There is a new, troubling study on the financial status of most American workers. The National Institute on Retirement Security (NIRS) found that the median American worker has just $955 saved for retirement through defined-contribution plans such as 401(k) accounts. Given the expected job losses from robotics and AI, the study only deepens concerns about the economic and political pressures facing this country in the years to come.
In my new book, “Rage and the Republic: The Unfinished Story of the American Revolution,” I discuss those impacts from robotics and AI on our democracy. Using the most conservative estimates of job losses, the book explores how a large population of unemployed citizens will affect their relationship with the state.
We cannot maintain a “kept citizenship” while preserving the essential elements of the American republic. A large population of static, unemployed citizens poses challenges for what I call a “liberty-enhancing economy,” an economy that affords citizens independence from the state.
This study magnifies those concerns. If accurate, it suggests that even a short displacement in employment will return state support. Many jurisdictions are already launching Universal Basic Income (UBI) pilot programs. If this republic is to survive in the 21st Century, it will require developing new areas of “homocentric” jobs while avoiding predictable measures to subsidize positions that will inevitably be lost to robotics.
Notably, the study found that among those with positive retirement plans, median savings were much higher at $40,000.
Those with a defined contribution (DC) plan are far better off with an average savings of $179,082.
The takeaway from the report, for me, is the need to instill greater private savings. Some workers are barely paid above subsistence. However, we also need to educate citizens about the importance of setting aside retirement funds to the extent possible.
As I previously wrote, I am a great fan of the Trump Accounts. The $6.25 billion gift of Michael and Susan Dell (now augmented by dozens of corporations) could offer the single best hope for the survival of our system. Millions of young people will be able to experience the benefits of investments, savings and, most importantly, economic independence.
The study also shows the growing dangers of the collapse of the social security accounts. Despite assurances made when Congress established the system, Congress has continued to draw on Social Security funds to avoid reducing spending levels. The system could fail for these workers, who will not be able to draw upon money taken from their paychecks for the purpose of retirement. It is one of the most outrageous betrayals in United States history.
To this day, Democrats are opposing efforts to make major changes to guarantee the viability of the system for future generations, including the use of private investment accounts that could no longer be raided by Congress for easy money.
All politicians express alarm at the potential failure, but they attack any efforts to address the underlying problems as an attack on social security. As a result, we just drift toward this cliff knowing that most citizens have practically no other source of retirement support.
“Sometimes you need a dictator.” – Donald Trump
Who would win in a fight: Karl Marx, Groucho Marx, or Richard Marx?
Skid Marx of course…
In modern slang, the term “skid mark” means a fecal stain or smear on the back of one’s underwear. It may also apply to a pet experiencing anal irritation and sliding (or scooting) across the floor to relieve the itching or obstruction, leaving a line of feces behind.
“In modern slang, the term “skid mark” means…”
Everyone here who is not a brain-damaged illiterate knew what it meant upon first reading it. So, you needed to look it up?
Maybe it just meant the black burnt tires as you hit the brakes on that road we never built?!
Threatening to punish people for voting the wrong way is something to be expected from a dictator.
What nonsense. Politicians threaten to primary other politicians all the time.
Was there a threat to use FORCE >
There’s a difference between threatening an opposing candidate and threatening to punish those who vote for that opposing candidate.
“the people are nothing but a great beast…
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value.”
– Alexander Hamilton
_________________________
“The true reason (says Blackstone) of requiring any qualification, with regard to property in voters, is to exclude such persons, as are in so mean a situation, that they are esteemed to have no will of their own.”
“If it were probable that every man would give his vote freely, and without influence of any kind, then, upon the true theory and genuine principles of liberty, every member of the community, however poor, should have a vote… But since that can hardly be expected, in persons of indigent fortunes, or such as are under the immediate dominion of others, all popular states have been obliged to establish certain qualifications, whereby, some who are suspected to have no will of their own, are excluded from voting; in order to set other individuals, whose wills may be supposed independent, more thoroughly upon a level with each other.”
– Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, 1775
______________________________________________________
“[We gave you] a [restricted-vote] republic, if you can keep it.”
– Ben Franklin, 1787
Mr. Turley, don’t believe this partisan organization. Total retirement plan assets per capita have increased from $41,000 in the year 2000 to $117,000 in 2024. See U.S. Retirement Assets Hit $40T – DC plan assets increased 1.9% from March, finds the Investment Company Institute.
https://401kspecialistmag.com/u-s-retirement-assets-hit-40t/
“Total retirement plan assets per capita have increased ”
Now draw upon your extensive expertise to enlighten us regarding the statistics of how those assets are allocated across income groups.
I would, but you would just turn blind eyes to it, so I am smart by saving my time, effort, and energy.
The social contract is broken. People who build this country and do the work have f’n earned a right to survive with dignity, not like dumb animals.
