We have long discussed the collapse of free speech values in France as the left criminalizes an ever-widening scope of opposing viewpoints. Conservative groups are denouncing a new such case targeting conservative media. CNEWS was fined and forced to apologize on air after a journalist referred to abortion as the world’s leading cause of death.
CNEWS is owned by Catholic businessman Vincent Bolloré. Presenter Aymeric Pourbaix made the statement during a Catholic program called “En quête d’esprit” (or “In Search of Spirit.”) Whatever that search may have found in terms of spirit, it certainly found censorship.
The program showed a graph on the causes of death that put abortion on top, with 73 million deaths each year worldwide. That constitutes 52% of annual deaths, far ahead of cancer (10 million) and smoking (6.2 million).
The French media regulatory authority Arcom imposed a fine of 100,000 euros and compelled CNEWS to apologize on the air. It was the full monty of censorship, combining a penalty with compelled speech. Arcom found that the network had failed its “obligation of honesty and rigor in the presentation and processing of information.” It declared that “Abortion cannot be presented as a cause of death.”
Obviously, many people around the world view abortion as the death of a human being. However, the press and pundits on the left went ballistic at the statement and called for a crackdown by the government. It is now a violation of law to call abortion a cause of death.
Journalists joined the call for censorship and accused the network of publishing biased and dangerous ideas.
The network was beaten into submission and apologized “for the people who may have been hurt by this infographic.”
Barring people from calling abortion a cause of death is only the latest speech crackdown in a nation that prides itself as a cradle of liberty.
France has been a leader in the rollback on free speech in the West with ever widening laws curtailing free speech. These laws criminalize speech under vague standards referring to “inciting” or “intimidating” others based on race or religion. For example, fashion designer John Galliano has been found guilty in a French court on charges of making anti-Semitic comments against at least three people in a Paris bar. At his sentencing, Judge Anne Marie Sauteraud read out a list of the bad words used by Galliano to Geraldine Bloch and Philippe Virgitti, including using ‘dirty whore” in criticism.
In another case, the father of French conservative presidential candidate Marine Le Pen was fined because he had called people from the Roma minority “smelly.” A French teenager was charged for criticizing Islam as a “religion of hate.”
This is a nation that still echoes the cry of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity (“liberté, égalité, fraternité”). However, in today’s France, “liberté” is no longer valued. Individual rights of religion and speech are routinely sacrificed in the name of “equity” and “fraternity.”
In my book The Indispensable Right, I discuss how free speech is in a virtual free fall in Europe. As we face our own growing anti-free speech movement, citizens need to take a long look at countries like France to see what awaits us down this path. Europe went down this slippery slope of censorship decades ago, and the desire to silence others has now become an insatiable appetite.
If we are to protect a right that, more than any other, defines us, we must hold the line against this global movement.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
The only thing that prevented them from going communist in the 1930’s was the Nazi invasion. Not an ideal pedigree for democratic zeal. France has been a political basketcase for about 250 years. It’s their nature, they like it that way.
The French, as demonstrated by their history and current action, are nothing more than sophisticated savages responding to the pleasure of the moment. How better to enhance that pleasure of the moment than to silence the voices of any opposition?
Freedom of speech is absolute.
If rights and freedoms are not absolute, they do not exist.
The United States must compel all nations to secure absolute freedom of speech at all costs.
The end of freedom of speech is the end of freedom.
@George
Yes, it is. It is why we are still free while Western Europe crumbles, and why we have to endure the idiot trolls everyday. 🙄 But I’ll take it over the alternative, nonetheless.
It is not absolute. If you walk into a Court of Law, you cannot say anything you feel, anything you want, anything you believe…you’re sworn to tell the truth. Why?…because justice and fairness require ferreting out intentional deceptions.
When you claim freedom of speech is absolute, please realize you’re ceding to Mike Morrell and the 51 “spies that lie” the unfetterded right to dupe the electorate about Hunter’s laptop.
This leads to the following clear contradiction:
If crooked politicians and their media surrogates are allowed to obtain “the consent of the governed” through trickery and deceit, then Madison’s ideal of how government derives its legitimate power is completely undermined. Therefore, in the run-up to elections, it simply cannot be the case that candidates are free and clear to lie their way into office. There are crafty Dem infowarriors with professional training ready to keep doing the same to get their way.
Unless you are assuming a partisan double-standard working in your favor, absolute free speech applies equally to your enemies and your allies. Or “I’m willing to defend my opposition’s right to compete for political power with falsehoods”.
Upon closer examination, freedom of political speech is NOT absolute, but must be kept in balance with responsibilities to speak with authenticity and trustworthiness in the courtroom — and political public square.
Freedom of speech is absolute and may not be abridged.
Quantifiable defamation and perjury are actionable.
You just cited 2 exceptions. The word “absolute” which means “no exceptions”. Don’t start repurposing the English language’s common meanings like the left does to make arguments. We’re better than that.
Freedom of speech is absolute and may not be abridged.
Quantifiable defamation and perjury are actionable.
The right to keep and bear arms may not be infringed and is absolute.
Firing the arms one may keep and bear to harm another person without justification is actionable.
One must take care when firing one’s arms and mouth.
FINE! In France any public language regarding religion, or wearing symbols of is actionable. Religious organizations are recognized by the government as acceptable. Whatever that means. Religion and speech in public are prohibited. Confine it to your home and church, synogogue, temple or designated building.
Rights and freedoms are not to be abused.
* ^^^ isn’t that what the French government is saying? It’s really quite offensive considering the offensively vulgar Olympics?
Very scary for some conservative environs of France. Catholicism is the national religion. Polytheism appears to be on the table. Poor people…
What about machine guns? RPGs? Again, you’re incorrectly using the term “absolute”. The right to bear arms is generous but qualified (in the interest of public safety). If it were absolute, that would enable tiny wacko militant groups to impose their will on the majority through threat of force….as the cartels do in Mexico and warlords do in Somalia.
Your simplistic definition, which draws the line at “firing a weapon” wouldn’t deter gangs brandishing arms to intimidate and dominate. That shows you haven’t thought through your definition even enough to protect yourself, your family, and other law abiding citizens from organized crime.
“What about machine guns? RPGs? ”
The 2nd Amendment uses the term “arms”, and identifies the possession of “arms” by the People as an unassailable right. At the time, the natural right to individual self-defense was unquestioned; the purpose of including that Amendment was to help prevent any oppressive government from coming to power, and to facilitate the overthrow of it if one did. In that context, the Amendment clearly pertains to whatever weapons would be required to effectively resist such a government. Today, that obviously would extend to fully automatic weapons and self-propelled explosive devices, and far beyond. The fact that you spinelessly quail at such an idea changes nothing. Don’t like it? Initiate the process for an Amendment modifying or revoking the Second A, or to call a Constitutional Convention. Those processes are well documented in the Constitution itself.
“The word ‘absolute’ which means ‘no exceptions’.”
No it doesn’t.
“Absolute” means no exceptions *within a certain context*. As in: Water boils at 212 degrees, given a certain elevation and composition.
You dropped the context of free speech to conclude that it’s not an absolute. That is the camel’s nose under the tent that censors need.
@pbinca
Yes, actually, it is, in America.
* France does not have freedom of religion?
Religion and speech can be coupled and the free exercise of religion. The catholic channel thinks life begins at conception. The comparison to other types of death was included as a comparison of size in number.
