In prior columns, academic articles, and my book, “The Indispensable Right, I discuss the never-ending litigation targeting Jack Phillips, the Christian baker who declined to make cakes that violated his religious beliefs. Phillips continues to be the subject of continuing lawsuits despite the Supreme Court upholding his right to decline to make expressive products for ceremonies or celebrations that he finds immoral. Now the Colorado Supreme Court has dismissed an action brought by a transgender lawyer against the cake shop and its owner.
Phillips has been the target of an unrelenting litigation campaign for over a decade.
In 2012, Charlie Craig and David Mullins asked Phillips to make a cake for their same-sex marriage. As a devout Christian, Phillips declined. He would sell any pre-made cakes to customers, but said that he could not morally make a cake for same-sex marriages.
That refusal turned Phillips’ tiny bakery into ground zero for the long-standing battle between religious rights and anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Civil Rights Commission found that Phillips must make the cakes under the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA).
The case went all the way to the Supreme Court in what many of us hoped would be a final resolution of this conflict. I had long criticized the framing of the case (and other cases) under the religious clauses as opposed to taking this as a matter of free speech. In the end, the Supreme Court punted in a maddening 2018 decision that technically ruled in favor of Phillips based on a finding that the Commission showed anti-religious bias against Phillips.
As a result, Phillips was thrown back into an endless grind of litigation as activists targeted his bakery for additional challenges by demanding cakes with other messages that Phillips found offensive.
In 2023, the Supreme Court delivered a major victory for free speech in 303 Creative v. Elenis when it ruled that Lorie Smith, a Christian website designer, could refuse service to a same-sex marriage. Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote “the framers designed the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment to protect the ‘freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think.’ … They did so because they saw the freedom of speech ‘both as an end and as a means.’”
The decision was not just a vindication for Smith but Phillips. However, Phillips continued to languish in the Colorado system, spending over a decade in non-stop challenges and lawsuits. Because the Supreme Court could not reach a clear resolution, it left Phillips to the continued pursuit of activists targeting his bakery.
The latest dispute began when Autumn Scardina spoke to the wife of Phillips and requested a pink cake with blue frosting to celebrate her gender transition. When the shop declined, Scardina filed an anti-discrimination claim with the Colorado Civil Rights Division (“the Division”) under section 24-34-306, C.R.S. (2024).
In her complaint, Scardina suggested that this was not a targeting of the famous cake shop but merely an effort to get a birthday cake.
In the complaint, Scardina wrote: “Ms. Scardina repeatedly heard Defendants’ advertisements that they were “happy” to sell birthday cakes to LGBT individuals. Hopeful that these claims were true, on June 26, 2017, Ms. Scardina called Masterpiece Cakeshop from Denver to order a birthday cake for her upcoming birthday.”
The shop said that they could make such a cake. However, “Ms. Scardina then informed Masterpiece Cakeshop that the requested design had personal significance for her because it reflects her status as a transgender female.” When the shop noted that it did not make cakes for gender transitions, Scardina insisted that it was for her birthday.
Having established the basis for the lawsuit, she then filed an administrative action. Eventually, however, she jumped from the administrative process into the courts. That would prove the procedural problem for the Colorado Supreme Court.
Scardina prevailed in the lower courts but the case was dismissed by the Colorado Supreme Court on technical grounds.
Justice Melissa Hart wrote in the Colorado Supreme Court’s majority opinion that
“The underlying constitutional question this case raises has become the focus of intense public debate: How should governments balance the rights of transgender individuals to be free from discrimination in places of public accommodation with the rights of religious business owners when they are operating in the public market? We cannot answer that question.”
The most notable aspect of this opinion is that, after a decade, Phillips is still being dragged through the courts despite the fact that the Supreme Court has recognized his free speech right to decline such contracts.
Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) has defended Phillips and Jake Warner, ADF senior counsel, stated “Enough is enough. Jack has been dragged through courts for over a decade. It’s time to leave him alone.”
It is doubtful that activists will heed that request.
Here is the opinion: Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Scardina
From Wisconsin: could Que-Mala draw a crowd like this?
https://x.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1844451693670670783
I guess JT doesn’t read news much.
He harps and harps about free speech threats.
DJT says revoke CBS license, JT? Silence
DJT says revoke ABC license, JT? Silence
Sure, no big deal when the ex president, possible (Naw, not really possible) future president threatens to revoke a news originations license because they dared to talk to Kamala Harris. They offered him an interview but he is too scared to do the interview.
Oh yea, he said he didn’t want to do the interview because they were going to fact check him. WTF? He doesn’t want to be fact checked?
Come on JT, you are not going to be the next AG, trump will lose the election and you will lose what little decency you have left. Get off your duff and start paying attention what what DJT says.
Oh I forget, when Hunter had home made porn on his laptop JT couldn’t get enough of it.
djt threatens actual harm for people, JT is silent.
I think Hunter actually had uploaded to pornhub videos of himself. I recall he also reportedly had some questionable photos of children in provocative attire shall we say? As the late great Rick James said, Cocaine is one helluva drug! You may need to get some medication to help you with the election results.
And who has Trump actually harmed ?
In Matthew, Christ outlines how God will conduct the final judgement.
Christ who knows what is in peoples hearts and minds, who knows our thoughts and intentions,
Does NOT ask – did you feel for the homeless ? He does not ask did you say that you would help the hungry ?
He does not ask did you vote for policies to benefit prisoners.
Christ asks WHAT DID YOU DO ?
We KNOW what the left FEELS – you emote all over all the time.
Those of you on the left HATE the speech of those you disasgree with.
We KNOW what the left SAYS – you say all the time how offensive you find the speech of those you disagree with.
But most importantly
We KNOW what the left DOES – as you have done it.
When you have power you use that power to punish and silence those who disagree with you.
And THAT is why you are dangerous, and why Turley focuses on what the left SAYS, because the left DOES what they say.
We have 4 years of Trump as president. During that time I do not recall EVER the federal government violating anyone’s free speech rights EXCEPT deep in the bowels of the “deep state” even under Trump there were those with somepower violating the rights of political enemies – and their political enemies included the president – Trump.
Is there a court case challenging the Trump administrations efforts to silence oponents of the Trump administration ?
One ?
There are many during th Biden/Harris administration.
ATS
First – you should pay some attention to what Rep Massey is doing with his J6 investigation.
He has found Fraud and Forgery – including the House impeachment managers offering Forged or fraudulent evidence in the Senate impeachment trial of Trump.
His staff has examined the video of the trial and found that many of the Trump Tweets that were presented as evidence in the trial were either flat out forged, or altered or misrepresented. That tweets from years before were presented as having been made on J6.
Or that Trump remarks were edited to say something different – often the opposite of what Trump actually said.
Most of the examples Massey cited would get an attorney presenting evidence at a trial find, suspended and disbarred.
Yet, this was routinely done by House impeachmnt managers
Beyond the actual impeachment itself – Massey has been goin through the evidence from the Democrat J6 Select committee, fromt he DOD J6 investigation, and to a lessor extent from the IG report on J6 and the J6 investigation that will be out shortly after the election. Massey has less from the IG – because the IG is an ongoing investigation and Horrowitz will not answer many questions. Regardless, it is already self evident that Horrowitzs report is going to be Damning.
What are we finding ? That the J6 committee suborned perjury, an that it violated the law and destroyed exculpatory evidence.
