Below is my column in the Hill on the difficult schedule facing Special Counsel Jack Smith in the prosecution of former President Donald Trump. He is also facing a greater problem of public perception. While critics often speak hopefully of “Trump fatigue” among voters, prosecutors are dealing with a Justice fatigue. A new poll shows that less than a majority of citizens believe Trump was correctly charged. An ABC/Ipsos poll found that 48% of Americans think Trump was rightfully charged while 35% do not think he should have been indicted. Another 17% was unsure. Prosecutors were likely hoping for more than a plurality given the details of the indictment. Worse yet, according to the poll, 47% of Americans think the charges against Trump are politically motivated. These polls indicate that Smith is not exactly singing to an empty room . . . but it is far from full.
Here is the column:
In his public statement following the release of the 44-page indictment against former President Donald Trump, Special Counsel Jack Smith gave the rote declaration of ethical and nonpolitical conduct by his team. But one line stood out: “My office will seek a speedy trial on this matter.”
Smith is not just a man on a mission; he’s also a man on a deadline. Every criminal defendant is entitled to a speedy trial under the Sixth Amendment. Under the federal law, a speedy trial would start within roughly two months.
There is a reason Smith would love to see an August trial. If the litigation pushed the trial within a few months of the election, most judges would delay it until after Nov. 5, 2024. That would mean that Trump could avoid a conviction and, if elected, he could give himself a prospective pardon. That would mean that there would be no judgment against him.
Smith knows that the Sixth Amendment is designed to help defendants, not prosecutors. Moreover, defendants routinely waive their right to a speedy trial because they need time.
Trump needs time in a bad way, and his lawyers would be insane not to waive. In fact, Trump just lost two more lawyers on the day of the indictment’s release.
More importantly, this indictment is a heart attack on a plate. The team has much to do after the hyperventilation passes.
The problem for the defense is that it must run the table on all 37 counts. The government clearly count-stacked to maximize the chances of a conviction. With a 76-year-old client, the defense attorneys have to play a perfect game. Even one conviction on these counts could bring a sentence of 10 to 12 years.
Moreover, the indictment is full of legal jump-scares in the form of pictures and transcripts. Like most people, jurors are visual creatures. Pictures of potentially classified documents being stored next to the commode will leave a lasting impression.
Most damaging is the audiotape that is transcribed in the indictment. On the tape, Trump tells two individuals interviewing him for a book that he has a classified Department of Defense document regarding an attack on Iran. Trump admits that it is secret and “as president, I could have declassified, but now I can’t.”
This is damaging on various levels. For one thing, it contradicts his prior claims to have declassified all of the documents. It also suggests that the government has a motive for trial.
Although many pundits bizarrely claimed that Trump was intending to sell classified material, the government suggests a more straightforward motive: The documents were trophies for Trump. The indictment portrays him as bragging about his possession of the attack plan.
For almost two years, I have written that the most serious threat against Trump would come out of Mar-a-Lago. That torpedo has now hit. Trump’s team is fooling itself if it does not recognize that this has caused damage below the waterline.
All indictments tend to diminish with time and adversarial process. As of this writing, we have not heard yet from the defense on these allegations. However, the indictment is full of quotes from lawyers and others made under oath or to federal investigators. If false, either would be grounds for criminal charges.
It could also get worse. Trump’s aide, Walt Nauta, has also been charged. According to reports, the Justice Department pressured Nauta and his lawyer for him to flip as a government witness. Indeed, the defense has charged that prosecutor Jay Bratt suggested that the Justice Department might sink Nauta attorney Stanley Woodward’s application for a federal judgeship unless his client cooperates and changes his testimony.
This indictment is clearly designed to concentrate Nauta’s mind on cooperation. If he were to flip (as the person who allegedly moved or concealed these documents), Trump would face a potentially insurmountable case.
The problem for the Justice Department is that it has made itself unbelievable in the eyes of many in the public. After years of overt bias and targeting of Trump, polls show that the majority of Americans view the FBI as a politically compromised organization.
The use of this type of speaking or “talking” indictment is clearly directed more at the public than at the court or the defendant. The Justice Department usually prefers a bare-bones indictment, to withhold a full account of its evidence before it has to turn it over to the defense. Smith wanted to show the public that it can trust the government, despite its behavior over the last seven years, as shown most recently by the report of Special Counsel John Durham.
This is also the reason Smith turned this indictment into a virtual picture book for public consumption. The Justice Department has left little room for trust among many citizens, and Smith is hoping that these images can change that perspective.