Freedom of religion case and its free exercise…
No one can really assign merit or nonmerit to a religion. The conflict arises because of conflict between the State and religion.
The founders protected religion. Did the founders protect the State in this same way? It limited the State and protected religion.
* A Google said in 1905 a secular law was passed and freedom of religion in public places was stifled. The channel being used by the French catholics is public? Is it privately owned? The secular government thinks it’s enforcing the 1905 law?
Requires examination. Apparently France has freedom of speech dictated by its government meaning it has none. The Olympics was quite a show reigniting the ancient pantheon of Greece and Rome. The French government has a religion indeed.
* Google isn’t trustworthy. It gives contradictory answers.
Happy Thanksgiving even if it’s just a bowl of soup and good will.
* Freedom of speech can be like an ICBM. One hopes for common sense, decency, good will and a moral compass when it’s launched, eh?
Happy holydays. 🤔
Says the guy who keeps demanding that others be banned for life.
@George:
“The United States must compel all nations to secure absolute freedom of speech at all costs.”
Yes, we need the USA to tell Communist China to either stop preventing absolute freedom of speech or we will begin nuclear WWIII. All costs means all costs.
During its early stages of development, the placenta of the unborn child secretes neurokinin B-containing phosphocoline molecules, which protects the child from detection by its mother’s immune system, because it can be interpreted as a foreign body and is subject to attack. This is because the fetus is of non-identical genetic material to the mother due to their different DNA.
Also present in the unborn child are lymphocytic suppressor cells which stop interleukin 2 (IL2) cells from signalling cytotoxic T cells to kill the child. The purpose of IL2 cells is to distinguish between self and non-self (parts of the mother and foreign parts). The lymphocytic cells would not need to inhibit the response of the cytotoxic T cells if the IL2 did not signal the feuts as a foreign body. This would not occur if it was one of her own organs because the response would not be initiated.
An organ does not have its own organs. The fetal heartbeat begins at around 22 days after fertilisation as I said earlier, and brain waves are detected at about six weeks, which means the unborn child has a heart and a brain. At seven weeks, all other organs are present, although not fully developed, which would mean not only did the mother have an organ with different DNA to her, but this organ also has its own organ systems, and so the mother has an extra heart, brain, stomach, liver, etc.
The placenta of the nascent human being differentiates itself from its mother by protecting itself from its mother.
Society must protect the embryo, fetus, and baby from its mother.
Interesting
Go and spread the word.
Go and spread the truth.
Abortion is homicide.
There is always an answer.
With reference to prices and wages in a free society of freedom, free enterprise, and free markets, the answer is always competition.
Regarding the prices and wages of intolerable pregnancy, the answer is always adoption.
* For some women these changes with neurotoxin etc take over her entire body. In fact the developing fetus runs the show.
* Pregnancy and labor are extraordinary events. For men to understand imagine a 9 lb watermelon being crushed into your mouth . Your face would be torn off and jaw broken. In which case doctors would just open the belly and put the melon directly into the stomach. After that you just go back to work. No surgery to repair your face at all. Of course the melon gets stuck and your intestine rupture. You’ll be okay.
* There’s some MDs here. How many women worldwide die in childbirth? Can the pelic artery rupture? Death in how many minutes? For each child beyond 2 births a woman loses 1 year of her life. 3 children a loss of 1 year. 9 children 7 years. It isn’t a political issue.
What are possible reasons for so many abortions? Birth control? There’s a nexus between women entering the workforce in mass numbers and abortion increase. Is that a reason? Men are within women on the job now and weren’t before the working woman took effect? Is that a reason? Marriage has been degraded by social normatives including same sex marriages? Surrogates? Buying and selling gametes? In vitro? Embryos stored? Ova stored?
It isn’t because women think it’s merely inconvenient. Perhaps a university will actually tackle it and find real reasons.
^^^^ with and not “within”
Around, among etc.
* CONTEXT. ALL living organisms REPRODUCE. It’s simply reproduction to sustain life of any organism! Bacteria, bees, , flowers, trees, birds, humans, ALL, ALL, ALL living organisms reproduce AND adaptation is part of this system. Adaptation has gone awry in genetic abnormalities.
Be fruitful and multiply is a statement of science! It’s not an order. IT’S A STATEMENT OF WHAT ALL LIVING THINGS DO.
Omg….ever notice rocks don’t reproduce? It’s not magic , folks.
Two interesting statements by Mike Johnson:
1. “Matt Gaetz is a private citizen. Congress should not investigate a private citizen.”
2. “It doesn’t matter that Hunter Biden is a private citizen. The American people deserve to know. Congress needs to investigate to the fullest extent.”
Hypocrisy is the only skill he has.
I like how BugAnon claps at this own comments.
The context is radically different.
In the case of Hunter – the House was investigating the president and his potentiallu llegal dealings with foreigners through his familiy.
It was also investigating the DOJ, FBI, IRS and their handling of the Hunter Biden case – Did he get special treatment ? Was DOJ, … trying to coverup the crimes of the president ?
In the case of Gaetz – the House Ethics committee was investigating one of their own – AFTER a Hostile DOJ investigation had found no crime.
I would further note that the raving about the House Ethics committee report is nonsense. Had Gaetz continued to seek the office of AG, the FBI would have re-investigated everything – All cabinet appointments go through an incredibly thorough FBI investigation. Unless witnesses changed their stories, the Senate would have had all the same information the house ethics committee had.
The REAL Story regarding Gaetz is NOT the claims regarding his behavior, the real story is that there are still way to many republicans in congress – and particularly the senate who are hostile to the Republican party platform, and leaders. That would be fine – if it was part of a public debate over policy and people. It is NOT fine when Republicans are continuing the “lawfare” that Democrats were engaged in.
Absent Evidence that a FOJ that was motivated to GET Gaetz somehow deliberately choose to protect him and let him off – in which case ABSOLUTELY lets go after Gaetz AND those in the Garland DOJ who were protecting Gaetz,
Your problem is that no one Believes that the Garland DOJ was not doing everything possible to GET Gaetz.
“All cabinet appointments go through an incredibly thorough FBI investigation”
Hmmm. Since in theory the incoming administration, particularly the incoming AG, will be investigating the FBI with an eye toward purging it of nogoodniks and do-nothings, radically reforming it, possibly even merging it with another department or bureau, or even eliminating it, do you think that process constitutes a potential conflict of interest (it seems pretty clear to me that it does) and what, if anything can be done to mitigate that?
The FBI investigations of Gaetz would have started the moment he was announced.
NO radically reforming the FBI is not a conflict with their legitimate role to of background investigations – either for security clearances or for nominations.
In FACT the purpose of those reforms you are complianing about is to DEPOLITICIZE the FBI – to have them DO THEIR JOB without politics – not their personal politics, not that of their superiors.
If the results of Trump’s reforms are a Merit Garland DOJ/FBI except flipped Right rather than left, Then Trump will have failed.
Voters did not demand an end to lawfare against Republicans. They demanded an end to lawfare.
What those of you one the left fail to grasp is that REQUIRES consequences for those who engaged in lawfare.
If Trump targets Schumer or Harris, or Biden – there will be h311 to pay.
If Trump’s AG fires everyone throughout the U government who participated in censorship,
If they prosecute those who went after Abortion protestors or spied on catholics or labeled parents of school children domestic terorists – people will be cheering.
