There is a slew of reports this week that paint a pretty bleak picture. The Labor Department has placed the unemployment rate at 9.4 percent (the highest since 1983), If you add “temp workers” the rate is higher. In the meantime, another report indicates that over 16% of personal income of the United States is now coming from the government.
while
With jobs cuts continuing, we are now at an unemployment rate of roughly one in ten Americans — not including temp jobs or low wage service jobs.
The good news is that the loss of jobs is slowing.
However, we are now seeing the impact of our crushing deficit spending. The government has been pouring out money and it is now endangering recovery according to the Chinese who hold $768 billion in our Treasuries, here.
I’d keep on writing but the combination of these reports and the invention of a new robot teacher has led me to start a subsistence garden.
For the unemployment story, click here.
When Tim Geithner went to China and told the audience that our govt. was on top of the crisis and our T-bills are a safe bet he got laughed at. That says a lot.
The issue that “over 16% of personal income of the United States is now coming from the government” is telling, but does it include military?
We spend more than all of the rest of the nations of the world combined each year. Somebody has to pay for the soldiers, their housing, their food, their weapons, and their forts around the world.
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/04/economy-of-destruction-reaps-poverty.html
What is not part of the equation and therefore not of a statistical value is when the UE Unemployment benefits run out and they no longer are a recipient. They have no value and do not count. But try and tell a person that is hungry that they are not.
A.Y.,
What you said is true. Also, the way the unemployment number is calculated leaves out a lot of actual unemployment. The calculation was changed under Regan (I think). The actual number is almost double the “official” count. And we haven’t even started with the ripple effects from GM’s bankruptcy.
I don’t think that we needed this report, to tell us what we all probably see in our daily travels.
Traffic is much lighter,stores are less occupied, etc.
Jill is correct about the “official” unemployment number. I believe that it deems anyone who hasn’t found a job within six months as no longer looking for work, thus under counting the true amount of unemployed people.
This is the number one issue in this country today and despite protestations to the contrary, a big part of it is the under taxation of the corporations and the wealthy. Dredd is also quite correct about our military spending, which needs reduction. However, part of the problem is if we downsize the military, we put even more people out of work. One solution I think is to remove our bases in places like in S. Korea and
Germany and at least have that money spent back into our own economy.
We are in a depression and are heading for desperation. Like FDR, Obama is doing his best to keep hope alive and we should all support him in that effort. Am I enamored with all his choices? No, but then there is no one that would be President, except myself, who would act exactly as I wished.
I don’t want the job and I honestly know that from my working days, while I was very, very good at my job, I made more than a few mistakes and bad decisions.
Jill,
With regards to your first post:
As Wikipedians would say, [Citation Needed]
As Lolcaters would say, I can has linkz?
You are a little late, Mr Turley, in establishing your garden. Not TOO late, mind you.
You are welcome to share the bounty from my Wicked garden:
http://buelahman.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/bmans-wicked-garden-half-way-planted/
As for Geithner being laughed at by the Chinese:
http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/22418099/geithner-gets-laughs.htm
Sorry for the Fox link. Go to minute 6.
Try this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSPEK14475620090601
or
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/rutabaga_ridgepole/2009/06/chinas-best-and-brightest-laug.php?ref=reccafe
FFN,
Here is a link to the story. It was also on the in-between news on NPR.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5423650/Geithner-insists-Chinese-dollar-assets-are-safe.html
Mike S YOu wrote: We are in a depression and are heading for desperation.
me: that depression started at my house 7 months ago and I have no idea when it will end. I also have no idea where my kids tuition is going to come from and classes start again in august. I never thought in a million years that I’d be living this life. Not once. Not ever. We did it all the right way. We got the right educations, the right jobs, advancement, way better than average pay. We were affluent. I haven’t sold my shoes on EBay yet but I am considering some of my nicer handbags.
One finds out pretty quickly what desperation feels like when they have a strong 20 year resume of c-level management and are doing meet ups at local Starbucks instead of getting real interviews for real jobs.
I like to swim laps and sometimes I have to quit because my goggles fill up with tears. Ever cry while you swim? that’s what desperation looks like for me.
GWLawSchoolmom,
I am in the same boat.
I never dreamed that my foresight, planning, education into robotics and high-tech manufacturing would lead me to the poor house, but alas, it has.
I have also considered EBAY and selling various crapola that even I would not buy (if I had money to buy anything to begin with).
My heart goes out to you and all of us.
Buelah
its kind of nice to not be alone but I wish that neither of us is where we are and that we can get back to some sense of sanity soon because I don’t know how much longer I can pretend that this is some weird sick nightmare that will end before I’m living in a hospital.
keep smiling.
Hey B-Man, Buck-it-up Y’all! Hicks cain survive in ‘ A Country Boy Can Survive’ fashion. Save me at least one turnip from yourn depression garden so’s I aint like ‘ol Scarlet O’Hairuh in that scene from ‘Gone with the Wind’. Hey, pard, ifin’ nothin’ else, we cain refilm them ‘Grapes of Wrath’ in a yar or less…
GWLSMom: When you were discussing your child’s law schooling, I was wondering how viable that might not be. The best of good luck, Ma’am.
FFL,
Something tells me you are a major asshole.
I don’t like assholes.
Hey Buckey, are you down to yourn last Billy Bob beer can? You cain still crush it like a man, doncha know.
Lighten up BuelahMan, you ‘n I done us some hick-talkin’ ‘afore and ya shudda knowed I wuz a’joshin’ y’all.
Seriously, if things are worse than you are letting on, then good luck to you and remember that I am *not* blue blood protected either and I am more blue collar than white collar.
It wasn’t really funny then and it sure ain’t under the particular sentiment of this post.
You have no idea how bad things are for me and my family right now. This subject is no laughing matter to me.
Later
Well then, good luck and please keep your own website going to take your mind off some of the pressures. You obviously have a good sense of humor as exhibited on your site and also a few weeks ago when you posted here and responded to me that I wern’t nigh as much a hick as you wuz.
Keep tillin’ that garden.
spend spend spend spend
32 months of Congress running the checkbook and we are bankrupt.
How is it that these statistics are a surprise to anyone. From his very first press conference, the President has consistantly said this problem isn’t going away any time soon. Perhaps folks are beginning to understand just how deep a hole Bush & Co. put us in. Being critical at this point is like walking into a caterer’s kitchen while preparations for a large party are underway and asking why the pots and pans and food are all over the place.
We’re only half way through 2009. Indicators are that the year will finish in far better shape than it started, but it’ll be well into 2010 before we can see the effects of recovery efforts.
GWLSM & BuelahMan,
To say i understand what you are going through, would be to trivialize it. I cannot know the pain and fear that both of you must be feeling. I have had my own experiences with this in my life and I know how I felt. I wish for better times for both of you.
What is expressed by these two people is going on all over this country in these times. I get enraged with those who have no sense of the disruption that these economic troubles have upon people and families. To those who say that it is not the job of government to try to lessen the burden on citizens in need, I say that they are ignorant bastards, with no sense of what our system has really wrought.
The boom or bust cycle is a holdover from the 19th Century and is artificial, created by the wealthy elite as a money making scheme. At the same time this elite reaps most of its’ benefits from government, while they complain about high taxes. In the end we have changed little from the days of feudalism, where the peasants toiled to aid the luxury of the nobility.
