Now, Interior Minister Nancy Faeser wants the world to know that she is not, as widely claimed, anti-free speech … so she is allegedly cracking down on free speech until people change their minds. It appears that, while the liberal Scholz government may be near collapse, irony is still thriving in Germany.
Faeser’s approach may seem like a variation on a Captain ordering that “the beatings will continue until morale improves.” However, in Germany’s anti-free speech politics, it makes perfect sense. Faeser recently tried and failed to shut down a right-wing publication.
Conservative journalist David Bendels, editor-in-chief of the AfD-aligned DeutschlandKurier, lampooned Faeser by showing a meme of her holding a sign reading, “I hate free speech.” Deutschland-Kurier is aligned with the opposition conservative AfD party.
As if to prove her point, Faeser allegedly unleashed her office on Bendels and threatened him with a criminal prosecution for lampooning her views. The court has already imposed a fine, but according to some reports, jail time is possible.
There is little coverage of the story beyond a few conservative websites. It is, therefore, hard to confirm some key facts given the absence of coverage in the mainstream media. If true, this would seem a major story in using criminal laws to police parodies. I waited for days in the hopes of learning more about this controversy. Yet, there remains virtually no coverage.
The controversy offers an interesting context to explore how we address the problem of fake images and photos on the Internet. There are indeed good-faith concerns on both sides of such parodies.
If the accounts are accurate, the question is how politicians should respond to photo “fakes.” I understand Faeser’s objection if the picture is not marked as a fake or parody image. Ironically, it would be unthinkable for other politicians to hold such a sign. Yet, given Faeser’s history, some could easily conclude she would hold up such a sign with pride. It is “believable” for some familiar with the anti-free speech history of the German left and Faeser in particular.
The minister has an interest in responding to such pictures. The key issue is whether the photo or context makes clear that it is a spoof or satire. That can be difficult with a meme. It is certainly true that, as a public official, she has the ability to use the “bully pulpit” to respond to such parodies in the media. Nevertheless, there must be a recourse for even public officials to address faked images that create a false or damaging impression.
Some are claiming that the “I hate free speech” spoof is being prosecuted ironically as hate speech. That would be a dangerous approach since parody and humor are key areas of political speech.
While the accounts suggest an excessive response, the controversy does show how difficult such questions can be in drawing a line that protects free speech while also allowing for redress for defamation or false light violations.
In the United States, such cases are routinely addressed as civil matters. However, in many other countries, defamation is both a criminal and civil matter. I have long opposed the criminalization of defamation in countries like Italy.
In Hustler Magazine v. Falwell, 485 U.S. 46 (1988), the Supreme Court reversed a lower court’s judgment for intentional infliction of emotional distress against Hustler for a parody of Jerry Falwell, the founder of the Moral Majority and Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia.
The magazine marked a faux Campari ad (from a series on “My First Time) as an “ad parody — not to be taken seriously.” It also listed the ad on the table of contents as “Fiction; Ad and Personality Parody.” Nevertheless, it was a deeply offensive ad that portrayed Falwell talking about his “first time” having sex with his mother in an outhouse.
While Falwell won on the infliction of emotional distress claim at trial, he notably lost on the defamation claim because the Hustler parody could not “reasonably be understood as describing actual facts about [Falwell] or actual events in which [he] participated.” The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit affirmed that verdict.
Writing for a unanimous Court, Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist reversed and rejected the notion that the outrageous character of the depiction could be a basis for liability. He noted that
“‘[o]utrageousness’ in the area of political and social discourse has an inherent subjectiveness about it which would allow a jury to impose liability on the basis of the jurors’ tastes or views, or … their dislike of a particular expression. An ‘outrageousness’ standard thus runs afoul of our long-standing refusal to allow damages to be awarded because the speech in question may have an adverse emotional impact on the audience.”
The Court noted the importance of satire in political discourse.
Again, context was key in Falwell, and it is unclear what the context of the German photo was in conveying the photo as a satire or parody. A meme has less capacity for “context” or content disclaimers. However, if the reports of a criminal prosecution are accurate, the impact could be considerable on the diminishing residue of free speech in Germany.
