Below is my column in The Messenger on the Georgia indictment. As expected, the indictment is a sweeping racketeering based prosecution involving former president Donald Trump and the 18 other defendants. The scope of the alleged conspiracy is massive. “The call” is one of those steps but the famous line that has occupied hours of coverage (and led to the investigation) is not the central allegation. Indeed, every call, speech, and tweet appears a criminal step in the conspiracy. District Attorney Fani Willis appears to have elected to charge everything and everyone and let God sort them out.
Here is the column from yesterday before the release of the indictment:
“Oh Georgia, no peace I find (no peace I find).”
Those lyrics made famous by the late, great Ray Charles could have been written for former president Donald Trump this week as he awaits his expected fourth indictment. The long-anticipated indictment by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is expected in the coming days and will focus on alleged election tampering and related offenses in the 2020 presidential election.
If indictments were treated like frequent flyer miles, Donald Trump would get the Georgia indictment for free. However, it will be anything but costless. Regardless of the merits, it will magnify both the cost and complications for Trump.
Like the New York indictment, a Georgia indictment would not be subject to a presidential pardon. Not only have GOP candidates indicated that they would pardon Trump on any federal charges if elected to the presidency, Trump could pardon himself (including a preemptive pardon before trial) if elected — but that power does not reach state convictions.
As with Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, many view Willis as a Democratic prosecutor pursuing the highly unpopular former president. However, given the three grand juries and the three years that have passed, Willis may have found new evidence or witnesses that could tie Trump to criminal conduct in seeking to challenge the results in the election.
Thus far, the focus has been on the controversial call that Trump had with Georgia officials — a call widely cited as indisputable evidence of an effort at voting fraud. Yet, the call was similar to a settlement discussion, as state officials and the Trump team hashed out their differences and a Trump demand for a statewide recount. Trump had lost the state by less than 12,000 votes. That might be what he meant when he stated, “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.”
While others have portrayed the statement as a raw call for fabricating the votes, it seems more likely that Trump was swatting back claims that there was no value to a statewide recount by pointing out that he wouldn’t have to find a statistically high number of votes to change the outcome of the election. It is telling that many politicians and pundits refuse to even acknowledge that obvious alternate meaning.
For Trump’s part, he is not helping with his signature, all-caps social media attacks.
In addition to attacking Willis for a supposedly “racist” and “unethical” past, Trump recently declared that Willis “wants to indict me for a perfect phone call; this was even better than my perfect call on Ukraine.” I have previously disagreed with the claimed perfection of that Ukraine call, the subject of Trump’s first impeachment. However, neither call needs to be “perfect” to be protected.
The importance made of the call in the likely Georgia indictment will be one of the greatest “tells” as to what Willis has in terms of evidence. If the call is a critical linchpin to the prosecution, it will look like a political stunt out of the Bragg-school of prosecution.
There have also been stories indicating that Willis is focusing on connections of Trump team members like Rudy Giuliani to a “breach” of the voting system on Jan. 7, 2021. The team was seeking access to the voting machines to show that they could be compromised or manipulated. Text messages state that the team secured an “invitation” to examine the machines in Coffee County.
That “invitation” was reportedly from a Coffee County elections official, who also reportedly claimed, incorrectly, that votes could be “easily” flipped from Trump to Biden.
Coffee County was also discussed as an example of voting irregularities to justify a proposed draft executive order to seize voting machines. However, that order was never sent out.
The problem is that these messages also apparently refer to “voluntary access” and that may have been what was conveyed to Trump. One message reads: “Most immediately, we were just granted access — by written invitation! — to Coffee County’s systems. Yay!”
Yet, the Coffee County allegations highlight another risk in the Georgia prosecution. There are clearly a number of people beyond Trump who are being targeted, including his lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell. Indictments can unnerve associates who lack the money or support of Trump. That can lead to flipping key figures to offer state evidence.