To me the answer to this is not Marxian, because down that path leads to essentially the same world with just a different elite. We can make a capitalist economy work, if we grasp the lessons of the two Roosevelts, Franklin and Teddy. Corporate power must be tightly controlled and a viable safety net must be in place. I would add that health care and a higher education must be available/affordable to all. We are heading into very tough times and it is vital for us to at least be able to approximate in our hearts, the pain and fear felt by those, who played by, yet were failed by the system.
Leo You wrote: GWLSMom: When you were discussing your child’s law schooling, I was wondering how viable that might not be. The best of good luck, Ma’am.
I don’t know about viability. more than a few of her recent L3 friends graduated last month with no jobs to go to, firms withdrawing their offers or deferring their offers. All we have is hope that the economy will improve in the next 2 years and her bona fides will be well established and she’ll get work that will bring her satisfaction and joy.
I am grateful for this place and as I’ve grown to feel safer among you and have started to disclose personal stuff the good wishes that I get from you decent and thoughtful people lift me from much of the despair I feel.
Thank you.
Thanks, Mike.
I am just pissed and little things set me off (like this altercation with FFL). There was a time that nothing bothered me. I was confident, secure, financially sound with healthy wife and child.
But then Insurance skyrocketed and medical bills from my back surgeries, my wife’s back surgeries and her Bi-polar have simply ravaged us. I have spent $23K out of pocket on average for medical alone for 4 years running. During that 4 years manufacturing has been dying, especially in the last year and a half.
I went from over $120K/year in commissions 4 years ago to what appears to be less than $10K or 20K this year if some miracle doesn’t happen.
We had to sell our dream home and now rent (err, live in my Father-in-law’s rental home free), depleted our meager savings, cashed out my retirement, and are still $50K in debt with my business, which caters to manufacturing, tanking (not a significant sell in 4 months). Plants I call on or integrators I sell to are laying off, shutting down or barely limping along. No one is spending money on needed equipment.
I am truly down to nothing in the bank and creditors calling several times a day (thank goodness for Caller ID).
The only reason I still have internet service is due to my business.
I see no light at the end of the tunnel and all I can do is warn people that it is coming for you, as well (unless you are fabulously wealthy).
So, yes, I post some funny crap on my blog, but if you ever read there, you will see that most of my stuff is communicating how the Corptocracy has totally taken over this country and has apparently finally done what I have been predicting for so very long.
I apologize for the rant and the cuss out, FFL.
Mike S You wrote: GWLSM & BuelahMan,
To say i understand what you are going through, would be to trivialize it. I cannot know the pain and fear that both of you must be feeling. I have had my own experiences with this in my life and I know how I felt. I wish for better times for both of you.
What is expressed by these two people is going on all over this country in these times. I get enraged with those who have no sense of the disruption that these economic troubles have upon people and families. To those who say that it is not the job of government to try to lessen the burden on citizens in need, I say that they are ignorant bastards, with no sense of what our system has really wrought.
Me: thank you.
see. the thing is that I am not so different or special. I’m like millions of other people, what is the number up to now? 7 million who have lost their jobs in the last 8 months, who are struggling and uncertain and who have no answers, dwindling resources and growing obligations. how we will manage is yet to be determined. our future is uncertain and I am too old for this shit.
I don’t feel betrayed by my government, I feel betrayed by big businesses that have no loyalty to employees that swept up big piles of money laying around on the ground, make their organizations run smoother and more efficiently and then go and shelter their assets off-shore and do not pay corporate taxes. I feel betrayed by a system that allows CEO’s to make 500% of what the average worker makes and whose failures are rewarded with golden parachutes that insure that their feet will never touch the ground.
BuelahMan,
There was a story this week where over 50% of bankruptcies come from medical costs. With your surgeries and dealing with your wife’s disorder my guess is that you’ve really been through it. There are no words of comfort I could give you without just being glib and inane. Please understand though that my heart goes out to you, to GWLSM and to the untold millions of Americans who are bearing the brunt of this cruel con game.
We have been betrayed by the corporate and banking hucksters, who were sold to us as business geniuses, but whose only loyalty was to the almighty buck and their overweening egos. This endless bloodsucking of the American people must end and it is up to government to help pull us out of the hole. Those who might object to the government being the rescuer are blissfully ignorant of how much largesse the government bestowed on the wealthy elite these last forty years and indeed it has always assisted the haves, to the detriment of the have nots. It’s time for the rest of us to get the help and the money needs to come from those who’ve used the system to satiate their endless greed.
BuelahMan,
You never owed me an apology and I never expected one. I am angry at what Bush et al. has done to this once great Nation and the corruption that abounds throughout government distresses me to no end.
The government is not there to give us everything, and I know as a small businessman, you will likely agree. However, the government has hindered and squandered opportunities for small businesses while lavishing gifts and tax breaks on the wealthiest businesses and they in turn have the money to buy their way out of paying taxes through tax avoidance incentives.
As a man who devoted his life to government as a workaholic, I thoroughly abhor what I now see as those who are in government taking advantage of their secure positions while forgetting that they are public servants first and foremost.
I am a middleclass retiree who is okay as long as the full faith and credit of the government is still viable. I certainly do not have the answers and nothing seems to make any sense nowadays with anything our government is involved. As a lifelong Republican, I put the majority of the blame on George Bush, who himself stood on the shoulders of a corrupt Nixon and a charismatic, but inept Ronald Reagan and his now denounced and disastrous economic policies. Clinton also added to the financial market instabilities with his laxness of market regulation.
We middleclass workers are partly to blame because we were greedy for our small share of the less than $100,000 gross of the bloated/inflated American Pie and because we did not watch over (regulate) our Congresspersons while assuming they had our best interests in mind (instead of lining their own pockets and golden nest eggs).
Do know that there are people who empathize with your situation. As you noted, others are filling your ranks so the government is going to be forced to do something to help and help they should since those in government are mostly to blame for letting big business control and regulate government instead of vice versa.
BuelhaMan,
My friend said Oprah now does her own nails to save money. I’m certain that tip will help you and many others out.
Actually,
I’m really pissed off about what you’re going through. I’m so sorry. It is unacceptable. The many people who pointed this out are correct to say this is not the story of one or two people, but of so many of us in our nation. Govt. spending in this nation is “priority wrong”.
Thanks, all.
I just want a fair shot. But the ones getting the shots are rich bankers who took their HUGE companies past the point of devastation mine is in and they get bailouts while me and many more like me get squat.
As Jill points out, the spending priorities are wrong. We are an Empire and being an Empire is costly. Enough to equal what the rest of the world spends to “keep them in check”. Many of the other countries that benefit from our Imperialism have Universal healthcare, which would help my situation tremendously (I have paid premium health insurance through BCBS for MANY years).
We spend huge amounts of money on the “war on drugs” when marijuana is the best medicine my wife could use, but won’t because it is illegal. She would be considered a criminal in this state to get the best meds available (she has tried them all).
We allow the Treasury to be overtaken by the very foxes that killed all the hens to begin with. We have elected into government, people who are enriched and empowered by the Corporate criminals that have brought our manufacturing base to a standstill… which, in turn, turns my life and the many hundreds of thousands of other lives who depend on it into messes like mine.
