the IEDs outside the RNC and DNC on Jan. 5 either. Because they haven ‘t identified him or her.
Duh.
Did they bother to look at those hidden videos of Pelosi’s Ret Gen friend “They
say were” planting them? We’d all be very interested in seeing those videos I’m sure.
I don’t know, maybe the DOJ/FIB look at videos like of that retired Fm Chief Police, working security, out of St Louis being wracked & arrest the piece of crap if the haven’t ready & there’s plenty of other cases like it on videos.
Maybe they could look at the videos of the pBLM/Pantifa’s that attempted to blow up with a fire bomb at & kill Kyle Rittenhouse & drop all the charges for him using Self Defence rather then doing nothing being m urdered by the riot mob.
Never mind, likely nothing. Carry on.
“Yesterday I wrote a column in the Hill about the FBI reportedly finding no evidence a planned insurrection at the Capitol on January 6th.”
Why didn’t you just wait until there was an actual statement from the FBI?
We know that Trump chose the date and time of his rally to coincide with Congress certifying the Electoral College vote, that Trump and his allies repeatedly announced the date to his supporters and asked them to show up to the rally, that Trump told them it would be “wild” and they needed to “fight like hell,” that Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol in the midst of the certification and lied to them that he’d go with them, that some of his supporters brought weapons and body armor, that some of his supporters were coordinating with each other during the insurrection, that many of those arrested have stated that they believed they were doing Trump’s bidding, that some of his supporters were literally wearing shirts that said “MAGA Civil War, January 6, 2021” on that day, etc.
From Twitter:
“The rally was timed and the speakers’ exhortations tuned to deliver a mob of fanatics to the doors of the Capitol at the hour Congress took up the certification–which Trump had been obsessing about interrupting for weeks beforehand–but apparently that’s too obvious for the FBI.”
response:
“That, and also, the article itself says that far-right groups planned to breach the Capitol during this planned protest. The consequences of that are foreseeable, but it’s somehow not an attempt to overthrow the government because they didn’t have a clear plan for what came next. It was a putsch! This is what a putsch IS! Conspirators rally a mob in an attempt to overthrow a government! The mob itself is not, like, part of the advance planning”
If it’s true that the FBI has found no evidence, then they are willingly blind to the evidence in plain sight and choosing not to do a thorough investigation. Has the FBI sought subpoenas to check emails or texts from Trump and allies relevant to the insurrection?
Yes, people protest the actions of government most typically at the time and place that government acts.
While these people had excellent reasons to challenge the legitimacy of those government actions – even if they did not, that is not relevant.
The right to protest government is NOT conditioned on the legitimacy or illegitimacy of what government is doing.
We are free to march to congress and protest the start of a session claiming that little green men had taken over.
I’m not questioning the right to peaceful protest. Peaceful protest is not an insurrection.
Which is why I was discussing whether there’s “evidence a planned insurrection at the Capitol on January 6th.” Hundreds of people have been indicted for their illegal actions at the Capitol that day, some of them for violence, some of them in indictments that indicate coordination.
“We are free to march to congress and protest the start of a session claiming that little green men had taken over.”
But you’re not free to carry out crimes while doing so.
You can read the criminal charges here: justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
And you can read more details by looking at the docket for each case.
“It has been REPEATEDLY confirmed that there were no firearms or offensive weapons at the capital on Jan 6. th.”
Four of the LE officers testified under oath about the weapons used by the insurrectionists, and you can read the weapons charges, including firearms charges, at the link above.
“If this was an insurrection, if this was a n attempt to overthrow the government. if this was an attempt to thwart certifying the election BY FORCE – these people would have been armed and they would have succeeded.”
Some of them WERE armed, and if an insurrection fails, that does not imply that it wasn’t an insurrection. They did thwart the certification for several hours.
There is no evidence of coordination. There were no firearms or scalpels confiscated at the event. The certification was delayed by choice, not force. There is evidence of anti-activists and a trail of collusion that most recently leads back to Michigan. There is evidence of handmade tales spun by the media and official actors to steer public opinion in a trial by press. There is no evidence that the unidentified officer aborted her life in self-defense, not with immediate, imminent, probable, or even plausible cause. We know that Pelosi et al denied an offer of executive aid to carry out crowd control. We know that those assembled were invited inside and followed direction. We know that there were unaffiliated antagonists among those present. We know that the shooter did not follow ethical or legal procedure and policy to mitigate a non-threat from an unarmed woman surrounded by security officers.
“There is no evidence of coordination”
The DOJ disagrees with you, which is why some people are being charged jointly. You can also see coordination among some people in photos and videos. Here’s an example: web.archive.org/web/20210115122707/https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/15/capitol-rioters-included-highly-trained-ex-military-and-cops/ (second photo, “In this Jan. 6, 2021 image from video provided by Robyn Stevens Brody, a line of men wearing helmets and olive drab body armor walk up the marble stairs outside the U.S. Capitol in Washington in an orderly single-file line, each man holding the jacket collar of the man ahead. The formation, known as “Ranger File,” is standard operating procedure for a combat team “stacking up” to breach a building.” Those are insurrectionists in the photo, not LE.)
“The certification was delayed by choice”
Your opinion. I suggest that you ask the Secret Service who whisked Mike Pence away whether they think it was necessary and why.
They wisked George W. Bush away, all around the country, on 9/11.
Turns out, it was not necessary at all.
You want existentially serious:
“We will stop him.”
– Peter Strzok to FBI paramour Lisa Page
“[Obama] wants to know everything we’re doing.”
– Lisa Page to FBI paramour Peter Strzok
_________________________________
The Obama Coup D’etat in America is the most egregious abuse of power and the most prodigious crime in American political history.
The co-conspirators are:
Kevin Clinesmith, Bill Taylor, Eric Ciaramella, Rosenstein, Mueller/Team, Andrew Weissmann,
James Comey, Christopher Wray, McCabe, Strozk, Page, Laycock, Kadzic,
Sally Yates, James Baker, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr, Priestap, Kortan, Campbell,
Sir Richard Dearlove, Christopher Steele, Simpson, Joseph Mifsud,
Alexander Downer, Stefan “The Walrus” Halper, Azra Turk, Kerry, Hillary,
Huma, Mills, Brennan, Gina Haspel, Clapper, Lerner, Farkas, Power, Lynch,
Rice, Jarrett, Holder, Brazile, Sessions (patsy), Nadler, Schiff, Pelosi, Obama,
Joe Biden, James E. Boasberg, Emmet Sullivan, et al.
__________________________________________
Insurrection?
Absolutely!
It has been REPEATEDLY confirmed that there were no firearms or offensive weapons at the capital on Jan 6. th.
That thoroughly debunks all of the lefts idiotic claims about Jan. 6th.
If this was an insurrection, if this was a n attempt to overthrow the government. if this was an attempt to thwart certifying the election BY FORCE – these people would have been armed and they would have succeeded.
John,
I hear word is from US intel is that those that showed up for Trump’s peaceful event where in fact armed, they had spit balls, rubber bands & bubble gum to put in lil girls hair. Now none of us can stand for that type Insurrection/Sedition can we. lol(sarc)
Mean while, were current under the 4th Phkin Bio-Weapon Attack with Big Pharma’s Broost mRNA Jab.
So sorry about Babbitt, but there’s the large ongoing Attack against us Citizen & Our Govt Every occurring right damn now, if people are not to busy to mess with such a fuss of WW3.
BTW: Funeral Home stocks are still cheap.
It’s just a coincidence that there was a FBI coordinated plot to distract from planned parent/hood facilities, practices, and collateral damage in several Democrat districts, not limited to Whitmer’s Choice.
