Below is my column in the New York Post on the rising rhetoric over the expulsion of two members of the Tennessee legislature. Democrats are denouncing the “fascists” and “racists” for sanctioning members who have been lionized for stopping legislative business with a bullhorn. The incident perfectly captures our amplified rage in today’s politics.
Here is the column:
This month, there was an “assault on democracy” in Tennessee.
However, it was apparently not members halting the legislative process, but rather their expulsion.
It appears that nothing says democracy like a bullhorn and obstructing legislative work.
I recently wrote a column on how American politics has become a simple matter of amplification after Democrats stopped the Tennessee House proceedings with a bullhorn to protest the lack of gun control measures.
I noted, “Today, for many, there is no room for nuance. Instead, they live in a world occupied only by ‘fascists’ and ‘insurrectionists.’ ”
Right on cue, Vice President Kamala Harris and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) proceeded to add their own amplified voices to the madness.
AOC even shared a video of protesters chanting “F–k you fascists” and promising that “Gen Z” will even the score.
I do not agree with the expulsion of the two members as opposed to other sanctions.
Expulsion should only come in rare and extreme circumstances.
While repeated disruption of the proceedings might qualify, I would have recommended censures and suspension from Committee positions.
Vice President Harris did not visit the families of the victims of the recent mass shooting in Nashville, but flew to the state to express her outrage at the expulsion of two legislators.
She praised the legislators while blaming the Republicans for victimizing the families whom she ignored on her visit.
Disrupting discourse
The full-throated support for the actions of the expelled legislators is a bizarre position for the Senate president who enforces the same rules in Washington, DC.
Yet she was disgusted by sanctioning members who refused to allow their colleagues to continue legislative business because they lacked the votes for a gun control measure.
Harris proclaimed “it’s about whose voices they were channeling. Understand that — and is that not what a democracy allows?”
Liberal sites like HuffPost gushed with praise for Harris and her “powerful message on Democracy.”
Democracy does not invite or entail the disruption of democratic process.
It is the same bizarre claim for many on the left that silencing others by shouting them down on campuses is a form of free speech.
These legislators were upset because they are in the minority and lack sufficient votes to get what they want.
They were protesting the democratic process, not advancing its principles in shutting down the floor.
For her part, AOC returned to calling the GOP members fascists and said Gen Z was coming: “Their fascism is only further radicalizing and awakening an earthquake of young people, both in the South and across the nation. If you thought youth organizing was strong, just wait for what’s coming. Gen Z don’t play.”
Others piled on: Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) decried, “This is fascism . . . expelling your political opponents . . . is disgusting.” Likewise, Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) declared, “This is fascism, full stop.” Rep. Summer Lee (D-Pa.) added “straight-up fascism in its ugliest, most racist form” because “there is no justification for ousting two legislators who were protesting with and for their constituents.”
Echo chamber
It is an ironic position of some Democrats who have supported calls for expelling House members after Jan. 6, including false claims that members personally assisted rioters in surveilling and getting access to the building.
The Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin also called for expelling Republican members who voted against certifying the 2020 election.
It did not matter that members like Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) had previously voted against the certification of Republican presidents and called it democracy.
In 2004, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi heaping praise on Boxer declared, “This is not as some of our Republican colleagues have referred to it sadly as frivolous. This debate is fundamental to our democracy.”
Rubin declared, “Every Republican bears a responsibility for what happened on Wednesday, whether or not they participated in a seditious attempt to overthrow our democracy.”
January 6th committee Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) voted to challenge the certification of the 2004 results of President George W. Bush’s re-election; committee member Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) sought to challenge President Donald Trump’s certification in 2016.
It did not matter that Rubin and members like Rep. Bill Pascrell demanded expulsion of dozens of members for their voting the wrong way on certification.
There were no cries of disgust from Harris or others even when Pascrell later called for prevention of 120 GOP members from being seated for signing an amicus brief that the Democrats disagreed with.
Likewise, when GOP members said something on the floor that Rep. David Cicilline (D-RI) felt wrongly portrayed Jan. 6, he called for their censure.
Dangerous hypocrisy
Now, however, Rubin and others are outraged with the expulsion of two members, objecting to “the stunning sight of white lawmakers condescendingly dismissing two young black men.”
Others packed a litany of left-wing grievances in the controversy.
One columnist wrote: “White nationalistic, theocratic, radical, ‘conservative’ movement that wants to burn this country to the ground if the masses refuse to be ruled by them alone do wish to conserve something. White (straight, ‘Christian’) male privilege and power. What happened was a very public lesson on structural racism, or even better, critical race theory.”
The media is complicit in this dangerous hypocrisy.
There is no discussion of how reckless rhetoric to rise up against the “fascists” fuels violence despite the common objections to such rhetoric from figures like Trump.
When witnesses recently called for an investigation into government censorship efforts, Democratic members denounced those calling for greater transparency as “Putin lovers” and apologists for insurrectionists and racists.
The reason appears to be the very rationalization of Vice President Harris: “It’s about whose voices they were channeling.”
Preventing legislative proceedings because the majority denied the “right” result is now democracy itself.
AOC’s promise of a radical reckoning is of little surprise.