If Jay Bratt is disbarred censured – even prosecuted for attemping to blackmail a defnse attorney – people will be cheering.
What is the difference ?
The difference is between prosecuting Crimes and prosecuting people.
We KNOW that censorship took place. We KNOW that ordinary americans were spied on, targeted, and labeled as domestic terrorists.
We will find those who did that and impose consequences.
What we saw from the left was – “show me the person, and I will show you the crime”.
And you did so OBVIOUSLY and OPENLY. without thought for consequences.
Hopefully the consequences are now coming.
Not because you are hated – though you are,
But because nations do not survive when the rule of law becomes the rule of man.
How did you reach a conclusion that puts me on the “Left”. I generally respect your comments, but that one is a real howler; maybe you sometimes skim too quickly before replying? My explicit concern is that someone or some group at the FBI would embellish or outright fabricate negatives in reports on a candidate or candidates whom they believe constitute particular threats to the current corrupt state of their agency. Bureaucracies nearly always mindlessly defend their status quo regardless of merit. Considering what we have recently seen in their fictitious and/or exaggerated findings maliciously intended to bolster Biden-Harris and Democrats at the expense of Trump and allies, I think that concern is particularly well-founded in this example. On what evidentiary basis do you dismiss it?
The initial investigation was the reason Biden ran for office and cheated. He had to run the clock.
LBJ had to participate in the “impeachment and conviction” of JFK from the Grassy Knoll in Dallas because LBJ was headed to prison over the corruption of his partner, Billie Sol Estes.
Are you saying there is some parity between allegations against Gaetz that the hostile Garland DOJ rejected and those against
hunter ?
There are serious questions regarding the credibility of witnesses against Gaetz.
But lets assume the allegations are True.
Lets assume that Gaetz paid for the plane ticket for a 17yr old to fly to meet him for the purposes of having sex.
In most of this country that is legal.
To my knowledge that is the ONLY criminal allegation against Gaetz.
There is no claim that anything he has done was not consensual.
There are some other claims of inappropriate but not illegal conduct on the house floor.
Conversely Hunter Biden, in addition to being the bag man for the Biden family criminal influence peddling operation,
Was buying and distributing several hundred thousand dollars in illegal drugs per year to “friends” and clients – that is drug dealing,
and it is a very very serious crime. Poor minorities in this country holding relatively small amounts of drugs for a friend can spend decades in prison as a drug dealer.
The LEAST of Hunters crimes was lying to the FBI an lying on his gun purchase background check.
Hunter was also procuring prostitutes for himself and other and transporting them accross state lines constantly.
And we have not even touched the Massive FARA violations or the influence pedaling operation.
“There is no claim that anything he has done was not consensual.”
Having sex with a 17 year old even if consensual is a crime. It’s called statutory rape. Are you suggesting that allegations of sex with a minor shouldn’t be taken seriously because it was consensual?
Only in 11 states, moron, and 6 of those have some exceptions. Which is consistent with what John Say claimed.
United States Age of Consent Map
https://www.ageofconsent.net/states
Fvcking imbecile. The investigation re: Hunter was about government dealings, including his father.
The investigation should focus on two tiers of justice. Especially when it is applied to Government Officials or their surrogates. 51 Security Clearances should be revoked for the flagrant neglect of their actions.
Can you source these quotes?
The common posting tactic of commies:
1. Post on a subject that is completely and totally unrelated to the column of the day.
2. Attack a Republican with a post completely devoid of context and nuance. If not an outright lie.
The commies are still trying to understand why they lost the election and get no support here.
Meanwhile here in the USA hundreds of millions of dollars spent on taxpayer funded censorship:
https://openthebooks.substack.com/p/taxpayer-funded-censorship-how-government
Turley– “Journalists joined the call for censorship and accused the network of publishing biased and dangerous ideas.”
Of course they did.
Most news media everywhere seems to be variants of Le Pere Duchesne.
The UK and France show where our Jacobin Democrats were taking us. No Free Speech=No Freedom. And that’s their goal.
@Young
Very much agreed, we simply would not as a free society have survived another four years of dem governance (and I use the term lightly, dominance is more apt). We have temporarily dodged a bullet, but the mess they have made since 2020 – some parts of it are likely not possible to fix, and indeed, it was very much by design. It’s difficult to wrap one’s head around the willful malfeasance. Where we go from here is anyone’s guess, but at least we have a chance; other Western countries without our charters and laws are not so fortunate.
I still see a great deal of bifurcation in thought though, particularly on the left (so-called ‘swing’ voters); they think voting against dem governance is automatically ‘conservative’ and are still stalwart in their belief that it is the government’s job (now the ‘conservative’ government) to solve their problems for them. And if they don’t? These petulant children will just vote for dems again next time. There is far too little rallying around the notion of *true* freedom, people are just too inculcated into their personal ideologies and/or ideas. This country was founded on the opposite of that mentality, and I sure hope we can come back around to it, black/brown/white, poor or of means, Christian/Jewish/Muslim/secular, native born, or naturalized.
More on James later.
@Anonymous
Why not now? Pfft. 🙄
“More on James later.”
Because Mom told you she had your Hot Pockets ready, fresh out of the oven.
@ James
“We have temporarily dodged a bullet, but the mess they have made since 2020 – some parts of it are likely not possible to fix, and indeed, it was very much by design.”
I agree completely. But I have noticed that there are a lot of people in America and in the wider world who report a sense of relief that Trump won, the easing of some painful psychological burden. What especially caught my attention was that the same relief was reported by people who admitted that they voted for Harris.
Everything may depend on how much can be accomplished. Vivek and Musk have outlined in a WSJ article how they may deal with the administrative state. Some ideas we have already thought of, like moving some agencies out if DC. But one mentioned was pure genius. Since Chevron was overturned agencies are limited in their rule making to what is authorized by Congress. Rule making has been much abused and there are so many of them. Look how the CFR has grown. How to weed it?
They are considering using AI to go through the regulations and diagnose whether they comply with the legal mandates authorized by Congress. In other words seeing if they are unconstitutional. If so they can be eliminated at once and not restored without a full legislative process.
There are many other things that can be done and protecting free speech is essential to getting results and having them last. By going so insane the Democrats have opened a door for possible reform.
There is hope. We did indeed dodge a bullet.
@Young
Again, agreed, though I do not believe it should be handed off to very much flawed algorithms – that is further madness, and playing right into their hands.
@ James
They will use AI only as an additional tool. They also plan to use embedded attorneys.
The Code of Federal Regulations makes for dense reading and sometimes, often, requires a store of basic knowledge. Not many who use it daily while working in an agency think to check and see if the statute truly authorizes a particular regulation. AI would be a remarkable tool for whittling down a thicket that took years to build and would take many years to sort out using ordinary means. There will be many invested ‘experts’ to contest the conclusions AI might reach.
It is worth remembering that besides creating Starlink, giant space ships, Tesla, and brain interfaces, Musk is also rapidly building one of the most powerful super computers in the world. I think he named it Colossus, which is kind of hair raising if one remembers the old movie, ‘Colossus – The Forbin Project.’
In any event, I think he and Vivek can handle this job.
I imagine he is really looking forward to dealing with the lard butt bureaucrats who abused their regulatory powers getting in his way. I am looking forward to it too.
That from Young.
