Minnesota Judge John Rodenberg has ruled in the case of Daniel Hauser, 13. We discussed this case earlier regarding the religious objections that the parents raised to chemotherapy for Daniel’s cancer –even though he has a 90 percent chance of survival with the treatment and little or no change of survival without it.
Daniel has Hodgkin’s lymphoma, which is now considered a highly treatable form of cancer. In his
58-page ruling, Rodenberg found that Daniel has been “medically neglected” and is in need of child protection services. He wrote ” “Brown County (Minnesota) Family services has demonstrated a compelling state interest in the life and welfare of Daniel Hauser sufficient to override the fundamental constitutional rights of both parents and Daniel to the free exercise of religion and the due process right of the parents to direct the religious and other upbringing of the child.”
Daniel opposed the treatment and his court-appointed criticized the ruling, saying
“It marginalizes the decisions that parents face every day in regard to their children’s medical care. It really affirms the role that big government is better at making our decisions for us.”
FUNNY WE CAN’T FIND JUDGES WILLING TO SAVE BABIES IN THE WOMB:
May 15, 2009
More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
Fewer think abortion should be legal “under any circumstances”by
PRINCETON, NJ — A new Gallup Poll, conducted May 7-10, finds 51% of Americans calling themselves “pro-life” on the issue of abortion and 42% “pro-choice.” This is the first time a majority of U.S. adults have identified themselves as pro-life since Gallup began asking this question in 1995.
The new results, obtained from Gallup’s annual Values and Beliefs survey, represent a significant shift from a year ago, when 50% were pro-choice and 44% pro-life. Prior to now, the highest percentage identifying as pro-life was 46%, in both August 2001 and May 2002.
The May 2009 survey documents comparable changes in public views about the legality of abortion. In answer to a question providing three options for the extent to which abortion should be legal, about as many Americans now say the procedure should be illegal in all circumstances (23%) as say it should be legal under any circumstances (22%). This contrasts with the last four years, when Gallup found a strong tilt of public attitudes in favor of unrestricted abortion.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx
I don’t think that this child fully understands the seriousness of this cancer that he has. If you read the article, it says that he is learning disabled and cannot read (I read that here http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/16/teen-family-cannot-refuse-chemo/)
And how is a 13 yr old considered an elder in a church?
I believe that the boy is being misled by his parents and his church. He most likely, will physically fight off the doctors and end up dying from this cancer. And the parents will have no one to blame but themselves.
Bet Turley’s family is impressed with being a guest on a TV show…
with a WTF segment……….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
uh, maybe Turely doesn’t know what the acronym W T F stands for…………
Talk about being on LOW CLASS TV network.
Let me see – the child, who is the patient, doesn’t want the treatment because it would violate his religious beliefs. His parents don’t want the treatment because it would violate their religious beliefs. But the court doesn’t care about that or the 1st Amendment and essentially declares the parents unfit…
So we have an early step towards deciding that religious / philosophical beliefs are grounds for taking children into state custody. Nice.
Georgia college student saves lives with gun; Ohio’s defenseless students targeted by criminals
5/15/09
One of the principle claims made in Diane Sawyer’s rigged campus carry experiment, recently aired on ABC’s 20/20, was that having a gun wouldn’t protect a college student, that ordinary people like college students aren’t trained to handle stress, that they might shoot innocent people, and that the bad guy might take their gun away.
Apparently someone forgot to tell a student in College Park, GA that they were better off without having a gun ready at hand…and at least ten college students say they are alive today because of it.
A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.
Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.
“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.
Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.
“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.
The story says that’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.
The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.
“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.
Lavant was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.
Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.
Police told the media they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.
Meanwhile, back in Ohio, officials at The Ohio State University say that the increasingly high level of street-level crimes – thefts, robberies, assaults and break-ins – in the University District is no coincidence. In fact, criminals are targeting students specifically because they know they’ll be defenseless.
