Hillary Clinton has long been one of the most anti-free speech figures in American politics, including calling upon European officials to force Elon Musk to censor American citizens under the infamous Digital Services Act (DSA). She is now suggesting the arrest of Americans who spread what she considers disinformation. It is a crushingly ironic moment since it was her campaign that funded the infamous Steele dossier and spread false stories of Russian collusion during her presidential campaign. Presumably, that disinformation would not be treated as criminal viewpoints.
Speaking on MSNBC’s The Rachel Maddow Show this week, Clinton was asked about continued allegations of Russian efforts to disseminate Russian propaganda in the United States. Clinton responded:
“I think it’s important to indict the Russians, just as Muller indicted a lot of Russians who were engaged in direct election interference and boosting Trump back in 2016. But I also think there are Americans who are engaged in this kind of propaganda. And whether they should be civilly or even in some cases criminally charged is something that would be a better deterrence, because the Russians are unlikely, except in a very few cases, to ever stand trial in the United States.”
The interview was chillingly consistent with Clinton long antagonism toward free speech.
Clinton, of course, was not challenged by Maddow on the fact that her campaign was the conduit for disinformation linked to Russian intelligence services.
Not only did U.S. intelligence believe that the Clinton campaign was used to make the debunked claims, but it was clearly done for purely political purposes.
Clinton efforts were so obvious by July 2016 that former CIA Director John Brennan briefed former President Obama on Hillary Clinton’s alleged “plan” to tie then-candidate Donald Trump to Russia as “a means of distracting the public from her use of a private email server.” The Russian investigation was launched days after this briefing.
Her general counsel, Marc Elias, his former partner Michael Sussmann, and the campaign were later found involved in not just spreading the false claims from the Steele dossier but other false stories like the Alfa Bank conspiracy claim.
It was Elias who managed the legal budget for the campaign. We now know that the campaign hid the funding of the Steele dossier as a legal expense.
New York Times reporter Ken Vogel said that Elias denied involvement in the anti-Trump dossier. When Vogel tried to report the story, he said that Elias “pushed back vigorously, saying ‘You (or your sources) are wrong.’” Times reporter Maggie Haberman declared, “Folks involved in funding this lied about it, and with sanctimony, for a year.”
Elias was also seated next to John Podesta, Clinton’s campaign chairman, when he was asked about the role of the campaign, he denied categorically any contractual agreement with Fusion GPS. Even assuming that Podesta was kept in the dark, the Durham Report clearly shows that Elias knew and played an active role in pushing this effort.
The Clinton campaign lied to the media, spread false claims of Russian disinformation, and was accused of being a conduit for Russian intelligence. So would the “better deterrence” have been for Clinton herself to be arrested?
Sussmann ultimately did stand trial but was acquitted. Notably, John Durham noted that “no one at Fusion GPS … would agree to voluntarily speak with the Office” while both the DNC and Clinton campaign invoked privileges to refuse to answer certain questions.
For a person who is on her fourth memoir, Clinton is remarkably hostile to free speech. Notably, in all of these memoirs, she does not address her prominent role in calling for the censorship and now arrest of those with opposing views. She also does not discuss how her campaign lied to the media and funded the Steele dossier. Perhaps that is coming in the fifth memoir.
What is clear is that Clinton herself has no fear that such prosecution would ever await her. She is one of those who may silence others but not be silenced. The public is to be protected from views that she deemed disinformation, misinformation, or malinformation.
To that end, as one of the guardians of truth, Clinton chastised the media for not being more consistently anti-Trump, a daunting prospect since the media has been accused of running almost 90 percent negative stories on Trump.
Nevertheless, shortly after the second assassination attack on Trump, Clinton called Trump a danger to the world and added that “I don’t understand why it’s so difficult for the press to have a consistent narrative about how dangerous Trump is.”
Ideally, between the arrests of those accused of disinformation and an effective state media, Clinton hopes to rein in errant thoughts and viewpoints.
In the interview, Maddow did not have even a slight objection to the implications of arresting people with criminal viewpoints. Censorship and criminal prosecutions are such mainstream concepts that they are as unsurprising as a fourth Clinton memoir.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. He is the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage” (Simon & Schuster).
When you think you’re the smartest person in the room—and have thought so for decades—it’s an easy step to thinking that your ideas should prevail over all others, and that any means to such an end are justified. After all, you know truth. And you know best. This is the arrogance of many of our self-appointed elites, to whom it never occurs that history might take a different turn from the one they envision. See, e.g, Robespierre, Maximilien, a very brilliant and enormously self-confident fellow with a zeal for wielding power.
I always enjoy hearing someone ruin a Democrat’s lunch by mentioning Robespierre.
Elites, i.e. the snob class. They have been seduced by globalist leftism in commerce, media, and academia at just the point where they should be recognizing globalism is unraveling and leftism hasn’t had a single good idea in 50 years.
They still believe China will mint new billionaires from America’s coasts. That train left the station some years ago. The same can be said for Germany’s flawed dependence on Russia and China, but old habits die hard with the pseudointellectual class.
Turley, as usual, does not cite where the Steele dossier got its actual start (as opo research in the R primary in 2016), and was only picked up by HRC’s campaign once the R’s were done with it. And he also gives no proof of the Steele dossier being debunked…
We all know trump paid Russian prostitutes to piss in a bed Obama once slept in. To think otherwise is just naive. Trump was fresh off his birther tour,, of course he had enough resentment to motivate his actions with the hookers.
The trumptardation is so strong on this blog. You guys peddle so hard to avoid what’s so plainly true about your con man cult leader.
You Democrats amaze me. Four years ago, you nominated a con man because you didn’t want a communist. Now you’ve “nominated” a communist because you’re sick of the con man.
I really don’t think you people are fit to run a dog pound, let alone the Country.
“I really don’t think you people are fit to run a dog pound, let alone the Country.”
89% of the dogs we polled agree with you. The remaining 11% had their noses in their food bowls.
And BTW, Trump would not be my first choice, but you Democrats are at rock bottom. Voting for Trump just to stop you.
This idiot you responded to demonstrates daily that he doesn’t have a clue what allowed DT to ever gain a foothold in American politics.
Like you, I would never have voted for DT were it not for what the left has become. In fact I have not. Until this election.
Welcome! I was a late arrival, too, but I have no doubt now 🙂
I don’t GAF about who your first, or second, or third choice is. You’re clearly delusional and painfully gullible. That’s your cross to bear.
And NO ONE GAF about your delusions, Lawn Boy. Gullible is the idiot who believed that Biden wasn’t senile. That was you.
Diogenes,
Well said!
A vote against Democrats is a vote for,
Free speech.
Women’s rights.
Parents rights.
Keeping pornography out of elementary libraries.
Secure borders.
Supporting the police for safe communities.
No more forever wars or playing WWIII nuclear chicken.
School choice.
The Constitution.
Voting integrity.
To name just a few.
Thumbs up, Upstate 🙂
Your comment if all misinformation, so according Hillary, you must be fines.
“Actual start”? And you know somehow? Guessing Rachell Madow told you.
“We all know piss…” More Madow.
Saving democracy by posting insane lies, certainly helps save democracy.
Get some mental health counseling before you end up washing your mouth out with a.45, we care about you!
“we care about you!”
If that is addressed to the Anonymous whose comment at 11:96 AM began with “Turley, as usual…”, please speak for yourself. Or remove the mouse from your pocket, whatever…
Really ? The most thoroughly debunked nonsense in the past decade and you are still shilling it.
Yes Republicans did conduct Opo research on Trump.
But the Steele Dossier is the creation of a collaboration between the Clinton campaigh, Perkins Coi, Fussion GPS. Steele, Brookings and probable Russian Spy Danchenko.