The self-proclaimed socialist has long objected to aspects of our constitutional democracy, even questioning the value of having a Supreme Court.
Because she disagrees with the rulings of the Court, she asked, “How much does the current structure benefit us? And I don’t think it does.”
It all comes down to “whose voices are being channeled” as opposed to what the law or democracy may dictate.
It is all part of Politics BYOB (Bring Your Own Bullhorn).
How can a legislative body survive if members who do not abide by its rules they swore to follow are not expelled? Censure sounds bad, but it will not physically stop members determined to disrupt its proceedings and keep it from doing its job.
Now you grasp what Lincoln did. Secession was and is fully constitutional – it’s what the Founders did. Lincoln’s secession denial, imposition of marital law, war, tyranny and oppression were irrefutably unconstitutional. Lincoln is the highest criminal America has ever suffered. The whole Lincoln “Reign of Terror” must have never happened. The so-called “Reconstruction Amendments” are illicit, invalid, illegitimate and unconstitutional to this day.
Then, I presume you also want Sexton expelled? By admitting to moving his family out to Nashville full time, he fails to meet the qualifications under TN law to represent his rural district.
This ticky-tacky stuff is so dumb. If breaking a procedural rule (but not a law!) is not the perfect situation for censure, what is?
Then due to equity, every lawmaker should be given a bullhorn.
I can’t wait to see that!
“ Tennessee Republican Fears Funding Cuts If Ousted Democrat is Reappointed”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tennessee-republican-fears-funding-cuts-if-ousted-democrat-is-reappointed/ar-AA19JuEL?cvid=da26121d58424da2a84ba837f1ac474e&ei=27
This is what authoritarianism looks like. Republican legislators in TN are issuing threats to the city council if they reinstate the last expelled legislator. Think about that for a minute. TN legislators are telling their voters that they don’t matter. That the legislature is to be bowed and do what they demand especially if you’re black.
Communist dictatorial order out of chaos.
Svelaz, you have beeb in this city council thing for two days now. How is it that you think a city council can dictate to a the state legislature what it can or can not do. Do you think that the city council of say San Francisco can tell the California state legislature how to conduct its business. Duh and duh and duh.
It’s Tennessee law, look it up. but I have my doubts you will.
“That the legislature is to be bowed and do what they demand especially if you’re black.”.
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Black’s got nothing to do with it; stupid does. And these two Dims were stupid personified (I know its redundant). As for “authoritarianism,” most of us call that majority rule. You Dims only like that when you have the majority. Then it’s “democracy.” How long do you Dims think you can keep up this charade of principled opposition? You’re power cravers and will say or do anything – including dividing the nation in half — to get it.
Svelaz, you are a racist. If there were two white guys with a bullhorn shutting down the legislature in Massachusetts it would take two years to get the twist out of your panties. With you it’s the color of the skin that matters. Racism and hypocrisy are twin sisters. We understand, your just paying your virtue signaling dues.
TiT, what did I say that makes me racist? You didn’t explain that. Is it that reflect that only white guys who have never experienced racism say?
It seems TN has a very ugly history with racism as this legislature has…notions of it up the wazzoo.
What makes you racist ?
Bringing race in when it is not a factor.
It is also called lying.
That is why an Indian representative took Jones to task for lying and playing the race card.
You clearly do not know what authoritarianism is.
TN republicans are following the rules. Rules that have been there forever.
That is not authoritarian.
Authoritarian is where the rules do not apply if you are powerful, and you get to make new rules willing nilly to punish the powerless.
The TN legislature is following existing rules. Not making up the rules as it goes as democrats CONSTANTLY do.
Regardless are you prepared to accept the same conduct by Republican legislators in the Senate or in legislatures controlled by Democrats ?
If You are then I am fine with letting legislators disrupt legislatures.
But I highly doubt you want this to become a tactic that Republicans can use with impunity.
“It’s the [Constitution], stupid!”
– James Carville
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AOC, Kamala Harris, Rashida Tlaib, Jim McGovern, Summer Lee, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Susan Rice, Jennifer Rubin et al. herein, and the rest of the ubiquitous communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs, AINOs) in America are the direct and mortal enemies of the American thesis of freedom and self-reliance, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, Americans and America.
The Framers gave all Americans the one and only thing they could: Freedom.
The Founders established America to stand in perpetuity under the Constitution – not to suffer its destruction allowing an enemy to engage in “fundamentally transforming” it.
It’s not the vote, it’s not the government, it’s the Constitution.
America is a restricted-vote republic under the dominion of the clear and evident, meaning and intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Never did the Founders intend for a one man, one vote democracy.
One man, one vote democracy is chaos which always succumbs to dictatorship.
The “dictatorship of the proletariat” of Weydemeyer/Marx is pure communism – the communists obtain dictatorial order out of chaos.
Chaos occurred in the Tennessee legislature.
The American Founders liberated the United States from the dictatorship of the monarchy and provided dominion to the Constitution and Bill of Rights under infinitesimal self-government.
The singular American failure has been and remains the judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court, the members of which swore an oath to support the Constitution.
The judicial branch failed America miserably, treasonously.
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“He who hesitates is lost.”
– Cato
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“…know the enemy…”
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself, but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
– Sun Tzu
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”Our strategy to go after this army is very, very simple.”