But this indictment is likely to do better in the court of law than it does in the court of public opinion. Just as many have Trump fatigue, many also have DOJ fatigue. This is the third consecutive election in which Trump is being hounded by allegations of crimes. It was immediately preceded by a clear political prosecution in New York State. In other words, the DOJ may have long ago lost the room for this production.
That does not mean that Trump can face this deluge of 37 counts and come out dry. The odds favor the government in this type of case.
Yet the question is whether there will be a case to prosecute after November 2024. Indeed, whatever the merits of a self-pardon, Republican candidates are already indicating that they would also consider pardoning Trump themselves if they are elected.
That is why Trump may have a better chance running on this case than defending against it.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can follow him on Twitter @JonathanTurley.
If equal equal treatment under the law was still relevant, then Trump is the victim of a corrupt judicial system.
BTW 47 counts = an extraordinarily weak case, typical of FBI creating a blizzard of ancillary counts on top of one serious, but wobbly charge and using the “weight” of them together to bankrupt the defense, or intimidate them to cop a plea, thus preventing the defense from even attempting the impossible task of defending all of them because no one can afford the ocean of lawyers the FBI has, and as we know now, the FBI can lie with impunity.
In my view the way the FBI maintains its North Korean level of convictions is by intimidation to force pleas to phony charges.
Jonathan: You are not the only one erroneously claiming a “majority” of Americans don’t trust the FBI or oppose the criminal prosecution of Donald Trump. Kari Lake, who thinks she is the real Governor of Arizona, was on Steve Bannon’s , “War Room” podcast yesterday bizarrely claiming: “If they think they are going to hurt, lay a finger on our president–President Trump [former president!]–they’re going to have to come through me. And I made a mistake, I said 75 million others just like me. I think it’s more like 300 million others just like me”.
According to Lake, if the US population is about 334 million, that means 9 out of 10 Americans will be protesting Trump’s second arrest today–even many of the 81 million who voted for Biden in 2020! Lake got her math wrong and is jerking us around. And you are in good company with Lake by falsely claiming in your column two days ago (“Trying Trump”, 6/11/23) that “a majority of Americans harbor serious doubts and the independence and integrity of the FBI and skeptical of the prosecution of Trump”. The poll you cited actually showed the opposite!
But you are right on one thing, the first casualty of war IS the truth.
What this leave the nation with is this: I as a legal, white, taxpaying, honest citizen would not give an FBI agent directions to an ice cream parlor without a lawyer, two witnesses, and a stenographer. They cannot be trusted. They are “thug world in suits”.
Trump did exactly what he is accused of. And what he did was clearly illegal. The MAGAs are arguing that Trump is above the law.
I contend that Trump has nothing to worry about as the case will *never* go to trial. Given how many opportunities there are for procedural motions in this case, a trial would take place after the 2024 election. At that point there are two outcomes:
A Republican wins and Trump is pardoned or pardons himself should he win. Professor Turley considered this scenario in the above piece. Likewise, a Republican AG could drop the case or pursue only a minor portion of the case.
A Democrat wins. This is the more interesting case. A Democratic president surely would not want the news coverage in 2025 and 2026 to be all about the Trump trial. The trial itself and the event leading up to it would be the media event of the century (if not the millennium).
That would make whoever is in the White House look small and ineffective. It would also make it impossible to get anything done. The logical move would be for the Democrat to pardon Trump and avoid the media circus.
Trump and his team could use the trial and the event leading up to it to vilify the Biden administration and its henchmen at the DOJ and FBI. The trial will provide Trump with a huge platform to attack Biden and the DOJ. Even mere motion play would sow distrust. Consider what would happen if Trump merely sought discovery concerning communications between the special counsel, Garland and Biden as to whether to charge Trump. Sure, the motion could be denied by the court or stonewalled by the administration. However, as the public views it, the government’s refusal is evidence that the DOJ, of which much of the public already distrusts, is covering up.
Finally, and this is important, this is a case that will be talked about for the rest of our lives and then some. It’s a lot like the Kennedy assassination. Sixty years later there’s still conflicting theories as to whodunnit and why. The Trump documents case has plenty of angles for historians and conspiracy theorists alike. Was Joe Biden on the Grassy Knoll (metaphorically) directing Garland and Smith in a political prosecution? What did the president known and when did he know it? One wonders if this is the legacy that Biden/Garland/Smith want to have?
My guess is that if a Democrat wins in 2024, he/she/they will quickly pardon Trump or have the DOJ drop the case. After 2024, the case is politically useless and who needs the controversy that a trial would bring.
I doubt that a Democrat will pardon Trump. It was a mistake for Ford to pardon Nixon. Politicians need to understand that they’re not above the law.
