According to a new report by The Washington Post, the National Archives had to retrieve a large number of boxes from Mar-a-Lago that were unlawfully removed by President Trump or his staff upon leaving the White House. There are strict laws on the preservation of presidential documents, laws that President Trump was repeatedly accused of flaunting during his presidency. However, the most serious element of this latest allegation is that the removed material included clearly marked classified information, including some at the Top Secret level.
We still do not have confirmation of the allegation from the National Archives but Trump himself acknowledged that boxes were removed and called the exchange friendly and routine. There are often conflicts over what material can be removed by departing presidents, though the reports are suggesting that this conflict was more serious in light of the status of the documents.
The allegation that Trump removed classified information is a potential criminal violation. It is also highly ironic given Trump’s long use of “Lock Her Up” to refer to Hillary Clinton’s use of a private server for official and classified material.
While the Presidential Records Act requires the preservation of such documents (and the removal was likely in violation of that law), it is relatively weak on enforcement elements. As we have previously discussed, presidents have long chaffed at both the limitations or disclosures imposed by the Act. I previously wrote about these disputes in a law review article with Cornell. Jonathan Turley, Presidential Records and Popular Government: The Convergence of Constitutional and Property Theory in Claims of Control and Ownership of Presidential Records 88 Cornell Law Review 651-732 (2003).
The 1978 law requires that any memos, letters, emails and other documents related to the president’s duties be preserved for retention by the National Archives and Records Administration at the end of an administration. Trump was previously warned about the law after he reportedly tore up some documents, though he recently denied reports that he literally flushed some documents down a White House toilet.
There are some criminal provisions that can apply to such cases, though such application to a former president would be unprecedented. The Section 1361 states that anyone who “willfully injures or commits any depredation against any property of the United States” can be given a fine or up to one year imprisonment if convicted. The Section 2071 states that anyone who “willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates or destroys … any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited … in any public office” can be fined or face up to three years in prison if convicted.
Again, those laws have never be used against a former president.
The allegation of the removal of classified material can trigger other laws barring the removal of such material without authorization and without proper protections. Those laws were raised with regard to former FBI Director James Comey removing FBI material and then leaking information to the press. Comey clearly violated federal law but was not prosecuted.
In the case of President Bill Clinton’s former national security adviser Sandy Berger, he stuffed classified material in his socks to remove them from the archives. General David Petraeus was accused of giving access to classified information to his alleged lover but was also given no jail time on a misdemeanor.
Controversies like the one is less likely that this would be treated as a criminal matter, though we still do not know key facts. Moreover, one would expect a search warrant to be issued if the Justice Department was treating this as a criminal investigation. Once classified material is found, they would have a basis for demanding a broader search of areas and computers.
Nevertheless, this remains a serious allegation leveled against the former president. You cannot be part of the “Lock Her Up” crowd and immediately pivot to “Let Him Go” when a similar allegation is raised against the former president. That does not mean that the allegations are true, but they should be confirmed.
There are a host of violations that may apply in such a case from the unauthorized removal to the possible possession of classified material by unauthorized parties to the storage of such material in an unauthorized location.
Ironically, before leaving office, Trump had the ultimate declassification authority. However, if the material was still top secret when he returned to his status as a private citizens, he may have tripped the wire on some of these laws. I do not know of any authority for a former president to retain classified material. Former presidents have access to such documents at the National Archives.
This should not be a difficult story for the government to confirm. Either some of the documents were marked classified or they were not. The question then becomes a question of why those documents were included in these boxes and the specific knowledge or involvement of the former president.
If others can use double-standards, then it’s only fair that you can, too. If not, then that would be a double-standard.
Yes, Article 5 requires NATO members to help other members, but there is nothing in the NATO charter that forbids NATO from helping non-NATO countries, at their own discretion if they so desire, if they believe it is the right thing to do.
“You cannot be part of the “Lock Her Up” crowd and immediately pivot to “Let Him Go” when a similar allegation is raised against the former president.”
Why not? I don’t follow the logic.
