In a case reminiscent of the two New York lawyers convicted of firebombing a police vehicle, a lawyer for the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) was arrested for possible domestic terrorism in targeting a police training center in Atlanta. Thomas Webb Jurgens was among 23 suspected domestic terrorists in an attack on the site for a planned $90 million training complex called “Cop City” by protesters.
Unlike the cases of Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman, it is not clear what the evidence is against Jurgens beyond his being present at the scene. The SPLC insists that he was present “as a legal observer on behalf of the National Lawyers Guild (NLG).”
I have represented such observers with the NLG (as well as journalists) who have been arrested at such protests. It is plausible that he was there for that function. The question is whether he undertook any violent action himself or did more than observe. These cases can often be knocked down to mere trespass or other lesser charges after arraignments or preliminary hearings.
He is one of 23 suspected domestic terrorists released by the Atlanta Police Department on Monday. The court will have to establish if there is particularized evidence against these individuals or whether they were scooped up at the scene en masse. The police report states:
“On March 5, 2023, a group of violent agitators used the cover of a peaceful protest of the proposed Atlanta Public Safety Training Center to conduct a coordinated attack on construction equipment and police officers. They changed into black clothing and entered the construction area and began to throw large rocks, bricks, Molotov cocktails, and fireworks at police officers.”
The SPLC bills itself as a “catalyst for racial justice in the South and beyond, working in partnership with communities to dismantle white supremacy, strengthen intersectional movements, and advance the human rights of all people.” It has a less redeeming history when it comes to free speech rights.
The SPLC has long been criticized for targeting conservative and religious groups. Ironically, given its objections to the charge against Jurgens, it has long been accused of loosely applying the label of “hate group” to organizations with opposing viewpoints. For example, the Family Research Council was labeled a “hate group.”
No doubt he will get the J6 treatment.
Hey Svelaz, please explain to us how your first and only instinct is to defend the people attack police equipment and facilities? Why the need to defend these people? Are they not kind of insurectiony? Is attacking the police ok? If so then is it ok to attack the FBI? How about attacking courthouses?
What is the mindset that rushes to defend violence if it is on the left? No Svelaz, don’t play whataboutism and ask me why I defend the Jan 6 guys because I don’t. Anyone that broke into the Capital or destroyed any property needs to be punished. There, now can you say that? What a lame Democrat operartive you are.
Hey everyone, let’s call Svelaz Ray Epps! Evry time Svelaz comments just think…Ray Epps says what.
Hullbobby, first of all lying doesn’t suit you. I wasn’t defending the violence. If you actually used your brain and read more carefully. You would realize I’m just pointing out the fact that everyone is assuming they are ANTIFA. All I’m doin is correcting the misconception.
Pay attention Hullbobby. You’re making arguments about things I haven’t said. It’s embarrassing to watch you make a fool of yourself.
Svelaz (Ray Epps), of course your first instinct was to argue some foolish theory about whether they were ANTIFA or not, but of course there isn’t an ounce of outrage at the violence because it is of the left. Face it loser, you will defend firebombing police.
When our founding fathers protected, in the First Amendment, “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances,” I wonder if they anticipated the growing trend of paying outside “hired” actors to beef up the crowd and make it more formidable.Take a good look at the mug shots of those arrested…do they look like sincere protesters or do they look like opportunists eager to work off their youthful adrenaline and earn some $$$$ doing so?
“Only two of those charged are from Georgia; the rest are from other states, including Massachusetts, New York, Maine, Arizona, Tennessee and Louisiana, among others. Another two are from outside the U.S.: one is from Canada, and another is from France.”
.
(I meant agitators, not actors. Sorry.)
It would appear that the SPLC has morphed into the enemy it was pursuing. Julian Bond was the co-founder of the SPLC and served as its president for nearly a decade after its founding. He was among the first African-American state legislators elected in Georgia since Reconstruction. It required a Supreme Court decision to get him seated. While fiery and very active, he also had the propensity to be truthful. He served nearly a decade in the House and another Decade in the State Senate) It really should have been him who was elected to the US Congress instead of John Lewis. Julian Bond was supported heavily by the African-American populace of the 5th congressional district (where I had lived) but Lewis carried a smaller group and especially the white liberals of the Buckhead area (which now has been trying to secede from Atlanta for years). I think he would turn over in his grave to see what the SPLC has become. Having grown up in Atlanta through the 1950’s-1970’s and visited there yearly through 1987, I was well aware of his accomplishments and admired what he had become.
Now you could almost call the SPLC a financial hub for extreme activism (terrorism?) I suppose it’s all in the eye of the beholder)
As far as decrying business being involved in the training center, look at what business is doing in Chicago, New York City, Portland, Seattle, New Orleans and others when law enforcement is neglected. Austin may soon follow. Business will leave and take their jobs with them.
The SPLC was once a decent organization.
It has been corrupt for years.
If you are familiar with recent history – not only has it been politicized, but it was scamming donors for millions.
Democrats Sturmabteilung ….marching for Fascism. The use of government, education, healthcare, tech, banking, media, law enforcement, businesses…to destroy opponents.
We need to TAKE AWAY Their money and centralized power
-Cut 50% of Fed gov
-Move 75% of DC to Heartland
-Remove entire leadership of DOJ, IRS and FBI
-5% tax Gross wall street trans & money goes offshore
-Tax all non-profits anyone gets $100k
-Ban fed aid/loans cities & college
-Ban public unions $ politics, only voters can fund politics
-Remove tax credits renewables, affordable housing, etc
Here’s what happened,
“The video starts off with a couple of law enforcement officers near equipment on the site with a horde of people just beyond a fence, mostly wearing black and black masks. The horde of protesters began to move toward the fence and officers stepped back before walking out of frame.
