A University of California advisory board suspended the much-celebrated planned review of the system’s admissions policies to bring back standardized testing requirements for undergraduate applicants. The decision of the academic senate’s Board of Admissions and Relations with Schools is not surprising to many of us who have been critical of the system in abandoning objective standards for admissions.
Ahmet Palazoglu, chair of the system’s academic senate, confirmed that the faculty group was ”revising its timeline” for ”a comprehensive review of standardized testing in admissions.”
As various schools reversed the disastrous abandonment of standardized testing, the California system continues to slow-walk the process. Many of the advocates of abandoning standardized testing to advance diversity in admissions are relatively silent in the face of falling academic standards. However, there was still a successful effort behind the scenes to delay any restoration.
As I have previously written, the University of California system was an early supporter of this disastrous move. It was heralded as a way to preserve diversity after voters in California repeatedly rejected race-based admissions and the Supreme Court appeared ready to bar such practices (commonly proven with reference to standardized test differentials among applicants).
Now, many professors in the California system have come to the same conclusion as some of us who denounced the move years ago. They have witnessed the drop in academic skills and abilities among incoming students.
The value of standardized testing was well established years ago. The claim that additional time is needed to contemplate the change is consistent with the university’s prior record. It previously studied the question and then ignored the findings to end the use of standardized testing.
These tests not only have the greatest predictive power for performance but also play an important role in advancing minority students. Former University of California President Janet Napolitano, however, overrode those conclusions.
Napolitano responded to such criticism with a Standardized Testing Task Force in 2019. Many people expected the task force to recommend the cessation of standardized testing. The task force did find that 59 percent of high school graduates were Latino, African-American, or Native American, but only 37 percent were admitted as UC freshman students. The Task Force did not find standardized testing to be unreliable or call for its abandonment, however.
Instead, its final report concluded that “At UC, test scores are currently better predictors of first-year GPA than high school grade point average (HSGPA), and about as good at predicting first-year retention, [University] GPA, and graduation.”
Not only that, it found: “Further, the amount of variance in student outcomes explained by test scores has increased since 2007 … Test scores are predictive for all demographic groups and disciplines … In fact, test scores are better predictors of success for students who are Underrepresented Minority Students (URMs), who are first generation, or whose families are low-income.” In other words, test scores remain the best indicator for continued performance in college.
That clearly was not the result Napolitano or some others wanted. So, she simply announced a cessation of the use of such scores in admissions. The system would go to a “test-blind” system until it developed its own test.
Ending standardized testing had an obvious secondary purpose: to frustrate new legal challenges to the use of race in college admissions.
We have also seen the dismal decline in standards at elite universities like Harvard, where faculty have been compelled to teach high school-level math classes to students.
Various schools have now reversed this ridiculous move pushed by faculty and administrators in the cause of racial diversity. The proponents of the change, such as Napolitano, have said little after they decimated the academic integrity and standing of their schools.
The UC faculty cited the UC San Diego Senate–Administration Workgroup on Admissions report, which found that 70 percent of these students are performing below a middle-school level.
Like Harvard, faculty are now teaching high-school-level math.
The trust of the new push to restore standardized testing has focused on STEM subjects. In a June 5 open letter, STEM faculty raised the alarm that UC has regularly admitted students who cannot complete college-level coursework.
UC Board Chair Maria Anguiano insisted that they just needed more time before reintroducing testing that it required by the vast majority of schools: “The goal of this review is not to rehash old questions or data but an opportunity to take a fresh look at how we define and evaluate college readiness in a rapidly changing world.”
For many critics, this comes off as a state academic system contemplating its collective navel as academic standards plummet. Neither the public nor many of the faculty want to continue on the terrible course taken under Napolitano. However, even on this easy and straightforward question, the faculty is dragging its feet to study the matter further — after previously disregarding the results of a study supporting standardized testing.
Don’t raise the bridge; lower the water
Equally true: as the masses of water become higher, the bridge is lower.
Democrats fixed the abysmal downward trending test scores we’ve been seeing from high school students for decades the same way they fix everything; by degrading or eliminating the tests themselves, instead of helping the students having trouble.
Once those students finally realize they’re only being used for power and profit by those Far Left college administrators and professors, who don’t care how their students’ lives turn out, perhaps they will demand better?
In the meantime, no federal tax dollars should go to those awful places until their faculty and test scores both improve.
Oregon schools still require students to take reading, writing, and math classes, but students no longer need to pass standardized high school exit exams or standardized proficiency assessments in those subjects to graduate.
Instead of remedial classes for first-year college students, why are we allowing students to graduate from high school without evidenced competency at the HS level? (-And kids really resented being sent to “summer school” remedial courses before they could say they were “HS graduates>”)
I thought HSs administered some sort of competency exam to all students prior to receiving HS diploma? IS that gone now?
*. A GED that can provide a HS exit after two years at age 16 is what you reference. Move to Junior College, Community College for two years yields an AA degree as undergraduate work, age 18. Two more years at State college or University yields a BA or BS, age 20. Minimal cost if it’s utilized. Many choose additional coursework in summers shortening the time required.
