Prominent journalist and radio host Uri Orbach has a curious sense of outrage. In a column, Orbach describes the outcry after the release of a recent picture of a handcuffed Palestinian being shot by an 
Israeli soldier with a rubber bullet at close range. Instead of decrying the need for better training or calling for justice, however, Orbach is infuriated that Palestinians have been given cameras to allow them to record such abuses.
The shooting incident was captured by a camera and the image later given to media.For the shooting story, click here.
Orbach accuses the organization B’Tselem of “collaboration with the enemy” because it handed out 100 cameras to Palestinians to record any abuses. The “armed with a camera” campaign was designed to allow a non-violent form of activism and to increase transparency of conditions in the area. For their website, click here.
Sorry, but I’m disgusted by that. The fact that Jews are trying to catch the soldiers of their own country doing bad things by handing out cameras to our enemies is intolerable. After for years now leftist Israeli politicians have failed to convince us during elections that we can make true peace with our friendly neighbors, now they just try to smear us; to show us, and to show everybody, how terrible we are.
There are obviously many (including the publishers) who believe that this is a legitimate point and that the real problem is the camera itself. Obviously, there are many in Israel who must be appalled by such views, but I have not been able to find widespread condemnation of Orbach among right-wing publications and conservative party officials. It is a chilling glimpse into the extremist views of some in this region.
For the full column, click here.
The simple response is if you are worried about the enemy taking pictures of your soldiers doing things that they shouldn’t do, just enforce the rules and make sure the soldiers are following them. The cameras didn’t shoot the prisoner in the video, the soldier did. This is Fox news mentality at play here. After going through this kind of twisted and immoral logic for almost 8 years, I have very little patience for it.
Ya know, why post this garbage? The guy in handcuffs was shot in the TOE with a rubber bullet after being ordered a number of times to stop resisting his being taken into custody for endangering Israeli soldiers BY THROWING ROCKS AT THEM!
GOD BLESS THE ISRAELI SOLDIERS and the patience they have shown with the terrorists intent on murdering Israeli women & children.
Most certainly GOD is most satisfied with the patience they have shown towards those that would kill them and the fact they are not lashing back with the powerful weapons they have that could turn their enemie’s lands to glass……………..
GOD BLESS ‘em.
It’s raving lunatics like those above that make every country from the USSR and China to North Korea and Iran NEED nuclear weapons. Israel and the US NEED to be checked. After all, the US is the only country to have ever used a nuclear weapon. I hope Egypt and Iraq, Syria, Lebanon… decide they want a nuclear program too.
Also, I agree with the whackjob that Palestinians should stop throwing stones, it’s disrespectful. Get automatic weapons, force is the only thing that Israel understands.
zakimar: yup America used a nuke on a nation that attacked us for no reason with no warning, and we will do it again if the same situation arises.
zakimar: those that mess with God’s gift of freedom and democracy to the world, the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, will suffer under God’s sword.
zakimar: urging palestinians to use automatic rifles on Israelis will only mean Palestine will cease to exist. God protects it.
God protects Israel.
God protects the United States.
“zakimar: yup America used a nuke on a nation that attacked us for no reason with no warning, and we will do it again if the same situation arises.”
All the more incentive for countries like Iraq and Iran to get nuclear weapons. So I guess you feel that any nation that attacks another for no reason deserves to get nuked. No wonder you and the US government are so afraid of others having nukes.
And btw, tell all the blacks that were slaves and helped build America about freedom and democracy. Most of the “founding fathers” also raped their slaves. I guess God loves slave masters and rapists too.
The US was founded on the genocide of the indigenous people, slavery and Apartheid.
Israel was founded on the murder and oppression of the indigenous people and Apartheid, so Israel is a little better than the US.
