Below is my column in the Daily Beast on the fourth indictment of former President Donald Trump by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. While I have said that this indictment presents a serious threat to Trump, I am still troubled by the implications of the indictment for free speech and future election challenges.
Here is the column:
Welcome to the Jackson Pollock school of prosecution. The 98-page indictment from Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is the legal version of Pollock’s style of throwing paint splatters on canvas as artistic expression. It basically makes every telephone call, tweet, and meeting a separate conspiratorial act.
There are 161 separate acts. Not surprisingly, everyone then becomes part of the conspiracy. The indictment covers 19 people, including Trevian Kutti (the former publicist for R. Kelly and Kanye West). Willis wants them all thrown into a single trial and let the jury figure it out.
But for all the disparate acts that Willis says constitute a criminal conspiracy, part of this emerging picture should worry Trump.
Pollock once advised confused observers that they needed to stop looking for objective meaning. The same may be true with the fourth Trump indictment. Willis simply treats every statement as a knowing falsehood and conspiratorial effort.
The indictment, to many, reads like the type of unabashedly biased spin that’s typically seen on cable television shows.
For example, the indictment relies on calls like the controversial one Trump had with Georgia officials—a call long cited as indisputable evidence of an effort at voting fraud. In the call, Trump pushed his demand for a statewide recount. Trump had lost the state by less than 12,000 votes. When officials insisted that there was little likelihood that such a recount would make a difference, he stated, “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.”
The call is still cited as one of those 161 individual steps toward the criminal conspiracy. Even though the indictment effectively repackages the same claims as the federal prosecution, Willis insists that Trump should be effectively tried twice under these allegations.
It is easy to dismiss such a Pollock prosecution as political gamesmanship. The timing alone in bringing the case (which should have been brought two years ago) is enough for many to discount this prosecution. However, it does represent a serious threat to Trump. It has “legs” as an indictment that is not likely to be dismissed in its entirety before trial.
IT’S GOT LEGS
There are three reasons why this indictment could be the most perilous for Trump, as opposed to the Jan. 6 indictments, which present serious threshold constitutional questions.
First, the racketeering cases tend to be iron-plated before trial because challenges concern the interpretation of facts, which are traditionally questions left to the finder of fact (in this case a jury).
Willis is likely to argue successfully that she should be allowed to prove the case. In the course of that prosecution, Willis probably hopes that one or two of the 18 other defendants will flip and turn state’s evidence.
Second, in D.C., special counsel Smith is essentially trying to create new law, or at least stretch existing case law to the point of breaking down. Conversely, elections are left largely to the states, and state prosecutors routinely bring election-based prosecutions.
Willis may be stretching the evidence, but she is not stretching the law. Racketeering laws are routinely used far afield from their origins in combating criminal gangs.
Finally, as a state action, this is not a prosecution that can be ended prematurely with a presidential pardon. If Trump is elected, he could grant himself a self-pardon, even a preemptive pardon before trial. Various GOP presidential candidates have indicated that they will also consider a pardon. That could put an end to the Smith prosecutions before any trial if the special counsel cannot try the case before the election.
There is no federal pardon option for Georgia. Indeed, it is even hard to secure a state pardon, which is not issued by the governor but a pardon board.
None of this means that the indictment is justified. While the indictment contains a litany of calls and meetings, there is no clear evidence that Trump did not believe that the results of the election could be flipped through these challenges. The concern is that the indictment criminalizes challenges to elections.
In covering decades of presidential elections for CBS, NBC, BBC, and Fox, every election has produced challenges, including many with little support. This coverage included multiple challenges by Democratic lawmakers to the certification of Republican presidents in Congress.
It has also included challenges to voting machines.
For example, Marc Elias, who served as Hillary Clinton’s campaign general counsel and played a role in the funding of the infamous Steele dossier on Russian collusion, has challenged past elections on such grounds. After the 2020 election, he challenged one New York election by claiming that “there is reason to believe that voting tabulation machines misread hundreds if not thousands of valid votes as undervotes, and that these tabulation machine errors disproportionately affected [the Democrat].”
That was no crime. Elias had every right to seek judicial review even though the claim was quickly rejected as unfounded.
Many of us disagreed with Trump after the election and publicly rejected the claims of systemic voting fraud. However, Trump had a right to not only challenge the election but to be wrong.
That is why the Willis indictment is a serious threat to Trump but also to our system of democratic process. Pollock once said that “when I am in my painting, I’m not aware of what I’m doing.” Unlike painters, prosecutors do not have the same luxury. What Willis is doing here is excessive and it is dangerous.
Dennis
Can you please advise…we are all on the edges of our seats.
Lets say Joe is on trial at some point for his taking of bribes to affect public policy. Do you think the judge would allow the hundreds of videos of Pedo Joe, sniffing girls and babies hair, touching children and women inappropriately, kissing women on the lips without their consent, as evidence of his pattern of using his office for personal gain?