The “Lock Her Up” crowd wanted Hillary prosecuted because she indisputably violated the law by setting up a secret unsecure server to receive classified information – some of it deemed to be Top Secret – and so she could avoid Congressional oversight. Despite clear violations of laws around handling classified information, neither she nor Comey were prosecuted.
That decision to not prosecute established the standard that mishandling classified information would not be prosecuted. So how do you square it rationally and fairly that Hillary and Comey were not prosecuted but Trump should be? It doesn’t make sense to me. Not if laws are applied equally.
Only if Hillary and Comey had been prosecuted would the “Let Him Go” crowd not have a leg to stand on. But that is not the fact pattern.
US law does not recognize the concept that if someone is not prosecuted for a particular crime then it creates a standard that others can not be prosecuted.
I understand the concept of prosecutorial discretion. I also understand the concept of fairness. Make the fairness case for prosecuting Trump but not prosecuting Hillary and Comey for engaging in substantially similar conduct.
Trump was an idiot for not prosecuting his political enemies if they committed legitimate crimes. The Ds are wimps and will likely make the same mistake.
Sammy says:
“Trump was an idiot for not prosecuting his political enemies if they committed legitimate crimes.”
Thankfully, it was not up to Trump! It was up to the DOJ. And Sessions and Barr saw fit not to prosecute. You don’t think they would have prosecuted Trump’s political enemies had there been good cases with Trump breathing down their necks?
That is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans follow the rule of law while Democrats do not. Garland is willing to intimidate mothers protecting the children by calling them terrorists and involving the FBI.
This current scandal with Trump and the bulk of the Republican establishment supporting the Jan 6 attempted coup are just two examples of the Republicans not giving a shit about the rule of law.
ATS, you don’t know the rule of law, much less what a coup is. You are an opportunist. The truth is something you seldom deal with.
This was not an insurrection. Instead, it became a power grab from the left, hoping to intimidate those that disagree on policy.
Trump himself said he was trying to overturn the election. That is a coup.
What a Stupid and ignorant comment. You should have left that comment to your pretend friend ATS. Each time you try a new alias, you screw it up. Why don’t you try to maintain an alias with some semblance of intelligence and honesty?
Sammy, check with ATS to see if he agrees with you.
14th amendment, equal protections guarantee do not apply to Republicans
Lincoln taught America to obey the laws it likes, and to disobey the laws it doesn’t like.
Lincoln willfully and deliberately violated multiple Articles of the Constitution.
Lincoln willfully and deliberately violated the Naturalization Act of 1802.
Ditto for Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson and Obama – high criminals one and all.
By no binding custom or practice, memorandum, encyclical or imagined compulsory act, are Americans compelled to observe any facet or aspect of the 14th Amendment (or the 13th or 15th), which persists as extraneous, still illegitimate, ratified-for-the-benefit-of-foreigners-and-illegal aliens, antithetical, Constitution-“injuring,” and improperly ratified under the duress of brutal post-war military occupation with a gun to America’s head.
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“Equal protections” and “rights and freedoms” are redundant phrases.
Citizens enjoy the rights, freedoms, privileges and immunities of the Constitution – period.
What causes fear in the beneficiaries of “equal protections” is their lack of legitimacy of citizenship (being invaders and illegal aliens) since many must have been compassionately repatriated, aka deported, by law in 1863, while others criminally violated international borders.
“Equal protections” are as frivolous, extraneous, adventitious and bereft of logical force or weight as “hate crime” laws.
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“…amendments…as will not injure the Constitution,…”
“And if there are amendments desired, of such a nature as will not injure the constitution, and they can be ingrafted so as to give satisfaction to the doubting part of our fellow citizens; the friends of the federal government will evince that spirit of deference and concession for which they have hitherto been distinguished.”
– James Madison, Proposed Amendments to the Constitution, June 8, 1789
“Lincoln willfully and deliberately violated the Naturalization Act of 1802.”
George, how did Lincoln violate the Naturalization Act of 1802?