Constitutional rights are not absolute as we all know. I have no right to sacrifice my child in some pagan religious ritual as Jonolan seems to be advocating. Judge Rodenburg seems to me to strike the right balance between preserving the life of a child so deluded by religion and emotionally handicapped by his parents that he cannot think for himself, and protecting the rights of the deluded parents. Who says religious nuts don’t have rights too? Not sure if Daniel made the closing remark or his lawyer, but if Daniel, age 13, really said, “It marginalizes the decisions that parents face every day in regard to their children’s medical care. It really affirms the role that big government is better at making our decisions for us,” now there’s a boy who has to be saved.
mespo, so in wacky mespo world, what happens to parents that actually READ and then DECLINE to sign the releases hospitals & doctors ask for signature on before a procedure on their children. Do they go to jail also? Are we to the point that the state can completely subvert parental decisions?
You can’t have it both ways, oh excuse me, in wacky mespo world YOU CAN!
band aid:
I like your neo-con black and white world where discretion and judgment have no place. It’s either one extreme or the other and every conservative notion is absolute. Pity your world is shrinking (21% still deluded by the last count). It makes a great social experiment in how fast a society can crumble. But wait we’ve already “been there and done that,” I think that prior social experiment was called the Third Reich. Are you guys really going for four?
mespo, funny how 60% of America has consistantly described themselves as CONSERVATIVES while less than 40$ describe themselves as LIBERALS.
I would say the Gallup polls coming out now showing Republicans ahead of Democrats in almost every issue and ahead in generic head to head races means your 21% is MEANINGLESS.
So while conservatives have serveral parties to identify their beliefs with while liberals have basically one – the Democrats (unless of course you want to call the few in number “GREEN” party or Communist party part of your “COALITION” of Democrats.
Less than $40 describes themselves as Liberals?!?! I guess money really does talk!! Wow
TO ALL:
I found this site and it is fantastic. Please take a look at this introduction if you are unaware of it. The site is called WolframAlfa and it is a search engine but something more. It appears to mimic the human brain in data retrieval and the ability to perform complex and abstract organizations of knowledge. It is also a computational engine and for those that like stocks it may be invaluable in determining historical data and extrapolating future trends/outcomes. Here is the web address for a 13 min. introduction by the inventor/developer. It is well worth the 13 minuets.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/screencast/introducingwolframalpha.html
Former Dem:
“I would say the Gallup polls coming out now showing Republicans ahead of Democrats in almost every issue and ahead in generic head to head races means your 21% is MEANINGLESS.”
**************
You guys are 0-7 in House races in jurisdictions you should win by 10 or more points. Should I believe you or my lying eyes?
ba,
I too do not understand why Mr. Olbermann uses that acronym for one of his programs and it is crass. Therefore, I would never watch *that* segment; however, those are Olbermann’s free speech rights and Professor Turley is not generally responsible for what other people say a do in public places or private businesses, except, for example, the general rules he sets for his own public blawg here.
Mespo:
““It marginalizes the decisions that parents face every day in regard to their children’s medical care. It really affirms the role that big government is better at making our decisions for us,” now there’s a boy who has to be saved.”
you aren’t really serious are you? Obviously you want the child to live, I am talking about government being better able to take decisions for us?
I really hope you are not advocating government control, it would be extremely depressing in light of all your posts about individual rights.
Mespo, you are an idiot.
mespo, re: dems winning races the repubs should:
Please tell me what a blue dog Democrat is and why Democrats HAVE BEEN REDUCED to running blue dog candidates in elections if they want to win. Could you also tell me where blue dog alliances are; are they with the nancy pelosi loons that represent you and the half dozen SCREWBALLS HERE or are they with Congressman Tanner:
Tanner is a founding member of the fiscally conservative Democratic Blue Dog Coalition with the goal of representing the right of center and appealing to the mainstream values of the American public. The Blue Dogs are dedicated to a core set of beliefs that transcend partisan politics, including a deep commitment to the financial stability and national security of the United States. Currently there are 51 members of the Blue Dog Coalition. For more information, visit the Blue Dog Web site at http://www.house.gov/ross/BlueDogs/.