” AI would be a remarkable tool for whittling down a thicket that took years to build and would take many years to sort out using ordinary means.”
I spent 38 years in an IT career, and I have been very skeptical of the claims made for AI as some kind of panacea. I still am. However, it does has proper applications, and this may well be one of them, as long as the results are parsed by knowledgeable humans before being acted upon. Actually, imo this is a better case for use of AI than most I have seen, since I have zero concern that DOGE will eliminate too much government (to me, that possibility is represented by the null set).
It’s things like this that make me nostalgic for Emperor Napoleon. He canceled many a Jacobin. I’m being facetious (or maybe I’m not), but the Left too frequently creates its own enemies–like military juntas.
“Du sublime au ridicule, souvent il n’y a qu’un pas.” The commies need to heed the Emperor’s warning.
Diogenes: “He canceled many a Jacobin”
I am not sure what you mean by cancelled. For example, he somehow converted radicals like Fouche and Sieyes, and Jaques Louis David to embrace the concept of an emperor who had more actual power than the king they executed. It was David who painted the picture of a dying Marat in his tub only to later paint the heroic picture of Napoleon crossing the Alps. Quite a 180 degree change of thinking one might suppose, but at core they perhaps just loved raw power. Our own Left has chameleon values but is consistently addicted to sticking their noses into other people’s business. You must not have business that is not also their business; you must not have thoughts that are not also their thoughts.
Young, I appreciate your grasp of history. Didn’t know that about the converts. Thanks 🙂
I recall the Emperor did shutdown (cancel?) a lot of newspapers. I assumed some of them had to be Jacobin, but I could be wrong. Please, feel free to correct me if I’m mistaken on that point.
If a fetus is not a human as so many on the left insist, then how can Planned Parenthood make so much money selling human organs from the fetuses?
* Why are men engaging in unprotected events causing pregnancies that are then aborted? They knew the female was single. Why haven’t they been fined, charged, jailed or something? They knew the single female was not their licensed wife! Why are there so many irresponsible males causing abortions?
* “Why haven’t they been fined, charged, jailed or something? They knew the single female was not their licensed wife! Why are there so many irresponsible males causing abortions?”
That’s the other half of those Reproductive Rights you keep mentioning and fighting for. You thought that there are Rights that only exist for those who have a uterus like you?
I can’t believe they’d do that. They’re defining which words you can legally use to describe things?
How do we convince these modern generations that their right to speak freely is so much more important than their desire to not be offended?
Was Kira’s life worth saving?
Heartbreaking
What is particularly heartbreaking is that this war was avoidable, and once begun it could still have been stopped in its early stages through a deal that was on the table but scuttled by the Biden administration. The money laundering operation was just too valuable for the people being enriched by it, to allow it to come to a halt, the innocent lives of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians be damned.
Ok everybody, let’s all stand up and do the Donald Trump schuffle. YMCA!
Let’s not.
You don’t have to stand up. Just clench your fists, bend your elbows and move from side to side.
What else can you clench?
It’s all the rage, if you hadn’t noticed, Gigenius.
Tom: NO it isn’t–because of the insulated bubble you live in, you MAGAs think that everything your orange hero does “is the rage”–but you are wrong. Most of us Americans do not approve of Trump, who is stuck in his Studio 54 bachelor days, lurking around discos, when the Village People and “YMCA” were popular. And
“YMCA” does celebrate gay culture, something your Project 2025 Christian Nationalists don’t approve of.
To be fair there are videos all over the internet of athletes, newscasters, and so on, doing the dance.
If medical abortion is a “cause of death”, then why isn’t any abortion a “cause of death”, including spontaneous abortions or miscarriages? This definition raises many questions concerning the meaning and interpretation of terms such a “death rate”.
Can you give us an example of some of those many questions?
Uh, an abortion is not spontaneous, that’s called a miscarriage and is NOT the same as an abortion – this is one of the many ways the Left has tried to muddy the waters.
Uh, yes–abortions that are spontaneous are still called abortions. From “wikipedia”:
“Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by removal or expulsion of an embryo or fetus.[nb 1][2] An abortion that occurs without intervention is known as a miscarriage or “spontaneous abortion”; these occur in approximately 30% to 40% of all pregnancies.[3][4] When deliberate steps are taken to end a pregnancy, it is called an induced abortion, or less frequently “induced miscarriage”. “
Gigi, do you understand – no one beleives you or your sources anymore.
As is typical – you and the left mange words in order to win arguments.
Find a text from 50 years ago that calls a miscarraige a spontaneous abortio.
Regardless the critical point is that what happends as a result of nature is NOT the same as what happens as the direction of humans.
People die from lightning strikes, from shark attacks, from huricanes and tornados.
We do not call those murders.
Humans CHOOSE to kill. Nature does not.
Humans are held accountable for their choices to kill.
Nature is not.
Whatever you call it – when nature decides to end a pregnancy that is not at all the same as when a human chooses to.
Just as it is not the same if a gust of wind blows a person off a bridge to their death, or someone pushes them.
Stedman’s Medical Dictionary: “abortion–expulsion from the uterus of an embryo or fetus before the stage of viability (20 weeks’ gestation or fetal weight of less than 500 grams). …Abortion may be either spontaneous (occurring from natural causes) or induced (artificial or therapeutic).
Dorland’s Medical Dictionary (24th Edition, copyrighted 1965): “abortion –the premature expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception—of the embryo, or of a nonviable fetus”.
Williams Obstetrics: “Abortion is the termination of pregnancy by any means before the fetus is sufficiently developed to survive. When abortion occurs spontaneously, the term miscarriage has been applied by lay persons.”
I have multiple other texts in my library that all say the same thing. The word “abortion” simply means the expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception prior to the age of fetal viability. There are multiple sub-definitions, such as “threatened abortion” “inevitable abortion” “septic abortion”, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.
So, John Say, you have proven exactly what a MAGA is–not only do you not know what the hell you’re talking about, and not only do you refuse to listen to others who have more education and knowlege on the subject–but you reject out of hand anything that is contrary to what you’ve been misled into believing, and that explains how Trump “won” the election with the help of MAGA media and why so many people believed the lies about the economy teetering on the brink and that the country is headed in the wrong direction. It also explains why so many MAGAs refuse vaccinations, believe in Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin as cures for COVID and reject health advice–all resulting in unnecessary illness and deaths.
No one is “managing words” here. Medically speaking, “abortion” is the termination of a pregnancy, either spontaneously, or by natural causes prior to the age of fetal viabilty.
* 😂 You missed the part where and when EVERYONE dies at some point. The biggest killer is nature. No one knows the hour…
For the hairs on your head are numbered. What does that tell you, John? 😂
Gigenius the “nurse” turns to wikipedia for her medical advice.
Planned Parenthood for causes other than self-defense is a homicide and murder past six weeks in every state including liberal jurisdictions operating under the Pro-Choice religion in progressive sects where the “burden” of evidence is aborted in darkness. #HateLovesAbortion
George “Fentanyl” Floyd syndrome is a Fentanyl-induced selfie-abortion.
Spontaneous abortion is Her Choice.
Human rites were performed by ancient religious cults for social, clinical, criminal, political, and climate progress.
* Yep, the unprotected male generally doesn’t call her in 45 days to ask if she’s pregnant. That’s her business.
