In the last week, protesters in Minneapolis began putting up barricades to create checkpoints that bar federal immigration officers from entering certain neighborhoods. It is all too familiar to those of us who remember what the mayor in 2020 called “the Summer of Love” in Seattle and the establishment of an autonomous area known as the Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP). Ironically, these barricades are being set up after a jury ruled against the City of Seattle for negligence after the killing of 16-year-old Antonio Mays Jr. in CHOP.
The self-declared anarchist enclave was originally called Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) but was later renamed the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest (CHOP).
In 2020, we discussed the prospect of tortious liability for the city, which abandoned the Seattle Police Department (SPD) East Precinct to the mob and stood by as CHOP declared itself the sole authority in its seized area. As I noted in the column, “If Seattle gets chopped in court, it will be due not to a failure of government but to a failure to govern.”
Seattle-based ice cream company, Molly Moon’s Homemade Ice Cream, and other businesses sued the city.
While first supporting the autonomous zone as part of a “summer of love,” Democratic politicians like then-Mayor Jenny Durkan later distanced themselves from the massive damage and crime in the zone.
The Mays lawsuit included not only the city but former Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best and Seattle Fire Chief Harold Scoggins.
The jury awarded the Mays family more than $30 million in damages — $4 million to the estate of Mays Jr. and $26 million to Mays Sr., according to The Seattle Times.
Mays Jr. was visiting Seattle from San Diego when he went to the area to join the protests. He was later shot and the police failed to respond for five hours due to the limits on entry into CHOP. At that point, the crime scene was hopelessly corrupted.
Here is the complaint: Complaint Antonio Mays, Jr.
Not far from these Big Cities are unused Military Camps, they are old but still have Barracks and Store houses and Commissaries and Kitchens that could house the Homeless and Drug Addicted people.
Seattle, San Francisco, L.A. could make use of these and move the indigent-bums out and give them a place to live. The Bums congregate to Cities because it is a place they can engage in an economy (albeit a Drug economy). Basically They need a place to go to make it (at some subsistence level),
Utilizing these old mothballed military camps is a place with a roof over their heads, that other wise sit and decay.
There are so many homeless coming into these Cities because of Lawyers that make a living ‘Defending the Indigent’ yet don’t fix the situation by advocating for Basic Needs at are in place and unused. State Governors are to blame as well for not coordination with Federal Military to use the ‘mothballed (abandoned’ camps’ for shelter.
It makes you think: What are these Lawyers and Officials going to do (Offer)? When the Big Catastrophe happens and the People of the Suburbs are left out on their own. FEMA Ha Ha Ha ha – that’s not a joke, We are not equipped nor prepared.
Where will you house 10 Million People when Yellowstone decides to blow (the Caldera goes up in smoke), If Gaza happen to a City here where will the people go? You get the idea, They (We) have no credible answer. The Big-City Homeless problem can be address with a little cooperation and thinking. Simultaneously building the relief shelters needed to prepared for a real disaster. The Media, Politicians and The People talk of Civil War – BUT NOT ONE of them talk about what we are prepared for if one breaks out.
Once the Walmart, Target, Costco and Amazon Warehouses are raided and overrun then what? That might last a week. People living in the National Parks – good luck…
Fund Shelter Camps and Soup Kitchens- Not Wars
Be on Guard & Get Our Country prepared
Here is what I say. The people of Seattle will eventually pay for the loss of law and order in their city.
There is some hope when we see that they will get what they got good and hard by the politicians they voted in. One can only hope that they get more of what they voted for and be required by their legislature to buy more lubricant to keep the pain to a minimum. In this case schadenfreude is justified.
It won’t be a burden on Seattle at all. They will just increase taxes on the “rich” to pay for the “ block party”
Santyger, and when the rich leave the city for more friendly confines who then will pay. The rich in blue states are parting the blue sea and declaring follow me brother to a new home of freedom.
When the rich leave the everyday man will be left to pay the bills and they will still vote the comrades into office. The new proposed name for Seattle will be DUHZville City where the history of the worlds communes is never taught.
I hope this stands and the city has to pay. The only way to make people understand the costs of not doing your job is to actually cover the expenses. Money talks. If you do not do your job and someone is hurt or killed due to your negligence, then you need to pay. You let bad guys run wild and mayhem hits, then do not cry later when you have to pay the price. This goes for the government as well as any private interests involved with this mayhem. This should have never been allowed to happen.