We discussed how Germany is extending its criminalization of speech to the Internet. Germany imposed a legal regime that would allow fining social networks such as Facebook up to 500,000 euros ($522,000) for each day the platform leaves a “fake news” story up without deleting it. The country fined YouTube in an effort to force the company to remove views that the government considers disinformation on COVID-19.
Germany has also targeted Elon Musk for threatened prosecution if he does not reestablish censorship systems at X.
None of this, mind you, has put a dent in the ranks of actual fascists and haters. Neo-Nazis are holding massive rallies by adopting new symbols and coded words, while Germany arrested a man on a train because he had a Hitler ringtone on his phone.
The impact of these laws was evident in a recent poll of German citizens. Only 18% of Germans feel free to express their opinions in public. 59% of Germans did not even feel free expressing themselves in private among friends. And just 17% felt free to express themselves on the Internet.
The United States has ample protections against defamation and false light without the dangerous addition of criminal penalties. Moreover, the involvement of the government in monitoring and censoring such speech is chilling and unnecessary.
While this may seem biased in favor of our common law system, the controversy over his meme shows why (in my view) such systems are better suited for resolving such controversies.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
So Joe pardoned Hunter.
I think both are scum.
But I would have done the same were I similarly placed.
Not all of us have the stony attributes of a Brutus [ the first one].
The type of pardon is unusual — blanket covering 2014 to 2024. Hunter joined the Burisma board in 2014. So does this mean that Joe didn’t sell out our country for the first 6 years of being VP? That’s nice.
“So does this mean that Joe didn’t sell out our country for the first 6 years of being VP?”
If sales of America from the White House Vice President’s office happened when it’s now outside of the statute of limitations… why issue more blanket pardons than necessary?
The First Felon Bagman Son is now unable to plead the Fifth Amendment…. and in seven weeks the fraudulent Attorney General Merrick Garland will no longer be able to order the DoJ and FBI to hide Biden White House Crime, LLC.
Then we will see if there is a single set of balls when the new Republican controlled congress is seated.
@ Old Airborne,
:
“The First Felon Bagman Son is now unable to plead the Fifth Amendment…”
Very good points. This may open previously closed doors. And lead to where?
@Old Airborne,
Though he may have potential liability for state crimes that may justify his pleading The Fifth.
I was not surprised by the pardon, but Joe’s tone in his statement is galling — protecting poor innocent Hunter from Joe’s nasty, mean DOJ’s persecution! Of course, there’s no mention of how the entire family benefited from Hunter’s misdoings or whether the classified documents lying around the house and garage for years were of interest to Hunter’s clients.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/02/joe-biden-hunter-pardon-statement
In my view, the DOJ waged lawfare against Trump, inventing harms against him, while bending over backwards to treat the Bidens with kid gloves. I was appalled by Garland in particular, and am grateful that McConnell held up his vetting to be a Justice.
Of course. Most people similarly situated would have done the same. Which is why every honest person who expressed an opinion predicted Biden would do so. (I think the probability is significantly greater than 0% that Biden will blanket pardon himself on or before noon on January 20, 2025).
The issue is the flat out lie he repeatedly told swearing he would NOT pardon. The ONLY reason for that lie was to promote the “nobody is above the law” narrative every Democrat and media clown parroted to rationalize the Democrats unjust, politicized lawfare to try to bankrupt and imprison Trump, his family and his associates.
Democrats are VERY bad people. They just are.
OT — No mention of pardons for Joe’s brothers for their roles in the family influence-selling business. Also, no mention of the 22 businesses (shell corporations) that they churned the money received from foreign governments through before disbursing it to the various family members, including minor children. No mention of the 10% for the big guy.
For more information on their family business: https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/
OT: Unlimited pardon for Hunter. If Joe or any other family members are investigated under Trump, Hunter can no longer plead the 5th. And he can be charged for perjury and related process crimes arising out of any investigation.
That would loosely be correct.
But there is a problem – Joe Biden and the Biden family are no longer a target of Trump or Republicans.
To the extent that further inquiry into the Biden’s has merit it is purely to expose the coverup by the DOJ/Deep State.
Republicans need to accept that they have proven the Bidens are corrupt to most people, and move on.
They need to NOT repeat the mistakes of Democrats.