Incredible misogyny…
* “* Yep, the unprotected male generally doesn’t call her in 45 days to ask if she’s pregnant. That’s her business. Incredible misogyny…”
Yep, the unprotected female is the one that makes the call in 45 days. To him. Because she knows that she has the right to inform him that he will be making support payments for the next 18 years and he has no say in the matter.
Incredible misandry from the estrogen mafia.
When people fie as a result of the functioning of nature – we call those deaths from natural causes.
Regardless you are free to disagree with CNEWS’s use of terms – you are NOT free to compell them to speak only in language YOU approve.
Everyone on this blog tolerates the constant stupid idiotic false claims by those of you on the left.
By YOUR standards the election of Trump means that we can start fining you and jailing you and force you to humiliate yourself by publicly disowning your own values.
This conduct by the censorious left is not merely wrong – it is stupid.
You have not converted anyone by silencing them.
All you do is create anger resentment, and amplify the risk of violence.
Violence against government IS JUSTIFIED when Government loses the trust of the people and actively precludes people from doing anything about that.
With near Certainty – La Penn will win the next French election. Do you want her and her party using the power to silence views she does not like in the same way You have ?
* John, did you miss the part about the devil being a man?
Justifiable homicide – homicide nonetheless.
* Physicians do report miscarriages to the CDC . It’s a matter of tracking public health looking for clusters or trends.
Jonathan: What do you do when DJT’s pics for his new administration get shot down? You avoid discussing them. You try to divert attention by discussing “non-crime hate” speech in Great Britain and abortion in France. It looks like it’s up to some of us on this blog to bring us back to a discussion of some of DJT’s disastrous pics for his new administration.
Take Matt Gaetz who finally had to withdraw his nomination for AG after credible allegations of sex trafficking of minors. Why DJT picked Gaetz in the first place defies logic. Gaetz was the most horrible choice in the history of presidential nominations. But the damage has already been done. Gaetz set a record compared to other with drawls by nominees of previous presidents. It took only 16 days for Gaetz to withdraw his nomination. And DJT wasted a lot of goodwill with GOP Senators by threatening them if they didn’t confirm Gaetz.
And who has DJT picked to replace Gaetz? Pam Bondi, the former FL AG who has her own baggage. In picking Bondi, DJT has replaced one sycophant with another. After leaving office in 2019 Bondi joined the MAGA movement. She became the head of the “America First Policy Institute” that went to court pushing the false claim that the 2020 election was “stolen” by Joe Biden. When she was Fl’s AG she refused to join the lawsuit against Trump University for defrauding its students. Bondi claimed she received only a few complaints about TU. In fact, there were scores of complaints by students at TU. DJT was eventually forced to settle for $25 million–and this came after Bondi received an illegal $25,000 campaign contribution from a DJT charity.
So Bondi is a true believer. Like Gaetz she will push DJT’s agenda of revenge prosecutions against her boss’s personal political enemies. Under Bondi any independence of the DOJ will go out the window. No doubt all of Bondi’s history of support DJT’s agenda will come out at her Senate confirmation hearing. Will she eventually go the way of Matt Gaetz?
In your column on 11/15 you claimed William McGinley would be a “brilliant choice” for DJT’s WH Counsel. Will you say the same about Pam Bondi?
“It looks like it’s up to some of us on this blog to bring us back to a discussion of some of DJT’s disastrous pics for his new administration.”
I think you misspoke. Let me correct that for you!
“It looks like it’s up to some of us on this blog to keep spewing DNC talking points, because that is what we get paid to do!”
Dennis – do you really expect that Bondi is going to have the lest difficulty getting confirmed ?
While I fully expect that AG Bondi will do wht Trump wants, and what voters demanded just a few days ago – and clean house.
AND the claim that the AG/DOJ is independent is a constitutional horsechiff.
If you want DOJ to be independent – amend the constitution and elect the AG as many states do.
I would likely support that.
But that is not how it is. In the US the entire executive is answerable to the president and the first clause of Article
II of the constitution is The executive power of the united states is vested in the president.
The judiciary is independent, the congress is independent, the AG is not.
Regardless as you note Bondi is a “true beleiver” – but not in Trump, in the Platform of the GOP.
Trump 47 is Radically different from Trump 45.
This is far less about Trump than about the 2024 GOP agenda. This is about the future of the GOP.
You will note that nearly ALL Trump’s appointments are YOUNG.
They are also MOSTLY NOT congressmen – partly to avoid temporarily reducing GOP control of congress,
but also because as we have seen there are a FEW Republicans in congress who are not onboard with the GOP platform.
Trump’s appointees ARE – Trump sent a huge message early on when he said – NO NEOCONS.
The GOP has a mandate from voters – that mandate is agenda 47 – that is what Trump is seeking to deliver,
That is what Trump’s appointees are committed to.
That is what House and Senate republicans had better get behind.
This is NOT about what Trump wants. This is about what Voters expect.
They EXPECT Trump to deliver – QUICKKLY
They EXPECT Trump’s appointments to deliver QUICKLY
They EXPECT house and senate Republicans to deliver QUICKLY.
A part of Agenda 47 is ENDING the weaponization of the DOJ and FBI and govenrment generally,
it is about ending the interferance in free speech.
If Bondi does not FIRE alot of people – not only Will Trump be upset – but Voters will be upset.
There will be investigations – if you engaged in misconduct you should expect consequences.
Justice is NOT revenge.
SOME people will likely be prosecuted, consequences are a powerful disincentive.
Regardless, Democrats need to waste alot of funds defending themselves legally against misconduct in office.
So that they do not engage in that misconduct again.
But that is NOT the priority of this administration.
John Say: it’s sad that so many people believe what they are fed by MAGA media. One of the biggest whoppers is the nonexistent “mandate”. Trump barely squeaked by–he got less than 50% of the popular vote, he only improved the EC count by 6, and in 4 swing states he won, the Republican Senate candidate LOST. Hillary Clinton’s popular vote total in 2016 was bigger. His “victory” ranks 41st out of the last 51 election cycles. Trump lied over and over again–about the economy being bad, about the country being headed in the wrong direction, and lies about migrants overruning small towns, killing and eating pets, committing murders and rapes–but the worst by far was the lie that if he got elected that personal wealth would soar and grocery and housing costs would plummet precipitiously. These lies are the reasons why so many people voted for Trump–not because they support his retribution or personal grievances, or the “quickly” crap you claim. Most Americans do not believe that the DOJ or FBI have been “weaponized”. From “U GOV”: “Majorities of Americans believe each of the four cases against Trump is at least somewhat serious. On the federal-election and Jan. 6 charges, 44% of Americans say this case is very serious and 19% say it is somewhat serious. About half (41%) say the Georgia election case’s charges are very serious; 20% say they are somewhat serious.” In fact, most Americans wanted to see Trump go to trial before the election. So, you can’t say most Americans believed the BS about “weaponization” of the DOJ and FBI. That’s about to change, however.
You cannot seriously dispute that Trump did everything with which he was charged– he DID steal classified documents, lie aout returning them, and hid them to prevent them from being returned. He DID falsify business records and got others to falsify Electoral College documents. Although it was not a criminal charge, he DID steal from his charitable foundation and was forced to return the money, plus pay a fine. The same is true of Trump University–fraud–$25 million in fines. He DID try to get Secretaries of State to falsify election records in 2020. He DID start an insurrection when he lost in 2020. You also cannot seriously argue that if any of the rest of us did these things, we’d be prosecuted, and that the prosecution would be valid.