“First, we’re going to cut it off, and then we’re going to kill it.”
– Colin Powell
Jonathan: Why are you returning to the controversy about the expulsion of 2 Blacks Tennessee House members? My guess is that Rupert Murdock believes this is a hot button issue–red meat for the Fox viewers and he expects his legal analyst to keep the issue in the headlines.
You say the brief and peaceful protest on the Tennessee House floor was not “Democracy” in action but rather a “disruption of democratic process”. So the “democratic process” does not include the right of legislators to join a protest over continuing gun violence? In other words “free speech” does not apply when a bull horn is used to amplify the demands of the hundreds of protesters inside the Capitol for sensible gun legislation. That’s nonsensical.
Now I suppose in an ideal world the GOP House members should have allowed the peaceful protest to end and then resume the regular order of business. They could have followed with and admonition or censure of the 2 Black House members. You even argued against expulsion. But, instead, the GOP expelled them–but not the White member. Apparently, the GOP wanted to make an example of 2 uppity Black legislators. Tennessee has a long history of racism (the KKK was founded in the state) so this action was just another example of how racism is practiced in Tennessee.
You cite a column by the WP’s Jennifer Rubin. I prefer her 4/7 column “Tennessee shows that guns might be the next disaster for the GOP”, in which she says: “In Tennessee, Republican lawmakers expelled two Black Democratic state representatives who exercised their constitutional rights by joining a protest in the state Capitol in response to a mass shooting at a school. The stunning sight of White lawmakers condescendingly dismissing two young Black men should be a wake-up call”.
And you complain about the “hypocrisy” of the Dems in Congress in calling for the expulsion of House members who supported the Jan. 6 insurrection and refused to vote to certify the 2020 electoral vote. But no GOP member was expelled. Jim Jordan is one who probably should have been expelled. Why?
It should be recalled that Jordan was involved in the planning for Jan. 6 and met in planning meetings in the White House. The Jan. 6 House Committee issued a subpoena for Jordan to testify. He gave the Committee the middle finger. He ignored a lawful House subpoena. Jordan was referred by the Jan.6 Committee to the DOJ for prosecution for contempt of Congress. Jordan is now hypocritically demanding that Mark Pomerantz, a former member of the Manhattan DA office, to testify about the investigation of Donald Trump. This is an unprecedented and unconstitutional attempt to interfere in a state criminal investigation. Jordan has issued a subpoena for Pomerantz to testify. If Pomerantz refuses Jordan will hold him in contempt. So Jordan defies a lawful subpoena but now demands that Pomerantz testify. Jordan’s antics reek of “hypocrisy”. Something you no doubt will ignore!
Jonathan realized how bad a look it was and needed to change the subject. How fortunate he wasn’t around to explain Bloody Sunday and blame the marchers for feeding the dogs with their flesh.
Dennis – you constantly insinuate that Rupert Murdoch is telling JT what to write about. You don’t really believe that, do you?
Edwardmahl: Actually, I do. We know from the Dominion lawsuit that Murdock pretty muck determines the daily talking points on Fox. That filters out to his other media platforms like the NY Post–a tabloid that Turley frequently cites in his columns. Turley provides an echo chamber for Murdock’s views. He doesn’t need a memo every morning from Murdock to know what he needs to write. It’s implicit in his contract of employment.
“This is an unprecedented and unconstitutional attempt to interfere in a state criminal investigation.”
Nice try.
Bragg made it a *federal* issue. He and his minions cannot now hide behind the skirt of: it’s only a *state* issue.
A lot of critics of the TN legislature are right in calling them fascists and racists. One of the legislators that were expelled was unanimously voted back in by the Board of commissioners and the other one is expected to be reinstated as well. What is the TN legislature doing? They are threatening the Board of commissioners with defunding their budget if they go ahead with the reinstatements. That’s quite the fascist authoritarian behavior that the right is often complaining about when it is about the left.
The reports according to some commission board members say that some TN legislators have been threatening retaliation if they reinstate the two legislators. They are making things worse for themselves and making it easier for democrats to point out the true nature of the Republican dominated body. They are authoritarians who expect everyone to toe the line or else. Turley sure seems to be on the wrong side of this argument. These legislators are doing everything Turley allegedly is against. Hypocrisy sure is hard to avoid for Turley.
“A lot of critics of the TN legislature are right in calling them fascists and racists.”
Because those on the left ALWAYS call republicans fascists and racists.
“One of the legislators that were expelled was unanimously voted back in by the Board of commissioners and the other one is expected to be reinstated as well. ”
Yup.
“What is the TN legislature doing? They are threatening the Board of commissioners with defunding their budget if they go ahead with the reinstatements. ”
Within the power of the state. In most states there is no local authority that is not delegated by the state.
IF a local board of commissioners has the power to override the decisions of the legislature, the result is anarchy.
You are also playing another typical left wing nut game – where You get your way if you control a SINGLE portion of government.
That is pretty much the opposite of the democracy you claim to support.
“That’s quite the fascist authoritarian behavior that the right is often complaining about when it is about the left.”
Nope, no one was jailed. These members had the oportunity to control their actions. they had the oportunity to defend their actions. and Jones in particular was a repeat offender.
