Marie Houk, a pregnant mother, was found dead by her four-year-old daughter. The killer appears to be the son of her boyfriend who will reportedly face adult murder charges — despite the fact that Jordon Brown is 11 years old. He reportedly went to school after killing Houk in a farmhouse in western Pennsylvania.
The child was charged with one count each of criminal homicide and homicide of an unborn child. In Pennsylvania, anyone over the age of 10 accused of murder or homicide is charged as an adult and can face life in prison.
The boy and his father are living in the farmhouse in Wampum, Pa. 
He appears to have used a youth model 20-gauge shotgun — a gun designed to be used by young children. There are a considerable number of options for kiddie guns. Some sites prefer to call them “small statured shooters.” In states like South Dakota, the trend has been to lower the age to as low as 10 for hunters. Children as low as eight have received gun permits, as discussed in here and here in the United States and England. Some ministers have called on parents substituting video games for gun lessons as a wholesome alternatives.
The idea of treating an 11-year-old as an adult in such case is unfathomable but not uncommon. It remains one of the continuing points of conflict with other Western nations. The Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that states cannot execute murderers under the age of 18 over the objections of many conservative leaders.
What is fascinating is the desire to continue to treat children as adults despite recent research showing that human brains do not fully function until in their late teens. Specifically areas of the brain used to judge risk and make judgments are affected.
It is totally ridiculous to prosecute this child as an adult. But what is also disturbing, is here is another case of death by a firearm in the hands of a child.
A shotgun manufactured to fit the stature of a child? Does anyone else see something wrong with this? The gun manufacturers can’t wait to get the guns in to the hands of the children quick enough, not wanting to wait until they are physically larger, and hopefully, more fully intellectually developed? How intellectually developed could this child’s father be, allowing a child to have free access to his own firearm without appropriate supervision.
They local authorities should prosecute the father for the murder, as an adult.
hunter:
“Now you gun banners are all in a fluff that out of 250,000,000 guns in the United States, 1 10th of 1% of them are used in a crime.”
***********
You go girl! I am in total agreement. Do you know, hunter (sound so macho, you know) these nuts also want to ban nuclear weapons from the planet? Yep, two little incidents in that fureign country of Japan over 50 years ago compared to the thousands and thousands of nukes around,and these nuts think something bad will happen again. Man I’m glad you came along to set them straight, and mouth the logic that has kept the conservative movement right where it belongs.
hunter:
That’s exactly what Truman said. Are you channeling the “Buck Stopper?”
hunter:
Could you teach me how to use that right-click copy function as well as you do? Then I wouldn’t have to think for myself either. Thanks.
How about this for a suggestion.
Some things are just too tragic to be a partisan over, hunter.
It’s not about the gun.
It’s about murder and the competency of an 11 y.o. to stand trial as an adult.
Before you freak out further, I am a strong proponent of the 2nd Amendment. It provides a needed check against government run amok and/or subverted to evil ends from attacking the citizenry. When I was young I had a gun much like the one described here. And I’m just about as liberal as they come. I just hope none of the family gets to read how someone thinks their misery is an excuse to promote an agenda. Shame on you for framing this in terms of left and right. Shame.
They have lost three-fold. They don’t need politics. They need sympathy, understanding and help from as many places as they can get it.
Professor, as strong a proponent of free speech as I am, I had dearly hoped you were going to leave this thread with the comments disabled just so to avoid things like hunter’s ignorance compounding an already tragic situation. I dare say this poor family is in pain unlike any poster here can imagine. No one with a humane bone in their body would suggest otherwise or that dragging politics into this is in anyway appropriate or helpful. This is appalling.
hunter:
Sorry, forgot to tell you that Harry Truman was a guy from Missouri who became President of our country following the death of FDR, and made the decision to drop the …. Oh never mind, Rush will cover everything anyone needs to know on his radio show, and fill you in on just what happened. One suggestion though, don’t call and ask him about drugs. He gets a little cranky.
This is not to call out Hunter, but just to point out that Hunter’s reaction is just kind of a “knee jerk” that one should expect from the gun lobby. No where in my comment did I promote banning the legal ownership and use of firearms.
