Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz has failed in his extraordinary effort to protect a Laotian rapist from deportation. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has confirmed that he revoked Tue Lue Vang’s legal status and removed him from the United States. After repeatedly raping a 10-year-old girl between 2002 and 2004, Vang insisted it was “a cultural thing.” Well, this is a “constitutional thing” that the Secretary of State, not the Governor of Minnesota, determines who may remain in the United States after such a serious offense.
Vang was convicted in 2006 of first-degree criminal sexual conduct. An immigration judge issued Vang a final order of removal on October 31, 2006 after his conviction.
Minnesota’s Board of Pardons, composed of Walz, state Attorney General Keith Ellison, and state Chief Justice Natalie Hudson, granted his clemency. (They noted that the victim wrote a letter on his behalf.) They also pardoned another Laotian criminal illegal alien — a convicted armed robber — before he could be deported.
At the time, Walz wrongly referred to Vang as a “citizen”:
“I can find no reason how Minnesota will be safer or better if Mr. Vang is deported to a country he has not been to since he was a child.I do not see how it would serve his family, nor the economic interest where we have a taxpaying citizen who is creating job growth and living a life free from any criminal activity.
Rubio told Fox News:
“Just weeks ago, a foreign child rapist was freed to once again endanger America’s children after receiving a pardon from Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. Tue Lue Vang admitted to committing heinous crimes against a 10-year-old girl in Minnesota. He attempted to pay his victim for her silence and dismissed his acts of child abuse as a ‘minor thing.’
Just days before he was scheduled to be deported, the Minnesota Governor pardoned him, setting him free to endanger American families once again.”
He added, “Americans should never have to live in fear that foreign sex predators — shielded from deportation by their own elected officials — could endanger them or their children.”
Vang’s use of Laotian culture was notable for some of us who have spoken or written about “the cultural defense.”
I have long drawn the line in the use of the cultural defense on such violent acts. However, troubling outliers remain in the cases. In January 1985, Japanese immigrant Fumiko Kimura tried to commit oyako-shinju (or parent-child suicide) after learning of her husband’s infidelity. She walked her infant daughter and 4-year-old son in the frigid ocean off Santa Monica. The children drowned, but she was rescued. While she had lived in the United States for some 14 years, she claimed the cultural defense (even though oyako-shinju is illegal in Japan). She was successful. Kimura received just one year in jail and five years’ probation. She then reunited with her husband.
There have been several cases involving “marriage by capture.” We have had some cases related to the custom of zij poj niam, particularly in relation to the Hmong culture, where a man abducts a woman he intends to marry and takes her to his family home. The woman is expected to resist as a sign of her virtue.
In a prior case, Kong Moua, a Hmong tribesman, drove to the Fresno City College campus and kidnapped a young woman from her job in the student finance office. She took her to his cousin’s house, but the Hmong woman did not believe in the cultural practice and called police.
Charged with rape and kidnapping, the defense successfully claimed the cultural defense. It secured a lesser charge of false imprisonment, and then the judge sentenced Kong Moua to just 120 days in jail and fined him $1,000, with only $900 of that going to the victim as reparations.
It is unclear whether Vang was making such a claim, but most judges would reject it. The effort by Walz to keep him in the United States was equally dubious as a constitutional matter.
Jonathan Turley is a law professor and the New York Times best-selling author of “Rage and the Republic: The Unfinished Story of the American Revolution.”
I wan to know how he was able to strike a ple deal and not do any prison time at for raping a 10 year old repeatedly???
The people of Minnesota must be furious at the present administation for deporting one of their upstanding citizen-rapests. Not to worry, I’m sure there are plently more of them in Minnesota that they can protect.
A ten year old child is very vulnerable. It’s not just what this man did physically to this ten year old girl but it’s also the psychological damage that she must live with for the rest of her life. Even men in prison find sexual predators abhorrent.
We should not be surprised because people like Walz believed that the sexual organs of underage boys and girls can be removed. There have been many cultural practices that have been rejected by modern civilized societies. Walz remains an Ape man.
*. American males do southeast Asian tourism and come back to the US with impunity. Let me know when the US polices that disgusting abuse.
There is an old saying, “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” Just because some Americans commit abhorrent acts on foreign soil does not mean that the US must ignore abhorrent acts committed on US soil.
Each country must enforce its own laws, not the laws of another nation unless required by treaty.
Yes, the are called CHO MOS ( long O )and cant be placed in a USP group or they will be killed
The scariest thing Professor Turley said is that “most” judges would reject a “cultural defense”. Most? Not all? That is really scary!
Plus the dem-o-rat supports this craziness.
Cultural mismatch is a thing. Alla alla in free
Houston Defying DHS On Immigrant Shooting
Hours after three witnesses questioned the official account of how an immigration agent killed a man in Houston this week, city officials said they would begin their own investigation of the federal government’s actions.
Mayor John Whitmire of Houston said he, the city’s police department and the district attorney’s office would work aggressively to obtain all evidence and uncover the truth, reversing his earlier position that the city had no jurisdiction over the case.
“We are not settling to wait for an F.B.I. report,” Mr. Whitmire said during a news briefing on Friday afternoon. “We want answers.”
The episode began about 6:50 a.m. on Tuesday as Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, a 52-year-old Mexican immigrant, was driving in East Houston on his way to work at a construction site in a van with three other workers. Agents with Immigration and Customs Enforcement began tailing him.
Both the district attorney and the mayor said that federal law enforcement agencies were not cooperating with local officials and were tightly controlling evidence. Still, Mayor Whitmire said the city “would not rest” until it had completed its inquiry.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/10/us/houston-ice-shooting-witnesses.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
………………………………………
The DHS expected to handle this latest shooting exactly as they handled the Minneapolis shootings: by bottling up all the evidence and refusing to cooperate with local authorities.
The DHS even issued what was essentially the same press release from Renee Good shooting; claiming suspect ‘used vehicle as a weapon’. In this case, however, a video exists of the victim, bleeding to death while handcuffed.
The local authorities do not cooperate with ICE and it’s federal jurisdiction anyway. The local lefty police chiefs just want a propaganda opportunities.
Estovir, since when do police chiefs ignore homicides?