Thanks for all the well wishes. That does help my sanity and gives me a ray of hope.
I heard last night on ‘The Ed Show’ that 60% of all bankruptcy’s are caused by medical costs. And single payer is off the table. Ed is the working class Olbermann.
GWLawSchoolMom and BuelahMan, I am so sorry to hear of your difficulties, there is no excuse for the betrayal of the working class in this country and Mike S’s analysis is absolutely correct but it couldn’t have been done without Congress and most of the traitors that enabled Regan et al are still there, doing what they do.
‘Where are the Puerto Ricans now that we need them?’ has crossed my mind more than once in the last few years.
Not even sure where to begin since economics is rarely discussed here. I’ll use a broad brush.
I agree with Mike that the government is actually run for (and by) corporate and banking interests. The system we are now living under has evolved into full fledged corporatism, where corporations keep politicians in power in exchange for contracts and favorable legislation from the government.
Everyone knows how this worked with Halliburton back when Dick Cheney came into office. Many know about ethanol and ADM. People are now catching on to firms like Goldman Sachs and the incestuous relationship between much of the financial sector and power circles in government. It’s everywhere, and it’s not capitalism.
The ultimate scheme protected by the government is the Federal Reserve Bank, a corporation given monopoly control over money creation and interest rates. The Fed’s role as a central bank allows the federal government to borrow unlimited amounts of money. The removal of any kind of constraint on the size of the money supply (like a gold standard) removed the last limits on the reach of government. This continues to play out, perhaps until the currency collapses.
This combination is how our government can even rob future generations through massive debt creation and inflation! This lets the government pay for its continuous expansion, our US empire, our wars, and for entitlement program spending that predictably facilitates the re-election of our ruling class in both parties. All this without having to tax the people at anywhere near the level of government spending! Magic.
As one who was out of work for 6 months last year, and with my brother who has been out of work for over a year now, I can understand what is going on in this country. I do believe that things are slowly getting better. The market’s rise the last 3 months may be beginning of the recovery, but I do believe it will be a slow recovery.
Mike S., I enjoyed your comments and Beulah and GWMom, I hope your situations improve as quickly as possible. Keep the faith and continue to visit here and share your thoughts and emotions. It will help all of us.
Lotta You wrote: there is no excuse for the betrayal of the working class in this country
working class? who’s working class? not me. I’m a mid-century princess reared by parents who escaped the holocaust and suffered thorough the depression to give me and my sibs the best that american suburban life had to offer. I’ve never known hunger, financial insecurity, and except for the people who worked for us as domestics, never saw people who did. Not to sound like some snotty oblesse oblige stereotype, e were not the wealthiest in the neighborhood but I never went without shoes or clothing or medical care. My dad did well in his profession, even if he was kept from medical school due to anti-jewish quotas, and my mom was a fund raiser for a huge 501C3 that made her financially independent and we all lived very well. we belonged to the jewish country club and the right synagogue with the best youth groups and vacationed at the house my parents rented in malibu every summer.
I never questioned my place in the world, and never thought I’d go anywhere but higher in the food chain. I’m extremely well travelled and well educated and have just enough neurosis to make me interesting at a cocktail party. I hang out with artists and writers and for a short time in the late 70′s got a little bit famous writing poetry and had a few affairs with men whose names you’d recognize.
If I met myself tomorrow I wouldn’t even know me. and its not because I overvalue my background and life story. Its because I never expected that anything could penetrate the insulation of advantage and affluence that I’ve had all my life. My expectation that it would continue uninterruptedly is the pie in my face. Bad stuff does indeed happen to others I just stupidly thought I was immune.
I’m trying to decide if we’re lucky to be going through our young poor (and I mean poor, our choices aren’t “should I sell a hand bag” they’re “do we have enough to keep our dog”) couple living on love stage right now or not.
Beulah/GWLawMom:
I can add nothing to ease your burden save this line from Churchill I remember from my youth. My father, no stranger to hard finacial times, always used this little saying when I met some disappointment. It didn’t buoy my spirits then, but it should have.
“Kites rise highest against the wind – not with it.”
—Winston S. Churchill
rafflaw writes: GWMom, I hope your situations improve as quickly as possible. Keep the faith and continue to visit here and share your thoughts and emotions. It will help all of us.
thanks. I’m not looking for sympathy although I do appreciate it. I think I’m seeking redemption for living in a nearly delusional state for all my life. It was a delusion of the most insidious kind of grandiose thinking that I’d be unaffected by things that have no morality or IQ but are completely random. I do feel for every American in my place who through no fault of their own find themselves in much worse straights than I myself experience. times are hard for lots of people.
dig this: something like 1 in 6 children in the country live in the most back-breaking gut-wrenching poverty one can imagine… like India poverty… and yes, I’ve been to India and have seen the crowds of orphans that beg at every rail station, some carrying dead infants, many intentionally blinded.
1 in 10 children in America is homeless or will experience a protracted period of homelessness. we are like 27th in literacy worldwide and below most first world nations in infant mortality. A huge percentage of Americans are forced to use emergency rooms as their primary source of health care at rates around $600/hr.
something will happen for me, for my family. we won’t be like this forever. someone somewhere that my husband helped will connect him to a job and we’ll dig ourselves out of this hole and once we do I will never again take my good fortune for granted.
Gyges You wrote: I’m trying to decide if we’re lucky to be going through our young poor (and I mean poor, our choices aren’t “should I sell a hand bag” they’re “do we have enough to keep our dog”) couple living on love stage right now or not.
YOu are lucky to be in love while you don’t have much money. love will get ou through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no love. I paraphrase Jerry Garcia who once said “pot will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no pot”
My squeeze and I went through our young poor stage when he was a grad student and then a post-doc making $600 a month and I was lucky enough to find a $7 hr job. okay so it was 28 years ago and our rent was $350,but we were budgeted down to out last 35 cents each month. My parents loaned us $10k to buy our first house when interest rates were 18% and they had to co-sign the loan and gradually we worked and saved and climbed up the food chain. even so, we were not impoverished or afraid. we knew that our educations would pay off and we’d get raises and promotions and we refinanced the house a few times and then moved around every time my husband’s company moved his job to another state. As a thank you for going along with being uprooted every 3-5 years I’d get a slightly grander house and maybe a nicer car. we raised the kids and gave them every advantage we could afford and then it all ended.
I am happy to report that love is once again getting us through times of no money. and I would not give up those early lean years for anything.
Mespo writes Kites rise highest against the wind – not with it.”
—Winston S. Churchill
thanks, doll.
I knew there was a reason I’d like this place.
GWLawSM:
Me too!
I thought you all might be interested to know that the Health Insurance Companies that have a stranglehold on our helath also are extremely heavy investors in tobacco companies and products.
That seems perfectly apt for the screwed up system we have in America.
http://buelahman.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/richard-noggin-saturday-health-insurance-companies/
rafflaw,
I am very sorry to hear of your and your brother’s situation. I’m glad you were able to find a job and hope the same for your brother.
gyges,
Pets are expensive and I know it would be hearbreaking to give up your dog. I truly hope you will not have to do this. It has always sounded to me that there was a lot of love in your new family and I’m glad for that.
Here’s a great story to lift the spirits!