Regardless the pissing on the bed story origniated fram a DNC flak in the clinton campaigh – as Danchemko confirmed under oath.
Mueller wasted hundreds of pages ranting, but the actual substance part of the report REFUTES all your claims.
Any rational person that had escaped prosecution for treasonous crimes everyone knows they did, would be grateful to slink off into obscurity. She no doubt is rational and she knows as long as President Trump and conservatives remain free to breathe, she and the globalist regime haven’t fully escaped.
Jonathan: You have a lot of obsessions. One is Hunter Biden. Another is Hillary Clinton. She’s not running for President this year. But she is a convenient distraction that you can use to avoid discussing what DJT has planned if he gets back in the Oval Office. He has said he will prosecute and put in jail his political enemies. He now says he will round up all the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, who are lawfully in the US, and deport them immediately to Venezuela. That’s a far greater threat to the rule of law than anything Clinton has to say. So I will do what you have decided to studiously avoid–point out the reasons DJT is not qualified for a second term. It’s not just his 34 criminal count convictions, the 2 civil judgments against him for sexual assault, the $450 million civil judgment in NY for systemic business fraud or the federal prosecutions resulting from his attempt to violently overthrow the last election. No. In this comment I point out that not only is DJT a sociopathic narcissist and lawbreaker but he is a deadbeat.
About 5 years ago my wife and I decided to gut and remodel our kitchen. The supervisor of the crew that completed the work was led by “Ken”. He told me a story that caught my attention. Ken told me he was from Chicago and worked for a small construction company that did some work on Trump Tower in the windy city that was completed in 2009. Ken related that the owner of his company told employees he was closing the company and filing for bankruptcy because DJT refused to pay his bills. Ken was forced to relocate to find construction work and why he said he harbored so much resentment against DJT ever since.
I began to connect the dots when I saw an article in the Independent (9/12/29) with the headline “Trump Tower ruled a public nuisance after thousands of fish die”. A Federal judge ruled last week that Trump Tower is a public nuisance and an environmental hazard for killing thousands of fish from the Chicago River. In a lawsuit the Illinois AG and environmental groups sued DJT alleging he operated without a proper state water permit and does not accurately report water discharge levels. According to the Independent reporting the Trump Tower “intake system pulls 20 million gallons of water daily from the Chicago River to cool the building”. The result is that fish have been sucked into the system. That is a violation of state environmental laws according to the judge in his ruling.
Then there is an article in Business Insider (9/13/24) with the headline “”Trump had to front $145,000 to secure a rally space in Arizona amid reports he left an unpaid bill at the same venue in 2016”. What’s that about? According to the article in 2016 DJT used the same Tucson Convention for a campaign event. He left without paying the bill of $87,837. Since that bad experience, the City this year requires DJT to front the cost of the venue. The Mayor of Tucson, Regina Romero was quoted as saying: “You know, the former president is entitled to come to any place he wants in Arizona. It’s up to the Trump campaign to pay their bills”. DJT has left a long trail of unpaid bills. The WP reported that in 2019 the Trump campaign had at least $1 million in unpaid bills from cities around the country.
Why relate all this? As the election approaches we should know everything about the former president. That he is not only a “convicted felon” but also a deadbeat. There are “deep flakes” and then there is DJT!
Without evidence, but by a judge and jury of his liberal peers. A witch hunt in the progressive vernacular of secular tradition.
Deare n.n.: You might want to check out the book–“Lucky Loster” that goes through DJT’s finances, the money he got from his daddy and squandered with his irresponsibility and lack of financial skill, and how he mislead and manipulated people into investing in his businesses.
Gigi,
Why in the world would I want to read a book by someone who claims to know about the PRIVATE finances of another person ?
Your premise is NOT CREDIBLE.
Do you think your author would be able to write a book about YOUR personal finances ? Which are likely 10,000 times simplere than Trumps, and likely far more is available to the public ?
Why is it that you left wing nut constantly beleive this absurd nonsense ?
You watch way too much TV and you beleive far too much of the nonsense that The entertainment industry puts out.
Over the 20th century – more people were killed by GOVERNMENT than by Crime.
And far more people were killed by Crime than by business.
The corporate criminal stuff you see on TV happens – unbeleivably rarely and almost entirely in countries that are corrupt to the core.
And rarely as described.
Regardless, the most dangerous actors in history are GOVERNMENT – the worst polluters are Government.
Whoever we elect as president will be DANGEROUS.
That is because they will have the massive power that comes from the presidency.
The GREATEST danger that person poses is in the domain of international relations.
Biden is being pushed to allow Ukraine to use long range weapons to attack Russia.
There are many good arguments for doing so. ‘
THE argument against is “Does Putin mean it this time when he says that is a giant red line” ?
I do not know the answer – nor do you. Nor does Biden.
But if Biden does decide to allow that, there is a small chance Putin will respond in a way that could trigger global nuclear war – with 3billion dead in a year and 300M dead in half an hour.
There is no other place that the power to deliberately or accidentally kill that many people exists.
That is the extreme end of that power. But the president also has the power to start or join smaller conflicts to put tens of americans in harms way or thousands.
Whether we elect Harris or Trump – one of them will have that dangerous power.
Government does not EVER fix the economy – but they are ALWAYS responsible for breaking it.
Government economic mistakes will cause significant harm to large numbers of people.
You rant about Trump, but starting With Obama, it has been Democrats – Obama, Biden, Harris and others who have used government power particularly the power of govenrment to lock people up against political enemies.
You rant that Trump said he will lock up his enemines – he did not actually say that, what he said was they he would be justified in doing so.
Why would he be justified ? Because that is exactly what those of you on the left have tried to do to him.
Regardless, Yes the left SHOULD be afraid of Trump – they should be afraid he MIGHT behave like they do.
If you are not on the left – it is Harris you should be affraid of.
Dennis
Typically a Utility company would provide water at a fee to a customer. It would be metered as potable, fire or as chiller water, the raw water withdrawal would typically be under some kind of consumptive use permit by the Utility. I am sure that every high rise building in Chicago does this. Further, when a Contractor goes belly up, there is this thing called bonding as well as Notice of Intent and Mechanics Lien Law. As you are a well respected attorney living on the Hills overlooking a Trump golf course, you should know this. Now, go to your corner an STFU.
What those on the left fail to understand is that outside of government – we have had people try all kinds of things for thousands of years.
Well developed systems exist to preclude the nonsense they are claiming.
When a building is built – the primary design liability for all systems is with the architect and engineer not the owner.
If there is a design failure – while lots of people will be sued – it is the architect and engineer – or their insurance company that will foot the bill.
The construction of the building is the responsibility of the CONTRACTORS. All the myriads of permits are the responsibility of contractors – not the owner.
The system of payments is very well defined and elaborate from centuries of experience.
Owners do not just get to decide to pay some sub contractor – a party they do not have any legal relationship with.
Sub contractors as the name implies – have contracts with prime contractors.
Owners have contracts with a few primes – not every door hardware manufacturer.
Supporting someone like Hillary Clinton who has been at the helm and in the middle of many bad outcomes shows who you are. She is the poster child for the forefathers wanted to protect us from, and why the US Constitution and Bill of Rights was written in the way it was. I do not need, nor want or allow her to be the purveyor of what information I can hear.
Whenever J Biden is in bed, which is most of the time, his wife cavorts with her favorite WH staffer. Joyfully.
That’s where the slogan “Joy” comes from.
But you knew that.
I began to connect the dots when I saw an article in the Independent (9/12/29)
Dennis is a time traveler. I KNEW it!
Dennis thinks this blog is a Supermarket Tabloid, and that Jonathan should talk about the nonsense Dennis chooses.