Remedial is available via computerized coursework including languages etc. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
*. There’s a flip side argument addressing the psychology of poverty. Young people in poverty traps may give up trying via depression, hopelessness, any failure confirming event, and actual beatings and tearing down of any attempt to succeed. Poverty creates its own vicious cycle of failure. People see themselves as victims.
This is not general education.
It is YOUR LIFE
If you see yourself as a victim – YOU CHOSE to see yourself that way.
Even if you are ACTUALLY a victim – no one else is going to saver you – no one else can.
If you are in the bottom 20% of the US – you are in the top 10% of the world – you live better than kings a century ago.
No, that is not what I am referencing, but thanks. I searched whether states still require an exit competency exam before awarding diplomas, and AI quickly responded that only six states do today,– and guess what, are five of the six Red states?
“Only six states currently require high school exit exams for graduation…a significant decline from previous years.
“The following table lists the states that still have mandatory high school exit exams:
State Exit Exam Requirement
Florida Yes
Louisiana Yes
Ohio Yes
New Jersey Yes
Texas Yes
Virginia Yes
At the exact moment our pants are firmly around our knees, IRAN is ready to unleash a drone attack we cannot defend.
The only reason we care about tests is because they measure things.
It is not the test that matters it is what it measures.
SATs measure intelligence, contra left wing nuts here they do not measure cultural literacy – the latter can be fixed, the former can not.
Colleges care – or cared about SATs because they predict success in college and in life. Perfectly – nope, but well enough for colleges to risk accepting one student over another. But it is success in college that is what we are trying to measure. If there was a better measure – ECT would use it.
Regardless the objective is still to accept the students most likely to succeed.
With respect to proficiency tests – it is not the test that matters – it is teaching students proficiency – the test merely measures the success of the teachers.
In critiques of the Bush No Child LEft Behind program – we hear lots of criticism of “teaching to the test” – as if that is inherently bad.
But is it ? If the test is of proficiency, and the teachers are teaching proficiency – that is what we want.
There is no problem with testing – except that we must be sure we are actually testing what we want to see students acheive.
Because the goal is not the test – it is proficiency in math and reading as an example.
One of the problems with the left wing nut arguments here is they have the wrong goals.
Their goal is not better educated students or a degree that demonstrates accomplishment and excellence.
Their goal is skin color – racism.
Not success – not even success for minorities.
Eventually, this lunacy will trickle down and impact pretty much everyone, and we are past the point anyone could in good faith wonder what the heck happened. And again: all of those tens of millions people that could conceivably flee such places – they have to go somewhere. That likely means your state that you thought was untouchable. They will bring their nonsense with them.🤷🏻♂️
the statisticians ran the projected outcome and they realized that they would lose 99% of their minority students with such a move so they retrenched into their woke fetal position.
Think of the savings on defaulting student loans…
They would lose a lot, but not 99%!
Still, the notion upsets their stomachs.
Hey mama, I wonder if you could pass any college’s entrance exam.
How many of the commenters here have an advanced degree? Based on the comments here, I’d have to say less than 1%.
I had a full scholarship back in 1960s, deans list and an admiral graduate entrance exam score for graduate school. And that was in the late 60s, far higher standards than anything being cranked out recently. How’s your prog brain comprehending that data? You youngsters have been convinced that you are so smart, when, in fact. You are totally ignorant of your own ignorance, and self-possessed beyond belief.
I would agree, you don’t.
“I wonder if you could pass any college’s entrance exam.”
Obviously you couldn’t because you don’t know the difference between ad hominem (your go to smear) and an argument.
BA Political Science, JD Law, attorney for 49 years. What are your degrees in? Are you a lawyer? Based on your comments you’re not.
I used to comment on this blog regularly, but know I just read Prof. Turkey’s articles, read the comments of those I think make intelligent ones, and laugh at the stupid comments from the paid “Anonymous, X,”and there others who never lay a foundation that they have any expertise, education, or are actually licensed attorneys.
There are some very good commentators on the blog, e.g., whimiscalmoma, lin, upstatefarmer, and a few others.
Otherwise, the rest are just paid hacks trying to act intelligent. The problem is there is not a cogent, independent thought amongst them. They simply regurgitate the Dem/lib/socialist-communist talking points.
If you don’t like what I’ve said, I don’t care.
So why do high school graduates enter college as freshman unable to do high school math? Could it be because high school teachers can’t teach? And where were these “teachers” taught to teach? At these same universities and colleges where college faculty are required to teach entering first year students high school math. In addition to trying to decide whether or not to use standardized testing scores in the college admission process, maybe these schools should review the quality and competence of the graduates of their “schools of education” before these future teachers are granted their degree. Rather than force college math professors to teach remedial math to poorly prepare first year college students, administrators should require it be taught by professors in the Education school. Maybe then they will learn how what their graduates are teaching to middle and high school students is a failure and make necessary adjustments. However, having observed the degree of incompetence of some college education school professors and their tendency toward intransigence first hand, I’m not hopeful.