The DC NG was waiting in Busses at the DC Armory on J6 from 7AM onward. WHY ? Because days earlier Trump had Ordered them to be ready to go to he capitol the instant that the House Sargent of Arms requested them. Note ORDERED. the JCS recorded that ORDER, the DOD Recorded that ORDER. Trump’s order to have the DC NG prepared to go to the capital was recorded repeatedly in every step going down the chain of command right to Gen Walker at the DC NG. The DOD found, the J6 Committe Found and then lied and burried, that there was absolutely nothing else that any president could have done to get the Natrional Guard to the capitol on J6.
So Why werent the NG at the capitol ? Because Speaker Pelosi contacted DOD (illegally) prior to J6 and told them she was concerned about the Optics of the NG at the capitol. She also – again illegally discussed with them and directed them to take steps to preclude a Trump coup.
There was absolutely no attempted Trump coup. But more importantly the speaker of the House has absolutely no constitutional power to direct anyone in the military to do anything. She can haul members o the executive in front of House committees and ask them questions and demand information and plans. But Congress can not direct the military – except by passing laws, and even then only consistent with the constitution. Pelosi herself was violating the law, the constitution and doing the same things that someone trying to stage an actual coup would do.
Regardless, she had successfully “primed” the DOD into beleiving that under no circumstances was the DC NG to show up at the capitol on J6.
And many in DOD despite presidential orders to the contrary took that seriously. In their testimony – even those who ultimately Followed Trump’s order did so after pondering Pelosi’s remarks and parroting her arguments.
When the request from The House Sargent at Arms finally came to DOD – the Actual Sargent at Arms had been BEGGING Pelosi’s office for the DC NG for more than 2hrs before a request actually went to DOD. DOD Logged that request at 2:55 I beleive – regardless there is a record.
It took only a few minutes for that order to be passed down the chain of command to a US Army Majro General who then Sat on th order for nearly 2 hours, Allegedly preparing Op Plans that there is no record existed, and which the DC NG already had in place – it is not the first tim the DC NG has gone to the capital and far far far fromt he first time the DC NG had planned for going tot he capital. Gen Walker had reviewed prior plans and issed orders regarding the plan for the NG to deploy to the capital days before. No new Plan, no new orders were needed,
Regardless said Maj. General delayed the NG almost 2 additional hours.
In total the DC NG was not at the capitol first thing in the morning – because of Pelosi.
The DC NG was not at the capitol withing minutes of the request for assistance from Sargent at Arms Sund – because of Pelosi who delayed for 2hrs.
Finally the DC NG was not at the capitol for two MORE hours once the request was received by DOW for another two hours – Because Pelosi had primed the DOD to delay do to “optics”
By the time the DC NG arrived – J6 was over.
You will note nowhere in all of the above is Trump mentioned – except for his initial orders days earlier.
There is a separate false story that was sold to all of us regarding What Trump actually was doing at the time and what he actually said and to whom. But covering that is another long story – I would refer you to the testimony – most of which comes from Pelosi’s J6 committee, or the IG or the DOD, and most of which has been burried for the last 4 years.
But the Point of the above is that whenever someone says Trump said …. or Trump did …. especially when that comes from democrats or the media, it is nearly always:
A lie,
deceptively edited,
misrepresented,
Manufactured,
Out of context,
About something entirely different.
And you wonder why neither Turley nor the rest of us care that YOU say Trump said “……” ?
People just do not beleive you anymore. In the unlikely event that you have correctly stated actual words that Trump said – they are with near certainty out of context. And even if by some miracle you get past that threshold – when Trump had the oportunity to Act in volation of the first amendment, he MIGHT have ranted and raved, but he did NOT act.
Mostly the current administration does not “rant and Rave” as Trump often does – though there is a great deal of ranting and raving.
What they do do is ACT.
And that is why Turley constantly reports on what the left SAYS, because unlike Trump – when the left SAYS they will violate the constitution, they actually DO IT.
“Mr. [Trump], tear down this wall!”
– Ronald Reagan
““Mr. [Trump], tear down this wall!”
– Ronald Reagan”
America: Elect Me and Tim and we will build you Trump’s Wall greater than the Great Wall of Tim’s China
– Kamala Harris
Why is it that the rabid commie Democrats applaud their New Hitler Youth Movement and the Anti-Semitic Socialist Sisterhood defending and advancing the defense and interests of the theocratic Islamic terrorists in Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, etc? The ones claiming the Quran and their religious beliefs in Mohammad tells them that the Alphabet Sex Pride Tribe must be airmailed one way from rooftops or hung from construction cranes in the cities?
The Soviet Democrats that defend and make excuses for that murderous theocracy and pre-Medieval religion and religious tract that has no equivalent of a New Testament or a reformation – while they howl like rabid hyenas for the blood of observant devout Christians in America who refuse to artistically celebrate and support Alphabet Sex Pride Tribe sexual beliefs and relationships?
Same as American justice? One standard for those they see as being on their side – the complete opposite for anyone who opposes them and theirs?
Any rational, normal coherent explanation to justify those opposing views? Intersectionality again? Or something else other than blatant hypocrisy and a complete lack of ANY standards?
Evangelical Christianity is rife with racism, hemophilia and misogyny. This isn’t news.
**homophobia
Idiot rife with stupidity ^^^
LGBTQRXYZ rife with sexual depravity.
Racism, homophobia, misogyny, misandry, etc., are all freedom of opinion, choice, discretion, discernment, discrimination, etc., which are all constitutional under the freedom of speech.
Government has no enumerated or inherent power to mandate, order, or regulate opinion, choice, discretion, discernment, discrimination, etc.
If a person may not hold an opinion, a person may not enjoy the freedoms of speech, press, religion, etc., and “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
Keep women affordable, available, reusable, and taxable, and the “burden” of evidence sequestered in sanctuary States. Diversity (i.e. color judgment, class bigotry) is ancient dogma celebrated in progressive sects, also human rites performed for climate progress, and other wicked solutions.
Hemophilia is a genetic disease that reduces your bloods ability to clot.
So ? Islam is also. Every religion has this. Atheists have this.
There are lots of problems with Religion. But History has taught us that as much evil as has been done in the name of God, hat does not compare to that which was done without God.
The FACT is that many men who will seek power and when they get it will do reprehensible things.
They will seek whatever power there is – government power, religious power, any power over others.
As Madison noted –
“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controuls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to controul the governed; and in the next place, oblige it to controul itself. A dependence on the people is no doubt the primary controul on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.”
Men are not angels – not religious leaders, not those in government.
So what? So is judaism, islam, marxism, the dnc, and everyone else. That is why the left selectively attacks/enforces that kind of attitude.
Go rot, child
<>
How Christian of you. And by “how Christian of you” I do mean that your attitude is exactly what we expect from Christians.
Democrats were racists, homophobes, and wife beaters long before Joe Biden, Joy Reid, and Doug Emhoff were part of politics and political news and doing the same.
They all profess to be religious – but not Evangelical Christians. That also isn’t news.
“[Private property is] that dominion which one man claims and exercises over the external things of the world, in exclusion of every other individual.”
– James Madison
____________________
5th Amendment
No person shall be…deprived of…property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Freedom of Speech is absolute.
The Freedom of Religion is absolute.
The Right to Private Property is self-qualified, allowing no further qualification, the overriding fundamental law in the Phillips bakery case, and absolute.
Phillips should file a countersuit for deliberate harassment with malice by frivolous litigation and lawfare, including illicit and unconstitutional claims.
The Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) assumes dominion over private property by Colorado, denies Phillips his constitutional right to private property, and is unconstitutional.
The owner of private property is the sole entity with the power to “claim and exercise” dominion.
