Yesterday, we discussed how UCLA medical school has been accused of racial discrimination in admissions. Now Yale School of Medicine has also been accused of “intentionally select[ing] applicants based on their race” in knowing circumvention of Supreme Court precedent.
The Justice Department announced that “Yale’s documents reveal that they studied how to use racial proxies to circumvent the Supreme Court’s prohibition on using race to select students…admissions data demonstrate that Black and Hispanic students have a much higher chance of admission to Yale than White or Asian students with the same test scores.”
Assistant Attorney General Harmeet Dhillon added on X that “a black applicant is 29 times more likely to be invited to interview than an Asian with equally strong academics.”
As discussed yesterday, many of us predicted that schools would knowingly evade such rulings and regulations.
After the historic ruling in the Harvard and North Carolina cases barring the use of racial criteria in admissions, administrators and academics admitted what they had long denied: that race was having a major role in admissions.
In anticipation of the rulings, many schools, including the California system, eliminated standardized testing. Without objective scores, there is less ability to identify the use of non-scholastic criteria for admissions. By eliminating or devaluing standardized testing, admissions offices can use the more subjective essays to achieve the same race-based results.
I wrote about how administrators were already preparing to use essays as an indirect way to achieve the same identifications and preferences in admissions. The essay “prompts” encourage students to effectively self-identify by discussing incidents where they faced discrimination. The shift to the essays would allow the removal of high-scoring students while elevating those with lower scores. That prediction was quickly confirmed, as top candidates were rejected based on their essays, while schools used essays to flag their backgrounds.
Interviews can serve the same function as an alternative to formal self-identification and race-based scoring.
Faculty and administrators at UCLA and other schools remain adamant in using race-based admissions. They simply justify discrimination as equity and diversity.
These schools remain hardened silos of race-based practices and policies. The same faculty and administrators are unlikely to yield unless compelled to do so. In the meantime, they will spend copious amounts of money and time fighting for differential treatment based on race. The hope is that a new Democratic administration will not enforce these rules and allow such circumvention to continue in admissions.
‘The hope is that a new Democratic administration will not enforce these rules and allow such circumvention to continue in admissions.’
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Heaven help us if there is another dem administration over the next couple of decades. Disavowing generational liberals of the mental phantoms of a ‘better’ dem party is like pulling teeth. This IS the dem party. Now and going forward into the foreseeable future.
Heaven help us if there is another dem administration over the next couple of decades…. the so-called battle is already lost. Conservatives just plain f-ed up over the past 2 decades, complacency set in, their arrogance tricked them into thinking they had some control. Its over for the conservatives… the latest generations have already been indoctrinated, as you were 60+ years ago. You’re gen is dying off, you have no influence anymore. Your vote means nothing.
@Anonymous
I don’t know how young you are to consider someone over 40 ‘old’ (guessing pretty young), but no, my generation is in the prime of life, and we are very healthy, you’re thinking of our parents; a lot of them are already gone, they weren’t a super huge factor in the *last* election. More and more of us who are actual centrists (not conservatives) and always have been are rejecting the modern left outright.
Really – the radical left are still a minority in the voting bloc, just very vocal and well-funded with a complicit media. The Boomers seem to be the ones dying young, relatively speaking, and they are the anti-Vietnam, ‘vote blue no matter who’ crowd, so it’s actually the other way around. Sorry. 🤷🏻♂️
I got it!
Make a mockery of the process.
All the white and Asian applicants, knowing they are 29 times lest likely to get a invite to a interview, in their essay self-identify as Mexican/Kenyan/Venezuelan/Haitian/etc.
And then write some over the top essay about their “struggles.”
Upstate – haha, that would be hilarious.
Reminds me of an incident my eldest son related to me when he was attending a liberal arts college. One of the woke coeds started angrily chewing him out about his privilege, etc., and he responded that he identified as a black lesbian. When he said that, she completely changed her tone, said, “Oh, then no worries,” and walked away happy.
OFK
LOL…………..That’s great.
“she completely changed her tone, said, “Oh, then no worries,” and walked away happy”
That leaves the question of what kind of rigged process allowed a moronic d1p$h1t like her to be admitted.
Upstate, I think they’re doubling down just to annoy the rest of us. Look at The Odyssey. The casting must be intended to mock anyone who values traditional literature. Talk about cultural appropriation: “It’s ok when we do it!” So much of this from the left seems so outrageous that it has to intended as a stick in the eye. 29 times more likely?!?
All they’re doing is reminding us of why more and more people can’t stand them anymore and why we need to take back our institutions.
In “Hamilton” the title character was played by a black man.
Diogenes – the Bee is reporting that Nolan has actually cast Steve Buscemi as Helen of Troy.
https://babylonbee.com/news/too-far-christopher-nolan-casts-steve-buscemi-as-helen-of-troy
Hilarious!
Spaceballs? It’s humor?
Now why would they do that? The app process requires pictures among other detailed personal info. Obviously you ‘re far far away from reality.
Wrong! The reality is that they are ‘transracial’, and anyone who doubts their self-assigned, self-identified racial identity is either a racial bigot or a race hustler.