College professors are forced to teach remedial math because **K-12 schools**have a massive teacher shortage, not because of campus “ideology.” Turley is simply using rage-bait to blame “woke” ideas instead of looking a more basic problem.
To fill empty teaching positions, states are **actively lowering standards and hiring unqualified staff.** This is a nationwide problem, not a political culture war:
47 states allow people to teach **without full credentials**. Over **400,000 uncertified teachers** are leading classrooms right now.
**The Funding Gap:**Low-income schools are 4 times more likely to have an **uncertified**teacher than wealthy suburbs.
Look at how states across the political spectrum are cutting corners to bypass teacher training:
**Florida:** Lets military veterans teach for 5 years without a bachelor’s degree.
**Texas:** Lets local boards completely bypass state certification laws to fill STEM classes.
**Arizona:** Lets people lead classrooms before they even graduate college.
**New Jersey:** Completely eliminated the basic skills exam requirement for new teachers.
**New Mexico:**Dropped elementary testing requirements entirely to boost applicant numbers.
**Oklahoma & Missouri:** Dropped or heavily modified basic skills math tests for incoming teachers.
When states cut corners and put uncertified adults in high school classrooms, students fall behind. Don’t blame “woke professors” when the real problem is that students were never taught properly in the first place. Especially in poor districts.
Excactly right. It’s seen time and time again. When a state invests in K-12 education through raising taxes or reprioritizing its spending, kids standardized test scores improve, and more move on to college programs where they have higher graduation rates. It’s really not rocket science. And isn’t it worth it? Investing in kids means investing in society. And yes – these Universities were worried about leaving minority kids behind and were worried about systemic racism and bias in standardized testing, so tried something different. But at least they have looked at the outcome data objectively and reassessed. That’s a good thing. Turley just wants to rage-bait to sell his stupid book. He refuses to tell the entire story time and time again.
Anonymous. I completely agree. Increase spending on education.
Randi Weingarten not getting enough payday for ya?
X – the left has owned public education for 60 years
This is YOUR failure.
You had many many chances to fix it – YOU FAILED.
You got everything you wanted – YOU FAILED
It is time for actual adults who are not total morons to fix the problems.
It is time for people that understand that SAT performance has nothing to to with knowledge of Cricket or sailing.
That even if it did – that can be taught,
that SAT performance correlates very strongly to success in college and success in life – and THAT is what testing companies are selling – a high quality predictor of educational success. If knowledge of Cricket and sailing strongly correlated to success in college and in left – the SATs would be filled with Cricket questions, and High Schools would be teaching Cricket day and night. Instead of ranting about the SATs – which are extremely good at predicting success in college and in life
you SHOULD be asking WHY those with poor SAT skills are failing in college and in left and what can be done ?
HINT you do not fix that by corrupting or blaming the test.
“When a state invests in K-12 education through raising taxes or reprioritizing its spending, kids standardized test scores improve . . .”
Hogwash.
New York ranks middle of the pack nationally for k-12 testing and educational quality. It spends some $32k/student.
Mississippi ranks 16th in the nation. It spends about $14k/student.
Leave it to a Leftist/socialist to believe that throwing good money after bad is a good idea.
Sam,
You brag about Mississippi ranking 16th while spending less, but you ignore how they got there. Mississippi used to rank dead last in education. Their historic rise was funded directly by the 2013 Literacy-Based Promotion Act, which poured millions of dollars into intensive teacher training, state-funded reading coaches, and early childhood literacy programs. Mississippi’s success is a direct result of targeted, state-funded investment, not a lack of funding.
A landmark study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) tracked decades of school finance data across the country. The researchers found that a 10% increase in per-pupil spending over a student’s K-12 years leads to higher test scores, more completed years of education, and a 3.6% reduction in adult poverty. The positive effects were overwhelmingly pronounced for low-income students
Money matters when it is invested directly into smaller class sizes, competitive teacher salaries to prevent shortages, and evidence-based reading interventions. Calling factual investments “throwing good money after bad” isn’t fiscal conservatism—it’s just a refusal to look at the data.
X
Please learn to read
Absolutely NO ONE has said that INVESTMENT in education does not produce results.
INVESTMENT – is NOT throwing money at the problem
As Sam noted – Mississippi produces better results for half the cost.
THAT is INVESTING.
NY pays a fortune for poor results – that is wasteful spending.
No one is interested in your Claims as to how to improve education – because you FAILED.
That does not means that some of your WORDS are not loosely aligned with solutions – it means that no matter what you have SAID, you have FAILED.
Sometimes that is because you took the money and did not do what you said.
Sometimes it is because while things like class sizes are A FACTOR – they are NOT sufficient alone.
One of the problems with those who throw money at a problem is they think that actually fixes the problem.
That never works.
The world improves because we get MORE value for LESS human effort – that is true in education too.
It is not spending that fixes problems – it is performing the task well – SOMETIMES SOME money is needed for that.
Though sometimes it actually means spending LESS.
But you HAVE NOT seen it time and again. There is no correlation between education spending and student performance.
The most expensive public schools in the country have the worst education.
