Late Saturday, D.C. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson ruled that President Donald Trump violated federal law in firing Hampton Dellinger, head of the Office of Special Counsel. Jackson’s decision is forceful, well-written, and challengeable under existing precedent. Indeed, it may have just set up an appeal that both presidents and professors have long waited for to reinforce presidential powers.
Appointed by President Joe Biden (and son of the respected liberal scholar and Clinton acting Solicitor General Walter Dellinger), Hampton Dellinger was confirmed by the Senate for a five-year term beginning in 2024. He sued after receiving an email with a perfunctory termination notice shortly after the inauguration. The various inspector generals were also terminated and, at the time, some of us raised concerns over compliance with underlying federal statutes. The issue was not likely the outcome but the process for such removals. However, while many objected to the Helter-Skelter approach to such terminations, there may be a method to this madness. Indeed, this ruling may be precisely what the Trump Administration is seeking as the foundation for a major new constitutional challenge.
Dellinger’s claim is based in large part on the Civil Service Reform Act, which provides that the Special Counsel “may be removed by the President only for inefficiency, neglect of duty, or malfeasance in office.” 5 U.S.C. 1211(b). The notice gave none of these grounds for the termination even though “inefficiency” and “neglect” are a fairly ambiguous and malleable rationale.
Judge Jackson held that the firing clearly violated the controlling statute and that the Act itself was constitutional. She emphasized that, while there are grounds for presidents to claim the power for at-will terminations, those cases have tended to be offices that carry out executive functions. Jackson described the Special Counsel as an essentially harmless office vis-à-vis executive authority: “Special Counsel acts as an ombudsman, a clearinghouse for complaints and allegations, and after looking into them, he can encourage the parties to resolve the matter among themselves. But if that fails, he must direct them elsewhere.” She noted that earlier cases supporting the executive power to fire executive officials involved “restrictions on the President’s ability to remove an official who wields significant executive authority. The Special Counsel simply does not.”
Judge Jackson has a good-faith reliance on her narrow reading of existing precedent. Moreover, she is right that this is not in compliance with the statute. If the statute holds (and it might), the Administration will have to start the process again.
However, the precedent is far from conclusive and brushes over some striking conflicts with prior rulings of the Supreme Court. Jackson insisted that a contrary ruling would undermine the very point of the Special Counsel office: “its independence,” However, that is the very point that has irked both Democratic and Republican presidents for years.
In 1978, President Jimmy Carter objected on these grounds. The Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel explained that, “[b]ecause the Special Counsel [would] be performing largely executive functions, the Congress [could] not restrict the President’s power to remove him.” 2 Op. O.L.C. 120, 121 (1978).
It is unclear whether the current Supreme Court would agree with an exception for minor or de minimus intrusions. Many scholars and judges believe that a president either has Article II authority to fire executive branch officials or he does not.
Notably, there are only four single agency heads who were given tenure protection by Congress: the Directors of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), the Commissioner of Social Security, and the Special Counsel. In 2020, the Court ruled in Seila Law LLC v. CFPB that Congress had violated Article II by granting tenure protection to that sole agency head: “The CFPB’s single-Director structure contravene[d] [Article II’s] carefully calibrated system by vesting significant governmental power in the hands of a single individual accountable to no one.” Id. at 224.
Then, in 2021, in Collins v. Yellen, the Court rejected the same claim as to the director of the FHFA. That opinion came with directly opposing language to Jackson’s rationale. The Court found that Seila Law to be “all but dispositive” on the question and expressly rejected the argument that this would change depending upon “the nature and breadth of an agency’s authority.” The Court held that the “[c]ourts are not well-suited to weigh the relative importance of the regulatory and enforcement authorities of disparate agencies.”
Given these cases, lower courts clearly got the message – a message amplified by President Joe Biden who appointed Dellinger. On the third “independent” position, the Commissioner of Social Security, Biden’s Office of Legal Counsel declared that “the best reading of Collins and Seila Law” is that “the President need not heed the Commissioner’s statutory tenure protection.” Two circuits (the Ninth and Eleventh) have ruled consistently with that interpretation in favor of executive authority to remove such officers.
Ultimately, Dellinger can be removed even if this decision stands. The Trump Administration could have easily cited a basis like inefficiency or neglect. While I know of no such allegations against Dellinger, the Administration may believe that it has a basis for such allegations. The law is vague on how or whether such an allegation can be contested.
The question is why it decided not to do so. Clearly, it could just be a chainsaw approach to cutting positions. However, it may also reflect a desire for some in the Administration to challenge lingering case law limiting executive powers. In other words, they seem to be spoiling for a fight.
The reason may be Humphrey’s Executor v. United States (1935), which established the right of Congress to create independent agencies. It found that Congress could, without violating Article II powers, provide tenure protection to “a multimember body of experts, balanced along partisan lines, that performed legislative and judicial functions and was said not to exercise any executive power.” The Court in cases like Seila Law cited that precedent for one of the exceptions to executive power. It also cited an exception for giving tenure protection to “certain inferior officers with narrowly defined duties,” under Morrison v. Olson (1988). Jackson cited both cases and those exceptions in shoehorning the Special Counsel into a narrow band of quasi-executive positions.
What may be overlooked in the filings of the Administration before the Supreme Court in the Dellinger case was this line in a footnote: “Humphrey’s Executor appears to have misapprehended the powers of “the New Deal-era [Federal Trade Commission]” and misclassified those powers as primarily legislative and judicial.” It went on to suggest that the case is not only wrongly decided but that the Justice Department “intends to urge this Court to overrule that decision.”