-g
If they have pictures, why would they need “prompts” in the essays to self-identify as a minority?
A dose of honesty: White America has declined in intellectual competitiveness, seduced by entertaining distractions…social media…video games…Netflix…sports gambling. There are exceptions of serious white young kids, but their numbers have shrunk.
College Admission committees now have the job of preventing an Asian-American takeover of elite America 25 years from now. That’s the motive for racial discrimination in admissions. They shift attention away from this motive by making the controversy about retaining black and brown “diversity”. That’s just a convenient fig leaf. Blocking Asian-Americans to protect unearned white privilege is the crux of the game.
Think this over before arguing for a race-blind meritocracy. It means white parents will have to be stricter and more goal-oriented when raising children.
Could be. Bet the whites who do get in are the kids of lib parents, the real white privileged.
I know students that were considering med school and the doctors they interacted with told them not to do it. It was no longer worth the time and efforts. Insurance companies, lawyers and long long hours of no life and multiple ex wives…
Got proof, got names? Of course not. Your talking shite.
Any parent should be stricter with goal orientation for their children. In today’s society there are plenty of people that impress with college degrees that mean nothing. Then there are those that have no college degree but because of their upbringing can run circles around others. I could be wrong but aren’t there less prestigious med. schools that people could go to to get certified. In the end, for doctors, it is the patients via social media today that determine if they are good.
pbinca,
“It means white parents will have to be stricter and more goal-oriented when raising children.”
That should be the goal of all parents.
Totally. Meritocracy does not mean family-lineage competition (inherited privilege)…it means individual competition. Slacker parents tend to deprive their kids of opportunity. J.D. Vance is the exception, not the rule.
But things get murky for attaining a pure individual meritocracy, because our social networks are not all that well integrated. And social networking is FREQUENTLY a factor in in hiring decisions, because trust is foundational to merit selection.
This implies we have to better integrate our social networks before increasing the level of meritocracy.
Most older Americans have been turned down for something we were qualified to do because we didn’t know the right people.
This is infuriating. Defund them. Use the public money to support institutions with accountability. Liberals hate using their own money. Make them put their own money where their virtue signaling is. Let’s see how long it lasts.
This is infuriating.
It should not. Favoritism has been a cherished tradition within medical education (meded) for millennia.
If you want to understand the trajectory that you see today in meded, you need to understand to what they are reacting: the
Flexner Report.
The Flexner Report was published in 1910, commissioned by the Carnegie Foundation, and written by Abraham Flexner. Meded was led since mid 1800s by the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC). Flexner was what AAMC used as a rubric to determine how medical schools should be structured, curriculum, admission standards and so forth. Prior to Flexner, there were scores of medical schools that were schools of quackery. Flexner got rid of many of those dubious medical schools. It wasn’t until the 1940s that the American Medical Education (AMA) injected themselves into meded when they partnered with the AAMC.
When the AMA went downhill, particularly with their bludgeoning of us AMA members to support Obamacare, it was then that meded took a decisively Marxist turn vis a vis: equity, racial disparities, anti-racism, EMR, HIPPA, and more
Understand Flexner and the AAMC/AMA monopoly, then you understand why Yale and all US medical schools do what they do.
Here is an excellent summary of Flexner, AAMC/AMA and where we are today:
Abraham Flexner — Academic Medicine’s Favorite Scapegoat
https://physicianoutlook.com/2022/03/16/abraham-flexner-academic-medicine/
Estovir, thank you for this useful information!
Youre welcome Catherine.
“When the AMA went downhill, particularly with their bludgeoning of us AMA members to support Obamacare,”
Estovir, it actually happened long before that, in 1983. The AMA made a secret deal with the government, which granted it a monopoly on the CPT codes, where the AMA retained the copyright. The government used the codes for free, but all insurers, hospitals, and physicians were forced to pay for the books and licenses the AMA issued. Today, the AMA’s funding is predominantly derived from these codes.
“a black applicant is 29 times more likely to be invited to interview than an Asian with equally strong academics.”
Suppose that statement read: “A black driver is 29 times more likely to be stopped by the police.” The Left would immediately scream: Racism! Yet when that same racial disparity favors blacks, the Left cheers.
Such are the obvious contradictions of a movement that is not in principle against racism.
There is a reason why that statistic is severely flawed. It relies only on GPA’s. Nothing else. Getting admitted into an Ivy League school takes more than a stellar GPA score. Even Chief Justice Roberts understood that. Character, grit, and cultural awareness also factor into the admissions process and an essay showing that also counts.
Conservatives are big into the whole ‘character’ argument. But now it isn’t because a few Asian and white students didn’t make the cut despite having stellar GPA’s. That shows schools don’t just lol at scores. They look at the overall person, personality, character, and life experiences.
Trump’s DOJ is looking at it the same way Trump would. As a purely transactional view. That only the highest scoring students are deemed the best because only the best are the highest scoring. If that were true. Trump couldn’t have been the best businessman or mass it into Wharton because he had the highest and best scores. His daddy made sure he got in regardless of his score. He’s obviously not a stable genius or was ever a top student at Wharton. He was not an honors student or made the deans list.
Clearly he doesn’t want anyone to see his true record. He was not a top student.