Following the rules and imposing sanctions on those who do not is not fascist or authoritarian.
“The reports according to some commission board members say that some TN legislators have been threatening retaliation if they reinstate the two legislators. ”
Could be. It is called politics.
I expext that whatever the legislature does – it will follow the law and its rules.
But other than that they are free to discipline rogue members.
Without that there is anarchy.
I am OK if that is what you want – but then it must be for democratrs and republicans too.
“They are making things worse for themselves and making it easier for democrats to point out the true nature of the Republican dominated body.”
How so ? Do you think the communities that elected them are not supporting their actions ?
The true nature of the republican dominated body is that they are long suffering and tolerated violations of the rules and common courtesy from Jones and others for a long time. And democrats as they always do finally went too far.
Notice unlike J6 no one is rotting in jail merely for disruption.
“They are authoritarians who expect everyone to toe the line or else.”
Not authoritarians,
But YES the rules must be followed or their are consequences.
That should be the norm everywhere.
If there is something wrong with the rules – change them.
“Turley sure seems to be on the wrong side of this argument.”
No Turley is just increasingly on the wrong side of the left.
“These legislators are doing everything Turley allegedly is against.”
Following the rules ? Enforcing the rules ?
“Hypocrisy sure is hard to avoid for Turley.”
Nothing hypocritical here.
Come on man! The Democrats don’t believe in the substance of what they are saying. They only believe in who they are saying it about. It’s not enough to just label them as hypocrites. That would merely be overstating the obvious. It’s the motivation behind how and for whom they communicate their hypocrisy that is so destructive. If this modern Democratic party had anything of substance they could point to proving their policies are working for every American, they would be using their bullhorn to communicate it. The fact they only amplify their voices to attack the Republican party is proof positive they are shell of their former self.
Turley wrote, “it appears that nothing says democracy like a bullhorn and obstructing legislative work” of course he meant it sarcastically. But standing up with a bullhorn in a public forum works a lot better than attacking police and breaking into a capital with violence.
FishWings, yeh like attacking the white house and burning a church across the street. Then we have the BLM riots. Leftist like you didn’t like it when Biden was shouted at when giving the state of the union message but now you support the Tennessee three when they do the same thing. What will you say when the Republicans bring a bullhorn to Biden’s next state of the union? Stinken thinken
It’s not the same thing, so your answer is…..BUT….BUT….BUT….
Judd Legum: “Tennessee Speaker @CSexton25 expelled two members of the House for violating “rules of decorum.” But Popular Information has learned that Sexton has trouble with Tennessee’s tax laws. He has failed to pay property taxes on his condo on Crossville for the last 2 years”
“@CSexton represents Crossville, which is two hours from Nashville, in the House. But yesterday, in response to a report from http://Popular.info, he admitted that he and his family live in Nashville, not Crossville.
“…
“Sexton is also billing taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars for his “commute” from Crossville to Nashville that he doesn’t actually have to make since he lives in Nashville”
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1645784181530656774
Apparently actual law-breaking by the TN Speaker doesn’t concern Turley nearly as much as using a bullhorn. He has written more than one column about the latter but is silent about the former.
The massive hypocrisy that is Turley never ceases to entertain.
I’m going over to the Svel azz blog.
You are the azz you complain of.
Svelaz the massive hypocracy is YOURS.
We have had left wing nuts overrun 3 state legislatures in a month.
Protesting government actions you do support is in left wing nut world a crime.
Protesting those you oppose is apparently a badge of honor.
Regardless, your radically different views regarding J6 and TN are evidence of massive hypocrisy.
Turley,
This is Kabuki Theater.
Think It Through made a comment that this is a distraction away from the fact that the shooter was a tranny who had some deep emotional problems.
Beyond that… their stunt was coordinated and was done with intent.
It goes beyond the use of a bullhorn.
They led a group of protesters who were arrested outside of chamber.
They interrupted the business within the chamber.
Reports said that one of those who was expelled asked a GOP colleague to expel him knowing that he’ll be sent back by his district.
Think about that for a second.
1) Move the discussion away from the fact that the shooter was trans. She destroys the myth that the mass shooters of school children are white males.
2) Protest the gun, not the shooter. Get as many gun grabbing libtards who’s mantra is ‘Think of the children!’ rather than realize that a bad actor will get a gun or make a bomb leaving the legal majority without guns…. these bans not only don’t work but are unconstitutional in the post Bruen world.
3) Make a scene where the white woman stands silent and then claims to have only been in support of her black colleagues, so that when they are expelled (which they asked to be…) She could claim she wasn’t expelled because she was white. Opening the doors for others to call the GOP in TN racists.
This was planned and coordinated.
The GOP and everyone should be able to see this… yet are silent and allow this to occur.
The GOP need to change tactics and when stunts like these occur, they need to not only act swiftly with resolve… but shut down these baseless accusations.
Come 2024… the DNC will use this against them and rile up their base and hope that independents don’t remember the truth.
-G
Not one word from Turley about the disgraced twice impeached ex-president when he uses stochastic terrorist threats to NY lawyers or federal and state official’s. Trump using terms as “death and destruction” just means nothing to Turley. Local and state election workers are being harassed, still no word from Turley. But state legislators standing up for most of the people of Tennessee who want some kind action on guns, is just to much for his benefactors at “FOXNEWS”.