Described by the Court as “the outer-most constitutional limits of permissible congressional restrictions on the President’s removal power,” the Trump Administration appears set to try to redraw that constitutional map.
That is why Jackson’s opinion may not only be expected but welcomed by the Trump Administration. It is hunting for bigger game than Dellinger and Judge Jackson just gave it a clear shot for the Supreme Court.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
N.B.: A version of this column also appeared on Fox.com
Here’s Dennis McIntyre, once again wrapping propaganda and Democrat lies around a tiny germ of actual truth: Jonathan: In 2024 Biden appointed Hampton Dellinger to a 5 year term as head of the OSC. As special counsel Dellinger was responsible for enforcing whistleblower and civil service statutes designed to protect federal employees from political reprisals.
Dennis, Dellinger didn’t protect a SINGLE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WHISTLEBLOWER who came forward to expose how Biden’s protectors in the IRS, FBI, and DOJ were hiding the Biden White House crime syndicate, preventing tax fraud investigation and charges, criminal spying on Americans, etc. NOT A SINGLE ONE.
You know that as well as anybody else, Dennis. You posted here to announce your celebration of how they were targeted, their careers destroyed, and many were fired.
So you know exactly why Dellinger should be fired for deliberately refusing to do his job as head of the OSC.
Where Hampton Dellinger is concerned, in his position as the head of the Office of Special Counsel, I imagine courts hearing these appeals from Dellinger seize on the wording used to terminate him as an employee.
Dellinger himself made public statements that one of his primary jobs as head of the OSC is to defend federal whistleblowers from reprisals and dismissal when they came forward to expose wrongdoing and criminality.
So aside from Dellinger’s blatant Democrat bias and antipathy as he acted as an unelected Democrat politician in his position as head of the OSC, there is his job performance for the American public and our courts to consider.
A succession of federal whistleblowers came forward from the IRS, DoJ and FBI They exposed how they were being prevented from investigating both of the Bidens, their business partners, and their ChiCom and Russian customers. They exposed how the FBI was illegally spying on Americans, being ordered NOT to bring criminal indictments against those in identity politics groups, being ordered to target Americans for protesting at school board meetings, etc.
All of those whistleblowers were swiftly targeted by the agencies they came from. Security clearances were revoked, they were transferred, investigated, and in some cases fired.
Dellinger, their alleged protector as head of the OSC, did absolutely nothing to prevent any of this being done to these federal whistleblowers.
If a single good reason is sufficient for Trump to fire Hampton Dellinger, surely that is it. And it doesn’t require going into the weeds with a deep legal analysis. The man deliberately and wrongfully chose to NOT do his job as his position required him to do.
Did Trump’s administration decide not to mention any of that in whatever documentation they served Dellinger to announce he had been fired?
She was reversed by the Court of Appeals.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2025/03/05/dc-appellate-court-reverses-dc-judge-berman-jackson-president-trump-has-authority-to-remove-special-counsel-dellinger
Amy Berman Jackson and Ray Epps in 2028! Only THEY can save America and preserve and protect our esteemed, holy, and sacred Corrupt Deep State Democracy. And, yes, I said “Corrupt.” Corruption is essential to ensuring integrity and justice in Government and in the Courts.
Amy Berman Jackson and Ray Epps in 2028! In your heart, you KNOW I’m right!
If there is strength in numbers,
then the Republican party has just gotten a little weaker.
I’m out.
Well ….bye!
Well then, good riddance to bad rubbish. Turley, the author of the article is an illiterate moron. He thinks de minimis is de “minimus” and that Res ipsa loquitur means “The thing itself speaks.” It doesn’t. It means The thing speaks for itself, as the a of ipsa is long, indicating that it is in the dative, not the nominative, case. In the outbreak of the kindergarten that is America today, uneducated morons like Turley have pulpits and parade their illiteracy before the public at random and at will. It can only be described as pathetic.
look up the meaning of those Latin terms in Black’s Law dictionary, clown.
Trying hard to believe you were even one of Never Trumpers, as you announce your alleged exist from the GOP.
Kind of has a false flag stench to it.
In our sacred, holy Leftist system of Democracy, only the Deep State judiciary can make staffing decisions about who may be fired in government and under what circumstances. The Constitution is irrelevant to such matters under our esteemed Deep State-controlled Democracy. Only the Deep State Leftists know what staffing decisions are best to preserve and protect our Deep State-controlled Leftist Democracy. And who are we to question their wisdom. Furthermore, any troublemakers who question or criticize any decisions by the judiciary under our esteemed and sacred Deep State-controlled Democracy are anti-American and must be dealt with harshly.
Art. III TRUMP (s) Art. II
Art. III sec. 1: Ask yourself can the “congress” create an “inferior court” that has jurisdiction over the Supreme Court? It can no more create an “inferior court” having jurisdiction over the other co-equal branch of government, The Executive!
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US judge declares Trump’s firing of watchdog agency head illegal
“… Jackson said in her ruling Saturday, opens new tab that upholding Trump’s ability to fire Dellinger would give him “a constitutional license to bully officials in the executive branch into doing his will.” …”
By: David Shepardson and Nate Raymond ~ March 3, 2025
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-judge-declares-trumps-firing-watchdog-agency-head-illegal-2025-03-02/
Ruling (.pdf)
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/gkvljwbwkvb/03012025dellinger.pdf
“a constitutional license to bully officials in the executive branch into doing his will.” What the hell dose she think Biden (with HRC + Obama) was doing for 4 years?