Once the officers left the frame, several other officers and a police SUV were seen fleeing the fenced-in area before closing it off. As the officers fled, the horde was seen rushing the future public safety facility.
The horde started throwing fireworks and rocks at the officers, who were inside a separate fenced in area, which the rioters could not reach because they, too, were fenced in with the equipment. Rioters could be seen throwing rocks and fireworks over the fence.
This facility has been the focus of a long running dispute with residents of Atlanta.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/atlanta-cop-city-protest-quickly-turns-violent-fiery-video-shows
Svelaz, who is still crying over Jan 6, has no issue with any other riot that is of the left. 2020 saw many, many riots, but only one wasn’t “peaceful”.
Hullbobby, you’re desperate to make an argument I haven’t made.
John doesn’t like mind readers. Be careful.
Of counrse others are going to make arguments you have not made – they are not you.
Hullboby is free to make his own arguments.
Regardless, did he misrepresent your position ?
If so how ?
You certainly still appear to be whigged out over J6.
Regardless, those on the left argument that Tucker is “cherry picking” are correct – it is highly unlikely that Fox has reveiwed all 41,000 hours of video.
Just as the J6 committee and the Trump impeachnment committee and the MSM cherry picked the video they showed.
I would prefer that MacCarthy just made is all Public.
Pelosi should have done the same.
DOJ should have done that too – to avoid the likelyhood they are going to lose cases on appeal for Brady violations.
I beleive Brady is one of few grounds for an appeal of even a plea bargain.
Regardless, in the long run between Tucker, J6 comittee, J6 defendants, …. Those who actually care will get closer to a true picture of J6.
We will see where that lands us.
But there has been pretty good evidence for a long time that the final picture will be closer to “almost entirely peaceful” – than “insurection”.
The left MSM has overplayed their hand again. They are undermining their credibility.
I am actually disappointed in Turley’s editorial. He gives far to much credit to DOJ, judges, …. and presumes far too much of what has been claimed is true.
While he is correct that the so called Qanon Shaman was over charged and over sentenced.
The current evidence strongly suggests he is entirely innocent.
While it is not likely that Everyone at J6 is completely innocent. It is likely that the vast majority were.
The trespassing claim is out the window for everyone who was let in the building by the CP – that is probably 98% of people.
The interfering with an official proceding charge is bogus and never should have been raised. Either the law is an overboard violation of the first amendment or the J6 application of the law is overbroad. Protesting is not ever a crime.
What increasingly appears to be the case is:
The flimsy barriers in front of the capitol were moved by federal agents – we now know from CP body cam video that large numbers of federal agents were at J6, We know they were embedded in the crowd, and because of the CP body cams we now know how to identify them – they are wearing a colored wristband, and they have red tape arround the muzzle their firearms.
That also means we know there were LOTS of ARMED Federal agents at J6 – yet only the CP felt it necescary to murder anyone.
All federal agents must be identified and they must be forced to testify under oath.
And once again a “right wing conspiracy theory proved true”
Revolver was first to run the story regarding Federal Agents. They have been continuing to do an excellent job.
Where is the rest of the media ?
Next – while we do not know for certain that Ray Epps was an FBI informant/agent. We do now know that he lied under oath to the J6 committee,
That he was at the protest atleast 30 min longer than he testified, And that during that time he trew a Sign at a CP officer.
He must be charged, and to the extent possible the truth of his involvement must be brought to light.
Neither I nor anyone else has PROVEN that Epps is a federal agent – though protestors were aware that he was inciting right and identified him as a FED. Regardless, he is one person that we KNOW has lied about his involvement.
AND he has been known to be involved since day one – and yet he has not been arrested and was not even questioned for over a year.
It strongly appears Epps is being protected by the government. And that means the probability he is an agent/informer is high.
And that means his actions constitute entrapment – it is illegal for law enforcement to push people to commit crimes.
Next the main capitol doors – like those at the Supreme court are monstrously large and can not be opened from the outside.
We have KNOWN for some time that the CP opened them and ushered people in.
We now know that nearly all protestors on entering were quiet and peaceful and followed the direction of the CP inside the capitol.
We know that the Evacuation of the Capitol was a choice of Leadership – not something forced on them by protestors.
And that again with few exceptions the behavior of protestors inside the capitol was peaceful.
Those people who broke windows – should be charged. Those people who stole things – should be charged.
Though all these are petty charges.
Those people who actually attacked police – should be charged.
Putting your hand on the wrist of a CP officer who shoves another protestor – is NOT an attack on a police officer.
At the same time Officer Byrd should be charged with manslaughter.
As should the officer that kills Rose Boyton.
Carlson appears to be busy disproving lots of claims that were long ago Debunked – such as that Officer Sicknick was harmed.
Those were disproven long ago – and yet some on the left continue to repeat them. Some Leading Democrats have claimed Sicknick was killed at the Capitol within the past week.
When you lie long after something has been disproven – no one should believe you. about anything.
Looking deeply into J6 is absolutely Critical – while I rarely watch Carlson and have seen the clips elsewhere, I have no complaints about Carlson. Except that providing the Video to Carlson is NOT the means to address this.
It needs made public – entirely. Let all the media, let the left and right crowdsource going through it all.
Let everyone “cherry pick” what they want to feature.
Unlike those on the left – I actually trust people to sort this out, and get it mostly right.
I expect them to be able to compare and contrast Antifa and BLM actions – riots, crimes – with what occurred on J6.
It is critical to fully grasp J6 – to know whether it lives up to left wing nut claims.
It is critical to figure out how to allow J6 like protests – at the Capitol – at Capitol’s accross the country – by anyone who wishes to protest.
While maintaining order.
There must be no more “lockdowns” – not of business, not of the capitol. The Business of Government MUST be conducted in public and subject to public protest. Axe MAn and those Kavanaugh protestors that actually committed crimes – should be prosecuted – as should those on J6 who committed actual crimes. Crimes – stealing. assault, destorying property, not protesting. Not petitioning government.