“Gun-loving pastor to his flock: Piece be with you
AP
Ken Pagano, pastor of New Bethel Church in Louisville, Kentucky, talks, AP – Ken Pagano, pastor of New Bethel Church in Louisville, Kentucky, talks, Wednesday, June 3, 2009, about …
By DYLAN T. LOVAN, Associated Press Writer Dylan T. Lovan, Associated Press Writer – Thu Jun 4, 5:50 pm ET
LOUISVILLE, Ky. – A Kentucky pastor is inviting his flock to bring guns to church to celebrate the Fourth of July and the Second Amendment.
New Bethel Church is welcoming “responsible handgun owners” to wear their firearms inside the church June 27, a Saturday. An ad says there will be a handgun raffle, patriotic music and information on gun safety.
“We’re just going to celebrate the upcoming theme of the birth of our nation,” said pastor Ken Pagano. “And we’re not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms — without that this country wouldn’t be here.”
The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door, Pagano said.
He said recent church shootings, including the killing Sunday of a late-term abortion provider in Kansas, which he condemned, highlight the need to promote safe gun ownership. The New Bethel Church event was planned months before Dr. George Tiller was shot to death in a Wichita church.
Kentucky allows residents to openly carry guns in public with some restrictions. Gun owners carrying concealed weapons must have state-issued permits and can’t take them to schools, jails or bars, among other exceptions.
Pagano’s Protestant church, which attracts up to 150 people to Sunday services, is a member of the Assemblies of God. The former Marine and handgun instructor said he expected some backlash, but has heard only a “little bit” of criticism of the gun event.
John Phillips, an Arkansas pastor who was shot twice while leading a service at his former church in 1986, said a house of worship is no place for firearms.
“A church is designated as a safe haven, it’s a place of worship,” said Phillips, who was shot by a church member’s relative for an unknown reason and still has a bullet lodged in his spine. “It is unconscionable to me to think that a church would be a place that you would even want to bring a weapon.”
Phillips spoke out against a bill before the Arkansas General Assembly that would have permitted the carrying of guns in that state’s churches. The bill failed in February.
Pagano, 50, said some members of his church were concerned that President Obama’s administration could restrict gun ownership, and they supported the plan for the event when Pagano asked their opinion.
Marian McClure Taylor, executive director of the Kentucky Council of Churches, an umbrella organization for 11 Christian denominations in Kentucky, said Christian churches are promoters of peace, but “most allow for arms to be taken up under certain conditions.”
Taylor said Pagano assured her the event would focus on promoting responsible gun ownership and any proceeds would go to charity.
“Those two commitments are consistent with the high value the Assemblies of God churches place on human life,” she said in an e-mail message.
Pagano is encouraging church members to bring a canned good and a friend to the event. He said guns must be unloaded for insurance purposes and safety reasons.
He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible.
“Firearms can be evil and they can be useful,” he said. “We’re just trying to promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety.”
“The government is not there to give us everything, and I know as a small businessman, you will likely agree. However, the government has hindered and squandered opportunities for small businesses while lavishing gifts and tax breaks on the wealthiest businesses and they in turn have the money to buy their way out of paying taxes through tax avoidance incentives.
As a man who devoted his life to government as a workaholic, I thoroughly abhor what I now see as those who are in government taking advantage of their secure positions while forgetting that they are public servants first and foremost.’
FFLEO,
Great entry that bears repeating. This is why you a conservative and me a liberal can actually find much common ground. The problem was never capitalism per se, it was the manipulation of it by the rich and powerful to increase their share, while putting more burden on what to them were the lower classes. Perhaps you and I may disagree on the details of how to fix it, but our common ground on the problems shows that this is not about political philosophy, but about stopping the theft of our national resources.
There were so many great posts to read this AM, but the sun is high and the swimming pool calls. Catch up with everyone anon.
The insults of the “Greed is Good” philosophy have been poured on us all to the point of destruction. But I fear the final and greatest insult will be when the Trustafarians and sociopath Libertarians point to all the Trillions Geitner, Summers and Obama are pouring into Banksters accounts and shout; “See? Liberal Gummint spending doesn’t work! We need to slash taxes and cut government to nothing!”
The irony being – hardly a penny is being spent by government on anyone or any biz with less than a $100 Million in equity. Obama is fulfilling the wet-dream of the Rand Republicans: put the government so far into debt that it will never be able to pay for another program or regulation oversight department, ever.
It will take more than 45 years for the government to pay off the interest it owes. Not even one penny of the actual amount.. just the interest. It’s over.
But in a final note I must say, a large part of the blame for this rests in that relentless positivism that’s been so pernicious for years in the USA. Any criticism was branded “loser” thinking and legitimate doubts raised would be labelled acts of spite, a la “You’re just jealous coz he’s got a Billion dollars and you don’t. Get over it, loser” Or, a parallel example is when any criticism was levelled at Israel.. “Oh, you’re an anti-semitic nazi, I’m submitting your name to the Wiesenthal Center..” – thus effectively shutting down any argument. Well here’s the reward for so faithfully toeing our leaders’ diktats.
Hidflect writes: “Obama is fulfilling the wet-dream of the Rand Republicans: put the government so far into debt that it will never be able to pay for another program or regulation oversight department, ever”
The problem with this theory is that the Treasury is not limited to how much money it can borrow. If the government needs $2 trillion to fund a new war in Pakistan or for the program of some new Czar, it can simply issue US Treasuries that are in turn purchased directly by the Federal Reserve. The Fed can issue an unlimited amount of new US dollars.
Therefore, the idea that the federal government will be constrained by the level of debt is false.
People that hold these treasuries (like China) needn’t be concerned that they won’t be paid back. Instead, they will need to be concerned that the dollars they are paid with are so devalued that they won’t have much purchasing power. That is why China is now loudly warning the US to stop printing money.
Mike Spindell said,”catch up with everyone anon”. I have never gone on this site without seeing many posts by you. Maybe you are taking a break.
First off I would like to say how sorry I am for people that have lost their jobs.
The loss of a job however is not the result of bankers or of CEO’s of large corporations, it is a direct result of government policies over the past number of years. If Obama is able to institute his policies fully we are going to see hyper inflation and many more job losses in the coming months and years.
I would suggest if you have any money you put it in a safe country, say China or Russia. I see large estates for sale in the local magazines and I can guess the rich are moving their money offshore to avoid the coming confiscation through heavy taxation, which has to happen because of this ridiculous stimulus package.
But then I will assume most of you voted for this guy (Obama) so you reap what you sow. And to Bush and his TARP I guess those people got what they deserved too.
The engine of job creation is the private sector.
To those that lost their jobs – start a business, it dosent have to be glamorous but you can make money cutting grass or selling hot dogs on a street corner. Or setting up manufacturing of purses in say Bolivia. You can also clean houses or any number of things. Do you have a hobby you enjoy? Can you turn it into a business, do it. In this country, even with all the regulations it is still relatively easy to make a buck. Go for it and good luck.
It beats sitting around feeling sorry for yourself and waiting/hoping for Nanny Sam to come and maybe bail you out.
Indentured Servant writes:
But then I will assume most of you voted for this guy (Obama) so you reap what you sow. And to Bush and his TARP I guess those people got what they deserved too.
me: you are sorry for people who have lost their jobs through not fault of their own but because management of large corporations can’t think of a more creative way to cut costs than workforce reductions? And then have the audacity to have us accept our misfortunes because we voted for Obama?
is that what you are saying?
my husband lost his job 7 months ago. In October. before the election.
and there are about 5 million others who lost their jobs before that.