The president has the power to bully other executive officials into doing his will.
Jacksons statement is the most absurdly constitutionally ignorant statement possible.
The executive power of the United states is vested in the president.
Remaining powers in the US vest in Congress or the Supreme court.
Nowhere in the constitution is any other person, department or body given ANY power.
The entire government is directly answerable to either the president ,congress or the supreme court.
All of govenrment is INDIRECTLY answerable to all 3.
There is lots of discussions of “independence” – but nowhere in the constitution does any concept of any power independent of direct control by either the president, congress of the courts exist.
Frank, Who & What Agency didn’t violate the Hatch Act under Joe Biden’s Term?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act#Agencies_and_employees_prohibited_from_engaging_in_partisan_political_activity
Know wonder Trump has to fire all of the previous Administration.
George, We need to see ‘The List’ again.
To an average person, I suspect that the constitutional matter at hand is whether the president permanently sacrificed his inherent executive power to fire this specific employee … or whether the statute, signed by the incumbent president at that time was only a temporary agreement to honor the statute, with no constitutional relevance at all.
Jimmy Carter’s 1978 explanation seems very clear and reasonable regarding that matter. Bickering about due process may be relevant and even vital in a civil dispute over alleged financial damages from a firing. But the constitutional matter seems clear and self-evident: a statute written by the Legislative Branch does not amend the Constitution, and cannot alter the powers of the Executive Branch.
Gstreet,
Carter is correct and SCOTUS decisions back to a few years after the constitution was ratified confirm that.
You can not amend the constitution by legislation.
Congress can by law constrain the presidents power to exercise powers that are legislative powers delegated to the executive.
It can not by law constrain executive powers given the president by the constitution.
This is why in a DIFFERENT decision Judge ABJ found that neither the courts nor Congress could actually constrain a presidents ability to take whatever whitehouse documents he choose with him as he left the presidency. Because the control of WH documents AND determinations regarding their classified status were PURE executive functions. The same is true of hiring and firing.
I would further note – there is lots of talk and even law regarding independence within the executive.
But neither the constitution nor reality recognize such independence. Every part of Government is DIRECTLY answerable to either the president, the Supreme court, or congress. There is no such thing as an “independent agency” nor would anyone rational want there to be some unelected agency without direct constraints by one of the actual branches of our government.
There are “traditions” of independence, there is even some legislation on independence.
But these are all constitutionally NULL.
There are good reasons why Presidents should not meddle in the actions of subordinate agencies.
But there are occasionally good reasons that they must.
I would further note that While Trump – as well as most every president since Nixon has sought to restore presidential power over the executive,
and I think Trump is likely to succeed.
We are not looking for an imperial president and the way to avoid that is for congress to restore its powers too.
Congress has delegated substantial legislative powers to the executive. Regulation as an example is a LEGISLATIVE function., not an executive one.
Just as the president should have his executive powers restored – Congress should have its legislative powers restored.
BOTH of these diminish the power of unelected bureacrats
#74. Seila applies
Volodymyr Zelenskyy must resign.
Ukraine must hold democratic elections.
Zelenskyy has refused to negotiate an end to the terrible Russian war in Ukraine or even to negotiate a ceasefire.
The people of Ukraine must speak on continuing or ending the war—on negotiating or fighting endlessly.
In the not-too-distant past, so-called democratic Americans were vociferously against war.
They were radically against any government that was pro-war.
Now that President Trump wants peace and wants to negotiate an end to the death and destruction, Zelenskyy pulls an ambush and sabotages any chance for peace (were a former president, 51 former intelligence officials, and the “Five Eyes” involved in that trap?).
Zelenskyy has insulted America and Americans and refused to appropriately apologize to their President.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy must resign, or America must resign from the war effort.
Zelenskyy is the democratically elected president of Ukraine— unlike Trump, he didn’t have to lie to get elected, and, unlike Trump, he enjoys widespread support among his people. Trump wants to be the big hero— he’s already said that Ukraine has to let Putin keep the territory he stole and that Ukraine has to give the US mineral rights. And he wants Zelenskyy to grovel and kiss his enormous axx while Trump publicly insults him—all a show for Putin—but it backfired and Trump showed the world yet another example of his pettiness and need to bully people.
And, when MAGA media repeats Trump’s claim that Zelenskyy doesn’t want peace — they are lying. Zelenskyy wanted security assurances in addition to a ceasefire—because Putin cannot be trusted.
The American people overwhelmingly support aid to Ukraine and security assurances. Trump is just trying to pay back Putin for helping him cheat his way into office in 2016.
This is a complex subject, but Zelensky is not an angel and after watching hours of the EU summit, his hour and a half long interview with the press and reading a great deal from many sources, I am coming to a different conclusion about Zelensky. His suspended elections in the name of war. He has shut down churches, not only the Russian Orthodox Church but also the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Protestant Churches, Catholic Churches. He wants war and will continue until Ukraine is nothing but rubble. Now, there are 1,500,000 dead, wounded and missing, thousands of structures demolished and 64% of the grid destroyed. There are only three Soviet Nuclear Plants providing energy for the whole country. 10.5 million Ukrainians have left the country to live in other places in Europe and around the world. There is deep corruption, graft, and theft of allied support. Some of these weapons have made their way into the hands of adversaries. Those who “stand with Ukraine” will never send one of their precious children to fight in that war. War is hell. War is to be avoided at all costs and negotiated peace should always be the primary goal of and warring nations.