Impeachment is a political process that most often serves only to enable disgruntled members of one political party to silence a member(s) of another political party. It’s a dispute waged among partisan factions, and has no worthwhile purpose unless a conviction is had. No doubt that is why Turley doesn’t bother with it to your liking.
The fact is, Trump is the only president to be impeached twice. And the record reflects that.
And twice he went not convicted. The fact is he’s the only president to be impeached twice who can run and may be elected again.
He’ll lose again.
That’s why I said, “May be”.
FactCheck for FishCult — Trump was ACQUITTED. Twice. And the record reflects this — even if the fake news does not.
FishCult — Quit yer incessant whining about what Turley should write about…according to you…k?
You can get your fill of ‘news’ and ‘opinion’ that your delicate ears prefer just about everywhere else bc that’s all the fake news talks about and they all share your worldview. Go on now and slither off to get your daily refill of MSLSD brainwashing like a good little brainwashed idiot.
Bull**** Horn.
I heard this from some locker Rm boys that have refused to grow up 😉 I cleaned it up a bunch.
******
Whats the difference between kissing a puzzy cat on the head & drinking Bud Light?
The puzzy taste like p*iss just for a second.
Let’s have a vote on expelling Dims from the country! Exile is good thing
Hear, hear!
The Founders, Framers, Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights were and are all conservative, and immutably exclusive of communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs, AINOs) in America.
I disagree about expulsion. Disrupting the legislative session with bullhorns was beyond mere discourtesy and incivility. I think the precedent set by expulsion is necessary to send a message that deliberate disruption will not be tolerated. Mere censure invites repetition, because the consequence is so mild.
It was a protest against inaction. It’s historically the norm for this country. Boston tea party, Jan 6, etc.
Disruptive protest has been a part of the benefits of living in this country. Remember legislators fleeing to another state to prevent a quorum? Republicans and democrats have protested that way and it’s also a disruption of legislative norms.
And when there is “disruption” on the floor of a deliberative body such as a convened legislature, those responsible for maintaining decorum are expected to act. Are you now for Jan 6 after you were against it?
These ARE America’s direct and mortal enemies.
This communist’s only hope is to obtain communist dictatorial order out of the chaos of one man, one vote democracy, which always devolves into dictatorship.
Never was America intended to be a one man, one vote democrazy.
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“the people are nothing but a great beast…
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value.”
– Alexander Hamilton
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“The true reason (says Blackstone) of requiring any qualification, with regard to property in voters, is to exclude such persons, as are in so mean a situation, that they are esteemed to have no will of their own.”
“If it were probable that every man would give his vote freely, and without influence of any kind, then, upon the true theory and genuine principles of liberty, every member of the community, however poor, should have a vote… But since that can hardly be expected, in persons of indigent fortunes, or such as are under the immediate dominion of others, all popular states have been obliged to establish certain qualifications, whereby, some who are suspected to have no will of their own, are excluded from voting; in order to set other individuals, whose wills may be supposed independent, more thoroughly upon a level with each other.”
– Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, 1775
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“[We gave you] a [restricted-vote] republic, if you can keep it.”
– Ben Franklin, 1787
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“[We gave you] a [restricted-vote] republic, if you can take it back.”
– Ben Franklin, [2023]
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“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
– Declaration of Independence, 1776
The Tea Party was a protest against action.
Contra your claims meaningful protest against inaction are rare and rarely successful.
Especially for government when in doubt – inaction is the right course.
The odds are HEAVILY that the status quo is less dangerous than untried change.
“Disruptive protest has been a part of the benefits of living in this country. ”
Yes, but you have spent the past two years denying that.
Were you lying ?
“Remember legislators fleeing to another state to prevent a quorum?”
Happened many times – all democrats.
“Republicans and democrats have protested that way”
Nope.
” and it’s also a disruption of legislative norms.”
Yup, and in many instances warrants were issued for the arrest of the rogue legislators.
BTW no one would have objected had these legislators protested by not showing up.
Democracy at its base is government exercised through the will of the majority. Its subjects have long been admonished to abide what the majority rules, if it is to endure as a principled government of the people, by the people, for the people. If what the majority wills is not what the minority prefers then the minority is left to persuade, cajole, and bargain for what it desires until it becomes a majority. With the irregular actions taken by the Tennessee dissidents along with that of those who encourage them, the antithesis of democracy has set its footing.
“ Democracy at its base is government exercised through the will of the majority.”
Wait, wait, wait. I thought this was not a democracy. I thought this was a representative Republic. Aren’t libertarians and republicans always complaining about the “tyranny of the majority?”
Here it seems they are perfectly ok with it as long as they are in the majority. I don’t recall calling libertarians and republicans ‘dissidents’ when they are in the minority. Ironically what these legislators and their supporters did is exactly what many libertarians and conservatives support all the time. Now it’s somehow…wrong? My, my, how fast they apply double standards.
Representative democracy is the proper term, not “representative Republic.” A representative democracy is a republic, and it is exactly what illiberals are against.