And could the prosecutor then get a psych expert on the stand and ask “if the person exhibits this behavior in full view of cameras and microphones, might that person be capable of much worse in private? Even to the point of shoving his fingers in an aide’s vagina without her consent?”
Of course the psych expert might say “well, it could just be that he only does it on camera because he is demonstrating his power to do whatever the hell he wants and giving the middle finger to the entire world. We also see this in the way he parades his criminal scumbag deadbeat son all over the world with him.”
Pennis McIntyre
Like the nut case that was apprehended on his way to assassinate Kavanaugh??
I mean, after all, he just wanted to make sure Brett “reaped the whirlwind”….
Which of your statements regarding violence these days was a lie?
Jonathan: Words have consequences. Last week Judge Chutkan, who is presiding over the Jan. 6 prosecution case against Trump, warned him about making inflammatory and threatening statements about witnesses, prosecutors and even her that might taint the jury pool–like “If you go after me, I’m coming after you!”. Despite the warnings DJT has continued to attack Judge Chutkan.
And there is one person who apparently has been following DJT’s threats on his Truth Social. It’s Abigail Jo Shry, 43, from Alvin, Texas. On 8/5 she left the following death threat at Judge Chutkan’s chambers : “You are in our sights, we want to kill you. If Trump doesn’t get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you, so tread lightly b—-“. Shry also made threats against Texas Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, all Democrats in DC and the LGBTQ+ community. Shry has just been arrested and charged with making death threats. This latest incident comes about a week after a Utah man was shot and killed by the FBI after he made death threats against Pres. Biden and VP Harris.
Now, I know. Some of your loyal followers will claim Shry was just exercising her 1st Amendment rights. I mean, she didn’t actually drive up to DC and try to enter Judge Chutkan’s chambers with a loaded weapon. Not like the guy who was loaded for bear and was walking up and down Obama’s street looking for an entrance to his home. This is a misreading of the facts and the law. Had Shry simply made a TS post complaining about the DC case against her cult leader–“interference with an election”, etc,–that would have come under protected speech. But making specific death threats, like those of Shry, are crimes under federal and state laws.
So what are we to make of this latest incident? There are some, among DJT’s cult, who are willing to act out on his cues. It’s like Pavlov’s dog. This is why Judge Chutlan should revoke DJT’s bond and put him in pre-trial detention until his trial. She probably won’t because she knows DJT’s threats are attempts to provoke her–and she is not going to fall into DJT’s trap. But Chutkan is going to agree with Jack Smith that the Jan. 6 trial should happen soon rather than later–the exact opposite of what DJT’s lawyers are asking for in the case. It’s the law of unintended consequences that DJT never learned when he was at Wharton!
Dennis
Can I get your expert legal advice on this?
Lets say Joe is on trial at some point for his taking of bribes to affect public policy. Do you think the judge would allow the hundreds of videos of Pedo Joe, sniffing girls and babies hair, touching children and women inappropriately, kissing women on the lips without their consent, as evidence of his pattern of using his office for personal gain?
And could the prosecutor then get a psych expert on the stand and ask “if the person exhibits this behavior in full view of cameras and microphones, might that person be capable of much worse in private? Even to the point of shoving his fingers in an aide’s vagina without her consent?”
Of course the psych expert might say “well, it could just be that he only does it on camera because he is demonstrating his power to do whatever the hell he wants and giving the middle finger to the entire world. We also see this in the way he parades his criminal scumbag deadbeat son all over the world with him.”
Or better yet, just tell us which of your prior statements regarding violece these days, was a lie.
Man up, democracy is at stake!!
TIT. Yeah, you can get my legal advice. My hourly rate is $850.00. And if you are like DJT I want the $ up front!
Perhaps you missed the part where i said better yet, answer for your lie before you post another useless post.
Which of your previous statements about violence these days was a lie?
Please Pennis, out democracy hangs in the balance!
Pennis McIntyre
But I’m sure you could excuse her for making death threats in the case of LGBTQ rights or abortion “rights”. You’ve said as much.
Which of your prior statements about violence these days was a lie?
Pennis McIntyre
Lets see….which side has actually taken a rifle and shot up members of Congress most recently???
Also, which statement that you previously made regarding vilence these days was a lie?
I absolutely love that Smeagol has taken so quickly to his new name LMAO. Good Boy!
Anonymous says:August 17, 2023 at 11:00 AM
Smeagol,
looks like TTT is using the heckler veto. You know the one you support as free speech.
Reply
Anonymous says:August 17, 2023 at 11:25 AM
That’s not what a heckler’s veto is. Look it up, you will be surprised.
According to the fifth amendment members of the military (to include the President), cannot be charged with any offense that arise out of their official duties during times of emergency or war. Defending the integrity of elections is a Presidential duty; and he is the Commander in Chief of all armed forces of the US.
They can’t even be legally indited. The actions of those that willfully disregard these enumerations of rights in the Constitution are guilty of Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law (US Code).
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, EXCEPT IN CASES arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger…”- 5th Amendment to the Constitution
There is no civil war going on.
“There is no civil war going on.”, said Smeagol, covering his eyes.