Meanwhile, the E.U. leaders play at supporting the Ukraine effort. However, they are still buying Russian Coal, LNG, and Oil from Russia. Before the war, they purchased 21.9 BN Euros of Fossil Fuels. The first year of the war, they purchased 356BN, second year 250 BN and last year they purchased 242 BN. Russia’s EU fossil fuel sales are down only 8%.
I truly feel for the Ukrainian people, but it has become clear to me that Zelensky has become irrational. He takes out his opponents. He censors news. He wants an unconditional surrender with Russia? They are a nuclear power. Yes, he has inflicted a great deal of harm and has held them back in conventional warfare and with their drones. However, Russia has a very long history of war and they start slow and eventually the grind their opponents into oblivion.
I remember when I first moved to Europe to go to school, I traveled around for four months. In 1975 we drove from Hamburg to the DDR. That meant going through Checkpoint Alpha, Checkpoint Bravo and finally went through Checkpoint Charlie. I spent the whole day and well into the evening in East Berlin, behind the wall. Russian soldiers were everywhere in the DDR (Berlin was deep inside the DDR) and you had to go into a communist country to get to West Berlin (American Sector). Russians checked us at every point. While in Berlin, much of it was still bombed out from the final destruction of World War II. The Soviets destroyed that city and turned it into rubble. There were over 3000 metric tons of rubble for every man, woman and child. It was something I will never forget.
The point of the negotiations is to get the various parties to the table and find out what they need to see happen so that the fighting will stop. It is grueling and complex process and one that will require both sides to give up something. But look at history. Vietnam was our enemy and now they are a partner. Time heals the wounds. Japan and German were my father’s enemies. My father was in the South Pacific (PTO) during World War II. Specifically in Guadalcanal.
Zelensky is small potatoes on the world stage and his significance will be remembered as a footnote. There are much bigger fish to fry. China is our biggest external threat and the biggest threat to with West. Zelensky’s rudeness and recalcitrance is a temporary impediment of the larger diplomatic picture. The goal to delicately separate Russia’s ties with China and the PRC. If that can be done, it bides well for the west. If the EU postures (and that is all they can do) and manages to get themselves squarely in a war with Russia, the the PRC will step in and will control the lion’s share of energy and rare earth minerals. Then, the west will be facing a fierce and blood thirsty adversary. That will be a war we cannot easily win.
Ukraine has been part of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union for most of the past 200 years. It has only been since 1991 that they have declared their independence on 24 August 1991. So, Russian has been a principal language and its culture intertwined for eons. Now the citizens face a binary choice. It is not as simple as it seems. One need only ask, “Why is Ukraine not part of the E.U.?” The answer is telling.
I put 21.9 BN for the amount before the war. What should have been was 264BN. The larger numbers are Russian Oil Exports. What should be listed is that Europe spends 21.9BN on Russian Fossil fuels per year even though there is a sanction. In contrast, they have provided 18.7BN Euros in support for Ukraine. That means they spend more on Russian fossil fuels per year than they do on support of Ukraine.
Also, Britain, once the great sea power, cannot put a blue water navy to sea.
They will talk, have a nice brunch, drink some wine and make flow charts.
E.M. You make many good points. You clearly have a detailed grasp of the overall situation.
Gigi has a heart of stone. She and her fellow Trump-haters would love to see tens of thousands more Ukrainian deaths just so little Z man can be rude to big bad Trump, the very person from whom Z man is begging for money. To them, big bad Trump is a bully (for seeking peace and trying not to throw away our hard earned tax dollars), and it is worth thousands of Russian and Ukrainian lives to be needlessly snuffed out just so Trump can be stood up to. Gigi and people like her have diseased minds and hearts of stone.
Old man, goo goo wants Europe destroyed. Douglas Murray is a voice whistling in the wind.
Since June 2024, Putin has been very clear about his war objectives at this point. They include no NATO, accepting that five regions are now Russia, neutrality, protection of Russian language. Lavrov has recently objected to NATO member peacekeepers. Negotiations might reveal if there is any possibility of compromise on these points. It is inconceivable that the US will give any guarantees that could lead to direct war with Russia.
Ukraine has lost the war. The longer it goes on the more territory, infrastructure and people it will lose. Zelensky has not accepted this reality. Nor have most European leaders. But this outcome was apparent to many of us from before the war began. It is why we have such contempt for Biden, Blinken, Sullivan, Nuland and the uniparty, who ignored the obvious and refused to negotiate a settlement in late 2021 and then resisted the one initialed in Spring 2022.
Where is our wonderful UN in these negotiations? If Russia objects to NATO peacekeepers, offer help from UN members in Africa or South America? Israel? Mexico?
The UN is a failure where too many despots make a lot of noise. They failed as peacekeepers all over, including Israel. Not only that, but UN agencies participated on Oct 7 and took hostages.
#74. Put it to rest. The USA has no young men to spare and no money to spare.
Europe is a tragedy.