“It relies only on GPA’s. Nothing else.”
That is false. Yet again, you’re just making stuff up.
See the DOJ’s findings and Yale’s own admissions docs.
If a black driver is stopped by police 29 times more often than asian drivers, is this because there are 29 times more blacks in the local population? Or is it that blacks violate the traffic laws 29 times more than asian drivers? Or does this depend on the race of the policeman?
We need more information.
This comparison fails because driving a car and applying to medical school are completely different processes. Traffic stops happen randomly on the road. Medical school admissions are a deeply organized, multi-step process where every single applicant is reviewed individually.
The “29 times more likely” statistic being thrown around is highly misleading. It strips away every single non-academic variable that medical schools care about. Invitations to interview are not based on a single test score. They are based on the entire primary application package. This includes years of verified hospital experience, published scientific research, leadership roles, and letters of recommendation.
If a Black applicant with a 3.8 GPA gets an interview and an Asian applicant with a 3.8 GPA does not, it is not a random traffic stop. It is because the first applicant brought a stronger overall package, like hundreds of hours of hands-on patient care or unique leadership skills, that matched the medical school’s specific mission.
We do not need to guess or invent traffic analogies to understand this. The data from the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is public. It consistently shows that accepted students of all backgrounds must achieve exceptionally high average GPAs between 3.7 and 3.9. Trying to reduce a complex, holistic evaluation of a future doctor down to a simple driving statistic ignores how medical selection actually works.
Fabulous, Wiseoldlawyer!
Want to end this fast? Force colleges to diversify their football and basketball teams so that they reflect the racial composition of society. More Hymie Schwartz’s on the Ohio State offensive line!!!!
Are you suggesting merit should only be applied to sports. Oh the irony! Just hope if I ever need surgery I don’t get the short straw on merit.
Race based admissions are seen as virtuous, presumably to make up for discrimination even though for eighty years, minorities have been on equal if not superior legal footing with whites due to the Civil rights legislation, Supreme Court decisions, state and local laws. What is mystifying to me is that the “virtue” the professors and administrators and politicians preach so loudly and that so many black leaders demand rarely includes Jews who not only endured slavery but experienced actual genocide in Germany and continue to experience the threat of genocide today and were in the front lines in the battle for civil rights for blacks. And in spite of hundreds of thousands of their fellow Americans demonstrating in support of those who are pledged to the eradication of Jews, they still excel in so many areas and still embrace American values and institutions. Mystifying indeed.
That should read “sixty” years.
Honestlawyer – thank you for that, those things are rarely acknowledged in recent yeares.
When you said the Jews were on the front lines of the Civil Rights movement, it made me think: The Jews are now on the front lines in an even more existential battle for western civilization – the battle against global jihadism. In battling evil forces such as Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, and the Islamic Republic of Iran, they are doing the necessary dirty and deadly work of keeping the forces of darkness at bay, all the while some people sit fat and sassy in the west and blame them for all of society’s ills.
“Race based admissions are seen as virtuous”
I don’t understand how any right-thinking individual can believe today’s affirmative action functions appropriately in representing themselves and others. Patrick Chavis obtained Allan Bakke’s seat at the University of California medical school. He was cited as the champion of affirmative action, but none of those citing its successes bothered to cite his abysmal failure. His medical license was suspended for gross negligence and incompetence. He had at least one negligent death and many grossly negligent injuries. I believe this type of racist advancement makes the individual feel entitled to quicker success than is advantageous for the individual or society.
In my opinion, affirmative action has been a disaster for society. I don’t think the reputation of black physicians was accelerated by people understanding what affirmative action is. Why should a person be satisfied with a doctor whose academic career was substandard?
The individual is also frequently injured. Thomas Sowell points this out many times, where a minority is advanced above their present abilities, only to fail when they could have done better elsewhere.
S. Meyer– I agree. Aside from the damage done by those who were pushed to the head of the line regardless of merit, an “unintended” consequence of affirmative action has been to unfairly stigmatize those minorities who truly have worked hard to achieve success. I say “unintended” in quotes because I do not believe there ever was a laudable intent on the part of those who pushed affirmative action. You don’t stop racism by becoming a racist any more than you stop street crime by robbing a liquor store.
The “holistic criteria” defense is easy to test.
Imagine a future administration told Yale that federal funding would now depend on admitting more students from rural conservative counties, military families, religious colleges, and politically underrepresented viewpoints.
Race is never mentioned.
It is all called “institutional priorities,” “viewpoint diversity,” and “holistic review.”
Yale would instantly understand what was happening. They would say the government was using indirect standards to engineer political and demographic outcomes.
And they would have a point. Which is exactly the point here.
No one argues that grit, hardship, life experience, service, or mission fit should not matter. Of course those things matter.
The problem begins when subjective standards are intentionally used as proxies to reach outcomes the Court has already said cannot be pursued directly.
A principle only means something if you still defend it when the other side starts using it too.