The greatest challenge for Georgia is to offer a discernible limiting principle on when challenges in close elections are permissible and when they are criminal. There is a relatively short period between the presidential election in November and counting of electoral votes in January. That means that challenges are often made on incomplete data or unresolved allegations. Generally, candidates are suing election officials who control the machines, data, and other evidence needed to make a case. They often (as they did in 2020) resist demands for access to evidence.
That is not to excuse the claims made by the Trump team. In the coverage after the election, I criticized both sides. I could not understand how many experts were declaring that there was no evidence of voting irregularities a day after the election, before any data were available. However, I also said that the Trump campaign had failed to supply such evidence in critical court filings. I also publicly disagreed with Trump’s fraud claims.
It is important for campaigns to seek judicial review of election challenges without fear of prosecution. Some Democratic lawyers after 2020 made their own controversial (and unsuccessful) allegations of machines flipping or altering election outcomes. No one suggested that they should be criminally charged or disbarred.
The pile-on of prosecutions could create a chilling effect for campaigns in seeking recounts and reviews in close elections. That does not mean that there may not be evidence of knowing fraud or criminal wrongdoing. However, another anemic filing like the one in New York will only fuel the deep political divisions and unrest in the country. It needs to be clearly based on a desire for justice, rather than “just deserts.”
For Trump, of course, he may feel that (as Ray Charles sang) it always seems that “the road leads back to you” for Democratic prosecutors. That itself is not a problem so long as the road is both straight and well laid.
Jonathan Turley, an attorney, constitutional law scholar and legal analyst, is the Shapiro Chair for Public Interest Law at The George Washington University Law School.
How can we sit and watch as daily Republicans are charged with crimes as the investigation of Hunter goes on for 5 years and blows past the SOL, Joe Biden, the moron, is videotaped bragging about firing the guy investigating the company that hired his son…to make sure they weren’t investigated?
We see the Biden family getting 20 MILLION dollars without any explanation as to what they provided for 20 MILLION dollars.
We see Joe Biden get caught with classified documents with an “investigation” that somehow has disappeared as Trump, the Republican, is almost instantly indicted?? Plus Biden wasn’t a president AND he had the papers for decades as his cohabiter, Hunter, is in bed with our enemies.
We see Hilary destroy subpoenaed documents and devices with no indictment.
We see Hilary, Obama, Biden, Comey, Lisa Page, Strozk, et al conspire to attack a presidential candidate and president-elect with no indictment.
We see Comey, Brennan, Clapper and others lie to congress with no charges.
Lastly, we see local partisan D.A.s bringing ridiculous charges that would never have been brought against a Democrat. Alvin Bragg said he wanted to be elected so he could go after Trump, how is this ok? Alvin Bragg is known as being too soft on crime and yet he brings the most asinine and weak case against a political opponent. How is this fine? It is almost like a personal Bill of Attainder.
I wish trump would go away due to his many faults and his lack of control, but the minute he leaves the scene these fascist pigs will go after the next person up. Republicans need to up their game, they need to start using lawfare as a way to combat this horror and they need to do it now.
100% agree. Well said
HullBobby,
Well said.
I commented below, I think most people already know whom they are voting for in 2024.
OMG you are brainwashed.
Those who should be most concerned, most outraged by what the nation is becoming are those who’ve sacrificed all for her freedom.
They keep throwing stuff at the wall, hoping something will stick.
They seem to be desperate.
Funny thing, at this point I would say most Americans already have decided who they are going to vote for in 2024. All these indictments are not going to change much. Only if Biden loses or drops out would people change their minds for who they would vote for. If it were RFK Jr. is the only way I would even entertain the idea of voting Democrat.
Just like in 2016, about 5 minutes after both parties conventions concluded and we knew it was Trump and Clinton, most people knew full well who they were voting for.
“The pile-on of prosecutions could create a chilling effect for campaigns in seeking recounts and reviews in close elections. That does not mean that there may not be evidence of knowing fraud or criminal wrongdoing. However, another anemic filing like the one in New York will only fuel the deep political divisions and unrest in the country. It needs to be clearly based on a desire for justice, rather than “just deserts.”