A baker has sole dominion over his bakery; no legislation that denies the baker his right to private property and full and complete dominion over his bakery is constitutional.
Constitutional rights and freedoms may not be denied by the legislation of any level of government.
Congress has the power to “take” private property for public use with just compensation.
The judicial branch is not the legislative branch and has no power to modify, modify by “interpretation,” or amend legislation or the Constitution.
The judicial branch may remand the 5th Amendment to the Constitution to Congress.
The Constitution may be amended only by Congress and the States.
The Constitution was adopted to provide maximal freedom to individuals and severely limit and restrict government by its letter and spirit.
The singular American failure is the biased, partial, and arbitrary judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court.
This case is a mess – and it is clear the plantiffs sought to manufacture a problem.
While the courts should have tossed this, I would also suggest that Master Cake had the means to resolve this – all they needed to do was to make a Birthday cake with absolutely no reference to anything LGBTQ. Instead of saying NO to the cake they should have said NO to specific messages.
John Say: You’re so wishy washy on the personal liberty issue. Want anything for sale on the shelf? Sure! Want something custom? Work for hire, essentially a contract. Either party may choose to engage or not for ANY reason.
Didn’t we have a war 160 years ago that was, in part, about compelled labor? Do you want to fight that one again? I know right from wrong. You, I’m not so sure!
Tranny lawyer is the bad guy here.
OF – not wishy washy at all. Just choosy about what Battles I fight.
The Plantiffs in this case were obviously trying to entrap Phillips.
They used the Birthday as a ruse to try to either get MC to violate his principles, or to get him to say NO in a context that appeared to be discriminating against people – not ideas.
So Don’t play the game. Phillips alleges to be a creative person – make a birthday cake for a TG person that celebrates their Birthday.
It is precisely what Phillips has argued for in all his cases.
I would further note there are dozens of ways to deal with this besides that.
I am perfectly fine with screwing up the order and then giving the plantif a refund.
They wanted a pink and blue cake – so presume it is a sex reveal cake for an unborn infant.
When the plantiffs pick it up say “I assumed because you wanted Pink and Blue” that is what you wanted.
One of the huge problems with these stupid public accomodations laws is that the Only way that you can actually get prosecuted for violating them is if you are stupid.
In the US you can discriminate against anyone for any reason or no reason at all EXCEPT for specific prohibited reasons.
So do not play the game.
I ferverently oppose all this idiotic nonsense. These laws have ALWAYS been stupid – whether it is Jim Crow FORCING discrimination or left wing nuts trying to FORCE people not to discriminate.
There are occasions to Stand Up to evil – to Die on this hill. And there are times to go arround the Hill and leave the nut jons stranded on their own.
Master Cake has made themselves famous/infamous on this issue.
Just deliberately botch the cake order, apologize and give the plantiffs a refund.
You don’t negotiate with terrorists, and these addled homos are terrorizing this business because of their bigotry – F them.
I am OK with not negotiating – did I say Phillips should negotiate ?
I am OK with F#$K them – did I say otherwise ?
But there are many ways to defeat terrorists – you do not Always have to go straight to courts and War.
The plantiffs engaged in a ruse, Buy into the ruse. Make a birthday cake, not a Gender reveal cake.
If it is the wrong cake for the party – that is the Planitffs problem.
Phillips claims to be an artist – if you are an artist YOU control your message.
If your client does not like the result – that is their problem.
You do not have to fight with them.
All you have to do is produce a result that does not violate your principles.
If the devious client likes it – Fine.
If not – give them a refund.
BTW I am offering ONE way to go forward – there are Many.
I do not care if MC thoroughly botches the cake.
What is the plantiff going to do ? Sue him ?
Businesses accidentally piss off customers so they do not come back all the time.
It should be really easy to drive away a customer that is deliberately trying to set you up.
John Say, stop it already. The guy TARGETED this bakery, the guy should be made to pay his court costs due to obviously knowing the result would go against him and his lawyer should be disbarred. You cannot be sued in such bad faith.
The problem is that once this bakery deflects these a’holes, there will be other businesses and other a’holes.
The time to stand up is always when you can, and the baker is doing that.
I own multiple small businesses.
They are about Business.
There are lots of a’holes
I have actually stood on principles several times. The good news is I did not end up in jail.
I even won every time – if you accept wasting enormous amounts of time an money to secure a mostly phyric victory winning.
I have lost a great deal of money winning.
I have lost a great deal of valuable time in my life I will never get back winning.
Real meaningful victories in court that you go home and celebrate are few and far between.
In the real world – most of the a’holes can be ignored. There is no issue of principle, and standing up to them is costly and comes with no benefit.
Once in a while there is a real issue of principle or there is an a’hole that will be trouble if no dealt with.
Salt their cake, smile, apologize for the mistake, and give them a refund.
The worst result is a bad review in Yelp.
But they are not going to come back.
You have proven that you can protect your liberty and principles, without the risks of a court battle.
Think of it as a type of boycott against a’holes.
Paraphrasing Paul Simon – “there must be 50 ways to leave your a’hole”.
Masterpiece was willing to sell a cake, but the customer insisted on a specific message.
OT, I made a comment about how Democrats in MSM will make more and more wild claims as election day gets closer.
I was right.
Dem Strategist Claims Trump Vowed To EXTERMINATE People With Eugenics
https://modernity.news/2024/10/10/deranged-dem-strategist-claims-trump-vowed-to-exterminate-people-with-eugenics/
@Upstate
Oh, I have no doubt they will make dirty tricks of the past look like child’s play in November; thus far it has just been the preamble. No one who is actually awake has any reason to support the DNC/globalists if they believe in personal autonomy/actual freedom. The sad fact is, a great many under 35 don’t. They have no comprehension. None, because they were born in and raised in the most peaceful times the Western world has ever known, and they weren’t educated. They don’t even know what that means. Every night, I say, heaven help us.
Upstate,
not hard to ‘predict’ such a thing
when it happens pretty much EVERY election cycle.
Wow, you’ve proved that Harris and everyone voting for her believes this.
The CORE problem has little to do with religion or LGBT .
The CORE problem is that Public accommodation laws are unconstitutional.
Whether we like it or not – people – including Businesses have the RIGHT to discriminate – or NOT as they choose.
Jim Crow was a an effort to FORCE people to discriminate – because government was unhappy that southern businesses were NOT discriminating sufficiently for their wishes.
Today we have govenrment doing the opposite – FORCING businesses to NOT discriminate for particular reasons.
This is NEVER going to work.
You can not prevent people in business from discriminating. The best you can do is drive them to silence while still discriminating.
Phllips and Master Cake could easily end the lawfare against them by making cakes BADLY for things that offend them.
What is worse is that would satisfy those on the left – so long as they can FORCE others to capitulate they feel they have accomplished their purpose.
If you want to end discrimination of some kind that you do not like, the only way that works is to persuade people it is a bad idea.
That is usually a SLOW process, but the results are permanent.
I would further note that truly free markets – where people CAN discriminate as they please ultimately push on their own to end all discriminate
that is NOT profitable. The discrimination we seek to end – is not profitable, and free markets drive businesses away from it.
I believe Thomas Sowell has made similar points about the market. When pursuing profits most people will prefer self interest to indulging their prejudices.
When a vacuum is created people come to fill the vacuum.
Glad you are familiar with Sowell. He is excellent.
I am Sure Thomas Sowell made similar points.
As did Milton Friedman,
Ronald Coase,
Fredrich Hayek.