When they are outside of their jurisdiction – State and local govenrment do not have jurisdiction over employees of the federal government while they are performing their job.
This is an FBI/DOJ matter. PERIOD.
Did you see Mineapolis efforts go anywhere ? Asidfe fromt eh fact there was not crime, there was also no consequential local enforcement.
DHS/ICE/DOJ/FBI need not coopoerate with local officials. HOWEVER local officials MUST cooperate with DOJ/FBI on federal issues.
Not a homicide…
Lethal force action by federal law enforcement.
Stay on topic
From Last Week:
DOJ Withholding Epstein Documents
The Department of Justice (DOJ) declined Thursday to release additional unredacted records from its investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, telling a federal judge that it has already adequately complied with the law.
The DOJ’s response came in the final hours of a court-ordered deadline to remove redactions in at least a dozen documents or “show cause” why it could not.
Those documents included “at least eight email exchanges with Mr. Epstein regarding a ‘torture video’ and sexual activity with young women, including minors” and interviews with a woman who claims she was abused by President Trump as a minor.
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5952687-justice-department-epstein-files-phang-suit/
………………………………………….
If Bill and Hillary Clinton had to appear before James Comer’s committee, Donald and Melania Trump should certainly be summoned. Trump needs to answer questions, under oath, regarding his years-long friendship with Epstein.
Epstein holdbacks are very unlikely to be about protecting Trump. There are probably a few wealthy folks and a small, self-important nation that want Epstein to be forgotten.
My question is: what op was put into play to replace Epstein, the decomissioned asset?
Joe Biden would not have held back anything that damaged Trump for four whole years.
Wholeheartedly agree!
Hear, hear!
No would myriads of carreer Democrat lawyers at DOJ under Biden (and Trump 45) and many still there now.
If there was anything of substance it would have leaked years ago.
The only thing Joe Biden held back was taxes owed on his and his son’s illicit money laundering schemes.
Wanna buy a Hinter poo painting? Cheap but it stinks!
Joe Biden showered with his young underage daughter Ashley Biden and she thinks he molested her but she was to young to remember. As told by Joe Biden’s own daughter Ashley. Reaffirmed that when asked.
“Was I molested?” She had written in the diary. She also stated that she had been hyper-sexualized” as a child and had taken “probably not appropriate” showers with her father, Joe Biden. – Snopes
The alleged minor abused by Trump has been flogged to death. She tried to sue 3 separate times and the case was tossed in three separate parts of the country.
Like E Jean Carroll she was unable to make a claim that was falsifiable – i.e. one that atleast theoretically could be proven true or false.
SCOTUS should have heard the Trump/Carrol case and it should have ruled that a plantiff can not bring a case when they can not provide any claim that can actually be tested in court.
No one shoudl be able to go to court and say “at some unspecified time at some vague place the defendant might have done something I did not like in hindsight.
We saw this with the Kavanaugh case.
This supposed minor’s allegations were tossed by courts – just as COrrolls should have been multiple times for failure to state a case.
No one should be forced into court to defend against allegations so lacking in detail that it is not possible to provide a defense.
E. Jean Carroll could file a criminal complaint, there is no statute of limitations on rape in NY. She never will because that would mean a real investigation which would expose her lies and show she has zero evidence. Trump traveled extensively during her multiyear time period, almost never alone and with business records and receipts. If she guessed wrong it which is more than likely it would expose her lies
It is a sad state when someone can make an unsupported accusation and when you defend your innocence you can be sued for defamation and have to pay millions. That affects everyone ever falsely accused.
Trump’s aquaintance with Epstain was extrremely shallow in comparison to Clinton’s and ended in about 2004 with Trump throwing Epstain out of MAL.
Subsequently Trump reported Epstain to FL Police, and as president the Trump DOJ/FBI went after and arrested Epstain and Ghislane.
Contra your claim Epstain and Trump hated each other for decades.
Regardless to beleive there is something in these files that is actually damning to Trump you have to beleive Trump was able to bury it during his first term,
That Ghislane did not know it – or she would have made a deal with the Biden DOJ. That the lawyers in the DOJ desparate to get Trump during Bidens tenure completely missed something horribly damning – and that myriads of democrats still in DOJ refused to leak it.
Regardless, Epstains victims are entirely free to go after those who abused them.
You claim there is some child that Claims to have been abused by Trump. Where are they ? Did they die ? As I said – this case went to court before and died,
it can not be brought again. It never had any real substance.
But you are free to beleive that Covid came from bats in a wet market or that Trump colluded with Putin or that the Hunter Biden laptop is russian disinformation
or any of the massive amount of tinfoil hat stupidity on the left.
Alex Jones and Qanon have a better track record than YOU or the MSM – and Jones is nuts.
Democrats love rapist, they even put one up for Senator in Maine. No getting around it Democrats hate women.
The majority of liberals are women.
The fact that those women support such a monstrosity is even more evidence that Liberalism is a mental defect.
He repeatedly raped a small child for a period of years. And this dipstick below thinks that’s okay. This is what the Left has been reduced to.
It’s what we are being reduced to.
Victim Forgives Vang
Tou Lue Vang, an immigrant from Laos, faced deportation for a 2006 conviction of first-degree criminal sexual conduct after raping a young girl between 2002 and 2004. Because Laos initially refused to accept deportees, Vang spent nearly two decades living in Minnesota.
In December 2025, federal authorities detained him during a massive immigration crackdown, and a federal judge later ordered his release from US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) custody in February 2026.
In June, Vang was pardoned by the Minnesota board of pardons after he expressed remorse for his actions and a letter from his victim said she forgave him, the Minnesota Star Tribune reported.
In a letter obtained by the Star Tribune, the victim explained that she had “made my peace” and forgiven Vang. “He is not the same person now. I have seen how he has changed,” the letter reads.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/10/deport-pardoned-minnesota-man-laos
……………………………………..
Vang’s entire family (and children) live in Minneapolis. Vang, himself, hasn’t been to Laos since he was a small child.
“Vang’s entire family (and children) live in Minneapolis.”
I hate to see a loving wife and children separated from their sex-predator husband and father. So let me help them out:
There are cheap one-way flights from MSP to Laos for $600. I’ll even contribute to a GoFundMe.
Or they can hit up one of Walz’s Somali pirates.