Gigi. it is sad that so many on the left keep trying to spin this.
This was not only a shellacking of the Democratic party
Some voters absolutely Wanted Trump. But a significant portion of those who voted for Trump either wanted Trumps policies (preferably without Trum0)
or were explicitly voting against Democrats and the left.
Further many people who Voted against Trump – did so because the LEFT had convinced them Trump was dangerous – but they wanted Trump’s policies.
I would note that is OBVIOUS – because Harris went to a great deal of trouble to pretend that she was all things to all people – that she was far left to lefties, but economically more conservative than Trump, that she would secure the border, that she was the champion of law and order.
Further many democrat incumbents tried to embrace Trump to get reelected – and some succeeded.
This was the “red wave” that was supposed to land in 2022.
Finally – it is not just the Republican majority this year, it is also the trend.
Several things have been going on since 2012.
Voters – especially minorities are trending Republican.
Republicans are gaining more black votes, more Hispanic votes, more other minority votes with each election.
That Trend continued in this election.
What is clear from this election is that Democrats have an Existential problem, and that if they do not fix it they will have trouble winning elections in the future.
Republicans have been gaining slowly in the rust belt for a long time. Ohio used to be a swing state now it is deep red.
PA, MI, WI will follow absent major changed in the Democratic party.
NC may flip blue again. More of a reach GA may flip blue.
But NV is going red, MN is going red, NJ is going red, VA is going red.
NH, may go red,
Even deep blue places like NY CA, WA, OR are moving towards Republicans – even if they are not flipping anytime soon.
TX was supposed to flip blue guaranteeing Democrats control of the future – but it is slowly shifting MORE RED.
The GOP mandate is not just about 2% of the vote – though it is about a 6% swing since 2020 – unless you are prepared to admit that 2020 was massive fraud.
And it is a 6% swing since 2016 and a larger swing since 2012.
Next, Democrats and Harris had EVERYTHING – except reality behind them.
They had relentless attacks on Trump for 4 years.
They had massive lawfare,
They had constant Trump hatred on the MSM and Social Media.
They had not just politicians by the MSM chanting nazi, nazi, fascist, hitler.
They had celebrities out the whazzo.
They hard Oprah,
They had Taylor Swift.
What they/You did NOT have was reality.
People are not stupid.
They KNOW that the Biden Harris administration is a disaster.
The KNOW that the entire Democratic party is responsible.
So despite every advantage EXCEPT reality – Trump won.
Throughout this election – you told us all Trump was a felon, and a rapist, and that he lost the debate,
and that he was a liar and a facist, and a nazi.
Not only did YOU say these things – but the entire MSM said them. The entire democratic party dais them.
And a majority still voted for Trump.
That is a MASSIVE mandate.
Voters determined that YOU and all of your Cronies are LIARS
And they do not want you to ever have power again.
And if Trump delivers SOME of his promises – 2028 will be a blood bath for Democrats.
In 1980 Ronald Reagan won 50.7% of the vote, that is less than 0.5% more than Trump – that was a Landslide.
* Yes, but does Bondi have courage? Sessions and Barr did not but both are very good men.
Her nickname will quickly become Pam Blondi.
No, it will be “take no prisoners Bondi”.
@Anonymous: “Yes, but does Bondi have courage? Sessions and Barr did not but both are very good men. Her nickname will quickly become Pam Blondi.”
* You approve of Merrick Garland’s nickname “L’il Lavarentiy Garland”?
Blister on my finger scrolling passed…^^^
Its gonna be Bondi. Whine on Dennis, no one cares.
“What do you do when DJT’s pics for his new administration get shot down? You avoid discussing them.”
Correct, Gaetz has removed himself from consideration as AG.
While that is allegedly his choice there are stories that Trump called him and pulled the plug.
Trump was not willing to expend political capital and worse likely lose, when he had other prospects that are equally good.
Gaetz may be able to return to his house seat – he certainly can run for it again. He may run for Rubio’s senate seat.
I will address the Gaetz Allegations briefly and directly.
The CLAIM is that Gaetz paid for the plane ticket of a 17yr old to come to a conferance he was at to have sex with him.
There is a great deal of evidence that claim is false. Gaetz claims that he did not have sex with this person.
But lets assume the FACTS alleged are 100% true. Gaetz a single male paid for the plane ticket of a 17yr old to come to a conferance he was at with the intention of having sex with him.
In most of the country – that is legal. You are free to vote against Gaetz over that. You are not free to prosecute him.
I would note that the claim that Biden raped Tara Reade is stronger.
Regardless DOJ did not prosecute – just as they did not prosecute Hunter Biden for paying to fly prostitutes to DC to have sex with freinds and clients.
What is evident from the Gaetz events is that there are still too many republicans in the senate that stand in the way of the platform that the american people voted for.
“You try to divert attention by discussing “non-crime hate” speech in Great Britain and abortion in France.”
This is Turley’s blog. It is a legal blog, and it has a focuss on free speech.
The FACT that you remain free to post constant insults to Turley on this blog reflect his commitment to free speech.
If your TDS requires all discussion to be about Trump – you are free to go elsewhere.
As to your fixation on Trump and Trump’s appointments. If Gaetz is your standard for “disasterous” – Please sir can I have more.
Gaetz was not tanked over his anything that the media has ranted about. Gaetz was tanked because he made enemies with a number of Republicans,
Because he is one of the leaders of the insurrections that sought to hold Paul Ryan or McCarthy’s feet to the fire.
The other nonsense was just an excuse that allows the Thune’s and Cornyn’s and Collin’s and Murkowski’s to vote against him.
“It looks like it’s up to some of us on this blog to bring us back to a discussion of some of DJT’s disastrous pics for his new administration.”
You can discuss whatever you want.
I find the choices interesting. This is radically different from the First term. These are people who Share Trump’s agenda, who do not NEED constant direction from the white house.
There is absolutely no way that Trump can do the things he promissed regarding reducing Government.
But the appointments he has made strongly indicate that both he and those he has appointed will fight vigorously to cut government.
And while those cuts will be smaller than promised and smaller than necescary – they still will likely be the largest ever accomplished.
I am VERY HAPPY about that.
I am Libertarian – Not MAGA – I want government shrunk to almost nothing.
Why did Trump pick Gaetz ? Because he is a firebrand and because he is a rising star in the GOP.
I do not know what will happen with Gaetz next, I do not know if he can rescind his resignation and return to the house.
I suspect he can – in which case the report will be released and the house will likely censor him and move on.
Just as they censored Schiff. He will continue to serve and be as outspoken as ever.
But if he can not just rescind his resignation – in 90 days he will have to run for his house seat again – where he will near certainly win.
Or alternately he can seek Rubio’s Senate seat – like Schiff has.
Regardless, I highly doubt Gaetz is going away. And worse for the left – this issue is now defanged. It will be raised in future campaigns, but it no longer has teeth.
With respect to Trump’s relation to the GOP senators – you do not seem to grasp how that works.
Sen. Murkowski publicly commented on the FACT that she was bombarded by Republicans demanding that she confirm Gaetz.
This is not the 2016 GOP senate – there was a HUGE gress roots effort to tank Cornyn and Thune as Majority Leader – that failed for now.