When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
https://youtu.be/fm3nQPOWycI
And your argument is ?
cra
There were no “masked hordes” at January 6.
There were no “Firecrackers, cherry bombs or molatov cocktails” at Jan 6.
Those arrested – including the SPLC lawyer – Were 95% from out of town, out of state.
The facility is NOT the focus of a dispute with residents of Atlanta.
All the action involved in this facility has been Antifa actors – again almost entirely from out of state.
an
The purpose of this facility is to better train police – something those on the left claim they want.
We have listened to you whine and wheezy an sell a fake narative regarding J6.
This, like events in portland, an Kenosha, and the other “mostly peaceful” BLM/Antifa riots is far more violent than J6.
Absolutely – every single person arrested in Atlanta should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
They should receive fair trials – where the defense is provided with ALL the evidence – including exculpatory evidence.
In other words they should get the Due Proccess that None of the J6 defendants have gotten.
I expect that following the actual requirements of the law – those arrested as well as other as of yet unarrested conspirators will in most cases be convicted. At which time they should be sentenced comensurate with their actual actions.
In otherwords they should not get the egregious vindictive political punishment sentences that J6 protestors have so far.
“In other words they should get the Due Proccess that None of the J6 defendants have gotten.”
They did get due process, all of them. The problem for them is that a lot of them stupidly incriminated themselves by posting selfies and videos committing crimes and saying things that totally incriminated their actions.
Many were held without bail because judges have that discretion. Being held in jail prior to their preliminary hearing is part of due process. All of them had representation and the majority were found guilty because the evidence against them, their own words and actions recorded on videos, made it very hard to claim innocence.
“In otherwords they should not get the egregious vindictive political punishment sentences that J6 protestors have so far.”
Their punishments were according to the law. Those charged with sedition and assault on a law enforcement officer clearly had overwhelming evidence against them. Their punishment wasn’t vindictive. It was appropriate to their crimes.
They did get due process, all of them.
Prosecution refusing to provide exculpatory evidence is not due process. It is a specific violation of due process. It is the Govt railroading innocents.
“They did get due process, all of them.”
Ignorance.
Learn the difference between due process and rule of law. Add to it the shoe on the other foot.
SM
“They did get due process, all of them. ”
Obviously false.
It is a constitutional duty of prosecutors to provide any and all exculpatory evidence to all criminal defendents.
There are several supreme court decisions on this – the most prominent is Brady.
It is already painfully evident that these defendants and there attorney’s – mostly DC public defenders who were pushing their clients into pleas,
were not provided with evidence that is exculpatory.
I would note – it it irrelevant whether they are guilty or not. Exculpatory evidence is also mitigating evidence.
Turley is making that Argument regarding the Qanon Shaman. My problem with Turley is that while he understands this evidence should have been provided to the defense, that in all cases is it mitigating evidence.
He does not completely grasp that it is more than mitigating.
There is a problem because a large portion of these people are actually innocent, and few if any are guilty of what they have been convicted of.
As an example – what crime is it that the Qanon Shaman committed ? From what we can see – he was escorted – lead through the capital by no fewer than 9 CP officers. He did not threaten them – they opened locked doors for him – including the Senate chamber.
At this time we do not know how he got into the building – but the vast majority of protestors entered the building through doors the CP opened for them.
I have argued before that the capitol is the preminent place to petition the government and forum for free speech.
Pelosi can use the Covid emergency to lock the capitol – but NOT and continue to hold sessions of congress.
One or the other. Government can not use an emergency to prevent protest, to prevent free speech to prevent petitioning government.
But increasingly it is evident I do not need that argument – you can not tresspass if you are let in by the CP.
“The problem for them is that a lot of them stupidly incriminated themselves by posting selfies and videos committing crimes and saying things that totally incriminated their actions.”
Then you would be able to share those incriminating Selfies and videos. But you can’t – as always you are making things up.
Or you are taking a single example and pretending it occured thousands of times – when it did not.
The Video being released now does not prove the J6 protests were peaceful. But it guts the lefts nonsense that they were an out of control riot.
It is self evident that unlike BLM riots – the J6 protest was “mostly peaceful”.
What we have learned recently:
There were large number of armed federal agents – and we now have the means to identify them.
There is evidence that THEY or Federal informants took down the barriers.
Regardless, THEY all need to testify – Publicly. And we need their communications – particularly to their informants and bosses.
We need to know exactly what the role of the Feds was in this. The fed role is starting to look like a much bigger version of the whitmer kidnapping hoax.
That Ray Epps perjured himself at the J6 hearings atleast twice.
That not only were most of the people in the capital peaceful – they even stayed inside the rope lines.
That senators and congressmen were not driven out by protestors, nor threatened by protestors, that with few exceptions the protests were peaceful orderly and conttrolled. There has never been a left wing protest this peaceful.
What we need to know is:
Why this was supressed ?
Whether you like it or not – when you hide things – the rest of us presume you are lying.
I would further note that it is a legal standard that when evidence is supressed the jury can reasonably conclude it is very damaging to those who supressed it.
Pelosi supressed this.
Schumer supressed this.
DOJ supressed this
Biden Supressed this.
Garland Supressed this.
Everyone involved in supressing this is no longer to be trusted.
Who are the losers from this – Democrats and the left as well as a handful of Republicans.
Right now, Every single elected official trying to get Fox to suppress this should be removed from office,
At the very least they must be sanctioned by the house or senate ethics committees.
Demands that Fox, Carlson, Murdock Stop this – are open efforts to violate the first amendment – every clause except the establishment clause.
This is unconstitutional and these people are not qualitifed to hold public office.
They are violating their oath to uphold the constitution.
This is no different from Sen. Joe MacCarthy.
“Many were held without bail because judges have that discretion.”