Sam (Estovir), I don’t recall you showing much interest in the Epstein case. Do you think Trump should appear before Comer’s committee?
You mean based on “evidence” that Joe Biden just forgot to publicize during the four years of his presidency? You live in a fantasy world of your own creation. Then you tell lies based on your own fantasies.
Ah! When the annony is losing the narrative, annony always trots out the “Estovir” claim.
The real Estovir eviscerated the annony in the past and the annony took it personally. As the annony should. Estovir did a stand up job of doing exactly that! It was brilliant to see!
As we know, Trump and Epstein did in fact mix in the same social circles in the 80s and 90s. When Trump found out what Epstein was, he threw Epstein out of Mar-A-Largo.
Since then, Epstein was a Never Trumper.
For years.
Upstate (Estovir), If Trump had nothing more to do with Epstein, then he can tell that, under oath, to Comer’s committee.
That is not how rights work in the US.
When you have reasonable suspicion – which is a legal standard, not a feeling in your gut – you can start an investigation. Buty you can not subpeona records or witnesses or issue warrants until you have probable cause.
You do not even have reasonable suspicion that Trump had anything to do with Epstains misconduct.
I dont know who should be more insulted: Sam or Estovir? that’s like confusing Satan with …..no wait a minute. that’s not right.
then there is this:
Breadman
@BTCBreadMan
The next time you’re feeling down, remember it’s all about perspective. I got a friend who reads 2-3 books a week, works out twice a day, has no financial worries, & has people who want to have sex with him all the time & yet he constantly complains about how much he hates prison
https://x.com/BTCBreadMan/status/2075390771805450715
OTOH, if you’re Peter Shill, he’d be lucky to get banged by the prison parking pole
Estovir, we’ve been tracking you for 7 years and have documented ALL your puppets.
Not even a parking pole?
😂😂😂
You have a mouse in your pocket ? Or are you Borg or the Pope or Royalty ?
Get a grip you fool.
No-one buys the BS you you push day after day.
Trump has been repeatedly exonerate, was proven to have worked with the FBI to get Epstein and any woman he had interaction with said he was a perfect gentleman. Are you ignorant or just f’ing stupid?
“Sam (Estovir)”
Check with your therapist about “Fregoli Delusion:”
It’s a “delusional misidentification syndrome where a person firmly believes that different people they encounter are actually a single, familiar person constantly changing their appearance.”
It causes severe paranoia that your persecutor (Estovir/lin/Olly/Sam . . .) is following you. It can be a symptom of schizophrenia.
Estovir, we never said Olly was you. Olly was here before you.
When you have credible evidence that there would be some value to doing so – then yes.
But not to testify about already falsified nonsense.
Help them out. Them and about 90 million other current and previous illegal aliens.
To wit,
Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795, 1798, 1802
United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” March 26, 1790
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof….
If “he hasn’t been to Laos since he was a small child” then how did he learn that it was culturally acceptable for an adult to rape a prepubertal female child, repeatedly?
I believe the victim is his wife’s younger sister. A child rapist is a child rapist in every culture. His family can go with him if they wish.
So What ?
My wife is a public defender, we live in Amish country. There are far to many Amish Pedo’s
In ALL those cases – UNIVERSALLY – the church, the women, the family the victims comes forward and publicly forgives the perp.
The cases STILL get prosecuted.
It is overall a very good thing for victims to reach the point at which they can forgive those who harmed them.
It is good for the victims, it is good for the criminals. But it does not make the criminal innocent, nor stop the prosecution or punishment.
The rule of law and the social contract REQUIRE the prosecution and punishment of crimes. This is not just about what victims want.
Justice and forgiveness are independent. Forgiving someone does not end the requirement of justice.
Criminal prosecutiosn and punishment are for the benefit of ALL – not merely the victim.
Walz should join Vang in deportation. To think this corrupt, venal, pos was nearly VP is shocking.
I can’t help but think that Kamala Harris chose the moron Walz as her VP running mate because she learned that he likely had access to some of the billions In Minnesota Somali fraud money. Why else would the Harris campaign spend $1.5 billion in a little more than 100 days?
Naaaaaaaa Walz loves China way to much.
They forced us to fight Vietnam and Laos’ war for them.
Then they forced us to give them our country.
They’re a lot like that stinkin’ Lincoln.
“We the People of the United States…secure the Blessings of Liberty TO OURSELVES and OUR POSTERITY.
– Preamble to the Constitution of the American Founders
Who’s ‘they’..????
You mean JFK & LBJ.
It is incumbent on anyone who becomes a resident of a formerly foreign country for any length of time to comply with, if not necessarily permanently adopt, the accepted behavioral constraints of that country. The “cultural thing” excuse is nothing but that: it is pure BS, and should never become a mitigating factor of any kind in arrest and/or prosecution for criminal conduct. This should apply to US citizens going abroad, as well as foreigners coming to our shores. Don’t like that idea? Then stay right where you are.
I Don W: -And for good reason.
This constant splintering of the body politic is of festering concern.
We now have congressional hearings on a new House bill to limit entry into the U.S. of those practicing Sharia Law (H.R. 5722).
In a similar manner, we have progressive California groups pushing to add ‘Black English’ to schools’ multilingual education programs. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/leftist-california-group-pushes-add-black-english-schools-multilingual-education-program
And the recent challenges to The Indian Child Welfare Act (e.g. Haaland v. Brackeen) (whether non-Native Americans can adopt Native American children)…..
This young 250-year-old idea still has a few hiccoughs to get where it needs to be.
“. . . House bill to limit entry into the U.S. of those practicing Sharia Law (H.R. 5722).”
Hope it passes, and is enforced.
It’s high time America start exercising its “cultural thing” — like Western jurisprudence.
Sam,
Well said and agreed.
When I was in Afghanistan, I saw what Sharia law looks like.
They treat girls and women like livestock.
Heck, I treat my livestock better.
OT
How Platner was originally selected as a candidate:
https://youtu.be/SV-QHJlZXeU?is=bXdDVoZ16M0AemPE
What’s going to happen on Monday:
https://youtu.be/g07Xxr20L9s?is=GtqxzZeYozbI8NtQ
Platner may still run, on the ballot as independent. (Or Communist?) Then he’d split the Dem vote. Pass the popcorn.