DJT is a capitalist, Dennis. Remember capitalism? And he suffered from no political taint that I am aware of prior to 2015. So he is not of the swamp. Those factors along with how he conducted himself as POTUS get him my vote again. Do I want a much more muscular approach to screening and managing personnel from him in a second term? Yes, I certainly do. Do I want to feel comfortable that the Bill of Rights would have a champion? Yes, I certainly do. Do I care one iota about “reproductive rights” beyond being glad it is now a state-level issue? No, I certainly do not. Your (presumably) preferred candidates are career losers who never produced anything. A government-employed lawyer (enough said) and a schoolteacher who was indoctrinating kids with who knows what sort of anti-American tripe. And God help us they hail from California and Minnesota/China. Three failed states. I can think of no positive outcome from installing these two morons as the next puppets for the BHO handlers to manipulate. They bring no character whatsoever to the table. Useful idiots surely applies here. And while I do not know who you are or where you are, based upon your pontifications I am thinking it applies to you as well.
Hunter Biden – any rational parents worst nightmare as a child.
The good news is that Biden will leave office and even after a pardon – barring a miracle Hunter Biden will spend the rest of his life drifting in and out of prison.
Hillary Clinton – possibly the most dispicable person ever in US politics.
Nearly everyone want Hillary to go away – yet people Like Rachal Maddow keep giving her a platoform to continue to poison US politics
“She’s not running for President this year.”
She is not, but she unfortunately is a major power in democratic politics. I am sure that Turely and I would both be ecstatic if she degenrated into irrelevance. Unfortuntely she hasn’t.
If she would just quit saying stupid things – we could all ignore her.
“what DJT has planned if he gets back in the Oval Office.”
We know what he has planned – we know what he did.
“He has said he will prosecute and put in jail his political enemies.”
Actually he said he would be justified in doing so. He also said he was not going to.
Regardless we still have courts and a legal system – do you honestly think Trump’s political enemies will be prosecuted if they have committed no crimes ?
It is also rich listening to the leaders of political prosecutions complaining because they might be hoist by their own petard.
“He now says he will round up all the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio,”
Possibly – there are probably more than 10M illegal immigrants who have flooded this country in the past 3+ years.
“who are lawfully in the US,”
No they are hear illegally, they have a temporary amenesty from the Biden administration.
Haiti is practically the pinnacle of $hithole countries.
Haiti shares a beautiful island with another country – the Dominican Republic.
The DR has a decent standard of living. reasonable govenrment and decent education – as a result it is NOT a $hithole country.
Haiti has been a $hithole country my entire lifetime. They have received Billions in aide. Haiti is backwards, in some of the worst poverty in the western hemisphere – possibly the world.
More importantly Haiti is a disaster of its own making.
Haiti is a disfavored nation in US immigration policy – we do not grant asylum to haitians – they are fleaing an economic and political mess of their own making.
There is good reason for the US to foster immigrants who are escaping tryanny. There is little reason for the US to want immigrants who have made their own country into a cesspool and now want to do the same here.
I have freinds from the DR – they are racially and ethnically the same as Haiti – they are welcome in the US
There is every reason to beleive those from the DR will succeed in the US and contribute.
While the majority of Haitians will not. And some will eat our cats.
Deporting Haitians is not a threat to the rule of law, it IS the rule of law.
The do not qualify for immigration or asylum under US law. They do not belong here.
If the US doubled it legal immigration – it likely would take no more people from Haiti.
They do not qualify for asylum.
They have no basis to legally immigrate to the US.
While I doubt we will see mass deportations under Trump,
if by some miracle massive numbers of haitians were deported – THAT would be following the rule of law.
Accross the world we have many prior examples of people victims of lawless political oersecution who have been thrown in jail and gone on to lead their nation.
Should Nelson Mandela have been rejected as President of South Africa because he was convicted and jailed for terrorism ?
Regardless, you do not seem to grasp that it is YOUR lawlessness – the very thing you celebrate that has boosted Trump’s odds.
You have made him into a Martyr several times over.
You have no one to blame but yourself.
Regardless, all the lawfare in NY will go down the tubes over time.
As to your “anecdote” – I have no idea if there is a real “Ken” But I do know the story is a lie.
The construction contracts on projects like Trump Tower chigago are for many millions of dollars. Possibly hundred of millions.
There are only two arrangements that are used for those types of projects.
A General Contractor and several primes model, and a Construction Manager arrangment.
In BOTH arrangement the OWNER – Trump has one to half a dozen multi-million dollar contracts with the prime contractors.
All the sub contractors have contracts with those primes – not the owner.
I have been over this with you before. I am a registered architect in the state of Pensylvania and have been for decades. I have been in building construction my entire life. The claims you are making regarding Trump are both a practical, contractual and legal impossibility.
Just about every construction project in the US is conducted under one of a very small number of AIA standard contracts.
ALL of those are between an Owner and one or a handful of Prime contractors. In every instance by law and by contract the ARCHITECT is the final arbitrator of disputes – including payment desputes – NOT the owner. The next step after the ARCHITECT is usually binding arbitration.
In the 21st century – and likely earlier in projects the scale of trumps, there is another industry that has become more heavily involved – the Due Diligence industry – that is ONE of the small businesses I own today. We BADLY saw bits of that in the Enmoron Trial.
Unless Trump self finances his own construction – which almost no one does – and we KNOW trump does not – that was a critical part of James’s case. Owners get Construction loans from Banks. When they do one of the things that BANKS do is insert themselves into the process of payment to contractors. I get hired by banks to visit a construction project, assess the work that has been done and to review and approve payments applications. Should the owner or contractor try to pay for work that is not complete or materials that are not stored on site – the Bank will refuse. Should a sub contractor claim they were not paid – the Bank will step in.
People on construction projects CONSTANTLY claim they have not been paid money they are owed.
In the VERY RARE instance that is actually true – the owner, the architect the prime contractors, arbitrators, and ever courts would all have to conspire to do so – or more likely they would all find that the payment was not earned.
Regardless these idiotic claims like your alleged claim by this mysterious “Ken” can not occur.
NEXT, no one likes to tell people they no longer have a job. i have had to do that many times in my life.
If you own a business and you have to tell someone that works for you they are fired – while that MIGHT be a failure on their part – it is ALWAYS a failure on your part. Eeven if an emplyee is fired for theft – YOU hired them.
When you have to lay of many people or worse close a business it is ALWAYS your Fault. It is YOUR business, whatever the problem it was YOUR responsibility to anticipate it and avoid it. ALWAYS.
If Ken’s former boss was telling him that he was laying people off and going bankrupt because Trump did not pay – he is lying – not just because that is not possible. But because it is not relevant. If you are going bankrupt YOU failed.
One of my businesses had 2M in AR and 400K in debt on 9/11/2001 – It took enormous effort to avoid going under.
A year later we still had 400K in debt and we now had 1M in AR that was over 360 days.
It took 10 years to collect the last 500K of that debt. We did not anticipate 9/11. We did not realize that suddenly people could quit paying their debt to us for more than a year.
Had we gone bankrupt – that would have been our problem.
I do not know the facts of Ken’s boss’s business. But I do know three things.
People make mistakes and bankruptices happen – Trump has had businesses go bankrupt.
If it is your business it is YOUR fault – problems come with owning a business. Dealing with them is YOUR job.
That is why you will get rich if successful, and lose everything if not.
You can start again. it happens all the time.
You provided alot of examples – that I have no reason to trust – but MOST leave the question of Why is government involved ?
Or why did govenrment screw up.
With respect to your fish story. You can not construct a major building in the US without getting all the required permits.