Ludwig Mises,
Jean Batiste Say
….
Adam Smith.
I have been quoting Smith several times recently on pretty close to this issue.
“The CORE problem is that Public accommodation laws are unconstitutional.”
– John Say
_____________
Hear, hear!
It’s much bigger than that!
The singular American failure is the biased, partial, and arbitrary judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court, that believes it holds dominion and may dictate; it is wrong.
The entire communist American welfare state is unconstitutional including, but not limited to, admissions affirmative action, grade-inflation affirmative action, employment affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, minimum wage, rent control, social services, forced busing, public housing, utility subsidies, WIC, SNAP, TANF, HAMP, HARP, TARP, NPR, Health and Human Services, Housing and Urban Development, Environmental Protection Agency, Agriculture, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc.
Article 1, Section 8, provides Congress the power to tax for ONLY debt, defense, and “…general (all, the whole) Welfare…,” omitting and, thereby, excluding any power to tax for individual Welfare, specific Welfare, particular Welfare, favor or charity. The same article enumerates and provides Congress the power to regulate ONLY the Value of money, Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian Tribes, and land and naval Forces. Additionally, the 5th Amendment right to private property was initially qualified by the Framers and is, therefore, absolute, allowing no further qualification, and allowing ONLY the owner the power to “claim and exercise” dominion over private property.
Government exists, under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, to provide maximal freedom to individuals while government is severely limited and restricted to facilitating that maximal freedom of individuals through the provision of security and infrastructure.
The Necessary and Proper Clause is nothing more than a perfunctory redundancy for the purposes of clarification—a reinforcement of that which was previously codified—and may not be wielded to amend and impose separate acts that do not represent, but alter the letter and spirit of the Founders and Framers.
The Supreme Court in the Heart of Atlanta Motel v US (1964) held that public accommodation laws are constitutional.
The Supreme Court of 1973 said abortion was a legal federal right until the Constitution caught up with them.
And they were wrong.
John, stop digging already, your “make a bad cake” idea is ridiculous. Your lame brain idea is to have the guy make a cake, labor and ingredients at a cost, and then just not bill the guy. Hey genius, you have hom working and buying goods for nothing. Stop it already. The trans activist is the bad guy here.
Phillips and Master Cake are now known as Bigots throughout the country.
Even the people who are happy for their victory – do not for the most part want to be Phillips.
While I strongly suspect someone is funding Phillips legal fights – and I am happy they are.
Phillips is still the one who is wasting enormous amounts of his time on this.
I would be shocked if the personal cost – just in time that has been lost is not greater than thousands of cakes.
I would further note – you clearly seem to have no idea about business.
I recently ate a thousand dollar fee on a project, because someone else screwed up.
I did not screw up. My client did not screw up.
But the best resolution was to not bill the client, because the project went to h311 through no fault of my own or theirs.
My client knows I did not screw up, and they know I ate my fee.
They would have paid me if I insisted.
But I KNOW they had to eat their fee, and they would be paying me out of pocket.
This was a good client – and they will be back to me – again and again.
But if they had been an a’hole – I still would have eaten my fee.
Sometimes you work for a’holes.
Hopefully not too often.
If this is how Phillips wants to spend his life – that is his choice.
If he wants to be remembered by most people as the bigot who stood on principle – that is his choice.
Maybe there is some issue somewhere I would be willing to take a stand on.
For the most part the times I have in the past and won – were a mistake.
Winning is usually phyric, the cost is high the risks are large, and the reward is non-existant.
Salt the cake
“There must be 50 ways to leave an a’hole”
“WE CAN’T DO OUR JOB” 101
“How should governments balance the rights of transgender individuals to be free from discrimination in places of public accommodation with the rights of religious business owners when they are operating in the public market? We cannot answer that question.” COLORADO SUPREME COURT
It’s astounding isn’t it. The we don’t know we can’t do our job answers. It’s your freaking job to do so. I see JT has mentioned the “punting” by the SCOTUS in 2018, like hundreds of courts have been punting the stolen 2020 election with “no standing” punts.
It’s an obvious conflict of interest, as it grows the courts and lawyer ranks with many further attempts and grey areas to be attacked over and over again, thus the punt is a big thumbs up to more power and busy work that gets paid handsomely across the board, in other words, it is a huge moral weakness, a weakness of the mind, and a greedy self serving personal and professional booster.
“WHY THANK YOU COLORADO SUPREMES !” CHA CHING CHA CHING !
It is also obviously COWARDICE – if no real conclusion under law settles the matter, the safety of the justices is much more assured, they won’t get nasty emails or protests from either side, they will get more beggings and pleadings and persuasive speech from the governed.
What a SHAME. “We can’t do our job , but we did a job, a half hearted self serving money making cowardly PUNT !”
So here we are, the inevitable culmination of this process:
First it was “please tolerate us” – which people were mostly doing anyway because it wasn’t being shoved in their faces and their kids faces at the time.
Then it was “please accept us as equals” – which was already happening as society and some churches were changing.
Then it was “please join us in celebrating our sexual lifestyles in public displays”. So we got to pay for Pride Marches and Pride sidewalks, murals, flags (including in Afghanistan).
And now it’s “You BETTER do what you’re told and help us advance our sexual preferences and sexualize your kiddies or we will destroy you”.
That’s how tolerance works!
Old Airborne Dog,
Yes! That is a good summary of it. I would add, “If you dont wear this pin/sticker/flag/etc. you are a (whatever)phobe!!!!!!
…and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
let them eat cake marie a.
I prefer: let us not unto temptation, but deliver us from evil…as I don’t believe the host of hosts would lead his followers into temptation, unless of course you’re Job.
His goodness and blessings shall follow me all the days of my life.
Ever totalitarian, the Left seeks to turn artists into slaves.
I noticed that they didn’t target a conservative Muslim woman web designer to force her to design a brothel’s website in Nevada, where prostitution is legal. They haven’t tried to force a Muslim owned bakery into baking cakes to celebrate gay weddings or gender transitions.
After decades of rhetoric that Christians are dangerous, would turn women into Handmaids, and a threat to America, activists show they aren’t frightened at all of Christians. They will harass, bully, seek to drive into poverty, and abuse the legal system to target Christians, without concern.
Can a conservative activist force a Liberal bakery to bake a cake that states Kamala Harris is a moron, and Trump is the best ever, on a cake, or else lose his business?
A bakery selling ready made cakes to the general public meets the standard of non discrimination. No one should be able to force an artist, photographer, or baker to custom make a creation against his or her will.
It would be like telling an 18 year old photographer, just getting started out of high school, that she’d better go photograph a porn scene for an adult film star, or else she’d be driven out of business, impoverished, hopelessly in debt to lawyers, and ruined.
The Left is an intolerant movement. They punish anyone who has a different opinion. They will try to make people homeless if they don’t agree with them.
@Karen
It is exactly that, and just 10 years ago, it would have been unthinkable, hopefully for some it still is. On one point, I disagree: the modern left is not an intolerant movement – it is a regime that is part of a larger regime. To my mind, if we do not defeat them rather conclusively at the polls this year, the polls will cease to matter *at all* in the future.