You’re in great company.
marth h,
You have gone to the extreme this time. You are calling upon God to protect only the United States and Israel. I thought God protects us all? At least that is what the good Nuns taught us in grade school. The Nuns couldn’t have lied to me, could they? And then after extolling God to protect us you warn zakimar that we attacked a sovreign country before and we will do it again to protect Israel. I thought God was going to protect Israel?? Make up your mind.
Next you claim that it was no big deal he was only shot in the toe. It sounds like you are volunteering to be shot in the toe. Kind of like the neocons and the wannabees claiming that waterboarding isn’t torture. But, after Hitchens, one of your own, had himself waterboarded, he changed his tune and admitted that it was torture.
Why don’t you take your hate somewhere else where it is wanted, like a Fox News site.
rafflaw
1, July 27, 2008 at 1:23 pm
marth h,
You have gone to the extreme this time. You are calling upon God to protect only the United States and Israel
Its a sad thing raff, and its something most people won’t admit, but you’ve hit the nail on the head. See, in “Evangelical” Christianity, (I know, kind of opposing values, ay?) these new holy rollers, are convinced that at the “end of times” it will be all war.
And that war will be the United States, and Israel, against the rest of the nations of the world.
They do this by misinterpreting allagorical scriptures and interjecting modern interpretations to statements that were directed or about ancient events.
So to them, Israel and the US against the rest of the world, is not only ok, but its how its supposed to be.
It does clearly identify Martha however, as one of the “family” so to speak.
Picture Donald Sutherland, standing on the steps of a building, slack jawed emitting a high pitched whine, while pointing a bony finger in your direction.
Thats Martha.
And you sir are NOT “of the body”.
Don’t worry good people. I don’t think that most Presidents who have protected Israel were doing so because they were waiting for the Second Coming – Bush is an exceptional loon who speaks directly with Jesus (who tells him to kill people). McCain isn’t as loony about the Second Coming and neither is Obama, however they’re both in bed with Israel not because they need the 6 million US Jews to vote for them (Leiberman couldn’t even get Jews to vote for him in Florida) and there are more Muslims in the US than Jews, but they are afraid of the negative media coverage they would get from the Zionist Jew controlled media.
Look at what happen to Obama when one Jewish magazine, the New Yorker ran that racist and bigoted “satirical” cover. Now remember Rupert Murdoch and Bloomberg are also Zionist Jews and they own a great deal of the US media. Some of Murdoch’s media holdings include: the Weekly Standard, the New York Post, Fox News, 20th Century Fox, MySpace, HarperCollins, and over 175 media outlets. CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, and shows like 60 Minutes are also owned or run by Zionist Jews.
So it’s not that most candidates, Presidents and other politician like Israel or Jews, they fear the media. So be thankful, you are electing cowards, not religious zealots.
Last week English Prime Minister Brown told Israel to curb the expansion of settlements, and that their provocation of the Palestine people needs to end now.
England clearly has had enough of kowtowing to the unreasonable expansion and violent persecution of the Palestinian people, and is going to start taking methods to reign in Israel so that true peace in the middle east can be had.
I imagine Obama once he takes office in Jan, will follow suit.
The real irony here of course, is Israel should know better.
Having suffered at the hands of the Nazi’s in such a horrible manner, one would think would make them as far from that mentality as possible.
Yet here they are, armbands and all, torturing a helpless victim.
Countless British PMs and US Presidents have been calling on a halt to settlements, yet money keep flowing to Israel to build more settlements. The talk is to pacify Muslims and Arabs in their countries, the money is to keep the Zionist Jews giving back some of that money in campaign contributions and positive media coverage.
I don’t blame the Israelis, they are doing whatever they can get away with. Most child molesters were also molested as children, so if “holocaust survivors” didn’t create new “concentration camps and “death squads”, that would be really surprising.
And as for Obama, in his first speech after becoming the Democrat nominee, he told AIPAC (a Zionist Jew organization) that the bill to get Israel their annual $3 000 000 000 was already underway – with any preconditions.
Thats it Zak.
Take every possible glimmer of hope, and try and squash it under your boot.