You can not remove water from a river without a permit.
BTW I thought all the fish in the rivers at chicago died decades ago. Or so the left has told me.
You can not start construction without design approval, you can not issue final payment to contractors without all permits being closed out.
You can not convert from a construction loan to a mortgage without proving full code compliance.
You and your sources have absolutely no idea how construction and building codes work.
I do, I have been specifically in that end of construction my entire life.
I walked construction sights with my father at 4.
Your stories are not plausible. Someone is lying – and it can not be Trump.
Things do not work the way you claim.
I would further note – the requirement to get the permits for a building fall EITHER to the architects and engineers for system design approval, or to the Contractors for final approval to operate. Building owners only fail to get permits on episodes of “the sopranos”
This is an entertainment stapple – not real life.
Dennis pretty much all your anecdotes – whether Anti Trump or not all have a common theme.
The unwillingness of those involved – often YOU to take responsibility for their own lives.
If you spend your life dwelling on the real or immagined harms you have experienced – you will have a $hitty miserable life.
If someone has dumped a pile of shiff on you – you get a few moments to bitch.
After that Start digging – no one else is getting you out of the shiff.
Almost Every bad thing that has happened in my life is atleast partly my own fault – but no matter how large the portion that was caused by someone else – getting out from under is sometine ONLY I can do.
Your entitled to a moment. But the sooner you get to digging out – the better your life will be.
I almost never dwell on the people who have screwed me, except for actual betrayals by close friends or family.
People who are constantly carping about the perceived harms others have done to them – have $hitty lives.
and are nearly always wrong. They screwed themselves.
Why would a city own a convention center ? I know that happens – but it is absurdly stupid.
Why would anyone think a city would know how to run a convention center ?
As to your claim – Only the government gets away with not paying people for years.
My wedding was 41 years ago – but as I recall I had to pay for EVERYTHING up front.
No one sane is going to let you have a hundred million plus building without paying up front and putting down a huge deposit against damages.
You left wing nuts do not live in reality.
You watch too much TV – which is the only place these things happen.
Locker her up. LOL
JT, your hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.
trump has called for people to be beat up at his rallies. And his sick fans complied.
Don Lemon listed a few of the things trump has said.
“So, he’s called everyone who works in this (CNN) building ‘the enemy of the people,’ right,” Lemon said of Trump’s rhetoric toward mainstream media outlets including CNN, going on to list his nicknames for other opponents. “Crooked Joe. Crooked Hillary. Crooked Kamala. Comrade Kamala. Deranged Jack Smith. Birdbrain Nikki Haley,”
Here is more directly from trump’s mouth
“The Rhetoric, Lies, as exemplified by the false statements made by Comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC Debate, and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to inflict damage on Joe’s, then Kamala’s, Political Opponent, ME, has taken politics in our Country to a whole new level of Hatred, Abuse, and Distrust,” Trump wrote yesterday on Truth Social.
It is not just what people SAY, it is also what they DO.
Clinton has been actively involved in Obama administration efforts to jail people for saying things that ran counter to her narratives
“Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, the Coptic Christian whose short video “The Innocence of Muslims” was initially faulted for sparking the Sept. 11, 2012 terror attack at U.S. diplomatic compounds in Libya, is now living in a homeless shelter run by First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif. He has served time in prison, been shamed publicly by the White House and threatened with death.”
Benghazi was a deliberate Terrorist attack – and Clinton New that nearly immediately. Yet, she blamed it on the film and lead the Efforts to have Nakoula jailed.
Do you have a single instance in which Trump tried – much less actually succeeded in jailing anyone for something they said ?
Do you have a single instance of Trump actually tried to jail anyone ?
Democrats – including Clinton do what they say they will do when they talk of jailing people over political differences.
.
Rhetoric has the power to cause harm, as we have already witnessed in both the US and the UK. Making statements that provoke others to engage in hateful rhetoric and spreading rumors that ultimately lead to harm have real consequences. It is crucial to be mindful of the words we use, and Trump is fully aware of this. Despite any claims of ignorance, he knows that his supporters will act on his words by encouraging and inciting violence against those targeted by Trump’s demagoguery.
It’s disingenuous and dishonest to pretend that only Democrats engage in this behavior.
“Rhetoric has the power to cause harm, as we have already witnessed in both the US and the UK. Making statements that provoke others to engage in hateful rhetoric”
Only Trump is being shot at.
“Muslims in this country are an existential threat to our Democracy and way of life”
“It’s on us to recognize the threat Muslims pose.”
“Does one of us [he and Omar] have to come out alive?”
“Muslims are a genuine threat to this nation …They are literally a threat to everything America stands for”
“Omar and the Muslims represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic … and that is a threat to this country.”
And here’s what should be your favorite
“Muslims are destructive to our democracy and …They have to be eliminated”
Obviously, these were not statements made by Ted Cruz. And they weren’t about Muslims. Maybe you’d like a shot at assigning the origination? Pro tip, some of them have been repeated over and over by several democrats.
Or maybe you like Rick Wilson’s honesty better “They’re still going to have to go out and put a bullet in Donald Trump.”
“Rhetoric has the power to cause harm”
Nope. you are free to punish the words of someone else with words of your own.
You are not free to punish words with FORCE.
We punish ACTS with FORCE.
I think it was unwise and stupid for Biden to “put Trump in the Bullseye” – but it is still words.
Mr. Crooks and Mr. Rouf are responsible for their acts.
Many of us ARE blaming democrats – not because we really think they are culbable – but becaus the tremdous hypocracy of democrats is revealed by left wing acts of violence.
“as we have already witnessed in both the US and the UK.”
I have seen no such thing.
Or are you telling me that every democrat who suggested violence to Trump should be jailed ?
You do not actually beleive what you claim – or you would be jailing democrats.
You drown in hypocracy.
“Making statements that provoke others to engage in hateful rhetoric and spreading rumors”
All free speech. Further as we have seen in the REAL world, 9 times out of ten it is what those of you on the left call Truth that turns out to be false. And what you call a lie that turns out ot be truth.
That is one of many reasons we punish ACTS not words. It is unebeleivably common place for the majorty of people, or the majority of those of one political persausion or the majority of experts to be certain something is true that proves false.
If we are that bad at knowing what is true we should never have the power to use force to punish what is false.
Because we will be wrong most of the time.
“that ultimately lead to harm have real consequences. ”
Nope, Real harm is cause by ACTS, not words.
“It is crucial to be mindful of the words we use”
It is – you will be punished for your words – by ordinary people who will chose to beleive you or disbeleive you
If you are constantly wrong – your credibility will diminish.
If you – lie – you will be treated as a liar.
Government has nothing to do with this.
“Trump is fully aware of this.”
He is , and he uses it to his advantage. He boosts his credibility and costs you yours, by simply being right far more than his enemies.
“Despite any claims of ignorance”
What claims of ignorance ? Beat that straw man to death.
“he knows that his supporters will act on his words by encouraging and inciting violence against those targeted by Trump’s demagoguery.”
False, first each of us is responsible for our own acts.
Mr. Crooke is dead because of his. Mr. Rouf does not get a pass because Harris or Biden incited him.
But if we are going to play your game – nearly all the actual violence is from the left.
If peoples words are responsible for other peoples ACTS – then you democrats, and the entire left bear enormous responsibility.
It is very unwise to set up warped standards that will result in your own damnation.
“It’s disingenuous and dishonest to pretend that only Democrats engage in this behavior.”
I don;t.
I hold Democrats accountable for their rhetoric – with MY rhetoric – as I am doing to you right here and now.
You are wrong, your ideas are unethical and disgusting, they will not work and they lead rapidly to tyrany.