I would suggest reading the constitution – that is not true.
Denying bail is NOT discretionary. Reasonable bail is a constitutional right. There are very very limited instances in which bail can be denied.
Constitutional rights are not at judges discretion.
“Being held in jail prior to their preliminary hearing is part of due process.”
Nope.
“All of them had representation and the majority were found guilty because the evidence against them, their own words and actions recorded on videos, made it very hard to claim innocence.”
Many are still being held without bail. Even murders are let out on bail if they are not tried within 180 days.
When Brady is violated – the was no due process – and the trial is void – all your “evidence” etc is meaningless.
Violating due process gets you a mistrial – often with predjudice – i.e prosecutors can not refile.
“Their punishments were according to the law.”
Nope.
“Those charged with sedition”
Clearly there was no sedition. That claim has tanked.
Actually go look at the hours and hours of new video released – that is not what sedition looks like.
As I noted before in the PB trial you are so fixated on
The DOJ’s star witness has testified – no sedition, no insurection, no plan.
3 of the 4 defendants were not at the capitol. The one that was did not go in. Two were not in DC.
“and assault on a law enforcement officer”
If someone actually unprovoked assaulted an offcer they should be convicted.
I know of two assault convictions – one was of an off duty officer who grabbed the wrist of a CP officer who was agressively shoving another protestor. That is not assault – and there is video.
In the other instance the guy who famously rescued dogs from New Orleans after Katrina, was trying to protect Rose Boylan from blows by a Black Female CP officer who was illegally using deadly force on Boylan. He did not strike the officer only blocked her blows on another.
That is defense of others and is legal. And again – there is video. Both the above examples have been arround for a long time – Before Tucker.
Though no doubt we will get even more video.
I have no problem convicting people for what they actually did – the guy who put an axe through a Senators door got a few months probation.
That was the Kavanaugh protests. Those here doing similar things should get similar sentences.
But DOJ is near 1000 convictions now – there are likely not more than a dozen people who committed actual crimes.
There was no sedition
No insurection.
Very little violence – far less than in Atlanta last week. Or Portland on almost any night in 2020.
There was almost no tresspassing.
Almost no theft.
Almost no destruction of property.
Crimes that were all ignored at the Kavaugh protests.
There was no Arson – something present at every BLM riot.
No looting.
Increasingly the CP turn out to be unprepared and Keystone Cops.
PRIOR to MacCarthy’s release, some video surfaced showing that the CP initiated the violence at the West Tunnel.
First they accidentally tear gassed themselves.
Then they accidentally fired CS Tear Gas into a peaceful crowd.
THAT is what started the conflict with the police.
Tear Gassing peaceful crowds is illegal – it is a crime it is assault.
This crowd was NOT moving forward at the time. They were legitimately outside the Capitol where they were allowed to be.
I would note I am giving the CP the benefit of the doubt – the other possibility is that they Tear Gassed the crowd deliberately.
Regardless the FACT that you tried so hard to supress and censor this,
makes it all the more important and trustworthy and requires weighing it in the least favorable way to the CP.
That BTW is the normal caselaw regarding supressed evidence.
We have discussed The Trump Subpeona before. There are many possible responses to a subpeona that the issuer does not feel was complied with.
One is to do nothing – and later bar the subpeona’d party from using that evidence in their defence. Even requiring the jury to be directed that the evidence must be presumed against the party that failed to provide it.
Another is to go to court – where BOTH parties appear before the Judge and the Judge decides whether the Subpeona was complied with, whether it was overly broad after listening to both side.
Getting a Warrant is NOT one of the legitimate choices.
Regardless, the standard in court is that evidence that is supressed is interpreted AGAINST the supressing party.
“clearly had overwhelming evidence against them.”
Not that I and 2/3 of the country have seen.
“Their punishment wasn’t vindictive.”
Of course it was – self evidently.
“It was appropriate to their crimes.”
What Crimes ?
It is always vindictive to punish innocent people.
Rioters in NYC are receiving a very large settlement from NYC.
That settlement should be DWARFED by the one J6 protestors are entitled to.
J6 rioters don’t have any claims to any settlement. They broke the law and they incriminated themselves by posting their crimes in real time. It was the single stupidest thing they could do. Now they are paying for it with jail time and fines.
Then you would have that evidence – you would have it against 1000 people.
Regardless, if your argument was the truth you would have had no problem conducting a fair trial.
You would have had no problem letting the public see all the evidence.
You did not.
Witholding evidence, Censorship, are all proof of actual innocence, and of the lawlessness of law enforcement.
I’m sure AG Garland is right on top of this like he was on the Jan. 6th riot. The DOJ will round up all these terrorists, track them down and keep them in jail without bond….Oh, I just woke up, but it was a nice dream.
“As for Jurgens, I would encourage withholding judgment until we see what evidence exists beyond his being present.”
I agree with the good professor.
I’m a Christian attorney and pastor who’s been on the SPLC hate group list for more than 20 years for co-authoring The Pink Swastika, exposing the homosexual roots of the Nazi Party, and refusing to recant my findings (which are thoroughly documented using unimpeachable sources). If one’s character can be judges by his enemies, I consider this designation a badge of honor — but it comes with a high cost in the form of cancel-culture barriers in the new social media version of the public square.
Even if this lawyer was just embedded with Antifa as an “observer” (which I highly doubt) he fits the definition of a “hater” far more closely than I ever have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Swastika#Reception
Why not just go to the source itself instead of letting leftist Wikipedia spin a narrative for you. https://www.scottlively.net/scott-lively-books/the-pink-swastika/
Your book doesn’t tell us what historians have to say about the historical inaccuracies in your book.
This links to a series of videos in which I present the original source material verbatim and document its trustworthiness. https://www.scottlively.net/scott-lively-books/the-pink-swastika/ You don’t need to rely on the opinions of detractors of this book — who almost always have a personal agenda. You can and should verify the reliability of the book for yourself.