John say, You keep confusing the definition of weapons here. Being armed is legally defined as being in possession of a firearm or anything of that nature. Being armed is considered being in possession of a weapon that can inflict harm or death when it’s used for that purpose. Many of those Trump insurrectionists wielded baseball bats, poles, batons taken from police officers, bear mace, fire extinguishers, etc. any or those are considered weapons by the law and federal law has multiple definitions of what constitutes weapon and what constitutes being armed. People there were indeed armed.
Actual firearms and ammunition were found just outside of the Capitol in close proximity to the insurrectionists.
On the issue of Babbitt, she was certainly unarmed, but that didn’t protect her from forcing herself into a protected zone where legislators were still present. She was warned multiple times while at gun point and continued to force her way thru. The officer justifiability shot her after not heeding warnings and commands. She suffered the consequences of her own choice to ignore those commands. Let’s not forget that she was already in the process of committing a crime too.
After she was shot everyone in that room suddenly stopped and surrendered. It took the stupidity of Babbitt to bring back everyone in that room to the reality that they CAN get shot.
“She was warned multiple times while at gun point and continued to force her way thru. The officer justifiability shot her after not heeding warnings and commands.”
You’re making stuff up, there is no proof she was ever warned by the cop who shot her (from ambush).
”
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Anonymous says:
August 22, 2021 at 4:30 PM
”
Hi Q,
BTW: Please tell us all how Q’s psyops operation of Insurrection & Sedition with rogue members of the US/Foreign intel groups going.
And one helluva job m urdering Americans in Aflaughistan & you guys & making American look like Crap to our Enemies. You guys should get a pay raise from China/Iran for being such American Hating Scum! POS
In what world would the remarks of those on Twitter who Did NOT participate in the event be evidence of anything ?
As to the FBI – absolutely – they were surveiling (illegally) participants BEFORE Jan. 6 th.
In fact one of the criticisms is that they did not provide the Capital police with the intelligence they had.
Further they have extensively gathered evidence since – as has the media.
You can bet your bottom dollar than ANY facts damaging to these protestors are ALREADY KNOWN.
If the FBI (and others) claims there were no weapons – there were none. If there were – they would be being paraded on TV.
What the FBI is actually doing (as well as the capital police) is HIDING exculpatory evidence.
There are thousands of hours of security video from that day that have not been made public or available to defendants.
“What the FBI is actually doing (as well as the capital police) is HIDING exculpatory evidence.”
***
Probably also hiding their involvement.
50 shades of Michigan et al, which conveniently deferred attention from Whitmer’s role in planned parent/hood facilities and practices and collateral damage in progress from executive mandates.
“In what world would the remarks of those on Twitter who Did NOT participate in the event be evidence of anything ?”
It’s evidence of some people’s interpretations of / arguments about the event. Are you suggesting that the only people whose interpretations matter in our democracy are the people who participated? Because that would be a pretty strange view.
“You can bet your bottom dollar than ANY facts damaging to these protestors are ALREADY KNOWN. ”
You can do that. I will not. They haven’t even identified the person who left the IEDs the night before at the RNC and DNC, despite a large reward, and I doubt that’s the only relevant fact they lack.
“If the FBI (and others) claims there were no weapons – there were none. If there were – they would be being paraded on TV. ”
The DOJ has filed many weapons charges. Are they among the “others” whose claims you count? The LE officers who testified under oath before Congress spoke about the weapons used against them and their colleagues. Are they among the “others” whose claims you count? Their testimony was on TV, is that enough of a “parade” for you?
“What the FBI is actually doing (as well as the capital police) is HIDING exculpatory evidence. There are thousands of hours of security video from that day that have not been made public or available to defendants.”
The government disagrees that it’s “hiding” evidence. In US v. Griffin, the government said “As the volume of material makes it impossible for the government to review every potentially discoverable item and determine its materiality to each specific defendant, and because “[d]efendants are in a better position to determine what evidence they believe is exculpatory and will help in their defense,” it is our intent to provide the defense with all data that may contain such information, but in a manner that will facilitate search, retrieval, sorting, and management of that information.” Griffin’s attorneys have responded and the judge hasn’t yet ruled. I’ll wait to see what he says. If you don’t want to, that’s your prerogative.
The LE officers who testified under oath before Congress spoke about the weapons used against them and their colleagues. Are they among the “others” whose claims you count? Their testimony was on TV, is that enough of a “parade” for you?
Yes, a violation of civil rights, and democratic gerrymander in several Democrat districts. That said, other than an security guard who may have been motivated by diversity (e.g. sexism), and in a depraved state of mind (e.g. finger inside the trigger guard, elective abortion for causes other than self-defense), there were no firearms used to threaten or abort anyone present. The riot stems from Pelosi et al denying executive aid to carry out crowd management, a chaotic order forced by organized agitators (e.g. Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter) and agents a la Whitmer (of Planned Parent/hood fame) Closet, and the capricious denial of authorization to assemble in a public space.
John Say, yes there were firearms and multiple other weapons.
“ A small number of Capitol riot defendants — at least three charged in the federal criminal investigation — have been accused of carrying firearms. But guns weren’t the only threat. According to court documents reviewed by CBS News, 39 defendants have been accused of wielding “deadly or dangerous” weapons that weren’t firearms, including Tasers, tomahawk axes, crowbars, flagpoles, a knife, an ice axe, a firecracker, a stun gun, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, a wooden club and chemical spray.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dangerous/
Yes people were indeed armed.
“ Police said in a criminal charging document that during the evening of January 6, as authorities were clearing the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, 33-year-old Christopher Alberts was slow to respond to police orders. An officer noticed a bulge on his hip and Alberts attempted to flee, but was ultimately caught with a loaded handgun and a spare magazine, along with a gas mask, pocket knife, a packaged military meal and a first aid kit. Authorities said there was one round in the handgun’s chamber.”
From the Hill, Turley’s own publisher of his columns.
“ Police have seized an alarming number of guns from President Trump’s supporters who descended on Washington, D.C., last week and stormed the Capitol in an effort to stop Congress’s certification of the 2020 election results.”
…” The defendant brought these weapons to the immediate vicinity of the U.S. Capitol Building, and traveled to the area with two firearms on his person. The amount of weapons suggests an intent to provide them to others, as no one person could reasonably use so many at once,”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/534329-police-seized-alarming-number-of-weapons-on-capitol-rioters-court%3famp
That’s why your claims are certifiably false.
No firearms claims were realized. Only one firearm was used to threaten and take a life by a security guard who may have been motivated by diversity (e.g. racism, sexism) and in a depraved state of mind committed elective abortion of an unarmed woman who posed no immediate, imminent, probable, or event plausible threat to him or the officers surrounding her.
“A small number of Capitol riot defendants — at least three charged in the federal criminal investigation — have been accused of carrying firearms. But guns weren’t the only threat. According to court documents reviewed by CBS News, 39 defendants have been accused of wielding “deadly or dangerous” weapons that weren’t firearms, including Tasers, tomahawk axes, crowbars, flagpoles, a knife, an ice axe, a firecracker, a stun gun, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, a wooden club and chemical spray.” — Svelaz
Wow, about 40 armed protestors in a crowd of 100,000+? That impressive list of arms sounds awfully dangerous to Our Democracy™ — especially the firecracker. To bad no one thought to bring an F-15 or nuclear bomb…
Ya’ll must be really desperate to maintain the insurrection narrative* — this is shameless.
*Please note the use of a genteel term, narrative, rather than calling this by its rightful name: lie.
Spunky,
That’s just 40 who are known to have been armed. There’s evidence more were. Problem is not everyone was arrested.
It still debunks John says’s claims that there were no armed insurrectionists.
In any court of law those are serious charges, especially when they are used against police officers.
That’s just 40 who are known to have been armed. There’s evidence more were. Problem is not everyone was arrested. — Svelaz
If there was more evidence, there would be more arrests and indictments. There were no armed insurrectionists because there was no insurrection.