Hello Susan Collin’s!
Don’t forget the butter.
America has been “fundamentally transformed” into a latrine overflowing with waste in need of flushing.
“a latrine overflowing with waste in need of flushing.”
Quite a few of those clumps of waste can be found floating around the comments section of this blog on a daily basis.
Vang pleaded guilty in 2006 and never served time as part of his plea agreement. The prosecutors thus appear not to have seen him as very dangerous. So far as I can tell, he has had no subsequent legal problems and has a wife (related to his victim) and several children. Deporting him on the basis that he is a continuing threat to the community seems bizarre, notwithstanding the twenty year old order of final removal.
Is it really that bizarre to deport a convicted child rapist who is not legally in this country?
Or are you claiming Rubio has no legal basis for the deportation?
agree
Perhaps Vang will fight deportation by claiming citizenship under domiciled for 20+ years. The court has established legal or illegally domiciled has it not?
Expunge Vang’s criminal record.
Vang has naturalized 😂. SCOTUS will agree. Infact they have.
I find no credible evidence that Vang was naturalized – that can not happen with an outstanding deportation order.
Regardless he is now in Laos. He got his Due Process and he is gone.
Trump is not making the mistake of getting another of these criminals returned again.
The order is 20 years old? Why now? Isn’t there a time limit on this stuff?
No.
If you entered the US illegally – time does not change that and you can be deported.
Court orders rarely expire.
Was there a time limit to E. Jean Carroll’s FAKE sexual assault claim?? Why, yes. Yes there was, but the Progressives New York law created a special “lookback” window that allowed her to sue decades later
The Councilman that shepherd the effort was then summarily sued himself. Classic Democrat behavior!
The recidivism rate for Pedophiles is unbelievably high.
Nealy all pedo’s are a continuing threat.
Regardless, even if he is ZERO threat – he needs gone. If you come here – legally or otherwise and break our laws – your gone.
The same is true of all countries in the world.
That’s why pedophiles should get the death penalty. The recidivism rate after the death penalty is zero.
Tell it to Scotus. They outlawed the death penalty at the state level for all non-homicide offenses, including child rape.
OMFK – I do not believe that is the case. There are a number of cases on the death penalty and life without parole over the past 2 decades – that have made those harder.
But MOST if not all of those are for juveniles.
But the FACT is that punishment is harsher today than a century or more ago.
Emmitt Dalton of the Dalton Gang survived 23 gunshot wounds in his last bank robery, Dalton was convicted of murder, served 14 years and was released, and died 30 years later
Daniel,
I am inclined to also question the timeline.
However, this is MN and as we have seen with the massive fraud in MN, perhaps it is similar.
I would rather see this deportation carried out than even one per-chance sexual act against a child by the man.
Same goes for I would of rather seen the border secure during the Biden admin and women like Laken Riley would still be alive, happy and living their lives.
Yep, it’s over folks.
I have to say that it is most gratifying to note that anyone who bought shares in Elon Musk’s Spacex at its IPO last week has lost money.
The only real question is how much money they will continue to lose if they are stupid enough to hold this worthless stock that is one of the greatest scams perpetrated on the American people, along with the scams perpetrated by the Trump family.
Is that your long-term assessment or just more of the same TDS?
AI Overview
Venture Capitalists (VCs) invest in unprofitable corporations. In fact, the vast majority of startups and early-stage companies backed by venture capital are not profitable when they receive their initial funding.
_______________________________
Capable and competent venture capitalists make large amounts of money in the long run. Unlike most other financial industries, venture capital features a unique economic phenomenon called “performance persistence,” which ensures that early skill and competence translate into predictable, long-term wealth.
Of course Spacex is absolutely NOT a start up. It has been in existence for 24 years, and as far as we can tell has NEVER made a profit.
This IPO last month was simply a cunning way for Musk to unload the massive debt he is carrying from his purchase of Twitter on to the poor unsuspecting schmucks who bought his stock. It also provided an exit for the private equity investors who helped him buy Twitter, and were losing money. Just before the IPO, Musk engineered a merger between Spacex and X (formerly known as Twitter).
The publicly available stock float is less than 5% total outstanding stock, and through legal chicanery Musk has managed to maintain control of 80% of the voting power of the stock, while only owning 40% of the stock.
As I said, one of the biggest financial scams in history.
Musk is clearly trying to outdo the scams of the Trump family.
I seem to recall you making previous predictions and disparaging the stock market during Trump’s first admin.
How well did that go for you?
I have NEVER disparaged the stock market. I make a good living day trading. I am making out like a bandit.
However anyone with a working knowledge of the markets can immediately recognize scams and give them a wide berth, such as SpaceX, and Trump’s media company behind Truth Social that is down 95%, and his crypto scam that is down 98% and cheated “investors”out of $3.8 billion, although “investors” is a very loose term for the idiots that bought his stock.
Yes. That is right. You make something like over a 1000% in the market.
Something no one believes.
*100%. Hit the ‘0’ button one too many times.
I do not believe he is evn a day trader – there is too much that ever people with IRAs know that he clearly does not.
Sure he’s a day trader, he trades here every day.
“I make a good living day trading. I am making out like a bandit.”
I highly doubt that – regardless, Day Trading and long term investing are RADICALLY different.
With respect to your claimed scams – just like Musk – Trump was not allowed to sell much of his stock in his new ventures for a signficant time after the IPO – and if you actually knew anything about the market you would KNOW that.
IPO’s provide funding for the company – the major private investors are very very restricted in the rate they can “cash out” – no one gets scammed in IPOs.
The restrictions on major investors cashing out are just a FEW of the restrictions that preclude “scams”
There are “scams” in the stock market -0 mostly pushed by “day traders” – like yourself – who take EXISTING Stocks and “pump and dump” them – buy and persuade others to buy and then quickly dump at an artificial peak. That can happen to trash stocks – but it even can happen to blue chips.
John Say,
Well said.
More than a few Wall Street types have noted day traders tend to fair less better than those who run more traditional 401ks with investing in ETFs, low over head non-managed costs, adjusting their investment strategies either quarterly as I do or yearly.
It has served me well.