GWLawSchoolMom:
I think I indicted Bush too. Corporations can only do so much cost cutting. It might be nice if they could have some tax breaks too.
Both parties have no clue on the economy as both Bush and now Obama have shown. It is a shame to, because real people like you loose jobs. the government causes the problem and then business gets blamed for not doing enough. How can they, government holds all the cards.
You should be getting upset at your elected officials for making laws and regulations that strangle business and restrict market entry.
Blaming business for loss of jobs is like blaming the fire department for a fire.
I am speaking generally, certainly there are bad businesses and people that run them, but they are probably in the minority.
As I said above start a business of your own, many people have and are very successful.
I wish you good luck if you do.
Indentured Servant is part of this relentless positivism I commented about above. Make lemons from lemonade. No discussion of prosecuting the Corporate people responsible for the looming $540 Trillion derivatives hole that blasted and will continue to blast so many jobs from this earth.
You can call an American any foul-mouthed name you like and they will grin back at you. But call them a loser and you’ll be on the receiving end of a vociferous, incoherent rant. So averse are the right-wing and conservatives to this concept that (like the Fonz being unable to enunciate “I was wrong”) they are unable to even spell the word “lose” properly. Inevitably spelling it “loose”. Time and again I read “looser” or “loose” on comment pages from these people. I wasn’t a big fan of Freud’s theories but really.. it’s quite disturbing how often this occurs.
Before smugly recommending that people who have lost their jobs and 401K’s through no fault of their own should start cleaning houses, maybe the recommendation should be arresting and jailing the perpetrators of these high crimes. Republicans to a man that they obviously are.
hidflect:
my o sticks.
Well everyone thought junk bonds were not so good either. It’s just another way of funding companies that create jobs. If your 401 k sucks maybe its because you have a limited choice in what to invest in because your government wont allow you to put it into something good.
I invest my own money and I am down about 20%, granted I dont take much risk and I like stocks that provide dividends.
Before you get all hot and bothered about derivatives go and really investigate them.
Democrats are no less at fault than are republicans, our elected officials do not know anything about economics (for the most part)so I think the solution is to not vote for either party and find some candidates that know something about economics.
If you were honest you would admit that government and not the private sector is at fault.
I always like an argument being shot down because of one to many o’s. But then that is pretty typical.
Are you too good to clean houses? Now I know what you really think of the people that do that type of work. I personally have a saying “there are no bad jobs only bad men that do them”. The translation is that any work no matter how unskilled is valuable and that anybody willing to work at one of these jobs has worth because they are willing to work and not sit on their candy coated arse whining about not having a job.
Hidflect – I won’t speak for I.S., but I think you’re missing his point. Both parties are clearly guilty of pro-corporatist policies and for empowering the government to create winners and losers in the private sector. I for one do not like to evaluate policy through the lens of the two party dynamic because it eliminates the possibility that both parties are wrong.
In terms of criminal prosecution, there is no higher crime than government and Federal Reserve control over the entire money supply. This allows government and the banking system to continuously rob citizens through inflation and debt creation, and allows politicians to spend money they do not have to raise through taxation. Some of this money will come from our children and grandchildren that haven’t even been born yet! When government creates artificially low interest rates and then allows banks to lend money they don’t have, we get things like the dot com and housing bubbles (and ever rising tuition, etc). The government is the root of the problem.
Republicans under Bush advanced many corporatist policies by the federal government and also set many new precedents for intervention by government in the private sector. These same powers are now being used to favor slightly different corporate (and union) interests under Obama. I see little difference between the two parties in this regard.
For a preview of where this will lead in the United States, one need only watch this video of how Putin forced public submission by an aluminum company CEO this week in Russia. Watch:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8086549.stm
Puzzling:
you are doing fine.
Socialism is the cancer capitalism is the answer. To paraphrase our Muslim brothers.
Swartzmore mom,
I was in Houston at a convention.
Indentured You wrote: I think I indicted Bush too. Corporations can only do so much cost cutting. It might be nice if they could have some tax breaks too.
me: You are going to be the funny one. I can tell. tax breaks for corporations? Good one. I’m laughing.
IS: Both parties have no clue on the economy as both Bush and now Obama have shown. It is a shame to, because real people like you loose jobs. the government causes the problem and then business gets blamed for not doing enough. How can they, government holds all the cards.
me: what are you saying? that the worlds smartest economists know nothing about the economy and the President has something to do with their ignorance because he holds the cards? Like he wants the economy to fail?
IS: You should be getting upset at your elected officials for making laws and regulations that strangle business and restrict market entry.
me: okay. wait right here while I get angry. okay. done being angry now. what do suggest next?
IS: Blaming business for loss of jobs is like blaming the fire department for a fire.
Me: you have never worked for a large multinational company at the upper levels have you?
IS: I am speaking generally, certainly there are bad businesses and people that run them, but they are probably in the minority.
Me: generally? speaking generally? how about speaking specifically?
IS: As I said above start a business of your own, many people have and are very successful.
Me: yeah. I said I could tell you were the funny one.
GWLawSchoolMom:
I am told I have a good sense of humor. I am certainly glad you appreciate it.
IS, Puzzling,
Here’s what I don’t get, you’ve said several times something that boils down to, “this is the govt’s fault for rigging the system.” Well why isn’t it the fault of the people for whom the system is rigged?
One thing that’s been puzzling me lately about the modern libertarianism is its focus on government as the only cause of loss of personal freedom. Any large organization has the ability to rig the system. Why should we single out only the one for regulation?
“The loss of a job however is not the result of bankers or of CEO’s of large corporations, it is a direct result of government policies over the past number of years.”
IS,
In some sense you are correct that government policies have led to a loss of jobs. My guess is that you ascribe it to the wrong policies. The loss of jobs is a direct result of government (Bush/Cheney Crime Family and their legislative enablers) not enforcing the regulatory laws on the books that
would have checked the insane manner in which corporate business is run in this country.
In the end though it is the major corporations who are to blame for the loss of jobs. Wrong decisions by the auto companies as to which vehicles to build. Greedy decisions by corporate management to falsely increase profits by laying off workers (See Circuit City)to increase profit which drove stock prices up increasing management’s stock options. Predatory investors taking over viable companies and then selling them off piece by piece. An insurance industry (see AIG)that forgot that you needed to back up obligations with actual capital. A banking industry that engaged in a host of predatory lending practices.
“Corporations can only do so much cost cutting. It might be nice if they could have some tax breaks too.”
40% of major US corporations pay no taxes. The other 60% avoid them through tax breaks and hiding the money in places like the Cayman Islands.
“As I said above start a business of your own, many people have and are very successful.”
The rate of small business failure in the US for the first year of operations is around 95% and has been for many, many
years. That represents people who have the money, or credit to start one. Millions of people have neither.
“I invest my own money and I am down about 20%, granted I dont take much risk and I like stocks that provide dividends.”
How nice that you have money to invest. Most people in America don’t even have enough extra money to save. I am glad that you’re able to have discretionary funds. People who were working for Enron for instance watched their retirement savings go down the tubes as a corrupt management
played fast and loose with the jobs and their futures.