Thank you, EM, for sharing these most interesting points. Pity we can’t read something like this in the MSM. The Euros are useless. They talk a big game, but at the end of the day, they are feckless. And you are spot on about Ukraine supporters. They too talk a big game, but would never go themselves or send a loved one to spill blood for that cause. Reminds me of those who live cushy lives in America and elsewhere in the West whilst protesting for Hamas. They would never go themselves to fight.
EM, thank you for saying what should be said and thought about.
We can thank the Democrats for uniting China and Russia.
lol where do you get this nonsense? he would lose an election held today and like tons of Eastern European strong men has continuously cancelled elections for “martial law” (you wouldn’t follow martial law if declared by a republican and would be screeching about how it’s destroying democracy). Funny how during the civil war elections were still held hmmm He will flee the country and be paraded out at international events until people stop caring
Gigi,
Zelensky is a man trying to save his country – he does whatever it takes – that includes lying.
It also includes using violence to conscript other Ukrainians to fight.
Trump is also a man trying to save his country – from idiots like you
We are in a serious mess right now – of YOUR making.
4 years ago – the world was at peace – now war is everywhere.
God forbid Biden had actually been re-elected – the risk of a nuclear confrontation with Russia would have been high.
You, the left, Biden Blundered.
You are ranting about Trump, but the FACT is that You, the left, Biden screwed up.
You wanted credit for dispatching Putin finally.
And you FAILED.
While Russia will eventually collapse – as a result of problems that have nothing to do with this war – and wiser people would have just let nature take its course. You struck at Putin and you FAILED.
If Biden had been re-elected – what would have come next ? Nukes ?
There is only one thing the west has left in its arsenal short of nuclear war to stop Putin – if Putin wishes to continue.
And that is boots on the ground.
So What is it that you, Biden, the left would have done next ?
Would you have spent another 300B dragging the inevitable collapse of Ukraine out even further – with even more possibly millions dead ?
Or would you have crossed another red line and hoped that Putin did not respond with Nukes – or the american people did not impeach you ?
Your an idiot – You Biden, The left started something that you had no idea how to finish.
And that is just ONE of the messes that you have made.
Turns out your jobs numbers for the past 4 years are all essentially fraudulent – nearly all the increase in employment has been new government jobs or illegal immigrants.
You have repeatedly told us how great the Biden economy was. But the increase in GDP is LESS than the increase in debt – in otherwords ALL the growth is borrowed. There is no REAL growth.
Worse than that – if you adjust for inflation – there was little or no growth – only growth in Debt.
Arguably we have been in recession for atleast 3 of the past 4 years.
Worse still the Fed’s efforts to curb inflation failed – again because of way too much debt fueled spending.
Trump did not lie top get elected – NO ONE BELEIVES YOU.
Repairing the mess you made is going to be HARD.
Neither I no many american voters are all that sure that Trump can do it.
What we were absolutely sure of through 2024 was that Democrats COULD NOT DO IT.
That they would just make everything WORSE.
You rant about Trump’s alleged lies – but nothing that comes from you has ever been truth.
Nothing that comes from those you support has been truth.
One of the things that DOGE is uncovering is massive political corruption.
Millions to the Clinton Foundation. Billions to Stacy Abrahms organizations.
Millions to Sen. Whitehouse’s wife.
Millions to terrorists.
Every single direction we turn there is more absolutely idiotic nonsense going on.
All you those YOU claim as your hero’s.
You keep talking about Cults – But YOU are the one living in a cult – a corrupt cult.
No Gigi, The American people do NOT overwhelmingly support Ukraine aid and security assurances – because those are more than Words.
When you say people support aide to Ukraine – what you are ACTUALLY saying is people support giving Ukraine OTHER PEOPLES MONEY. \If the american people wanted to give aide to Ukraine – each and everyone is free to do so right now.
No the American people do NOT support security guarantees for Ukraine – because what a security guarantee means is sending US soldiers to Ukraine to fight and die. It also means risking a nuclear war that would kill 300M people in the first 8 hours and 3B people within a year.
Those of you on the left CONSTANTLY play word games. Unless you are prepared to send money to Ukraine yourself or see your own taxes go up $1000/yr – then you do NOT support Aide to Ukraine.
Unless you are prepared to send US troops – possibly your own sons and daughter to Ukraine – you do not support security guarantees.
Those words MEAN something.
Beyond that you are just plain stupid. Americans MIGHT support aide to Ukraine – if it would result in Putin’s defeat.
But it will not. The US has spent $184B on Ukraine. We have sent F16’s and Patriots, and Himars and M1A1’s and Starlinks, and provided massive targeting support, and Ukraine is slowly losing a war of attrition. They are fighting bravely and they are inflicting 3 times the casualties on Russia that they are taking themselves. To prevail they need to inflict 5 times the casualties they are taking.
To prevail they must be able to gain and hold ground. But for a small incursion into Kursk they have been unable to mount any offensive,
and there is a great likelyhood that the Kursk incursion will be closed shortly.
Most americans would like to see Putin defeated. But that is not happening and the only way that it will requires the US or Europe to send Troops.
And no country in the world has offered to send troops.
Thge US has been burning through stockpiles of weapons to support Ukraine. It is likely we are out or very nearly out of 155mm shells.
I beleive we have upped production to 20,000 a month – Ukraine needs 200,000 a month Russia is going through something like 1M a month, but between their own manufacturing and that of North Korea they are keeping up.
The US can increase production of 155mm shells – but doing so requires building more factories and equipment and hiring more people.