I am not trying to disparage day traders as a whole – like every occupation there are good and bad people in it.
There are also competent and incompetent people.
There are many people who make a very good living day trading – there are also professional poker players who do extremely well.
And many who do not.
John Say
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You simply make stuff up.
The private investors, insiders, and company executives who hold stock in the company BEFORE an IPO are restricted and cannot sell at the IPO.
However the stock created by the IPO is allocated by the underwriters at the IPO price to major investors such as mutual funds, hedge funds, pension funds and wealthy clients who have private banking relationships with major banks. They can and do unload everything on Day 1 into the IPO at significant profits. That is where the stock that trades on opening day comes from. The big guys unload their allocations on the poor unsuspecting retail investors.
X
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You simply make stuff up from your AI tutorials.
SPCX has a staggered lockup period EFFECTIVE ON IPO DAY so your “unloading on Day 1” scenario tells us that you know nuthin’ ’bout nuthin’
The staggered lockup period applies ONLY to those shares that existed BEFORE the IPO.
Those shares are held by Musk, the other initial investors and venture capitalists who put up money privately to get him started, company insiders and executives and employees who received stock options.
Those shares are completely separate from the IPO shares. The IPO shares are created by the company and then sold to the underwriters at a fixed price. In this case the lead underwriters were Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. They buy the stock directly from the company and then sell it to their clients who are mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds, insurance companies and wealthy individuals with whom they have private business arrangements. This is the stock that is sold on IPO day. There are no restrictions, and the owners of the new stock are free to sell on Day 1.
Where do you think the stock sold on Day1 actually comes from?
The institutional investors who actually get the IPO stock almost invariably flip it for big profits at the IPO. They effectively dump it on retail investors who are simply gambling that it will go up. There were 639 million shares allocated in the IPO. The trading volume on Day 1 was 510 million, so almost all the shares were dumped. In the case of SpaceX the stock has steadily declined since the IPO. This indicates that the experts know perfectly well that this is a scam.
Clown X
Don’t try to educate me on things you are just learning.
Did you just not say, “It also provided an exit for the private equity investors who helped him buy Twitter.” Stay off the INternet until you actually graduate from high school.
Finally you are somewhere close to accurate and you are completely at odds with your initial claim.
Do you have evidence that the SpaceX IPO was a “fixed commitment” IPO ?
Regardless if it was as you have finally APPROXIMATELY stated correctly – the Underwriters buy the IPO stock from the company.
In a fixed commitment underwrite the COMPANY gets a known amount of money immediately before the IPO – guaranteed.
The underwriter than gambles they can sell what they bought for more than they paid for it.
I doubt SpaceX was a fixed commitment IPO. But if it was and if the underwriters paid dramatically less than the opening price – they did well. Otherwise they may have taken a bath.
Yes regular investors are gambling that the stock will go up.
And the underwriters in a fixed committment IPO are gambling that investors will buy at the initial offering price or they lose their shirts.
“This indicates that the experts know perfectly well that this is a scam.”
ROFL
In a fixed committment IPO the underwriter sets the initial listing price.
That is NOT the price they are paid – that is the ASKING price. The price paid is the price Investors actually buy at.
It is highly unlikely all the underwriters stock is sold immediately – if the price goes down it is the underwriter that loses.
Next EVERYONE, the company, the underwriter, the subsequent investors is betting on the VALUE OF THE COMPANY.
All a stock market is, is the public valuing the company – as opposed to the founders, or underwriters.
Musk does not set the price of the stock, the underwriters do not set it. They merely chose the initial offer.
The market decides the actual price.
A scam requires not a false initial price, but fraudulent claims about the company itself, that are the basis for investors deciding what they are willing to pay for the stock.
“The institutional investors who actually get the IPO stock almost invariably flip it for big profits at the IPO.”
That is true in a fixed commitment underwrite where they paid for all that 639M shares of stock BEFORE the IPO at a price the that SpaceX agreed to. SpaceX gets GUARANTEED all the money the underwriter agreed to regardless of the stock performance,
and the Undrewriter gets to profit if the stock sells for the initial price.
“They effectively dump it on retail investors who are simply gambling that it will go up. ”
No one is forced to buy.
You claim to be a day trader – do you buy stock that you expect to go down ?
There is a mechanism for that – it is called short selling.
If you though that SpaceX was overpriced – you could agree to buy SpaceX stock at its market price at some date in the future – and separately agree to sell that stock at todays price again at some date in the future – if the stock goes down – you make money.
But if the stock goes up – you lose money.
Regardless investors are free to bet that the stoick will go up or that the stock will go down,
You claim you are a day trader – did you make a killing short selling SpaceX ?
You say “the experts” – presumably you mean the underwriters. Regardless, They are responsible for selling the stock. They produce the information that buyers use to decide to buy the stock – if that information is inaccurate – THEN they are guilty of fraud and the SEC is going to shaft them and DOJ may put them in jail. If the information is correct – then Buyers make the choice to buy or not – no one “Dumped” they stock on investors – you were free to buy or not.
BTW All day trading is, is bettering that you are better at valuing a stock than the “experts”.
All investing is betting that you are better at guessing the future value of something than others.
“There were 639 million shares allocated in the IPO. The trading volume on Day 1 was 510 million”
Which means that investors bet that the actual value of the company was at or above the closing value on day one.
“so almost all the shares were dumped.”
They were not dumped – they were bought.
If people did not want to pay the asking price – either fewer shares would have sold or the asking price would have to drop.
“. . . investors such as mutual funds . . . pension funds . . .” “. . . unload their allocations on the poor unsuspecting retail investors.”
You really are a pompous, clueless fool.
Fidelity, a *mutual fund*, has some 44 *million* retail investors. And pension funds are funded by *retail investors*.
There is no way this guy is a day trader. At most he is someone who plays a tiny bit with his IRA and loses money.
He does not understand pretty much everything about investing.
And like all left wing nuts – every outcome he does not like is someone else’s fault.
Everyone invested in a business BEFORE the IPO is a private investor. And All private investors are treated the same after the IPO.
There is no special privilege for mutual funds,, hedge funds, pension funds, and wealthy clients that invested BEFORE the IPO.
No that is NOT where trading on Day one comes from – The stock being sold is NEW Stock held by the company.