Investing in kids is important.
But left wing nuts think burning money is investing.
Real investors demand the maximum value produced for the least cost.
Education is no different – throwing money at problems does not solve them – it usually makes them worse.
Give credit where credit is due. This is the first time that I partially agree with the basic premise of your comment.
However, consistent with your style, you LEFT OUT a few details.
examples:
“In Arizona, people can now start training to become a teacher without a bachelor’s degree, AS LONG AS they are enrolled in college and are supervised by a licensed teacher. ”
“And in Florida, military veterans without a bachelor’s degree can now receive a five-year teaching certificate, AS LONG AS they have completed at least 60 college credits with a 2.5 grade point average and can pass a state exam to demonstrate mastery of subject-area knowledge.”
AND, if you read the article I link, it appears that the incentive for this shortcut is significantly due to an emphasis on DEI DIVERSITY. See subheading: “Proponents say the change can help diversify the profession.”
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/states-crack-open-the-door-to-teachers-without-college-degrees/2022/08
Lin, thanks for the acknowledgment. Now, respectfully, skipping the fine print to blame “DEI” is exactly the kind of poor reading comprehension that wrecks these discussions.
Let’s look at the facts directly from the text from your link:
The Arizona supervision rule has a massive loophole: The article explicitly states: “However, if these candidates have an emergency teacher certificate… they can teach without supervision.” They are putting undergraduate students alone in classrooms to act as full-time teachers.
The policy was caused by shortages, not DEI: The text states 72% of principals did not have enough applicants to fill open positions. States lowered standards out of raw desperation to fill empty desks, not because of a progressive agenda.
You misinterpreted the “diversity” quote: The state lawmakers did not pass this for DEI. In Florida, Governor DeSantis explicitly framed it as a military-friendly initiative. The “diversity” comment was just a local principal trying to find a silver lining in a bad situation.
A military veteran with 60 college credits or an unsupervised college sophomore is still not a certified, fully trained teacher. These states are cutting corners to fix a hiring crisis, and the students are the ones paying the price when they get to college.
(sorry for length)
Poor George/X: Don’t say I didn’t try. Please spare your effort to misrepresent MY position or MY words, as that constitutes intentional dishonesty (although I do not think you are clever enough to try that; I think you were simply seeking any contrary twist from AI).
I, repeat, I, me, moi, myself, I am not the one “blam[ing] DEI” or ‘misinterpret[ing] the ‘diversity’ quote. I simply linked to a single article (there are several) that discuss the need for teachers.
In your frenzy to prove me wrong, you stepped on your own foot, yet again, by creating an argument that does not exist.
(1) If you had read the article, how did you manage to confuse “diversity quote” with FLORIDA?
This is YOUR (X’s) incorrect sentence: “You [lin] misinterpreted the ‘diversity’ quote: The state lawmakers did not pass this for DEI. In Florida, Governor DeSantis explicitly framed it as a military-friendly initiative…”
Unfortunately for you, X, my cited link directly, exclusively, and explicitly references ARIZONA, not Florida!!!
Indeed, I even specifically referred to the appropriate excerpt, -now included for your benefit:
SUBHEADING: “Proponents say the change can help diversify the profession”
TEXT: “Even so, proponents of the Arizona policy change say that expanding access into the profession is a good thing.
Tonya Strozier, the principal of the Holladay Fine Arts Magnet Elementary School in Tucson, Ariz., said she thinks the policy change is an opportunity to diversify the teacher pipeline and better meet the needs of students of color.”
(2) You then attribute to me yet another opinion I did not make (your go-to tactic). You argue, “States lowered standards out of raw desperation to fill empty desks, not because of a progressive agenda.” WHO STATED THAT A PROGRESSIVE AGENDA WAS THE CAUSE? You certainly did not read that from me…..
(3) You are making assumptions not in the facts. Although you like to say, “not in evidence,” when you pretend a legal stance, how do you know that those hired by using the lower standards do NOT represent a higher percentage of minorities? You don’t know, do you, X? And neither do I. Which is why I did not assert that position, –but that didn’t stop YOU from doing it.
In sum, X/George: I proffered a simple acknowledgement that you were correct in saying there is a shortage of competent teachers and that some districts and states have leaned on utilizing “teachers” with less than baccalaureate degrees.
Instead, you attempted to score points by defending against arguments I did not make. You completely fabricated ideas, points, or opinions coming from me, then used them to create your combative response. It has further lowered an understanding of your ability to read and comprehend, X.
I’m hoping that some people will take the time to read this and get to know you better, X.
Thanks again.
X
Do not care about any of that.
Do not care about your claims.
Do not care about what you say even when the words have some close proximity to possibly correct.
YOU FAILED – YOUR FIRED.
And we need an electorate that grasps that and does EXACTLY THAT.
After that – throw darts at the list of teaching applicants to select teachers for all I care.
Fire those who fail – reward those who succeed.
THAT is how “investing” works.
Leave the criteria to those doing the hiring.
If they hire failure – FIRE THEM
If they hire success – reward them.