US citizens have no accessible health care, crap educational system, precarious retirement, no reliable transportation, rampant wage theft amidst lousy pay, no upward mobility, people can’t afford a house OR rent, and you think this is normal? The poor have no power, they can’t live with constant price increases in everything from tires, insurance, food, and electricity. They are quite aware they are seen as useless eaters and derelicts. They are angry AF, since playing by the rules all their lives with nothing to show for a lifetime of labor. People are so stressed they’re on their last nerve, breaking down in the streets so the lucky and greedy can demand more violent policing. (Watch a few copcam videos.) You who disregard the welfare of fellow citizens are disparaging workers, electricians, a hairdresser, your garbage man, restaurant server, plumbers, snow removed, good teachers and well deserve the rage that will no doubt come home to haunt you. These people are not asking for a bloody handout, just respect.
America IS Freedom and Self-Reliance.
Run a business or get a job.
You are not an American.
You parasites need to go home.
____________________________________
Thou Shalt Not Covet
Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness
Thou Shalt Not Steal
Thou Shalt Not Kill
Make your own gasoline, build your own road. Perform surgery on yourself. Don’t rely on others.
I am amazed that when I come to work, for lunch, the staff are ordering takeout food and bringing in Starbuck’s coffee drinks in the morning. I bring my lunch in a paper bag. I drink one cup of coffee and estimate that it costs less than a quarter for the ingredients. Yet, I see people all the time who are on Medicaid come in with the latest phones, bags, shoes, expensive nails and designer clothes, driving nicer cars than I do.
There is a mindset that is at the root of this crisis. It takes time and persistence to get ahead in this world, but it can be done. It might mean working six or seven days per week for a time. It might mean not eating out, driving an older car, no sodas, no alcohol, cigarettes or dope.
It can be done. It is a matter of discipline and persistence.
E.M. How dare you. Insinuating that those on government assistance don’t practice any self discipline in their lives. Remember Obama phones. President Obama had a stash. These people have a right to life’s little extras. While other people who are not on any kind of aid seem to be much more responsible in how they handle their money.
“I drink one cup of coffee and estimate that it costs less than a quarter for the ingredients.”
Just a nitpick – your estimated cost for a cup of coffee may be way high unless you are buying pre-made Keurig pods or doing something similar. I buy premium, imported, fresh ground coffee (or sometimes beans to grind in my own) from a local vendor. Based on what I pay, the number of cups we make daily, and the unit cost, my estimate is almost exactly half of yours: about 12-1/2 cents per 12 oz mug.
“Yet, I see people all the time who are on Medicaid come in with the latest phones, bags, shoes, expensive nails and designer clothes, driving nicer cars than I do.”
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Medicaid is unconstitutional.
Congress has no power to tax for, fund, or regulate healthcare, Article 1, Section 8.
Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security do not constitute “general Welfare” as they provide for ONLY 18.7% of the population, which is nowhere near “general” or “the whole.”
Please cite the Constitution for a legal basis for Medicaid, Medicare, or Social Security.
America has been illegally conquered and subsumed by communists and their communism.
That Starbucks is a few dollars for 200 days a week. Tell me, investment tychoon, how much a $2000 investment in the market will be able to deal with a $100,000 down payment on a house?
They aren’t stupid. They see that the other options are no better.
It has been some time I’ve read anything by Karl, but this:
“A large population of static, unemployed citizens…”
Sounds a lot like industrial reserve army
Any Marxists out there want to jump in?
Scary! Many Americans have become so dependent upon others helping them and they don’t want to or don’t know how to help themselves anymore.
Jeanne, you’re identifying one leg of the root issue. Self-reliance matters. A constitutional republic depends on citizens who can manage their own economic lives. When that capacity weakens, dependency naturally grows.
The broader question is whether we are intentionally forming citizens with the knowledge, engagement, and self-reliance necessary for self-government. If one leg weakens, the whole structure becomes unstable.
You know, you could write children’s books.
Olly, we live in a consumer centric society created by corporate greed and the need to maintain growing profit margins.
A constitutional Republic becomes a farce when the filthy rich dictate what a republic should be. One preferably benefitting their way of life over the rest. We can’t have the ‘independence’ from the state when we are not able to be independent from the economy of debt that we have. AI and automation are just another way to make more money by eliminating the pesky problem of paying people a decent wage. Because it’s in impediment to higher profit margins.
May I ask a broader question? The grievances you’re describing about concentrated economic power and structural pressures are not entirely unique to our era. The Founding generation operated under mercantilist trade restrictions, debt crises, and limited political representation. They did not even possess a constitutional framework at the outset.
Yet their response was not to concede greater authority upward. It was to cultivate local association, property ownership, and personal agency. They asserted capacity before they secured structure. We still have a constitutional form of government. The deeper question is whether we are forming citizens prepared to exercise agency within imperfect conditions, or whether we are concluding that independence is impossible unless the system is first perfected.
. I’m confusing, conflating a political system and an economic system. They aren’t the same are they?
I’m not conflating them. Political and economic systems are distinct. My point is that in a constitutional republic, citizen capacity is the stabilizing factor shaping how political authority is exercised, which in turn influences downstream economic arrangements. As civic capacity strengthens or weakens, institutional scope adjusts accordingly.