Olly, your argument fundamentally misunderstands what a principle is. If a future administration told Yale to select more students from rural towns, military families, or religious colleges, Yale would not have to guess. They already do exactly that.Elite universities openly seek out geographic and viewpoint diversity. They actively recruit kids from rural farming communities, veterans, and students with unique perspectives because a campus full of identical mindsets makes for a poor learning environment. These are already fully accepted, legally valid “institutional priorities”.
Your critical flaw is assuming that evaluating a student’s lived experience is a dishonest “proxy” to break the law. Chief Justice John Roberts addressed this exact distinction in the majority opinion of SFFA v. Harvard. He explicitly wrote that nothing in the law stops a school from considering how an applicant’s life was shaped by their heritage or discrimination.
The legal boundary is clear: a school cannot give a student a generic bonus point just for checking a demographic box. However, they are absolutely allowed to reward an individual student who writes an essay showing the grit, perspective, or empathy they built while overcoming hard times. Treating people as unique individuals based on their real life experiences is not an indirect trick. It is the exact definition of a true holistic review.
X: “Campus full of identical mindsets makes for a poor learning environment.” Really? Did you learn that from some DEI 101 class? Does that mean, for example, that an education at an all girls Catholic school is not a good one? Remember X, these students are there to study medicine and not try to cure the past wrongs of society. We future patients want the most qualified doctors based on merit not skin color, sex, or sexual preference.
TTC: “X” is one of those gullible know-it-alls who believes what AI and Google searches tell him. You can tell how gullible he is by the nature of his lifting and rewording texts from those left-leaning-RATED sources, as well as his writing styles and phrases he copycats off this very blog. Just ignore him, although you are right.
He’s wrong. What you didn’t tell TTC is that you can’t refute the facts.
X the CLown, YOU are the one who did not cite Facts. You cited subjective conclusions. Are you smart enough to know the difference. I am ready and waiting to knock down any “factual” matter you might post, clown
Problem is I already gave facts. It’s you who can’t figure out how to verify them. Obviously you’re not smart enough. Not surprised.
You repeated the same mistake, X. What you claim as “fact’ is actually your own interpretation of conclusions you drew according to what you were reading. CITE YOUR SOURCES and the data.
LOL! You think the same gender equals the same mindset. Hilarious.
Apparently you think “merit” just means high scores. How little you think. Merit means more than just high scores. Apparently you don’t understand what merit means.
Apparently YOU don’t understand what tryingtoclarify was saying. Apparently YOU don’t think that student admissions personnel are replacing high test scores with life experiences that have little relation to how students will perform in STEM courses and careers that require HIGH capacity thinking. How little you think, clown. Apparently tryingtoclarify understands what merit means more than you do
They are not replacing high test scores you nitwit. They are including everything, even high test scores. High scores are not the only criteria they use for admissions. They can judge character and life experiences as well. Apparently you don’t understand that even ‘lower’ scoring students can still ‘outperform’ higher scoring students by having better character, and traits that would make a good doctor.
High capacity thinking is not always determined by high test scores. That’s what you don’t understand. Keep trying.
maybe YOU should keep trying, because you are failing to convince us. It is apparent that the writer @10:36 means that the importance and ranking of high test scores is being replaced by other, less important factors. I understood this even before reading your reply. What a goon you are. Why are you so negative, and so wrong so often? Just let it be, X.
X: Me thinks you protest too much. I know what merit doesn’t mean. It doesn’t mean one gets preferential treatment based on skin color, sex, or sexual preference. Rather, merit – for purposes of this discussion – means that the individual has some earned accomplishments totally unrelated to immutable characteristics.
But you can’t prove they are using preferential treatment just on skin color, sex, or sexual preference. You’re assuming they are because the only criteria you’re using is GPA scores. It’s a lot more than just stellar GPA scores.
At the end of your response you magically ended up agreeing with me, “ Rather, merit – for purposes of this discussion – means that the individual has some earned accomplishments totally unrelated to immutable characteristics.”
How do you express those accomplishments? Thru an essay, letters of recommendation and lived experiences. None of that depends on skin color or sex
X: come on X, you know better than to use straw man fallacies…
Apparently you don’t know what a straw man fallacy is. Care to show us what the fallacy is?
Tryingtoclarify to X: Hello, here is your classic straw man: “LOL! You think the same gender equals the same mindset. Hilarious.” I think no such thing. But you set it up to blow it down.
You didn’t show what the fallacy is. I see you are having trouble with understanding what a strawman is. Keep at it. You’ll eventually get it.
Trying to clarify to X: “You’re assuming they are because the only criteria you’re using is GPA scores.” Another one of your straw man fallacies.
You haven’t shown us evidence they are using more than GPA. Care to try?
Trying to clarify to X: I informed you that admissions should be based on merit. You incorrectly assumed that merit was only GPA. I told you, merit was accomplishments. You need to look up the word accomplishment. It can be many things in addition to GPA. It could be research, etc
I didn’t think so. Thanks.
“Thanks.” another copycat example learned on this blog. We can go back several months and see that georgie NEVER said that back then.