Do you not realize how ridiculous, not to mention mendacious, the claim that the 1/6 Capitol protest was an insurrection makes the Democrats, and you, look? Out here in the real world, except for true blue believers, and I know a few, no one I’ve talked to believes this bullsh*t.
“Action makes propaganda’s effect irreversible. He who acts in obedience to propaganda can never go back. He is now obliged to believe in that propaganda because of his past action. He is obliged to receive from it his justification and authority, without which his action will seem to him absurd or unjust, which would be intolerable. He is obliged to continue to advance in the direction indicated by propaganda, for action demands more action.” – Jacques Ellul
No, Neil Young will not be following up his late-1960s song “Four Dead in Ohio” with a 2021 song “Four Dead in Capitol.” The Double Standards of Justice that exist in law, the media, and so-called academia today, also exist among the leftist so-called “artists.” The black “law enforcement” person who murdered Ashli Babbitt–Michael Byrd–walks away 100% exonerated because he was merely a Deep State actor, working at the behest of the Deep State murderers. So, naturally, the obedient leftists serving as lawyers, presstitutes, so-called members of “academia,” and so forth stand 100% behind the cold-blooded murder–or execution, if you will–of American citizens when they serve the Deep State’s political ends. And the leftist members of the public looks at the murder of a white woman by a black “law enforcement” male as “payback” for “Oppressive White Supremacy,” just as the jurors in the OJ Simpson murder case looked at the murder of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman as “payback” for the (justified) beating of the drug-crazed black male Rodney King. They look at the murders of such innocent white Americans by black males as cause for celebration under their perverted social goals.
What I find most interesting about this blog?
That prior to coming here, I didn’t think Trump should stand for office again — but the leftist trolls / propagandists are convincing me otherwise.
How so?
Because you are so clearly nuts.
Your attacks are driven by your politics, not facts,
You attack others for barely perceptable political spin and then present as truth egregiously spun misstatements of fact.
You are either hypocritical or blind. Neither of which is flattering.
I predicted that Biden would fail as president – but I never expected it so fast.
Biden has been president for 7 months. He has had a vaccine – which prior to the election democrats all claimed could nto be trusted because it came from Trump, Since Biden was elected nearly as many people have died from Covid as did during the 10 months Trump fought Covid.
It is transparently clear that Neither Biden nor democrats are any better at dealing with Covid than Trump, and are arguably much worse.
Biden inherited an economy on the rise – consumer confidence was at an all time high – some inflation was expected – in later 2022,
7 months later we are already seeing inflation we have not seen in 4 decades, and consumer confidence and spending are tanking.
Expectations were for 8% growth in 3Q 2021, now we are fearing a recession.
The mideast was at peace under Trump, Under Biden we have been just short of war in israel, The Taliban has overrun Afghanistan and is busy murdering people – left wing nuts fret about non-existant white domestic terrorists while Women are beheaded in Afghanistan.
Violence in cities accross the country is skyrocketting.
You promised greater respect of the US by world leaders – who are now condemning the US botched withdrawl from afghanistan.
We have Biden begging – unsuccessfully to Russian and OPEC and Saudi Arabia – who WAS an Ally for increased oil production – when Biden has the ability to easily boost domestic production.
We have Biden Begging the Taliban, and Russia and China to not murder americans in Afghanistan.
Even the british parliment has condemed Biden’s actions. ‘
Biden’s approval rating is tanking – what is shocking is that ANYONE approves of this botched mess.
While I had no doubt Biden would fail as president – he has done so much faster than I expected.
Finally – when I criticize “biden” – I do not really mean Joe Biden. Most of the country now grasps we elected a demented boob who is not really in charge. I am really criticizing the woke children who are now actually running the country and clearly have no idea what they are doing.
How so? — jeffsilberman
First, because of the absolute hysterics Trump induces in members of both parties, the intelligence agencies, and mainstream media.
Second, because of those hysterics, these same people repeatedly and publically display their hypocrisy.
And third, because if Trump is on the level, maybe he’s gained enough experience to be effective the second time around…
There’s also a sense that if the left / Democrats are so obviously afraid of Trump and his supporters, it might be worthwhile to re-elect him just to see what happens… Perhaps, if Trump won and the shoe were on the other Congressional foot, the left / Democrats just might decide that free speech (among other Constitutional virtues) isn’t such a bad thing after all.
Spanky,
If that is your real name, I agree that Trump should be re-elected provided he is not convicted of a crime by then- tax or otherwise. By the way, you don’t see Ivanka and Jared on Fox News or any other network defending Trumpism. Why is that? They seem to have gone into hiding.
Sincerely, I would like Trump to be re-elected. I want to see him emboldened in order to watch his inner tyrant come out at long last. I want him to refuse to heed the voices of moderation of his close advisers. The guardrails held Trump in check in the last presidential stress test. But now I want him to go for broke in trying to destroy the mainstream media and the so-called “Deep State.” I want to see if our country can withstand an unleashed autocrat. A second Trump term will decide- once and for all- the future of Trumpism- either the political ash heap or not…. we need finality one way or the other.
Spanky, If that is your real name… — jeffsilberman
What does it matter, one way or the other? Were not the Federalist Papers authored anonymously?
Trump should be re-elected provided he is not convicted of a crime… — jeffsilberman
Article 2 of the Constitution provides these limitations on who may serve as President:
1. be a natural-born citizen of the United States.
2. be at least 35 years old
3. been a resident of the United States for 14 years.
There are no restrictions on:
1. upper age.
2. health issues.
3. criminal record.
You may vote for whomever the Democratic and Republican parties field, or an unknown third party or marginalized independent candidate. The electoral game is rigged and has been for a long time…
…you don’t see Ivanka and Jared on Fox News or any other network defending Trumpism. — jeffsilberman
Nor would I care too, even if they were. I do, however, like the way you attempt to discredit populism by calling it Trumpism. The problem for you, and others subscribing to your point of view, is that all Trump did was tap into a long simmering discontent as was manifested several years ago by the (populist) Tea Party movement. Even if Trump disappears tomorrow, they will not, nor will their very real grievances. Plenty of other politicians have seen this as well, and politicians are nothing if not opportunists.
Sincerely, I would like Trump to be re-elected. — jeffsilberman
For some reason, I doubt your sincerity.
I want to see him emboldened in order to watch his inner tyrant come out at long last. I want him to refuse to heed the voices of moderation of his close advisers. — jeffsilberman
So you impute malevolence to Trump and consider the status quo of the D.C. swamp to be moderate. Many people disagree, especially with the second sentence. Trump’s initial appointments were… disappointing. Refusing to stand by Flynn was a mistake — apparently Flynn’s former intel buddies were afraid of him.
I want him to go for broke in trying to destroy the mainstream media and the so-called “Deep State.” — jeffsilberman
LOL… destroy the mainstream media? They made Trump and he played them like a fiddle.
As far as the “Deep State” is concerned, I’d be happy if he closed all foreign military bases, brought all our troops home, reduced the “defense” and “intelligence” budgets to no more than 25% of their present amount, and made good on JFK’s 1000 pieces promise. Well, it would be a good start at least.
I want to see if our country can withstand an unleashed autocrat. — jeffsilberman
You mean Biden isn’t autocratic enough for you? Well, perhaps, the men behind his curtain are slowing the old man down.
“I’d be happy if he…reduced the “defense” and “intelligence” budgets to no more than 25% of their present amount, and made good on JFK’s 1000 pieces promise. Well, it would be a good start at least.”
+1000
There’s some wicked sh*t taking place on U.S. soil… Most Americans are blissfully unaware, it would seem.
Spanky,
If Trump was found guilty of a crime, that would give Republicans the excuse for which they have been waiting to distance themselves from him to find a less controversial standard bearer. I would hope the gullible Trumpists would finally realize the man has been a cheat his whole life.