Karen S: you again? Since when is decorating a cake by a baker that has a cake-selling business open for business to the general public a matter of religious expression or speech? You, Karen S., as a devoted MAGA, have it exactly backwards. Colorado law prohibits businesses open to the public from engaging in discrimination. This baker was engaging in discrimination by trying to force his belief that marriage equality is wrong by refusing the simple service of selling a decorated wedding cake to a same-sex couple. The one starting trouble and engaging in discrimination was the baker–not the customer, and why should any gay, lesbian, Muslim or other non-white Christian, non-straight person tolerate being the object of discrimination when the State of Colorado prohibits discrimination against LGBTQ people? You speak of intolerance–it is Christian nationalists who are intolerant–they believe they have the right to dictate that only marriages of which they approve can get a custom made cake from them, to dictate that a woman who is pregnant and does not want to be–whether it is because she was raped, the victim of incest or failed contraceptive–or any other reason–must carry that unwanted pregnancy to term. Christian nationalists believe they can force their religion down the throats of everyone else. So, if a Christian nationalist does not want to provide services to the general public, they should go into some business that does not hold itself out as providing service to the general public.
Gigi
A response to your convoluted meanderings would be lost on you
I do congratulate you though not one mention of President Trump. The next President of the United States of America.
“Since when is decorating a cake by a baker that has a cake-selling business open for business to the general public a matter of religious expression or speech? ”
Since the potential customer insisted that Phillips violate his beleifs.
That is not new.
Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for refusing to violate her beliefs.
Galleleo was brought before religious tribunals for refusing to violate his beleifs.
There are bazillions of other examples. People frequently die rather tha violate their beleifs.
“Colorado law prohibits businesses open to the public from engaging in discrimination.”
False. Colorado law CAN NOT bar descrimination – that is just ludicrously stupid.
ALL Choice is discrimination.
Colorado law bars SPECIFIC forms of Discrimination – in violation of the first amendment.
I know this is difficult for you left wing nuts – but laws that infringe on individual liberties are often immoral and frequently unconstitutional.
The actual default in the US is Liberty.
Absent a compelling case that the acts you seek to bar constitute REAL tangible harm – destruction o property, physical injury or death,
then they infringe on individual liberty and are barred – both constitutionally, morally and practically.
Practically, because it i not actually possible to “prohibit discrimination”.
Lets presume that instead of saying NO to people who ask him to violate his religious principles – Phillips takes the order and delivers a Cake that HE finds acceptable. What are you going to do ? Sue him ?
Phillips has decided that h is prepared to take this matter to the courts – just as those left wing nut idiots that are trying to entrap him.
But he need not do that. Paraphrasing Paul Simon – there must be 50 ways to not make a Trans Cake.
Just skip out the back jack
Make a new Plan Stan.
Accidentally switching salt for Sugar seems pretty good to me.
Or someone could accidentally drop the cake when the customer comes to pick it up.
The FACT is that as the courts have ruled many times – you can not COMPEL speech.
It is also a FACT that it is virtually impossible to COMPEL action.
“This baker was engaging in discrimination”
Correct – Discrimination is CHOICE – Phillips made a CHOICE. Not to provide cakes with creative messages that violated his principles.
“trying to force his belief that marriage equality is wrong”
FALSE – Phillips was up front. The only people trying to FORCE anything on anyone were the plantiffs and government.
You left wing nuts get this nonsense wrong all the time.
When you make a law YOU are using FORCE.
A person acting on their own in the free market chosing NOT to transact is NOT using FORCE.
“by refusing the simple service of selling a decorated wedding cake to a same-sex couple.”
While SCOTUS has improperly ruled otherwise the FACT is that the first amendment, and more importantly the social contract, and the limits of legitmate govenrment allow and MUST allow any of us to refuse to participate in specific market transactions for ANY REASON AT ALL – or NONE.
The LAW for the most part actually respects that right.
You ARE lawfully allowed to refuse to transact FOR ANY REASON AT ALL – except a very limited number of reasons that govenrment has specified and slowly tries to grow,
“The one starting trouble and engaging in discrimination was the baker–not the customer, and why should any gay, lesbian, Muslim or other non-white Christian, non-straight person tolerate being the object of discrimination when the State of Colorado prohibits discrimination against LGBTQ people? ”
So many problems.
Yes Phillips was engaged in discrimination – discrimination is just a synonym for Choice. Everyone engages in discrimination all the time.
But it is still the plantif starting the trouble – the plantif sought to use the FORCE of Government to FORCE Phillips to violate his beleifs.
If you do not like Phillips values – do not do business with him. Make your own cake, find another baker.
In EVER SINGLE free market transaction – the buyer MUST always be allowed to say NO, for any reason or none at all, as MUST the sellor.
Otherwise it is not a free market.
And that is actually very important. Market transactions are much more than exchanges of goods and services, they are communications of information.
When Phillips says NO to a cake – a message is sent to the market that there is a need for bakers that will Say YES.
Multiply this by a trillion and extend beyond LGBTQ issues to ALL human values and what you have is the largest computer system possible to ever develop whose purpose is to match peoples wants and needs with what is produced.
As Nobel LAureate Ronald Coase demonstrated – with strong property rights and minimal friction this solves every problem in the world to the best of our ability to solve that problem at a given time balancing ALL our wants and needs and ALL there sources available to meet them.
“You speak of intolerance–it is Christian nationalists who are intolerant–they believe they have the right to dictate that only marriages of which they approve can get a custom made cake from them, to dictate that a woman who is pregnant and does not want to be–whether it is because she was raped, the victim of incest or failed contraceptive–or any other reason–must carry that unwanted pregnancy to term. Christian nationalists believe they can force their religion down the throats of everyone else. So, if a Christian nationalist does not want to provide services to the general public, they should go into some business that does not hold itself out as providing service to the general public.”
Gigi – you have the most bizare defintion of FORCE.
Did Phillips put a gin to anyone’s head ? Did Phillips seek to use Government aka FORCE against anyone ? Did he seek to Jail anyone ?
Then Phillips did not use FORCE.
The Plantiffs in this case went to govenrment and sought to use FORCE aka Government against Phillips – not the other way arround.
The excercise of Govenrment power is ALWAYS either FORCE or threat of FORCE.
We DO FORCE people who murder others to go to Jail.
WE Do use the FORCE of Government against Paedophiles.
There are circumstances in Which the USE of FORCE by govenrment is justified. ‘
And there are ones in which it is not.
You wrongly – and intollerantly beleive FORCE can be used to compel someone to violate their religious beleifs.
THAT is actual intolerance.
It was Intolerance to use the FORCE of govenrment against homosexuals.
Just as it is intolerance to use the FORCE of govenrment against people for refusing to violate their religious beleifs.
It is actually Morally WRONG to use FORCE to compel people to do almost anything.
Karen S: you again?
You again Gigi, the Merkin Maiden?
Please God: somebody send her a crate full of batteries to get her vibrator collection going again so she isn’t here taking her spite out on everyone else.
Scardina admitted in the complaint that she requested a “birthday” cake and Masterpiece agreed to bake that cake. She then admitted she was celebrating her transitioning to a female and that is when Masterpiece declined the order. From the complaint:
19. Ms. Scardina then informed Masterpiece Cakeshop that the requested design had personal significance for her because it reflects her status as a transgender female.
20. After Ms. Scardina identified herself as transgender, Masterpiece Cakeshop stated that they did not make cakes for “sex changes.” Ms. Scardina explained to Masterpiece
Cakeshop that the cake was for her birthday celebration and not a “sex change” celebration.
Scardina had a commitment from Masterpiece to make the requested “birthday” cake. Line 20. misrepresents the facts. Masterpiece didn’t decline to bake the cake because she identified as transgender. They declined to bake it be she stated the design of the cake was to reflect that status. Once Scardina found out a “birthday” cake was fine, but a “transgender” celebration design was not, she then tried to walk back the motive to “birthday.”