The key in much of the is The Accreditation Commission of Colleges of Medicine. They set the standards for accreditation and have done so for decades. Back when DEI and Trans philosophy was being pushed so hard it was the accreditation groups who were doing the pushing. This caused some fallout in various medical schools because you simply would not get accredited if you did not push DEI and Trans services. The trans services were especially fought over because of the lack of science supporting the trans philosophy (and which has become obvious in the last few years) yet accreditation hinged on this and DEI requirements. It was difficult to fight this because the answer was always “we have to do this or we get no accreditation” and that would end the argument.
The Dept of Education recognizes this group as the accrediting force in American Medical Schools. You want to get DEI and racism out of admissions, then go to the ACCM and start twisting arms and filing lawsuits. They try to fly under the radar but I would suspect they have a procedure all laid out on how to discriminate without losing accreditation. (No verification but a strong suspicion).
It has, I suspect, invaded other accrediting bodies.
If I was going to send the FBI to raid an office the ACCM would be the first place I would ask for a warrant.
Hospitals, Medical schools, Medical groups, Urgent Care Centers, Outpatient Surgicenters, Outpatient Radiology, etc all have accreditations Groups but nobody talks about them and they have enormous power.
GEB,
Thank you for that insight.
GEB, thank you for sharing that information. I am beginning to understand how difficult it would be to unwind the status quo.
It is becoming very clear the only way to rein this Lawlessness on the Constitution is to attach criminal penalties to such actions to include Elected Officials, Appointed Officials, Judges and Lawyers.
So what? Using racial proxies is legal. If Rs can use racial proxies to create racist gerrymandered maps, then schools can use proxies also.
You got that totally wrong.
The SC ruled race base gerrymandering maps was un-Constitutional. That is what Democrats were doing. That is why they are having such a fit. The SC already ruled race based admissions was un-Constitutional. So what these schools are doing is illegal.
See the reply by UpstateFarmer.
See UpstateFarmer’s reply
Why don’t you do some critical thinking instead of just spitting out something that is obviously incorrect.
Sally, your comment makes two points that are both legally wrong.
Have you read the most recent SCOTUS case on gerrymandering based on race?
As a parent of a child who atteneded an elite small college. I sat in the crowd as the College President said…with the ruling that race can’t be used in admissioned….they planned to identify RACE via other ways beyond just directly asking!
They were TOTAL racists…I saw dorms at Cornell…that were BLACK ONLY!
It is horrifying how RACIST Liberals are!
Time to END FEderal Aid to colleges….it isn’t being used well!
Well, using Cornell as an example of ingrained anti-white racism is entirely appropriate. They have more than one race-based dormitory. They have had black-only graduation ceremonies there too. Dozens of race based campus groups. Viewpoint diversity left campus in 1969 when the armed thugs took over the student union and were never even disciplined but are considered heros in Ithaca.
How about we JAIL these RACIST liberals?
Based on what? And, got proof of racism?
Jailing racists won’t go over well in the south. You would have to put half the white population in prison.
I think that’s a gross exaggeration. It’s also naive about the existence of black racism in the south (blacks who feel justified in treating fellow blacks better than they treat whites). There’s no solid data, but I’d estimate:
white (anti-black) racists: 10% of southern population
black (anti-white) racists: 15% of southern population
These are a 25% minority, and they are split into polarized adversaries, but the numbers are large enough to cause problems.
All Republican voters are racist. If they were not racist they would not vote Republican.
Sally
Do you believe that only white people in the South are racist? Blacks, Asians and Hispanics contribute to that category as well, perhaps even more so.
Please enlighten us all as to how your continued disdain for Conservatism would differ from racism and why the freedom to choose what or who on likes or dislikes would be a “jailing offense”.
Sally: Check your meds. You are writing stupid things.
Defund DEMOCRATS
END Federal Aid to cities, states, non-profits and colleges(including student loan backing)
Outlaw public unions the political army of the DEMOCRATS
Democrats are fighting a CIVIL WAR, GOP needs to USE TOTAL WAR against them!
Whatever happened to the conservative mantra plucked from MLK they use all the time. It’s not the race it’s the content of their character? Here Yale is including a prospective student’s character not just their GPA.
Correct. Just not the way the law stipulates it George. Poor argument as usual.
That’s exactly what Yale is doing. It’s not just using GPA to admit students. It’s also admitting them in their overall character not race.
The DOJ is basing their accusations only on GPA data. Having a high GPA is not proof of having good character that creates good doctors. Asians and whites having high GPA’s are not indicators of good character, stamina, and cultural knowledge. For the same reason lower GPA’s from elite schools with more rigorous standards are not the same as lower GPA’s from schools with less rigorous standards. You could have a 4.0 GPA from a school with lower standards and still be less desirable than a student with a 3.6 GPA from an elite school with higher standards.
No its not “that’s exactly” George argument. Your argument is juvenile and senseless.
Wow, talk about irony. You are not making any sense and you don’t have an argument. How juvenile.
You can definitely dig a little deeper into assessing the difference between someone with a 3.65 versus a 4.0 GPA. Secondly how do you automatically assume someone writing an essay is of higher character. That essay could easily be skewed to present exactly what they’re coached to portray
A 3.65 GPA in a super hard major like biochemistry shows more academic strength than a 4.0 in an easy major. Admissions teams look at every single class on a transcript, not just the final number.