I’m not conflating them. Political and economic systems are distinct. My point is that in a constitutional republic, citizen capacity is the stabilizing factor shaping how political authority is exercised, which in turn influences downstream economic arrangements. As civic capacity strengthens or weakens, institutional scope adjusts accordingly.
Instead of blaming corporate greed, look to the weak-minded and empty pocketed (as in no savings) people who trade up for every new phone, who get tattoos, who buy expensive energy drinks and coffee to go, who cannot/do not cook or pack lunches and therefore eat fast food regularly, who pay for lip fillers and botox and pricey fingernails, who spend $$ for music and TV subscriptions, etc. All this while whining and looking for more taxpayer support!
A private equity company is looking to buy a major electrical supplier in Arizona. They also have a major investment in data center development, a business with a huge electrical energy draw. Their agreement with the public utility commission has been either heavily redacted or under NDA. The current company leadership will, if the sale goes through, get between $10 and $20 Million each. The elected governor fired the elected commission members and replaced them with appointments.
The fun part is that the electrical system will require a massive upgrade to handle data centers, and that will result in a massive rate hike for all the current customers, all paying for the private equity company profits over which they have no influence.
Better yet, part of the plan is to export the locally produced renewable energy from wind turbines and solar power to be sold in other states. These generation facilities were paid for by local customers to keep their electricity prices down and are now being turned as a weapon against them.
But, sure, saving $2,000 a year by skipping Starbucks will more than make up for the $20,000 a year for medical coverage when they are old.
“we live in a consumer centric society”
Absolutely
Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production; and the interest of the producer ought to be attended to, only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer. The maxim is so perfectly self-evident, that it would be absurd to attempt to prove it. But in the mercantile system, the interest of the consumer is almost constantly sacrificed to that of the producer; and it seems to consider production, and not consumption, as the ultimate end and object of all industry and commerce.
Adam Smith
” created by”
Us – consumers, we have the power.
Corporations profit by giving us what we want – that is how a consumer centric society works.
“the need to maintain growing profit margins.”
Where do you think your IRA comes from ?
Absultely investors will seek the highest profit margins.
What do you think makes the economy grow ?
Makes all of us better off ?
Investors provide capital to drive innovation and improve productivity.
When profits are high that means innovation and productivity are high.
That is good for all of us.
“A constitutional Republic becomes a farce when the filthy rich dictate what a republic should be.”
That was more true at our founding that today.
Regardless your claim is nonsense. Everything wrong today is of the LEFTs making – are you saying that was foist on us hy the uber rich ?
” One preferably benefitting their way of life over the rest.”
I have no idea what you are trying to say – but absolutely – are are not all equal
Some of us can critically think others can not
Some a musicians, poets, athelletes
Some are investors.
We are not all equally good at everything.
” We can’t have the ‘independence’ from the state”
What hypocracy – you do not WANT independence from the state.
“when we are not able to be independent from the economy of debt that we have”
Who aside from the federal govenrment borrows money for nothing.
The debt you claim we are all burdened by was US making decisions to pay for a benefit over time.
Whether that is a wise choice or not it was still OUR choice – free people
So your argument is we can never be economically free because if we are we will ghose to borrow money – some wisely a few not ?
” AI and automation are just another way to make more money by eliminating the pesky problem of paying people a decent wage. ”
Absoultely
Every capital improvement ever does that .
But it also frees labor for other uses and thereby raises standard of living.
You are not entitled to a decent wage, you are entitled to the market value of the work you perform.
“Because it’s in impediment to higher profit margins.”
Profit margins are timed to risk – riskier investments lead to higher profits, but greater risk of losses
Average profits are near constant.
Ultimatlely profits are short term – the value of all inovation eventually goes to the consumer with investors constantly having to find new was to improve things to maintain profits.
I am not suggesting we abandon solving real problems. Every society will always face issues that require policy responses. That is part of governing.
The concern is imbalance. If we focus exclusively on downstream solutions while neglecting the formation of citizens capable of self-government, both internally and in civil society, we will find ourselves repeatedly triaging the same problems.
Policy can manage symptoms. Formation shapes behavior. If citizen capacity is weak, government will continually be asked to compensate for that weakness. If citizen capacity is strong, many problems are mitigated before they require intervention.
Our problems are NOT our citizens or their choices they are with out government.
The power to alter or abolish government rests with the people, which presupposes responsibility as well as authority. If citizens are entirely removed from accountability for outcomes, then self-government becomes a contradiction.
“created by”
Us – consumers, we have the power.”
No we don’t. As long as corporations and billionaires can spend more money and effort than everyone else combined they have the power thanks to the Citizens United decision. Bribery is a form of free speech according to SCOTUS. That’s why they make it easier to every time some politician is accused and charged with bribery.
“”Us – consumers, we have the power.”
No we don’t.”
Of course we do the entire economy is structured to deliver what we want and need – you admit that when you claim it is consumerist.
“As long as corporations and billionaires can spend more money and effort than everyone else combined they have the power thanks to the Citizens United decision.”