There are currently 51 Members of the Blue Dog Coalition:
Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (SD), Co-chair for Administration
Rep. Baron Hill (IN), Co-chair for Policy
Rep. Charlie Melancon (LA), Co-chair for Communications
Rep. Heath Shuler (NC), Whip
Rep. Jason Altmire (PA)
Rep. Mike Arcuri (NY)
Rep. Joe Baca (CA)
Rep. John Barrow (GA)
Rep. Marion Berry (AR)
Rep. Sanford Bishop (GA)
Rep. Dan Boren (OK)
Rep. Leonard Boswell (IA)
Rep. Allen Boyd (FL)
Rep. Bobby Bright (AL)
Rep. Dennis Cardoza (CA)
Rep. Chris Carney (PA)
Rep. Ben Chandler (KY)
Rep. Travis Childers (MS)
Rep. Jim Cooper (TN)
Rep. Jim Costa (CA)
Rep. Henry Cuellar (TX)
Rep. Lincoln Davis (TN)
Rep. Joe Donnelly (IN)
Rep. Brad Ellsworth (IN)
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (AZ)
Rep. Bart Gordon (TN)
Rep. Parker Griffith (AL)
Rep. Jane Harman (CA)
Rep. Tim Holden (PA)
Rep. Frank Kratovil, Jr. (MD)
Rep. Mike McIntyre (NC)
Rep. Jim Marshall (GA)
Rep. Jim Matheson (UT)
Rep. Mike Michaud (ME)
Rep. Walt Minnick (ID)
Rep. Harry Mitchell (AZ)
Rep. Dennis Moore (KS)
Rep. Patrick Murphy (PA)
Rep. Glenn Nye (VA)
Rep. Collin Peterson (MN)
Rep. Earl Pomeroy (ND)
Rep. Mike Ross (AR)
Rep. John Salazar (CO)
Rep. Loretta Sanchez (CA)
Rep. Adam Schiff (CA)
Rep. David Scott (GA)
Rep. Zack Space (OH)
Rep. John Tanner (TN)
Rep. Gene Taylor (MS)
Rep. Mike Thompson (CA)
Rep. Charles Wilson (OH)
Bron98:
What I meant was that if that 13 year old kid came up with those particular words, he is a prodigy and needs saving for all our sakes. I think this is a classic balancing of the interests case as the trial judge determined, and though the equities seem fairly even, the fact that a child is involved tilts the scale in favor of court mandated treatment. Were this an adult, I don’t think we’d be having this discussion. Kids get special protection from crazy parents; adults are stuck with them.
As a self-identified conservative (but not a Republican), I am loathe to impinge in the rights of individuals to practice whatever religion they choose. In this case, however, it seems that this child is not being given a fair shake at the life. His parents, by way of their religious beliefs, are depriving him of the healthcare that could greatly extend his life. Like someone earlier said, it is obvious he doesn’t understand how sick he is, so the child is unable to act in his own self interest. I think the state is right to intervene on the child’s behalf. The state makes judgments in the best interests of children in other areas (custody battles, stuff like that), and I see this situation as no different. Religious belief cannot be a rationale for negligence.
On a side note, I am incredibly puzzled at how some fundamentalist sects of religious groups work. Personally, I am not religious, but it seems to me that if God made man, and man made medicine, did not God create medicine?
Matthew N:
“Religious belief cannot be a rationale for negligence.”
***********
Worse yet it’s becoming a rationale for stupidity among many fundamentalist sects. Note the blood-thirsty outrage among fundy Muslims over a few cartoons or a book that wonders why Mohammad was attracted to a 7 year old girl. In that same vein, how about the apoplectic fundy Catholics outraged that the President of the US will receive an honorary degree and speak at commencement at Notre Dame.
See a pattern?
Fundamentalism = Superstition = Irrational Hated = Oblivion.
The West figured this out about the 18th Century during the Enlightenment (the East got it a lot sooner). Apparently large groups of the religious didn’t get the parchment at all.
Former Dem,
You’ve never asnswered an essential question, although its been asked of you time and again, just when were you a member of the Democratic Party, or even voted for it. I suspect it was in a Galaxy long ago and far away. As to how people describe themselves the best answer is at the polls where our President won overwhelmingly.