The complaint repeatedly accuses the bakery as declining to make the “birthday” cake because of Scardina’s transgender status. That is absolutely false. They had agreed to make the “birthday” cake until Scardina admitted the design was to celebrate her status as transgender.
Scardina wanted her cake and eat his business too! Adn for that she failed.
Transgenders (e.g. homosexuals) have equal rights as individuals. However, their sexual disorientation (e.g. couplets) has no redeeming value to either society or humanity. Also, the use of Rainbow rhetoric and symbols in human context is albinophobic, an ancient religion of fear and hate of white persons that is today celebrated in parades and liberal culture. #HateLovesAbortion
The perpetual harassment and added lawfare against those who do not tow the preverbal political line of the Democratic Minions, and their insane interpretations of Natures Law and Mans law are something to behold for the conceit of superiority about Right and Wrong or Truth and Fact. This example highlights’ the zeal to punish refusers while using supposed Truths that are demonstratively Wrong.
Transgenderism is a mental health issue, not a political cause.
Trans individuals have a very high propensity to suicide and cluster-B personality disorders. Transgenders need help and sympathy, but having them twerk their preferences in front of six-year-olds makes as much sense as having a subway schizophrenic running a philosophy department; however, given the sorry state of most campuses, the subway might now be the safer place.
After Justice Kennedy granted gay marriage (without getting any concessions in return, which is why free speech is dying), leftwing activists ginned up transgenderism so they could keep the donations rolling in. Activism is America’s latest smokestack industry. Transgenderism isn’t about mental health, nor is it even about politics. It’s about money.
So far, this has been a great week for precedent. Like there aren’t other cake shops in Colorado? Give me break, I could do a Google or even Maps search and likely find dozens.
My main question is actually why does someone feel they need to virtue signal so hard on a freaking *cake*? Says more about them, frankly.
I used to do a lot of freelance work, and I’m sorry, though I am secular, personally, if someone asked me to make a cake that depicted something I felt opposed my values, I would have said we were a bad match and they should look elsewhere for someone that could better serve them, *out of fairness to the client*. We live in a free society, and that is my *right*. This has been nothing but churlish pettiness, and though it has taken awhile, I’m glad it’s all coming crashing down; this victim/grievance sheet has gotta stop, and people that perpetrate it are flipping children. Grow up, move on.
Life is hard sometimes, Buttercup, and we deal. Try asking a radical cake shop in the Bay area or Portland or Seattle to make you a non-ironic Jesus cake for Easter and see what the response would be. 🙄 Freedom of religion means freedom for *everyone*.
Well there’s the victim mentality of imagining oppression and generating cultural hatred against a make believe oppressor, and then there’s the Marxist agenda of ginning up furor and then fanning the flames once the match has been struck. It is difficult at times to separate the two aspects, however when one’s own government and corporate elitists are the suspects striking the match it becomes far more clear as to exactly which aspect is which.
Generally what you do is legal.
In the 60’s when the Civil rights act was Passed – a Few principled republicans – who had fought for civil rights for decades opposed the Civil Rights act SPECIFICALLY because it unconstitutionally included provisions empowering government to regulate private discrimination.
One of these republicans was Barry Goldwater who was one of the most “progressive” republicans in the Senate through to his retirement decades later.
This single provision of the Civil Rights act – which should have been found unconstituitional 60 years ago spawned “public accomidations” laws.
It is a stupid idea for any business – whether it is one that deal directly with “the public” – such as retail shops or whether it is more like your consultancy to discriminate based on race, sex, orientation or the color of your shirt.
But making such discrimination illegal is a much WORSE idea.
Boycott master Cake if you wish.
But whether sanctioned by the civil rights act or local public accomidation laws – this type of lawfare is immoral and wrong.
And this long series of efforts from the left demonstrates it.
What is sad and hillarious at the same time is that the very people who preach tolarnce to the rest of us are so self evidently intolerant.
If I were to find someone’s sexual activities disgusting, immoral, socially damaging and believe the definition of marriage as that provided in the Bible, should it not be my right to refuse service. This should be the case to anyone I don’t find myself wishing to do business with. If a cartel drug lord wanted a cake and I knew him as such, I would refuse service. If a pornographer and his sex stars wanted a cake, if known to me I would refuse service. I would refuse service on my OWN moral evaluation and personal judgment of that entity whether a Christian, Muslim, agnostic or Jew. Morality is based upon a belief of right or wrong, that historically has come from a religious perspective.
Why would this be any different than no shirt no shoe no service?!
State public accommodation law prohibits refusing service based on certain characteristics (such as race). But where the service involves expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment – such as with specially made cakes with messages or with the 303 Creative web designer – the First Amendment kicks in to protect the speaker from having to speak a message he or she disagrees with. The First Amendment trumps the state public accommodation law.
And such laws ALL should have been declared unconstitutional 60 years ago.
I will support people who wish to boycott 303 Creative or Master Cake.
But those engaged in this lawfare to compel them to violate values that I find offensive is itself immoral.
Forget the LGBT nonsense – at the core you should NEVER be free to FORCE someone (using government) to do what you want, to send YOUR message.
While I would have found the provision of the Civil rights act that allowed government to restrict PRIVATE discrimination unconstitutional to end this.
At the same time as Turley notes these cases all could easily be resolved solely on Free Speech grounds and that would have resulted in a stronger decision.
This conflict is really over COMPELLED speech and COMPELLED speech is nearly always unconstitutional.
You’ve confused your prejudices with religion. And how someone chooses to live their life is not equal to them ignoring hygiene.
You’re confusing pushing Alphabet Sex Pride Tribe with religion. Probably deliberately, just like the gender blenders and Queers For Hamas who cosplay that they have only a single bakery in town to bake them their cake, carter their Alphabet Sex Pride Tribe event. No, they’re SPECIFICALLY targeting businesses owned by observant religious individuals.
Assure everyone that it ISN’T prejudice and selective targeting that observant Muslim owned bakeries, caterers, etc aren’t approached by members of the Alphabet Sex Pride Tribe and gender blenders with demands they make exactly the same cakes, cater the same style of events.
Wouldn’t my prejudices be based upon my perception of right or wrong, which is based upon my perceptions of morality which are based upon my interpretation of my religious beliefs? Sexuality is a chosen preference, it is not a religion, it is not a race, it is a chosen behavior.
“You’ve confused your prejudices with religion.”
Your trying to control other peoples religion.
While Turley is correct the courts should look at this as a free speech issue – especially a compelled speech issue,
Regardless the CORE issue is that YOUR idea of what prejudices others may have can NOT overcome Free speech.
Frankly it can no overcome the liberty of others.
I know this is difficult for you to understand – but people are and MUST be free to beleive things you do not like,
Even to act on those beleifs.
The legitimate role of government is to punish ACTS that ACTUALLY harm other people
If it is not an ACT – it is outside the domain of govenrment.
If there is not ACTUAL harm – it is outside the domain of govenrment.
You are free to argue that I am wrong – but if that were so, then there is no limit to government, to law, and what freedom is left is what those with power will allow.
Further if I am wrong – law becomes as we have seen a weapon to be used against our enemies – rather than against those who are actually dangerous. If you are lucky – You and those who share your views are the ones who get to wield the law as a weapon.
But that is far from certain. I would have hoped that those on the left would have learned from the changes to established norms that they have brought about that ultimately worked against them how dangerous their view of govenrment and laws is and how easily it can be turned against them. I like to use abortion as an example. The left was warning us of the dangers of growing populations all my life.