I’ve had a standing offer to debate this topic with any competent opponent in any genuinely neutral venue for 25 years. Not a single taker. The left is terrified of this book. By the way, why don’t you have the courage to identify yourself, “Anonymous?” Why should anyone care what someone thinks who throws stones from behind an avatar?
Homosexuals are everywhere: in your family, church, neighborhoods, schools, libraries, town halls, etc. Always have been, always will be. You probably pushed some in your church and family to hide, live a double life or commit suicide. Better to have gotten to know them, understand their struggle and love them for an orientation they did not choose.
Scott Lively,
Well said.
Re: the detractors, you have responded with ad hominem.
And the vast majority of the commenters here do not use their real names. If you dislike that, choose a different site.
The Wikipedia kid is back. All link, no think.
It wasn’t ANTIFA.
Anonymous, it wasn’t a lot of things…but what was it?
To paraphrase the great 20th Century philosopher Gump, “Antifa is as Antifa does.” These violent black clad anarchist types don’t really care what banner they riot under.
Prove it.
Scott, since we can easily go back in time to the Greeks, I wonder how your research changes anything. Are you claiming that throughout history gays were responsible for genocide? Considering gays constitute a significant population group, I would expect gays to be involved in most things. What is the significance of your research?
The SPLC has proven that they are instigators of terrorism. Their target lists have resulted in an attack on the FRC and the perp pleading guilty to committing an act of terrorism after he went to the SPLCs website for ideas. Now the SPLC’s henchmen continue their terrorism. The SPLC may have started as a valuable resource but anyone who supports or has believed in the SPLC for the last decade or two is aiding and abetting terrorism and hate.
Highly Ed Woman,
Lots of rabbit holes one can go down here. I’m glad Prof Turley posted this article. SPLC has long had direct ties to I think some type of sub group of the FBI/US Intel. The SPLC, the Anti-American terrorist group as I think they likely are, along with at least one German military Trainer, with Tim Mcvay & others were said to be on a small piece of land used as a training camp that someone named Elohim City Oklahoma. It is just across the Ok/Arkansas border from the Bush/Clinton Coke connection airstrip of Mena Ak. (Ck Barry Seal + suicide report Gary Webb, both interesting cases)
The point, it appears to many that many of those groups were involved with blowing the OKC building where many of the paper records of the Bush/Clinton corruption records were stored.
Further that Fm OK gov Frank Keating, the current AG Garland, others & I seemed to remember a Fm OKC mayor Bob Macy? cover up all those messes.
Lots of unanswered questions others & I still have.
IE: Noble Lie, a documentary. Among other reports from about 30 years ago.
Good Luck
********
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=Elhem+city&ia=web
Given the current sociopolitical and economic mindset of academia, schools of law amongst them, finding their graduates acting out in these endeavors is not surprising. One can expect more of this lot going forward. As to the accused, it remains to be seen.
White Supremacy from the SPLC? ANTIFA violence from the LEFT.
zzclancy,
I note the pictures of those arrested, all but one are White. The FBI chicken little routine, about White Nationalist being the biggest threat to America is proven wrong again…when the actual violence continues being perpetuated by leftists. antifa and BLM.
Shouldn’t the matter of policing be left up to the people of Atlanta, not the “big businesses” of Atlanta? I guess I have concerns when Amazon, Home Depot, JP Morgan Chase, Waffle House, Chick-fil-A, and other big businesses are making the guidance decisions as well as funding 2/3 of the estimated 90 million price tag. Will the people of Atlanta allow these same corporations to decide which laws to enforce? Sounds too much like the storyline from RoboCop where big business took over all police powers in Detroit.
“Shouldn’t the matter of . . .”
Nice half-truths and scare tactics. That is the Left’s MO, yet again: Say anything and do anything to defund and demoralize the police. That way, Antifa thugs (and their ilk) have a clear path to tyranny.
Quite frankly, I am as conservative as one gets. We can’t hold our DOJ accountable for working with big businesses to stifle free speech. How would we ever control policing when big business takes over funding? Freedom is scary, we have to accept that responsibility for ourselves.
SPLC and its MGMT/STAFF get rich off of the US GOV’t, Corporations, FBI, DOJ and etc. They are a radical Left Wing Social Justice group. The Courts should throw the book at these 23 but I am afraid they will get off very light and be rewarded by some. DOJ/Garland will do nothing.
So does that mean that the center has to identify itself as a domestic terrorist orginization?
It really ought to. That would be in line with a fascist organization calling itself Antifa, thus opposing itself.
As a 16 year old with a drivers license, my dad explained to me I was guilty of the actions of the crowd I chose to hanging around with. In short, don’t call him for help, due to my free and willing choices.
“my dad explained to me I was guilty of the actions of the crowd I chose to hanging around with.”
Interesting. So you would agree that everyone who was hanging around the rioters on Jan 6 are guilty of participating in seditious conspiracy? Your dad’s rationale. Not mine.
everyone who was hanging around the rioters on Jan 6 are guilty of participating in seditious conspiracy?
Illiterate and innumerate. On display dozens of times a day.
A while back we were in Des Moinse after a play, and stopped for desert, in one of the restaurants in the Entertainment District, that includes Theater.
A gang squabble erupted in gun fire. Does that mean we were part of the gang fight? No. We had a reason to be there. Enjoying the services that thrive on Theater goers.
Jan 6 citizens, some exercising their constitutionally enumerated right to petition their government for redress, have business in the Capital.
Not surprising how wrong you are, seeing that you believe whatever the govt influenced media feeds you. Critical thought is not in your toolbox.
You are not near bright enough to play gotcha.
Iowan2, you ignored your dad’s advice.