“FUNNY WE CAN’T FIND JUDGES WILLING TO SAVE BABIES IN THE WOMB”
Band aid,
What’s funny to me is how the anti-abortion movement doesn’t care for babies after they are born and consistently votes for a party that also doesn’t care for babies or people after birth. It’s also funny that this part controlled all three branches of the Federal Government for six years and didn’t do a damn thing about abortion. It’s hilarious because suckers like you give them your slavish support based on one or two issues, when all they’re really interested in is robbing you blind and taking care of their real base, as G.W. Bush put it: “The haves and have-mores.”
The judge made the right decision and ironically may have spared these parents the lifetime of heartbreak they would have had, when they came to realized that they killed their own son, through their own ignorance.
Matthew,
I’ve often wondered about that as well. Isn’t prayer an intervention? Prayer’s intention is to make the person well. So why not an intervention through the knowledge that god put into the heads of men? Why allow only one form of intervention to god? I’m not religious either, but this behavior doesn’t make sense on it’s own terms. Like others here, I can’t imagine letting a child die.
Spindal writes: “What’s funny to me is how the anti-abortion movement doesn’t care for babies after they are born and consistently votes for a party that also doesn’t care for babies or people after birth.”
What an OLD canard. Conservatives are the ones raising the kids, (proven as) the largest donaters money to charity, the ones willing to secure the nation, the ones supporting one man one woman marriage and normal households, and allowing all to be as great as they personally can without having to support the 50% that want to live off other’s labor.
Go pound it.
“Moscow police violently break up gay pride rally…”
I think Hillary hit the wrong “restart” button again…
Americans are starting to notice Russia was better to their citizens when Bush was breathing down Russian’s back than now when Obama is shaking hands with thug dictators and Hillary is giggling about how wonderful everybody is.
fORMER DEM:
DO you have statistics to back up the claim about money donated to private charities? If so please provide them.
Biden Reveals Classified Information?
According to an account in Newsweek, Biden gave up one of the country’s secrets at another dinner where journalists and politicians make fun of Republicans (and occasionally laugh at each other).
Biden told his dinnermates about the existence of a secret bunker under the Vice President’s Residence at the U.S. Naval Observatory. leanor Clift writes:
Ever wonder about that secure, undisclosed location where Dick Cheney secreted himself after the 9/11 attacks? Joe Biden reveals the bunker-like room is at the Naval Observatory in Washington, where Cheney lived for eight years and which is now home to Biden. The veep related the story to his head-table dinner mates when he filled in for President Obama at the Gridiron Club earlier this year. He said the young naval officer giving him a tour of the residence showed him the hideaway, which is behind a massive steel door secured by an elaborate lock with a narrow connecting hallway lined with shelves filled with communications equipment. The officer explained that when Cheney was in lock down, this was where his most trusted aides were stationed, an image that Biden conveyed in a way that suggested we shouldn’t be surprised that the policies that emerged were off the wall.
This facility and it’s existence was highly classified.
So what was Joe Biden doing talking about it at the Gridiron Dinner and will this disclosure be referred to the Justice Department?
Bron, if you are not aware of the fact that survey after survey shows conservatives donate the most to charity, I guess you aren’t as informed as you think you are.
Here is just one. The General Social Survey shows that people who oppose government income redistribution donate four times as much money each year as do redistribution supporters.
http://www.icnl.org/knowledge/ijnl/vol9iss1/special_2.htm
It appears you are nowhere near as informed as you believe you are and that makes you a typical Obama voter.
Mr. Turley, I can make you a really cool header with a logo on it for the top of your page (absolutely free) if youd like. Contact me at LMR892@MYACTV.NET
Larry
Larry:
I hope JT takes you up on that. I think a face lift for the homepage would be great!!!
Former Dem
Your link you provided indicated nothing about conservatives donating 50% more then non-conservatives.
Here are a few passages directly from the link you provided.
working poor give away at least as large a percentage of their incomes as the rich, and a lot more than the middle class. The charity gap is driven not by economics but by values.
It also says in your link people of faaith give away 50% more then people of no faith. It says nothing in your link about conservatives giving more.
You also failed to mention that when conservatives donate they donate to musems and other places of entertainment. They also donate a large percentage to ivy leauge schools where they expect their children to go. I think in fact over 70% of all donations by conservatives are to the higher end colleges and universites they attended or want their children to attend.