But they do not – we have a 32T economy We are spending 32T/year and producing 32T/yr.
We dwarf billionaires.
They make their money giving US what we want.
“Bribery is a form of free speech according to SCOTUS. ”
No the prerequisits of speech can not be regulated any more than speech can.
You can not say that you are free as a candidate to speak all you want, but you can not use all those political contrubutions you reived to by a bigger megaphone.
JS, what do the citizens produce as producers currently?
“Of course we do the entire economy is structured to deliver what we want and need”
I want a 6 speed manual transmission SUV.
I want a laptop that doesn’t require a subscription to run a major OS and doesn’t bully me into upgrading.
I want a 3-way light bulb that works with the 3-way switch lamp.
I neither want nor need ethanol in the gasoline or high fructose corn syrup in my ketchup but both are very difficult to avoid.
There are plenty of things that corporations have decided I don’t get to decide.
Wasn’t there an anti trust case about Gates? What happened?
“We” aren’t “forming” citizens. They are influenced by family and friends and develop themselves – to be educated in accord with their interests and abilities, to be thrifty and become self-reliant economically, to be socially adept, to be grateful for all opportunities, etc. etc. All this is not the job of government and taxpayers!
I agree that it is not the job of government to engineer citizens. Formation happens regardless. Families, schools, churches, markets, media, and peer networks all shape habits, expectations, and character. The question is not whether citizens are being formed. They are. The question is toward what.
It seems self-evident that every country produces a dominant civic type over time. Some cultivate self-reliant, independent citizens. Others cultivate more passive or dependent ones. Most fall somewhere in between. Political systems do not operate independently of that formation. Power flows toward whatever formation becomes dominant.
Our constitutional republic was designed for citizens capable of self-government. It assumes agency, discipline, and economic independence. If civil society does not intentionally cultivate that capacity, governance becomes increasingly managerial by default.
The real choice before us is whether we form citizens strong enough to exercise authority over their institutions, or drift into a pattern where institutions increasingly exercise authority over them.
Well, it was Obama who said his plan was for the government to take care of people from the cradle to the grave. It’s all about power and control. They will NEVER control me, or have power over me!
Olly, very eloquently put. And spot on.
Thank you sir!
How are your book sales going OLLY? Link to Amazon?
“The broader question is whether we are intentionally forming citizens with the knowledge, engagement, and self-reliance necessary for self-government. If one leg weakens, the whole structure becomes unstable.”
I would suggest that your question should be turned around. Are we (“we” being the primary powers that influence our government, public “education”, and many popular institutions) intentionally forming “citizens” who lack all of those qualities. Although, to me, the question appears rhetorical in nature.
Citizen formation is inevitable. Power is inevitable. If citizens lack the capacity for self government, authority will concentrate where capacity exists. That does not require malign intent. It is structural. History simply shows that weakened civic capacity creates space for opportunism. The durable safeguard is citizen formation.
When you have approximately 31% of households on some form of government assistance, not including Medicare, you are looking at an impossible challenge. Their reasoning is, why should they have to give up what for generations has been free.
I know! But I think it is higher than that.
Perhaps you are one of the rare individuals who slaughters and preserves their own beef for winter?
Post World War II a new Monetary system was created. The United States dollar has been the world’s primary reserve currency for over 60 years. Under the Bretton Woods system, the dollar was pegged to gold and most other currencies were pegged to the dollar. As a result of this arrangement, dollars were used as the main intervention currency and, hence, reserve currency.
Just before the end of World War II, many people were killed for the debts that had accumulated by Nations, People had to be eliminated in order to eliminate the debts, putting an end to their monetary system, in order to instate a new Monetary system (the Bretton Woods system).
8+ Billion People now inhabit the earth, a reduction in this population will come either by Nature or Man to restore balance. The times are ripe, both Monetarily (Debt Cancellation), Technologically, and Sustainability (Over-Population) for a new Monetary system once again. We are on the cusp of a Holocaust once again.
The Mamdani Solution – NYC
(a.k.a.: The Social Security Soylent Solution)
The Scoop’s are coming
It is a shame that so many middle class workers are living just beyond their means and have large credit card debt and little or no savings. It proves that advertising is very effective in convincing so many to live beyond their means by purchasing so much that truly isn’t needed. Do you really need a TV in every room of your over-sized house? That is just one example; but there are hundred of more ways that average Americans have been convinced that they need a yearly vacation some where, a bathroom for every bedroom plus, the latest gadgets and electronics, so much that clutters our lives while promising us luxury and comfort. I do not understand how people can enjoy an extravagant vacation somewhere while putting it on an over-loaded credit card and still enjoy themselves while knowing that they truly cannot afford it yet feel compelled to purchase it for some societal prompting that says their American life would not be complete without it. I have no pity for them but I do have a fear for my children who will be burdened with all of these spenders as they age out into retirement and have to be cared for by someone younger. This is going to explode even the most carefully conservative budget and few are paying attention to this.
So you’re proposing we should all live like you do and be constantly angry at everyone who’s not as perfect as you? And, especially, do not help the needy and the poor. Is that about right? Asking for a friend.