Trump and his administration need to focus on Cleaning house, not punishing Biden or Harris or Clinton.
Sorry John but you are wrong. Did Biden “move on”? If Joe or his brothers committed crimes they should be prosecuted! Remember, no-one is above the law! It isn’t “punishing Biden or Clinton” IT IS JUSTICE FOR PEOPLE THAT COMMITTED CRIMES. Get off of your high horse, I am sick of Republicans looking the other way while Democrats charge any conservative that comes close to committing a crime.
Trump and his administration need to focus on Cleaning house, not punishing Biden or Harris or Clinton.
Completely wrong, John. And it has nothing to do with “getting even”.
The primary focus and objectives for both Trump and the legislative branch GOP has to be getting enough done prior to the beginning of the midterm election campaigns so that Americans can see they got results in the form of addressing their primary concerns about the economy, prices, the tidal waves of Illegal Alien criminality, etc. They have a steep hill in front of them from the first day in office and Democrats are going to do everything they can to defeat achieving any objective. If they don’t show good results by the midterms, it is very likely that Trump’s last two years will be nothing but failing to get anything done. Lose the House in 2026 and expect Trump to be impeached for a third time within weeks.
But there are many, many reasons for following through on the Bidens. None of which is about revenge. If Republicans can’t multitask and do those two separate things at the same time, then they shouldn’t be running for public office.
First, if you want laws and regulations to be obeyed, then violations of those laws must result in the sanctions laid out in those laws, and those sanctions occurring as close to 100% of the time that violations occur. Without a clear deterrent result, you’re just encouraging more criminality in future.
Second, the Biden White House Crime cartel did not operate in a vacuum, with everybody involved having the surname Biden. The most senior levels of bureaucrats in the DoJ, FBI, State Department, CIA, etc have known about it, covered up for it, helped others to hide the criminality, etc. And some in both the DoJ and FBI have committed serious felonies. Many of those people will be at the top of those bureaucracies for another ten years or so if allowed to escape the sanctions for their malfeasance.
There’s other reasons as well. But if you actually want a civil service of bureaucrats who do their jobs as laid out in their job description, and doing so without fear or favor to anyone, then the Biden White House Crime Cartel is where you start tracing back the rot throughout the bureaucracy that deliberately worked to hide it and protect all of the criminals engaged in it.
Doing this WITHIN the boundaries of the law is not the “mistake” the Democrats made. Don’t do it as they did and you won’t get the same hit that they ultimately did.
On a related note of cracking down on free speech and medical opinions:
Jay Bhattacharya and the Vindication of the ‘Fringe’ Scientists
In a 2018 working paper published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, Dr. Bhattacharya raised the question: “Does the NIH fund edge science?” The answer is yes, though less so than in the past. Dr. Bhattacharya found that the NIH increasingly funds researchers who seek to build on more-established ideas rather than those pursuing novel ones.
Wall Street Journal
outdated, medical paradigms hurt medicine as a field but patients as a rule. Fauci’s employment of obsolete paradigms in immunology framed his approach to COVID. He was wrong as the data and USA outcomes have shown. Today he continues his misguided, paradigms of misinformation with his latest opinion piece published last week in Clinical Infectious Diseases journal, the publication of record of the Infectious Diseases Society of America. Fauci should be hanging his head low in shame but here he is sounding sanctimonious.
Memo to Dr Jay Bhattacharya: FIX THIS STAT!!!
Excise this cancer pronto.
HIV/AIDS and COVID-19: Shared Lessons from Two Pandemics
Anthony S Fauci, Gregory K Folkers
Clinical Infectious Diseases,
https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciae585
Published: 27 November 2024
NB: Gregory K Folkers is neither a trained scientist, physician nor medical researcher. He is Fauci’s Chief of Staff at NIAID. There was no reason to include his name on the opinion piece other than for Fauci to CYA
“A graduate of Dartmouth College, Mr. Folkers holds a master’s degree in public health from Johns Hopkins University and a master’s degree in science journalism from Boston University.”
– National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
Estovir, you might care to discover what one studies for an masters in public health.
Davey
You might care to discover when use of the word “an” is appropriate.