Right…it’s not a civil war…..it’s a revolution.
Actually, that is an interesting question.
Whom defines what?
A civil war of two countering ideologies?
A revolution of one side against The Constitution? Or a revolution against a anti-Constitution movement?
Or, for pop-culture fun, Firefly like the Brown Coat Independents vs the Alliance? Cannot say the Republican party represents the Brown Coats per say, but the woke leftists are without a doubt the Alliance. And some of the more militant, represent the Reavers.
Leftists are The Borg, Upstate.
Whether there is one or not is irrelevant … since he was indicted…
That is not what that clause of the Fifth Amendment means.
This just means that a indictment by a Grand Jury is required for capital or other serious offenses. Trump was indicted for each offense…
So, he has not been “held to answer” for any crimes without an indictment.
The military exception is a carveout for situations, in which an indictment would NOT be required.
Smeagol Teh Legal Beagle
Lets say Joe is on trial at some point for his taking of bribes to affect public policy. Do you think the judge would allow the hundreds of videos of Pedo Joe, sniffing girls and babies hair, touching children and women inappropriately, kissing women on the lips without their consent, as evidence of his pattern of using his office for personal gain?
And could the prosecutor then get a psych expert on the stand and ask “if the person exhibits this behavior in full view of cameras and microphones, might that person be capable of much worse in private? Even to the point of shoving his fingers in an aide’s vagina without her consent?”
Of course the psych expert might say “well, it could just be that he only does it on camera because he is demonstrating his power to do whatever the hell he wants and giving the middle finger to the entire world. We also see this in the way he parades his criminal scumbag deadbeat son all over the world with him.”
Why are you asking evidentiary questions? How does this relate to “Peter V” and his misunderstanding of the Fifth Amendment?
The Rules of Evidence, including issues regarding expert testimony, hearsay and whether certain evidence may be excluded due its prejudicial effect outweighing its probative value, are entirely unrelated.
So what you mean is you don’t know the answer. OK thanks anyway Smigel.
Smeagol,
looks like TTT is using the heckler veto. You know the one you support as free speech.
ATT
Obfuscate all you want, Smeagol.
Darren knows who the trolls are, and you have no rights here.
I tried to have earnest conversations with you trolls, and when you are proven wrong, you cut and run, only to post that same bs lie the next day.
How texas makes electricity is NOT up to your “point of view”.
Dennis lying about violence these days is not open to point of view. He called himself out.
I gave the conditions on which i would let you trolls go back to trolling and they were so easy.
Grow a set and stop whining to Dennis. Cuz he know’s you’re a troll.
*darren not dennis
So the disruption in the tennessee statehouse was “discussion”?
The shouting down of conservative speakers on campus is discussion?
Ya don’t like it when it visits you, eh Smeagol?
Does it only apply to liberal/progressive trolls?
There, fixed that for ya
ATT
Boo hoo, Smeagol.
“Darren, make it stop!!!”
Lets say Joe is on trial at some point for his taking of bribes to affect public policy. Do you think the judge would allow the hundreds of videos of Pedo Joe, sniffing girls and babies hair, touching children and women inappropriately, kissing women on the lips without their consent, as evidence of his pattern of using his office for personal gain?
Why dont you just answer the questions as i put them too you, Smeagol the Legal Beagle???
And make sure you cite the case law where hair sniffing was allowed/not allowed as evidence please.
I mean, typically you have all the answers ATT
Professor, remember the America where you were innocent until proven guilty? Gone forever like legitimate elections. Those were the days.
Rest assured, people are still legally innocent until proven guilty.
Dennis
If Hunter is ever threatened with real jail time and offered immunity, do you think he would flip on Joe, his extortionist father who showered with his sister and made Hunter “give him half his salary”?
Hey dennis
Which of your statements regarding violence was a lie?
And also dennis, can you give us your brilliant analysis of this.
Lets say Joe is on trial at some point for his taking of bribes to affect public policy. Do you think the judge would allow the hundreds of videos of Pedo Joe, sniffing girls and babies hair, touching children and women inappropriately, kissing women on the lips without their consent, as evidence of his pattern of using his office for personal gain?
And could the prosecutor then get a psych expert on the stand and ask “if the person exhibits this behavior in full view of cameras and microphones, might that person be capable of much worse in private? Even to the point of shoving his fingers in an aide’s vagina without her consent?”
Of course the psych expert might say “well, it could just be that he only does it on camera because he is demonstrating his power to do whatever the hell he wants and giving the middle finger to the entire world. We also see this in the way he parades his criminal scumbag deadbeat son all over the world with him.”
Jonathan: Just after he was indicted by DA Fani Willis DJT announced he would be holding a press conference and present “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia”. Yeah, that REPORT. It now appears the news conference has been cancelled. DJT’s lawyers are concerned a press conference by their client with such “dubious claims” could jeopardize his legal case.
Sorry. For your loyal followers and MAGA supporters on this blog, it looks like they will have to wait another day for all that “Irrefutable” evidence.