This resulted in China’s one child policy and 450M forced abortions over the time that policy was in effect. Today China has found it is on the wrong side of a massive demographic problem atleast partly cause by the one child policy and now China is actively encouraging – now against societal resistance having more and more children – in the public interests. That policy change has not YET turned to force – but it likely will. We will go first in China, and then throughout the world from encouraged and then FORCED abortions to encouraged and then FORCED childbirth. Contra the left while abortion is legal in most of the west, it is actually more restricted than in the US – and those restrictions will likely get worse as nations upsidedown demographic problems become worse.
My point is NOT about abortion. It is about freedom. When alleged public interests, when the supposed common good, trump individual freedom, it will be the circumstances of the moment or the trends of the world or the views of alleged experts on those trends and circumstances that will determine what liberty you have.
There is absolutely nothing that says that circumstances, Trends, the common good will align with the interests of those on the left.
In almost half the world RIGHT NOW demographics are upsidedown. That means that the “common good” the “Public interest” favors – and will do so increasingly – MORE procreation – not less.
That means that the entire legal framework of “Public Interest” or Common Good that drives the left is increasingly alligning AGAINST the freedoms that the Left emphasizes today.
The same purported societal principles that the left embraces are or soon will be at odds with homosexuality, abortion rights, gender fluidity – anything that interferes with procreation.
My point is that when you unmoor government from being constrained to dealing with ACTS – particularly acts of violence, that cause actual harm, it is not just the freedoms that those on the right hold dear that are lost, it is ALL freedom.
And how someone chooses to live their life is not equal to them ignoring hygiene.
@Traveler
Though again, I am secular, and I actually do feel your statement delves a little bit into intolerance (just my opinion, though I respect yours), it shouldn’t distract us from the conversation.
I DID, routinely, refuse woke clients who asked me to make white children, in stock photos, ‘brown’ (and they DID) through the non-existent magic of ‘Photoshop’ for projects because they were too white and too insulated from the people where they had migrated, just inter-sate, (it’s why I refer to it as 21st century colonialism, it is real, and it happens) to actually have connections in the communities they purported to be serving and could not stage a simple photoshoot of their own with the real people that actually lived there. This *happens*. In the age of algorithms, forget it.
Make no mistake: this is all very much mainly (sadly) modern, privileged, white liberal (who are they in 2024?) boosheet, particularly among the snowflake, sheltered, I-paid-for-my-degree-which-makes-me-smart-even-if-I-am-intrinsically-dumber-than-a-rock-and-was-just-passed-on-like-in-grade-school-because-I-paid (why is the real world not like grade school? Waah!) laptop/urban class who used to just write crazy blogs but now work at our main institutions of media, often in positions of authority (NYT, LAT, Scientific American, Time, etc.). This cannot be emphasized enough.
It is one side, one very privileged side, and they do NOT believe in personal freedom of any kind, nor do they actually believe in *real* multiculturalism. They ‘believe’ in having someone to mow their lawn they can treat like a pet while they presume to continue to make decisions for the rest of us, other countries and culture are basically a zoo to them, where you observe, but know you are better than the animals. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
It’s ‘soft’ Hitler. They are blind. They are barely carrying human consciousness, at this point. We do not need to be ruled (we don’t need to be ‘ruled’ at all) by the human equivalent pf robots that think their own needs circumvent literally everything else you could imagine for yourself or for others out of kindness and real compassion (which by the way, is a foreign concept to them. They are good at pity; empathy is a mystery to them).
Thank you James. I appreciate your respecting my intolerance. I would simply say that tolerance in our society is an ever moving thing. Social tolerances were typically established by a morally based society. That was traditionally a society based upon Christianity in the United States. That base has been steadily ripped down, attacked and dismissed over the last several generations. That belief in a higher power, whoever you call it is the cosmic glue that holds and binds us together as people and as a Nation. If you were to look back in history to the 1930’s Germany you would see the very same things going on in Berlin with this as we see now. These types of liberal based practices undermine our society and are exactly the things that led to producing someone like Adolf Hitler. I hope you got a chance to find the books I posted regarding Grant and Sherman. There are some open letters from T Sherman to his brother J Sherman that supported what you believed to be BS.
Intolerance is akin to Jefferson’s quote regarding our freedom and liberty, It only takes for good men to remain silent.
@Traveler
Agreed, and that’s the thing about America: we come together as united people in service of a larger vision for all, but based on freedom, not conformity. I honestly think that is too mature a concept for a lot of people to even grasp these days.
I’d be happy to live next door to you and share a human experience no matter what we individually believe or don’t. I wish you well.
Thank you James, a nice compliment.
I found that an interesting comment.
They asked for deception through photoshop, darkening their skin color to show a fit in with those they claimed they wanted to help.
It’s hilarious and so sick.
PR racism.
Deceitful cultural appropriation used as a deceptive power play.
Used to be we had to politely “tolerate” differing points of view in America. After 12 years in court however, we now have to be forced to “embrace” differing points of view. Unbelievable.
@skyraider
No, we don’t, and don’t ever think you do. This is what the recent and somewhat extensive precedent means to me: no matter how insane the hyperbole or out of control things become, we do have recourse, and ultimately, that will prevail. It just might be ugly getting there. Don’t lose heart. That is what they are counting on and I’m not going to give it to them. I hope you don’t, either.
It’s only a matter of time when a MAGA red hat walks in and gets refused service. We’ll see who starts screaming discrimination. Oh yeah, it has happened and the Trump supporter whines and cries how unfair it is. The free market should decide, like the pizza shop who refused service to a gay wedding, and is now out of business.
It’s only a matter of time . . .
And then you say it’s already happened. Which, besides being internally contradictory, kind of proves your opponent’s point because there was not lawsuit.
Also, you start from a false premise: Smith did not refuse anyone service. He offered to sell them a cake, but just not to create a special cake because that would involve him affirmatively expressing a message he disagreed with. The First Amendment protects freedom of speech, which includes the freedom not to speak. If a MAGA supporter walked into a liberal-owned cake shop and asked for a specially made cake that said, “Trump for President,” and the owner refused, that owner would be protected by the First Amendment from legal consequences. The MAGA person would not deny that.
Or can you supply an example involving expressive conduct where the conservative took the shop owner to court? If not, then STFU. If so, then it just proves that plaintiff was wrong too. It doesn’t mean the plaintiff here was right.
OldManFromKS,
Well said and what an impressive way to put Fishstick in his place!
First of all, you using the term “conservative” when a red hat is not a republican or a conservative. I said a “redhat” that’s a whole different type of crazy. And Trump threatens and files lawsuits to any and all who he feels is not fair to him.
And Trump threatens and files lawsuits to any and all who he feels is not fair to him.
BBBBBUUUUTTTTRTT….. MUH TRUMMPPPPP!!!!! BBBBBUUUTTTT… I’M BUTT HURTTTTT!!!! TRRUUUMMMPPPPP!
Every day, all day.
Hell of a way to argue Harris continuing the Biden-Harris administration for another four years is a better voting choice
Your ignorance is showing
Anon redhat
ATS – it does not matter if a “red hat” is actual Nazi’s – they are STILL entitled to the same protection of their rights, their freedom, including the freedom to be wrong,.
It is irrelvant whether you think they are crazy. It is irrelevant whether they ACTUALLY are crazy.
But the FACT is that MAGA is not crazy. There are SOME MAGA policies that are wrong, or overly simplistic. Though overall MAGA, which is just the successor to the Tea Party is one of the most rational political positions in this countries history.