Keep using terms like “Zionist Jew”, and perpetuate the hate.
What would wars do without guys like you to cheer them on?
Wasn’t that our own Government’s response to Abu Garab? Take away the cameras, problem vanished!
I’m very pro-Israel but the discussion here is getting unhinged. The soldiers in question need to be disciplined for their outrageous behavior. That said, this stray incident should not be used to tarnish the IDF’s image. Israel has one of the most moral armies in the world and has often risked casualties to its own troops to minimize those of civilians. Similarly, controversy over Israel’s use of cluster bombs and “disproportionate force” also needs to be studied in context. There is a great paper discussing the latter here: http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/perspectives20.pdf.
JT, you’re absolutely correct in saying that it’s the actor’s fault and not the camera’s and that the outrage is misplaced. The problem is that these videos are invariably shown out of context and even when we manage to disprove what it purports to be showing (e.g., a scene is staged, Hamas deliberately sends civilians into the line of fire etc.) the damage is done and media outlets are reluctant to print retractions. I also question the motives of B’tzelem and other such groups. I think many of them are self-hating Jews and that more than a zeal to defend human rights is at play.
I and most Israelis share following sentiment:
“What we hold against Nasser is not only the killing of our sons, but forcing them for the sake of Israel’s survival, to kill others.
-Golda Meir
Butters
1, July 27, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Israel has one of the most moral armies in the world and has often risked casualties to its own troops to minimize those of civilians
Are you trying to kid me, or yourself?
Israel, has exposed its heart, as being as black and cruel as the heart of Germany when it unleashed its war crimes on the Jews.
Endless accounts day after day in video and eyewitness accounts of unspeakable attrocities commited by the holy sanctimonious Israeli army against the Palestinians.
Armed incursions into civillian areas, attacks and bombing campaigns against civilian populations, beating and verified torturing of helpless prisoners, rape and murder of captives, and on and on…
Of course, given current U.S. Conservative standards, they’re merely complying with our own new policies for conducting “modern warfare”.
“The pattern of attacks during the Israeli offensive in Lebanon suggests that the failures [to distinguish between combatants and civilians] cannot be explained or dismissed as mere accidents,”
“The extent of the pattern and seriousness of the consequences indicate the commission of war crimes.”
Human Rights Watch
When the Israeli people climb off their sanctimonious high towers, and start LOOKING at what they are doing to OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, and the Palestinians learn to do likewise, then this STUPID, STUPID war will end.
Until then, both sides can keep making a lot of little coffins, for their kids.
Because thats all you’ve got to hand to your children, you studid, stupid, STUPID mutherf#kers.
In fact, why don’t you guys stop pussyfooting around here, and get it over with?
I mean you want nothing but war anyway. So go for it. We’ll give Palestine some nukes, then you can both launch simultaneously, and wipe each others stupid, stupid asses off the face of the planet.
Hell, take Iran with you. Well just get China to speed up their enrichment program, load it up in the mid range missles they’ve already sold them, and let em fly. You can all go out in a blaze of self gratuituous pious glory for all I care. Or for all half this country cares for that matter.
Because I’m sick of your tit for tat little wimpy mans war. You want a war, get on with then chickensh$ts. Blow each other to kingdom frackin come for all I care, or whereever the hell kingdom it is you’re trying to build.
A kingdom obviously that you cannot find within the love of your own families, the richness of life, careers, education and the fellowship of community. So please, by all means, do us all a freaking favor, and blow yourselves to whatever freaking kingdom it is you are trying to find.
And take Zakimar with you.
Or, you can try growing up now, and giving the babies you constantly keep making and then slaughtering, a glint of a decent future, and a life. One that includes breathing, eating and not having bombs fall on their heads in school, or being blown up at a goddamned sidewalk cafe by an idiot with a body bomb.
Try growing up, and laying down the goddamned guns.
And if you just cannot find the wherewithall to do that, then just launch the big ones and make a wasteland out of your holyland and be done with it.