********************************************
The Dims would turn over every stone upon a stone in our country to stop Trump. The beauty of history is that these efforts invariably fail one way or the other. Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come. Witness the leading songs of the day as a precursor to what will follow. Some revolutions are the fighting variety while others are quiet revolts. I’m seeing a little of both across and urban/rural and mangerial/wroker class divide. Social movements don’t need the founder in tow to triumph. (see Christianity as just one example).Trump’s ideas and populism will hold sway whether the man does or not. This what terrifies the Dims — and with good reason. You can’t abuse people indefinitely. Ultimately, the barrell turns inward and the blast magnifies.
Mespo, in the fullness of time you will be proven right. But the fullness of time is usually decades, sometimes centuries. I can’t wait that long for revenge.
A better overview of the indictment: https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/08/15/the-various-kinds-of-georgia-crimes-in-the-rico-indictment/
‘…a Coffee County elections official, who also reportedly claimed, incorrectly, that votes could be “easily” flipped from Trump to Biden.’ Prof. Turley… if by chance you read these postings.. please know that a group of ex-Navy cryptologists which does data forensics made a presentation of their findings in PA of Exactly just that.. votes flipped from T to B in the middle of the night by ‘something’ going on inside the computers which were always online……………. they had the before and after numbers by tracking the data.. precisely.
Wouldn’t it be more constructive, for voters of both parties, to brainstorm solutions to correct “systematic” problems?
If all of these bureaucratic systems are broken, how would you write a law to correct these systems?
Conservatives and Republicans were largely silent over the past decades when these broken “systems” were used against other Americans.
Aren’t all of to blame for not fixing systematic issues sooner? It also seems like these problems happen when we veer away from James Madison’s blueprint for American government. Maybe we simply need to return to basics?
Given Code of Federal Regulations, Part-600 “General Powers of Special Counsel’, pp600.3[a]..”The special counsel shall be selected from OUTSIDE the United States Government’, Garland’s appointment of Weiss is unlawful. Weiss’s current standing makes it so.
If you believe that, then you also believe that Durham was illegally appointed by Barr.
The appointment of Durham also violated the regulation.
@ Anonymous: RE:”If you believe that,..” What does belief have to do with it? It’s in black and white in the substance of the code. Hence, true and valid for both. What did Durham give us?
As I pointed out elsewhere, there is more than one law under which an AG can appoint a Special Counsel.
IF the Special Counsel is appointed under 28 CFR Chapter VI, THEN the AG must follow 28 CFR 600.3.
However, IF the Special Counsel is appointed under other legislation (e.g., in THIS case, appointed under 28 U.S.C. §510), THEN the AG does NOT have to follow 28 CFR 600.3.
Durham wasn’t appointed under 28 CFR 600.3 either.
You can read the appointment letter for yourself. You can also read Durham’s appointment letter and see that 600.3 didn’t apply for him either. And you can read the statutes that Garland did list. 28 USC 510: “The Attorney General may from time to time make such provisions as he considers appropriate authorizing the performance by any other officer, employee, or agency of the Department of Justice of any function of the Attorney General.”
“THEN the AG does NOT have to follow 28 CFR 600.3.”
Yea, and we all know why he didn’t, which is really the point.
This curious multitude of concurrent prosecutions in different jurisdictions appear reliant upon mostly equivocal assertions of intent.
-That might tend to backfire and flip nonplussed voters’ perceptions from “possible” to probable political “pile-ons” because the “by hook or by crook” adage cuts both ways here. Think Gulliver’s Travels and the little Lilliputians climbing all over his tethered body.
I would be curious, Lin, as a scholarly attorney, of your analysis of the following article on Fani Willis as to her behavior as a former prosecutor in Fulton County under her former boss, and the criticism of her by Fulton County Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney. Her fawning over Barack Obama as a “brilliant leader” speak for themselves
Atlanta has a long history of political mischief. Clearly the cities run by Democrats are a hot mess precisely because they focus on charging anyone and everyone except themselves for their historical problems, all self-inflicted.