That has been Turley’s argument all along, Trump is above the law. In the coming days Turley will throw everything he can against the wall, including the BS today, it will all go away.
Dear Prof Turley,
‘Trump lawyers’ are getting as scarce as hen’s teeth. Even the dogs don’t like him.
Who can blame them after Special Counsel Smith, the GOAT of all Special Counsels, ‘pierced the attorney-client’ privilege with a president’s lawyers! I thought that was sacrosanct, for obvious reasons.
*the wheels of justice are squeaking .. . and squeaky wheels get the grease.
Perhaps a better term than “Trump Fatique” is “Sarkozy Syndrome”. Nicolas Sarkozy, the French President from 2007 – 2012, wore out voters with his frenetic pace and mercurial temper. Sarkozy did not win a second term. Voters chose François Hollande, a man so meek and mild, his nickname was Flanby, being a bland custard dessert popular in nursing homes. Fast forward a few years, switch out the names, and we have an aging, bland Biden defeating a volatile Trump as proof that history repeats itself. That proof continues with Sarkozy being convicted of corruption charges in 2021 and being sentenced to 3 years with 2 of those years suspended. Sarkozy becomes the first French President to receive a custodial sentence.
Frankly I am tired of Trump. Did he do a lot of good things for the America, Yes he did. Is he politically and personally stupid because he cannot control himself or his mouth. Yes he is. He lets his ego and narcissism run wild instead of using some judgement. From the apparent recordings that they have it would appear that he was bragging more than elucidating. Why carry off all these records and give your enemies a huge advantage to go after you, especially if you were planning to stage a comeback. A single moment of thought might have said “play it safe here and now because we have bigger fish to fry down the road”. Low profile, rebuild and then come back free and clear.
In other words, use judgement rather than instant gratification and childish rantings and literally taking your ball (records, classified and non classified) and going home to Florida.
He has said that he did not think the “Swamp” was as strong and pervasive as it is yet he continues to act like it cannot touch him, when it obviously can. He never altered his actions and behavior to account for such a pervasive amount of corruption. When you keep acting the same and keep getting the same bad result, and change nothing, that is true stupidity. Especially when you have enough support to maybe alter your approach and come from a different direction.
Are most of these charges both federal and state, politically motivated? Well of course they are. Still does not mean they are not real and they might put you in prison.
Joe Biden is stupid because he is not that bright and he is demented, and has no real moral compass. But it does not mean he cannot be corrupt, mean , harsh, and far less than “Good Ol Joe”. He plays a role just like an actor. I see numerous actors who are millionaires who can’t hold a coherent conversation, some even act for a living, the rest are politicians.
Trump has the intelligence to do far more but his personality traits and deficits always get in the way.
If we elect another Republican President who intends to parole Trump, I would require Trump to sign a release statement where he left politics totally, retired to business alone and never commented on politics again, otherwise he would be in violation of his parole and returned to prison.
I would expect the same of any Democrat, including Biden, if he ever gets indicted and convicted.
Really well thought out and written, conveys my thoughts to a T.
Thanks
TIRED OF TRUMP!
Well, GEB, that’s a rather draconian solution. But I have been wondering whether something along those lines might be the end game of the Democrats, i.e., structuring a settlement whereby former President Trump agrees to never seek political office.
They can convict an even send him to jail, but until they give the same treatment to Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden — for much bigger and more dangerous crimes — they will never gain the trust of the American people. This indictment, regardless of the outcome, will always have the stench of political persecution. And America will never recover from it. That’s the bigger crime here.
All of this stemming from a dispute between President Trump and the National Archives over documents that he retained pursuant to the Presidential Records Act. Meanwhile, Scranton Joe and little Hunter receive round-the-clock protection of the DOJ and the FBI. No indictments, not even FBI search warrants to find out what’s in those 1850 boxes of records at the University of Delaware. Nothing. The double standard is astounding.
These aren’t Presidential Records. See 44 U.S. Code § 2201(2)(B)(i).
Correct. Sen. Biden was not president when he absconded with all those sensitive, classified records.
And Trump is not President now.
Biden let the FBI search without a search warrant, to find all documents that needed to be returned. Trump obstructed even after being subpoenaed, having Nauta move boxes all over to prevent all of the documents from being returned to the government. There’s audiotape and testimony about Trump showing documents to people without clearances. The two situations aren’t comparable.
>”And Trump is not president now.”
True enough. But he was when he took them .. . and that has to count for something.
They were subpoenaed when he was no longer President, and he obstructed their return.
Hillary destroyed her evidence when subpoenaed. She should be sitting in Prison today if we actually had equal justice under the law, but we don’t.