A majority in a legislature not wanting to regulate persons’ means for self protection to the extremes that a minority would is not a tyranny. The tyranny comes into being when that minority gets its way.
You have a way of carrying your own bullhorn, don’t you?
“ A majority in a legislature not wanting to regulate persons’ means for self protection to the extremes that a minority would is not a tyranny. The tyranny comes into being when that minority gets its way.”
When the majority of VOTERS wants the majority in a legislature to regulate a person’s means for self protection that is not working is not a tyranny. It’s funny how conservatives and libertarians get very narrow in how they define certain issues when they face the limitations of their own political philosophy. Libertarians and conservatives when they are in the minority are always crying foul over the evils of the tyranny of the majority when it’s democrats who are in power in a legislature. It seems they become quite the hypocrites, that is why there is wide-spread criticism of their actions.
“When the majority of VOTERS wants the majority in a legislature to regulate a person’s means for self protection that is not working is not a tyranny”
NO that is not tyranny.
Tyranny is when the majority violates the rights of a majority by doing what YOU want.
Don;t take polls after disasters, and take polls that ACTUALLY tell peopel the truth – such as that your measures will not change anything one iota.
Ypu can lie to people and get them to agree to nearly anything.
“It’s funny how conservatives and libertarians get very narrow in how they define certain issues when they face the limitations of their own political philosophy. ”
does this Diarrhea of words without a constipational thought mean anything ?
“Libertarians and conservatives when they are in the minority are always crying foul over the evils of the tyranny of the majority when it’s democrats who are in power in a legislature.”
Correct – they seek to STOP democrats from using force to restrict peoples rights.
“It seems they become quite the hypocrites, that is why there is wide-spread criticism of their actions.”
How So ? Jones was looking to use FORCE to limit peoples rights – Jones is the tyrant.
Worse still he thought he could do so as the MINORITY.
Isn’t the tyranny of the minority worse than the tryanny of the majority ?
You are the hypocrit.
We get this garbage from you all the time.
These stupid arguments that up is down and down is up.
J6 was an insurrection – but TN and the other three instances where left wing nuts overrun state capitols in the past month – those are democracy in action.
I have no problems with normalizing Jones’s conduct.
Lets accept that legislators of either party are free to bring bullhorns to the legislature to shutdown government until they get what they want.
You do not think Republicans can take advantage of that too ?
“Here it seems they are perfectly ok with it as long as they are in the majority. I don’t recall calling libertarians and republicans ‘dissidents’ when they are in the minority.”
I have no problem being called a dissident.
“Ironically what these legislators and their supporters did is exactly what many libertarians and conservatives support all the time.”
Was there a single bullhorn used inside the Capitol on J6 ?
I support the right of these protestors to protest.
If legislators wish to remain within the legislature or congress, then they must follow the rules of that body.
Pelosi made lots of stupid rules that McCarthy has gotten rid of.
Republicans followed those rules.
Democrats are having problems following less restrictive rules.
Regardless there is a difference between the “tennessee three” and the protestors a TN.
If you wish to act like a protestor – then you do so from the outside.
Capitol police had the authority to remove and arrest protestors that disrupted the proceedings.
They did NOT have the power to arrest them for protesting.
Conversely the CP did NOT have the power to remove and arrest legislators
But the legislature has tohe power to remove disruptive legislators.
As I said before – I would be perfectly happy with a system in which their conduct was acceptable.
How about if Sen. Hawley. and Paul and Cruz take a bullhorn to the senate floor and refused to yield ?
We could shutdown the Senate for the next 2 years.
Decide what you want the rules to be – and then live witht he same rules for republicans as democrats.
Now it’s somehow…wrong? My, my, how fast they apply double standards.
The FACt is that for a LONG time Democrats have been actively normalizing lawlessness and chaos.
That is only temporarily effective. Whatever one side allows will become the norm for both.
Whether you like it or not the anti-majoritarian rules of the congress are a major factor in tamping down civility – both in congress and in the country.
The more power you give the majority the less civil the country will be.
“…[The] will of the majority.”
– RAH
_____
Are you out of your ——- mind?
National Debt =- $32,000,000,000,000.00
National Unfunded Liabilities – $100,000,000,000,000.00
The will of the majority, you say?
_________________________
“More than 100 million U.S. households, or 61% of all taxpayers, paid no federal income taxes last year, according to the Tax Policy Center, Urban Institute & Brookings.”
– CNBC
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Never were dependents and parasites intended to vote in America, they don’t even pay taxes – America is a restricted-vote republic.
Turnout in 1788 was 11.6% – Vote criteria were generally male, European, 21, 50 lbs. Sterling/50 acres – The Constitution provides for States to implement vote criteria – Everything Lincoln did was and remains illicit, unconstitutional and illegitimate – Lincoln was high criminally derelict and negligent in his failure to enforce extant immigration law – Unconstitutional, brutal military force, tyranny and oppression are not enumerated by the Constitution as integral components of the amendment process.
“ It did not matter that Rubin and members like Rep. Bill Pascrell demanded expulsion of dozens of members for their voting the wrong way on certification.
There were no cries of disgust from Harris or others even when Pascrell later called for prevention of 120 GOP members from being seated for signing an amicus brief that the Democrats disagreed with.”