Dear anonymous: You are not asking for a friend, you are being a jerk. I had massive debt when I got out of law school and it took a long time to pay it down. I do not use my credit cards and pay outrageous interest because it is stupid to do so. I simply live within my means and do everything I can to sock every dime possible into a retirement savings. If I have a home project, I save for it then do it instead of paying 20% to the bank for putting it on a credit card or taking out a bridge loan on the house. I don’t believe in immediate self gratification, I’ve learned patience and to pay as I go. You may consider being responsible instead of insulting those who are responsible……just a thought!
If he had that thought, it would be his first.
“If he had that thought, it would be his first.”
It might be so starting that it would cause he/she/it to stroke out. I’m rooting for that thought…
Dear Allie : You are being a jerk.
Obviously you didn’t understand her condescending and hateful rant towards poor people… I have no pity, she fears only for her children, jealous pf people who enjoy their wealth (can’t take it with you – eh), multiple bathrooms. How is it possible she has so much hate and anger towards the unfortunate., the frivolous too. Seriously, that self obsessed ranter is someone you identify with? I don’t. Sure make this about you, as always, another self centered Karen. As for your personal financial habits, who gives a toot. Really?
Anonymous…..Lmaorotf 🤦♀️🤣obviously you give a toot or you wouldn’t have responded like I hit a nerve for pointing out responsibility and patience are good things.
Projecting are we?
I, myself have been homeless at 23 when my parents died, I have lived as the breadwinner of a family of 4 by working 40 hrs/week in a factory, but I also learned to not go into debt. I created a business plan while working in a factory and opened my own business that is now in its 3rd generation of operation and I, as a widow, learned that there is no one going to help you but yourself. You do not like my posts because they expose the pernicious and damaging ideology of living to excess and the burden it places on so many. You do not care for my political, historical and societal analysis based on my 50+ years holding a BA in history that enlightened me as to some of the timeless causes of societal and national breakdowns that are being repeated today by those willfully ignorant of such facts. You are the pesky joke of this sight and we all tolerate you only because we cannot block you.
Mr. Turley, don’t believe this partisan organization. Total retirement plan assets per capita have increased from $41,000 in the year 2000 to $117,000 in 2024. See U.S. Retirement Assets Hit $40T – DC plan assets increased 1.9% from March, finds the Investment Company Institute.
https://401kspecialistmag.com/u-s-retirement-assets-hit-40t/
You made the exact same post twice. Are you an idiot?
My opinion, Professor Turley is prescient with this column. I’m glad somebody is raising this issue. It’s starting to look like the Luddites will finally be proven right with a vengeance.
The existential problem facing the West is that if we satisfy the Luddites by redistributing wealth while China and Russia direct their wealth toward war machines, the bad guys will eventually overtake us. All the more insane is that we’ve spent the last 40 years giving away our critical manufacturing to China. Anyone who opposes tariffs against China in this context is a both a fool and a traitor, and yet they oppose and won’t explain why. The real answer is short-term greed, not inflation fighting. Never underestimate the power of liberal Kool-Aid spiked with dark money.
Given AI and robotics, the threats will only accelerate. I’m glad somebody more important than me shares my concern.
Prescient? How about giving Trump’s people credit for the plan. Turley is just a talking head.
So you got a crystal ball for Christmas?
Your phone number is listed on a restroom wall in Hoboken… and it’s your handwriting.
Oh oh, someone is looking for revenge. Change your moniker to Karen, it befits you.
It was Bookers plan.
My bookie has only one plan, empty my bank account.
“It was Bookers plan”
Surely you cannot be referring to Corey Booker? Isn’t having a functioning brain a prerequisite to formulating a plan (no matter how bad)?
Diogenes,
Chinese households save approximately 34%–45% of their disposable income. In contrast, the US personal savings rate is much lower, often hovering around 3%–5%.
Our economy is supported by spending, consumerism. China’s culture of thrift and saving puts their citizens in a better position to weather economic disruptions. We can’t. We need government help when there are serious economic disruptions because the majority of workers live paycheck to paycheck and that is often holding down two or three jobs.
Now AI and automation threatens higher paying jobs and the savings they have are not going to help at all.
Come on george, your stats are irrelevant. If you had a brain you’d be dangerous. Diogenes is a certified crack pot. He thinks he’s a Greek philosopher.
“Chinese households save approximately 34%–45% of their disposable income.”
Likely false – no statistic from China is reliable. Regardless YOU say save – what they do is invest.
Many of them in those homes that will never be finished and are not needed.
“Our economy is supported by spending, consumerism. ”
Every exconomy is – it is a law of economics – see Adam Smith quote the first time you said this.
“China’s culture of thrift and saving puts their citizens in a better position to weather economic disruptions.”
If you were correct that would be true.
It is true that chinese invest more than we do and ordinarily that is good.
But there investment choices are severely limited by government and they mostly invest in boondoggles, like homes that will never be built.
China has a $16T housing bubble – that is a full years GDP.