“my dad explained to me I was guilty of the actions of the crowd I chose to hanging around with.”
Your dad believed in guilt by association. You agreed with that. You took that advice to heart.
All of those who hung around the JAN 6 rioters, according to YOUR dad, are guilty by mere association. They are all guilty of violence, assaults on officers, destruction of property, sedition. They are responsible for making the choice to hang around that group.
Your daddy’s rationale, not mine.
All of those who hung around the JAN 6 rioters, according to YOUR dad,
I already explained it for you. I can’t understand if for you.
” that everyone who was hanging around the rioters on Jan 6 are guilty of participating in seditious conspiracy? “
The tapes now being released by Tucker demonstrate there was no sedition and little violence from protestors who respect our Constitution.
The so-called violent Q Anon Shaman that many of your types said should be shot dead was peacefully walking with the Capitol Police, many of them who opened doors and did nothing to stop him. He thought they were on the side of the people and were giving him a tour, but he was sentenced to four years in jail. In the end, he prayed for the Capitol Police that protects our nation.
You and other loudmouth fascists on the blog are the animals that help implement the fascist regimes seen in the 20th century. Without you and your kind, such viciousness of so many people would not have occurred.
Don’t tell me you haven’t killed anyone. You are the one along with just a few others on this blog that represent those who followed the murderers and became murderers themselves. the only thing that stops you presently is we still have humanity and the law.
The tapes being released by Tucker Carlson are being cherry picked for his own narrative. Even republicans are calling BS on his characterization of events.
If they really wanted transparency why didn’t McCarthy release the videos to all media instead of a known liar like Tucker Carlson?
You are an idiot. The tape of the Shaman followed him through the Capitol. In fact, the J6 committee bookmarked certain areas of the tapes that proved some innocent but didn’t release the tapes to the public or courts. What was cherry-picked was the Democrat production of videos where they used a producer to put the tapes together leaving out context and exculpatory evidence for J6 defendants.
The J6 committee consisted of horrible liars acting very much in the fashion of the Nazis and Stalin. They used the same type of show “trial” using partial videos to spin the evidence. You are one of those animal fascists that blindly follow despots who kill millions. You don’t deserve the decency many of our fellow bloggers provide you.
Ya,
Looks like Tucker was forced by Fox, Schumer, McConnal & the Uni Party to stop for tonight, but tomorrow & later those videos a coming out with the American Hating Scum exposed, Schumer/McConnell & certain groups in/associated ( F’in Hamilton type Wallst, Red Coat Brit Banking Trash again!) , Rogue US Intel will be exposed to the US Citizen Owner/Majority Stakeholders!
We’ll See.
Jan. 6 footage shows Capitol cops escorting QAnon Shaman to Senate floor
Newly revealed surveillance footage from Jan. 6, 2021, shows two Capitol Police officers escorting Jacob Chansley, the behorned so-called “QAnon Shaman” who has come to symbolize the riot, through the halls of the Capitol and to the very door of the US Senate.
The footage aired on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show Monday night shows the officers closely following Chansley as he wanders the corridors of the Capitol, bare-chested and wearing face paint and a luxuriant fur hat with Viking horns.
“Virtually every moment of his time inside the Capitol was caught on tape,” says Carlson, who was granted exclusive access by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy to 40,000 hours of surveillance footage from that day inside and around the Capitol, which has never been seen before by the public.
“The tapes show the Capitol Police never stopped Jacob Chansley. They helped him. They acted as his tour guides.”
If there was cherrypicking, Democrats have had access to the tapes for two years and they can show it, but they can’t because they lied and the fool Svelaz believed them.
Chansley and his lawyers had access to the tapes, and he chose to plead guilty.
Neither of us know if Chansley’s lawyers had complete access to the tape, but you will lie about that. It also shows a flaw in our justice system since ideology rules the DC court and the prosecutors aren’t looking for justice.
Tell us what you saw on the video that justifies such a sentence. You can’t because you are one of those fascist animals that would have been part of those 20th century holocausts.
Allan / S. Meyer’s daily insults, example #1020.
Get your numbers straight, fascist.
https://nypost.com/2023/03/06/jan-6-footage-shows-cops-bringing-qanon-shaman-to-senate-floor/?&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20230307&lctg=62680bbe38a279b1870b18c5&utm_term=NYP%20-%20Morning%20Report
On Jan. 4, 2021, Tucker Carlson texted a Fox staffer, “We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights.” “I truly can’t wait.” “I hate him passionately.” The texts were released from Dominion’s $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox News today. Tucker is trying to distract from his own bad news.
More from Carlson on Jan. 4, 2021: “That’s the last four years. We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There isn’t really an upside to Trump.”
Let’s assume Tucker said that about Trump and meant it. He said far worse about Democrats and people like you.
When it comes time to vote Trump v Biden, Tucker will be pulling the lever for Trump. You are a fool that doesn’t realize the meaning behind what you are saying.
Allan / S. Meyer’s daily insults, example #1021.
Let’s assume Tucker said that about Trump and meant it. He said far worse about Democrats and people like you.
When it comes time to vote Trump v Biden, Tucker will be pulling the lever for Trump. You are a fool that doesn’t realize the meaning behind what you are saying.
The first thing we have to consider is context. We know that ATS is deceptive and lies. He has no context surrounding brief snippets so those comments can mean anything. More worthless content from ATS.
The second thing is who care if someone doesn’t like Trump? That doesn’t mean a person doesn’t think he is the best man for the job.
The paint store owner that sued Trump, in a dispute over who should pay for the paint when a subcontractor walked off the job, was asked who he was voting for. He said Trump. Why? Not because he liked him, not because he had a suit against him, but because Trump was the best man for the job.
ATS is stupid. He can’t separate his emotions from reality. But he can watch people unfairly convicted and cheer about it.
Allan / S. Meyer’s daily insults, example #1022.