With come restrictions any company public or private can issue new stock at any time. But the stock in private companies is not traded on the open market where anyone can buy.
I own all the stock in one of my companies. I am not obligated to sell it to you or anyone else. But if I transform from a private to a public company – my stock would be available to anyone who wishes to buy.
Underwriting is common it is not a requirement. Underwriting is a form of insurance. The underwriters take a fee for insuring others against some loss.
Regardless while underwriters may receive a significant fee in a large IP O it is a tiny portion of the entire IPO.
There are many reasons for going public – but all are about raising money – either for the business or for the original investors to partly or fully cash out. But they are restricted in doing so rapidly, and even if they do so later – any large sales of stock by “insiders” – or even outsiders will likely crash the value.
And underwriter CAN buy all the shares being offered to the public and then sell them itself.
But that STILL is raising capital for the company, and it is the underwriter gambling that the public will buy at the initial offering price.
If they do not the underwriter could lose their shirt.
Regardless, they are NOT the original investors. They do not own anything until they buy it – assuming they do, and if that is ther arrangement – the company agrees to the underwriters price, gets their capital and the underwriter takes the risk the stock will sell for more.
If you are a “day trader” you are the stupidest one I have ever met.
Space X rescued the astronauts from the space station when Boeing couldn’t.
Who has been building space crafts for a long time (Boeing)
Quality wasn’t job 1 for them.
ATS – outside of very early days SpaceX has ALWAYS made a profit. Your getting too much left wing nut nonsense.
Musk had sufficient funds to Get SpaceX started – his plann budgetted – 3 launches before his funds ran out. After early but promising failuures he managed to fund 5 launches from his own pocket. Subsequently SpaceX has been making money – a great deal of money and while SLIGHTLY in the red early on – it has been operating profitably for a long time.
Amazon operated at a loss far longer than SpaceX did.
There is no scam here. whether you like it or not – there is lots of money to be made here.
“General Satellite Launch Statistics
As of 2024, a total of 8,135 satellites are active in low Earth orbit (LEO).
552 satellites are operating in geostationary orbits, while 200 satellites are in medium Earth orbit (MEO).
19 satellites are in high Earth orbit (HEO) or graveyard orbits, 5 are in orbital decay, and 11 are marked for reentry.
A total of 2,664 satellites were launched globally in 2023, indicating a 19% increase compared to 2022 (Source: BryceTech, 2024).
Of all satellites launched in 2023, 94% were classified as small satellites (mass < 600 kg), largely driven by commercial constellation deployments.
The United States contributed to 65% of the global satellite launches in 2023, maintaining the leading position among all countries.
SpaceX was responsible for 57% of global satellite launches in 2023, deploying over 1,500 Starlink satellites.
The commercial sector accounted for 85% of all satellite launches by volume in 2023, highlighting the growing role of private enterprises.
Communications satellites made up 35% of satellite payloads, followed by Earth observation at 27%, and technology demonstration at 16%.
Reusable launch vehicles were utilized in 39% of all orbital launches globally in 2023, improving launch efficiency and reducing costs.
The Asia-Pacific region contributed to 21% of global satellite launches, with China executing 67 successful orbital launches and deploying over 250 satellites.
Cubesats constituted 58% of all small satellite deployments in 2023, primarily for applications in research, imaging, and IoT.
The average launch cost per satellite in low Earth orbit declined by 23% between 2020 and 2023 due to increased use of rideshare missions and advancements in launch vehicle efficiency.
According to Satellite Launch Statistics 2023, a total of 615 satellites were launched into space during the year."
clown, SPCX qualifies as an IPO startup because of its merge enterprise created with XAI and the “share exchange” contractual provisions,
While this argument presents a highly cynical view of Elon Musk’s corporate maneuvers, it contains major factual errors regarding SpaceX’s actual financials, corporate structure, and the nature of its June 2026 public offering.Evaluating the claims step-by-step reveals how the financial mechanics actually work.1. Claim: SpaceX has “NEVER made a profit”False.While SpaceX is currently burning an immense amount of cash due to massive capital expenditures, it is factually incorrect to say it has never been profitable. According to SpaceX’s IPO prospectus, the company eked out a $756 million net profit in 2024 on $14 billion in revenue.The massive losses reported in 2025 (nearly $5 billion) and the accelerated losses in early 2026 are not from a failing legacy business, but rather from aggressive, forward-looking infrastructure investments. SpaceX is building the massive Starship rocket system, rapidly expanding the Starlink satellite fleet, and heavily funding an emerging orbital AI data center business.2. Claim: The IPO unloads Twitter/X debt onto “unsuspecting schmucks”Misunderstood corporate boundaries.The $13 billion in bank debt used to purchase Twitter (now X) is held directly by X Holdings Corp. and is legally secured against X itself, not SpaceX. A public offering for SpaceX (NASDAQ: SPCX) cannot legally be used to magically absorb or pay off the distinct debt of a separate corporate entity.The $85.7 billion raised in the record-breaking June 2026 IPO goes directly onto SpaceX’s balance sheet to fund its incredibly capital-intensive aerospace, Starlink, and AI compute operations.3. Claim: Musk “engineered a merger between SpaceX and X” to bail out PE investorsInaccurate.SpaceX did not merge with X to bail out Twitter investors. Instead, SpaceX absorbed xAI (Musk’s artificial intelligence venture), rebranding it as the SpaceXAI division.While it is true that X and its historical user data were integrated into this ecosystem to train the Grok AI model, private equity investors from the Twitter buyout did not get a cash “exit” at the expense of SpaceX. The integration was a strategic pivot to position SpaceX as a dominant player in space-based AI infrastructure. This pivot is exactly why Wall Street valued the combined company at $1.75 trillion to $2 trillion at IPO—major cloud hosting agreements signed with Google and Anthropic are expected to pull in over $2 billion a month in high-margin revenue.4. Claim: The tiny 5% stock float and 80% voting power control is “legal chicanery”Standard dual-class tech structure, not a scam.The mechanics described here are entirely accurate, but calling it “chicanery” ignores standard Silicon Valley governance practices:The Float: A small public float (around 5%) is a very common strategy for massive, highly anticipated IPOs to prevent extreme market volatility and preserve institutional stability.The Voting Power: Musk retains 82% of the voting power while owning a minority of the actual equity via Class B super-voting shares.This dual-class share structure is identical to how Mark Zuckerberg controls Meta or how Larry Page and Sergey Brin control Alphabet (Google). Public investors buy SPCX fully understanding that they are buying economic exposure to space and AI technology, not voting control over Elon Musk.Summary Table: Myth vs. Financial RealityThe AccusationThe Factual RealityNever ProfitableProfitable in 2024 ($756M); current losses are intentional R&D/AI data center spending.Bailing out Twitter DebtTwitter debt belongs strictly to X Holdings; IPO funds belong strictly to SpaceX growth.A Financial ScamRegulated SEC public offering backed by real revenue ($18.7B+ in 2025) and multi-billion dollar enterprise contracts.Rigged Voting PowerStandard dual-class share structure used by almost all major Silicon Valley founders.Venture capital and public market investors are highly sophisticated. They are not being “scammed”; they are intentionally placing an incredibly high-stakes bet that SpaceX’s monopoly on space launch, satellite internet, and orbital AI infrastructure will yield unparalleled long-term returns.