Their donations to the needy are a very small percentage of what high income earners do donate.
It is true conservatives only care about children before they are born.
They make a big stink about forcing teenage moms to have babies and meanwhile when the teenage moms do have babies and when the poor people on welfaredo have babies the conservatives sit back and complain how the 3 and 4 year old kids of teenage mothers and welfare parents will grow up to be scum like their parents generation after generion.
Ah, but stupidity is the folly of the followers.
Mespo72Cubed, Mike Spindell and others you are my champs. Independence is rampant on this list/blawg. I truly appreciate this. Now if you could only enlist the unenlistable.
I wonder what Buddha would do?
For my two cents. If this was a belief that I truly held, would I want government intrusion in my life? If I thought that I was doing what I honestly believed and I was sober and capable of making a decision like this, would I want this type of intrusion. No.
Do I think that government is making correct decision here? I am not sure. Would I want government to tell me what is the proper belief I believe? NO.
Do I think that if my family had not converted because it was not popular, did they do the right thing? I don’t know. Can I be partly Christian or Jewish? Does it matter? There was a time that you were persecuted because you were Jewish or people would not deal with you, or sell you a house.
I do not say this lightly, but I have lost a child. This by his own choice. Am I upset with my exwife? No.
Did she say that she would turn the children against me, if we ever got divorced? Yes. Was I angry at the time for some of the things she did? Yes.
Have I forgiven her? Yes. Does she have to live in her own hell today? I do not know. Do I forgive her? Today I can.
That is all.
jen, ya, better to get rid of the babies in the womb than to expect them to fend for themselves as adults and their mothers and fathers to raise them as a normal family unit until they are of age…..
sheese.
JEN, I guess you MISSED the third to the last paragraph:
“As you probably noticed, the values predicting private charity in America tend to smile on the political right. Conservatives are twice as likely as liberals to attend a house of worship regularly; conservatives are one third as likely as liberals to say the government should “do more” to reduce income inequality; conservatives also have about 40 percent more children than liberals. Furthermore, there is a fringe on today’s political left that goes beyond simple neglect of charity, and openly condemns it, claiming that it lets governments off the hook from having to pay for services. So while there may be nothing inherently charitable about political conservatism, today’s conservatives do outperform liberals on most measures of private giving.”
The bottom line is all you have to do is google conservative charitable rates and you will find plenty of evidence that yes indeed Conservatives donate to charity far in excess of liberals, both in terms of dollars and % of income and/or assets.
Hey Former Dem.
You are forgiven. Sin No more. Go, your faith has sent you free.
There is a hierarchy of constitutional rights here at issue, plus the legal recognition of competancy.
The State’s obligation to protect life and property from others supercede others’ rights to practice their religion.
Thus if a person’s religious beliefs mandate they take a life, or destroy another’s property, then the law’s allegience is to the life or property first, not protection of the religious practice.
In this case, the legal guardians of a person who is not considered legally competant, are making decisions for that person; those decisions are religiously motivated and (arguably) will result in an objectively life threatening circumstance.
The law’s precedence is thus: The incompetant’s (non)desire for medical treatment is advisory but not dispositive, the legal guardians’ religiously based desire to withhold medical treatment for their ward is ordinarily mandatory, except to the extent that that desire will objectively result in loss of life or irreparable significant harm.
So, much like in any child abuse analysis, the state leaves treatment of wards in matters of religion alone – unless those religious decisions will harm the ward. If harm will come from that treatment, then the state says prevention of harm supercedes religious rights.
Don’t feed the trolls
AY,
I can’t answer for Siddhartha, this Buddha would do the following:
I would explain all the relevant factors to the child and then ask him if he wants to live (get treatment) or die (refuse treatment).
It’s his life, not his parents (no matter even if they still retain responsibility for his actions as a minor). This is a life and death issue. HIS life or death. The child is a minor but of age to understand that death is forever. Your life, what you have when you lay down at night on your immediate person and what you wake with, is all one has in this world. The rest is just illusion – including one’s religion of choice. Basic existence is the most very fundamental of human rights. The child, as a successful living being outside the womb, has every right to exist that you or I have. To deprive him of that right without his choice (or at least substantial input) strikes me as manifestly unjust.