Just as my comment was considered and written after giving some thought to the issue, those who react with a knee jerk to my stated opinion might better serve themselves if they engaged in some reflective thought and analysis, before pulling the trigger.
Charles,
My grandfather was one of the ones who helped deliver the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. People like you sickened him. Your god is Death. And he’d have spit in your face.
Looks like a couple of low lifes that think using four letter words is cool hang around here.
Real impressive….
I rather doubt if someone coming here and using a four letter word has any credibility about speaking for his “grandfather”.
why don’t you go back to your video games buddha.
Why don’t you mind your own business.
Mr. Turley sure seems to attract a handful of real left wing gooney birds.
buddah, if you are speaking to me, I would be pretty certain that your Grandfather is as ashamed of you as the rest are here.
You didn’t know him. I did. He’d say the same thing you you. So how about you keeping your words out of his mouth since you have zero frame of reference. You aren’t fit to mention him much less speak for him. He was a hero. You’re just a troll.
Buddha, the only thing you probably knew about your grandfather is he was 1,000 times the man you are and now in your puny attempt to build yourself into something worthwhile, you drag your grandfather down to your level.
You have nothing in common with decent human beings do you.
Riiiggghtt. I think it’s self-evident who the decent ones are, so I’ll let the others be the judge of that, troll.
buddha, no doubt you are one of the wack jobs that think firebombing dresden was a “war crime” also. Well even the Germans of today know it wasn’t:
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Still, there was certainly more to the Dresden air raid than a desire to destroy civilian morale, wasn’t there?
Taylor: Certainly. The Dresden attack was directly linked to the conduct of the war elsewhere — in this case on the Eastern Front. In Feb. 1945, Dresden was a major transport and communication hub less than 120 miles from the advancing Russians. The aim of the bombing was quite deliberately to destroy the center of the city, thereby making the movement of German soldiers and civilians impossible.
Nor was Dresden uninvolved in war production:
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The inflated casualty figures have proven quite resistant to academic research. The myth of Dresden as a victim of Allied aggression is one that refuses to go away. How innocent was Dresden really?
Taylor: Dresden was undeniably a beautiful city, a center of the arts and a symbol of all that was great about pre-Nazi German humanism. It was also quite strongly Nazi and a major industrial center. Its light industries, ranging from factories producing typewriters and cigarettes to furniture and candy, had overwhelmingly been converted to war use after 1939. Around 70,000 workers in the city are thought to have been involved in war-related work. Its regional railway directorate was heavily involved in the war effort on the eastern front and also in the transport of prisoners within the concentration camp system. The question therefore is not whether Dresden contained legitimate bombing targets, but whether the method and intensity of the February 1945 bombing was justifiable.
The methodology can certainly be criticized without making it an argument for “war crimes”. The Germans manufactured arms in Dresden, and by their own conduct of the war, made that a permissible target for Allied bombers. The use and intensity of incendiary bombs could certainly be questioned; the resultant firestorm literally sucked the oxygen out of the city and asphyxiated thousands, which Vonnegut saw first-hand.
But the use of incendiary bombs on factories and railheads was not a war crime, nor was particularly controversial during that war, as the Germans had been dropping them on London for years by that point. The Allies had a right to destroy the Nazi war production system, including in Dresden. They had a limited number of options for bombing targets, and the intensity can reasonably be assigned to an accuracy that had eluded the Allies on their night bombing runs for most of the war.
And let’s not forget that at the same time as the Allies raided Dresden, the Germans were launching rocket attacks with only marginal thoughts of accuracy against the British civilian centers. If Hitler had the ability to create a Dresden in London, he would not have hesitated to wreak it.
buddha, “decent” people don’t act 1/100th the way you do so stop thinking of yourself as “decent” when you are not. I pity you.
Do you want a shovel to help with that hole? Naw, you’re doing just fine diggin on your own. So I’ll leave you to it.
Thanks for updating with the mug shot, JT, that really hits home how wrong everything is about this incident, and it begs one to consider, could this not have been prevented?
Big Fella,
Trigger lock. As a kid, my guns were always kept locked unless my father or grandfather unlocked them.
Buddha, yeah, something as simple as a trigger lock, or a locked cabinet or closet, and a big dose of common sense on the part of a parent. Also a parent that might be “tuned in” enough to their child to maybe recognize some problematic behaviors, ahead of time.