Cause I’m sick of you all, and sick of Americans dying over your pitiful inability to just grow the f$#k up.
“What we hold against Nasser is not only the killing of our sons, but forcing them for the sake of Israel’s survival, to kill others.”
-Golda Meir
The only ones forcing your sons to kill others is your sons parents.
If someone states that they are very pro-Israel, they should qualify that statement. Are you a Zionist Jew that feel Jews deserve a “homeland” regardless of the suffering it’s causing? Are you a Christian that believes Jesus cannot come back to Earth unless Jews are controlling that real estate? Are you a citizen of another country that feels if there was no Israel they would have to put up with more of them in your own country? Are you a person that admired the Gestapo and missed them so much you need daily reenactments? Do you hate Arab Muslims and Christians and enjoy watching people persecuted? Please let us know.
The Palestinians have been hoping for 60 years, I don’t think it’s me that’s “squashing” it. As for defending “Zionist Jews”, I suppose you have something good to say about South African Apartheid or genocide in general.
If you are sick of Americans dying, do two things: don’t elect moron, fanatic fundamentalist religious leaders (at least no Ayatollah has ever said God spoke to him personally); and lobby your cowardly, corrupt, inept Government to stop giving Israel $3 000 000 000 per year in welfare and weapons, while American soldiers make $15 000/year, Katrina victims are still living on the street, 1/6 of Americans have no health care and children are going to school hungry because there is no money for school lunch programs. Without the US, the situation there would take care of itself in less than 6 months, and in fact would have been settled in 1967.
So please stop your whining but continue bashing your head against the wall, it’ll all be over soon.
zakimar
1, July 27, 2008 at 8:14 pm
The Palestinians have been hoping for 60 years
No Zak, what the Palestinians have been doing for the last 60 years is walking into market places and blowing apart the bodies of a bunch of teenagers having lunch.
Thats what the Palestinians have been doing.
And when they STOP doing that then maybe the world community will be able to get behind them.
When you can get together, and form a real government, one that has CONTROL over your military, then you’ll have something to say.
And yes, we need to get a control on our govt.
No doubt.
We’re working on that.
When you guys gonna start?
From one of my other postings, for those who couldn’t be bothered to educate themselves before they gave their nonsense as fact.
For those that either believe the Zionist propaganda or just want to spread it, a breif history of PALESTINE:
1895
The total population of Palestine was 500,000 of whom 47,000 were Jews who owned 0.5% of the land.
1896
Following the appearance of anti-Semitism in Europe, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism tried to find a political solution for the problem in his book, ‘The Jewish State’. He advocated the creation of a Jewish state in Argentina or Palestine.
1897
The first Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland, which issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine and the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO).
1904
Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.
1906
The Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.
1914
With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany.
1916
Britain and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France, Jordan and Iraq to Britain and Palestine was to be internationalized.
1917
Lord Balfour, the British Foreign Secretary sent a letter to the Zionist leader Lord Rothschild which later became known as “The Balfour declaration”. He stated that Britain would use its best endeavors to facilitate the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. At that time the population of Palestine was 700,000 of which 574,000 were Muslims, 74,000 were Christian, and 56,000 were Jews.
1919
The Palestinians convened their first National Conference and expressed their opposition to the Balfour Declaration.
1920
The San Remo Conference granted Britain a mandate over Palestine and two years later Palestine was effectively under British administration, and Sir Herbert Samuel, a declared Zionist, was sent as Britain’s first High Commissioner to Palestine.
1922
The Council of the League of Nations issued a Mandate for Palestine. The Mandate was in favor of the establishment for the Jewish people a homeland in Palestine.
1936
The Palestinians held a six-month General Strike to protest against the confiscation of land and Jewish immigration.
1939
The British government published a new White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians. The aim was to drive them both out of Palestine and to pave the way for the establishment of the Zionist state.