I had a friend that took weather maps produced from the NWS out of a library, they were going to be thrown in the trash. He was tried and convicted of a felony for taking weather maps. Weather maps. Most of the readers here have already dismissed any.crimes trump may have committed as just another nothing burger. Our country is I sad shape because we let politicians get away with way too many crimes. And yes, the dems are filled with criminals as well. So all you trump lovers, be true to yourselves and admit that trump only cares about trump, not his kids, not anybody, not the country, only trump. He does not care about you. Yes, lock him up.
I had a friend that took weather maps produced from the NWS out of a library, they were going to be thrown in the trash. He was tried and convicted of a felony for taking weather maps.
He was tried and convicted of stealing property that did no belong to him.
The Dems might be doing the country, and the Republican party, a favor by pushing yet another “get Trump” agenda. Personally, although I want to see the Republicans sweep Congress in 2022 and elect a president in 2024, I’d prefer that president not be Trump. He was useful the first time around — he shook up the establishment and shed light on the illegal wars in the Mideast. But now he seems stuck in 2020 and a personal vengeance agenda, and we need a president who will move forward, not backward. We also need some sanity in Congress and the WH, which means shifting course away from the divisive racialization of American culture, education and politics, and getting back to standards — the same standards for all — and laws, especially in the streets, where crime is killing not just people, but entire cities. Democrats have a twisted sense of “racial justice,” but I’m pretty sure it shouldn’t mean not prosecuting criminals because of their skin color. Democrats continue to demand defunding the police and abolishing prisons — and as long as they remain tone-deaf, the upcoming elections are for the Republicans to lose. Let’s hope they don’t blow it by infighting.
“he shook up the establishment and shed light on the illegal wars in the Mideast.” Shook up the establishment? A bit. Shed light…? What drugs have you been taking? He may have railed against was when he ran but as president, he was just another idiot in a long line of idiots that loves to use the military (his generals as he so often said), to cause death and destruction. It was Biden that finally said enough and brought the troops home. Much to the despair of all red blooded hate filled Americans that wanted to see more death and destruction.
You are saying we need to get back to standards and laws as a reason to ignore laws that Trump broke.
Also, for those not in tune with R dog whistles, when he says “especially in the streets”, he means black people. He is arguing that we need to ignore white collar crimes by whites to focus on crimes by blacks.
???????
Giocon says:
“But now he [Trump] seems stuck in 2020 and a personal vengeance agenda, and we need a president who will move forward, not backward.”
Throwing Trump under the bus are we now? Welcome to our side! It took you long enough, but we’ll take it!
How secure were these TS documents? Beyond the potential for sensitive documents to get in the wrong hands, it’s difficult to get too excited about this, because a former president is a human vault of the most sensitive information on the planet. Joe Biden is already the exception.
Just think of all the Treason committed by Biden/Dems/Rinos when they left 85 billion$$$ in our military equipment to the Talban.
And of course those same traitors will come up with anything they can against Trump even if the have to plant it around him.
You see? Denial? Trump said it:
I can shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any votes.
Trumpism is a cult for some.
“ because a former president is a human vault of the most sensitive information on the planet.”
Except Trump who loves to shoot his mouth off constantly. Can’t trust a former president who constantly backstabs his associates or employees.
will this be pursued before or after every person participating in the Russian Hoax is jailed…from Hillary, Obama, DOJ/FBI, Schiff, Nadler, Pelosi…down?
Until the Biden Klan and Pelosi Klan are jailed for their many crimes…we Know the DOJ is 100% Corrupt
When Joe Biden arrived they shook hands, with Hunter introducing them: This is Tony, Dad, the individual I told you about that’s helping us with the business that we’re working on with the Chinese.’
There is a lot of hearsay going on with this story right now, I’m going to wait for all the facts and everyone else should do the same.
I agree with you, but tell that to the “Lock her up” MAGA/Q-Anon crowd!
Witherspoon, a fair observation.