“Biden let the FBI search without a search warrant”
You forgot, instead of the FBI searching he had his lawyers take a look. Joe Briben is protected by the DOJ. If he weren’t he would be in jail today. That you don’t know these things proves how little you know and how many errors you make.
“There’s audiotape and testimony about Trump showing documents to people without clearances.”
You don’t know if Trump showed them anything. Ruffling papers doesn’t mean that something is being seen by another. You are such a fool.
“Pictures of potentially classified documents being stored next to the commode . . .”
You mean as opposed to such documents being left abandoned in a closet and garage, for years? By a politician who had no right to take or keep them.
Or as opposed to: The politician’s son using classified information as chum for a bribery scheme, to fund the father’s kleptocratic family.
Seriously. Isn’t this getting a bit ridiculous?
If, in fact, the accusations of tape recordings incriminating the Bidens can be substantiated, then we are truly a nation treading water in a cesspool whilst the ‘Deep State’ runs circles around it in a power boat making waves. Far worse is the significant portion of the electorate standing on the perimeter refusing to come to its aid.
Once upon a time before government and bureaucracy metastasized, presidents owned what they’d created and so could cart all off at will. No more. Tricky Dick changed all of that. Therefore, we’re now entangled in the hidden, or not so hidden, costs of good intentions. The use of electronics for communications only compounds the mass of material, adding the visuals to the written word. There’s what’s called The Swamp in D.C. and then there’s this swamp created from good intentions. What’s classified? What’s not? What’s to be seen by my eyes but not by yours? Who knows? Who’s to decide?
While we’re at it, let’s return to those days of yore, of Woodrow Wilson, the Constitution’s foe, to invoke the Espionage Act.
As for Trump, a creature of the business world, the intricacies of The Swamp were unknown to him. They’re not now.
The republic staggers about like a drunken sailor.
There are two ways to look at Trump, his personality or his politics. If you think his personality is more important than his politics, you are a naif.
show trials in China, USSR and 1930’s Germany…didn’t CARE about appearance….and Fascist Democrats don’t!
It is RUTHLESS LAWLESS POWER! We are there…it is WORSE than you think
Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch put it well….”it is the process” Imagine anyone with less than a couple billion with standing the Democrat Criminal Conspiracy
The only solution is 50% cut of federal government…then moving 75% OUT OF DC…it is LOST!
DOJ fatigue?
It interferes in one election after another doing the Democrat’s bidding, ignores its constitutional duties, is rife with bias, prejudice, and is corrupt to its very core.
Yet the Professor tries to be polite when discussing a terminal cancer without mention of some possible interventions or perhaps even various cures.
Here we are….seeing a repeat of 2016 and 2020 right before our eyes….and of course no one in the DOJ or Congress is taking a stand to stop yet another abuse of a citizen by the DOJ.
Oh….sorry….It is the DOJ’s gross failure to investigate and prosecute a much greater harm than Trump could ever pose…..and that is the Biden Crime Family.
Trump and his documents problem is so trivial when compared to Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton and their problems…..well what should be problems but are not due to the DOJ.
Trump’s Lawyers should drag this case out as long as possible….using every legal procedure, motion, appeal, and just as the DOJ stacked the charges…..they should stack the Appeals….all the way to the Supreme Court and watch the DOJ wither on the vine while they await the outcome of an Appeal.
The DOJ wants a speedy trial for Trump….yet will not even look at the Bidens.
What does it take for the DOJ to arrive at having probable cause to investigate the Bidens?
Hunter’s Laptop, 170 SARS Reports, Confidential Sources, Whistleblowers, photographs, video, sworn testimony of people directly involved in the business operations……yet Merrick Garland remains blind, deaf, and dumb.
Did the DOJ go for speedy trials of the January 6th Defendants?
It appears as usual the DOJ wants its Kate and Edith too!
The only way the Common Man can show his disgust with the DOJ is to vote for Trump and against the DOJ and see him in the White House.
Trump gets my vote exactly because of the FBI, the DOJ, AG Garland, and Joe Biden.
“. . . prosecutors are dealing with a [in]Justice fatigue.”
If there is a trial, I think it likely that Trump will lose on at least some of the counts, unless there is jury nullification. I am assuming that a few of the documents he retained could put the national defence at risk if revealed to the wrong people.
If those documents were prepared by the military or other government department they are not presidential records under the PRA even if they were received by Trump.
As Barr said, there is also no universe in which they could be considered personal records.