Hunter Biden’s lawyers launch apparent 11th-hour bid to land pardon from Dad
Lawyers for scandal-scarred first son Hunter Biden have issued a new public diatribe whining he is the alleged victim of “political prosecutions” — an apparent last-ditch push for his dad to pardon him.
Abbe Lowell, one of Hunter’s top lawyers, dusted off his well-worn claims that the two criminal cases against the 54-year-old disgraced son faced significant outside pressure as Republicans sought to harm his father, President Biden, politically. …
By: Ryan King ~ Dec. 1, 2024
https://nypost.com/2024/12/01/us-news/hunter-bidens-lawyers-launch-apparent-11th-hour-bid-to-land-pardon-from-dad/
Martha Stewart blasts ‘idiots’ at FBI for making her a ‘trophy’ criminal in new documentary
In a new documentary delving into the life and legacy of Martha Stewart, the homemaking master takes a swing at former FBI Director James Comey.
Her comments come during a section of the film that focuses on her federal obstruction of justice trial and five-month stint in prison beginning in 2004 — five years after Stewart, 83, became the first self-made female billionaire in 1999. …
By: Fox News ~ Dec. 1, 2024
https://nypost.com/2024/12/01/us-news/martha-stewart-blasts-idiots-at-fbi-or-making-her-a-trophy-criminal/
[Note: I’d love for Melania Trump to graciously share the position of The First Lady with Martha Stewart,
just to stick-it-in-the-eye of Hillary Clinton and her henchman James Comey. Martha is a far better First Lady than Hillary.]
(Satire)
In Thanksgiving Briefing, Karine Jean-Pierre Thanks The Press For Regurgitating White House Propaganda The Last Four Years
By: Joshua Monnington ~ November 28, 2024
[Link] thefederalist.com/2024/11/28/in-thanksgiving-briefing-karine-jean-pierre-thanks-the-press-for-regurgitating-white-house-propaganda-the-last-four-years/
JT was outraged that Hunter Biden just maybe, possibly, could have, talked to his dad about all his money he was making from foreign countries.
And where is the rage from JT over trumps pick of family members to be in his government?
Oh yea, the same place we can find Biden’s impeachment, missing.
Thanks JT, too bad you weren’t picked for AG, you obviously did not kiss the ring enough times.
Lets see using access to Government power to profit personally is in the same world as using government power to bring about peace and prosperity.
You live in a strange world.
Jared Kushner did something no one has managed since Carter – a peace deal in the mid east – which the Biden’s promptly F#$K’d up.
Hunter Biden downed in coke and prostitutes and guns and fast cars and diamonds
Yeah Real parity there – NOT!
Prof. Turley
You are getting too far into the legal weeds.
While I MAY matter according to the law in some countries whether it is absolutely clear that something is Fake or a parody.
That is not how it SHOULD be.
New York Times V Sullivan came about because Southern local governments were weaponizing defamation against citizens – specifically the civil rights movement over politics.
This was lawfare – just as the nonsense we see today.
Some time ago the Supreme court struct down Beef Defamation laws. It is increasingly clear that the benefits of Defamation laws are far outweighed by their potential for abuse.
The RIGHT solution to bad speech is MORE speech – not enforced silence.
Not through censorship. Not through defamation laws.
While there are a few intances of defamation that cry out for punishment
The fact remains that the potential for abuse has become the reality of abuse.
We saw in the last election that voters have come to disregard the MSM – because they lie constantly.
THAT is the correct punishment for lying. Not lawfare.
Better that one person be lied about publicly than 10 people be destroyed, silenced and others be placed in fear of being silenced by defamation claims.
Time for SCOTUS to find defamation laws a violation of the first amendment.
Time for SCOTUS to find defamation laws a violation of the first amendment.
Only after public challenges to a duel and dueling are ruled to be once again perfectly legal.
That’s one way to make people accountable for their mouth and their keyboard… not merely hoping that their will be sufficient censure and deprecation to make slander and libel to ruin somebody’s life not worth it.
THAT is the correct punishment for that kind of lying.
“We have learned something important since the days that I served in Vietnam.”
– Senator Richard Blumenthal.
__________________________________
What’s the correct punishment for stealing the ground-pounding or airborne valor of those who paid the price?
* The people REELECTED. him, Ripley.