There is a difference between calling for expulsion or calling for certain actions and acting on it. Turley knows the difference, but the hypocrite in him needs to ignore the fact that Republicans have not only called for siimilar actions, they have also acted on them and Turley as usual remained silent and complacent.
This was a insurrection used as a distraction from the fact a trans woman shot her way into a school, then shot and killed three 9 year olds and 3 adults.
Do not forget that fact.
Where are the killer’s “manifesto” and other writings? They are being withheld for no good reason.
Daniel,
In the past, I have been against the publication of killer’s manifestos.
However, I think giving insight into their motivations may shed light into the mentality and serve as possible red flags in other future killers.
Not saying it has to be someone trans. Take the Las Vegas shooter. The FBI is saying he was mad at the casinos, but if he had a manifesto might give a indication of what his motivation was.
Release the tranifesto!
It seems to me that the writings of killers who can be linked to white supremacists or the right more generally are routinely released, and quickly. The same should be done here. It may be that there is no ideological motive at all, but the public should be allowed to assess that for itself after seeing what is there. The government cannot be trusted any longer.
In addition, if the killer was on medication that too should be disclosed.
Transgender youth in a number of instances are likely to combine mental illness, medication and a sense of grievance. They appear to be disproportionately responsible for mass shootings and planned mass shootings in recent years.
What’s your actual evidence of disproportionality?
~140 mass shootings so far this year: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
How many committed by transgender youth?
“There is a difference between calling for expulsion or calling for certain actions and acting on it.”
A very bizzare argument.
So you are saying hypocracy is OK. But NOT being hypocritical is offensive ?
I presume that given the power to do so people will do what they say.
If democrats can make a binding agreement to NEVER do anything they say they will do.
I could vote for them.
Professor Turley: “I do not agree with the expulsion of the two members as opposed to other sanctions.”
Byron York (he’s no commie) agrees with our professor. Perhaps the expelled could be readmitted and censured. If they do it again, then expulsion–that includes the white legislator. Steady escalation is easier to defend.
Speaking of bullhorns, it occurred to me last night that the trans movement seems strangely powerful and absurdly demanding, given their actual numbers in society. Then it hit me. What’s driving this is a smoke-stack industry known as leftist activism.
Leftist activism is like a shark; it has to keep moving or it will die. Having gotten gay marriage, etc., they need a new “current thing,” or their fundraising dries up. That’s in the nature of leftist activism. Defending established morals is unnecessary, and Heaven knows there’s no money in that.
So presto! Trans activism. The activists now have a new fundraising vehicle. That explains the strangely powerful part.
But the challenge with trans is that under the law, nobody is actually being persecuted. There’s been sex-change operations and transvestites for decades, and nobody cared. The trans were such a small community, nobody even noticed.
So the activists devised fake crimes: kids can’t get reassignment on demand and adults aren’t accepting trans prescriptions for the law and English language. These are ridiculous demands, but the activists can sell it to any pie-eyed idiot that watches MSNBC. That explains the absurdly demanding part.
This isn’t really about the trans at all. This is about keeping the nation’s leftwing activists well-oiled, no matter how absurd the cause.
Ignore them. Fake causes don’t deserve real attention.
Diogenes,
I think you have a valid point there.
Activism is big business. Look at how many are getting fake degrees in DEI. Look at how many new DEI positions are being opened when they are superfluous.
And what do they actually do?
Nothing.
Well, aside from some totally useless monthly training that no one pays attention to or wants to even be there.
Wokeism, another way to get fools separated from their money.
True, Upstate. A whole lot of grift going on. The lefties do love their beamers and vacation homes.
This was a insurrection used as a distraction from the fact a trans woman shot her way into a school, then shot and killed three 9 year olds and 3 adults.
Do not forget that fact.
Kids died, even when there were armed teachers, two, on campus. None did a damn thing. Even thoughts and prayers are equally useless. What was and is still a basic truth is that the shooter had every right to buy all those weapons and contemplate the actions that occurred. What is certainly a sad reality is that it’s going to happen again. Weapons are so easy to obtain. I wouldn’t be surprised if people stopped asking if they were. Just accept the fact that they had the right to have them regardless of how they got them.
This was a insurrection used as a distraction from the fact a trans woman shot her way into a school, then shot and killed three 9 year olds and 3 adults.
Do not forget that fact.
The claim that there were armed teachers on campus has not been verified.
So far it is an ambiguous claim from the 911 recording.
No actual teacher with guns has been identified so far.
“What was and is still a basic truth is that the shooter had every right to buy all those weapons and contemplate the actions that occurred.”
Correct. That is how things work.
“What is certainly a sad reality is that it’s going to happen again.”
Correct, and again and again as it has for as long as humans have existed.
The life expectance of man for most of his 300K of existance has been about 25 years.
The primary cause of death for most of that time has been violence.
“Weapons are so easy to obtain.”
As are cars, knives, the ingrediants to make chlorine gas, I bet you have that in your home now.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if people stopped asking if they were. Just accept the fact that they had the right to have them regardless of how they got them.”
Is this an argument ?
Is there a limit to the number of pencils you can have ? You can only use one at a time.
Arguments are supposed to make sense.
Try again.