1947
The United Nations approved the partition under which the Palestinian Arabs, who accounted for 70% of the population and owned 92% of the land, were allocated 47% of the country. (UN resolution 181)
1948
British forces withdrew from Palestine in May and the Zionists proclaimed the state of Israel without defining its borders. Arab armies moved to defend the Palestinians.
1949
A cease fire was finally agreed. The Zionists controlled 77% of Palestinian land and over 1 million Palestinians were forced to leave their country. The West Bank was put under Jordanian control and the Gaza Strip under Egyptian control.
___________________________________________
So as you can see, the Zionist Jews brought terrorism to Palestine and the general strikes, objections and hope for Britain, the US and the UN to help has done nothing. If ignorance is bliss, you should be the happiest guy on the planet.
Zakimar you read, but you don’t listen. I don’t need to be “educated” by you on the facts about Israels attrocities any more than I need to be educated on the facts of the Palestinian attrocities.
You are a perfect example of the problem. With your “Zionist Jews” this and “Zionist Jews” that, never bother to look at your own words, or mine.
You are giving me exactly what I am sick of. Your “tit for tat” bullshit.
You don’t like Israel? Fine. Then be a man, put on a uniform, rally your army and go meet them in f#$king battle.
But don’t sit here crying about a the things they’ve done to your people while leaving out the things your people did to instigate it.
You’re both children crying about each others faults and ignoring your own. And when you don’t ignore your own faults you whitewash them.
And what really sucks, is you both keep churning out young ones and pushing them into the meatgrinder. If you were half the adult you try and sound like you’d try and stop the fighting now, and put aside your stupid childish hate of each other and get on with it.
Ok, so your folks on both sides were f$#ked up people, and couldn’t live next door to someone without blowing them up. Ok. That was then. This is now. You don’t have to kill. Neither do they. All you have to do is stop this tit for tat retaliation bullsh$t.
And if you can’t, then man up, suit up, and fly your colors bravely into battle like any army would, and settle the matter for good.
You like Star Trek Zakimar? You sound like you’re fairly well Americanized so I’ll assume you’ve seen it. Know the series “Voyager”?
In Voyager there was an episode where the captain “(Red from that 70′s show) of a great ship that could cause “temporal incursions” which would change events in time, and he was using the ship to try and “right a wrong that had occured.
Well, the problem was, each time he caused a temporal incursion to change one event, to correct one thing in the chain of events, he created a new problem. A new event, so he could never perfectly right the wrong. And along the way, he wiped out civilization after civilization.
Your problem is similar. You’re like two squabbling children, striking each other back and forth so many times, that you spend most of your time trying to figure out who did what to who. The only thing you can do at this time, is shake hands, and figure out something that doesn’t involve religious leaders. Religious leadership of government is invariably hot headed, and corrupt. It never focuses on the needs of the people but instead in some perceived spiritual goal.
Fighting over the holy land it would seem, to an outsider, to be the most ridiculous thing to be fighting over. Whichever god you believe in, he surely never wanted this.
I get tired of these wars and constant battles between peoples of different religions. Whether it is the Catholics and the Protestants battling in Northern Ireland or the Jews and various Muslim sects battling in the Middle East, it still comes down to religion. How many people have been killed over religion in recent history? If you go even further back in history to the Crusades the numbers go up even farther. Is there a way to take religion out of the mix? That is a tough question and I do not have the answer to it. I do know that an answer was found in the Northern Ireland debacle and I would hope that reasonable people on both sides in the Middle East will put religion aside and “convince” their respective political leaders to not only find an equitable answer and that if they do not stick to the agreement that an immediate recall of that government should occur. That would mean no settlements on the Israeli side and no attacks from the Palestinian side. Maybe the U.N. needs to be included in the mix with a peace keeping contingent. The key will be to put aside the religous issues on both sides and find an agreement that will be enforced by a neutral party. I do not think anything else wiil work. Once the right wings on both sides get involved, it only means more death and destruction. Peace will not happen during the regime of that famous end of timer, George W. Bush or John McCain and his good buddy, Rev. Hagee who is another famous end of timer. It will only happen with a U.S. President who is respected by both sides. It will only happen with a U.S. President who is willing to utilize the U.N. to act as a buffer force. No approach is perfect and will require hard work by a President who is willing to put his guns and threats in a “lock box”. I wonder who that President could be?