Buddha,
That is why I have a qualm with that. You know my situation and frankly I would hate like hell to have to make that choice. But if I had to make that choice this would be a perplexing as pulling the plug or quantity of life or for that fact abortion. I say that this is a personal choice and the state should not be involved. So say that the treatment is unsuccessful then is it quantity of life?
A side note, my parents were in the medical center in Houston as a child they were given an apartment in a hotel. MD Anderson leased space for the children and parents to live at while they were going through an invasive procedure. I remember many a night hearing the groans of children. It had quite an effect on me at the time and it still does. To see children with there head shaved and purple marks on them. I am thankful I an not in that position to have to make that choice. I am tearing as I write this as I can only imagine the hell that these kids went through and the parents.
This is why I said I just don’t know.
Mike Spindell,
I said that in you are very eloquent with your words. I usually read this on my phone as it is easier to keep up. I would look goofier than I already am if I tried to carry my laptop and read at the same time.
I have been told by many that I remind them of the absent minded professor. No racial slur intended but I can drive slower than an Asian when I am in deep thought.
I appreciate the words of wisdom that you espouse and relish your good naturedness on the trolls. Suffer as they must. I appreciate your words of encouragement as well as everyone else’s.
FF LEO,
I thought we should have a Troll Judge us as we know they would slap us all down for disagreeing with them.
Buddha,
I am having fun baiting the baitable. One can only live for this clean clear conscience fun.
I see Patty’s Paranoid, no one attacks her until she does her indignant righteousness flopping. Attacking most without provocation. Blaming men for her lack of self esteem and own flatulence. Blaming others for being on the Blawg as the source of her discomfort and it was a fine list until, so and so came on here and then it is about some imagined or perceived assault against her or or profession or education or her garden or her dog or her. . . the list could go on an on. . . .
It is not about her and a substantial time has been taken away from other issues just because Jill Posts or FF LEO asks her to quite down and she trys and shut him down.
If she has as much education as she claims she would be smarter than this and not even be on here. She would be way, way too good for us.
Mespo727272,
Are you here today? Have not heard near a peep out of you. Now, if I said that to Buddha, he would be down at the booth. You see thats all they have to do in Kansas in the summer time.
Buddha,
Now where exactly did that beef come from by the time it gets to Kansas? Oh yeah it started in Texas. Don’t for get it. You all just got to keep all of them lonely cowboys after the Trail. I think Kansas was the filming of Broken Back Cowboy. Are you lonesome tonight?
Now for your ex nah, kinda like family, If she ain’t good nuff for you, she ain’t good nuff for me. You can’t try and trick me and pawn her off on me.
Disclaimer.
The above was only meant as insulting to Buddha and Buddha alone. If others have read this and are offended, it was at your own risk. Buddha, I was only kiddin. I thin you and I could be great friends outside of this blawg thing. Only if it did not cost too much.
See Patty’s Paranoid,
Bug off worm.
That is telling them Mike S. I was going to comment, but I did not want to get trounced on by anyone.
So how is Florida?
“Buddha,
I am having fun baiting the baitable. One can only live for this clean clear conscience fun.”
AY,
Intentional sadism in any form is not attractive, no matter how much fun it gives someone, except for those mutually consenting adults for who it’s a sexual predilection. We ban the baiting of bears for its’ cruelty, why should the baiting of humans be fun? I’m not getting all self-righteous on you, because I’ve done a bit of baiting myself and have felt that same guilty pleasure. However, after I’ve done it I’ve regretted the acts as being disappointing in that they were beneath the standards that I hold for myself.
I arrived at this site during Bartleby’s hey day and that character was as insidious, as it was insincere. While I think you and Bron are just you and Bron, I understand Patty’s wariness. Her inherent point was that Bartleby held sway because he was taken seriously and treated with courtesy by some on the site, thus perpetuating its’ disruptive presence.