Trump took his schtick from Talk Radio- Savage, Limbaugh, Levin and Hannity. They have been ginning up populist grievance for years and making a killing doing so. He definitely seized the moment.
I know there is corruption in D.C., but how can people be so cynical of politicians in general and yet fall for such a patently obvious bullsh*tter as Trump? The man has “con” written all over him. He’s a been selling shinola to marks his whole life with his trademark exaggerations and baloney.
I don’t deny that Biden is missing a few screws; trouble is, you refuse to honestly admit what is equally obvious: Trump is a chronic and habitual liar. Can we not at least agree on that?
I don’t know about Spanky, but most of the Trumpolytes are standin’ by their ‘man’ — such as he is.
I’m still not seeing anyone better here then Trump. I’ve been looking.
I just hope someone punches him in the gut & says wake the Ph up & get better fast at Firing Ahole Advises out touch with reality on the ground & Hire Better People that are in touch with Reality.
AKA Jeff Session as AG, I liked it at first, the second he turned on Trump & not a second later he should have been fired & that special council. What was that scum bags name? lol. Yeah, Creep from Dearly Departed or something… Whitey Bulger Mafia Gang, etc.
But my rule book says Trump should have already had a personal manger & team to immediately Fire/Sort though 1/3 of top mgt of the DOJ/FBI/Etc., found the good ones, brought them back in, then moved further down through the ranks until the govt was mostly clean of old/new dead wood.
If he does get back in I hope he’s got his best game with him.
We’ll see.
I do not honestly expect that Trump will run in 2024.
That is 3 years away and Trump will be 3 years older. Lots can happen in that time. Regardless, though I expect Trump to be more capable than Biden in 3 years, none of us get better as we age.
There is alot that I disagree with Trump.
And I would completely agree with you that one of Trump’s big failures are president was NOT saying “Your fired” nearly enough.
Something that I suspect would change if he did get re-elected.
Regardless, Trump has been the best presidents of the 21st century.
And frankly despite his faults is more likely to do well for the country than any other possibility from either party.
Even those I am more aligned with, are less likely to accomplish as much as president.
One of Trump’s most important qualities was the willingness to do what he beleived was right – even if that would result in disaproval from the press, the left, democrats and his own party.
Mist republicans are too afraid of being called nazi’s and fascists to act to take the boot of real fascists off our necks.
“Mist republicans are too afraid of being called nazi’s and fascists to act to take the boot of real fascists off our necks. ”
My family is full of men that have “Honourably Discharged Papers” from the US Military for all wars like WW2. At least 6 I’ve papers here on.
I just hope to avoid being Stupid as is easy as it is for many of us know, but I’m not going to be afraid of real life monsters, they all have there weaknesses also.
Like why are so many of them Pedos or protecting their Pedo Friends?
I don’t have any Pedo friends.
Just that there takes out huge amount of Dems/Rinos & people up & down the line.
My advise for is stop the Pedo crap & others dump their Pedo Friends & take 2 steps back & stop being evil.
It’ll just be up to the Citizens to decide in the end if they want Liberty & Essential Freedom or to return fully to life slavery under Globalist Trash.
I would like to see Trump become speaker of the house. Then he could really raise hell.
I’m still not seeing anyone better here then Trump. I’ve been looking. — Oky1 Trump Won
I’ve two conflicting views of Trump…
Either he was seriously in over his head and out-played, or just controlled opposition (in which case, he played his part well). Once in office, he surrounded himself with swamp creatures, despite his vow to drain D.C. This evinces either a tragic lack of vision and understanding on his part, or it was by design. There are other instances of miscalculations, but this is one is glaringly obvious — how does one drain the swamp by appointing its creatures to the working party?
Spanky,
I’m just now listen to Alex Jones Show.
About what I was attempt to say in the other post, Trump needs Gut Punch now from a loyal aid to Wake the Ph Up & to Fire his Gawd Dang Adviser Now!!!!
IE: I seen a clip a minute ago of Trump in a last night rally in Alabama, he Lies to, Point Black, & tells them the mRNA Big Pharma Jabs are Safe & take it.
The people knew the truth & Rightfully Boo’ed his Azzz. I’d Booed his Azz as I was Walking Out!
Trump better Wake Up & Apologize to us for miss speaking or there goes me & 100 million others!
I follow mRNA info crap everyday, too much, what some people are hear about the mRNA Jabs is complete BS. Just dig & Dig & look at the real Stats, it’s plain as day.
Interesting, In Africa/India even the uneducated know enough to run to the Woods or attack with clubs when Fauci/Bill Gates show up with their Eugenetic Death Jabs.
Question is, did you/we get the special Clean Vaccine or do they give us the Death Jab.
I’d literally trust a shot from a back alley junkie before I’d ever trust Fauci/Gates, NIR/HHS/CDC/Etc.
CONTEXT: “As members of the mob continued to strike the glass doors, Ms. Babbitt attempted to climb through one of the doors where glass was broken out. An officer inside the Speaker’s Lobby fired one round from his service pistol, striking Ms. Babbitt in the left shoulder, causing her to fall back from the doorway and onto the floor.”
Professor Turley cited the above account from the Justice Department, so I presume he believes it to be accurate. If it is accurate, as much as I grieve over Ashli’s loss (there are many good things we can say about her life), if I were in a rioting mob and climbing through a broken door with the likely intention of breaking into the House of Representatives, I would expect to be shot, armed or not.
I respectfully disagree with Professor Turley. Distinguishing between armed and unarmed during a riot inside our Capitol is impractical. I would not prosecute the officer under such circumstances.
I would not prosecute the officer under such circumstances. — Diogenes
Respectfully, we disagree…
A trial (if conducted and perceived as fair) airing evidence in open court is the only way to resolve the issues, both legal and political, surrounding her death specifically and the 1/6 protest generally.
Her family is supposedly planning to file a wrongful death suit against the officer, so you may well have the trial you want.
By one interpretation it is possible the officer, a BLM adherent according to some reports, may have been looking for an opportunity to shoot a white person.
Would he have fired his pistol if she had been black?
I suspect not given the restraint shown when BLM was looting and burning cities.
Alishi was not in a rioting mob. There were multiple armed police on her side of the door, there was no conflict with them.
One should not have to “break in” to the house of representatives. We are supposed to conduct the business of govenrment PUBLICLY.
Regardless, the LAW regarding federal law enforcement shooting people requires them to be an immediate threat of death or life threatening injury to yourself or others. It also requires that there are no less lethal options available.
That was not the case.
Babbit’s murder was far more egregious than anything any cop did to anyone in 2020 – including George Floyd.
Floyd was caught committing an actual crime – passing a counterfeit 20.
He was high as a kite, out of control, resisting arrest, and he was twice as big a person as Derick Chauven.
Yet no one shit him in the Neck. Chauven was convicted of murder for his attempts to restrain Floyd.
Babbit was unarmed threatening no one, half the size of the cop, and was shot in the neck.
John say’s argument is so severely flawed it’s laughable.
“ Alishi was not in a rioting mob.”
Yes she was. She was PART of the rioting mob the second she chose to break the law by entering the Capitol. She was actively participating in the riot.
“ There were multiple armed police on her side of the door, there was no conflict with them.”
They were not in any position to prevent her from forcing her way into the lobby. Officers on her side where already overwhelmed by the crowd and had to leave their positions in front of the doors. Officers can’t discriminately shoot people in such a situation. None where in the line of sight when Babbitt was shot.
Babbitt was entering a secured zone. The other rioters were not.
“ One should not have to “break in” to the house of representatives. ”
Obviously not, but many did and forced their way in. Illegally.
“ Regardless, the LAW regarding federal law enforcement shooting people requires them to be an immediate threat of death or life threatening injury to yourself or others. It also requires that there are no less lethal options available.”