Lin – I do not give a schiff what someone’s background is. MAYBE I MIGHT care a little about a degree.
First I care about a proven track record of performance.
You want better teachers – pay them for success. Fire them for failure.
All the other stuff is trying to stack the deck for success when you hire.
It means absolutely nothing if the person fails.
And not all that much if they succeed/
George “Turley is simply using rage-bait to blame “woke” ideas …” Prove it.
The Math Proof: Turley claims colleges are losing public trust because they are too “woke” and alienate conservatives. But the poll shows Republican confidence barely moved, shifting just 3 points (26% to 23%). The entire 2026 drop was driven by Democrats, whose confidence cratered by 11 points (61% to 50%). The data shows a liberal backlash, not a conservative boycott.
The Grievance Proof: Turley uses the phrase “perceived political agenda” to mean progressive indoctrination. But Gallup’s actual data shows that a top political complaint listed by respondents was “Trump administration interference in higher education” (8%). The anger is about right-wing political mandates hitting colleges, not just faculty bias.
The Economic Proof: Turley blames financial struggles and campus closures entirely on ideological bias. But Gallup proves that the top reasons Americans lack confidence are skyrocketing tuition costs (30%) and poor workforce preparation (25%).
Turley took a poll about student debt, job readiness, and government interference, completely stripped out the facts, and rewrote it into a generic culture-war narrative. That is the literal definition of rage-bait.
^^^^Looks like X goofed and posted his AI lifts under the wrong article. Sounds like this belongs under the Gallup poll article by Turley. Poor georgie.
Yes – even democrats are getting red pilled.
EVERYONE should have a total lack of confidence in education.
Our system is failing – and it is YOUR fault.
Even YOU should have no confidence.
8% is not statistically significant.
Regardles I am upset about Trump meddling in colleges – he should just cut funding ENTIRELY – not on some political basis.
I have no doubt that the political changes Trump demands will happen – or these institution;s will fail.
But I trust the markets to do that – not the president – not any president.
Why is tuition going up – because education is insulated from free markets. Fix that – and the problem goes away.
and what created the teacher shortage? people with intelligence who do not adhere to the woke prerequisite to get certified as a teacher have found other professions. What is left is the dregs of the culture who were dumb enough to fall for the prog agenda. To put it exactly, the best of the best eschew the entire education agenda.
Plus, I worked as a substitute teacher years ago and the amount of chaos in the class rooms, even then, because of these ill-mannered little toddler/despots make it impossible to command a classroom. I get offers to do substituting all the time and I say- no way – do I want to enter that intellectual wasteland.
The prog left academics who control the “spigot” through which new teachers pass have so poisoned the system that real thinkers and doers just pass on by and find other careers. Teaching has become a unionized cesspool of agenda and money grabbing with teaching the basics at the far end of the list.
The proof of this is a constant slide in results starting with the initial ramifications of the welfare state and affirmative action, followed by DEI and all the other sad prefabricated excuses for the now obvious decline of minority life achievement. If you want to place the blame, blame LBJ and his democrat congress for cementing the progressive agenda onto our nation.
Academics and economists track workforce numbers, not culture-war grievance. Data from the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) proves that public school teachers earn 26.4% lessthan other college-educated workers with similar skills and experience. People aren’t leaving over DEI; they are leaving because they cannot afford a mortgage or childcare on a starting teacher’s salary.
You noted firsthand that classroom behavior and administrative chaos made you refuse to go back. That is an operational, systemic issue—not a political one. Studies tracking teacher burnout consistently find that unmanageable workloads, lack of administrative support, and high stress are the primary reasons educators quit.
Trying to blame a massive labor market shortage on a 1960s welfare policy or modern culture-war buzzwords is classic scapegoating. The shortage is simple math: if an industry offers high stress, safety concerns, and a 26% wage penalty, the market will find better-paying jobs elsewhere.
Really do not give a schiff about academics who track workforce numbers.
While I could point out that teachers put in about half the hours that a normal college educated professional does, or that there is no particular reason a teacher needs a college degree – The job is no more skilled than non-specialist nurses. Or that the benefits that School Teachers get are far bnetter than most people with college degrees.
All of that is actually irrelevant – as the ONLY correct price for anything is what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree to.
You can not empirac;y calculate any price.
You claim there is a labor shortage – while I am highly dubious of that claim – Mississippi is doing quite well – they are producing students better prepared for college than any blue state and their cost per pupil is less than half that of DC or NYC.
But even that does not matter – if there is truly a labor shortage – then schools will have to pay more – the laws of supply and demand dictate that.
But we are not seeing that which strongly suggest any labor shortage is either inconsequential, local or a figment or you and some academics imagination.
Regardless we do not need academics and economists to tell us what the correct wage for a teacher is – that will ALWAYS be worked out by the market.
That may result in teachers getting far more than I think they should. It may mean less – but the free market price is the only correct price.
I would note however that AGAIN one of the stupid things that left wing nuts have done to education is massively increase the number of people in schools that are NOT teachers. The sole purpose of a school is to teach children – every other position in a schools only value is in improving the teachers ability to teach effectively.