But Senators were put on Notice that Republican Voters are WATCHING and they Want Agenda 47 enacted.
Trump did not burn any political capital with Gaetz – if anything the nomination put Senators on notice – Confirm Trump nominees quickly.
the Voters WANT Agenda 47 implemented QUICKLY.
“Regardless, I highly doubt Gaetz is going away.”
Not going away, but not returning to Congress, either. Our loss, I believe.
Gaetz Says He Will Not Return to Congress After Withdrawing AG Bid
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/gaetz-says-he-will-not-return-to-congress-after-withdrawing-ag-bid/
“”I’m still going to be in the fight, but it’s going to be from a new perch. I do not intend to join the 119th Congress,” Gaetz told podcast host Charlie Kirk in an interview.”
Dennis – Democrats LOST. Voters explicitly REJECTED Democrats.
There are many reasons for this. But it still all comes down to as Cassius said “The fault, dear Brutus is not in our stars, but in ourselves.”
The next election is 2 yrs away. Republicans are in a better position in 2025 than Biden was in 2021.
All they must do to GROW their majority is not F#$K up.
That means they MUST deliver on the Agenda 47 platform.
That is what people expect.
A peacefull 4 years.
A secure southern border.
No more of this woke nonsense.
Rising standard of living.
No more massive inflation.
Respect for Free speech.
an end to government lawfare
There is a theme that ties Turley’s recent posts about England and France with Gaetz, and Bondi and this election.
What Turely is noting in England and France is NOT government going after the political opositions leaders – as bad as that is.
It is Government going after its own citizens over political values.
People where HIGHLY offended by the lawfare against Trump by Democrats.
But Trump effectively painted himself as a Marytr for the people.
And Like the left in the UK and France Trump was able to do so – because you did much more than come after Him.
You came after pro-life protestors.
after parents of HS studenets raped by KTF trans in girls bathrooms,
After catholics.
People here, in this country see what YOU are doing in France and the UK – and it is Not going after Nial Farrage or Borris Johnson, or Marine La Penn,
it is going after ordinary people – school children, their parents, the church.
The people who Voted FOR Trump EXPECT – DEMAND that the vestiges of the same nonsense in the US are rooted out and burned.
And those engaged in that nonsense are removed from power and Punished.
That is NOT the most important thing Voters expect of Trump, of Trump’s nominees, of the House, of the Senate.
But it is absolutely one of several things they ABSOLUTELY expect to be delivered.
Voters have different expectations of each Trump appointment.
They expect world PEACE from Trump’s state department – and the foreign policy people in the WH.
They expect the deed state to be removed from the roots – from CIA, NSA and the Intelligence community.
They expect the DoD to be prepared to fight whatever conflictes we might face in the future.
They expect that DoD will be so OBVIOUSLY strong as to deter even the thought of facing the US.
They expect all of this to be done for LESS money than we currently spend.
They expect govenrment spending to be cut – EVERYWHERE.
They expect an end to govenrment censorship of any kind – whether directly or by proxy.
They expect a strong and growing economy with low or no inflation and rising wages.
They expect those who abused government power – especially those who used that power driven by politics against ordinary people to face justice, to face consequences.
Trump’s accomplishments in his first term were incredible. Especially give the opposition he face – even within the GOP,
and the Russia, Russia, Russia nonsense. But pretty much everything Trump accomplished during his first terms was through presidential power wielded at the WH directly.
As you note – This term is different. Trump’s appointments are much younger. They directly reflect the voters expectations, and they share Trump’s commitment to deliver on promises. Trump promised and Voters asked for a RADICAL transformation of Federal govenrment. Coming even close to accomplishing that REQUIRES appointments that are committed to that.
in 2016 Trump Beat Clinton – but he did not truly take leadership of the Republican party.
The Mandate for 2024 is not just to Trump – but the entire GOP.
And they had BETTER Deliver.
* Please don’t leave out trans day on the WH lawn. Wasn’t that Easter?
Yes Rose, it was vulgar.
One could suppose that the words of Les Marseillais must next be changed, to be less offensive to tyrants.
Putin has been killing Ukrainian babies. Are they worth saving?
Yes of course they are. If you mean should the US send troops over to fight and die in another war in Europe, or promote the indefinite continuation of war, or trigger nuclear armageddon, then no.
What would be an appropriate circumstance for US troops to fight and die?
What if the troops wanted to do it, because they saw it as the right thing to do, despite the objections of isolationists. Is that allowable?
First you give yourself away as unserious by using the term “isolationist” to describe anyone who doesn’t think it’s in our national interest to declare war on Russia and enter this conflict with American boots on the ground. Not smart.
Second, nobody is stopping volunteers.
Do us all a favor and stop responding to this retard
Supposedly, in such a case congress would declare war…
No, it is not allowable. It takes an acf of Congress to declare war. Then orders are issued to commanders to set into motion to deploy troops. If some one wants to volenteer for the Ukraian military as a private citizen, they can.
* Alas, there are no young men to spare anymore. Currently, young men are being imported.
Where have all the young men gone long time passing. 🎶
Funny, isn’t it, that in medicine, we commonly refer to “tissue death” (necrosis) and cellular death, but we are forbidden from referring to a whole united community of cellular/tissue (fetus) as a “death.” I am NOT taking a position on abortion here (and in fact have no problem with earliest-stage, prior-to-fetus-forming intervention).
But, call it what it is.
It. is. a. death.
Of living cells and tissue–at any stage. Just be honest about it. Say its name, say its name.
(p.s. I believe an embryo becomes a fetus at @ 8th or 9th week of pregnancy; I am open to correction?)
Lin, I just looked it up and the sources on the internet say the change in terminology happens at 8 weeks, so the first day of the 9th week. But it is just terminology, not a change in personhood.
Thanks, NotSoOld. (good to see that the criterion has remained relatively constant; it’s been a few years now since I’ve had any medical exposure in a professional application).
In any event, I don’t want to start an OT thread here, but I would respectfully disagree in terms of “personhood” in that, when a bird’s egg crashes to the ground and breaks, there is either an embryonic yolky cluster- or a nascent “fetal” form inside.
True, the personhood only applies to humans, imho.
Personhood? Odd word? Person suffices and with little fingerprints for identity. Perhaps they mean to convey the idea of autonomy?
Perhaps it’s an ignorance of genetics? Perhaps they think the new person is being created on the spot without a known plan already in place so it isn’t a person. Perhaps it’s like cake batter in their minds and just isn’t a cake? Maybe they think life begins at the first breath in there must be interaction with the world to be a person?
In any event approx 1 million single women between the ages of 20 to 40 will seek abortion.
Whether a scientist or a religious all life has reproduction of itself in common from clams to people to slime mold. That’s big.
And here I thought France had been a key part of the Enlightenment. I guess that phase is over. So abortion does not involve death. That is truly one of the most insane statements I have seen of late. I’m not going to tell you to pass up France on any tours because there is much that is great there and beautiful to see. One must remember that this is simply the result of this government’s present insanity. It does make me think of 1984 and NEWSPEAK where it’s difficult to understand a concept if there is no word for it.
I guess there is a new type of biology and definition of life in France.
What do they think a miscarriage is? Or a fetal death in utero is?
Death (in a mammal) is the cessation of a heartbeat, circulation, cessation of of all cellular activity and then breakdown of the organism’s cells into their constituent chemical remains and, of course, cessation of growth (because the organisms is dead).