The US housing bubble was tiny in comparison.
“We can’t.”
Why not ? We have sometime like 7 times the average income, We have much higher standard of living.
We can do anything we want.
” We need government help when there are serious economic disruptions because the majority of workers live paycheck to paycheck and that is often holding down two or three jobs.”
ROFL
When has governemnt intervention worked ?
Do you have 3 jobs ?
BTW all of us live “paycheck to paycheck” – even if we have savings.
Do you have a credit card ? That is borrowing.
Do you have an IRA ? That is saving and investing.
Do you have 3 jobs ? I do
Now AI and automation threatens higher paying jobs and the savings they have are not going to help at all.”
No help needed.
The error of luddites is nothing knew.
Was there a net loss of jobs as spinning jennies were introduced ?
We used few people to produce goods and those displaced did something else productive.
John Say,
“Likely false – no statistic from China is reliable. Regardless YOU say save – what they do is invest.”
Why? Because it’s China? No statistic from the U.S. is reliable because Trump cant be contradicted, right?
China has a long cultural history of thriftiness and an emphasis on saving. We don’t. That’s the harsh simple truth.
“When has governemnt intervention worked ?
Do you have 3 jobs ?”
It worked during COVID. Most working class Americans have more than one job. You didn’t know that? What a sheltered life you must have.
“It is true that chinese invest more than we do and ordinarily that is good.”
Not investment john. Saving. You’re conflating saving money what investment. They save money. They also have much lower debt than the average American.
“Why? Because it’s China?”
Because Chinese data is self contradictory. As an example China claims 5.1% grwoth right now but also claims a decline in government receipts. That is NOT impossible, but it is highly unlikely – especially after many years straigh of supposed 5% GDP.
No one knows what the population of China is to within 1Billion people.
Even those whose estimates are Close to China’s beleive China is off by 100-200Million people.
” No statistic from the U.S. is reliable because Trump cant be contradicted, right?”
Do I trust US governemtn numbers – far more than China’s.
But I trust US government numbers MOST when they are confirmed by multiple sources and when they are consistant accross multiple related areas.
Does our government lie sometimes ? Absolutely, Biden got caught in many large economic lies.
There have been some smallers ones from Trump. But even Biden’s numbers were more trustworthy than Chinas.
“China has a long cultural history of thriftiness and an emphasis on saving.”
They do – and a government that channels that is bad ways.
“We don’t.”
Some of us do, some of us don’t, unlike China we are not a monoculture
But we have far more private investment than China – and that is the actual object.
The purpose of saving is to improve the efficiency of production so we can consume more while spending less.
“It worked during COVID.”
ROFL
” Most working class Americans have more than one job. ”
Total US people – 350M, total US jobs 170M.
“You didn’t know that?”
No, I do not know what goes on in your head, only reality
The Truth is the average jobs per household in the US is 1.
BUT that increases for higher income families.
“What a sheltered life you must have.”
Not true, and not relevant.
“Not investment john. Saving. You’re conflating saving money what investment. They save money.”
Saving, is just investing through others or it is waste.
When you put money in a savings account in a bank – you are saving – but the bank is investing your money.
Regardless the largest single destination for chines money is housing that will neve been complete or occupied.
$16T of it.
” They also have much lower debt than the average American.”
An a 7 times lower standard of living. They can not afford the debt we have.
The chinese government on the other had – we do not know.
We are pretty sure they have massive debt
It is only because they have a closed financial system that is opaque that they get away with their debt.
You keep ranting about China – as if you know anything.
Have you ever been there ?
I have.
My daughter was born in china.
I want the absolute best for China. and for 15 years after we adopted her – China was doing incredible.
Since Xi China has become ever more fascist.
China is in trouble – and we do not know how much.
But it is not small problems.
Retirement accounts are useful tools. But tools do not fix formation. If citizens are not formed for long-term thinking and economic self-reliance, new account structures are bolt ons.
Economic fragility creates a vacuum. Power moves toward whoever has capacity. When self-reliance declines, government management expands. That is structural, not partisan. The long-term solution is forming citizens capable of independence.
Sure Olly, whatever you say. Round of applause for olly.
The corporations, banks, the investor billionaires do not want people saving money. We used to emphasize savings. But that was when everyone made enough to put aside and have more disposable income. That’s no longer true thanks to the eradication of things like pensions, and only needing one job to sustain a family.
We live in a country that runs on spending, consumerism. It’s what keeps billionaire’s pockets filling with cash. Plus we are being nickel and dimed in every possible way now thanks to AI. Most working class families NEED two or three jobs just to afford what is becoming more expensive thanks to the billionaires and corporation’s need for more profits. This is what is leading to the AI and automation problem. Their need for bigger and more profitability by eliminating good paying jobs while seeking for more “creative” ways to make you pay more for less.
In China they have a culture of saving for the future. They have HUGE numbers of people who diligently save for retirement of anything else. It’s ingrained in their culture. Here, “savings” means putting money in investments so hedge fund managers can charge fees and make a profit instead of focusing on the growth of your savings.