Now you don’t seem a bad type of person and you do evince some sympathy for the unemployed. However, perhaps because of your own financial good fortune, or acumen, you are really unable to understand that Government since the 80′s has been run for the benefit of major corporations and financial institutions. These corporations and financial institutions have chosen to run con games so that upper management could enrich themselves, rather than actually trying to build and maintain their businesses. I’m no saint and perhaps if I saw I could walk away with $100 million or so I might have been tempted to do the same.
However you slice it, if you could look beyond your own pre-judgments, you must acknowledged that our financial crisis is the result of greedy corporatists, who cared not a whit for their company, their workers, or their Nation. They made their bundles, some even did some jail time and now we call them philanthropists.
Mike,
I had to avoid IS’s comments because they appear so out of touch with reality.
Yeah, lose your job and just start up a business, right?
How about capital?
Of course, it doesn’t cost much to join the millions of other EBAy purveyors as we try to sell off our junk.
I supposed Lemonade stands are not to capital intensive.
Maybe a baby-sitting service for those that have only lost 20% and not ALL of it.
Yes, out of touch or totally ignorant.
You make the call.
BeulahMan,
My guess is out of touch because he does show a modicum of sympathy. The trouble is that people who have done well financially, whether through luck of the draw, or their own efforts, somehow lose insight into how really tough it is to earn a living and support a family.
I was always employed, mostly at very good jobs and always avoided credit debt, yet there were times when I had to not pay a bill for a month in order to get expensive antibiotics for my kids. There was another point of about 4 months in the 90′s where with my advanced degrees and an Executive Position at work, I had to work 36 hours each weekend driving stretch Limos just to keep my family afloat and the mortgage paid. People who haven’t been there find it hard to imagine the fear, tension and anguish lack of money causes, especially when you have a family with young kids.
It is actually that easy and many people do it every year. You have to start small and learn some ropes and use other peoples money so yours is left alone. Also the Federal government has grants and loans you can take advantage of. I know many that have.
If I can do it anyone can do it, it dose not take much effort to make 100k/year in this country. To put it in perspective that is 25 lawns a week at 75$/each or about 4 lawns per day if you work Saturdays. Seems like a reasonable work week to me. Plus you sell other services if you live somewhere that has seasons, leaf control, power washing, weeding, etc.
A friend of mine just had an idea for a handy man service, he charges about 100 bucks to change a light bulb (and people pay it) or clean gutters, put in a window or patch drywall.
I guess I don’t really know what its like to not have a job because I have always had one, even it was to just cut lawns or wash dishes. I do okay but I am not a millionaire (at least not yet but I am trying).
What I am saying is to not be discouraged and look on loosing a job as an opportunity for a better situation. You can either hang around the house waiting for something to come to you or go out and shake the trees and make something happen.
What I am saying is to not be discouraged and look on loosing a job as an opportunity for a better situation.
Funny.
I read an article today (wish I could find the link) that discusses the right-wing’s inability to understand (or spell) the word lose. In the article, it was saying that the right-wingers are so ignorant that they have no idea what “losing” something really means.
First: Only a fool would pay someone $100 to change a standard light bulb.
But let us do the math:
To put it in perspective that is 25 lawns a week at 75$/each or about 4 lawns per day if you work Saturdays
How many lawn mowers would this take and how much maintenance and gas?
How many lawn caregivers are supportable in this financial predicament (I would pay anyone jack shinola to mow my yard, much less $75).
I suppose that every recently unemployed person could break out their lawn mowers and start a business, right?
Dear lord, save me from the idiocy that has hijacked America.
Buelah,
This is the beauty of the plan: You’ll be working 8 hours a day (1 1/2 hours a lawn, plus book-keeping, travel, maintenance, etc.) 6 days a week. So you won’t have time to mow your own lawn, so you’ll hire me. I in turn will be working 6 days a week doing other people who own landscape companies lawns so I’ll have to hire them, and they’ll have to hire you…
We can’t lose!
LOL
Traveling with work recently I heard some commentary from some yahoo in TN (where I live, and yes, I am a yahoo, too) who was discussing with the radio personality (local talk radio… and NO, progressive radio does not exist down here) how he was tired of hearing people complain about losing (loosing) their jobs.
He said, “Do what I did and go to truck driving school.”
The theme among these people is that we should stop bitching about losing the jobs we have (mine making upwards of $150K/year on good years) and start driving trucks, mowing grass, selling crap on EBAY (do something for far less money because the good jobs are leaving).
Don’t correct the mistake of sending all of our manufacturing overseas (thereby limiting the crap the man wants to haul in his truck) and take whatever low paying job you can get. By all means, STFU and be an American. Quiet. Complacent.
The “Service Sector” in America is nothing more than taking us all to poverty levels.
And the right-wing sheople may now say, “Amen.”
Beulah,
I’m an independent contractor of sorts (I’m a musician, and also teach privately, and do music classes for in home day cares), of course I also have to have a day gig (as does almost every musician I know that’s not in school and living off of student loans). So I know all about working for yourself.
I’ve also worked in several small businesses (3 employees and the owner on average), none of the owners were making much more than their employees (and these were successful, long standing businesses). Not to mention all my family that have run their own businesses (from a publishing company to a place that taught porcelain doll making to landscaping\handyman). The only people who were able to actually pull it off were the ones that had enough money that it was an investment and not the sole source of income for the first few years. Everyone else had to close shop early on and ended up in much worse financial straits after the attempt.
I actually dont think the right wingers had much to do with wanting to send jobs overseas. We want low taxes, less regulations and a business friendly environment. You cannot tax the living skezix out of a company and expect it to retain jobs.
both Gyges and Beulahman seem to have a limited understanding of economics and an historical perspective as to the nature of job loss and creation in the US over the last 50 years.
Companies are in business to make money, if they cannot they will move to a location where they can. It is a simple fact.
Make the environment in the US conducive to business and they will come back and employ Americans again.
By the way I pay someone $75 bucks to cut my grass and it takes them 1.5 hours and I pay them cash. probably costs 5 bucks for gas for both the car and the mower.
Here is another one you may like-bake cookies, Wally Amos did it and so did Mrs. Fields.
You all can laugh all you want at my suggestions but people do it every day.
Seems to me some people dont have the cajones to get up and go and want to sit back and bitch about what they lost and not what they have.
You cant always move forward, sometimes you have to take a couple of steps backward to be able to move forward again.
IS,
You do know that a company that moves production out of the U.S. still has to pay taxes on items sold in the U.S. right?
Instead of taxes, think labor costs.
Haven’t any of you people watched “The Secret”? Tape the hundred dollar bill on your ceiling and meditate on abundance. Imagine money falling all around you. Affirm yourself with the words; I am rich, I am rich. (And people say we don’t practice withcraft in America!)
Gyges,
I liked your work-ponzi scheme.
I get it now.
Something like this?
http://thesquirrelshole.com/custom_squirrels.html
Gotta be a market.
BuelahMan,
That was fabulous!!! I have seen a home where every square inch was covered with taxidermy. (You haven’t lived until you’ve seen a taxidermy toilet paper cozy!) I have seen another home of a “big game hunter” with walls of endangered species and I have made the hodge to Cabela’s, but I have never seen anthing quite like this before. Well done sir, well done!