Why do child molesting Airsoft Gravy Seal Snipers that were allowed to do a Hunter Biden resignation because the military didn’t want the publicity of a court martial keep alleging stolen valor when there isn’t a single mention of anything military in each day’s posts? Is the Airsoft Gravy Seal another Dennis McIntyre?
It appears that Airsoft Gravy Seal Snipers didn’t pay a big enough price by being allowed to resign to spare the military more Hunter Biden embarrassment of another pedo in uniform.
Your held accountable by the loss of trust.
Who here would trust Gigi, or George or Svelaz, or Dennis ?
The MSM are tanking ratings are dropping add revenue is declining.
This is how the free market punished bad speech.
The correct punishment for lying – is that people no longer trust you.
* Your point after 8 years of freedom of speech and press were a fire hose spewing lies about political opponents and policies? The press was engaged as a double whammy. Celebrities engaged. Government prosecutions engaged. Government weaponized against “the people”.
What’s your point? Sullivan? Malice? What more is needed?
If Hustler magazine can now be sold on supermarket racks why not child porn in school libraries? Commerce engaged? Is that censorship?
Trump was nearly murdered. Would that be malice?
Sum up your point succinctly.
Free speech results in lots of lies.
Absolutely the press spread those – but it is both evident via poll and evident from the election that people do not trust those who have been lying to them repeatedly.
That is a really big deal.
Comcast does not want to be associated with MSNBC and is getting ready to sell it.
Bezos has told WaPo reporters – Make money or get out.
How do you make money – certainly not buy constantly lying so that 2% of your former audience continues to read and beleive you.
Germany can have whatever stupid laws it wishes.
But the US has no need to do business with Germany.
I am hoping/expecting that Trump will be stepping in on this strongly as soon as he takes office.
I expect him to say to Germany, Brazil, France, the UK and others, that we are UNHAPPY about the censorship they engage in of their own citizens,
But that is NOT our business, but that if they censor americans, or if they attempt to FORCE american businesses to censor ANYONE – including their own people posting through US companies, that there WILL be consequences.
I doubt it will take more than one phone call to end this stupidity.
Germany, France, the UK, Brazil, …. are all free to use their own courts to enforce stupid laws against their own citizens and companies.
BUT NOT US companies or citizens.
They may not censor US citizens. They may not USE US companies to censor anyone – even their own people.
Americans are NOT tools to allow them to impose their own idiocy.
* And WHAT will the US send those nations? Child porn and lgbt videos? Maybe hunter biden videos via MTG? oh that’s right, HE PUBLISHED THEM.
Absurd
America must exit NATO until all member nations adopt the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the American Founders, obviously excluding Karl Marx and Lincoln’s successors’ antithetical communist “Reconstruction Amendments.”
Amen!
I second this
What does the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments have to do with communism?
* A comparison between Hustler/Falwell and France’s Charlie/ Mohammed parody is there. Falwell used the legal route provided in the US and the writers were shot to death in the EU.
The conditions are different in the EU. Obviously defamation suits are better than murder. Simply can’t make a generalization.
* By contrast Germany’s government is thwarting free political speech and not religious speech.
In the US are there redresses for political defamation regarding free speech and officials elected and appointed including the president? The US has a poor record with this and assassination aka murder.
Perhaps the US has just been through a period of DOJ and lawfare ending in the attempted murder.
Generally, a peaceful means such as civil lawsuits is the path. Public persons can be defamed freely according to some opinion of SCOTUS and the malice idea.
Perhaps Germany’s government really doesn’t have free speech nor does the US bureaucratic government. It’s debatable.
* Overall it’s the rise of the 3rd world. It’s all perversity, oppression, blood and gore, obscenity unplugged, drugs, wars, invasion, superstition, theft, murder and lies. Welcome to the 3rd world.
Move to the countryside, plant a food garden, chop wood and leave the net behind. Chicken coop, too. At least there’s eggs and a Shotgun to kill off predators, raccoons, possums, wolves, and cats for rats and mice.
How fun.
Already live in the country. Got a garden and 4 season greenhouse and grow enough to have fresh vegetables year round. The neighbor has the chickens so we have an arrangement. Who doesn’t own at least a shotgun? Anyways, a .22 is far better for varmint sized pests not that we have to worry. The next door neighbor trains and desensitizes aggressive dogs, so the scent tends to keep everything away.