Dennis
If Hunter is ever threatened with real jail time and offered immunity, do you think he would flip on Joe, his extortionist father who showered with his sister and made Hunter “give him half his salary”?
Dennis
“Democrats also support the use of force–but for quite different reasons–” —-Dennis
“The only guy who is inviting violence these days is DJT!” —-Dennis
Both of these statements were in a single post.
Which one is the lie?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Al Gore, his legal team and I tried to find uncounted presidential votes, lobbied officials and fought in the courts in 2000. The only difference now? The candidate’s name is Donald Trump… That’s why this prosecution is an outrage
Lobbied officials about WHAT?
Tried to find uncounted presidential votes HOW?
Fighting in the courts is legal. Trump has not been indicted for fighting in the courts.
I’m on the floor laughing so hard at you.
Anonymous
If Hunter is ever threatened with real jail time and offered immunity, do you think he would flip on Joe, his extortionist father who showered with his sister and made Hunter “give him half his salary”?
ATT
If Hunter is ever threatened with real jail time and offered immunity, do you think he would flip on Joe, his extortionist father who showered with his sister and made Hunter “give him half his salary”?
Gores Team under direction of Dershowitz, called around to counties and asked them to find the votes. I would draw you pictures, but the blog wont take them. It’s clear the English language baffles you.
This is where a lot of you don’t have context and nuance.
First, in 2000 we had a state in Florida which was still not being called and was also the state that would determine the winner. And, with 500 votes being the difference, of course a deeper look had to be done.
So yes going thru the courts (legal) and calling officials to be sure everything was being done the correct way was more than appropriate. Now, calling them and saying “we NEED votes and you could be in big trouble if you don’t do anything” was not part of the discussion – and Dershowitz knows that being a lawyer.
Juxtapose that versus GA (Biden was declared the winner) where the Trump campaign basically made up voter fraud – and was knocked down every turn in the courts (yes, legal). BUT, they still pressed on in ways to get it overturned which is documented and that’s where Trump went to a bridge too far.
That’s a huge difference and why we are where we are.
Marjorie Taylor Greene says has proof of 2020 Georgia election fraud, ex turned away at poll station
“They all went to vote in person but were told they already voted by absentee, but none of them actually did!”
===
This happened to many people and the forms are available for people to view.
We are used to people on the left closing their eyes and drawing unfounded conclusions. This alone shows Trump had reason to believe what he did and reason to ask that this type of illegal activity be found.
The statement can be interpreted two different ways, but just because you lean left doesn’t mean you get to choose the way Trump meant it.
DERSHOWITZ IS SPOT ON IN BRINGING THE GORE CHALLENGES TO LIGHT HERE…. WHICH ONLY SHOWCASES THE POLITICAL PROSECUTION BY FANI WILLIS ET AL.. WILLIS HAS SPENT ALL HER TIME BUILDING A MOST RIDICULOUS CASE….. I HEARD MARK MEADOW’S PHONE CALL ON WHICH HE WAS INDICTED LAST NIGHT – PLAYED IN ITS ENTIRETY ON NEWSMAX.. IT WAS A HUMBLE & DIPLOMATIC CALL, IN TRULY RESPECTFUL, NON THREATENING LANGUAGE & TONE.. ASKING FOR A MEETING TO DISCUSS THE TRUMP CONCERNS.. NOT EVEN ASAP, BUT AT THE CONVENIENCE OF GA, ETC….
Did Mr. Dershowitz gain unauthorized access to voting data in Florida?
The non-electronic equivalent would be literally possessing the infamous “dimpled chads.” If that did not occur, then how is this relevant?
Anyone who seriously cares about the integrity of elections and the security of our voting system should be appalled that a candidate was able to gain unauthorized access to Georgia’s voting data by conspiring with local operatives in Coffee County.
And before you respond with “But he was INVITED,” think: If I invite someone on to your property, is that still trespassing? It doesn’t matter if the invitation came from someone without authority to do so.
Computer trespassing involving voting data is a serious offense. I am waiting for Turley to acknowledge this. This omission, despite numerous articles nominally addressing the Georgia indictment is perhaps the most obvious example of his partisan departure from reality yet.
Did Mr. Dershowitz gain unauthorized access to voting data in Florida?
Move the goal posts much?
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/what-the-heck-happened-in-coffee-county-georgia
Ask Dershowitz if this set of facts looks like Florida and Al Gore.
Which FL county’s voting records did Dershowitz/Gore illegally access?
Long story short: Let’s indict Marc Elias in every single red state where he conspired to throw the election.
If you have actual evidence of Elias conspiring to throw the election — as contrasted with his many totally legal court challenges — then you should contact the DOJ and turn it over.
If Hunter is ever threatened with real jail time and offered immunity, do you think he would flip on Joe, his extortionist father who showered with his sister and made Hunter “give him half his salary”?
Yes, they can park it right next to hunter’s laptop, on the “russian mis dis and malinformation storage shelf.”
You only contact gov agencies now if it’s a rethug or a trumpster critter you’re ratting on.