As a person who has been trained in the use of firearms, and seen the results, first hand, of firearms used against humans, firearms are something I do not take for granted. The problem with firearms, is those citizens who not only take their second amendment rights for granted, but they allow their passion about those rights to color their judgment, and they seem to take it for granted that every man, woman or child who has access to firearms will exercise, safe, responsible handling and use of firearms.
What a bunch of losers here.
As a kid, my dad kept his firearms in my bedroom on an unlocked gun rack. When I had friends over they would want to see the guns. We would handle them but even at the age of 10 I knew you never loaded them when you were in the field hunting.
Not only that but when I was 12 and we took our firearms training classes, 30 of us stored our guns and shells in our school lockers until the training after school.
you see back then we didn’t have LOSERS like you bunch of whiners that have basked in the glow of sick hollywood movies and sick video games.
You Turley two percenters ARE LOSERS.
For over 200 years parents kept their firearms either in closets, behind doors, in a glass enclosed unlocked gun case or anywhere else in the open in the house. Just in the last 25 years have the NUTS started trouble.
Coincidentally that is the same time sick hollywood movies glorifying murder and sick games glorifying murder have been out.
Maybe losers like the hanger on’s here should spend more time with their kids than posting insane ramblings trying to impress 4 wacko liberals.
Europe’s Liberal Politicians Don’t Pay Their Taxes, Either
The European Union’s internal audit office investigated cheating on expenses by members of the European Parliament and found it is widespread among the liberal factions.
The internal audit office wrote a 92-page report to that effect, but kept it secret. Now the report has been leaked and the Telegraph has the details:
Matthew Elliott, the chief executive of the Taxpayers’ Alliance, said: “Having acquired the report, we felt it was right to publish it so taxpayers across the EU could see the widespread evidence of corruption, dodgy dealing and poor financial controls in the European Parliament. The liberal factions of the parliament were found to have been cheating at the rate of 5 to 1 of the conservative members.
Nearly 80 per cent of transactions that should have been subject to VAT displayed no evidence of either VAT payment or exemption.
In his report, Mr Galvin found that “overpayments” of parliamentary allowances were common, but strangely more common among the liberal members, whose allowances are dished out by the same liberal government agencies.
It does seem, though, that the world’s liberal political class, including ours, is becoming increasingly contemptuous of the rule of law.
Hi letil,
You seem to be knowledgeable on this subject. I’m wondering, could you tell me what Charles Whitman’s favorite game was? Clue, perhaps?
What was Howard Unruh‘s favorite movie?
Was Brenda Ann Spencer’s favorite video game Pong?
letil:
“We would handle them but even at the age of 10 I knew you never loaded them when you were in the field hunting.
Not only that but when I was 12 and we took our firearms training classes, 30 of us stored our guns and shells in our school lockers until the training after school.”
**********
Well you and your buds certainly were winners. When not hunting in the field without ammo, you whiled away your time storing guns and ammo within inches of your classmates and any inconvenient firefighter who might happen by to fight a school fire. This is the essence of social upward mobility, and I applaud you and your merry band. May I ask are you now incarcerated, or has the parole board finally relented?
And I will take you up on your suggestion to spend more time with my kids. Realizing that thought like this exists in the world strengthens my resolve to teach them that not every member of a species evolves at the same rate.
mespo,
“not every member of a species evolves at the same rate.”
I’m thinking some have starting moving backward.
The irony of the band Devo gets better every day.
Jack B:
Wiki has some interesting parallels between Charles Whitman and our buddy “letil.” The article says:
“Whitman’s father had an extensive gun collection and taught all of his sons how to shoot, clean and maintain guns. From an early age, Charles had been exposed to guns and never had any recorded incident of misuse or abuse of gun use.”
I advise your staying away from towers when in Texas and away from “letil” at all times.
Buddha:
You can whip it!
BigFella:
“Thanks for updating with the mug shot, JT, that really hits home how wrong everything is about this incident, and it begs one to consider, could this not have been prevented?”
****************
I am sadly struck by the thought that the photo of the child in this blog entry would seamlessly fit in the entry just below it.