All of which will become immediately useless the moment this is over. US 15mm shell manufacturers are NOT going to invest capital to build more plants. Because the long term US needs are only about 8.000 shells a month and we will drop back to that the moment the war is over.
And this is just ONE logistical problem.
These problems are not unsolveable. In an actual war between the US and Russia – we would solve them.
But we are not.
Next – the Russia Ukraine war is not all that is on our plate.
The Israeli;s require a great deal of US weapons to fight hamas.
Further if US inventories drop too low – China WILL attack Taiwan.
And that is a fight that would make the Ukraine war look tame.
The reality is that Ukraine can not win this and that the US weakens its ability to support other allies and increases the rick of other conflicts if we continue this fight.
My God, but you are tiresome.
Spoken like a media loving CIA controlled democrat…..
Your opinion is null and void
Zelensky cancelled elections and is still running Ukraine. He is the textbook definition of a dictator. Whether Trump lies or not (he didn’t), he won a democratic election. He is also taking moves to LIMIT the power of the federal government, which is exactly the opposite of a dictator.
Put down the crack pipe Gigi.
Gigi,
You do not appear to be able to grasp the difference between what you and others WANT, and what in the real world is possible.
I did not care much for Vance’s attcks on Ukraine over ellections and conscription and silencing the media.
Zellensky is the leader of Ukraine – just as Putin is the leader of Russia. It does not matter whether he was elected – Hamas was elected as the government of Gaza …. in 2006. They have had no elections since. Hamas is representing Gazan’s in current peace talks.
They are a terorist organization. They are also the only legitimate govenrment in Gaza no matter how long ago elections where.
But all that said. the REALITY is Emotional appeals such as yours and Zelenskies are meaningless absent the ability int he real world to accomplish them.
You and Zelensky are actually hopefully unintentially UNDERMINING the possibility of peace and the best possible deal that Ukraine can get.
Zelensky always has the ability to do as it has just hopefully temporarily done and walk away from ANY deal.
But that is pretty much the only leverage that Zelensky/Ukraine have.
They can not win this war. They can not do so alone. They can not do so with Money and Weapons from Europe and the US.
The ONLY thing that will change the outcome if this war continues is other nations providing Ukraine with troops.
Many European countries are seeking to show their support for Ukraine after the Oval office incident.
Not one is offering troops which is the only thing that will change the outcome.
We all WANT Ukraine to defeat Putin. We all WANT a peace deal that provides Ukraine security.
Making that into reality requires that those who WANT that outcome are willing to do what is needed to acheive that outcome.
And they are CLEARLY unwilling to do so.
No country has found Ukraine to be in its security interests – or they would be providing troops.
No country truly beleives this nonsense that if Ukraine falls Putin will continue through the rest of Europe – or they would be providing troops.
Everyone – including Putin WANTS peace. But only Ukraine NEEDS peace at nearly any cost.
Estimated Russia casulties in this war so war are about 800,000 soldiers.
The USSR lost 1.2M soldiers just in the bloody defense of Stalingrad in 1942.
Russia has historically been willing to take MASSIVE casualties for military goals.
Russia has 5 times the population of Ukraine.
Russia will win a war of attrition unless Ukraine can inflict 5 times more casualties on Russia than Russia is inflicting on Ukraine.
Ukraine has fought valiantly. They have both home grown technology and foreign provided technology that has allowed them to do 3 times the damage to Russia that Russia is able to do to them.
That still falls short of what is necessary to prevent a Russian victory in a war of attrition.
The West, Ukraine have tried absolutely everything to transform this from a grinding war of attrition into something Ukraine can win.
All those efforts have predictably FAILED.
If you have an actual option left – please everyone would love to hear it.
But no one else has come up with anything.
It is way past time for Ukraine, and YOU to grasp that what you WANT is not possible.
And to settle for what is possible.
Gigi – Harvard Harris has Trump at his highest approval ever. They have DOGE at 72%. Democrats have their lowest approval ever – below last months record low. Republicans support Trump 3:1 over Republicans in congress
Zelensky is begging to get back to the WH to close the deal, and Trump has REPEATEDLY said – he is not ready yet.
This was a huge mistake that has cost more lives of more Ukrainians, and delayed the peace process and given that you are clueless Empowered Putin.
Ukraine has no leverage, Trump has SOME leverage, There is no deal if Putin does not agree.
No one – not Trump, not Zelensky is going to get Putin to agree if he does not want to.
You can rant all you want about the evil Putin – if you do not want a deal.
You are a moron if you think there will be any deal that appears to rub Putin’s face in it.
But then your idiocy has already been well established.
Please Gigi, explain to us all how it is you are going to get Putin to agree to whatever deal it is that you seem to want ?
The Germans, after WWI and WWII and the Japanese after WWII agreed to the terms of the allies.
BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN DEFEATED.
japan and Germany did not suddenly go – “darn, we were the bad guys, we should let the world spank us”
They were defeated and accepted whatever peace deal the Allies chose.
Putin has not been defeated. He is not going to be defeated.
The situation for Ukraine will only get worse over time.
The best deal Ukraine was going to get was in May 2022 – the deal Biden dispatched Johnson to Kill.
The Best deal Zelensky will get is whatever Trump can manage to negotiate.
And most rational humans grasp that is NOT going to be a good deal for Ukraine.
If you want to Rub Putin’s face in it – you must DEFEAT russia.
Nearly half a trillion has bee spent trying to defeat Russia – 2/3 of that from the US.