Tom is right. Several of us are paid trolls, with the sole purpose of coming here and disrupting the conversation. We get our talking points from the media company that pays us. But you guys already knew that, so what’s the big deal?? Please make him stop harassing us.
Tom, you do know that your avatar shows that you posted that anonymously, right? Thanks for admitting that you’re a paid troll. Tom the Troll.
Tell ya what, ATT, i will start using that as my moniker. Because i am gonna continue to troll the trolls until they are gone. Except for you, Smeagol, cuz u like the attention too much.
Jonathan Turley, to view a Jackson Pollack painting one must stand back and take it all in at once.
Similarly the Georgia inditements?
David, art is judged on feelings. They will judge the Georgia indictments based on the law.
I once gave a lecture on Jackson Pollock to about 15+ people in the MOMA, who appreciated it very much.
The back story is quite different. I decided to kid my wife, so I told her I finally understood Jackson Pollock and started explaining what to look for and what I saw. I didn’t notice, but a crowd developed behind me and listened.
Though I am an art enthusiast and collector, I know nothing about Jackson Pollock, not understanding it at all. However, in your world, which is not the world of science, if one provides a good story, you will believe it.
You understand a Pollock perfectly. You talk smack, and people are curious and listen, and absorb, because they haven’t a clue either. Now you taught them, it’s the democrat way.
In college they had fine arts of course, and displays, well a childhood friend of mine had his masterpiece up in the Hall, it won the awards and the competition. It was a mess of reds orange and yellow on a big 4’x6′ canvas, and a fellow student and I stood there for half an hour making fun it. The lower portion we called hell exploding or erupting, then the fireworks all about. Of course there was absolutely nothing distinguishable in the entire painting. It was a joke, and we joked and joked and joked.
I have a friend who is a real artist, a highly skilled man, far beyond Pollock and my childhood top prize charlatan friend.
His work is absolutely incredible. There’s no guessing about what you are viewing.
I tried in my class, and my best was a 2.5″ x 2″ (inch) pencil drawing of the same sized sliced down the center vegetable, according to the teacher. I sat there hunched and squinting for the fine details all the swirls and curls in the thing, it was very painful, tedious, and completely worthless IMO. So the teacher didn’t want art, he wanted effort. Pain. If you tortured yourself sufficiently he liked it. I hate that teacher to this day and don’t remember his face or name, thankfully.
Pollock has no skills.
Bill Watterson explains artists:
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2014/11/09
I would like to propose a new rule in the form of a MAXIMUM number of posts per commenter for any one article. Perhaps 5 posts would be sufficient, or fewer, or more — some REASONABLE number that would prevent several people from hijacking the comment section for their own relentless, JUVENILE sniping back and forth at each other.
Absent such a rule, one could only reasonably conclude that the INSANE, CHILDISH conduct to which I am referring is what Professor Turley actually intends to happen here.
Well, that would only serve the purposes of the trolls who uses various IP’s to post as if they are more than one person and change it when they get sh!tcanned so they can continue to post their lies. Makes me wonder if ATS didn’t just post that under the name Ralph
“Ralph de MinimisF says:”
Does the “F” in that name stand for “fake”??? I knew it…it’s really Dennis
The F is some sort of glitch. The screen name SHOULD be Ralph de Minimis. I’ve no clue what caused the F to appear.
“The F is some sort of glitch. The screen name SHOULD be Ralph de Minimis. I’ve no clue.”
Fixed that for ya.
Dennis would love that rule. Then he could come in here 5 times a day, spew his long winded off topic tirade onto the page and leave. Then Gigi can come in 5 times, lick his a$$, and vomit her 8 to 10 provably false talking points, and fishlips or wally can each take turns lapping up behind them with their clever, whimsical musings. What a wonderful world that would be…
Everyone knows ATS don’t follow no rules, so no matter there….
“Drop dead, moron — or maybe get a life somewhere off of Turley’s comment section.”
Now you sound more like ATS
Also, you might want to go have your blood pressure checked.
Ralph, I love where you are going with this bit I might make it 10 or 20 comments per issue. HOWEVER, and this is important, I wish that the site would end the use of “Anonymous” as a moniker. People can be anonymous, but you can’t be “Anonymous”. It would help to have a name so that we can skip the comments of the obvious trolls such as “Anonymous”, Gigi and a few other obnoxious people that have a need to come to a site where they hate the host, hate the other visitors and then comment 200 times a day…like “Anonymous”. A true scourge.
Here here!!
Although i submit that ATS should be allowed, nay, required to keep his moniker.
I accidentally discovered the other day that the screen name “Anonymous” attaches automatically to a comment if you hit the Post button before filling in you email address and name. So all “Anonymous” aren’t the same person or even necessarily the same handful of people.