Some people are just born defective and need to be weeded out. its a shame it took the death of the mother and unborn child for that to happen.
roycommi:
“Some people are just born defective and need to be weeded out.”
***************
How’d you translate that so fast from the original German?
Wow!
When are people going to realize that guns and children do not mix well. I am sick and tired of reading about Children killing with any kind of guns, especially guns designed for youngsters. What makes this one even worse is the idea that an 11 year old should be tried as an adult. What good for society will result from trying an 11 year old as if he was 18 years old? Can’t we possibly save an 11 year old with treatment and counseling? If we try him as an adult, aren’t we giving up on this child?
Would you give a 10 or 11 year old a broadsword? A pike? A drivers license? A stick of dynamite? A bottle of rat poison? How did guns get excluded from the list of other dangerous things we don’t let children have. It’s just madness. It’s illogical in any context.
Gun locks were brought up in this thread, and I can’t help but share this video: http://video.security.org/gunlock_alert/gunlock-zev.wmv A must-watch for anyone who thinks gun locks are effective.
FF . . . N?
Unfortunately it is a truism of technology that when you have something engineered by humans another human can find a way around it. And often will just for the hell of it. We are a curious bunch of space monkeys. Hackers anyone?
P.S. What’s up with the nick change?
Buddha said:
“P.S. What’s up with the nick change?”
______________________________________
FFN does *not* equal FFLEO, if that was your question. FFN is someone who posted sometime after I had first posted on this blawg.
Thanks
FFLEO,
Thanks for the clarification. I was indeed wondering if it was really you.
Buddha,
By the way, your avatar is now “jade-like color” enough for my old, tired eyes.
raflaw: “What good for society will result from trying an 11 year old as if he was 18 years old? Can’t we possibly save an 11 year old with treatment and counseling? If we try him as an adult, aren’t we giving up on this child?”
I got a Remington 870 12 gage for my 11th birthday. That didn’t mean I had unfettered access to it and ammunition. Then again I was also taught that you never point the barrel towards anything you’re not prepared to destroy.
In cases like these I think the supervising parents are just as culpable for manslaughter as the child; and as such should stand trial together.
Buddha,
To your first comment: Exactly.
I dont think that guns are the problem, I started my son shooting with a shotgun around 6th grade. We used to go skeet and trap shooting and it is great fun. He took a hunter safety course and I have pounded into his head that he does not point a gun at anything he does not intend to shoot.
I think the real problem is half witted parents who keep ammunition and guns within reach of small children. I have been around some really scary people when it comes to firearm safety, but most people obey the rules of the road and it is generally a safe sport.
I agree with Raf that the kid ought to be counsled but he should pay some sort of penalty if for nothing more than his own mental helath. I can only imagine the problems he is going to have when he figures out what he really did. And as others have said, the father should probably do jail time.
I know this is trite but guns are inanimate objects and can sit on a table loaded for years without going off. A gun needs human will to be effective.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/jordan-brown-killed-fathe_0_n_169355.html
The devil may be, and usually is, in the details. If true, these allegations may change some minds about the proper disposition of the case.
Bunnies!
However i am inclined to agree with Buddah, except on the fact that children over the age of 10 should be treated as adults due to i knew perfectly well everything had a consequence at that age and I’m probably closer to that age then you (no offense just meaning memory gives out over time) and to letil or what ever, dude I’m a teen of this day and age and I’m probably going to havta pay through the nose for your decisions dont say you must have been a good little boy who kept his nose clean even though you played with guns. If you have a gamer tag i think it would be fun to play a round of gears of war 2 because i think your right to a point where people are more paranoid about gun control then ever but thats probably becuase the shows today are the dummest EVER pardon my french but they sir are $h1t.
If every dumb person thinks videogames are to blame for violence well then you then people like that are just dumb very very dumb.
personally i think the father was having an affair with the woman his son killed and i think he killed the home wreaking whore for his mother so the lesson here is maybe woman when they see a man is taken and has kids maybe they shouldnt sleep with him and have a little respect and find a man thats single after all home wreaking sluts deserve to die i agree with the kid all they do is ruin lives and make kids angry and hungry for revenge for there fathers absence so i think that women like that deserve what they get