As Buddha implied in an eloquent post on another thread today, this site is an important tool in prosecuting the battle against anti-constitutional behavior and attacks on civil liberties. What the Professor does on TV, in the classroom and in Court are not only acts of truth, but acts of courage. Our support here assists him in his endeavors. Buddha also clearly pleaded for the understanding that part of our function here is to draw people into a discussion of the issues Jonathan raises, to increase the numbers of those who understand the issues and are willing to fight for our liberties. The trolls are aware of this and try their best to disrupt the effort by turning people off to the discussion. We need to not assist them in their work.
AY,
Florida is Texas with better weather and nicer beaches. I prefer NYC but can no longer afford it. Also I seem to be healthier down here.
I must say the best steak I ever had was corn fed Nebraska Beef, at a restaurant named Dreisbach’s in Grand Island, Nebraska. Going cross country in 1975 and having traveled for ten boring hours my ex wife and I stopped at Grand Island, found a motel and went to dinner at this place. As a steak lover and aficionado I thought the best porterhouse I’ve ever had was at Peter Luger’s, in NYC. Dreisbach’s and that corn fed Nebraska beef topped it. We liked it so much that 6 weeks later, on our way back from the Left coast, we stopped at Grand Island again and the steak was just as good. Just googled it and found out the restaurant is still in business.
Mike S.
I was speaking of the trolls, when speaking of baiting the baitable.
Bron, I can assure you I am not. I hope you can see I have my own style of writing, posting or whatever. I have been slammed by Patty C for using periods where I should have used a comma. I know I did point out to her that I am guilty of the same, but that if she is going to look at the gramatics then she must look at her own, as I did read past poster and the Prof is sometimes a slouch as well.
The inaneness of her comments are unmerited in most cases. I read through the blawg of Friday and she was insulting to FF LEO for no reason at all. Just because she disagreed with what he had to say. I think that a lot of people here are unhappy with the tyranny of a few or even one.
It is the self centered justification that we complain of the Bush/Cheney Reicht. Cannot that be seen here as well? We are not in grade school nor are we currying favors of anyone or at least I am not. We have to use our social and moral compass to over come what has become common place and not necessarily correct but accepted because it is easier to do that buck the trend.
I am not aware if you have suffered the wrath and indignation as well I see some feel that it is their divine right to correct and acidictly comment on what someone else, a regular has posted. Now they may have social discourse off of this site that I am not aware of. But from what I have seen, it is unwarranted and unmerited in all if not most instances. Do you not agree?
AY,
I have suffered some slings and arrows, but also too understand that there are some that hide theirs, not talking about you, in seeming sweetness and light. Patty does get a little top carried away for my taste, but she has also been stuck with more than a few barbs, although shot less directly.
With Patty at least you know where she stands and that I appreciate, while I dislike the overkill.
Well after reading the last and the attack on Buddha, oh well. My point is made and made well.
Update.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30824587/
Thanks Buddha…
Oh well. Let the kid die then. If his parents can live with that, then so be it.
Does anyone else find it curious that the family joined the religious group AFTER their son decided he didn’t want more chemotherapy? Seems like they were searching for a reason, rather than having a valid claim of religious beliefs.
Update #2
Child misses hearing, arrest warrant issued for mother, orders to place child in protective custody.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090519/us-forced-chemo/
As a parent, who thankfully never faced a situation like this, all I can say is if its’ my kid and the prognosis is good then the child gets the Chemo, despite the child’s objections. If we’re talking a bout a 10% chance of success then I’d honor the child’s wishes. In this instance the chance of success seems way over 50% and parents who won’t do it are guilty of neglect.
I just saw that article myself Buddha. This story just keeps getting more and more interesting.
I think I see a future “Without a Trace” episode in the making. That or a “Law and Order” episode.
And this?
This makes me want to be another species.
Unrelated to this story other than a child is hurt.
Horrific is not a strong enough word.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/19/angel-vidal-mendoza-accus_n_205442.html
Let’s keep the government out of our business, especially parents trying to do what they think is best for their child. The ‘doctors’ have a vested interest in chemo; it produces money for everyone in the health cre system, and it’s agonizing. No judge has any right to intervene. If this family had money, there would be no issue because it would be a private matter like it should be for everyone.