But I am not locking you up. I am not asking that FORCE be used against you for your words.
That would be immoral – just as YOU are immoral.
People are responsible for their ACTS. They can be subject to the use of FORCE as punishment for ACTS.
Words are punished by WORDS only.
And please no nonsense like Perjury – there are rare and well defined instances in which words are also acts.
That is NOT what we are talking about and you know it.
“So, he’s called everyone who works in this (CNN) building ‘the enemy of the people,’ right,”
So ? They are the enemy of the people.
Calling someone “the enemy of the people is NOT the same as locking them up
“Crooked Joe. Crooked Hillary. Crooked Kamala. Comrade Kamala. Deranged Jack Smith. Birdbrain Nikki Haley,”
Giving people nicknames is NOT the same as locking them up.
“The Rhetoric, Lies, as exemplified by the false statements made by Comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC Debate, and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to inflict damage on Joe’s, then Kamala’s, Political Opponent, ME, has taken politics in our Country to a whole new level of Hatred, Abuse, and Distrust,”
What part of that is false ? What part of that is actually threatening tpo use the power of government and law to jail someone ?
Hillary has used government power to put people in Jail.
None of your examples is even a THREAT to use the power of government against political enemies.
Please learn a tiny bit about logic.
He doesn’t need logic. He has “reading comprehension”.
“ Calling someone “the enemy of the people is NOT the same as locking them up”
Trump’s declaration of the media as “the enemy of the people” is a clear attempt to manipulate his followers into distrusting any information that challenges his assertions and claims. This dangerous rhetoric leads his supporters to overlook the real issues at hand.
“ The Rhetoric, Lies, as exemplified by the false statements made by Comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC Debate, and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to inflict damage on Joe’s, then Kamala’s, Political Opponent, ME, has taken politics in our Country to a whole new level of Hatred, Abuse, and Distrust,”
What part of that is false ?”
All of it. He willingly accepted the terms and format of the debate months in advance. He has been convicted of multiple crimes, including 34 felony counts of falsifying business documents, and has also been found liable for sexual assault. These legal issues are a result of his actions and decisions. Do you think the debate was rigged or biased? Trump lied incessantly during the debate, and Harris successfully goaded him. She demonstrated how easy it was to manipulate Trump. Everyone, including his supporters and enablers on Fox News, saw it.
Trump is complaining about the debate’s “unfairness” because he knows he performed poorly. He can’t accept that he lost to Harris, and instead of learning from his mistakes, he makes baseless claims about the debate being rigged.
“Trump’s declaration of the media as “the enemy of the people” is a clear attempt to manipulate his followers into distrusting any information that challenges his assertions and claims. This dangerous rhetoric leads his supporters to overlook the real issues at hand.”
LMAO
The MSM has made their own bed, you ninny. NO ONE trusts them anymore. The decline predates Trump.
Ony 18% of americans have a “great deal” of confidence in the media. These are of course the same 18% who say the pee tape is real, Alpha Bank was not a hoax, Hunter’s laptop is Russian disinfo, and the economy is great.
Are you among the 18%, Svelaz?
“ The decline predates Trump.”
The decline happened around the same time as Trump’s campaign and presidency. His false claims are one of the biggest reasons why trust in the media is so low. He instigated the attack on the media to give his followers a reason not to trust it simply because he said so.
“The decline happened around the same time as Trump’s campaign and presidency. His false claims are one of the biggest reasons why trust in the media is so low. He instigated the attack on the media to give his followers a reason not to trust it simply because he said so.”
No George Trust in media and trust in government has been declining for a long time.
While that may have accelerated under Trump – it goes back atleast to Bush and honestly though at a much slower rate to LBJ.
Further if you were correct – that words alone could destroy Trust – no one would be voting for Trump.
Harris’s media coverage is 83% positive and Trumps 91% negative – and yet this purportedly is a horse race.
You do not seem to grasp that words have very little long term impact UNLESS THEY ARE TRUE.
Trump has attacked the media – and their trust has declined. Because the attacks are true.
The media and the left has far more relentlessly attacked Trump – and yet he is winning the election.
Because the attacks are lies by liars.
If you really beleived that words alone cause the destruction of trust – Trump would be dead meet.
He is not. Once again you do not live in reality.
Svelaz, you know nothing about the subject matter. That is typical. We could debate every issue you mention and prove you to be a fool and ignorant, but as has been done before. I will provide proof that despite your mouth continuously moving you know nothing.
…
Svelaz, I am still waiting.
When the Ottoman Empire broke up, portions of the Middle East were divided into Mandates. Some of the major countries of the time each got a piece of land, which, under specific laws, was to be divided up to become nation-states. That is how many of the countries were created and the boundaries settled. Therefore, each country created worked under the same international rules.
What happened to the British Mandate?
Time for you to respond, but you don’t. You can’t. You are too stupid to do so.
S. Meyer, your repetitive demand for an answer to your pointless question lacks value or relevance. Your thoughts lack coherence.
Your problem, Svelaz, is that I have educated opinions you do not understand. Anyone can look at my content, but you are stark naked when it comes to content. That site of ignorance should be banned as clueless pornography. You don’t care because you are an exhibitionist willing to discuss your stupidity anytime, day or night.
“Trump’s declaration of the media as “the enemy of the people” is a clear attempt to manipulate his followers into distrusting any information that challenges his assertions and claims.”
Correct – it is ALSO true. The media has DEMONSTRATED that they are not trustworthy.
There is nothing wrong with calling liars liars – I do that with you constantly.
If I do so falsely – my credibility will be damaged – so far I am doing fine.
If I do so truthfully – your deceit is exposed and my credibility increases.
That is how free speech works – we are held accountable for our speech by changes in our credibility.
“This dangerous rhetoric leads his supporters to overlook the real issues at hand.”
False and stupid. There is nothing wrong with calling a liar a liar – that is an incredibly stupid argument on your part.
Danger is REDUCED by decreasing the trust of those who lie repeatedly.
What real issues are being overlooked ? It is the left that does not live in reality ?
It is the left that is fixated on nonsense like identity and rhetoric.
We have a hilaarious example at the moment – there is a couple of women on Ticktock who are sticking Dildos in their pants and making lite Trans porn – because aparently that is very popular. MTF Trans as calling them out for trying to appropriate their identity.
How is Women presenting as Trans different from Men presenting as women ? Who is appropriating Whose identity ?
Regardless “identify” however you please – and I will identify YOU as I please.
Whether you like it or not “A is A” you can not overcome reality by claiming an identity.
The POINT is that those of you on the left fixate on the unreal and the relatively unimportant.
over 100,000 people are dying of drug overdoes each year – that is REAL.
Even more are ruing their lives – also real.
Kids are being trafficed as sex slaves – the Biden/Harris administration has lost 300,000 kids in the past 3+ years.
We do not know what is happening to them – for some of them it is h311.
Those of you on the left want millions of new immigrants each year. Lets presume that is on NET a good idea – though it is an idea that you DO NOT get to impose on everyone by force and one that should be seriously diebated first – you do NOT just get to say “I am right” and impose your will on others by force. But lets assume you are right.
Does that mean just opening the borders and letting anyone in is a good idea ?
Terrorists, rapists, drug dealers and their soldiers ? There are atleast 375M people globally who would come to the US if they could – probably more if we made it easy. Do we take all of them ? Some of them ? How many ?
Or do we just let hordes storm the border ?
Do you allow whoever wants to come into your home ?
Even if we as a nation decide to have more immigration – that does not mean we take all the terrorists, violent criminals, drug dealers and perverts who want into the country.
I do not recall if Trump specifically identified Haiti as a $hithole country – but it clearly is.