Thank you for an incredibly detailed rebutal of this faux day trader.
But the most important point you make is that Everything you note was KNOWN or KNOWABLE to those buying.
You can offer 650M shares of 1/4 acre of swamp land for $100/share if you want – so long as you properly disclose what you are selling there is no SCAM. If investors choose to buy 650M shares of something worthless for $100/share – that is up to them. No one forced them.
And if you bought some of those shares – that was your free choice.
Further if you really beleive the SpaceX IPO was a scan – then Short Sell SpaceX on Day 1.
Unless you are a moron, you do not buy stock without real knowledge of its likely future value.
If you think SpaceX is worthless – you are a moron. If you think SpaceX will not be work significantly more in the future and when it was first offered – you are a moron.
SpaceX dominates an industry that is growing explosively. SpaceX is making money putting thousands of private satellites into orbit – something no one thought could be done profitably.
While SpaceX has competitors – and that is a good thing – Bezos just blew up the only launch site he has for New Glenn – that is the Only heavy lift vehicle that competes with a Falcon 9 Heavy – much less StarShip. The US govenrment still has Atlas, and the Europeans still have Ariane , and the Russians have several choices – but ALL cost over 3 orders of magnitude more per pound than SpaceX. The Chinese are busy trying to clone the Falcon 9 – and they WILL eventually get there – but they are still more than a decade behind musk.
“. . . Spacex at its IPO last week has lost money.”
Uh, the company’s IPO was June 12 — which is not “last week.”
Its IPO price was $135. Now it’s about $150 — which is not “lost money.”
And you, apparently, know nothing about the history of IPO prices.
Sam,
That is correct.
Thank you for bringing facts to the table.
BTW, I believe this is the same annony who made disparaging comments about the Trump economy when the stock market was down during Trump’s first admin. He also claimed he makes over 100% in the stock market returns when I mentioned I average 14-16% y-o-y.
Sam
The IPO price was $135. That is the price that the institutional investors paid BEFORE the IPO. They unloaded all those shares on IPO day onto the poor unsuspecting retail investors.
On the first day of trading the stock never dropped below $150. Many paid up to $176. The stock just closed today at $145.30. The all time low for the stock was $145.20 for about an hour between 2pm and 3 pm on Jul 8. Anyone who bought SPCX on the IPO day has lost money. The only people who have actually made money, apart from the institutions who dumped everything on IPO day, are those who bought in that brief window between 2pm and 3pm on Wednesday, and they have made 0.0689% on their investment.
SpaceX stock is a scam.
Morningstar, the most respected independent financial research firm, places fair value for SpaceX at $62.
“They unloaded all those shares on IPO day onto the poor unsuspecting retail investors.”
Do you really not know who invests in mutual funds, like those managed by Fidelity? And do you really not know who the pension fund investors are?
Or are you just lying in order to vent your hostility on Musk?
X the Clown
The value of SpaceX alone is meaningless since the IPO established it as merged with XAI
the current value (today) is hovering around $150, with a 48% bull outlook vs. less than 5% bear outlook.
You don’t even know how to read the market. Stay out of things you know little about, or you could lose. Bigly.
What an AI clown this X character.
“The IPO price was $135.”
Institutional investors were not obligated to buy – not at that price not at any price. They CHOSE to do so.
“”They unloaded all those shares on IPO day onto the poor unsuspecting retail investors.”
You claim it was a scam. You claim morningstar priced the shares at half that.
People who bought when the market opened knew or could have known everything you claim to know today.
They were not forced to buy either.
People do not “unload” at a high price. Nor do they buy something they think is not worth what they are paying – not individual investors not institutional investors.
The most important charachteristic of the free market – and why it works is that it is FREE. There is no force involved.
“On the first day of trading the stock never dropped below $150.”
By definition in economics the price of anything is what a winning buyer and a willing seller chose to exchange at.
There was no coercion, there was not misrepresentation – everything you claim to know now, was know by purchasers.
“Many paid up to $176.”
They did so freely – buy choice.
“The stock just closed today at $145.30. ”
Because that is what people were willing to sell for and buy at, at the close today. FREELY.
“The all time low for the stock was $145.20 for about an hour between 2pm and 3 pm on Jul 8.”
Because that is what buyers and sellers were willing to exchange at between 2-3pm July 8.
“Anyone who bought SPCX on the IPO day has lost money.”
Only if they sold lower than they bought. If they bought shares and have not sold them they have lost nothing.
Profits and losses do not occur until you sell.
”
The only people who have actually made money, apart from the institutions who dumped everything on IPO day, are those who bought in that brief window between 2pm and 3pm on Wednesday, and they have made 0.0689% on their investment.”
Your bad at math. Anyone who bought at the open and sold at 176 made money.
Anyone who has bought but not sold has neither made nor lost anything yet.
“SpaceX stock is a scam.” Because there is less than 10% volatitility shortly after the IPO ?
That is an idiot claim.
“Morningstar, the most respected independent financial research firm, places fair value for SpaceX at $62.”
And they may be right – if you think so short SPCX – if Morningstar is correct you will make a fortune.