A student who gets a 3.65 while working a part-time job to help their family shows amazing grit. Comparing them to a 4.0 student who did not have to work is not a fair match of their potential.
An applicant cannot just fake a good personality on paper. Medical schools require intense, in-person interviews. Interviewers put students in surprise ethical situations where a memorized script instantly fails.
Imagine a student writes an essay about how they never gave up after failing their first chemistry quiz, eventually studying hard to get an A. The admissions team will look at the letter from that chemistry professor. If the professor writes, “This student faced early academic struggles but showed incredible grit by coming to extra tutoring every single week,” the essay is verified as true.
If a student writes a beautiful story about how much they care for sick patients, the school checks the letter from the doctor they shadowed. If the doctor writes, “This student was always on time, connected deeply with our patients, and showed real compassion,” the school knows the essay is honest, not just coached.
“The DOJ is basing their accusations only on GPA data.”
You keep repeating that as a “fact.” Yet that fact is false.
Why won’t you and your sock puppets admit that?
That’s how the law stipulates it. You just don’t like that it’s being applied exactly as the Supreme Court ruled. Therefore you call it racism because it’s not producing the outcome you want.
Nonsense! Just as UCLA’s Med School is doing, the holier-than-thou folks at Yale Med School are looking for black and brown students. And doing their damnest to select as few other skin colors and races as possible.
You have zero proof of your assertion. Assumptions are not evidence.
Turley is wrong and so is the DOJ. I can show you why.
GPA is heavily influenced by course selection and institutional grading rigor. A 3.6 GPA in advanced biochemistry from a top-tier research university often reflects greater academic stamina than a 4.0 in a less demanding curriculum.
Consider Student A with a 3.7 GPA who worked 30 hours a week to support their family. Compare them to Student B with a 3.9 GPA who had no employment obligations. Selecting Student A is a recognition of extraordinary grit, not racial favoritism. A patient never asks for their doctor’s undergraduate GPA. They require diagnostic accuracy, clear communication, and cultural competence—skills evaluated through essays, ethics scenarios, and behavioral interviews.
An applicant with a 3.5 GPA and three years of published, hands-on cancer research brings more immediate value to medical science than an applicant with a 4.0 GPA who has never stepped into a lab.
If a medical school’s core mission is to solve the rural healthcare shortage, they will prioritize a 3.6 GPA applicant from an underserved rural town over a 4.0 applicant who intends to practice exclusively in affluent suburbs.
Also, Turley left out the fact what the school is doing is perfectly legal under the spent court’s ruling. Evaluating an applicant’s lived experience—including challenges related to race, poverty, or geography—is fully legal under Supreme Court precedent, provided it assesses individual character rather than a demographic box.
Trump’s DOJ which is short on credibility and trustworthiness with courts these days is too incompetent to make its case. They are only calling it racism because of GPA scores? They still have to prove intent and so far all they have are GPA scores. That’s not evidence of intentional racism.
Lots of words, but truth is only the actual test scores are the difference between top students. Just like in sports, winners have to actually win, participation trophies don’t count. Getting rid of test scores is suicide for the profession.
Nope. Using only test scores to judge character, competence, and the ability to go through the rigorous process of becoming a doctor is not enough. Nobody is getting rid of test scores. Schools like Yale judge the overall character of the student along with the scores. Having the best scores is not proof of also having the best character and attributes that are desirable of doctors.
Medicine is not a sport. Doctors don’t go into practice to win scores. They go into practice to heal and provide better quality of life for those who get sick or injured. It takes more than just “winning” or having the top score.
This is the only time in memory where I think X/George is correct. “Even a stopped clock. . . . ” etc.
What about the kid with a GPA of 3.9 who works in his father’s law firm vs the kid with the 3.0 who never worked a day in his life buy writes an essay saying he has been discriminated against and therefore gets accepted over the 3.9 kid? My fake anecdote is just as possible as your fake anecdote. That is why great universities, or formerly great universities, need to have remedial classes for their “new” students.
Wha?
Hullbobby, fake anecdote? Nope. It’s based on reality.
The idea that top medical schools accept unqualified students just because of an essay is not true. Data from the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) shows that the average GPA for accepted students is very high, between 3.7 and 3.9. Schools do not lower their standards to let in a student with a 3.0 just because of a sad story. When a student with a 3.9 gets rejected, they did not lose their spot to someone unqualified. They lost it to another 3.9 student who also had great research, doctor-shadowing hours, and leadership skills.
Also, admissions teams look closely at kids who work for their parents. They prefer applicants who got a normal job on their own, because it proves real hard work instead of family favoritism.There is also no such thing as “remedial classes” in medical school. The classes are incredibly fast and hard for everyone. If a student cannot handle the heavy science load, they fail out in the first year. Every single medical student must pass the exact same national board exams (USMLE) to become a doctor. If a school graduated bad students, it would lose its license.
Under the law, essays about facing hard times are only helpful if they show how the student grew stronger. Medical schools are looking for students who have both top-tier grades and the caring personality needed to help sick patients. Their character. Not race. Only the Trump DOJ is making it about race. They don’t know what they are doing and it’s more likely they are just trying to make themselves look good for Trump. Not follow the law.