The so-called sock drawer case does not hold that the President has untrammelled discretion to designate records as personal without review by the courts. It was instead decided on the basis that Judicial Watch did not have a redressable claim against the Archive, because the Archive did not possess the documents and could not compel their delivery by Clinton.
Accordingly, these documents were government records that Trump was not authorised by law to obtain or retain.
The issue with this case as I see it is not whether it could be brought successfully, but whether it should be brought. That is essentially a political and prudential question.
Given the backdrop of multiple fraudulent efforts to get Trump (Russiagate, two impeachments, the NY indictment), and the non-prosecution of Hillary Clinton for conduct involving classified documents that created far greater risks because of the probability of hacking, and the concurrent similar issues involving Joe Biden, and the failure to take any serious action against Hunter Biden despite five years of investigation, and the burying of the laptop ahead of the 2020 election, and the burying of credible allegations of bribery of Joe Biden, the singular pursuit of Trump here would appear political to any reasonable person.
Brilliant perspective Jonathan 😺
I’d like to see Professor Turley dismiss the arguments that Mark Levin presented yesterday on his nightly show. Basically, accordiing to the Presidential Records Act, ALL documents that the president deems are personal records ARE PERSONAL RECORDS. Period. The Presidential Records Act doesn’t distinguish between classified and unclassified document or mementos. It states that ALL records that a president deems personal belong to him. This was affirmed by Judge Amy Berman Jackson (an Obama-appointed, Trump-hating federal judge in the Clinton Sock Drawer case). So… there is NO CASE to be made that Trump violated any act with regard to the documents. In addition, the National Archives and the President have 5 years to negotiate the return of any records to the archives before any court action can be taken. And if it does wind up in court, it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. And, Levin basically said that the Espionage Act of 1917 does not apply to the president or former president. So it appears that even Professor Turley (along with Bill Barr, John Bolton and others) is resorting to hyping this matter so as to be able to provide opinions in newspapers and make TV appearances. This matter should be short circuited and dismissed because of the Presidential Records Act. What I will say is that Trump is a popular topic on opinion politics shows and this will prove to be a bonanza for all of cable news, radio, and social media. I hope the judge in this case has the guts to make the justice department demonstrate why this situation is NOT governed by the Presidential Records Act. If the government loses its argument there, it will appeal to the SCOTUS and we will finally get a decision about the Presidential Records Act. But Judge Berman’s decision in the Clinton Sock Drawer case, and the affirmation in this case would basically destroy the government’s case. SCOTUS may not even take up the case.
The documents at issue here are neither presidential records nor personal records under the PRA, and the sock drawer case was decided on the basis that the claim was not redressable, not on the basis that the President has unreviewable discretion to designate any document he wishes as personal.
I doubt Trump will be able to argue successfully that he was entitled to retain these documents under the PRA as a matter of law. If the document could put the national defense at risk, I don’t see the PRA as giving him a defense against 18 USC 793(e).
As I wrote earlier, the real question here is whether this claim should have been brought, as a political and prudential matter. For the reasons I gave, I think not.
The sock-drawer case involved taped interviews conducted by a man writing a presidential history book–interviews with Clinton. He gave Clinton a courtesy copy. These tapes were the property of the author–not the NARA and not “presidential records” because they had nothing to do with Clinton’s acts as president. Why won’t alt-right give this matter a rest, anyway? Why do they keep lying about it?
Except that the PRA does not say any of that. The term “personal records” is well defined, and “anything the President says” is not the definition.
§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records
The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.
https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html
The past years, especially now, have been like a like a never ending and bizarre rerun of the Roadrunner and the Coyote. Then George Soros, Zuckerberg, Hollywood glitter rich, the media, etc, are “Doctor Evil” plotting world domination.
“Before, I thought they were crazy, but now I see “they’re” nuts…..I thank you.”
Wake me up when this is over.
This administration is truly Team Crazy, dangerous…..and evil.
not the administration…the ENTIRE Democrat and RINO establishment!
I don’t mind that Trump is indicted, the guy is an idiot, a braggard, a juvenile and a narcissist that clearly did what is alleged, I hate that Hilary and Joe Biden have NOT been indicted for the same and/or worse. The (d)ifference in treatment is a serious problem for this country going forward.
I don’t mind that Trump is indicted, the guy is an idiot, a braggard, a juvenile and a narcissist that clearly did what is alleged, I hate that Hilary and Joe Biden have NOT been indicted for the same and/or worse.
Agreed, as I never liked the man as a candidate. I read his book in college, learned a few points, and chucked it. When he beat the other RNC candidates in the primaries I was shocked. That he won the electoral college vote, the end all and be all of presidential elections per US Constitution, against Hillary, was a devastating blow to Clinton Inc. She responded with her expected evil persona.