The rules change when members of congress are involved. Your own statement confirms it, “ an immediate threat of death or life threatening injury to yourself OR OTHERS.”
Since this officer was charged with protecting members of congress he was well within his duty to shoot given the situation.
She was not murdered. She was just a lm idiot who ended up getting shot for her stupid decision.
Absolutely!
eb
Considering crowd estimated for the march to the capital on Jan 6th are anywhere from 10,000 to as much as 100,000 CLEARLY it was a “mostly peaceful” demonstration as only around 900 people have been charged, the vast majority of them with trespassing and similarity nonviolent offenses from media reports. Nobody knows exactly what transpired with the Ashli Babbitt shooting (because apparently w’re not allowed to know), but I can damn well tell you if Ashli Babbitt was a BLACK WOMAN there would ave been riots in every democrat run city across the country and every legal “expert” and liberal commentator would assure us it was because of systematic racism and the police officer has to be held accountable. AND, all the video and evidence would have been released months ago to the media. Oh and, with Biden’s blessings, a multi million dollar settlement would already be in the can.
Will the media support local police using live ammunition to break up the next violent riot? — Turley
Depends, will the next BLM / Antifa riot be called a mostly peaceful protest?
Or will conservative protestors seeking a redress of their grievances be called a violent riot?
Last I heard there are nearly 600 hundred Citizens that have been some how related to events at the DC US Capital grounds 1/6/21 that are currently being Illegal held & Tortured @ Pelosi’s/McConnell’s DC Gulag.
And from what I’m reading from Prof Turley’s Hill article federal prosecutor Michael Sherwin is all in with Torturing/Abusing those Political Prisoners.
“Yet, the characterization of the “insurrection” has continued as a virtual article of faith for those reporting on or writing about Jan. 6. Moreover, the treatment of many has remained severe, if not draconian by design. Justice official Michael Sherwin proudly declared in a television interview that “our office wanted to ensure that there was shock and awe … ”
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/568842-the-fbi-comes-up-empty-handed-in-its-search-for-a-jan-6-plot?rl=1
Now I’m not sure why they decide to attack Owen Shroyer from his show “The War Room” part of the Infowars families news reports, that was with Jones, Crew, Security Detail, On Video, on 1/6/21, but they have attacked & Owen has been ordered into DC Monday before 11am for Arrest for charges related to standing outside the US Capital Bldg Reporting.
My point is Infowars is raising funds for Owen’s Legal help. Good Lawyers cost money & it’s highly unlikely he’ll get anything close a fair hearing anywhere near that DC/NYC/East Coast Mess.
Throw in some cash if you can as those cases effect us all.
Hear is the Link for Owen that didn’t get picked up.
https://www.infowars.com/posts/exclusive-owen-shroyer-responds-to-fraudulent-fbi-january-6th-charges-against-him/
How many died in 2021 from smoking tobacco? How many died from Covid?
What media outlets ctiticise the dumb smokers?
Every terrorist who attacked the Capitol should be shot.
OMG! You are sooooo right!
And here they are.
_______________
The Obama Coup D’etat in America is the most egregious abuse of power and the most prodigious crime in American political history.
The co-conspirators are:
Kevin Clinesmith, Bill Taylor, Eric Ciaramella, Rosenstein, Mueller/Team, Andrew Weissmann,
James Comey, Christopher Wray, McCabe, Strozk, Page, Laycock, Kadzic,
Sally Yates, James Baker, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr, Priestap, Kortan, Campbell,
Sir Richard Dearlove, Christopher Steele, Simpson, Joseph Mifsud,
Alexander Downer, Stefan “The Walrus” Halper, Azra Turk, Kerry, Hillary,
Huma, Mills, Brennan, Gina Haspel, Clapper, Lerner, Farkas, Power, Lynch,
Rice, Jarrett, Holder, Brazile, Sessions (patsy), Nadler, Schiff, Pelosi, Obama,
Joe Biden, James E. Boasberg, Emmet Sullivan, et al.
As long as they all get a fair trial down somewhere like Fort Smith Arkansas or West Texas.
Is Judge Roy Bean still in business?
That would be Zero people as there were no terrorists, and no “attack” on the capital.
No protesters carried guns, or knives. or offensive weapons.
Some – not most protestors broke glass to circumvent the efforts of those running congress to prevent legitimate protest, to prevent the excercise of free speech, to prevent the right of assembly and the right to petition the government.
These protestors sought to oppose – even stop the certification of a lawlessly conducted and possibly fraudulent election until an actual inquiry was conducted.
Whether you like it or not – that is no less a legitimate purpose than those who sought to thwart Kavanaugh’s confirmation.
If you wish to see real Terrorism – try any Antifa-BLM riot.
Or schedule a flight to Kabul.
“No protesters carried guns, or knives. or offensive weapons.”
You clearly haven’t read the firearms and other weapons charges against some of the protesters and clearly didn’t listen to the testimony under oath of the 4 LE officers who recently testified about it before the House.
John say is definitely off his rocker here. Usually he has barely logical arguments, but these few posts are outright false or nuts.
“ Some – not most protestors broke glass to circumvent the efforts of those running congress to prevent legitimate protest, to prevent the excercise of free speech, to prevent the right of assembly and the right to petition the government.”
No, these “protestors” illegally broke into secured areas, beat up and assaulted police officers, vandalized and stole property, and destroyed government property. Seems like they did exactly what antifa has been doing.
Congress wasn’t preventing legitimate protests. They were allowed to protest to their heart’s content outside the barriers. When they forced their way past the barriers it was no longer a protest, it was an assault.
Free speech wasn’t prevented. Heck Trump was exercising his free speech rights next door at his rally.
Congress didn’t prevent them from assembling either.
John why must you stoop so low?
Great!! Let’s start with the Climate Change crowd that stormed Nancy Pelosi’s office in 2018!! Then we can move on to the Kavenaugh protesters who were banging on the locked doors trying to stop the vote. Let’s do this fairly.
“’No Further Action Will Be Taken’: Officer Who Fatally Shot Ashli Babbitt Cleared of Any Wrongdoing By Capitol Police”
– Professor Turley
______________
The capitol police must be decommissioned, tried, convicted and severely penalized for un-American, anti-American activities and treason, and replaced by actual Americans – by Patriots – who take an oath to support the manifest tenor of the Constitution.
Capitol Police Lt., Michael Byrd, a black, racist, illegal alien, communist (liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat, RINO) and unconstitutional affirmative action project, must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for the willful and deliberate murder of Ashli Babbitt, an unarmed, American, female perpetrator of the crime of misdemeanor civil disobedience.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
– Declaration of Independence, 1776
Recent rally. Compare this guy with Biden’s public appearances. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/469314
You folks really screwed up when you stole the election.
I don’t like Biden but remain quite happy that Trump lost the election. That you cannot admit he lost says a lot about you.
I didn’t care all that much for Trump but was quite happy that Hillary lost the election. That the left / Democrats could not admit she lost says quite a lot as well.
Don’t forget Stacy Abrams and Al Gore. Neither admitted a loss.
Thinking of, someone should warn them that being morbidly obese is a risk factor for complications with covid.
The bravado and blood lust of some of you anonymous posters is a clear and shining example of your cowardice and basically a pathological report disguised as a discussion. The FBI has admitted that this was not a planned. Insurrection but a rio.a Reichstag fire moment. BLM had just burned. A Church in a riot shortly before . There was no hail o bullets’ then or Antifa fire bombers either. Ashli lead an exemplary life p ft for to this moment that she was killed in such a manner should male. a decent human being sad I also feel very badly for the officer who we hot her who I believe is simply. In competent. I remember how my father grieved when he had to shoot a fellow sailor who had mental issues snd was slashing people at random when Dad was on Shore Patrol.Terms such as Trumpists, Magarats or communists demorats ,are just ad hominems all emotive indicative of nothing logical.