This same problem has occured at colleges – Turely fixates onm the number of conservative vs. the number of left wing nut professors – but colleges today has as many if not more administrators as professors – and worse still – there are fewer and fewer full professors and more and more adjuncts or graduate students teaching – I do not have huge problems with that. I do have huge problems with so many people working for a college that have nothing to do with teaching.
Wer have similar problems at public schools – though not as bad as colleges.
There may be a teacher shortage in left wing nut places that increasingly no one wants to or can afford to live.
But I gave you a list of the 10 states best preparing students for college – NONE of those are having problems affording teachers.
I gave you a list of the most expensive states to educate a kid in the country – none of those were on the list of the top states fro education.
I strongly suspect there is a growing general labor shortage in placed like NYC.
But that is what happens as you turn cities into schiff holes.
One of the big problems with ALL of your post is that you OBVIOUSLY are a socialist.
I keep telling you that the correct price for anything is what a buyer and seller freely agree to.
That is actually very important. It means that you do not need to centrally plan prices. The inability for socialist systems to calculate prices – “the socialist calculation problem” was pointed out in the 30’s and ultimately established as a fatal flaw of socialism by the 50’s.
Yet here you are trying to micro manage education – as if that can ever possibly work. You want to discuss stress and myriads of other factors as reasons teachers should get paid more – and those are arguments. But that is all they are. You can not calculate mathematically the price of ANYTHING.
Prices do not work that way. you can not plan them. There is no formula for them.
They are worked out by the free market.
You actually KNOW this – some of the time. Hormuz is closed – energy prices go up, Hormuz is open – they go down.
Except that even that – is a factor only until it isn’t. If Hormuz remains closed long enough – the market finds new sources of supply.
This is the laws of supply and demand.
You rant about all the factors you think are relevant to teachers wages – they are only relevant if they ACTUALLY create a shortage of teachers.
You claim that – but except for possible local shortages in blue cities – the evidence is not there.
Again the states that are best preparing students for college are not on the list of states paying the most to educate students.
The GOAL is not paying teachers
“While traveling by car during one of his many overseas travels, Professor Milton Friedman spotted scores of road builders moving earth with shovels instead of modern machinery. When he asked why powerful equipment wasn’t used instead of so many laborers, his host told him it was to keep employment high in the construction industry. If they used tractors or modern road building equipment, fewer people would have jobs was his host’s logic.
“Then instead of shovels, why don’t you give them spoons and create even more jobs?” Friedman inquired.”
The goal is a decent education for students at a reasonable cost.
Note we are NEITHER optimizing for quality of education – NOR for cost. The free market is not just going to apply the laws of supply and demand – it is going to factor in how badly we want a quality education and how much we have to spend – and how important to us everything else we want is that we might have to give up if we spend too much on education.
The CORE of “the socialist calculation problem” is that something which free markets work out at little or no cost – Prices, are otherwise incalculable.
You keep introducing factors and academics and economists – as if it is possible to crunch the numbers and derive the correct wage.
You can not do that for anything. You can not do it with the worlds largest super computer or an army of academics and economists.
But a free market can not only do it easily – but dynamically – if anything changes – the market works it out often near instantly.
*. The psychology of poverty and poverty traps cannot be the psychology of general education. The antidote is opportunity and personal responsibility. If you’re deficient here’s the resources on your time.
Public school spending is 4 times what it was 60 years ago AFTER adjusting for inflation.
DC Schools spend more than any other public schools in the country – more than nearly all private schools and churn out students who can not read and can not add.
The left has go9tten EVERYTHING it wanted in education for decades
Money – check
Higher pay for teachers – check.
all kinds of looney education programs – check.
AND YOU HAVE FAILED
No one cares what you think the cause of the problem is
YOU FAILED
You had 60 years – YOU FAILED.
While education is farther left today than ever
it has not been in the control of the right almost anywhere for my entire lifetime
YOU FAILED
YOU OWN THIS MESS
Your idiotic claims DO NOT MATTER
Yes this is a political issue – not really a culture issue
You had the power, you had control YOU FAILED.
YOUR IDEOLOGY FAILED
In fact your ideology has failed in EVERYTHING IT HAS TOUCHED
The problems in US education – the left.
the problems in US healthcare – the left.
Violence in our cities – the left.
States with the highest SAT scores.
North Dakota 1,254
Nebraska 1,249
Wisconsin 1,240
Kansas 1,238
Wyoming 1,234
Utah 1,229
Mississippi 1,223
South Dakota 1,214
Iowa 1,211
Minnesota 1,210
Montana 1,205
Louisiana 1,195
States by spending on education
District of Columbia $31,629
New York $30,012
Connecticut $25,801
Hawaii $23,878
New Hampshire $22,978
Massachusetts $22,947
Delaware $22,201
Rhode Island $22,110
Pennsylvania $21,091
I do not give a schiff what the credentials of a teacher are.
What I carfe about is results – particularly results that are achieved economically.
You ranted about who schools were hiring to teach.
ALWAYS you fixate on credentials not what is accomplished.