Forget the grades and look at the MCAT results. That proves there is reverse discrimination. A well sourced example is Allan Bakst who was denied admission and Patrick Chavis. GSX you are an ignoramous who is too dumb to recognize the truth.
LOL
My daugher was tutor at an Ivy League. YOU know you are lying, we know you are lying!
A tutor? That’s your proof? ROFL!! Sure, if you say so. She could be tutor at an elite school of cosmetology for all I know.
Credibility and trustworthiness and that’s your basis for an argument about admissions? You’ve got the mind of a juvenile.
None of your nonsense has any logical basis just the ranting of someone provoking a fight. Clearly you’re not a lawyer but a bigmouth.
Clearly you are not understanding what you’re reading. It shows. I have never claimed to be a lawyer. What makes you think that?
What IS clear is you don’t have an argument.
Your reply to “Anonymous” is meaningless. Why? The vast majority of posts by this Anonymous member reflects anger and frustration with life, not just against those on this blog. My guess is he’s giving himself high-fives on his replies, but the vast majority of members on Turley’s blog know exactly what he is doing. That’s why he will never get the kudos he apparently thinks he deserves.
As the old saying goes about this “Anonymous” person. . .”It is better to be thought of as a foll than to open the mouth and remove all doubt.”
You are not considering the widespread occurrence of grade inflation that occurs in the same institutions that have lowered their standards for certain favored groups. Once you lower the standards for admission you must lower the academic standards to hide the results of admitting less capable students. After they graduate they will find the real world is not so forgiving.
The idea that medical schools inflate grades to hide underqualified students is incorrect. While individual colleges can change class grades, they have absolutely no control over national medical exams. To graduate and become a doctor, every single student must pass the exact same United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) sequence. These massive tests are created and scored by an independent national board, completely outside of the university. If a medical school lowered its internal standards and let students slide by, those students would fail the national exams. If that happens, the school loses its official accreditation and is forced to close down.
Furthermore, the second half of medical school takes place inside real hospitals, where performance cannot be faked. Students are graded by working doctors on how they treat real patients and handle medical emergencies. Medical schools do not protect failing students to save face. If a student cannot handle the heavy science load or pass hospital safety checks, they are dismissed from the school. Finally, after graduation, new doctors must complete years of grueling 80-hour work weeks in hospital residency programs. The real world of medicine has strict, non-negotiable safety filters that ensure only capable doctors are allowed to treat patients.
Your claim that they are lowering standards is wrong and unsupported.
You cite absolutely no evidence to support your claim that the colleges were using other, objectively defensible and valuable, criteria to determine admissions, rather than simple race favoratism. Your posts here lead me to suspect that you are either an actual or aspiring “influencer” working for “Chorus”. If the former is the case, I’d be much happier, because paying an idiot like you would be an obvious waste of their money.
Nonprofit Crackdown: Feds target the liberal dark money infrastructure
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/nonprofit-crackdown-feds-target-liberal-dark-money-infrastructure
“Last year, WIRED magazine first reported on the existence of the secretive Chorus program. The group allegedly pays online influencers up to $8,000 a month to disseminate talking points favorable to the Democratic Party. The influencers are expected to be tight-lipped about their arrangements with Chorus. According to several contracts reviewed by WIRED, the creators are prohibited from publicly acknowledging the program, disclosing the identities of any funders or admitting that they are being paid.”
Accusing me of being a paid influencer is just an easy way to ignore the facts.
The real evidence comes straight from the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC). Their data proves that the average GPA for accepted students is a very high 3.8. Schools are not handing out seats to underqualified candidates.When a 3.9 GPA student gets rejected, it is because they lost their spot to another 3.9 student who also has hundreds of hours of hospital experience, published research, and leadership. Medical schools look at these extra factors because being a good doctor requires human clinical skills, not just a high test score.
Throwing around “dark money” conspiracy theories does not change the data. The admissions metrics are public, and every student still has to pass the exact same national board exams (USMLE) to practice.
I Don Wannutono,
All the more reason not to read the slow and dumb one’s comments. Who wants to read what a AI bot says?
Yeah who wants to ignore the facts. Slow and dumb sure can’t be refuted. Wow.
Your facts are wrong. You talk from the wrong orifice.
Students will wildly exaggerate in their essay to manufacture a narrative of being victims of racial discrimination or poverty….if that’s going to help getting accepted. Roberts should never had allowed essay signalling. It teaches dishonesty and dishonor to compete and get ahead.
Wildly exaggerate? You think Ivy League schools are too stupid to see through that kind of deception? Wow. They also check by looking at letters of recommendation, character at the interviews and other factors. Not just race and high scores.
“Turley is wrong and so is the DOJ. I can show you why.”
Really?
You read the DOJ’s “Findings” and the original docs from Yale? If so, you didn’t refute a single fact or argument in those “Findings.”
As is your typical deception, your maniacal focus on a holistic approach is a red herring. The issue, and the only issue, is Yale’s use of race in making admissions decisions. That use of race, to any degree, is called “racism.”
Sam, it’s painfully obvious that you don’t know what a “red herring” is. You have zero proof they are using race as a criteria. None.