If we have a choice between Chinese, Thais, Cambodians, Indians, Malasyians – even palestinians and Hatians – the country will be better off being more selective about haitians and less about almost any others. Haiti is a disaster of its own making. We do not need people who F34ked up their own country here.
The west has provided massive aide to Haiti my entire lifetime – with no success.
The point again – is that you do not live in reality. If you are going to let 3M people into the country each year – you STILL should be shoosing WHO. And Haiti is near the bottom of the list.
But you do not live in reality – you avoid making choices and instead live in lala land causing chaos and destruction where ever you go.
The media is NOT talking about REAL issues. Their talking about nonsense.
You are NOT talking about real issues.
Trump is talking about real issues.
And that is why he will be president.
“All of it.”
Again you do not live in reality.
” He willingly accepted the terms and format of the debate months in advance.”
Correct and that is NOT the format and terms that occured.
This is a stupid claim on multiple levels.
You seem to think that this is all a game – that whatever it takes to win is OK.
People should not an do not want a tilted debate. Many claim Harris won. But there is no evidence of that in the polls – she appears to have LOST a point post debate. Whatever you think about winning/losing – the EFFECT of the debate was not good for Harris.
That is what happens when you you are inauthentic and evasive. The entire debate was mostly meaningless regarding Trump.
Everyone knows or thinks they know Trump and they are not changing their views.
It is Harris that most people do not really know. Spraying platitudes and emoting might get you the job of national therapist, it is not what people are looking for in a president. Among other things they want someone who will not start a global nuclear war, Who has a clue regarding the argument. One of the most telling moments in the debate was when Harris talked about having the support of people from UofP Wharton school of Business – and Trump pointed out that Trump was actually From Wharton. Harris is NOT. She has never demonstrated competence in ANY subject – much less economics.
You can disagree with me – but the POINT of a debate is to ask the HARD questions and to get ACTUAL answers.
It is not to play “gotcha”. It is not to tilt the playing field. It is not to get your prefered candidate elected.
It should be crystal clear to everyone – that people rejected 4 more years of Obama when they rejected Clinton.
They were clearly rejecting 4 more years of Biden when Democrats sabotaged him.
Harris has YET to tell anyone whether she is 4 more years of Biden or Obama or whether she has the clightest clue about any of the REAL problems facing our country.
The purpose of this debate was to find that out. The malfeasance of ABC might has made Harris look good, but it did her no actual good – because ulimately we need more than style from a president – we need SUBSTANCE.
ABC failed – partly because they were biased, but mostly because they did not bring forth the REAL Kamala Harris – whatever that is.
And voters especially independents walked away wanting – and Harris gained only 3:10 undecideds accoring to numerous post debate polls while Trump gained 6:10.
Harris without a doubt won the debate on style – but that is not what voters are looking for. And therefore ABC failed.
And they failed corruptly.
“He has been convicted of multiple crimes, including 34 felony counts of falsifying business documents, and has also been found liable for sexual assault.”
Ignoring the false spin – SO WHAT ? The critical jury – voters found him NOT GUILTY.
Your lawfare failed. The very things you are fixated are the reasons that many are voting AGAINST YOU.
You created a martyr – that is on YOU.
“These legal issues are a result of his actions and decisions.”
No they are the result of YOURS.
“Do you think the debate was rigged or biased?”
Of course it was – but I do not really care. It is relatively clear that Harris won on style.
it is also relatively clear she did not deliver to undecideds what they wanted.
In my opinon – Just like your lawfare – the rigged debate HURT Harris, not Trump.
“Trump lied incessantly during the debate”
We hear that from you all the time – but that is NOT what voters heard.
You need to get out of your bubble.
Trump exagerates and over simplifies. But that is NOT lying, and he was correct on the issues.
In fact on most of the Fact checks ABC was flat out WRONG.
“Harris successfully goaded him.”
A little – but not really that much. Certainly not in anyway that mattered.
Trump had good moments and less good ones – but his Close was Excellent.
And more important it was DAMNING. Harris has left everyone guessing.
It is highly unlikely that is the way to get elected. That is certainly the picture painted by post debate polls.
“She demonstrated how easy it was to manipulate Trump.”
Not only false – but stupid.
Is that your idea of what you want in a president – not someone who knows what they are doing, but someone who goads and manipulates people ? Trump did not lose his cool – but lets say that he had ? Do you want Pres. Harris to “goad” Putin into losing his cool and starting a nuclear war ?
You have these really odd ideas of what a president should be.
You are not in reality.
We have real problems – entirely of YOUR making that need solved.
We do not need a master manipulator, we need someone who has a clue.
While there was plenty of room for ABC to fact check Harris – personally fact checking is something that VOTERS should do AFTER the debate – not moderators during it.
But more imporantly Harris gave a few more – likely made up anecdotes about her life – with claims like that she was middle class in a middle class neighborhood. In Berkeley ? Really ?
She says her values have never changed – how do we know ? What are her values ?
She seems to think that empathy for the middle class is critical. Rather that what are you going to actually do to improve the middle class.
I am going to accomplish something – by magic, is NOT what people wanted to hear.
“Trump is complaining about the debate’s “unfairness” because he knows he performed poorly.”
Trump is complaining because the unfairness was readily apparent and that works FOR him.
“He can’t accept that he lost to Harris, and instead of learning from his mistakes, he makes baseless claims about the debate being rigged.”
According to those of you on the left – Trump lost 4 debates to clinton – yet he won the election and pulled up 7pts on her in the last 90 days.
According to the left Trump lost the debates to Biden – even though Biden lied about everything – and Trump gained 8+pts on Biden in the last 90 days.
I am sure Trump will be happy to have you rant that Harris won the debate – while he has already gained ATLEAST 1 pt on her.
And once again leads in the EC, leads in the betting markets – dominating some, and leads in the most reliable polls.
and as of yesterday was behind 0.1% in a multiway race in the popular vote.
Trump defeated Hillary while losing the popular vote by 4pts. Trump came withing 44,000 ballots of winning in 2020 – while Biden won the popular vote by 5%.
Maybe miraculously this year is different – but if it is not – Harris is already toast.
Leftist hypocrisy is far greater than hypocrisy from us mere mortals.
He called for people to be assaulted? And people complied? It didn’t happen on J6. When? The rhetorical exchange originated with JournoLists. The assaults were carried out by BLM, Antifa, FBI, and on Capitol Hill including at least two miscarriages of Capitol punishment.
Would this be a fair summary of Jonathan’s position regarding the Clinton Russiagate hoax?
“Regardless of whether this manufactured hoax had an effect of duping and radicalizing a big chunk of the public, including shaping the public’s leadership preferences, at the most, we should only be able to just complain about it. It would be unjust to challenge it with a lawsuit the same way defamations are allowed to be challenged. Let the public square be filled with consequence-free deceptions for political gain. Power to the most artful, compelling liars.”
If this is a correct summation on the part of one of our top Constitutional experts, we’re in for a very dismal future.
I don’t see how lying to obtain political power is a bit compatible with Madison’s “the consent of the governed”. Free speech cannot be so broadly interpreted as to allow such repugnant, calculating inauthenticity on the part of power-seekers. It leaves “the People” without the tools to uphold the trustworthiness of public speech.
Turley’s notion that we can only whine about inauthentic, manipulative political infowarfare?….yet suing for defamation is perfectly fine?….how does that make sense? It basically says that individuals have rights to counter premeditated duping, but the public doesn’t?
It cost taxpayers $42M dollars investigating HRCs fraud scheme. Isn’t there a law that if you perpetrate a lawsuit or criminal investigation against someone on a fraud and it is exposed as a fraud and frivolous you are personally liable?