Anyway, my point is that SOMETHING needs to be done to transform this site into a respectable forum for relatively mature ADULTS from what it’s become, which is a twisted, digitized, brain-damaged version of Lord of the Flies, due to the bullying tactics of a handful of malignant idiots.
good points….I am leaving so you will have one less Anonymous…
PS I was the good Anonymous
You do realize that a nondescript moniker like Dennis or Gigi maintains your anonymity just as well as Anonymous, right? The difference is people would know you’re the “good one” and not ATS or bug.
Ralph
Two words——anger management
Trump’s comments occurred, legally and constitutionally, on January 2, 2021.
It took Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis two years and seven months to create ch”fake” political charges against her political opponent.
Dennis
“Democrats also support the use of force–but for quite different reasons–” —-Dennis
“The only guy who is inviting violence these days is DJT!” —-Dennis
Both of these statements were in a single post.
Which one is the lie?
Tom, Would it be possible to please discuss these comments in the post where Dennis actually made them to provide appropriate context instead of here (or tomorrow’s post) where we are (or will be) discussing a completely different topic? I think this is a reasonable request and approach that is consistent with the blog civility policy. Thanks.
If one looks at the bottom of Concerned’s response and magnifies it, one can see his signature.
“signed The Little Dictator”
“signed The Little Dictator”
That seems uncalled for. I thought his request was polite and unassuming.
I sat here for weeks and watched Dennis come in several times a day, and within the first 3 lines of his 80 line rant, begin to discuss anything OTHER than what JT’s topic was. He posts his crap with no intention of having an honest conversation about it, cutting and running to his next load of crap. He challenged me that I could not find a lie in his posts, ostensibly because he knows that most of his garbage is conjecture and opinion, presented as fact. I did. Easily. Now he won’t address it, choosing instead to run like a little schoolgirl to his next load of crap.
There cannot be a conversation when one person would hold their hand over their eyes and say, I don’t see it, I dont care if you say it’s there or not.
I gave Gigi the data. She literally said she still didn’t believe the truth because she saw otherwise on NBC news. This goes to the very heart of whats wrong with our country right now.
I know, they’re hopeless, and I am tilting at windmills, but honestly, isn’t that all that is happening here anyway???
Jonathan: DJT’s co-defendants in the Fani Willis indictment are facing hefty legal bills. Sidney Powell is one. Unlike Walt Nauta, it appears DJT is unwilling or unable to pay Sidney’s legal expenses–probably because his legal defense fund is about broke. So what do you do when you have to hire expensive expensive lawyers to the tune of about $750 to $1,000 an hour? You do what DJT does–you fund raise. So Powell is now hawking merchandise: “Use promo SIDNEY20 for a 20% discount @Sidney Powell. com/shop”. For hardcore Sidney fans there is a 8.5 by 11 glossy photo of her. That will set you back only $25.
And what about all the bit players in DJT illegal scheme to overturn the 2020 election? DJT will leave them high and dry. They’re own their own. DJT sucks people into his orbit and then discards them when they no longer serve his purposes.
So when faced with insurmountable legal expenses and facing stiff prison sentences many of the small fry will flip—as fast as a hamburger is flipped in a fast food restaurant. Not good news for DJT. And Sidney Powell? She is a true believer so don’t expect her to flip anytime soon. But who knows, stranger things have happened.
Dennis
“Democrats also support the use of force–but for quite different reasons–” —-Dennis
“The only guy who is inviting violence these days is DJT!” —-Dennis
Both of these statements were in a single post.
Which one was the lie?
So, your argument is that Trump isn’t man enough to take care of those people. When will you be man enough to admit you lied?
Dennis
You are leaving your bootlickers, Gigi and Fishwings, high and dry. Man up and own your lie or at the very least try to explain why, in your small mind, one of those incongruent statements is not a lie. Our democracy is in the balance!!!!
Tom Leonard: DJT is paying the legal bills of Walt Nauta and Carlos de Oliveira in the Mar-a-Lago docs case. Why? Because he doesn’t want them to flip. DJT runs a criminal enterprise. Like most crime bosses he follows the old principle “Keep you friends close and you potential enemies even closer”. If either Nauta or de Oliveira were to flip DJT would drop him like a hot potato! As to the Fulton County case please tell me which of his 18 co-defendants DJT is covering their legal bills. DJT hasn’t paid Rudy Giuliani’s bills for a long time. Do you think he will start now when Giuliani might flip? Get real!
There’s probably 20 or more LLC’s in a spider web of payments and overseas banks taking care of all of them, in other words, there is absolutely no evidence Trump is paying them off to lie for him !
Where’s the money, jack ?!
Pushups, outside,.
dennis the coward
Talk about missing the point! I could give two sh!ts about trump, his codefendants, or your stupid opinion regarding either.
Just ATQ that i asked you.
Which of your statements regarding violence these days, was a lie?
I can see why you won’t address this, aside from having to admit you are small minded and deluded. You know that I will move on to the next example I have in the queue for you.
Dennis
First question. Which statement that you made was a lie?
Second question. If Hunter is ever threatened with real jail time and offered immunity, do you think he would flip on Joe, his extortionist father who showered with his sister and made Hunter “give him half his salary”?