If he is to be thrown into prison forevermore, it should precede throwing Obama and Hillary and Biden into prison. Justice is supposed to be blind but our current scenario shows DOJ is hopelessly corrupt. Trump is a footnote in a sad novel of America’s broken justice system. I couldn’t care less what happens to Trump. Stone him for his many sins but only after Hillary, Obama and Biden have preceded their well deserved stoning.
As Olly recently noted with James Garfield quote in 1876, our politicians like Hillary, Obama, Trump, and Biden are a reflection of Americans.
Sad and unfortunately true!
Don’t forget Bush, too. I like where this is going. If that a-hole Ford hadn’t pardoned Nixon, Reagan would have been locked up too. Law and Order policies I love it. So start with tRump, then do Bush, Kissinger, Obama, and the I guess Clinton(s) and Biden.
The betrayal of the US Constitution, as the Founding Fathers had envisioned, began in the 1960s particularly within the Executive Level / US Presidency
Start with Lyndon B. Johnson, the known racist and apparently closeted homosexual who stated, I never trust a man unless I’ve got his pecker in my pocket.
Maybe LBJ and the other known racist and closeted homosexual, Edgar B. Hoover, also a corrupt FBI Director like James Comey, had more in common than university history courses have reveaed.
“These N*********, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again.
― Lyndon B. Johnson to Senator Richard Russell, Jr. (D-GA) regarding the Civil Rights Act
“I’ll have those N********* voting Democrat for the next 200 years.”
― Lyndon B. Johnson
A true Wiesel, YOU GUESS!
where did you learn about Trump actions…from NYT, Democrat lawyers, CNN, WAPO…who have openly LIED EVERY DAY about Trump?
Any of the Russian Hoax Conspiracy go to jail? You know where they spied on the President and his people…JAILED the people around him…and was a Conspiracy for 4 years?
Trump doesn’t know when to ‘Shut-Up’, and Hillary doesn’t know how to stop ‘Clawing her Nails in His Back’.
This battle of the Sexes was over 50 years ago. What Glass Ceiling [?] In the ‘balance’ it has become a zero-sum contest.
Men are stupid and Women lie – and that My Friend will go on for millennia.
“the guy is an idiot…”
Wonderful, you have brought up meaningless characteristics. Did Trump get us into a war? No. Did he turn the economy around? Yes. Overall he was a good President even though you think he is an idiot, braggart, juvenile, and narcissist. Would you prefer someone without those characteristics that destroy the nation? You have Joe Briben. If he seemed intelligent and adult, would that satisfy you?
S Meyer, please show me where I said I would prefer Biden. Just because I dislike Trump doesn’t mean I like Biden or would even vote for the guy. I VOTED FOR TRUMP OVER BIDEN IN 2020 and I guess that proves my point.
It is probably guys like you that will defend Trump to the detriment of the party and the nation. If fools like you and the ALWAYS TRUMPERS would drop the loser we could maybe win an election or two. He lost 2020, he cost us GA in Jan 2021, and how did that help the country. You talk about all the ills that Biden is causing us and yet you can’t see that him having the senate is what gave him this power. Your boy Trump gave him the senate in 2020 and in 2022.
Of course Trump did many good things and had many great policies, but he can’t get our of his way. Of course the swamp, the media, big tech and Hollywood all went after him and that is awful, BUT HE KEEPS GIVING THEM THE AMMO WITH WHICH TO SHOOT HIM. Don’t speak like a moron the the president of Ukraine, don’t speak like a moron to the secretary of state of GA AND DON'” BRAG ABOUT HAVING CONFIDENTIAL MATERIAL TO SOME NITWIT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPRESS.
Vote for DeSantis, a lawyer, a good lawyer, a mature guy, a smart guy, a stable guy and a conservative guy. Oh yeah, and a guy that CAN WIN!
“S Meyer, please show me where I said I would prefer Biden. ”
You didn’t, and I didn’t say you did. You will vote for Trump rather than Biden if that is the choice. That is a no-brainer.
“It is probably guys like you that will defend Trump to the detriment of the party and the nation.”
The detriment of the nation is satisfied by helping Democrats get reelected. Trump’s characteristics can be annoying, but how does your constant repetition of those characteristics help the Republicans win the Presidency? You and others are doing what the left hopes for.
“If fools like you and the ALWAYS TRUMPERS would drop the loser we could maybe win an election or two.”
Hullbobby, have you no self-control? I’ll support any Republican candidate against the Democrats, but I won’t engage in tearing down candidates or future candidates. Only fools do that type of thing.