“I don’t see how lying to obtain political power is a bit compatible with Madison’s “the consent of the governed”. Free speech cannot be so broadly interpreted as to allow such repugnant, calculating inauthenticity on the part of power-seekers. It leaves “the People” without the tools to uphold the trustworthiness of public speech.”
And yet our founders would disagree with you. The political lies spread by the Jefferson and Adams campaigns were atleast as bad as anything we see today.
Adams deserves incredible respect as one of our founders – yet as the 2nd president he signed laws going after political enemies for their speech and jailed them for it – something we have not repeated until now.
Yesm the constitution and free speech can be understood to allow people to lie to seek power.
NO it does NOT leave the people defenseless. The legitimate response to bad speech is MORE speech.
Whitney v. California 274 U.S. 357 (1927)
Justice Brandeis, concurring, joined by Justice Holmes:
“Those who won our independence believed that the final end of the state was to make men free to develop their faculties, and that in its government the deliberative forces should prevail over the arbitrary. They valued liberty both as an end and as a means. They believed liberty to be the secret of happiness and courage to be the secret of liberty. They believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth; that without free speech and assembly discussion would be futile; that with them, discussion affords ordinarily adequate protection against the dissemination of noxious doctrine; that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people; that public discussion is a political duty; and that this should be a fundamental principle of the American government. They recognized the risks to which all human institutions are subject. But they knew that order cannot be secured merely through fear of punishment for its infraction; that it is hazardous to discourage thought, hope and imagination; that fear breeds repression; that repression breeds hate; that hate menaces stable government; that the path of safety lies in the opportunity to discuss freely supposed grievances and proposed remedies; and that the fitting remedy for evil counsels is good ones. Believing in the power of reason as applied through public discussion, they eschewed silence coerced by law—the argument of force in its worst form. Recognizing the occasional tyrannies of governing majorities, they amended the Constitution so that free speech and assembly should be guaranteed.
Fear of serious injury cannot alone justify suppressions of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears. To justify suppression of free speech there must be reasonable ground to fear that serious evil will result if free speech is practiced. There must be reasonable ground to believe that the danger apprehended is imminent. There must be reasonable ground to believe that the evil to be prevented is a serious one. Every denunciation of existing law tends in some measure to increase the probability that there will be violation of it. Condonation of a breach enhances the probability. Expressions of approval add to the probability. Propagation of the criminal state of mind by teaching syndicalism increases it. Advocacy of lawbreaking heightens it still further. But even advocacy of violation, however reprehensible morally, is not a justification for denying free speech where the advocacy falls short of incitement and there is nothing to indicate that the advocacy would be immediately acted on. The wide difference between advocacy and incitement, between preparation and attempt, between assembling and conspiracy, must be borne in mind. In order to support a finding of clear and present danger it must be shown either that immediate serious violence was to be expected or was advocated, or that the past conduct furnished reason to believe that such advocacy was then contemplated. Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence. Only an emergency can justify repression. Such must be the rule if authority is to be reconciled with freedom. Such, in my opinion, is the command of the Constitution . . .
Moreover, even imminent danger cannot justify resort to prohibition of these functions essential to effective democracy, unless the evil apprehended is relatively serious. Prohibition of free speech and assembly is a measure so stringent that it would be inappropriate as the means for averting a relatively trivial harm to society.”
“Believing in the power of reason as applied through public discussion, they eschewed silence coerced by law—the argument of force in its worst form.” We’re not talking about “silencing” opposing views. We’re talking about pushing out a patently false narrative – a manufactured alternative reality — to gain power.
Why do you raise Adam’s clearly unconstitutional Sedition Act? That is using government prosecution, something I have consistently argued is NOT to ever be tolerated in matters of political speech. I’m trying to expand the model of Defamation Law — NOT prosecution, but citizen vs. citizen challenges brought into Civil Court proceedings. Raising Adam’s overreach is erecting a strawman argument.
I haven’t seen anyone argue that Defamation lawsuits are an affront to free speech — not from Jonathan Turley — nor from any commenters here. That means that “free speech” rights legally carry some responsibilities for authenticity. This is an entirely reasonable position, so long as “authenticity” is accorded a wide berth to include forms of satire, humor, parody, and only ropes off the cold, calculated, premeditated campaign to dupe the public — the Hunter laptop coverup using CIA expertise and engaging widespread media synchronization.
To me, that should have been grounds for a lawsuit in its earliest days, to employ the force of compelled deposition to expose the main players of the scam (Biden, Blinken, Morrell) in just a few critical days — rather than it waiting to be exposed until AFTER the election went to Biden.
If the antidote to bad info is good info, what about the delayed timing involved in getting the truth exposed?
Infowarriors know all about lead time advantage, advantages of dramatic simplicity, and crafting a fraud onto
a welcoming bias in the listener. This stuff is taught at Langley and Quantico — why do you think Blinken turned to Mike Morrell for help? Those with PsyOps infowarfare skills quietly laugh at the naivite expressed in
“the antidote to bad info is good info” — they hope the slower-witted will cling to this piece of sloppy, idealist oversimplification as long as possible before wising up to reality.
Deceptive political infowarfare is not an example of “reason” being brought to bear — it is pure manipulation.
Inauthenticity is the opposite of virtue. If that virtue is not upheld, the moral fabric of a free society will slowly unravel until authoritarianism is the only remaining alternative to hedonistic anarchy.
The result of letting those kinds of manipulation go unchallenged (except for whining about it) is increased radicalization and zealotry — a departure from dispassionate reasoning. I know, these are hard matters to deal with, but if we just give in to a future of the public square becoming a battlefield of competing mendacities, we will have not “kept” the Republic of meritocratic virtues for our posterity.
And, where in the Federalist Papers is there an argument for “the constitution and free speech can be understood to allow people to lie to seek power”??? (It does however mention Office of Trust.)
MORE TORT!!
“ Fear of serious injury cannot alone justify suppressions of free speech and assembly.”
The government can impose certain restrictions on free speech, such as limitations on the time, place, and manner of expression. It’s important to remember that the right to free speech is not unlimited. Inciting, encouraging, or promoting violence against others is not protected under the First Amendment. Turley often overlooks this fact when defending individuals like Elon Musk or Trump and their representatives.
“ There must be reasonable ground to believe that the evil to be prevented is a serious one.”
Trump and his supporters frequently use language that implies or suggests violence, creating a dangerous environment. Trump loves to incite by hinting that violence would be acceptable if someone else acts on it, allowing him to avoid responsibility for planting the idea in the first place.
Svelaz,
Thank you for repeatedly ggiving me the opportunity to post this.
“Muslims in this country are an existential threat to our Democracy and way of life”
“It’s on us to recognize the threat Muslims pose.”
“Does one of us [he and Omar] have to come out alive?”
“Muslims are a genuine threat to this nation …They are literally a threat to everything America stands for”
“Omar and the Muslims represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic … and that is a threat to this country.”
And here’s what should be your favorite
“Muslims are destructive to our democracy and …They have to be eliminated”
Obviously, these were not statements made by Ted Cruz. And they weren’t about Muslims. Maybe you’d like a shot at assigning the origination? Pro tip, some of them have been repeated over and over by several democrats.
Or maybe you like Rick Wilson’s honesty better “They’re still going to have to go out and put a bullet in Donald Trump.”
Oh, Trump most certainly is dangerous – to her and her globalist cohort. That she presumes to impose that on the rest of us is perfectly in line with who she is and what, and who she represents.
That woman is straight up poison, and the Clinton/Soros alliance is a HUGE part of how we got here – it has metastasized like a cancer over decades, having been accelerated with the introduction of Obama. Madness, and she can eff right off.
Hear hear! Be careful answering the door from hereon.