Let’s see here….when ever was a Court Case made over such things…..did not the illustrious FBI Director Jame Come tell us there was no problem with contemporary of Trump destroying documents under Subpoena containing Classified documents held on an unsecured illegal Server?
If that is not a crime….then certainly this isn’t as the the documents were returned to government control.
Also…remember the President is the final adjudicator of ALL Classified Material in the entire United States Government…..and if those documents went south while he was still President….then there certainly is no crime.
This time I shall differ with the Professor.
One thing is for sure….the Democrats (that means the media as being an included subset) shall milk this for as much as they can get out of it…..all the wihile making like Cats covering Poop re Hillary, Sandy Burger, and some other notable Democrats.
Ralph says:
“This time I shall differ with the Professor.”
You had better get used to it because it won’t be the last time as Trump faces civil and criminal accountability.
Sure, you Trumpists have used Turley to your advantage up to now, but you will turn on him, chew him up and spit him out when he does not delegitimize the prosecution of Trump. He’ll never say “witch-hunt” no matter what. You do realize that?
Here’s where he made a mistake, he should have given all the material to Hillary she certainly knows how to handle important documents.
“You cannot be part of the “Lock Her Up” crowd and immediately pivot to “Let Him Go” when a similar allegation is raised against the former president.”
Turley obviously doesn’t know his followers. I was waiting to see if Turley dismissed the allegations as nothing to see here. He did acknowledge it was a serious violation while inserting no President has been prosecuted for removing classified and top-secret documents before. That might be because no President had done it before, should we ignore every law the first time someone violates it? I don’t want to get sidetracked here, when Trump Corporation is found guilty of civil fraud most of you will excuse it. When Trump is found criminally guilty in Georgia for attempting to alter the election, you will dispute it. Whatever source reports any of his crimes, you will reject it. Mar-a-Lago is the new Guyana for those old enough to remember Jim Jones.
enigmainblackcom: So, you were “waiting to see if Turley dismissed the allegations as nothing to see here” — but, alas, your crystal ball, and your silly baseless assumptions failed. But that doesn’t stop the intrepid bigot from assuming that “most of” us will support any illegal acts Trump may be convicted of. Don’t you bigots ever get tired of being wrong?
Read the comments, I’m not wrong.
did they lock her up?
She testified for 11 hours before Congress and they couldn’t find wrongdoing.
WaPo and NYT, the propaganda arm of the DNC, are without a doubt afraid of Trump running again in 2024 and are determined to print any and all rumors that may possibly lead to disqualifying the former president as a candidate. One would think he’s already disqualified on the basis of his performance in office, but Dems and the media obviously think otherwise. Their continued obsession indicates a collective mental health problem. Perhaps Katie Couric almost had it right when she told Bill Maher, “And the question is how are we going to really almost deprogram these people.”
Will be curious to see if the DOJ pursues some sort of action against Trump in view of the history you described.. My best guess is no, but nothing they do would surprise me. Selective prosecution is never a good thing
What is your feeling about selective non-prosecutions? The DOJ appears to be scared to death to prosecute Trump, as they were Nixon and Clinton. Maybe not wanting to appear to be a banana republic turns you into one?
Maybe not wanting to appear to be a banana republic turns you into one?
That ship left port a long time ago, Enigma. From Earl Warren’s tenure at SCOTUS forward, the United States has been careening towards the trajectory of the Roman Empire’s collapse.
Immorality plagued the Roman Empire towards its end. It was the nascent Christian Church that stood athwart the excesses of the Roman Empire, e.g. pederasty. The Church today in America is practically irrelevant, because the members have chosen “foreign gods” (self-deification, “social media”). With Earl Warren’s SCOTUS leadership, America’s fragile “consensus” started to come apart, as Father John Courtney Murray, SJ argued in his classic book published in 1960, “We Hold These Truths: Catholic Reflections on the American Proposition”, Sheed & Ward. https://library.georgetown.edu/woodstock/Murray/whtt_index
The dismantling of the fibers of “E Pluribus Unum” began in earnest in the 1940s, as Fr. Murray chronicled. There is no longer a consensus in America about anything.