“He lost 2020, he cost us GA in Jan 2021, and how did that help the country. ”
That is your opinion. Trump is the frontrunner, and DeSantis is in the running and a good candidate. Should DeSantis voters try to destroy Trump and visa versa? That would be stupid. I am unhappy that Trump went after DeSantis the way he did, but I will not fight against probable or good candidates. No one should, for that serves the Democrats. Is that clear?
“Your boy Trump gave him the senate in 2020 and in 2022.”
You cannot control yourself. Trump made a bunch of crucial mistakes, and so has every candidate. I want victory, not the mindless joy of insulting those on my side that is not my preference. Trump fights and that is what is needed. DeSantis is also a fighter. Let’s not have the two destroy each other.
“Vote for DeSantis”
That is an excellent choice. Do so in the primary. Those supporting other candidates should likewise do so in the primaries. But stop all this mindless banter that only helps to defeat a Republican victory. In today’s world, there is only one candidate. The one that can win against the Democrats and helps move the country in the right direction.
S. Meyer, I agree about how detrimental it is for Republicans tearing down Republicans, but I am not a candidate, I am not on TV, I am commenting on a legal and political site. It is TRUMP that is attacking DeSantis, a great candidate…as you said. Notice that no other Republican is tearing down Trump, it is only the moron Trump that acts that way. I notice that even with all your charges of me being out of control that you never rebut that it was TRUMP that gave Biden the senate and the power to ruin our country the way that he has. THAT IS ON TRUMP!
“I agree about how detrimental it is for Republicans tearing down Republicans, but I am not a candidate, I am not on TV, I am commenting on a legal and political site.”
Hullbobby, I appreciate your desire for good government and statesmanship, but that should tell you not to fall into the Democrat trap so that Republicans fight among themselves. That is counterproductive.
The media tried inflaming the public against Trump for seven years and did well with specific subsets of voters. That hurts Trump, DeSantis, or any other potential candidate. In fact, Trump has been the shield for all other candidates as the left attacks him leaving the rest free, including those running for the Senate, House, and other offices.
“It is TRUMP that is attacking DeSantis, a great candidate.”
DeSantis is a great candidate, but I have been in close contact with many people. Recently I travelled to a pro-Trump group, and one of the speakers, a potential candidate, candidate stirred up divisiveness. That was a candidate I liked for high office but instead found myself very disappointed.
People asked me why I found it distasteful, and I answered them much like I am answering you. I did the same for a DeSantis gathering. That gathering demonstrated less divisiveness, likely because the speaker was more positive.
Do we want Trump and DeSantis bloodying each over so the Democrats have a greater chance of victory? NO!!!
“…as you said. Notice that no other Republican is tearing down Trump, it is only the moron Trump that acts that way.”
That is not correct, as shown in my previous paragraphs. Trump is not a moron. Any candidate able to duplicate what Trump did in office is a good candidate. Trump should withhold saying those things because that might cost Republicans long term. I am not an adviser, but I can advise others on this list. DeSantis made statements that he should have withheld, but I discount them because he has a right to fight back.
“I notice that even with all your charges of me being out of control that you never rebut that it was TRUMP that gave Biden the senate and the power to ruin our country the way that he has. THAT IS ON TRUMP!”
If you wish to do that calculation, you cannot only include those reflecting poorly on Trump. His positives outweigh his negatives.
Allow me to explain my position. I was born and lived as a Democrat. For years, however, I voted independently. There were good reasons for me to find the Republican Party objectionable. However, the Democrat Party is reprehensible as well. Some politicians of the past were good, but they came from both sides, so my votes made as a Democrat were independent.
I became a Republican to support a single candidate. He won. I remained Republican until the party irritated me with their cannibalism against Trump, who proved he could do the job in front of him.
Members of both parties are stealing our future. I lean to the classical liberal/libertarian side that some consider conservative. I discussed that with John Say, combining it with the ideas of Burke and Paine, though the conservatism I lean toward is a different type than most people associate with it.
If our government ran correctly, people would barely notice the courts because the legislature would be doing its job. The legislature has failed miserably.
If we followed the Constitution, we would see the states, not the federal government, involved in the divisiveness. Each state is an independent laboratory for the country as a whole.
If the government recognized what personal property was and who owns it, our citizenry would be wealthier than they are today.
Hullbobby, my comments are not intended to tear you down, as I consider you a bright light in the darkness we face. I want to see people united in principle. Principle kills the left because the left lacks them and lacks morality.