The problem is the city will pay with “Other Peoples Money”
You are correct. Unfortunately, when there is no personal liability, there is no moral hazard to one’s decision-making. Case in point, our politicians’ drunken sailor spending.
Free Violent rioting and the taxpayer picks up the tab!
Demoncrats love inventing new free stuff.
They only do this crap in Blueville States and Cities. They know they would be held accountable in Red States.
Perhaps a smart Congressman can pass a bill that requires a proportional multiplier derived from “civil unrest and dissonance “ costs and lawsuits when determining their federal taxpayer dollar allocation. Kind of like a bad driver risk multiplier for your auto insurance.
Not one dime will come out of the pockets of the mayor or the police chief. So in what way are they discouraged from repeating the same behavior? If the mayor and police chief had any fear of being financially ruined by their inaction, they might do their job.
I believe gross negligence can pierce the veil of sovereign immunity of the government and make them both personally accountable. The problem arises that the jury pools are made up of the same idiots supporting this stupid crap, look at Virginia, look at NY, DC! Makes it hard to have the law correctly applied in an unbiased manner.
Apparently, walls work now. Nothing is more hypocritical than a leftwing fascist scumbag.
The only thing that bothers me about this lawsuit is that he was there voluntarily and joining in the protests.
He may not have realized that he was signing his own death certificate in so doing. Waiting 5 hours before calling police and EMS is unconscionable.
Simple answer here – BEARCAT VEHICLES and TEAR GAS. Follow up with riot batons. The Karens and St Alex’s of Minnesomolia will RUN!!!
Sounds more like the barrios of Brazil than America. I wish ICE were able to handle these undesirables like Brazil Police do.
It is hard to name another profession where you can risk everyone else’s money, drive communities into debt, make decisions that affect lives and livelihoods, and face almost no personal consequence when it fails. In government, the worst outcome is usually political. Someone else gets elected. That is treated as accountability.
Meanwhile, the rewards are enormous. High salaries, generous pensions, lifetime benefits, top-tier healthcare, legal protection, and personal security. At higher levels, officials make decisions that shape entire markets and can legally turn insider access into personal wealth. Power this vast, paired with consequences this thin, is an open invitation to recklessness. Voting someone out after the damage is done is not accountability.
Great description of the warped system we have in this country. Spot on about the abuse of OPM while not having a bit of liability for one’s actions. Where else can someone who has never worked a day in the real world get elected to office (e.g., the presidency) and end up a multimillionaire? We have two significant examples in the last 35 years. The real insanity is that voters like those in Seattle, Portland, NYC, Chicago, and LA–failed cities–continue to vote such people into office.
You’re right Mary. Places like California reveal how durable the scheme really is.
Extraordinary natural beauty, climate, and opportunity create a powerful incentive to stay, even as governance deteriorates. That stickiness gives the system room to operate without immediate consequences.
Then the cycle runs predictably. Tax aggressively, soak the productive, and redistribute just enough to build and protect a permanent majority of middle and lower income voters. The resources mask the damage, the base sustains the power, and the politicians remain insulated. It is not brilliance. It is exploitation layered on top of abundance.
Olly, this is off topic, but what book (or books) did you write?
Thanks for asking Suze. Awakening a Forgotten Republic: Restoring the Soul of Liberty and the Duty of Self-Government is my first published book. It came out in December. It focuses on how we lost civic formation and how that shows up in today’s failures of governance. I’m also working on a follow-on book that’s more practical, focused on how civic formation can actually be rebuilt.
Thanx Olly, Just ordered it. Retired, but not too old to learn:)
Thank you, Suze! I really appreciate that. And you’re exactly the audience I had in mind. Civic understanding isn’t about age, it’s about engagement. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts once you’ve had a chance to read it.
Olly, I just ordered it too. I think I am too old to learn but I plan to give it to my grandson who is now in law school.
Thank you, wiseoldlawyer! And I respectfully disagree. You’re never too old to learn. Even after writing this book and working on the follow-up, I’m still learning as I go. That’s one of the great things about systems thinking. It opens your mind to new ways of seeing problems and connections. Once that happens, it’s a refreshingly different way to look at life itself.