First you say Trump doesn’t have the money to help the others, then you say he’s only looking out for himself & WON’T help the others – which is it?
It’s already made the news that the Dem conspiracy is draining him dry (as obviously intended). And even if he actually doesn’t care about the others, it would arguably be in his own self interest to help them so they don’t flip, so it sounds like you got sidetracked in your own argument by #TDS
“it would arguably be in his own self interest to help them so they don’t flip,”
Dennis is the smartest person he knows, so naturally, he thought the whole “flip” thing was his novel idea. Nobody else, especially trump, is smart enough to know that.
Yes, Dennis, stranger things HAVE happened.
Look up Harrison Deal. He died in a fiery car crash after the car he was driving was sideswiped. He was Gov. Kemp’s daughter’s boyfriend and an aid to Kelly Loeffler.
December 3rd, 2020:
Brian Kemp went onto the Laura Ingraham show and called for a signature verification audit after a video surfaced showing people pulling boxes of ballets from underneath tables and counting them after hours with no election supervisors present which is illegal.
December 4th, 2020:
Gov. Brian Kemp’s family suffers tragedy as his daughter’s boyfriend dies in a fiery car accident.
Sydney Powell came out and alleged that this was a murder in an attempt to put Kemp into submission:
“What we are dealing with here is pervasive and very very dark. Pure evil. They are willing to kill people. Kelly Loeffler’s aid (Harrison Deal) was suddenly blown up in his car on the way to a rally. He happened to be dating Governor Kemp’s daughter. Governor Kemp was considering an audit at that point…”
December 5th, 2020:
Trump holds a rally in Georgia claiming that the election was stolen.
August 15, 2023:
Kemp says the 2020 election was not stolen and there was no evidence of fraud.
Strange coincidences, eh?
Breanna Morello
@BreannaMorello
I stood in Brian Kemp’s office as his staff was served with thousands of sworn affidavits alleging election crimes in GA.
His staffers laughed at the individuals serving him—while they watched CNN.
He’s never taken election fraud seriously.
He’s apart of the problem.
______________________________________________
Brian Kemp
@BrianKempGA
The 2020 election in Georgia was not stolen.
For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward – under oath – and prove anything in a court of law. Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible, and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor.
The future of our country is at stake in 2024 and that must be our focus.
_________________________
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Don’t miss our special coverage, The Plan Revealed: Election Summit, with @realMikeLindell
https://rumble.com/v386pgg-war-room-special-coverage-of-mike-lindells-plan-revealed-presentation.html
Make sure to listen to Prof. David Clements story of why he was fired from his law professor gig for taking a stand for what he knew was right. We need more like him.
Prof. Clements story begins about 30 minutes in…..
https://rumble.com/v386pgg-war-room-special-coverage-of-mike-lindells-plan-revealed-presentation.html
how did that go for you all? LOL
Check this out….
Some important background facts on Georgia’s Gov. Kemp which most people do not know —–>>>
“December 3rd, 2020 Brian Kemp went onto the Laura Ingraham show and called for a signature verification audit after a video surfaced showing people pulling boxes of ballets from underneath tables and counting them after hours with no election supervisors present which is illegal.
December 4th, 2020:
Gov. Brian Kemp’s family suffers tragedy as his daughter’s boyfriend dies in a fiery car accident.
Kemp’s daughter’s boyfriend (Harrison Deal) was driving the car. It was sideswiped. Then it exploded. (Cars don’t usually explode after being sideswiped).
*Sydney Powell came out and alleged that this was a murder in an attempt to put Kemp into submission:
“What we are dealing with here is pervasive and very very dark. Pure evil. They are willing to kill people. Kelly Loeffler’s aid (Harrison Deal) was suddenly blown up in his car on the way to a rally. He happened to be dating Governor Kemp’s daughter. Governor Kemp was considering an audit at that point…”
December 5th, 2020:
Trump holds a rally in Georgia claiming that the election was stolen.
August 15, 2023: Kemp says the 2020 election was not stolen and there was no evidence of fraud.
What happened between now and then?
Was he intimidated into silence?
What if this coincidently timed car accident was more than meets the eye?
When you dissect the details of this case, things begin to look extremely suspicious. Video footage of the scene shows an absolutely huge pillar of smoke emanating from the wreckage. Three cars were on the scene. Do cars really burst into flames like this? What the hell happened here?
Kemp was on the verge of actually looking into fraud as damning videotapes basically forced him to consider it and then right as he was about to do so, this tragedy strike. The timing is almost unbelievable isn’t it? @Ultrafrog17
“We are on the threshold of losing our country to an evil as big as this world has ever seen. We are at an apex in history and we get one chance to save this nation. One chance.” ~Mike Lindell
Don’t miss: The Plan Revealed: Election Summit LIVE today and Thursday 10am-12pm ET & 5pm ET
https://rumble.com/v386pgg-war-room-special-coverage-of-mike-lindells-plan-revealed-presentation.html
NOT A BIG SURPRISE
“We are on the threshold of losing our country to an evil as big as this world has ever seen.”