You are angry because your own lack of understanding makes you look like a fool.
In a Trump v Biden race…
Who will Tucker vote for? Trump
Who will the Paint owner vote for? Trump.
You can’t handle the facts.
So Jim Jordan is guilty of student sexual abuse?
It is far more likely you are. That may be a reason you want to hide your identity
… says a guy/gal who’s hiding their identity.
says a guy/gal who is talking to a guy who hides his identity, has pretend friends, uses various addresses so he can delete some of his responses, lies and deceives. You know who I am and I know who you are Anonymous the Stupid.
Allan / S. Meyer’s daily insults, example #1023.
says a guy/gal who is talking to a guy who hides his identity, has pretend friends, uses various addresses so he can delete some of his responses, lies and deceives. You know who I am and I know who you are Anonymous the Stupid
Keep throwing your temper tantrums ATS. This is a sign of a loser.
Donned Black Clothing and damaged construction equipment, committed arson, and threw rocks, bottles, and fireworks at Police…..can the Professor not spell “ANTIFA”.
Observer at a Riot involving violence…..plainly had advance notice or he would not have been there.
Birds of a Feather and being known by the company one keeps rings a Bell here.
Yes….wait for the evidence to be presented….at Trial and upon conviction disbar the guy and send him to Prison.
Would the Professor insist we withhold our condemnation of such conduct were it the SPLC Offices that got burnt by the KKK?
There is and should not be….tolerance for anyone complicit in the use of illegal violence to advance a political goal.
The principle in this incident is no different than what happened in Portland at the Federal Building or at the Capitol in DC on January 6th..
Yet….these people were “released” and are not going to be held until they finally get a trial….odd isn’t it.
If you wear Black and and attack Police Officers during Riots you get a Pass in Democrat run Cities.
“Donned Black Clothing and damaged construction equipment, committed arson, and threw rocks, bottles, and fireworks at Police…..can the Professor not spell “ANTIFA”.
They were not ANTIFA. They were environmentalists and anti police protesters. They were two groups apparently.
“Dubbed “Cop City” by its detractors, the planned $90 million training complex for law enforcement officers has been the ire of environmentalists and anti-police activists since 2021 when the Atlanta City Council approved the complex in June of that year”
These guys weren’t domestic terrorists. They were just your run of the mill environmentalists and anti-police activists.
“They were just your run of the mill environmentalists and anti-police activists.”
Their behavior justifies the charges.
REAL Environmentalists wouldn’t be burning down construction sites because of the pollution.
Environmentalists would certainly destroy equipment. Especially when it’s in a construction yard. They have been known for pouring sugar into fuel tanks or sabotaging hydraulics.
These environmentalists seem more like amateurs.
They cannot be charged with domestic terrorism. The charges that are more likely to be accurate are destruction of property, unlawful use of fireworks. The cops were not hit or injured by the bricks or rocks they were throwing because they retreated to a safe distance before backup arrived. It’s more likely some will face arson and other misdemeanor charges of destruction of property, Trespassing, and possibly assault.
They cannot be charged with domestic terrorism.
The all knowing troll, now an expert on the State Laws of Georgia. With a side of mind reading thrown in to amuse the Carnival lovers
Svelaz is like a train wreck. You know its going to be bad, but you keep watching anyway.
“ they cannot be charged with domestic terrorism”
You assume because you are ignorant. You talk before you know what the facts are.
Wrong again. They can be charged under Georgia law, “Title 16 – Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 11 – Offenses Against Public Order and Safety
Article 6 – Domestic Terrorism”
I’ve already posted the contents of the code section, supra. They will be charged, amount other charges, under this code section.
“They were just your run of the mill environmentalists and anti-police activists.”
Who initiated violence to achieve a political end. That is the definition of “terrorism.”
Under Georgia law they can be charged s terrorist.
2020 Georgia Code
Title 16 – Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 11 – Offenses Against Public Order and Safety
Article 6 – Domestic Terrorism
§ 16-11-220. Definitions
As used in this article, the term:
1. “Critical infrastructure” means publicly or privately owned facilities, systems, functions, or assets, whether physical or virtual, providing or distributing services for the benefit of the public, including, but not limited to, energy, fuel, water, agriculture, health care, finance, or communication.
2. “Domestic terrorism” means any felony violation of, or attempt to commit a felony violation of the laws of this state which, as part of a single unlawful act or a series of unlawful acts which are interrelated by distinguishing characteristics, is intended to cause serious bodily harm, kill any individual or group of individuals, or disable or destroy critical infrastructure, a state or government facility, or a public transportation system when such disability or destruction results in major economic loss, and is intended to:
A. Intimidate the civilian population of this state or any of its political subdivisions;
B. Alter, change, or coerce the policy of the government of this state or any of its political subdivisions by intimidation or coercion; or
C. Affect the conduct of the government of this state or any of its political subdivisions by use of destructive devices, assassination, or kidnapping.
3. “Public transportation system” means all facilities, conveyances, and instrumentalities, whether publicly or privately owned, that are used in or for publicly available services for the transportation of individuals or cargo.
4. “Serious bodily harm” means harm to the body of another by depriving him or her of a member of his or her body, by rendering a member of his or her body useless, or by seriously disfiguring his or her body or a member thereof.
5. “State or government facility” means any permanent or temporary facility or conveyance that is used or occupied by representatives of this state or any of its political subdivisions, by the legislature, by the judiciary, or by officials or employees of this state or any of its political subdivisions.