* yeah, I don’t want to miss.
* OH, I forgot to mention I’ll be praying the entire time.
* doubt I could shoot the cute little critters, granny.
* ” overall it’s a 3rd world….”
And that’s the best they have to offer.
A bit of history just for context. Now the question is; Is this the Marxist Germans sneaking back in, or the National Socialist Germans making a comeback? We need a playbook.
Someone said we need Mark Twain back. True, I’ve always enjoyed his dry witted humor if not the prophetic truisms of his quotes.
History does not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.
–Mark Twain
Radio Crimes! Lest you hear something you weren’t supposed to. (Think Internet today).
German History in Documents and Images
https://germanhistorydocs.org/en/nazi-germany-1933-1945/decree-by-the-ministerial-council-for-the-defense-of-the-reich-on-extraordinary-radio-measures-dated-september-1-1939-issued-september-7-1939.pdf
“Decree on “Extraordinary Radio Measures” (September
1939)”
Excerpt:
“When war broke out, foreign broadcasts—unlike the foreign press—could not be silenced with a simple ban. So, on the day the war began, Goebbels composed a draft law that made listening to foreign broadcasts and spreading any information contained in them punishable as a “radio crime.”
Date of issue: September 7, 1939
Decree on Extraordinary Radio Measures
From September 1, 1939
“In modern warfare the opponent does not only use military means but also methods which influence national morale and are intended to undermine it. One of these methods is radio. Every word which the opponent broadcasts is of course a lie and intended to damage the German people. The Reich Government knows that the German people are aware of this danger and, therefore, expects that every German will have the sense of responsibility to consider it a matter of decency to refrain from listening to
foreign broadcasts.”
For those national comrades who lack this sense of responsibility the Ministerial Council for the Defense of the Reich has issued the following decree.
§ 1
It is forbidden to listen to foreign broadcasts with intent. Contraventions will be punished with penal servitude. A prison sentence may be substituted in less serious cases. The equipment used will be confiscated.
§ 2
Anyone who intentionally disseminates information gleaned from foreign radio stations which is liable to threaten the defensive capability of the German nation will be punished with penal servitude, and in particularly serious cases, with death.
§ 3
The regulations of this decree do not apply to actions which are carried out in the performance of a duty.
§ 4
The Special Courts are responsible for dealing with and passing judgment upon contraventions of this decree.
§ 5
Prosecutions under §§1 & 2 are only to be initiated by the agencies of the State Police [Gestapo].
§ 6
The Reich Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda will issue the requisite legal and administrative regulations for the implementation of this decree and, insofar as penal regulations are concerned, will do so in consultation with the Reich Minister of Justice.
Chairman of the Ministerial Council for the Defense of the Reich
Göring, General Field Marshall
Deputy of the Führer
R. Heß
Plenipotentiary for Reich Administration
Frick
Reich Minister and Chief of the Reich Chancellery
Dr. Lammers
I’m beginning to wonder why we wasted so much blood and treasure on saving the sorry *sses of these progressive fools. We should have just let either the National Socialist Party of the USSR have at them since it appears that is their end goal anyway. I say – withdraw from NATO and let the lot of them deal with the utter mess they have made of Europe.
I don’t think the Germans have gotten over World War Two yet. The Japanese have. They act like a modern first world country. It seems like the Germans are still trying to find themselves.
“The Japanese have. They act like a modern first world country.”
I think the Japanese harbor some peripheral lingering affects from Nagasaki and Hiroshima, but by the same token, those events were so catastrophic that they had to pretty much rebuild a destroyed society from scratch, rather than try to repair one that was broken. Seems like the results of starting over were superior.
#6 — I read a history of Japan before traveling there for 2 weeks.
I opine that the difference is that for the first time ever Japan was defeated. So what was completely changed was the attitude, eliminating militarism.
But now they have an aircraft carrier named the Akagai. Believe they had one named that before.
* the right lost the war…
Time and time again Harris stepped in to lay hands on 1 billion in campaign money and NOT to win. Be careful they might return worse than before. Congress is an embarrassment …RICO Cortez and the rest.