Our economy is NOT set up to support saving money. It’s set up to keep spending to support the ultra wealthy and keep corporations profitability climbing.
Modern politics operates downstream by design. Political parties exist to win elections. They are incentivized to respond to immediate voter demands and short-term pressures. Citizen formation, however, is a long-term cultural project that does not align with campaign cycles. This is not hypothetical. As economic self-reliance weakens, citizens increasingly learn to navigate systems rather than exercise independent self-government. That shift is observable.
This is not about party loyalty. It is about incentives. Political parties are built to win elections and manage present demands, not to cultivate long-term citizen capacity. The real question is whether we intentionally form citizens for self-government or allow governance to become primarily administrative.
Best comment I’ve seen about the American savings habits. Just kidding.
I’m stumped, what is a real question? And what does that real question have to do with the national savings rate?
The savings rate is a downstream measure. If we do not address the upstream habits that produce it, we will simply rotate through new symptoms. Today it is savings. Tomorrow it is debt, automation, or wages. Formation determines whether the cycle breaks.
“The corporations, banks, the investor billionaires do not want people saving money. ”
And, what’s the problem with that? See if can understand this simple axiom: you can’t take it with you.
“The corporations, banks, the investor billionaires do not want people saving money.”
Actually they do – corporations want investment always, and banks want savings which THEY invest.
Billionaires may not want competition in investing.
But all the above does not matter – no one put a gun to your head.
Borrow, save, invest – your choice.
“We used to emphasize savings.”
We who ?
You are free to emphasize whatever you want – as am I
“WE” is just the pattern created by our individual actions – that is what liberty – freedom mean.
There is no “WE”, There is just you and I making our own choices and reaping the befits or the losses of our choices.
“But that was when everyone made enough to put aside and have more disposable income.”
Yet people have higher REAL income than ever before, greater REAL purchasing power than ever before.
If we made enough then – we make MORE than enough now.
Differences between now and then are the result of bad government policies, and our choices.
“That’s no longer true thanks to the eradication of things like pensions”
Now we have IRAs that are portable. We have far more job mobility and less employer loyalty
That is a good thing.
“only needing one job to sustain a family.”
We can easily sustain a family on one job today – at a lower standard of living.
We CHOOSE multiple jobs – I have 3 – atleast, because we want to.
We work more so we can have more.
We do not have to we want to.
“We live in a country that runs on spending, consumerism. ”
Every country does.
It is a law of economic.
“Most working class families NEED two or three jobs”
Correct – to afford a higher standard of living.
BTW wages rose in 2025 faster than inflation – that means things got MORE affordable not less.
Everything gets more expensive because the FED forces inflation.
Inflation is always and everwhere a monetary phenomena
Milton Friedman
There is no AI or automation problem
standard of ling = the value humans produce / the human effort needed to produce it.
Rising standard of living ALWAYS means using less human effort to produce more value. Automation, AI.
Steam engines, the spinning jenny, the tractor, the car,
Every single improvement in productivity means doing more with less human labor ALWAYS
AI and automation are best might do so a bit more rapidly
Regardless another law of economic is “supply creates its own demand”
If there is lots of free skilled labor – we will find a use for it.
“Their need for bigger and more profitability by eliminating good paying jobs”
Yup, it is called rising productivity and it is ALWAYS the way standard of living rises.
“In China they have a culture of saving for the future. ”
Probably – but that is not what is happening.
They are wastefully saving – because govenrment gave them no choice.
China is in trouble.
You should not be looking to the CCP as an example,
“They have HUGE numbers of people who diligently save for retirement of anything else.”
No mostly they invest in homes thaat will never be finished.
“It’s ingrained in their culture.”
Possibly – BTW saving IS investing.
“Here, “savings” means putting money in investments so hedge fund managers can charge fees and make a profit instead of focusing on the growth of your savings.”
You are free to put your money in a bank at 2% or an IRA at 7% or …
What do billionaires do ? They put their money in hedgefunds.
“Our economy is NOT set up to support saving money. ”
Of course it is – where do you think the money making AI possible is coming from ?
No mention of social security!
That is because it is not about social security per se, rather personal security.
. SS is enough to buy food, no shelter, no clothes, no transportation of course deduct Medicare payments from the food allotment.
Old folks are expected to live with the dutiful children they reared as shelter bringing with them their SS food payment within the household and babysitting in home, cooking and cleaning.
We know your children are pleased with that schema. We see your children at the protests daily. 😏
Did you read the article? He mentions it’s problems and need to reform and how both party politicians refuse to address it. SS must be reformed and transition into a type of TPS that federal workers enjoy.
The Professor did mention Social Security, although his post is really about personal retirement savings.
One thing he said I am not so sure about. He said “Despite assurances made when Congress established the system, Congress has continued to draw on Social Security funds to avoid reducing spending levels.” If Congress really made such an assurance back in the 1930’s when SS was first created, they certainly did not ever intend to honor those assurances. The federal government has immediately diverted to the general fund and spent every penny of excess SS contributions (those amounts above what are needed for current SS benefit payments) every single month since the beginning of Social Security.