The Democrats know exactly what Democracy is but the mounting evidence shows that the don’t believe in Democracy at all. The first idea in a Democratic state is to let each person have his say and not be shouted down or put in prison due to his opinion. The Democratic Party is encouraging the shouting down of the opposition and imprisonment of the people who stand in opposition. Let me see. What do fascist do? They shout down those that they oppose and they put them in prison until they confess so they can get a record of successful prosecutions to show to the Commissars. Just because you can vote it doesn’t mean you live in a Democracy. The people in Cuba can vote. This is where the leftist in the white house wants to take us.
TiT,
The parallels of Mao’s Culture Revolution to what the Dems are doing is truly disturbing.
The good professor is pointing this out daily for us to show how unhinged the Dems are becoming.
I full expect them to escalate their hateful rhetoric and rage to the point they will see using violence to silence anyone as justifiable.
They are saying it out loud and in their actions.
I think we will see a day where long time, traditional Democrats like the good professor, Bill Maher, Elon Musk officially turn in their Dem membership cards and go Independent.
“ These legislators were upset because they are in the minority and lack sufficient votes to get what they want.
They were protesting the democratic process, not advancing its principles in shutting down the floor.”
No, that is not what they were doing. That is a gross mischaracterization of what their purpose was. Those legislators were protesting the lack of action from the legislature on any meaningful solutions to the constant school shootings and violence involving guns, They were airing their frustration and the frustration of their constituents by the most direct means available. Being disruptive and bringing attention to the issue. It’s as American as apple pie.
Turley is clearly focusing on the wrong issue. The legislators protesting in are not the problem. It’s the Republican legislators who went ahead and deprived voters of their representation in order to send a message. That being, “shut up and sit down”. It was a very authoritarian move and very undemocratic which is why everyone is criticizing the Republican legislators. Even some of the more conservative posters there thought expulsion was too extreme for what they did. The consequence of that action exposed the real nature of many republican legislators in TN. Many are still racists and party zealots who have no problem going full authoritarian in order to make a point.
Thankfully they expelled legislators are being unanimously voted back as interim legislators until the special election which would be essentially a F—k You to those who chose to expel. It shouldn’t have happened and at a minimum they should have been censured. Turley disagrees with the expulsion but stupidly argues that it was the protest that was the problem. No, it was the Republican legislature’s open willingness to rob voters of their representation because they didn’t like being called out for not doing something about violence involving guns.
That is a gross mischaracterization of what their purpose was.
More mind reading. No shred of evidence use to supposedly correct the host.
If you call a person wrong, do the work and provide countering evidence.
Iowan2, “ If you call a person wrong, do the work and provide countering evidence.”
The evidence is sitting there in plain sight. That’s why Turley’s comment is so obviously a gross mischaracterization. Turley claim they were protesting the democratic process which is not true. They were protesting the lack of action by the legislature. Two very different things. They got expelled because they were being disruptive not because they committed some heinous crime. They were exercising their 1st amendment rights and the legislature decide to shut them up by expelling them. Weirdly enough this would have been seen as some tyrannical move if it were a democrat controlled legislature and the expelled legislators were Republican. Turley would be singing a very different tune. He would have been crying foul over democrats stifling conservative views instead. This is why Turley is a first class hypocrite.
“Turley claim they were protesting the democratic process which is not true. They were protesting the lack of action by the legislature. Two very different things. ”
Nope, TWO EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS.
The majority chosing not to act stupidly IS democratic process.
“They got expelled because they were being disruptive not because they committed some heinous crime. ”
That is usually why people get expelled. If they had committed a crime they would be in jail.
“They were exercising their 1st amendment rights and the legislature decide to shut them up by expelling them.”
Nope, Benn through this before.
The first amendment does not include the right to silence others
But lets presume that it does. I am sure that there are atleast 3 republican senators that would be willing to use a bullhorn to disrupt the senate.,
“Weirdly enough this would have been seen as some tyrannical move if it were a democrat controlled legislature and the expelled legislators were Republican.”
Actually Pelosi did nearly as egregious actions for more trivia “offenses”, and she had to create new rules to do so.
“Turley would be singing a very different tune. He would have been crying foul over democrats stifling conservative views instead. This is why Turley is a first class hypocrite.”
Turley is doing fine, the massive hypocrisy is yours.
This was very little different from J6. But you are responding radically differently.
@Svelaz: RE:”No, that is not what they were doing”……. It is clear from the video of his return that he was very much enjoying and engendering the ‘kindergarten’ histrionics’ of the street mob on a Spring Break.. If that is what these Tennessee constituencies will have representing them in the legislature then so be it. Unless the electorate demands otherwise, look for it to continue. The goal is to seize power and control, and retain it.
You are not thinking it through for your best interests. Be careful about advocating for unruly disruptions as a way to bring attention to issues. It really is not as American as apple pie, and it is certainly not something you should want levied against on your interests.
If they were protesting the lack of meaningful action -= then they were spitting into the wind.
There is not a single left wing nut proposal that has any evidence of working.
Railing at republicans because there is no magic wand that will solve a problem is just stupid.
If republicans are thwarting magical thinking – more power to them.
You keep pretending that there is something to be done.
Or atleast that YOUR idiotic proposals which have never worked will this time.