Fani Willis Politics: She Is a Democrat Who Praised Obama & Harris
https://heavy.com/news/fani-willis-politics-democrat/
“It’s a ‘What are you thinking?’ moment,” Fulton County Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney said, according to CNN. “The optics are horrific.”
“Using the title of your office and having on social media that you, as this political office holder, are holding a fundraiser for the opponent of someone that this political office is investigating, I don’t know that it’s an actual conflict, but I use that phrase: ‘What were you thinking?’” the judge said.
Lin I hope you are right. Criminalising election challenges based largely on the alleged falsity of statements made and the alleged state of mind of the challenger is unprecedented. But Trump derangement is so entrenched that the public may not wake up to the danger. Yet if anything should do it, it is this absurd RICO charge. Every challenge to an election is organised, and every failed challenge by definition is unable to persuade, often because its claims are false or cannot be proven.
The left is threatening lawyers telling them that their support of Trump is likely to lead to indictment. At the same time they are engaged in election interference.
The left is as dirty as they come in this country and it will get dirtier if permitted.
Regarding the statement by President Trump to “find me the 11,780 votes”: How can it be interpreted otherwise than find the votes that were cast? You can’t find something that doesn’t exist; you can search for it, but you won’t find it. There is no definition of “to find” that entails creating something that doesn’t exist.
Even more bizarre is the concept of creating a crime when the obvious plan is to attempt to obtain evidence to support a claim against the State of Georgia. The election fraud team, with Rudy Giuliani at the top, wanted to make observations of the election machines used in the state to determine whether their claims about switching votes and miscounts were possible.
The reason behind the term “conspiracy theory” is that the person making the claim doesn’t have access to the physical evidence that will prove their case. This would be a good time to jettison that term to the dustbin of history, and allow for full access to evidence that either proves or disproves such claims.
The “find the votes” request was made in the context of a discussion, with lawyers on the line for both sides, of a legal claim in Georgia that many votes were cast and/or counted unlawfully. Trump wanted these votes examined and disqualified. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, let alone criminal.
As it turns out, the claim was almost certainly right that unlawful votes in excess of the margin were counted. Margot Cleveland has reported on research documenting the number of votes cast in districts by voters who had moved out before the relevant date and so were not eligible to vote there.
Gov Brian Kemp begs to differ. How many recounts and audits have there been? Nothing Trump said could reasonably be construed as anything other than a demand to change votes—under the threat of criminal prosecution, and, he tried the same thing in several other states, too. Then there’s the falsified Electoral College documents.
Hey Gigi Do you still think Texas makes electricity from crude oil???
Best stop cutting and pasting from your daily democrat talking points email.
Texas Electricity by type
Natural gas 46%
Wind 23%
Coal 18%
Nuclear 11%
Solar 2%
If you are called a “conspiracy theorist” or a “denier” that means they know you are right. They have no facts to refute your claim.
Reminder that local elections for sheriff, etc, REALLY MATTER.
Chesa Boudin was recalled as DA by ultra progressives in San Francisco so you know he had to be REALLY bad for the lefties in SF to get rid of him.
Now Georgia needs to do the same with this radical DA.
The law is not being followed. The indictment is a sloppy, coordinated political hit job with the sole purpose of ELECTION INTERFERENCE to stop Trump.
But Georgia Republicans, who actually control the legislative and executive branches, will do nothing to stop this bc they see it as their opportunity to get rid of Trump as well.
Watching Republicans in Congress, Republicans in Georgia, Republican DAs and prosecutors all across the country….do NOTHING with the power they have to stop this assault on the Rule of Law is the true outrage here. For shame.
“The law is not being followed.”
How?
Fani Fani Boo Banni (she’s a joke and should be mocked as such) indicted a bunch of lawyers for doing legal work. (how are lawyers feeling today?)
Fani Boo Banni “leaked” the indictment while jury was still meeting…before the jury even voted. (ie, not following the law)
Fani failed to redact juror names. (intentional?)
The indictment is a joke. She is a joke.