I thought this was your first book.
https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Giving-J-D-Oliver/dp/1977226809
Heart Giving only received one review.
That is not my book.
This is my first book: https://us.amazon.com/Awakening-Forgotten-Republic-Restoring-Self-Government/dp/B0G67KM7JK
“It is hard to name another profession where you can risk everyone else’s money, drive communities into debt, make decisions that affect lives and livelihoods, and face almost no personal consequence when it fails… Someone else gets elected. That is treated as accountability.”
Exactly. The first step that must be taken to remedy this travesty of justice is to rescind the doctrine of presumptive limited liability for public employees, and that step needs to be taken ASAP. Legislators, no matter that party or faction they belong to, have zero incentive to change the status quo by passing a law to that effect, and, as you, note, massive incentives to preserve it. The only viable alternative I see would be the possibility of obtaining such an outcome from an Article V (Constitutional) Convention of States. Even then, the results would be far from assured. But it might be the best chance of the few that remain to us.
That’s the recurring reality. Every proposed solution eventually runs into the same prerequisite. Civic formation. You cannot enact reform, sustain it, or prevent backsliding without it.
First things first, you have to correctly identify the problem you are trying to fix. The root cause is an unformed citizenry. But at the same time, you still have to confront the damage that lack of formation has already produced. Reforming structures without reforming citizens fails. Reforming citizens without addressing existing abuse leaves the system intact. Both have to happen together, and neither works in isolation.
Today is election day in our small city. A vote for City Council. Expected turnout only about 25% of the registered voters. Those idiots who don’t vote don’t realize that a City Council member has more impact on a citizen’s daily life and happiness than a vote for President.
You’re exactly right about the impact of local offices. That realization connects directly to my own awakening. The first thing I had to come to grips with was accepting responsibility for the government I had. About 19 years ago, I began studying and eventually understood that I had never been formed to be the kind of citizen self-government requires. My book reflects that journey. Once I recognized that root cause, everything else came into focus. The problems we debate here, national and local alike, are downstream consequences of an unformed citizenry.
What they become is “untouchables,” who can operate as such for decades, trouncing local aspirations and imparting a negative on economy. Politicians are kiling this country economically.
Well said, betuadollar. That’s exactly the dynamic. Once officials become untouchable, economic harm stops mattering. Civic formation isn’t optional. It’s entirely required if this cycle is ever going to change.
You nailed it!!! I’m going to post your comment on Facebook. You won the internet today!
Olly
How about financial advisors and lawyers, off the top of my head 🤣
Budweiser marketing executives comes to mind also…🌈
“Mays Jr. was visiting Seattle from San Diego when he went to the area to join the protests.” Is there not a question here of “assumption of risk”? More facts about the actions and knowledge of Mays are needed. We don’t want to reach the point where someone who makes a bomb can claim to be a victim of the bomb.
I believe we are already there. Burglars who get shot or injured breaking into other people’s homes have been successful with their tort claims. That began long ago, in Texas if I recall.
Mary – I remember the case from law school. It may have been out of Iowa. Someone who was absent from the home set up a rifle to go off automatically if someone broke in through a door or window. Someone did, and the gun went off.
Correct.
In a case I remember, the homeowner was convicted. Am I right?
ed
I think we’re already beyond that point. Walz and Frey both made multiple televised broadcasts demeaning the federal immigration deportation process. They portrayed them in a very negative light and compared them to lawless Nazis etc. The Mayor hurled profane messages at them to get the fk out, the Governor instructed his citizens to resist their efforts and to follow and videotape officers in their efforts. This was in a volatile atmosphere as the communist disruption network of idiots had already been actively observed. I believe there is substantial evidence of their complicity and involvement in this situation. Walz’s instructions have led to two deaths and millions in costs. He and Frey both need to be arrested, charged and prosecuted under the federal law as well as held accountable by the families for the wrongful deaths in civil court. That would put a Stop to this type insanity and those Communists that want to continue to actively disrupt and physically interfere are free to proceed at their own risk.
Seattle’s strategy? Appeal, delay, countersue, until we take back Washington, DC. Then, the judgment will be quietly dismissed. After all, we are the party of wisdom, intellectualism, and honesty, and have done no wrong.