If you are a teacher in the top 10 most expensive per student YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED – not ONE of these states is producing students with average SAT’s over 1200,
If you are in the states that are producing students with average high SATs – you should be proud – not one of these states is in the top 10 most expensive states in the country.
You could almost argue that this system is suicidal. The solutions to their problems are right in front of them but they fail to see. This seems to have gone past all rationality. This is a self destructive philosophy that can only result in the death of the system. That is sad to see such noteworthy universities hazard their very existence. Coupled with the flight of capital, pace setting companies, innovation, individual of high accomplishment, and tax revenue things look bleak. It’s like watching a massive trainwreck in slow motion with no chance of prevention.
The solutions? So, you know the solutions (which you don’t state) and you say USC, an institution with unlimited brain power (thousands of Phds) and millions in revenues, can’t? You’re full of shite.
*. GEB, when you were working as an MD did you have non-English speaking patients? If yes, did you then seek a bilingual person from your waiting room to translate? Did you employ bilingual assistants, secretaries, file clerks? Perhaps you had pictures to aid in examination?
I suspect that California is not interested in changing its braggadocio/announcement of a “balanced budget” –or losing federal grant money– by creating ‘barriers’ for prospective students at all levels:
“The Department of Education provides grants to assist schools, college, and non-profit organizations to expand educational opportunities for, and improve the attainment of..[special population] students.” (California receives double-digit $ Billions each year from the U.S. Dept of Education)
“Grants for Special Populations – U.S. Department of Education
Grants for Migrant Students
Learn about discretionary grants that support efforts to develop and strengthen educational services, and improve outcomes, for migratory students and their families.
Grants for Hispanic Students
The Department of Education sponsors a range of grant programs aimed at special populations, including several aimed specifically at students of Hispanic descent.
Economically Disadvantaged Students
Learn about discretionary grants that support students experiencing unique
Learn more about discretionary grants that aim to improve education outcomes for under-represented groups and other special populations.
“U.S. Department of Education Grants for Special Populations”
https://www.ed.gov › grants-and-programs › grants-special-populations
https://www.ed.gov/grants-and-programs/grants-special-populations
California’s balanced budget is reportedly $20B short according to various bipartisan sources. If Newsom’s lip are moving he’s lying.
And yet you don’t cite said sources. California’’s state budget says different.
Reports regarding California’s budget being “$20B short” typically refer to two distinct multi-billion-dollar figures highlighted by fiscal analysts: structural multi-year budget shortfalls and the state’s outstanding federal unemployment insurance deb
*. Money this or that at outrageous cost. Self motivated people learn what’s needed. The unmotivated are detrimental.
Divestment, Equivocation, and Inanities is not a viable Choice… uh, choice. It is a “burden” conceived of equity and infusion entertained with liberal license under Critical Diversity Theory. Abort, sequester, and progress no further.
The best student get better with much competition. They need other great students to get even better. Seeding the classrooms with less does not help this ancient well understood process.
Whaaaaaat? Thank goodness the Illuminati in Cali Higher (or is that Dumber) Ed have recognized that testing is a Colonialist, Supremacist, Racist, Misogynist method to keep the PURELY STUPID from rising through the ranks of Society and leading the rest of the low IQ Sheeple to the cliff of Nirvana. The PURELY STUPID demand equity when it comes to burning taxpayer funding (low and no cost tuition for them) for their no-benefit-to-society education and so they can open their own LEARING CENTER IN MINNESOTA!!! Bah haha. Go STUPID Go!!!!
I’d like to see standardized testing both before and after college so we could see if the students learned anything for the money spent. If I was someone hiring college graduates I might require it.
I’m sure everyone observed the results of testing when students were required to test in person. The failure rate was better than 60%, this included all students, DEI just compounds the problem.
Like it or not, colleges/universities are businesses. A business is not going to turn away a customer because they are too dumb. And gone are the days when graduating from a “good” school matters.
If they are businesses then taxpayers shouldn’t be subsidizing them. We have now produced a generation of idiots, they can’t write a complete sentence, they know nothing of our history and think we’re all equal…we are not.
Thinking we’re all equal, however erroneous, is a fairly trivial matter compared with what else they believe: that de ebbil whyte debbil must be punished in all matters great and small, from here to eternity. Our MSM and institutions have been hammering this into their heads since birth. Well you certainly don’t want a racist baby do you?
If they aren’t a business… no subsidizing? What an utterly stupid comment. Bet you couldn’t get into kindergarten. You brainless twat.
Oh, look everyone! The Nozzle squirts forth…
I bet you got into kindergarten alright but I also wager that you never got out. Now go lay down on your mat, it’s nappy time.
BillyG, you raise an important point that has influenced university and particularly state university admissions for a long time. Incoming freshmen do not consume as many resources as do seniors. So for the freshmen the more the merrier because they will eventually drop out but the university will be the financial beneficiary as it will have received more fees than expended cost. Another business aspect is the desire to attract foreigners – who pay full freight and thus lower the cost for other students (or tax payers). Finally, in state universities, their clients are the voters. So the state university system is constrained in deselecting too many of its citizen’s children.