Arguably this did not even constitute a riot. The Capital police are refusing to provide either to the public or to the defendants the thousands of hours of video that they have of what actually occured.
But why should that surprise – we have seen the same stonewalling efforts to avoid scrutiny for decades.
John say,
“ Arguably this did not even constitute a riot. ”
There was destruction of property, people were beating police, breaking into offices, ransacking, stealing laptops and other government property. Mmm… isn’t that what you accuse antifa of doing and calling or rioting? Looting? Theft?
It’s quite the claim that it doesn’t constitute a riot. So are you suggesting it was an insurrection instead?
Just shows what immature little progressives they are. The progressive movement is going underground again soon, because AMERICANS reject them. Run little progressives run…..
Even the Chinese Army stopped without murdering Tank Man.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Tianasquare.jpg
But he was trespassing. He violated a jurisdictional edict. He did not pose an immediate, imminent, probable, or even plausible threat. His abortion would be wholly justified under the novel standard of liberal jurisprudence. Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter
The Chinese communist leaders subscribe to the Pro-Choice religion. The Chinese People do not… never again.
My thoughts exactly.
Reverse the races and guess the outcome.
Yes, diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism) breeds adversity. That said, while not a person of white per se, but rather in the case of a Hispanic… Hispanic-American (1/2 American) of White, the social justice mob pursued and attempted to cancel people unaffiliated with the defense, and the prosecutor argued that having your head pounded into the ground was not sufficient cause to abort the attacker in self-defense. The Twilight Amendment (“penumbras and emanations”) works in creative ways.
She wasn’t a protester, and saying so is a lie.
Someone breaks into your home, many states allow you to shoot them. She was breaking into OUR Nations Capitol. She wasn’t “protesting”.
It was an obvious attempt to overthrow the government by a bunch of semi armed lunatics wearing military garb and shouting war chants. Problem is, like all these armchair wannabees, call them “Boomer” for short (referencing the character from Doonesbury, not the age group) all of them really don’t want the war they keep blathering about. They want their comfort. They want to play revolution, practice for it by dressing up like Malibu-Rambo on the weekend to play paintball, but then go home after for some meatloaf and iced tea.
They smashed through barricades, assaulted police officers, beating them and destroying barricades and smashing windows to BREAK AND ENTER into OUR Capitol Building of the United States of America while our nations Congressmen and women occupied it, trying to stop a vote being held by force and by their own words at the time “arrest” members of congress.
When they met force, like the soft, armchair wannabes they were, they all ran home and said “who us? no we were just playin”.
And now they’ve got men like you, men who ought to no better, out placating to their “who us we didn’t do nothin” infantile nonsense and making excuses for something had the liberals done it you’d be nailing them to the crosses by sundown.
Its time to stop shilling for a “side” Professor, and its time to start embracing truth again. We all saw what they did. I don’t need anyone’s opinion to clarify it. I watched them beating and battering police officers. I watched them smashing heavy reinforced glass windows in our nations own Capitol building while congress was in session.
Had the secret service opened fire on the entire crowd, they’d have been justified. Our capitol and the congressmen and women we elect to serve in it is part of our collective government and it belongs to all of us. Not just the ones who think their vote is the right one. When they invaded the capitol, smashing their way in, beating and battering police officers to try to “get to the congress” in session, yelling they were going to hang them, etc then the police had every right to open fire. On ALL of them.
The fact that only one of the idiots got shot, is a testament to the restraint of the Capitol police and secret service and you ought to be praising their courage and restraint, not lambasting them for shooting an “unarmed protester” which she was not. She was perhaps unarmed, although the police had NO WAY of knowing that, …. but she was no protestor. She was an terrorist, like the rest trying to overthrow our duly elected govt because their candidate lost. And that’s criminal on every level and its a crime against every American who didn’t vote for their candidate, and also those who did who do not agree with their overthrow the govt if we lose an election ideology.
I don’t know if its the money from Fox news, or what, but I do know this seeming outrage you’re expressing over a police officer shooting an “unarmed” suspect, has been noticeably lacking in recent months when it comes to police shooting an unarmed black suspect. In fact your editorials then are the exact opposite, excusing the police and demonizing the unarmed suspect. You know I’m speaking the truth.
Partisan blinders are a hard thing Professor Turley. Once you try them on you usually find its hard to see anything beyond them.
The elective abortion of a trespasser in a public (albeit restricted) space, let alone while surrounded by trained officers, is a novel justification for self-defense, and an open legal precedent for future action by public and private people… persons.
And the hubris of these trolls blathering about how its so horrible she was such a saint’ blah blah blah, ….here’s a rhetorical question for the lying to themselves masses. If I break into your home tonight, smash the front window yelling and screaming, your wife try’s to stop me so I slam her in the head and into the ground and keep coming screaming as I come….you’re not going to shoot me right?
Yea right.
Grow the f up. She was a criminal at that point. Sad she died that way but she was stupid, and so were the rest of them and so are the ones in here arguing she was murdered. She wasn’t. She was breaking and entering into someone elses property and got shot doing it. Just like all the whiners would do in here to anyone breaking into their home or property, screaming and knocking their family members down and smashing windows and doors to get in. You’d shoot them dead. And pat yourselves on the back for it too.
Partisanship is making liars out of all of you. Both sides. Left and right. Liars to yourselves and everyone else.
Chris,
Next time you post something add a 150% less Bull Sheit & more then a bit of truth.
BTW: I’d like my time back for reading your slop.
She wasn’t a protester, and saying so is a lie. — Chris Weber
So, you are well propagandized. It doesn’t matter that a heavily politicized FBI found no evidence of an “insurrection”. That other Capitol policemen opened doors for the protesters and invited them in…
Had the secret service [sic] opened fire on the entire crowd, they’d have been justified. — Chris Weber
Perhaps you should ask the heavily armed policemen in the crowd with Babbitt, standing immediately behind her when she was shot.
Nor should you be curious about all those unidentified co-conspirators in the indictments, cause you know the police and intelligence agencies would never place undercover operatives in political organizations or agents provocateur in a crowd. The FBI would never manufacture a crime — like a plot to kidnap a sitting governor — swooping in at the last moment to make a political statement and burnish their image.
…lambasting them for shooting an “unarmed protester” which she was not. She was perhaps unarmed… Chris Weber
Get your facts straight. This unarmed woman posed no danger, immediate or otherwise, to the officer who killed her, nor anyone else.
“It doesn’t matter that a heavily politicized FBI found no evidence of an “insurrection”.”
The FBI itself has not said what you claim. Maybe you should wait for the FBI’s statement before you attribute claims to them.
Have you seen any indictment which charges any person present at the 1/6 Capitol protest with insurrection?
You’re serving some pretty thin gruel.
Give it a rest, if Ashli Babbitt was an UNARMED (or armed for that matter) BLACK woman the left would be up in arms, there would still be riots in every big democrat run city across America, more calls to defund the police, the “experts” would be all over the nightly cable shows and news ranting and raving about “systematic racism”.. and Biden would be telling “all Americans” Ashli Babbitt deserves justice.
Chris,
I do believe that Turley’s statement is reasonable on all counts:
“Reasonable people could disagree on the shooting. I fail to see the justified basis under controlling legal standards but I may have the bias of a criminal defense attorney. What I object to is the absence of specificity in the facts and answers to satisfy the standards under cases like Tennessee v. Garner. Instead there is a conspicuous use of conclusory analysis to dismiss the allegations.”
As you may know, I yield to no one for my contempt at professor Turley selling his academic soul to work for Fox News which broadcasts the same disinformation as the other fringe networks Newsmax, OAN and Infowars. Case in point, a Fox reporter the other day described Babbitt as innocently “going through the door” as opposed to forcing herself through a broken window. Despite his fair-minded legal analysis in general, it is disgraceful that Turley would gainfully contribute his services to a network of liars.