City governments have no money other than what they can extract from the citizens in taxes. The citizens of Seattle will pay the bill. Of course there will be liability insurance payouts, increasing the cost of not only Seattle’s liability coverage but because of reinsurance the criminal negligence of Seattle will be costing us all in increased taxes to pay the increased premiums.
Pity they can’t write exclusions into those policies to prevent such “murder-and-inherit” results.
Many of the Seattle cops have retired or left. Now they have a shortage.
Our new Mayor will only make it worse.
Sure dustoff, whatever you say. And you’re an honorary Seattle cop. As well as a “retarded” firefighter as you so often brag.
Is it true the mayor asks for your advice too?
Do you live in the Seattle area Ano?
Or you just love making dumb remarks.
Yes and no. Dustoff you’re a pathological liar.
Two more people were murdered in the Seattle area.
Tell me about them…
Fire away loser.
Agree. What a truly bizarre comment. Trolls usually do a little better. Wonder when Prof. T. will change this comment section such that each time someone posts they can simply change the name and email. At least make it a little challenging for the trolls. This anonymous posting stuff is caca.
What’s the difference between Mary and a troll? Nothing. She’s resort to swears and threats. Apparently you know how to override the comment section.
Mary, I have been complaining about the “Anonymous problem” for a long time. I don’t understand why the site doesn’t rectify it.
“I have been complaining about the “Anonymous problem” for a long time. I don’t understand why the site doesn’t rectify it.”
The first thing that should, and I am certain could, be done with little trouble to Turley or his site administrators, is to restore the ability for those of us who lack WordPress accounts to provide an identification name on the reply form. You do realize that was taken away from many (possibly most) of us over a year ago, do you not? I have complained about that in the comments section of this blog easily a dozen times over that year, and have never seen any acknowledgement of the problem or endorsement of a solution from any of the regulars here. If you choose that mode of conduct, which is what I expect to happen, you forfeit any reasonable expectation for a resolution to the problem.
HullBobby,
I have proposed in the past of a monthly/yearly pay to comment like subscription. Those monies then go towards a charity or the professor sets up a fund for lower economic high school students who apply and have to write a essay on the Constitution. Those monies goes towards higher education, vocational schools, or something similar. I would gladly support something like that, and could get rid of a lot of the annony morons and their inane comments. Return the blog to civility. If the X/slow and dumb one/Gigis of the world want to pay into it, by all means. We can still just scroll past.
Seattle has had a police shortage since the 90’s. It’s not due to the protests in 2020. It has been an issue in Seattle for a while now. Bad cops, retirements, attrition, etc. all contribute to the poor numbers, Seattle can only deploy around 910 police officers at any time when they should be 1,400. Bonuses and higher pay have not helped much. The problem is finding quality cops. It’s hard to find well educated and competent cops everywhere. That is why there are so many problems with policing these days and why DHS also has problems. They had to lower standards and physical requirements to meet hiring goals and that presents them with the added problem is poorly trained and badly vetted recruits who then make things worse for the departments.
This is a nationwide problem. Poor training produces more misconduct. Police departments around the country have the same problem. Poor quality recruits and a very small pool to hire from. High school diplomas as the bare minimum to become a cop should be raised to having a 4 year degree. The majority of developed nations require higher education standards for police forces than we do. Perhaps we should start by raising standards instead of lowering them and offering $10,000-$30,000 bonuses to entice poorly qualified recruits.
Oh oh, its george again. Got proof? Answer: nope.
I’m sure X said something inane, off topic and contrary to Professor Turley and common sense but I no longer read his drivel.
george.
You know nothing about Seattle
Seattle Police lost 96 more officers in 2023, over 600 since defund the police.
The Seattle Police Department (SPD) has experienced a sustained staffing crisis since 2020, with over 600 officers leaving, bringing total personnel to their lowest levels in over 30 years (approximately 848–933 deployable officers as of late 2024/early 2025). The exodus, heavily influenced by the 2020 Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP)
Dustoff, you’ve got a Seattle handle on this, what message, if any, does this Seattle jury verdict send to the city- and Olympia? It doesn’t look like how we perceive Seattle votes.
Dustoff has a handle? Now that’s ripe. Pal, search google for some degree of truth. Dustoff is a habitual liar.
Dustoff, really?
lol
Proof.