Is “business” considerations a factor for California? I doubt that we will get a straight answer.
Doing away with standardized testing was based on the same false premise as affirmative action– striving for equality rather than equal opportunity. If equality is the goal, then in any selection based endeavor, whether it is high school test scores, college admissions or employment, the result will be, as hullbobby says, dumbing down. And as just one example, the consequence of the failure of so many school systems to teach basic skills necessary for critical thinking is being seen in real time as something as insidious to America as Democratic Socialists are being elected to high political office. Any person with a passing familiarity with our government knows that our system of checks and balances is what stands in the way of the tyranny of the majority. If we had the “pure democracy” that the DSA party wants– no Senate, no independent Supreme Court but instead one appointed to limited terms by the House of Representatives, no electoral college thereby handing total control of the country to the whims of a handful of large states, our country would have long ago failed or been pushed into another civil war. But the label “progressive” and empty slogans sound good to an ignorant mind and so Democratic Socialists are being elected by the very people who will lose the most. Think of just one part of our society– civil rights– and try to imagine where we would be today but for our independent Supreme Court. Great societies historically have rotted from within. It seems clear we are following that course. Hopefully it is not too late.
Quote: “consequence of the failure of so many school systems to teach basic skills necessary..”
*Advocatus diaboli* In fairness, we should probably keep in mind that the raw materials teachers have to contend with has been in free fall for decades now.. The quality of students, I mean.
Equity in lieu of equality.
California is proving itself an existential threat to the USA. They allow their cities and hillsides to burn to the ground due to climate hysteria, they allow drugs to permeate their cities, they give illegals CDL’s who then drive the country killing people, they let illegals vote, they don’t teach their K-12 students academics only orthodoxies, only the rich liberals can afford to live in their cities while the middle class has to commute ridiculous distance to work, and they now ruin what were previously strong educational institutions by issuing worthless degrees and miseducating the youth.
The decision to stop using tests was entirely political and based on no rational or scientific analysis. It was an ignorant policy and, on the alter of liberalism, they will continue the insanity harming their kids and our country.
CA is giving students what they want: the diploma they (you) paid for, even if they are not up to snuff.
The University system sold it’s rep long ago so it’s doesn’t matter anymore and they had to do something to bring in students (other than, you know, educating them).
It’s become like an amusement park system. The political benefits of a fresh batch of dummies is all the left needs.
VG comment. Gold star for you anon.
Just so I’m clear, the vast majority of Universities tried something – studied the impacts of their decisions – saw that their decision didn’t work, and then reversed course. Isn’t that what we want of every major system? Try new things – assess the impacts of the change and adapt accordingly. The University of California will ultimately make correctional changes to meet the standards of their competition. So, your entire point of this post is what, An “I told you so?” and to rage bait against higher education? I think Turley readers would be well to remember that the Professor is literally immersed in higher education at a very elite school. By all means – criticze the system – but also give credit where credit is due, Professor.
You either didn’t read the article or aren’t understanding the situation (are you from Cali?). They tried Test Blind – which ALL 51 members of the academic board voted against- and now know the disastrous results of their “test” but are still driven by politics, not science or rationality. That’s why California has been ruined. They are illogical.
Ever think maybe this exact sort of critique right here is the impetus for those correctional changes you so desire?
Credit for poor decisions masked as honorable reverse course? That might work in higher education but in the real world it can get you fired>homeless>hungry>mom’s basement>sad.
Critique of a messed up system is not rage bait, it just pisses YOU off.
The result of doing away with standardized testing was predictable. making a decision that you know is gonna be detrimental The quality of education in colleges is simply idiotic.
It’s on the same level of allowing someone to drive a car after they have consumed a fifth of whiskey. We all know what the outcome is going to be. Intelligent people choose not to make such decisions.
Professor Turley is simply pointing out the stupidity of the experiment. The board and faculty should have known that their experiment would end badly for the schools and the students themselves.
“a very elite school”
Huh? I thought he taught at GWU law school. Does he have a new appointment somewhere?
The élite law schools are pretty much woke factories so I don’t know which one would hire him.
“. . . studied the impacts of their decisions – saw that their decision didn’t work, and then reversed course.”
Your formula is missing the most important element: the final end.
End all Federal Aid to cities, states, non-profits and colleges
Outlaw Public Unions
Lets watch Democrat states FAIL!
Careful – that would directly impact Professor Turley’s employer – George Washington University – who receives tens of millions of dollars in federal grant dollars. Further – about 15% of the GW undergrads use federal loan programs to be able to go to school there.
I do not think JT agrees to just waste money at GW with any old federal grant-loan-theft just because.
They got rid of standardized testing for the same reason they are getting rid of AP classes…they are dumbing down the system to the lowest common denominator.
Watch as Mr. Anonymous comes along to comment thereby proving how bad our education system has gotten.
X will be the one who’s momma will bring his oatmeal down to the basement while he pontificates on the subject.
You’re a living example of US education system. Bet you don’t have a college degree. Its obvious.