It should be obvious to anyone with more than 1 brain cell that more money will not change the outcome of this war.
Given that the outcome YOU want – frankly that all of us wish for, can not be acheived without a massive battlefield defeat of Russia,
how are you planning to accomplish that ?
Not a sentence of your screed is true. We understand what you mean, though. You really mean to express that you are a stupid Dunceocrat and proud of your ignorance, impertenance, and flatulence. But thanks for stopping by. We don’t hear nearly enough from the cerebrally impaired Dunceocrats.
Yup. The Dems are now pro-war and anti-elections. Quite a turn from their former selves.
And yup, why else would the diminutive Z man knowingly torpedo any chance at peace unless he is being pressured or controlled by the people who make enormous profits from the war continuing …. at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money and hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian and Russian lives.
They have had their hands in the cookie jar for a long time with a weak and indulgent parent, as they become spoiled, bratty, and flabby. Now Daddy has come home and he’s taking his belt off, and they’re squealing and resting like the spoiled little kids they are. Hence the nausea-inducing identical messages from pro-war European left-leaning leaders today to the diminutive Z man, encouraging him to continue the bloodshed and the flow of laundered dollars.
Maybe it’s because Zelenskyy couldn’t be bullied by the fat narcissist who is owned by Putin. Friday’s spectacle was choreographed, with the pig expecting deference, an agreement for mineral rights and boot licking—backed up by the fat faced little prick—-but it backfired spectacularly. Trump and the prick came across as the bully losers they are and humiliated not just themselves but America.
So now MAGA media accuses Zelenskyy of not wanting peace. Such BS. Zelenskyy has thanked America and Congress countless times. But Trump tried to bully him into publicly kissing up to him and taking verbal abuse. The taxpayer money was approved by Congress—it’s not Trump’s money. We have never before treated an ally like that.
To the extent that Friday was Coreographed – that would have been by Zelensky and democrats.
Trump put up with 45 minutes of Ukraine trying to conduct negotiations via the Media from the Oval Office before Trump stepped in and shut this down.
As Trump said – Zelensky is not ready for peace.
Zelensky can either chose the peace that is possible – or he can fight one. As you say – he was not bullied.
And his pride and efforts to make the impossible possible will cost Ukraine thousands of lives every week.
As to negotiations – Trump and Zelensky can say whatever they want about and to Putin in private.
But if you start attacking Putin in Public – you will get no deal.
Putin can easily walk away from a deal. Zelensky can’t.
Selensky is asking the world for a secuity guarantee ? Why ? Putin is not asking for a security guarantee ? Why Not ?
Because if this continues – Russia ultimately wins. Victors can name any terms they want.
” Zelenskyy has thanked America and Congress countless times”
Correct -and then he makes demands.
Are YOU prepared to promise to send YOUR kids or grand kids to fight russia Ukraine in the future ?
If not – they You to are unwilling to give Ukraine the security guarantees it seeks.
I do not fault Ukraine for seeking security guarantees.
But Trump is absolutely correct First that is premature and second – no nation is offering them.
So Zelensky can continue to beg for security guarantees that no one is offering – while his people die.
Or he can come to the table and see what he can get.
“The taxpayer money was approved by Congress”
Your deluded -= this is not about money – and Biden already sent Ukraine far more than congress approved.
Regardless no amount of US money will save Ukraine.
And if Trump is witholding money congress requires him to spend on Ukraine, Congress can sue Trump.
“We have never before treated an ally like that.”
First Ukraine is NOT an Ally. That is pretty much what no security agreement means.
nearly every US president since Bush I – including Obama repeatedly has SAID that Ukraine is NOT a security interest of the US.
So NO Ukraine is not an Ally – just a country that we chose to give hundreds of billions of dollars to in the hope that they might defeat Putin.
Next – we frequently treat Allies like Crap.
US foreign policy has been CRAP for most of our History.
You rant that Trump is a bully – frankly he is Refreshing as US diplomacy goes. He is right out in the open. There is no secret what US policy is. There is none of the stupid US back stabbing of just about everyone that has characterized SU foreign policy for 2 centuries.
The absolute WORST reflection of the values that make this country are the behavior of our government on the global stage.
#74. After the EU has pillaged the 300 billion Russian assets from the Central Bank, the EU will give Zelensky just enough to annihilate Ukraine and damage Russia. Problem solved.
Great strategy EU.
Part of what Turley is paid to do is to try to create the illusion that there is method to Trump’s madness. There isn’t. There was no plan to create a vehicle to take the question of executive power to fire the Office of Special Counsel—- Turley made that up out of whole cloth. Real President Musk is just trying to decimate the federal government by either firing or trying to get all federal employees to resign— there’s no strategy—none.
It’s all part of Trump’s mental illness that was on full display Friday—Trump is a malignant narcissist who desperately needs to bully other people—especially those he thinks can’t fight back—like migrants, federal employees and Zelenskyy , who got shown the door of the White House when he couldn’t be bullied or demeaned. Trump actually expected Zelenskyy to grovel and take his verbal abuse in addition to signing over mineral rights as a condition for receiving aid appropriated by Congress. He had his chosen media there to make it an event — but got skunked. When the fat toddler and his little toady side kick didn’t get the public boot licking that Putin wanted, they had a meltdown and even accused Zelenskyy of trying to start WW3. What a pathetic display of mental illness and deference to a murderous dictator!