Terrorism
§ 16-11-221. Penalties
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-11-221 (2020)
a. Any person who commits domestic terrorism shall be guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be punished as follows:
1. If death results to any individual, by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life;
2. If kidnapping occurs, by imprisonment for not less than 15 nor more than 35 years, or by imprisonment for life;
3. If serious bodily harm occurs, by imprisonment for not less than 15 nor more than 35 years; or
4. If critical infrastructure, a state or government facility, or a public transportation system is disabled or destroyed, by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 35 years.
b. No sentence imposed under this Code section shall be suspended, stayed, probated, deferred, or withheld by the sentencing court; provided, however, that in the court’s discretion, the court may suspend, stay, probate, defer, or withhold part of such sentence when the prosecuting attorney and the defendant have agreed to such sentence.
Terrorism
§ 16-11-222. Persons and Conduct Subject to Prosecution for Offense of Domestic Terrorism
A person shall be subject to prosecution in this state pursuant to Code Section 17-2-1 for any conduct made unlawful by this article which the person engages in while:
1. Either within or outside of this state if, by such conduct, the person commits a violation of this article which involves an individual who resides in this state or which involves critical infrastructure, a state or government facility, or a public transportation system located in this state; or
2. Within this state if, by such conduct, the person commits a violation of this article which involves an individual who resides within or outside this state or which involves critical infrastructure, a state or government facility, or a public transportation system located in this state.
This was worse than 9/11 and Dec 7th 1941…oh wait, I have the wrong event. How is it that we haven’t seen any of this accused guys Tweets or other postings? If he was a conservative we would have had his grade school teacher on TV already telling us what a monster he was.
He will get the Molotov Cocktail throwing NY lawyer treatment, a long delay, a media rehab and a slap on the wrist.
“He will get the Molotov Cocktail throwing NY lawyer treatment, a long delay, a media rehab and a slap on the wrist.”
Sounds like you already deemed him guilty despite the fact that there’s no evidence of what he’s accused of.
Even Turley acknowledges that the accusation against him can’t be verified.
“Unlike the cases of Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman, it is not clear what the evidence is against Jurgens beyond his being present at the scene.”
…”As for Jurgens, I would encourage withholding judgment until we see what evidence exists beyond his being present. There are routinely such observers at these protests.”
Police often are overzealous when they charge individuals.
Svelaz wrote, “…despite the fact that there’s no evidence of what he’s accused of.”
You don’t know that that is a fact.
Steve Witherspoon,
“You don’t know that that is a fact.”
It’s the only fact right now. There’s no evidence that he participated in the group’s activities. Therefore he is innocent until proven guilty. Even Turley makes this distinction when he says,
“As for Jurgens, I would encourage withholding judgment until we see what evidence exists beyond his being present. There are routinely such observers at these protests.”
Obviously a few here already rendered judgment regardless of any evidence.
Svelaz wrote, “It’s the only fact right now.”
Both your original statement and this one are verifiably false and you’re too damned ignorant to figure that out.
The fact is that he was actually there and that is “A” piece of evidence in support of the charge. I’m going to take a wile guess that there is likely more evidence that we don’t know about yet but as you stated, sometimes police can be overzealous and arrest individuals based on their presence at the illegal event and nothing else. They’ll weed out the non-participants.
Svelaz wrote, “…he is innocent until proven guilty.”
Of course he is just like everyone else that is accused of anything; although, it seems that if you happen to be a Conservative or a Republican then you are publicly tarred as guilty until proven innocent.
Witherspoon,
“The fact is that he was actually there and that is “A” piece of evidence in support of the charge.”
Being there is not evidence of what he’s being accused of. Merely being there is not proof that he’s a domestic terrorist. Turley points this out clearly.
My statement isn’t false because it’s true that there is no evidence of him joining in on the violence. Observing the altercation is not a crime. And Turley points out that merely being there is not a justification for the charges against him.
Svelaz,
Clearly you’re being obtuse to troll.
Fin.
Being there is a necessary element, something you have forgotten about when you discuss January 6.
You are ignorant. You do not know whether there is evidence or not.
Being there is not evidence of what he’s being accused of.
Being present, is evidence. It is the preponderance of evidence that leads to a conviction.
Another pedantry fail
“There is no evidence of him entering into the violence”
He doesn’t have to enter into the violence. If you use your mind, you might see that he could have helped plan the violence and stayed away from it. Your intellect has no hope.
Anonymous,
I didn’t write what you are quoting, please redirect your comment to the correct source not me.
Steve
We don’t know if there is “no evidence”. Really we don’t know what evidence, if any at all, there is. I will reserve judgement until then.
“Sounds like you already deemed him guilty “
He looks and sounds guilty, but that doesn’t mean he should be found guilty in a court of law. That, however, is not what you say when the shoe is on the other foot. Your judgement is tainted by stupidity and party affiliation.
Adding to that ignorance, you say: “there’s no evidence of what he’s accused of.”
But, as usual, you don’t know what evidence exists. That is why you are known as a ‘factless’ member of the ‘ignoranci’.
(I amsigning my name at present because I don’t want to interfere with the anonymous individual who presently has been telling you what you are, stoopid (her words).
In the 60’s and 70’s there was actual law enforcement agencies at the local, state and Federal level, aggressive prosecutors and law and order judges that dismantled violent groups like the Weather Underground, Symbionese Liberation Army and Black Panthers. Unfortunately, we don’t have those institutions to protect us anymore.
it is WORSE…the Institutions BACK the violent groups!
Jan 6th was Federal Organized…with Agent Provocateurs! Speaker Pelosi…removed protections! It was a SET UP, just like the Russian Hoax…also FEDERALLY ORGANIZED.
The DOJ, FBI, IRS, DHS, CDC, etc are 100% corrupt for Democrats! SEC Protected the FTX organization to funnel money to DEMOCRATS!
The former chief lawyer of the CFTC…and Gary Gensler CURRENT SEC leader…right hand there
Follow the money for this attack and I suspect it will lead right to the SPLC!!
And to George Soros!
Follow the money for this attack,
Yes.
It is frustrating that the FBI knows all about the financial backing of these thugs, but refuses to move on the evidence.