You CLEARLY have no knowledge of stock trading.
You do not seem to grasp that just as you can bet that a stock will increase in value you can also bet that it will decease.
Any day trader would know that. Anyone who has paid the slightest attention to the SEC knows that.
You can bet that a stock will go up in value, you can bet it will go down.
MDS. Musk Derangement Syndrome.
Isn’t this sweat? JT talks about this while he supports a pedophile in the White House who has been found legally liable for sexual abuse of a female?
JT the (un) honest broker of truth.
Isn’t this sweat? No. Sweat is that stinky wet stuff dripping off your fat ass.
Trump was found innocent of all left wing nut lawfare when a Jury of nearly 80m people acquitted him in 2024.
Voters chose and the majority decided YOU LIE.
John Say,
Well said and quite right.
Carrol could not name the year her so-called sexual assault happened, changing the year several times. She posed in a outfit for the cover of a fashion magazine claiming it was the dress Trump supposedly sexually assaulted her.
However, that outfit was not made till years later. Even the NYT fact checkers had to own that one.
Carrol was not a credible accuser. And it was a sham, kangaroo trial.
Everyone knows it.
Her case relied on the testimony of “friends” who failed to call police when the event ostensibly occurred. We presume these “friends” were good people, and good people would have called the police because it was absolutely the right thing to do.
This case should have been thrown out. I would have laughed these people out of court from the jury box.
How much corruption is there in New York?
Nor did Carroll or anyone else Identify Trump as the alleged person having sex with Carroll until 2020.
Carroll wrote an advice column and discussed rape, and sexual assault – she wrote books in which she accused as many as 80 men of sexually assaulting her – but NEVER mentioned Trump – not in her column, not in her books, and not to her friends – until 2020.
The person guilty of defamation if Carroll – and Trump’s mistake was in not suing her first.
After Trumps felony convictions are overturned, I’m waiting for one of those morons on the view to call him a convicted felon. Then he’s going to hit them with a lawsuit like we’ve never seen before.
I hope that happens, I expect that to happen – but it may not happen. SCOTUS refused to hear Trump’s EJC appeal.
While they should have – they are not obligated to. They are not obligated to even if they believe it was wrongly decided.
There is pretty much no consequence to Trump of the NYC felony conviction. Thje fact that he went on to get elected means people do not believe the conviction or do not care. There is no harm, therefore there is little injustice to correct. Coruts including SCOTUS do not like taking cases that only matter emotionally.
So how would Walz’s basis of pardoning him be any different than applying those same principles to an honor killing for a Islamic fundamentalist?
Too bad we can’t deport Tampon Tim Walz.
Deport only Tim Walz?
Former Border Patrol Commander, Greg Bovino, says another 90 million illegal aliens must be deported and he is right.
“I would have loved to have arrested, oh, I don’t know, 99 million of those 100 million illegal aliens that are still here,” Bovino said.
There are only about 250 million Americans left in America within a total of 320 million people in the country.
250 mill 🤔 endangered
It’s been a fun adventure in lalaland. It proves immigrants are hungrier than Americans and will use by any means necessary to meet their end.
SCOTUS did jump on board without whom they could not succeed.
Gbye folks and extreme condolences.
So how would Walz’s basis of pardoning him be any different than applying those same principles to an American citizen or is it preferable that rape be uniquely American?
See Danny Masterson
Three Months To Justice – Tyler Robinson assassinated Charlie Kirk on September 10, 2025, 10 months ago. Abraham Lincoln was assassinated on April 15, 1865. Four Lincoln assassination conspirators—Mary Surratt, Lewis Powell, David Herold, and George Atzerodt—were hanged on July 7, 1865.
AI Overview
The U.S. State Department blocked a planned meeting between the New York City Mayor’s Office for International Affairs and Iran’s UN ambassador. Commissioner Ana María Archila had scheduled talks with Amir-Saeid Iravani on July 7, 2026, but the State Department intervened to clarify acceptable diplomatic conduct, forcing the meeting to be canceled.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
AI Overview
A municipal official can be prosecuted under federal law if they attempt to negotiate on behalf of the United States with a foreign nation without explicit executive authorization. Under the U.S. Constitution, the power to conduct foreign relations and negotiate national concerns is strictly vested in the federal Executive Branch. When subnational officials overstep these bounds, they expose themselves to unique federal liabilities.
The Logan Act Violation
The primary legal mechanism for such a prosecution is the Logan Act (18 U.S.C. § 953).The Law: It criminalizes any unauthorized attempt by a U.S. citizen—regardless of whether they hold a local, municipal, or state office—to correspond or negotiate with a foreign government to influence national disputes or defeat U.S. measures.
The Penalty: Violations are classified as federal felonies, carrying penalties of fines and up to three years in federal prison.
Mamdani Commits Federal Crime
trump and Hegseth committed war crimes when they bombed a school with over 100 girls in it in Iran. They committed war crimes when they killed people in boats in the open ocean near South America.
Your point about Mamdani is…?
AI Overview
No, Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth did not commit war crimes.Under both international and United States military law, a mistake caused by outdated intelligence data during a war does not legally constitute a war crime. For an action to be a war crime, it requires criminal intent—meaning the military must have explicitly intended to target civilians or deliberately struck a target knowing the civilian casualties would be vastly disproportionate to the military objective.The official facts established by the U.S. military’s internal investigation confirm that the bombing of the school in Minab, Iran, was a tragic accident:The Target: The U.S. Navy Tomahawk missile was aimed at an active Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) naval compound.The Error: The strike relied on seven-year-old intelligence data. Commanders did not know the property had been separated and that a portion of it was being operated as a girls’ public school.Because the civilian deaths were the result of an intelligence failure rather than a deliberate decision to target children, it does not meet the legal definition of a war crime. Consequently, no legal charges have been brought, and no prosecution has taken place.
Uh, oh! Anon is a liar and a fraud.
I agree YOU ARE!!
You, meaning Google AI, Einstein?
NOPE! JUST YOU MORON ANON!! KAMALA?
E = mc², right?
You are no Einstein MORON ANON!!
True, like Obama murdered Innocent men women and children in a targeted attack on a wedding. https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral/us-drone-attack-marriage-procession-yemen