My only question is how far Republicans are going to let him go before they do the right thing and agree to impeach him. It’s not just selling the power to bully federal employees or lying to get into office— it’s the deference to a Russian dictator and trying to publicly shame an ally to feed his massive ego.
Just take the buy-out offer, Gigi.
Can you not come up with something new? I didn’t read your entire comments, only the last paragraph. In it: Trump is a Putin lover. He has a massive ego (name me a president who didn’t). He needs to be impeached. He is a bully.
You forgot a few important points: You know, the fascist thing, the part about racism. Have I forgotten anything? Give it a rest, eh?
Randy is a hater. Randy hates America. Randy hates people pursuing peace. You go, boy!
Grow a brain—eh? No American president has ever before sided with a murderous dictator and tried to publicly demean an ally as a condition for receiving aid approved by Congress. Then again, we’ve never had a convicted felon stinking up our White House. We’ve also never had a former president start an insurrection when they lost an election or deliberately steal classified documents—nor have we ever had a “first lady” who posed for soft- core porn either. Do you see a trend here?
#74. Sure we have and the head of the FBI dressed in women’s clothes, too.
“No American president has ever before sided with a murderous dictator”
Really – DOGE found that USAID was funding Al Queda.
The US has allies like Turkey and Saudi arabia, in the Past the Shaw was a US ally.
We have sided with lots of murderous dictators, long before Trump.
Further – whatever you think about Putin – he actually remains popular in Russia.
If he was not – circumstances would be different.
But the Russian people are NOT trying to overthrow him.
“Tried to publicly demean an ally as a condition for receiving aid approved by Congress. ”
Zelensky is not an ally.
You do not seem to grasp that just because you like someone or favor outcomes that are good for them – does not make them an ally.
“Then again, we’ve never had a convicted felon stinking up our White House. ”
We still don;t – more lawfare than you will lose in the long run.
Yes, your claimed Trend is that Trump is unusual.
While we can debate details – generally that is true.
Trump is unusual – and that is what the country needs.
And which of those things you mentioned in your final paragraph are impeachable offenses?
None, Gigi (or Jiji, chicken chicken, its name in mandarin. Which describes it perfectly by the way) is already behind on the news. Wannabe strongman Z already caving after seeing the sorry state of affairs of europes economy and military after the checks they wrote to look good bounced.
He was bullied to payout to the Bidens and can their investigators annnmd he’s already caved to Trump. Daddy spanked ya again
“Part of what Turley is paid to do is to try to create the illusion that there is method to Trump’s madness. There isn’t. There was no plan to create a vehicle to take the question of executive power to fire the Office of Special Counsel—- Turley made that up out of whole cloth.”
Of course there was – even YOU have ranted about this – You have ranted about the Unitary executive before – telling us this was some MAGA concoction. It is litterally the language of the constitution and it has been part of conservative legal dogma for 250 years.
This has been on the legal agenda of conservative think tanks for decades. And I am sure that you can find it inside of Project 2025 that you claim is the Trump agenda.
I would further note that all Trumps EOs and the entire planning of the early days of this administration are the result of YEARS of planning – bu Trump. by his team. By conservatives.
You have congradulated yourself on the 70+ lawsuits – many of which resulted in TRO’s
But do you honestly think that those lawsuits were unanticipated ? Nearly all the TRO’s have been revoked
It is CLEAR to anyone that has a clue – that Trump and his people were prepared for this legal onslaught.
Not only are they prepared – but in many many cases they are playing rope-a-dope with those of you on the left.
They have managed to get you to start a political and legal battle on the least favorable ground possible.
“Real President Musk is just trying to decimate the federal government by either firing or trying to get all federal employees to resign”
If only that were true.
“there’s no strategy—none.” So you claim the strategy is to get federal employees to quit and then you say there is no strategy ?
Make up your mind.
You talk about fighting back – Against What ?
The reality is that there is no right to enter or be in the US or any other country illegally.
Just as YOU have no right to be in someone elses home.
How are you going to”fight back” when you violating the law and other peoples rights ?
There is no right to employment, not private employment, not government employment.
There is not even a right if you do everything right.
If you are a textile worker and you are doing your job unbeleivably well,
But the company you work for is unable to produce clothes as cheaply as those from China – you are going to lose your job – through no fault of your own. There is not a right to a job.
President Biden has massively increased the federal workforce over the past 4 years. We are going $1T further in debt every 100 days.
This is unsustainable. Debt is now 150% of GDP – no country has recovered from that. The US has unique advantage that make that easier for us,
But it is still going to be hard.
Whether you like it or not there are going to be significant federal spending cuts.
Those cuts are going to hurt some people. But failure to cut today – means even more draconian cuts tomorw.
The Harvard Harris poll found 72% of people support DOGE.
So what are you fighting against ? The cuts are coming – bad today or worse tomorow, but coming none the less.
As to Zelensky and Ukraine. What are you fighting for ? The reality is that the only option left if you want to defeat Putin is troops on the ground.
If you are not going to do that then – grow up and try to figure out what can be done.
Over and over you are fighting about nonsense.
You are fighting for a world that does not exist and can not exist.
Do Russian soldiers have a right to be in Ukraine?
Should people all over the world obey whatever laws they are living under?
How far are Republicans going to let Trump go ? They will contrinue to support Trump so long as his policies have 70-80% public support.
They will continue to support Trump when his approval is 20pts higher than theirs.
They will continue to support Trump when his approval is 30pts above democrats.