No it was NOT an obvious effort to overthrow the government.
If it had been they would have come with guns, and they would have succeeded.
These claims are OBVIOUS stupidity.
It was however an OBVIOUS attempt to thwart YOUR WILL.
Absolutely protesters intended to thwart congress from acting to certify election results.
Whether you like it or not – there is NOTHING improper about anyone desiring, protesting, assembling, even intimidating congress short of actual force, to see their will enacted rather than yours.
There was quite litterally nothing different between the Kavanaugh protests and Jan. 6th – EXCEPT that the powers that be locked SOME of the doors of the capital.
I would further note that at the time – and possibly still a plurality of the american people doubted the results of the election.
You do not seem to grasp that the legitimacy of government comes from the Trust of the people.
Where there is no Trust – there is no legitimate government.
If they sought to “overthrow” an illegitimate government – there is nothing wrong with that.
You conflate holding political views and goals different from yours, publicly expressing those and bringing them to congress forcefully with violent overthrow of government.
This is a stupid and dangerous argument. It is inherently totalitarian and presumes that you will remain in power.
We have seen protests accross the country all summer – these were no less obvious attempts to overthrow the government.
They were overt in demanding that police be defunded. What is govenrment without police ?
Can we arrest every BLM protestor ?
Open your eyes and look to Kabul – that is what an ideologically driven violent overthrow of a government actually looks like.
Beheading women and killing people who stand in your way – that is what terrorism looks like.
Babbit did not “force herself through a broken window” – that statement is atleast as inaccurate as what you attribute to Fox.
She did attempt to go through a broken window, rather than a door, but no FORCE was involved.
I would further note that while no FORCE was involved – the use of force would NOT have been dispositive.
Babbit was not a threat of death or life threatening bodily injury to either the officer or anyone else.
Therefore the use of deadly force against her was NOT justified.
Turley has noted the presence of other officers who were closer and not responding to Babbits actions.
While that is important – it is also important that the Officer that Shot Babbit did so under circumstances where HE possed a threat – not mererly to Babbit, but to those other officers and to protestors other than Babbit.
Babbit was hit in the neck. The officer very nearly missed – hitting either one of the other officers or another protestor.
Even when the police can legitimately fire on someone – they can not fire into a crowd or fire where they might hit others.
Regardless, if you are going to criticise Fox’s use of words – you should take care to eliminate the innaccurate spin from your own.
John say,
“ She did attempt to go through a broken window, rather than a door, but no FORCE was involved.”
Trying to go through a window of an obviously closed door is forcing your way. The door was blockaded for a reason. The window was smashed ks people could force their way into the lobby. No force was involved, except breaking the window and trying to crawl through it. That’s the very definition of FORCED ENTRY.
Babbitt was shot when she was clambering on top of the furniture used to block the door. She was an open target clear of anyone else.
You should look at the video and try to find where these police officers Turley
Mentions are?
They’re all networks of liars. Just depends on which parties potpourri they’re pushin. I read your comment by the way because it was at least reasonably stated. I don’t read the other nonsense, the frothing at the mouth loons who think I actually give a crap what some troll hiding behind a cartoon character has to say. They’ll sit for hours taking every word I say, write their own meanings to it then try to get me to defend the bullsh#$ they just made up for me to respond to. I don’t waste my time on them, and after too many emails in my inbox with their vitriol and endless nonsense, I unsubscribe from the comments and get on with my day. Like I’m doing right now. I am not interested in infantile school grader like insults and blathering from childlike clowns hiding behind cartoon characters and fake names. If they are afraid to put their own names and actual profiles on their own comments, then they obviously don’t mean very much now do they. We have way too many Silence DoGood’s in these online forums these days, and not enough Ben Franklin’s. I only paused long enough to respond because whoever, whatever you are took the time to actually write a reasonable comment, albeit one I don’t concur with as you’re simply pushing one side of a counterfeit coin. I don’t know if your name is really Jeff Silberman or Vladimir Pootin, but what I do know is until people come out from behind the masks and hoods as it virtually were, the insanity will not stop. You’re both lost in a world of spite, hate and cleverly massaged lunacy and worse, lie to yourselves constantly to support your “side” of this counterfeit coin. Go back and read Julius Caesar, I’m sure you have as most in this scholarly blog have, but go back and take another look, and muse on “Divide et impera”.
The problem with this country isn’t republicans or Fox news. The problem isn’t the democrats or CNN or MSNBC. The problem is republicans and democrats and the news media that insists on placating to one “side” or another. We’re lost, that “if we can keep it thing” has disappeared. We can’t. Not like this. A house divided cannot stand and the fools who think a civil war will rectify anything are too far gone to have enough brain cells left to recognize this ain’t 1865 and there isn’t 1 chance in a million that the moment, ….and I mean the moment this country descends into some kind of civil war, that Russia and China will declare the US a destabilized nuclear nation, and they will “tell”, not ask, tell the U.N they are sending in “peacekeepers” to stabilize the country and secure the nuclear weapons pointed at their two nations, based on precedents already set by us. There is no way Vladimir Putin is going to sit back and watch a country with 7500 intercontinental ballistic missiles pointed at him and his friends in Beijing, descend into anarchy. In fact this is probably what his plan has been all along. Destabilize the US, send in peacekeepers, about 3 million thanks to their Chinese military alliance, and secure the nuclear weapons and instill an “interim government”. One that ultimately answers to Moscow.
We are at a crossroads. You people, all you people are letting yourselves be played like a 5 dollar banjo and you’re not seeing the forest through the trees. You have to step out of the trees into a clear area where you can see the forest. Then you’ll be able to gauge the size and dimensions of it.
The problem isn’t the right. And the problem isn’t the left. Nor any particular media organization on either side. The problem is “the left and the right” and the fact that there’s media organizations on either side to begin with. And their street soldiers are the virtual ones now hiding behind virtual “hoods” and spouting hate at each other endlessly, all day long until it blows, like it did on Dec 6. You all played a part. Left too. You’re pushing each other like idiots, and ignoring everything the founders set up so this wouldn’t happen. And worse, you’re ignoring the principles you claim to love.
If you want to make a change, be the change. It takes one, then another, then another. And it starts by people being willing to put their own public names and identities behind their own public comments. Until that happens, it will never change and never end. Ever. And no civil war’s gonna set it right.
Time to come out and shake hands again, and find the common ground, I’m picturing the end of Logan’s Run and maybe Turley as Victor Ustinov, ..although he’ll have to grow a beard.
In a nutshell, (pun semi intended) you guys are like red and black ants in a bottle fighting each other.
Time to stop fighting each other and take a look at who’s shakin the bottle.
Chris,
You have said a mouthful to say the least! I agree with you 110% on the problem of anonymity on this blog, and I have stated so repeatedly. Were this my blog, I would insist that everyone prove and use their actual name. It’s the lack of accountability for the consequences of their rhetoric which permits such irresponsible comments and deliberate trolling. Turley once defended the anonymity of the contributors to this blog on free speech grounds. Not unlike the ability to donate dark money to campaigns anonymously. I disagree with that state of the law as well. People must need to account for not just what they do but what they say.
To my knowledge, there are no serious academics or opinion-makers who comment on the blog. At least known willing to do so by name. That is rather telling. Why do academics of Turley’s standing ignore him? As hard as I search, there are very few interviews with, or articles about, Turley. I would very much like to see him debate someone of his caliber, e.g., Neal Katyal, so that we can learn the limits of Turley’s jurisprudence. Since Turley will not deign to respond to any questions presented here, it is impossible to fully understand his positions because he will not take hard questions.