It combines the best of conservatism with some of the best of the democratic party to create a very rational and very successful politics.
I will be happy to debate the errors of MAGA, but nothing that other republican or democratic movements offer comes close to being half as sane.
Does Trump file lawsuits ? Absolutely. For the Tort of Defamation – I am hard pressed to think of anyone who has been defamed more than Trump. Though for the most part he loses these – not because he has not been defamed, but because before he came down the escalator in 2015 he has been a high profile public figure and defamation comes with the turf.
He files lawsuits for breach of contract, and those are decided based on the actual contract, and Trump usually wins.
At the same time both now and Historicially Trump is sued far more than he sues others.
That is true of most high profile people. It is also true of wealthy people. It is also true of controversial people.
What has NOT been true until recently is that he is also faced with Politically driven lawfare by those in Government.
We have had that in US politics on rare occasions – both right and left, and it has always been despicable.
But we have not seen anything this Blatant an abuse of govenrment power since Jefferson went after Aaron Burr litterally directing the AG on a daily basis how to prosecute the case.
Trump is as free to call his treatment “unfair” as anyone else.
The problem for those on the left is that the majority of people agree with him.
Worse still the majority of people accept his premise that the lawfare against him, is Lawfare against them.
That when govenrment can weaponoize against a former president and presidential candidate for political and ideological reasons,
That parents of students in HS, catholics, pro-life protestors, deeply religious cake makers, and the ma n ufacturer of most of the electric cars in the world can also be targets.
OldManFromKS,
Actually we know of a case where a conservative was denied service. Then WH Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked to leave a restaurant. Did she take the restaurant to court? No. She was respectful to the owner, who asked her to leave. And left. Simple as that. That is what sane, normal people do.
And she ran right to FOXNEWS. Like I said, whines and cries.
So now you are attacking her right to free speech? She had a perfect public platform, available to inform others of the business Owners wishes. By the way, whatever happened to that restaurant by the way, The Red Hen wasn’t it?
Traveler,
I read that the owner shut down the restaurant due to loss of business, then re-opened under a different name to try to get business back.
😎
Fish dip is not a deep thinker
“opened under a different name to try to get business back.”
They aren’t very good at promoting themselves. Upstate, do you think they named the new restaurant FishWings?
Mr. Meyer!
More like the Woke Pig in a Poke!
Oh no Fishstick! She has the right to free speech? Or are you saying only you leftists are allowed free speech to whine and cry?
We see you whine and cry here on the good professor’s blog nearly everyday!!! We do not deny you free speech. Just the right to ridicule, mock you!!
How marvelous!!
So ? She is free to run to Fox. You are free to run to MSNBC.
You said “let the free market sort it out” – that is part of the Free Market.
Drive bad publicity, boycotts – absolutely anything that you can PERSUADE others to do voluntarily – No FORCE – aka GOVERNMENT involved.
PETA managed to get McD’s to not only change the way they raised chickens but to ultimately change the way ALL chickens are raised.
I am not a Big PETA fan, but I am 100% OK with that.
I am NOT OK with lawfare. I am NOT OK with violence.
I m perfectly OK with radical left wingnuts persuading businesses or others to do things I think are incredibly stupid.
So long as I an others who share my views are equally free to persuade int eh oposite direction – If we chose.
I think the vast majority of the left choices of left wing nuts are absurd, atleast mildly self destructive and that it is a waste to cater to them. But I have ZERO problems with businesses providing these left wing nuts with the choices they seek – so long as I am equally free to persaude the same or other businesses to cater to my whims.
As Adam Smith noted 250 years ago – appeal to the self interests of others – your Butcher, You Grocer. Tell them if they will makewhat you want you will buy it, and if they do not you will go elsewhere.
THAT is how consumers – who ACTUALLY have the power, control the markets.
Do not wander arround whinning – no one cares about your whining.
Do not go looking to government to FORCE others to cater to your whims – that is immoral.
FishWings, where did you get that information from? I get it. You made it up like you almost always do.
I don’t think Sara Sanders went to Fox News though Fox came to her. How did the story first break out? One of the servers at the Red Hen put it on social media. A leftist, one who objected to her whined and cried.
Why can’t you get the story straight? That reason is why you are found untrustworthy.
If it were a free market we wouldn’t be discussing this Fishdip. The LGBTQXYZ crowd would go find a bakery sympathetic to their debauchery and carry on.
Fishsitck, the free market has clearly displayed it’s decision. Jack Phillips has been under lawfare by leftists since 2012. He is still in business. He has a customer base that supports him despite all the lawfare for years. Now the CO SC has struck down leftists latest attempt at lawfare, Phillips will continue his business, successfully. As he has for the past twelve years.
How marvelous!
+100
It’s only a matter of time when a MAGA red hat walks in and gets refused service.
FishFeces puts his extraordinarily short memory on display yet again. Or he’s lying again, yet again. Or more likely, a combination of both as he hopes the Democrat Memory Hole will work in his favor.
FishFeces cosplays as not only a gender blender, but also as not remembering when Democrat businesses were refusing members of the Trump administration service, refusing Republican politicians service, etc. Throwing them out of restaurants after Democrat politicians called for them to do that, and Democrats spotted them and complained to the businesses.
Did anybody call this viciousness by Democrat business owners part of their religious beliefs as they did this?
Did they claim that the religion of atheism/Marxism had an article of faith that serving Republicans violated?
FishFeces proves that the phrase “Marxist Useful Idiot” is more appropriate today than it was when first coined a century ago.
“Screaming Lil Bow Wow,” what were your MOS, Awards, Campaign, and Theater, or is yours stolen valor “Tampon Tim” style?
Is that you, little Grindr date that learned those words from a Navy wog who bedded you on shore leave?
You have any of that stuff you name to list of your own to accompany your insinuations, Grindr Boy?
Old Airborne Dog,
Great comment.
nice try to make this into a but Trump issue
Absolutely, and we will see boycotts. And business closings.
Nor is it a matter of time – it has happened frequently.
What has NOT happened is political discrimination lawfare from the right.
I agree with you – that the free market should – that free market includes people ranting online about how unfair it is. It includes boycotts.
It does NOT include lawfare. It does NOT include government eforts to censor, or persecute or drive other to censor.
FW I would be 100% with you – If and only If you WERE applying the same standards to the left as the right.
If there is a Pizza shop that is out of business for refusing service to a gay wedding – great, the free market at Work.
Master Cake is still in business. 303 Creative i still in business.
Conversly – Tractor Supply has purged DEI from its business, and publicly promised to stay out of politics and culture wars.
Harbor Freight, Harley Davidson, John Dere and even Ford faced similar backlash and have quietly capitulated and gotten out of politics and devicive political issues. Anheiser Bush and Disney have faced the same backlash. They have tried to ignore that backlash rather than getting out of divisive policies. As a result AHB’s market capitalization – the value of he company is down 25% over 4 months and has stayed down for over a year. There sales are down 21% and unlikely to recover. Disney’s Market Cap is down 50% over 3 years, with a similar decline in sales and revenue.
Free markets work. Ignore them at your peril.
Those on the left should quit looking for shortcuts.
Quit looking to change peoples values by using government, the media, or infiltrating businesses to coerce people into changing their values.
Do the HARD WORK and persuade real people – one at a time. That is how you actually change society.
Not through force or coersion. 3
Oh, you don’t want the free market to decide. The free market decided decades ago, before laws were placed to change what the free market could decide.