“just as Muller indicted a lot of Russians who were engaged in direct election interference and boosting Trump back in 2016”
Oh the irony, considering the disinformation initiated by her and her minions about the dossier. Is she suggesting that she intends to surrender for arrest for her role?
Muller did not convict a single Russian of election interferance. In fact his cases were so weak that he Withdrew them when the judge asked for the minimal evidence necescary to seek a trial.
John Say,
“To make her argument against free speech, she invokes the Russiagate scam that itself was the product of her campaign’s own propaganda. Speaking of which, the case that she invokes here — Mueller charging some Russians for social media activity — led to Mueller dropping the case after the Russian company showed up to fight the case in court.”
–Aaron Mate
https://x.com/aaronjmate/status/1835886288995586318
The coastal, globalist Illuminati want to control the narrative and to suppress dissenting voices. To hell with them and their thought police.
* Even if the candidates took an oath to tell the truth during their campaign and suffer a penalty of perjury if breached they’d have minions lie for them.
Yes, there should be consequences. Evidence of what they’ve done can be used as reason for supporting a vote. Harris when asked about the economy simply deflected by giving a recount of her childhood during the debate. She refused to lie and could have simply said , no comment.
Overall yes, as in Georgia Santos, all should be held accountable. Hillary thinks she’s an actress playing a role in a movie. She understands she’s discredited and so should everyone bothering to listen.
You’ve wasted espace on her, professor.
“WASHINGTON, D.C. — In an interview with Rachel Maddow, former presidential candidate and email server technician Hillary Clinton called for the imprisonment of anyone who spreads misleading information online and accused the First Amendment of being Russian disinformation.
“The First Amendment is just Russian disinformation created to help crooked Donald Trump win the election,” Clinton told Maddow. “I think it’s clear Trump is in cahoots with the constitutional amendment in his ever growing march to thwart democracy.”
Clinton levied the accusation against the First Amendment after calling for jail time for those she believes spread disinformation online. The former Secretary Of State and Predator drone expert issued the allegation against the First Amendment as part of Democrats’ ongoing efforts to save democracy by suppressing the free speech of the people they disagree with.
“The First Amendment is clearly in the pocket of the Kremlin,” Clinton said. “It’s evident allowing a population to engage in free speech is in direct conflict with our goals as a free nation. By the way, the 2016 election was stolen, I did nothing wrong in Benghazi, and Russiagate was a real thing.”
As of publishing time, Clinton could be seen trying to coerce the First Amendment out onto a paddleboard near her Martha’s Vineyard vacation home.”
https://babylonbee.com/news/hillary-clinton-says-first-amendment-is-russian-disinformation
She should have been convicted of treason for supplying classified information to our adversaries Even if inadvertent it was done willfully. She also destroyed much of the evidence. She is a truly evil person
“So would the “better deterrence” have been for Clinton herself to be arrested?” No. Instead arrest every one of her minions doing her dirty work. Eventually, no one will want to do her bidding; forcing Hagzilla to show the world she’s nothing but a bully herself.
This lady has passed from mere hatred into delusion. She really demonstrates some clear pathology. Really, even the mainstream media should remove this lady from the airways. She spews toxicity and poison. She looks now like what Liz Cheney will look and sound like in 10-20 years.
I have a best friend of nearly 45 years who has been a classical liberal the entire time I have known him but even he could not bring himself to vote for HRC in 2016.
She, in fact, now believes her own propaganda and is totally incapable of dealing with the truth that her minions were the foundation of most of the hate that emanates from the Democratic Party towards DJT. She, of course had some accomplices along the way.
Granted she has had some disappointments. She thought that the Clinton Presidency was a C0-Presidency but failed at that for a variety of reasons. She thought she was equal to Bill as a politician when she was light years away. Seemed almost normal for a Democratic Senator 2000-2008 but then came the Obama steamroller and almost all her minions deserted her for the smooth talker from Chicago. She never got over it. IT was her turn to be president!!!. Then 2016 occurred and her crash and burn campaign crashed and burned primarily because of her Hubris, arrogance. She never understood that failure can teach you if you can deal with the discomfort of a failure.
I really think that the only figure from literature that mimics her is Grendel’s mother. She dragged the dregs of her disappointments back to her cave and has festered there over the rotting corpses occasionally coming forth to spew hate and destruction.
Trump gave opponents nicknames, she gave us the Russia, Russia, Russia and an impeachment and still spews vitriol.
She might benefit from some therapy ala Thomas Eagleton. He at least realized his pathology and though it cost him his Vice Presidential candidacy, he recovered from the failure and went on as a US Senator and then college professor. He certainly recovered from the disappointment of failure better than Al Gore, HRC or McCain and Romney and stayed true to his convictions and not a bitter loser. Considering what Mr Eagleton had to deal with, he led a salutary life. Hilary could learn from him.
That aint no lady, that’s Bill Clintons wife!
This saying is long in the tooth, but still applicable today….”If it weren’t for the ‘double standard’, Democrats would have no standards at all.”
“There is not one member of the military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world for the first time this century.” Kamala Harris
Crickets…
Where were the debate “fact checkers?”
Ask the Marines, Army troops, Special Forces and sailors in active combat zones in Syria, Iraq, Red Sea and around the world in undisclosed locations what they have to say.
E.M.
You dont get hazardous duty pay for not being in a combat zone.
This hubris, besotted, self satisfied, self aggrandizing, sack of moral and ethical turpitude, her minions, and others of her ilk, are only as relevant as the like media which give them a platform upon which to vomit their bilge.
Hillary, in my opinion, an inveterate liar and seemingly sadistic megalomaniac… And just to remind, she lost the ’08 nomination to Obama following reports of campaign contributions from the Chinese. What of her Skolkovo, the supposed Russian Silicon Valley? Or the sale of Uranium One with State approval following alleged Russian campaign contributions? What of Haiti? Or any of myriad of scandalous incidents entirely generated by her since Old Willy’s election in ’93? And in the 2016 campaign? I knew, the very moment she mentioned Russia, which she did on at least two occasions, that she had likely once again conspired with the Russians. “Russia Russia Russia!” And was I right? What’s amazing to me though is that legacy media continues to parade her as pundit in spite of her truly abhorrent public image and obvious proclivity for plunder via the political underworld.
“Here is Hillary Clinton, calling for civil and criminal penalties for speech she disagrees with.
But why stop at jailing your opponents?
Hillary is calling for censorship, but she’s really calling for violence.
Reject censorship. Reject violence.”
— JD Vance
https://x.com/JDVance/status/1836019100868305152
Indeed JD says lots of things. For instance, JD said…
“Look, we can disagree with one another, we can debate one another, but we cannot tell the American people that one candidate is a fascist and if he’s elected it is going to be the end of American democracy.”
But I guess trump wasn’t listening…
In fact, Trump called Harris a fascist at least twice last week alone.
“She’s a Marxist, communist, fascist, socialist,” Trump said at an Arizona rally on Thursday.
JD, Hypocrite much?
Not only is Harris a communist, multiple sources confirm that she has a preponderant affinity towards the bottle. Which leaves her smashed more often than not.
I dealt with communists in the 70s and 80s, she’s no less than those I interacted with.
She is all of which Trump labeled her and more, that is very descriptive of her ideologies. How exactly is that vitriol? Just look at her policies, her history and her running mate. Americans are seeing it even as she hides from it.
Traveler,
That right there!
The amazing part is how much they are gaslighting, hiding her and all the dupes who just accept it.
Turn about is fair play.
When a political hack like Clinton wants to gaslight their devoted and clueless followers, they choose MSNBC and corrupted “journalists” like Maddow to be their useful idiots.