Karl Marx spoke about communism, but his principles were left unused, and what he said was wrong and mostly fiction. Along this line, ATS claims he is not a communist, but how he acts is similar to what Marx prescribed. ATS lacks that recognition because he deals with deceit and lies rather than principles and morality. That is what you and I need to focus on.
I agree with alot of what you say.
My advice to republicans is that it is stupid to attack Trump.
I also wish Trump would cease the stupid attacks on other republicans.
Thoght eh future is never clear – I expected that Scott Walker would be important in the GOP and he fizzled.
My crystal ball read is that DeSantis has a large political future.
That said he will neither be president, nor the GOP nominenee in 2024 unless Trump steps on his D#$k big time,
If Democrats want to waste their effort trying to take Trump out – LET THEM.
It is damaging to them and beneficial to republicans – and Trump and should they succeed – DeSantis is waiting int he wings.
Biden is a dead man walking in 2024. Like Trump in 2020 – he is now running on his record – and unlike Trump it is abysmal and worsening by the minute.
Further should democrats succeed in “Getting Trump” – they will turn their energies on DeSantis or whoever leads.
There is nothing the left says about Trump that they are incapable of saying about any other republican.
They will call ANY republican a racist, nazi, homophone, facist, …. They have done so to DeSantis in the past.
There is no republican immune to being lied about.
Trump does best as the underdog – DeSantis is no threat to him. Trump should focus on Democrats,
As should other republicans. Outside of DeSantis they are all running for positions in the Next Republican administration anywhere.
BTW I do NOT think Republicans should focus entirely on Biden. They need to go after the whole Democratic party.
The mess we have right now is NOT just because were have an alzheimers patient in the wh.
It is because he has been enabled by the entire democratic party.
Tar and feather them all.
I do not think Republican should impeach anyone – atleast not as a priority.
But I think they should open NUMEROUS impeachment inquiries.
Wray, Garland, Mayokas, Biden.
An impeachment committee has enormous power to investigate.
The courts are unlikely to get in the way of a normal house investigation – they will do NOTHING to stop an impeachment investigation.
Further most of the ruses the DOJ/FBI/ETC use to refuse to cooperate – do not work regarding impeachment.
There is no executive priviledge regarding your impeachment.
There is no “ongoing investigations” privelidge – which is not an actual priviledge.
It is a policy – one the courts long ago made clear – is not a barrier to congress.
The risk of a congressional investigation poking arround in ongoing investigations – is that the investigation is compromised.
That is pretty much irrelevant.
NO ONE IS GOING TO JAIL unfortunately.
I think Republicans should make an issue over the failure to appoint a special counsel to investigate Biden.
At the same time Republicans DO NOT WANT an SC.
Biden and Garland Blew it on that. We saw how Meuller effectively became a stonewall to house and senate investigations.
The best favor Garland could have done was to appoint an SC to investigate Biden. The right person could have slowwalked everything and thwarted the GOP congress.
Right now what Republicans need is impeachment committees, or maybe select committees to EXPLORE impeachment.
At this time ALL of this is POLITICAL. It is about winning the next election. As I said before NO ONE is going to jail.
Not Hunter, Not Joe, not Trump not anybody.
That is unfortunate, but this is all about politics and republicans should embrace that.
They should investigate the crap out of the POLITICS. – Specifically because politics has no place in law enforcement.
Republicans should be screaming about censorship, about hatch act violations.
But they are in the midst of an 18 month game here. And they have an enormous amount of power.
I know alot of republicans are upset about the debt limit deal. It is a bad thing for the country.
It is also a bad thing for Biden – spending another $2T in the next 2 years is not going to make anything get better.
Republicans do not need to win fights right now. Losing is fine – so long as the disaster that follows is blamed on democrats.
Winning is not good – even if it is the right thing – if it causes a disaster – even an inevitable one that gets blamed on republicans.
Where Republicans should be aiming – is to pick of the peices when all goes to h311 as it already is.
See new Tweets
Conversation
Clandestine
@WarClandestine
There are tapes.
The FBI knew there were tapes.
The FBI redacted text about the tapes, under the guise of “sources and methods”.
The FBI is withholding pertinent information that belongs to the American People to cover for Biden.
This alone confirms the FBI is compromised.
https://twitter.com/WarClandestine/status/1668397809547071489?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Escreen-name%3Atfmetals%7Ctwcon%5Es1
Trump doesn’t need to win, or even run in, the 2024 presidential election to be pardoned; a Republican candidate who won the election could pardon his predecessor (or, if weak-kneed, commute the sentence without vacating the actual conviction). It would take political moxie to do it, though.
sure and Republicans could have held the debt ceiling…instead they GAVE Trillions to Democrats
No one in DC Cares about America!