Amen Rafflaw.
Amen.
I have read everyone’s opinion and find most pretty interesting. I am amused however that from the time the original Palestinians settled that area until now EVERY empire that existed has disappeared, from the Egyptian and Byzantine to the British and Soviet. Yet somehow many people think that the US will remain at its current status forever.
I did a little research and more than half of Israel’s per capita income (about $15 000 per Israeli) comes from US welfare – $3 000 000 000 per year. That puts Israel’s PCI at about the same level as Greece or New Zealand, without it, Israel would be at the level of Botswana or Chile. That said, when the US becomes unwilling or more likely unable to support Israel, a lot of people will be looking to “resettle” the Jews so that the Palestinians can go back to where they were living before 1947.
There are about 5.5 million Jews in Israel and 6 million in the US and about 2 million in the rest of the world. There are about 1.5 billion Muslims in the world that don’t like the way the Palestinians have and are being treated. Unfortunately most Christians don’t care about the Christian Palestinians so it will be up to the Muslims to help them too. So there are about 115 Muslims to every Jew. And since Israel has gone out of its way to treat the Palestinians brutally, there won’t be too much compassion when it’s time for the “resettlement”.
So in the meantime, it’s great that Israeli Jews, American Jews and the US Government is wasting BILLIONS of dollars renting Palestine but one day the landlord is going to come with an eviction notice. I just hope I’ll be around to see it.
Before the whiners make any more comments about me being an anti-Semite or hating Israel:
I have not made ANY “hateful” comments about the “Jewish people”. I have pointed out the hateful things SOME Jews do and I make no apologies for hating Zionists. Zionism is Apartheid which is Racism and should be hated by all decent people. No person is better than any other and should be given special rights in this life or the next solely based on their race.
Unfortunately, some races, religions and groups believe in hate and Zionists belong to this group. I am not surprised that many Americans and the US Government sees nothing wrong with Zionism because many Americans have no regard for their own indigenous people (that’s Injins to those that don’t know what indigenous is), didn’t oppose Apartheid in South Africa and until a few months ago had Nelson Mandela on their terrorist list for decades.
BTW, if the US didn’t prop up dictators like the Shah, Mubarak, Musharif, Saddam Hussein, Bush Sr’s buddies the Kuwaitis, Bush Jr’s buddies the Saudis and let’s not forget bin Laden, maybe the people would have a better chance of creating their own “regime change”.
Zakimar said.
I have not made ANY “hateful” comments about the “Jewish people”.
Hell as far as I can tell you’ve made nothing but.
“Zionist Jews” this and “Zionist Jews” that.
I thought you were Yassar Arrafat for a minute there.
Jews are a group of human beings with many different points of view.
Zionists are racists and ALL have the SAME racist/bigoted, hate filled, narrow, moronic point of view. My guess is that you’re one of the latter and simply think all Jews feel the same way you do.
zakimar
1, July 28, 2008 at 1:14 pm
My guess is that you’re one of the latter and simply think all Jews feel the same way you do
So thats why I’ve been condeming the violence of the Israeli’s equally, if not more than the Palestinians?
You should consider a course in deductive reasoning there Yassar.
Pick up a book – it can be found at a liebary and reserch Zionism. Book lernin is impotant b4 u defend somethin.
I suppose you condemned the atrocities on both sides too between: US/Iraq; Serbia/Bosnia; Afrikaners/South Africans; Hutus/Tutsis; Germany/Poland? It is important to be impartial.
DOWN With ZIONISM
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