Having been a medical student long ago in 1973, I was selected to assist in a saline abortion and did so. What was on the green towel at the cessation of the procedure was a tiny but easily identifiable human being with head, eyes, feet, hands, arms and legs. And it was dead.
I had to ask myself “why am I causing the death of the fetus when there was no reason other than the fact that the mother did not want it”. There was no risk to the mother’s health or other apparent reason. “I am supposed to be preserving life and not taking it”. Within a short period of time I became prolife, and cast off the legacy of death.
One wonders, at times, if Europe is worth saving but I think it still is. I blame the European Union because it has put a superstate above the countries that just further insulates the ruling elites from the common citizen and just make the elites even further out of touch and dictatorial.
Maybe the French heard that abortion just involved the death of Frogs and took offence.
GEB an atheist friend of mine is pro life for the same reason, and she became so in med school too. I’ve often wondered that most doctors are not pro life. They seem to have hardened their hearts against the reality that abortion causes the willful destruction of a human being (and the most innocent of all human beings).
You even have the bizarre spectacle of doctors specializing in 3rd trimester abortions. It’s hard for me to imagine someone having that hard a heart.
OldManfromKansas-Really depends on the age of the physician and I’m old. Younger is a little different and about 1/2 of med schools are made up of women now where they were a distinct minority when I was in med school. I do not know but that may have something to do with the acceptance of abortion which was not common when I was younger. Religious or not life is precious and unique. There is in some a lack of critical thinking in what this all means in some of the younger physicians but not all. It took time but I eventually even went anti death penalty because I had not been consistent in my reference for life.
There is a cheapening of the worth of life in some corners of the world and we are all the lessor for it. True respect for life forces us to make decisions that are difficult but better for us all as humans.
GEB it’s interesting to me that so many people who are smart enough to get into med school lack that critical thinking ability. I don’t think they would survive a debate on the topic with a skilled logician.
I see the death penalty as different because it in fact affirms the high value of innocent human life. With that said if I were a state legislator I would vote against it because it too costly in today’s America. Life without parole is still a severe penalty and public funds should be used responsibly and wisely, and I don’t see the extra cost as being worth it.
Do you have cites or links that show that the costs of administering the death penalty exceed those of maintaining the murderer in prison for the remainder of his or her life (that Is what I take you to be claiming)? If so, I will need to reconsider. I am opposed to the death penalty in most cases, only because of the risk that a guilty verdict could have been in error, no matter how minuscule the chance. However, I support it if the accused makes a credible (including evaluation of mental capability) confession. Part of the rationale for that is that execution is more efficient.
I was going off of my experience. Only a tiny fraction of people sentenced to death are actually executed. The vast majority live the rest of their lives on death row which is more expensive than being housed in the general population (not to mention the extra cost at trial of holding the penalty phase for the jury to decide on life or death). But in response to your question, I googled something like “cost of death penalty versus life without parole” and got some links, one of which is here:
https://www.cato.org/blog/financial-implications-death-penalty#:~:text=Each%20death%20penalty%20inmate%20is,reallocate%20them%20from%20other%20sources.
I remember in law school I read an interesting study about this. It pointed out that when a heinous crime is committed, the whole community is outraged and wants the death penalty. Once that is imposed by the judge, the person gets shipped off to death row for years of appeals, usually decades of appeals. During that time everyone forgets about it (except those close to the victim), and the defendant is usually never executed. So it serves some kind of social goal of satisfying people’s outrage, but without the bloodbath that would occur if everyone who is sentenced to death actually got put to death by the state – which I admit I would find troubling even though I have no ideological objections to the death penalty in the abstract.
It took time but I eventually even went anti death penalty because I had not been consistent in my reference for life.
Congratulations for being intellectually consistent. I was raised with the belief that the death penalty was valid. But, like you, I eventually pivoted upon reflection on the meaning of “pro-life”. There is literally no reason to support the death penalty in developed nations because these nations have prisons where they can place the condemned individual and thus protect society. If “payback”, “vengeance” or “eye for an eye” are the reasons, as conservatives often articulate, then clearly these individuals haven’t looked at their own stained souls. They continue to exist precisely because of God’s abundant mercies towards them.
Pope John Paul II began the change in Catholic teaching re: the death penalty – he was against it. Later Pope Benedict VI also supported the abolition of the death penalty, and most recently Pope Francis as well. Justice Antonin Scalia went off the rails on Pope Francis because of “his” stance on the death penalty, and eventually turned sede vacantist like many “conservative” Catholics.
Mercy is one of the few attributes that conservatives acknowledge regarding God’s gifts which is ironic.
“May the death penalty, an unworthy punishment still used in some countries, be abolished throughout the world.”
(Prayer at the Papal Mass at Regina Coeli Prison in Rome, July 9, 2000).
“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.”
(Homily at the Papal Mass in the Trans World Dome, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999).
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/religious-views-pope-john-paul-iis-statements-on-the-death-penalty
GEB, I’m sorry.
The embryo has personhood at conception. It’s like a flowerbud ever growing and becoming the person that he or she is.
People who’ve had children know that. They’re there from the beginning unique and unfold with all their personal likes and dislikes, interests and personalities.
* GEB , I’m sorry was meant to mean your saline solution experience. It must have left a scar somehow in some way.
Each time a good is done it pays the bill…
Here is a gloss on Pam Bondi’s public statements and actions regarding reproductive rights and abortion during her tenure as Florida’s Attorney General (2011-2019):
Defended Florida’s abortion restrictions: As Attorney General, Bondi defended Florida’s abortion laws, including a 24-hour waiting period and a requirement that women seeking abortions undergo an ultrasound examination. She argued that these laws were constitutional and aimed to protect women’s health.
Opposed expanding legal protections for LGBTQ+ community: In 2016, after the Orlando Pulse nightclub shooting, Bondi was criticized by CNN’s Anderson Cooper for her past support of a ban on same-sex marriage in Florida. She later expressed support for the LGBTQ+ community, but her initial stance reflected her conservative views on marriage equality.
Challenged Affordable Care Act (ACA): As Attorney General, Bondi was part of a 26-state lawsuit against the ACA, arguing that the individual mandate provision violated the Constitution. Although the lawsuit was unsuccessful, it demonstrated her opposition to the ACA’s reproductive health provisions, including coverage for contraception and abortion services.
Supported anti-human trafficking efforts: Bondi was a strong advocate for combating human trafficking, particularly in the context of prostitution and sex trafficking. While her efforts focused on addressing the broader issue of human exploitation, they did not specifically target reproductive rights or abortion.
Did not take a public stance on Planned Parenthood funding: During her tenure, there were attempts to defund Planned Parenthood in Florida. However, there is no record of Bondi publicly commenting on or taking action regarding these efforts.
@Anonymous: “Here is a gloss on Pam Bondi’s public statements and actions regarding reproductive rights and abortion…”
* ‘Reproductive Rights’ are a fraud invented by Democrat communists to justify elective late term abortions. If they did exist, communists like you would regularly refer the audience to where we can go read them for ourselves. And to see what ‘Reproductive Rights’ men have.
Pam Bondi WILL be your next Attorney General
In France of all places one would think they have a better grasp of history. I guess they are doomed to repeat.
This is what I have been trying to tell you: everyone should be nuked for being so stupid.
Off with their heads!