Indict Fani Willis.
The word, “Find” Is Not “CREATE Me The Votes”, These People know its BS, its Ploy Is All.
Meanwhile Kevin McCarthy and his merry band of lackluster conservatives are on vacation for a month posting insipid rants on social media in lieu of actually doing something.
First: The “spies who lie” (to influence an election). Hundreds-of-millions in Zuckerbucks ( to influence an election). A compliant media, on countless issues (to influence an election). Scads of bureaucrats and law enforcement censoring social media (to influence an election).
And now: Weaponizing the law (4 indictments?!) to rub out the leading opposition candidate (to corrupt another election).
If you believe that the Left favors free and fair elections, you are delusional. The Left has a single, overarching desire: To sate its lust for power. And a single, corrupt method: By any means necessary.
Just finished Madness And Modernity. Very thought provoking, Sam.
D: Glad you liked it. Frightening thesis, isn’t it.
Yes, very much so.
Their goal is death by a thousand cuts. Embroil a political foe in a complex legal quagmire, regardless of the validity of charges and cost them time and millions of dollars in legal bills.
The real losers are the American citizens. We no longer have politicians who will come to the table and reason together. They exemplify the lowest aspect of human depravity, self serving interests and avarice. Now, it is a race to the bottom.
“The real losers are the American citizens.”
True that. This has been the case for years. I’m in my 7th decade of life and never did I think this country that emerged from WWII to lead the world past the inferno and into a bright future would be torn apart from within. But I should have known. Marx gave us the clues and Orwell warned the west. We’ve emulated those we vanquished in 1945. Who will save us? China waits like a panther crouching before its prey.
America the Republic is Officially a Banana Republic.
Seeds of Revolution planted.
I believe more like seeds of civil war are sprouting. President BHO planted them long ago.
His chickens are coming home to roost….
ORANGE 🍊 is the New RED, WHITE, and BLUE ! 🇺🇸
These federal and state persecutors need to “Hit the Road, Jack, and Don’t Come Back, No More, No More, No More, No More. Hit the Roard, Jack, and Don’t Come Back No More.”
That’s what Trump needs to do.
Phat chance.
It Trump had faded away, none of these indictments would have been filed.
The very definition of political persecution.
Don’t confuse your conjecture with a fact.
Iowan2,
Yeah.
We all see it.
I wonder, how many points has Trump standing gone up?
ELECTION INTERFERENCE, WRIT LARGE.
Democrat much? The continued persecution of Trump is so political it smacks you in the face. As does the non pursuit of the Biden’s, Clinton’s, and O’Bamas. Everything they have accused Trump of, without merit, are actions the other 3 took. But, when you are protected, it gets hidden, and in a very Saul Alinsky way, the Rules for Radicals are played out. Persecuting your political opponent, because you know he will unveil your corruption, which dives extremely deep, becomes an obvious ploy, even to the lowest I.Q. If only the massive propaganda was against the radicals like they are supporting the radicals, you might get a little closer to the truth. But, you are told by the Left owned media to respond accordingly, Trump is the bad guy, and all of “ours” are pure, and you want to believe it, so you do. His prosecution by persecution has been continuous since 2015. And if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth, to those without an ability to think critically.
“And if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth, to those without an ability to think critically.”
I feel exactly the same way. When will trump quit telling so many lies?
And then there’s what the Voter GA organization says about elections in Georgia:
https://voterga.org/
WHAT WE FOUND IN GEORGIA
Six sworn affidavits of Fulton counterfeit ballots; (10s of thousands est.)
17,724 more votes than in person recount ballot images required to tabulate votes in Fulton
Drop box video surveillance representing 181,507 ballots destroyed in 102 counties
Improper Chain of Custody forms for 107,000 ballots statewide
Estimated Chain of Custody forms missing for 355,000 ballots statewide (Georgia Star)
86,860 voters in 2020 have false registration date prior to 2017 but were not on 2017 history file
Over 1.7 million original ballot images are lost or destroyed in 70 counties despite state, federal law