Author: Indentured Servant
Comment:
It is actually that easy and many people do it every year. You have to start small and learn some ropes and use other peoples money so yours is left alone. Also the Federal government has grants and loans you can take advantage of. I know many that have.
you really are pollyanna, aren’t you?
its easy to dream up some small business. just open a pet shop or nail salon or start an auto repair or sell widgets. there is plenty of retail space available from lessees who have gone out of business because people in the community are no longer buying widgets. They can’t afford them because if they have not yet lost jobs they fear they they still may lose them and are economizing.
add to that the small detail…. if you own a home any lender for a small business loan wants that as collateral against your loan.
wake up. join us here in the real grown up world. it is a little scary at first but you’ll get used to it. promise.
IS,
I apologize for creating a straw man (I don’t think you’re saying everyone should start a lawn care business).
The point isn’t that people shouldn’t start their own business. It’s that your attitude that everyone can do it, and that if you don’t you’re just a whiner is flat wrong, and insulting.
I also want to ask if you have any thoughts on my original questions: Why isn’t it the also fault of the people for whom the government rigged the system? If the main reason we limit government power is to keep them from limiting personal freedoms, why shouldn’t we do the same to large corporations?
Gyges,
There’s a lot out there that I think you would find interesting, particularly as it relates to the world of finance and the role of the government.
Government has a role in this realm, no doubt, although I believe many overestimate its strengths and underestimate its contribution to the current problems. Let’s look at just one example.
Are the ratings agencies responsible for putting “AAA” stamps on extremely risky subprime collateralized debt? How many people in the US and elsewhere lost their life savings on such debt? Many.
Is this the responsibility of those firms, like Moody’s, S&P, and Fitch? Sure it is. But why did they do it?
Government regulations require banks and some types of funds to only by “AAA” debt securities. The government creates the list of firms (called NRSRO’s) that are allowed to make such ratings. These firms were in turn paid by the ISSUERS of these debt securities rather than the purchasers. Because the US government has approved only a handful of NRSRO’s, they had no competition, and independent judgments on the value of these securities were worthless in the marketplace. Turns out they were very wrong, probably deliberately so, and government empowered them to cash in on this for years while crushing competing views through the power of regulation.
Ultimately, the failure of the ratings agencies was caused by government, not by the predictable actions of monopolies that government created. It is better to simply undo this monopoly than put layer upon layer of regulation on top of it.
How effective is the government as overseer? The SEC knew about Madoff in detail for decades, and yet was unwilling to do anything about it. Many independent parties on Wall Street and elsewhere knew that Madoff’s strangely stable returns must be a ponzi scheme, and stayed away. Faith in government (in this case spanning across many administrations in both parties) is misplaced. They had near perfect knowledge of the situation and failed to intervene. For decades!
And that’s not to say that all regulation is bad, but that the tendency to ever greater regulation creates unintended consequences that can be even more costly. There are more Madoff’s out there, and the ultimate ponzi scheme is the government control of the money supply, where more and more worthless money is issued by the government, robbing the original money in your wallet and bank account of it’s value.
I’m sure I’ve reached the end of many attention spans tonight. I’d be glad to continue the conversation.
Gyges and everyone except puzzling:
puzzling is right, government intervention in the market place causes more problems than it solves. Think wak a mole, you cant control the market through regulation the market has to control the market through individual transaction, call it rational self interest.
GWMOM- why dont you grow up and join the adult world and quit living in the Nanny State. Sometimes it’s scary to not rely on government for everything but you get over it once you decide to only live for yourself and not for others and expect others to not live for you.
Gyges:
what if they dont sell the items in the US?
Looks like the Chinese are going to sell Hummers to 1.5 billion screaming Chinese.
All I can say is that once you all figure out that government is not the answer maybe then we can have a healthy economy. Your policies fail in every venue in every time that they are tried. Socialism dosent work because people are people and are by nature selfish, get over it and grow up.
The problem is that government, including primarily the right wing (which is also the majority of Democrats), has allowed Corporations and banks to marry them into an unholy (an once illegal) union.
It was the lack of government oversight AND the marriage of these two that has caused the state of affairs we are in. Corporatism or Corporate Fascism: either will work.
IS (Indentured Servant) is so far off base on many issues, but that is not surprising to me.
As an example, I would prophecy that China will sell some Hummers, but overall, it will be a bust for the consumer market.
If they took the military side (excuse me, if they were “given” the military side) then our government shows us again how stupid they can be.
IS wants us to think that Big government is bad, but he doesn’t say a word about the privatization of our military and other government functions that push for less population assistance to profit over every little issue.
Your idea of capitalism, IS, doesn’t work. It is obvious. And clearly, it is due to NOT NEAR enough regulation and control of the crooks and robbers (and liars) who permeate government and the right-wing agenda (which is basically both parties).
Few people here are fools, IS. So stop treating us that way.
Thank you.
BuelahMan,
You are right on target re: IS and puzzling’s skewed view of government. In fact their view has been the predominant one since Reagan and that hasn’t worked out very well. IS says the market should control itself through “rational self interest” which is exactly what they’ve been allowed to do for the last 30 years. It turns out that greed was more the motivating force than “rational self interest,” coupled with a complete
disdain for playing by their own rules.
Puzzling is more with it in his allusions to the Federal Reserve, but loses sight of the fact that the FED is not a government agency and the government has no oversight authority on it. It is run by and for the Banks and how has that worked out.
IS on the other hand says it all when he writes that he pays some $75, for 1 & 1/2 hours of lawn work. That says to me that he is so divorced from the average persons life as to be unable to relate to it rationally or emotively. He totally failed to respond to the point in my post above about the fact that 95% of small businesses fail in their first year, or about the fact that most major corporations don’t pay their fair share of taxes.
A definition of insanity is to keep doing what has obviously been failing. These believers in a self-regulating market in that sense buy into the insanity that has ruled for three decades.
Mike is correct about the FED.
“The Federal Reserve is no more federal than Federal Express, but yet it has the power to determine the direction and use of money in our economy…. We also have to address the issue of the fractional reserve system, which is how banks create money out of thin air. As they do that, they’ve created the conditions where we’ve had this kind of ponzi scheme, collapsing.”
- Dennis Kucinich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR2EtMteHCg (4:00)
Who established a private central banking system? The government in 1913.
Who were the largest donors for the election of Wilson? The bankers who sought this legislation.
Who allows banks to lend money they don’t have by legalizing fractional reserve lending? The government.
Who creates incentives for banks to take huge risks with deposits? The government, through the FDIC.
Who took the US dollar off of any gold standard, so that these systems could create unlimited amounts of dollars? The government, under Nixon.
How did George Bush fund the Iraq war? Through use of borrowed money done through these systems. It would have been much harder for Bush and Cheney to mount and scale their war if the taxpayers actually had to pay for these war costs directly.
To argue that free market monetary policies have resulted in today’s problems assumes that we have had a free market in the first place. That’s just simply not true. Instead, we have a financial system that favors certain private interests, has thoroughly corrupted our political landscape, and even enables war.
Apologies for the odd formatting of my message. There was a youtube link in there somewhere. Apparently didn’t make it…
Bman:
I think the right is worse than the left because they should know better. Government at all levels is way to large, they tax the skezix out of us and they spend and spend on things that we don’t need and don’t want.