I actually did refute the DOJ’s findings. The fact that they only used GPA as their sole evidence that race is being used not only hilariously lacking. It’s a sign of incompetence on their part. I pointed out Yale is doing exactly what Justice Roberts said is perfectly allowable. It’s the incompetents at the Trump DOJ who can’t seem to grasp the idea that writing an essay is one part of a bigger process. It’s not just about high scoring. You’re saying it must be racism because Trump’s incompetent DOJ says so. LOL!!
When “the good guys” are racist, it’s not racism, it’s equity.
Define good guys?
Is that a legal statute?
Dad, please stop the ranting, come up out of the basement, take a shower and look for a job.
We need to see more of your posts, on the posting by Anonymous. He (or she, it, etc.) is ranting against anyone or anything he (presumed) wants to chastise.
Without a hint of irony, White and Asian students could use the admissions process as an example of discrimination they faced when writing those essays.
I feel badly for black and Hispanic students because the stigma of being undeserving and unqualified will never leave them when race-based criteria are used.
You nailed it! It is the greatest disservice that the Democrat/Progressive Party has done to minorities since slavery.
250 years democrats have been trying to blacks on failed plantations!
The WORSE a Democrats makes a school, the MORE money they get!
Knowledge of med school discrimination against White/Asian applicants has been present for 4 decades. But it runs deeper than simply unfair admissions. There have been organized efforts to ignore the med school performance of those very same students in order for them to graduate. And then, many of them are still poor practitioners once they get into the real world.
So, you’re correct. For those blacks who have been superb, there has existed an unfair, but understandable stigma among colleagues.
Medical schools do not license doctors. Every student, regardless of background, must pass the identical United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) sequence to practice medicine.
Step 1 and Step 2 exams are administered by external national boards. It is logistically impossible for individual medical schools to “ignore performance” or artificially boost board scores for specific student demographics.
Peer-reviewed data published in JAMA Network Open demonstrates that counties with higher representations of Black primary care physicians experience significantly better life expectancy and lower all-cause mortality rates among Black patients.
The stigma mentioned is driven by implicit bias and flawed statistical assumptions, not objective clinical data. Presuming a colleague is less capable based on their race is the definition of prejudice, not professional judgment.
It’s the racists who make the assumptions you make. That’s the DOJ’s position.
1. Just ‘passing’ the USMLE is not a high bar by any means, Dad. And you often brag to the kids that you took the most pass/fail classes of anyone in the family. And look where we are at with that level of performance.
2. Reams of old test questions from the USMLE flood medical schools annually, Dad. Add that to the fact that the USMLE test is ‘pass/fail’ then one can easily see why you always tell the kids ‘Why work hard when mediocrity is rewarded?’
3. The JAMA is considered a biased fool’s publication by most physicians and typically thought to be worth less than the paper it is written upon, Dad. Adding “Peer-reviewed” to that circumstance is like gilding a garbage dumpster. Did you learn nothing other than power grabbing from the COVID debacle, Dad?
4. No one is ‘Presuming a colleague is less capable based on their race, sex, sexual identification, sexual preference, etc’, Dad. But the ‘data’ shows that selection process for those ‘colleagues’ is biased. So why would the very criteria used to judge performance of those colleagues not be biased as well so as to support the original bigotry exposed in the selection process? Are you really thinking that medical schools (of all places 😜) select a low performer and turn that low performer into a high performer/Einstein? That almost never happens under routine circumstance in ANY profession, Dad.
5. Playing the “racist” card won’t work in these circumstances, Dad. Doing so is racist. Please come up from the basement, take a shower and look for a job.
And the stigma will be deserved – on the whole – because large number of such admitted will be unqualified….as demonstrated by their lower passage rates on medical board exams in and after medical school.
Perhaps the solution to this sort of discrimination is to hold the medical schools liable when these unqualified admits slides into practice and delivers substandard care.
Agreed. By lowering the standards for admission for some they taint the perception of those that are high achieving and need no preferential treatment. Add in the grade inflation that occurs and the indoctrination to radicalism by the faculty and you’ve ruined the reputation of your university. Why would any employer recruit from your pool of substandard graduates?
Mark Hastings,
Well said.
As I have stated in the past here on the good professor’s blog, I am not white. Yes, I find the idea given preferred treatment based on my skin color and not my performance offensive and demeaning.
I find it hard to believe that Roberts did not know exactly what he was doing. If it was obvious to the rest of us, why not such an intelligent person as him.
Your comment speaks for itself!
Well exactly what could the Court do? Should they have written a decision that states colleges can’t have essays? The DEI scourge is too amorphous and difficult to root out easily so let us thank people like Harmeet Dillon for fighting the good fight.
Obvious? Maybe if you had an itty bit of knowledge of the legal process you would understand Roberts. But you don’t. Law is not based on your feelings or right or wrong. Its black and white. Pun intended.
“I find it hard to believe that Roberts did not know exactly what he was doing.”
There is ample reason to conclude that Roberts is a narcissist who is much more concerned with his popularity among (at least some of) the elites on the DC party circuit than he is with upholding the limitations on Federal power plainly and obviously expressed in the Constitution.