While I do accept that the Right and Left have much more in common than either would like to admit, I don’t agree that there is a moral equivalence between Fox News, Newsmax, OAN and Infowars on the one hand and the MSM on the other. I would have agreed that Fox and the MSM were opposite sides of the same coin up until Trumpism. Trump’s unabashed lying and the Right’s defiant denying it changed the moral equation. There is no turning back once you openly lie and everyone knows you are lying. The only recourse then is to eliminate those people who call you a liar- either by intimidation or worse. It’s not enough for Trumpists to label the MSM “fake news.” If the MSM is truly “the enemy of the people,” it stands to reason that it will be attacked as a genuine enemy. Trumpism will inexorably lead to some amount of bloodshed until people come to their senses.
Trumpism is a turning point in this country. Trumpism must be marginalized and dismissed much like Q-Anon. Our future depends upon Fox News and the Republican Establishment. Will it continue to support Trump or turn its back on him? Fox has distanced itself from Trump’s Big Lie. It no longer mentions it. Nor does Turley, its faithful employee, ever written the words the “Big Lie!” They pretend it does not exist. Much will depend, however, on the outcomes of the defamation lawsuits by Dominion and Smartmatic. If the Trump lawyers, the PillowGuy, and Fox News are held liable for defamation, then that will discredit the Big Lie once and for all. The Trump dead-enders will reject the court judgments, of course, since they cannot accept the truth. They will attack the justice system as part and parcel of the “Deep State” consistent with their fevered conspiracy theories.
Turley, meanwhile, is in the unenviable position of having hitched himself to a news outfit which may be found responsible for intentionally or recklessly pushing the lie that the election was rigged and stolen. While he cautioned Fox viewers early on not to rush to judgment until the Trump lawyers could prove their uphill battle in court, he has said absolutely nothing to refute Trump’s continuing to lie about the election to this very day despite the fact that there is no evidence of massive voter fraud. Turley’s silence will be his everlasting shame.
This is why its a fools errand to talk to anonymous partisan commenters. They see nothing but your own party-jaded perspective and never beyond. Again I don’t know if Jeff’s real name is Jeff Silberman or Slappy White. What I do know is he doesn’t read what I write, and exactly like his counterparts on the opposite side of this counterfeit coin he (or she, who knows?) is take whatever I write, then rewrite it and in this case claiming he “agrees” with me yet he rewrites what I wrote to make it into some liberal talking point rather than the point I made. He summarizes it with the tired colloquialism; “you said a mouthful” then rewrites everything I wrote claiming we “agree”. We don’t. He says he’d compel bloggers to use their real identities. I said you cannot do that. I agreed with Jonathan Turley, that compelling people to use their real names is a violation of freedom of speech. Because it means those who fear some form of retribution, penalty or retaliation for their words may not feel free to speak up. Allowing anonymous free speech is as critical to freedom of speech as is not censoring it. And I made that clear. But the anonymous poster using the name Jeff Silberman changed it to his ideology that we should force people to use their real names. He entirely misses the point.
Which is typical for liberal posters and trolls as they are actively pushing censorship, something so foreign to us as a people as to make the purveyor’s of unrecognizable to any thinking American. We don’t “censor” in America. We tolerate speech we don’t agree with. We tolerate speech we know to be patently false. Newspapers like the National Enquirer and the “Tattler” have been around for half a century or more spreading nonsense stories about aliens and Bigfoot. Because in America, you can saw what you want, and the beauty is you can read what you want. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. Easy peasy. But not anymore. Now these new liberal and progressives who grew up apparently oblivious to our Constitutional rights, are handing them away for their inane sense of “safety”, which is about as pathetic as Trump rallying a crowd of boneheads to smash into the capitol building to try to stop the vote so he can remain President, which is exactly what happened and now we have an entire group of conservatives saying “nuh uh we didn’t do nuthin we were just playin…”.
I tell you its a mad world. A mad mad mad world, and its a sad and disturbing place to be in the middle of it being actually “awake” and seeing what your countrymen are doing to each other, to themselves, and to our Constitution.
No you can’t censor freedom of speech, compel people to post their identities prior to speaking online and remove protections that separate this country from so many others and define who we are.
And no you cannot storm the capitol, smash the windows, beat and assault police officers and then claim it was just a protest or riot. It was an attempt to capture members of congress and hold them, so Trump could walk down and declare himself leader. That’s what it was, and all the doubletalk and blather in here or the courts won’t change the reality of what those people did, and what you people are doing in lying to defend it. God saw it. God sees you. And truth doesn’t’ change based on your ability to doubletalk and tap dance in a blog or a court document and accountability for these lies and sedition will come in this life or in the life to come, but it will come. You can lie to us, you can lie to each other, and you can even lie to yourselves. But you can’t lie to God. He saw it too.
You’re both lying to yourselves, one side insulting me and calling me filthy names and infantile nonsense like grade school children on a playground.
The other side trying to grease my palm and infest my words with their desire to control what people say and think.
And I’m just standing all alone, standing there shouting to a canyon echo, …hellooooooooooo, …….is anybody out therrrrreee….. but nothing ever comes back.
I wonder if there’s any of us still left.
the capital is not private property. It is more than just a PUBLIC building, it is the seat of government.
It is a historic public forum, it is the epitemy of where one goes to excericise their right to free speech, political protest, assembly and to petition government.
It can not be morally or constitutionally locked while congress is in session – that is a prior restraint on our right to free speech, to assemble, and to petition government.
Can you identify a specific other instance in which the capital was locked while in session ?
It was not locked for Kavanaugh protests ?
YOU note it was “our nations capital” – NOT “Your capital” – OURS – and that includes Alishi Babbit.
She and all the rest had a legitimate right to be there to protest what congress was doing.
Just as YOU have the right to be there and protest when congress seeks to do something you do not like.
John say,
“ It can not be morally or constitutionally locked while congress is in session – that is a prior restraint on our right to free speech, to assemble, and to petition government.”
There’s no actual constitutional requirement that congress be open to all for every function of congress.
You can’t just barge in on a closed door committee meeting, you can’t just meander wherever you want while visiting congress. There ARE rules still. The public has access to sessions of Congress in the galleries provided for the public. That doesn’t mean you can yell and protest from the gallery without being escorted out by security.
When you have mobs of people assembling outside security takes precedent. People can still protest outside the building by being as loud as they want. Storming the building to prevent a legitimate government function is not a protest.
“ Can you identify a specific other instance in which the capital was locked while in session ?”
In the days after 9/11 congress was locked down while it was in session. The public was not allowed in.
Your right to free speech or assembly is not an excuse to commit a crime such as trespassing on government property when there is a security issue.
Breaking windows and breaking down doors is not protected free speech either.
“ She and all the rest had a legitimate right to be there to protest what congress was doing.”
No they didn’t. It wasn’t a protest. It was seditious intent. If we are do use your own logic BLM protesters should have been allowed to match up the steps to the White House and demand Trump answer to them. After all it is the people’s house isn’t it?
OUR house. It belongs to us.
Intelligent article. Thank you. Babbitts murder was disgusting. She was mixed with a group of clowns who encouraged her to climb through the doors window. If I’m not mistaken one of them boosted her up. Sickening this woman who fought for the US took this shot from an incompetent.
Sickening that a veteran would become such a traitor.
Yet plenty of veterans are traitors, just look at the democrat party
Let me first point out that grammar is not your mommy’s mommie.
Next, if Babbitt was, as you unquestionably imply, murdered, then accordingly “the group of clowns who encouraged her to climb through the doors window” (sic); and particularly (if you’re “not mistaken”) the clown who “…boosted her up.” are complicit in that “disgusting murder”.
Should have started shooting when the first one barged through the door.
Message to Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch: Request any and all public records from DOJ regarding the unexplained killing of this unarmed USAF veteran..