The massive trust fund that allegedly contains those excess funds is really nothing more than fictional. It is a giant IOU that Congress has no intention of ever paying back. When the current SS contributions start to get close to no longer providing an excess into the general fund, they kick up the fear campaign (always amplified by AARP and others) about SS going broke soon and having to cut benefits. They never talk about drawing down on the massive trust fund because all that money was spent years, decades, even generations ago, and to draw down on it would require taking money from the general fund rather than putting excess contributions into it. So eventually they will increase the payroll deduction (with all the usual Congresscritters out proclaiming they have “saved” Social Security) and then everything is fine until the next time the contribution levels start to get close again to not providing an excess for the general fund. That is the way Social Security really works. Things would be significantly different if they had actually been investing the excesses from the beginning rather than adding them to the general fund so they can be spent right away on everything else.
Gonna be needen some STYMIE, some UBI, some free WAYMO, some free UBER EATS, some CANCEL THE RENT – We want everything free! I know – Let’s vote for AOC, Bernie, and Mamdani The Commie because they have promised everything can be FREE, right? We simply take every dollar from the top 50% and WA LA my life is good and the top 50% join the bottom and we have 100% Terrible. Problem Solved. MORONS.
Still drunk eh?
“Let’s vote for AOC, Bernie, and Mamdani The Commie because they have promised everything can be FREE, right? ”
You (inadvertently, I presume) left Knavin Gruesome off your list.
When I was growing up, the general feeling among all us kids was that you must take responsibility for yourself in life. “Nobody owes you anything,” was a fact of our lives. So we saved, even as kids. Trump 403b-type accounts are good, but when children feel a lifelong safety net prevails, the outcomes are doubtful.
Good lord, why do these geriatrics always think they are a special lot and should learn from them? Its 2026. Write your biography, see if anyone buys it.
“When I was growing up, the general feeling among all us kids was that you must take responsibility for yourself in life.”
When I was a kid I (and most of the other kids I knew) I saved because I wanted things that my parents refused to buy for me. I do have to tell you that I don’t recall any deep discussions regarding the need for self-sufficiency among the neighborhood 10 year olds…
Seriously JT! A meaningmless survey.
Seriously ERB … got a better source, than just whining publicly.
“NIRS conducts high-quality research on retirement issues, with a strong emphasis on the value of defined benefit (DB) pension plans and innovative strategies to expand retirement security. Its research informs public debate and policy development through reports, briefings, webinars, and its annual Retirement Policy Conference in Washington, D.C.”
Source: https://www.loc.gov/item/lcwaN0009017/
Read it before whining.
the 21st Century, it will require developing new areas of “homocentric” jobs … read that healthcare is up and coming. Someone has to take care of all the sick illegals and transsexuals.
how it works. 2008 wall street gambling destroy the market. Next 15 years…federal reserve prints $8 Trillion, US Treasury prints $30 Trillion Dollars
virtually all rewards goes to Wall Street for gambling. To boot, Democrats import 10 million replacement workers to destroy wages and steal jobs.
How about we FORCE wall street to INVEST
a 2% tax on the GROSS of all Wall Street Trades(Bonds, stocks, commodities, etc) or moving money offshore
if I invest in a new car or tool I pay a 6% Sales taxes
That way Wall Street stops money spinning and is FORCED to invest in business to GROW!
Oh BTW…The Average family of 4 OWES $500,000 of Federal Debt….that we printed to RESCUE WALL STREET and FAILED government!
FORCE wall street to INVEST … they already pay taxes on declared profits, its the unrealized harbors the trillions needed to rebuild. Opps, I sound like a CA liberal. My bad.
Somebody has a bone to pick with Wall St. …. I’d use that bone to clobber Jamie Dimon.
Highlighting “FORCE” for you my forceful friend who knows better than us. Go ahead,
Job losses caused by AI… farming is fun.
If they take Trump’s name off this new type of account, it may be more widely accepted
wall street will just figure a way to steal the money!
I’m guessing they already have their fingers in the pot. Reminds me of Geo. W. Bush’s idea … SS accounts mandated to be managed by Wall St. only.
. ANYONE can invest in the stock market. What is that investment? An investment in American business. Please do. Vanguard and Blackrock invest in Walmart and you can, too. It’s still family owned at 51%. No doubt they have a very large investment. They are capitalists and capital is tied into buildings and property. Operating costs include maintenance and payroll for 2 million employees. They have dividends to pay to Joe Blow and Joe likes that for retirement.
Maybe SS might invest in manufacturing? I’d like to see Dawn soap return instead of getting a bottle that says Dawn but contains some junk called Fabuloso that can’t clean a water spot. That’d be nice. 😏
Yep, tax the capitalists and small investors too and raise the social welfare payments. Makes sense because the capitalists will cut jobs and the new unemployment will need social welfare and less product produced will add to inflation. That’s a plan.
may be? Maybe not. So those who don’t take part because of a word, lose, so more money for the smart ones.
No reflection on you, but we can’t fix stupid.