Most of my of my posting are from the news reports
I must be over the target
Mike.
I don’t really understand this whole suit,
A father’s son was killed in CHOP and the city had to pay out. The weird part his son was stealing a Jeep. It’s confusing. I know the business in the downtown area that CHOP took over lost money and were threaten. So they are suing too.
DustOff,
The whole situation was a total mess. The city should be held accountable, the mayor, the police chief. The people who organized the CHOP should also be held accountable, but they never will. Those kind of people are never held accountable for their actions. The kid should of never been there in the first place.
Sanity is holding people accountable for their behavior. In addition to government officials, the actual funders and participants in establishing CHOP should be held personally accountable.
Why, what did they all do that was “personally accountable”? Do recall that he city government approved the action. State too.
How’s about some joint and several liability? If it could be proven that someone was funding CHOP, (which no doubt they were), like George $.’s organization, seems attorneys (and the city’s insurance carriers) would look for more deep pockets to pick.
But what is the crime Mary? Funding an Illegal block party that the mayor and council approved?
And, why would the insurance company go after unknown persons – recovery? Nope. Burn millions to get Soros?
Just will raise the rates or cancel.
A block party? Were you there. I’m betting not.
DustOff,
Definitely NOT a block party. Prime example of what far-leftists want. Lawlessness. And the fact the then mayor, and IIRC then governor just let it happen, tells you what kind of people they are.
Insurrection
Really? Against who and what? Treason against whom?
Treason Law: Under RCW 9.82.010, treason against the state consists of levying war against the people of Washington, adhering to its enemies, or giving them aid and comfort. This law explicitly includes levying war as a form of treason, which is defined in RCW 9.82.020 as an actual act of war committed by persons rising in insurrection with intent to prevent or force the repeal of state laws by force and intimidation. Treason is a Class A felony, punishable by death.
They disrupted businesses and interfered with the lives of property owners.
So what. That’s why those businesses have insurance.
Ah, the standard reply of those that never owned anything.
Capitalist business’ have insurance. One of them is voting in politicians that protect life and property along with their customers.
I know all these words are alien to CCP trolls but i figure as long as you’re here, you might want to learn about what your missing over here in freedom-land.
For example, here, you can work in anything you enjoy! It’s your choice! AND you can get rich if you’re smart and work hard. Even homeless people live better than you.
No one over here in freedom-land has time for CCP trolls as we are amongst the richest people on earth over here! we get paid what humans are worth!
Of course it wasn’t easy straightening this place out so we are very cautious of who we allow in. Sorry, it won’t be you. I know you are pretending to live here in freedom-land but there’s no way you ever will because we all over here don’t like you.
Businesses in Seattle’s Capitol Hill neighborhood suffered extensive damages, safety threats, and severe revenue losses during the 2020 CHOP/CHAZ occupation. The city settled a lawsuit for $3.65 million in 2023, acknowledging property damage, blocked access, and negligence, as businesses faced vandalism, arson, and a lack of police and EMS
And they are doing just fine now. Every rioting or event produces temporary inconveniences, delays, disruptions, etc. That is why insurance exists. Businesses have them, cities have them. Police departments have their own.
Seattle’s police force has had chronic staffing problems since the 90’s. It’s an issue that plagues not just Seattle it also affect other cities including those in Red states.
Also many are lowering education standards, physical fitness, and a few other things to increase the pool of potential employees. That is not good.
” That is why insurance exists.”
When cities are not managed correctly, ” rioting or event produces temporary inconveniences, delays, disruptions, etc. That is why insurance exists.”
That insurance raises prices significantly, which you will complain about in another posting, not recognizing that you and your thoughts are the cause of pain for all American citizens.
Perhaps you’ve never built and / or owned a business?
The business insurance will have a deductible and then the premiums will increase after the payout or not be offered for renewal. During that time the owner will have to cover the costs out of pocket and or raise the price of the goods sold and probably close down. Just what the rioters want, no private owned businesses.
They invaded a City neighborhood, they set up barricades (false imprisonment), they blocked and restricted public services, access and transportation, they attacked and harassed citizens within their neighborhoods, they subverted local government, they did so brandishing weapons. Pretty sure that rises to the level of insurrection.
The city leaders told the police to abandon the police station In Seattle.
The crime went nuts.