– Mike Lindell
_____________
The “evil” is communism and America has known since 1860.
“Crazy Abe” Lincoln could have written the Communist Manifesto for Karl Marx.
“…THE RECONSTRUCTION OF A SOCIAL WORLD.”
– KARL MARX TO ABRAHAM LINCOLN
_________________________________
“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.”
– Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837
_____________________________________________________________
“Everyone now is more or less a Socialist.”
– Charles Dana, managing editor of the New York Tribune, and Lincoln’s assistant secretary of war, 1848
______________________________________________________________________________________
“The goal of Socialism is Communism.”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
__________________
“Historian Adam Tuchinsky, in his study of the newspaper, says that the Tribune spurred one of the first public discussions of socialist ideas in the U.S. Greeley and his managing editor, Charles Dana, identified with the utopian socialism of Charles Fourier.”
“The Tribune covered the failed 1848 democratic uprisings in Germany, France, Hungary, Denmark and other European nations. In Paris, Dana reported, “Everyone now is more or less a Socialist.” Dana met Karl Marx who would end up writing over 500 articles for the Tribune on a wide variety of topics. Later Dana was hired by Lincoln to be the Assistant Secretary of War.”
– Dave Anderson
______________
“The workingmen of Europe feel sure that, as the American War of Independence initiated a new era of ascendancy for the middle class, so the American Antislavery War will do for the working classes. They consider it an earnest of the epoch to come that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class, to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world.”
– Karl Marx and the First International Workingmen’s Association to Lincoln, 1864
___________________________________________________________________
“ON DECEMBER 3, 1861, a former one-term congressman, who had spent most of the past dozen years studying dissident economic theories, mounting challenges to the existing political order and proposing ever more radical responses to the American crisis, delivered his first State of the Union address as the sixteenth president of the United States.
“Long before 1848, German radicals had begun to arrive in Illinois, where they quickly entered into the legal and political circles in which Lincoln traveled. One of them, Gustav Korner, was a student revolutionary at the University of Munich who had been imprisoned by German authorities in the early 1830s for organizing illegal demonstrations. After his release, Korner returned to his hometown of Frankfurt am Main where, according to historian Raymond Lohne, “he was one of about fifty conspirators involved in an attack upon the two main city guardhouses and the arsenal at the police facility and jail. This admixture of students and soldiers had planned to seize cannon, muskets, and ammunition; free political prisoners accused of breaking press-censorship laws, and begin ringing the great Sturmglocke (storm bell) of the Dom, the signal for the people to come in from the countryside. At that point, the democratic revolution would be announced…. Unfortunately, they were walking into a trap…. Betrayed by both a spy in their midst, and the reluctance of the common people to rise, nine students were killed, twenty-four were seriously wounded, and by August 3, 1833, Gustav Körner found himself riding into downtown Belleville, Illinois.”
“Within a decade, Korner would pass the Illinois bar, win election to the legislature and be appointed to the state Supreme Court. Korner and Lincoln formed an alliance that would become so close that the student revolutionary from Frankfurt would eventually be one of seven personal delegates-at-large named by Lincoln to serve at the critical Republican State Convention in May 1860, which propelled the Springfield lawyer into that year’s presidential race. Through Korner, Lincoln met and befriended many of the German radicals who, after the failure of the 1848 revolution, fled to Illinois and neighboring Wisconsin. Along with Korner on Lincoln’s list of personal delegates-at-large to the 1860 convention was Friedrich Karl Franz Hecker, a lawyer from Mannheim who had served as a liberal legislator in the lower chamber of the Baden State Assembly before leading an April 1848 uprising in the region—an uprising cheered on by the newspaper Marx briefly edited during that turbulent period, Neue Rheinische Zeitung
—Organ der Demokratie.
“Even as they agreed on homesteading, Greeley and Lincoln wrangled over the timing and scope of an emancipation proclamation. The editor joined Frederick Douglass in demanding that the president take steps to make the Civil War not merely a struggle to preserve the Union, but “an Abolition war.” Even as Greeley and Lincoln exchanged sometimes pointed letters, the Tribune’s longtime managing editor Charles Dana was now working for Lincoln. Officially assigned to the War Department — where he would eventually serve as assistant secretary — Dana’s real role was as an aide and adviser to the president on questions of what the former newspaperman described as the “judicious, humane, and wise uses of executive authority.” That Lincoln spent much of his presidency reading dispatches from and welcoming the counsel of Marx’s longtime editor—like the fact that he awarded military commissions to the numerous comrades of the author of The Communist Manifesto who had come to the United States as political refugees following the failed European revolutions of 1848—is a shard of history rarely seen in the hagiographic accounts that produce a sanitized version of the sixteenth president’s story. In the years following Lincoln’s death, his law partner and political comrade, William Herndon, complained that Lincoln’s official biographers were already attempting “to make the story with the classes as against the masses,” an approach that he suggested “will result in delineating the real Lincoln about as well as does a wax figure in the museum.”
– ISR International Socialist Review