There exists a loss of common language, destruction of the extended and nuclear family as Daniel Moynihan articulated initially about Blacks in the 1960s but now applies to Whites, Planned Barrenhood’s abortion machinery (Roman Empire fertility rate plummeted), welfare state (see Roman poet Juvenal indictment of politicians, “bread and circuses” quip). Violent entertainment has saturated our culture (Roman Empire’s Coliseum comes to mind), catastrophic national debt and irrelevancy of currency (just like the Roman Empire), self-promoting narcissistic, divisive politics (Matt Taibbi’s “Hate Inc” wrote about this), and open borders disintegrating our national boundaries. The Roman Empire had all of these dynamics towards their end, and so does the United States today.
The Catholic Church’s Pope Leo the Great in 452 AD met with Attila to convince him not to plunder Rome. Pope Leo bought time for Rome for 2 decades. Attila’s trusted advisor, barbarian Odoacer, of Germanic descent, joined the Roman army, rose through the ranks, and attacked Rome on Sept 4, 476 AD, the date ascribed to the fall of the Roman Empire. Although Odoacer was a barbarian under Attila, his joining the Roman army denotes that the fall of the Roman Empire was an inside job, just like today (FBI, DOJ, CIA, legacy media, Clinton, George H W Bush, George W. Bush, Obama, Newt Gingrich, Nancy Pelosi, Trump, etc).
It is not a matter of whether our country is falling, Enigma. We have been in free fall for decades. It is only a matter of the date, as Thomas Sowell often argues.
“It was the nascent Christian Church that stood athwart the excesses of the Roman Empire . . .”
How’d those next 1,000 years work out?
Your faith is not very strong, Estovir. Remember history and the influence Christianity has had on the world
“Christianity is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. It is the world’s largest religion, with about 2.5 billion followers. Its adherents, known as Christians, make up a majority of the population in 157 countries and territories, and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, whose coming as the messiah was prophesied in the Hebrew Bible (called the Old Testament in Christianity) and chronicled in the New Testament”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity
Trump does his own packing. Riiiiiggghhhht.
Us usual. President Trump is not a DC swamp rat. He is not attuned to the approved ‘work arounds”
When does the Presidential Library take possession? I think there is some scuffle amongst historians that cant get the eyes on Obama’s papers because his library has possession is working on a schedule to release over time.
Like most DC stuff. all is legal if you use the proper number of cut outs
If Trump’s not a DC swamp rat: Why is Julian Assange still rotting in prison? And why is Snowden (who immensely helped Trump win) still wanted for felony charges?
https://www.newsweek.com/brian-kilmeade-learn-lose-donald-trump-fox-1667391
Brian Kilmeade speaks truth Re. Trump the liar, painful to Trumpists.
“Trump the liar”
Your citation has nothing to do with Trump being a liar. If hyperbole is your desired result, that describes who you are. Hyperbole is ephemeral.
“When the president does it, it’s not illegal”. RMN
C.mon Turley! All I needed to see was that the “source” was the Washington Post and the credibility meter hit zero. Your credibility goes right out the window citing that “source”.
You know there’s no source you would accept, don’t you?
This is another hit JOB on Trump by the DEM’s and others, simply they are trying to get TRUMP for they fear him and 2024. They seem to drag these stories out when Biden and DEM’s are under extreme pressure and bad news such as Inflation/Ukraine and etc. This will be not the last, we will see more until the DEM’s are defeated, starting NOV 2022, DEM’s lose they will forget TRUMP and go after each other the DEM’s are in a panic, the polls and their own polls show they are in for a Huge Loss of their own making. Its going to get worse.
What did I tell you, Turley, the lying Trumpists could not care less what you think exposes Trump to criminal liability. Nice try.
Al Capone was brought down on tax evasion, and Trump will be brought down on mishandling classified materials.
Turley, you are barking up the wrong tree. The Trumpists will say it’s much ado about nothing or think of some other excuse for Trump. Probably they will rely upon Trump’s old favorite “witch-hunt.”