The federal reserve steels our money because they can print at will and the morons in congress kowtow to K street and big corps.
I think big corps would sh… themselves if they actually had to be competitive in the market place and not rely on government.
That’s why I like free market capitalism because it doesn’t give anyone a free pass.
MS:
75 bucks for lawn service is actually a pretty good price around here so I am not out in la-la land smoking crack.
“Nine out of ten new businesses fail in their first year, usually because of lack of training in standard business practices or because of undercapitalization. But business start-ups that collaborate with an incubator have a very high first-year survival rate – nationally, about 87% of them are still in business. What’s more, an average of 84% of the companies that have graduated from an incubator stay in their communities.”
most small businesses fail in the first 2 years because of lack of something on the part of the owner according to one website. Knowledge, money, etc.
Personally if I could waive a magic wand presto chango poof there goes the Fed and EPA and then on to K street and turn those bastards into toads. After that comes the FCC and the FTC. Then I could relax a little bit, but then the IRS is gone and we have a flat tax with no deductions of any kind and if you make under 35k you don’t pay tax at all of any kind.
Then on to privatization of SS. But you cant do all this over night and there are too many people that think that manna comes from government so it will never happen and we are destined to continue cycles of boom and bust with the unproductive rich getting richer and the productive poor (read middle class) getting farther and farther behind.
And all of that is in the name of helping the poor and the children. What a scam, what did Dan Brown say “So great the con of man”.
Rational self interest baby, that is were its at. (I know bad English)
Indentured Servant writes GWMOM- why dont you grow up and join the adult world and quit living in the Nanny State. Sometimes it’s scary to not rely on government for everything but you get over it once you decide to only live for yourself and not for others and expect others to not live for you.
the nanny state?
whatever are you talking about?
I don’t rely on the government for anything that you do not also benefit from.
what parts of government would you like to abolish? police and fire departments, safe roads and waterways, free public libraries? clean air and water, the safe air traffic? public education? the prison system that keeps you safe from criminals and domestic terrorists? do you expect to get medicare someday? a social security check? have parents who receive these entitlements? where do you think they come from if not government.
you may not like my ideas and that’s okay. You may not like me and that’s okay too.
I don’t expect anyone to do anything for me that I can’t do for myself and I have no idea what you mean by living only for myself and expecting others to live for me.
are you hinting that I am on or seeking welfare? food stamps? a government paid for housekeeper o hair stylist?
GMOM:
go reread first off.
Secondly I dont know you so how I can I have an opinion as to wheter or not I like you?
thirdly the private sector can do all those fucntions for less money and probably more efficiently than can the public sector. There are many alternatives to big government. I know it is hard for people on the left to think about the possibility of an alternative to big government, but it is out there. And John Locke and Edmund Burke would probably like it because it sets man free from the tyranny and oppresion caused by big government.
And as puzzling so aptly put it we dont have a free market and havent since around 1913. So none of us alive today really even knows what a free market is all about. Puzzling and I have an idea and we think it would probably be awsome but we cant say for a hundred percent certainty (I hope I am not putting words in your pen puzzling) although human nature is like gravity, drop the ball it hits the ground. So to people are selfish by nature and whatever plays to that tendancy (virtue) will be in sync and not contradictory.
The left thinks that it can remake people in their image, I think you cant change natures laws.
IS writes go reread first off.
thirdly the private sector can do all those fucntions for less money and probably more efficiently than can the public sector. There are many alternatives to big government. I know it is hard for people on the left to think about the possibility of an alternative to big government, but it is out there. And John Locke and Edmund Burke would probably like it because it sets man free from the tyranny and oppresion caused by big government.
Me: Reread? You are generally incomprehensible unless telling people off and/or spouting Glenn Beck nonsense. I did read your post directed to me. I read all of your posts and most parts of this blog every day. It is my only joy. Still, sometimes, and with you it is fairly often, I have no idea what part of neocon fantasyland it is that you adore so much.
are you really saying you want to give police and fire protection over to the private sector? like the military gave huge chunks to KBR who built sinks where the water actually electrocutes soldiers? or who has billed the government (you and I ) for a dining hall it built a year ago, remodeled 6 months ago and is billing for a second remodel. You mean like that?
or do you mean the private health insurance industry that did away with the single payer system of the 50′s and 60′s with its doctor and then insurance company owned HMO’s ? you mean like that? where most doctors I know are working now in private practice and refusing to take insurance at all? And employer sponsored benefits are being transfered in larger and larger percentages to the employees who are not being paid more to get their premiums paid and in many cases are opting out of the insurance system to use their default medical care facility…. the local emergency room? you mean like that private sector?
Why I’ll just bet you like to sit around the fire on cold winter evenings and on the back porch in the summer feeling all mushy and nostalgic for the good old days with Ronald Reagan, the most recent man to be anointed into sainthood by the right.
he was great, wasn’t he? especially when he raised taxes as CA governor and president and pumped money into the military like a body builder on roids. I especially liked his refusal to say the word :AIDS: let alone fund research. I also really liked he way he totally ignored the huge losses of rustbelt jobs causing a tidal wave of homelessness in this country that went unmatched until BushCo came along. His refusal to improve VA benefits, or failing public schools was neat also. But Nancy did look good in her red suits, with her new white house china, like a bobble head on a stick. and don’t get excited about this, but if she could have a kid tomorrow and use its parts to bring Ronnie back to life she would. She’d have conceived, aborted and used fetal brains whizzed around in her cook’s blender if she thought it would cure his Alzheimers and there is something really noble and sweet about that kind of love and I am not being sarcastic about that one part because I know what that kind of love is about.
freedom from tyranny? if you really want to talk about that lets talk about it. but you are going to have to get way more serious.
GMOM:
why is it the left goes apoplectic over some tax cuts and free enterprise? Also name calling, the left loves to do that. Don’t have an argument start name calling. Next I will be called a racist or worse. I have read a lot of these posts too and that is usually how it goes, don’t like someones argument start calling them names. Its very predictable, almost formulaic.
As far as HMO’s are concerned I believe the jackal of the senate Edward Kennedy created those.
And you assume I am pro Bush and pro Reagan without even knowing. Reagan did some good things and Bush did go after the Taliban after 9/11. But Bush turned out to be a pretty bad president on the whole. And Reagan could have been better on a number of issues.
I love the left, the only choice they want is green. Want an SUV cant have one, nuclear power nope, fatty foods no way. School vouchers definitely not, the teachers unions might actually have to perform.
One of the most fundamental freedom is that of being able to buy what you want, when you want and that is what the left wants to deny us all the chance to do and that is not freedom.
Puzzling,
When you blame government for these wrongs there is some modicum of truth. However, when government is controlled by corporate interests, that manage to tweak the system for their benefit, it is not government per se to blame. The blame falls on our political setup that allows politicians to be bought, or need to be bought, to attain office. If we take government completely out of the equation, this same corporate elite will only have more control of our lives. If we could trust the Corporatists to behave in a rational manner, perhaps the dreams of libertarians everywhere could be realized. The problem is that human beings being what they are, the drive towards power, fueled by greed that compels people to reach the top, also keeps them seeking greater power continually. It also makes them jealous of their perogatives and so desirous of keeping the masses in a subservient position.
Government can be a force for good or ill, but it does offer the possibility of redress of the majority of people’s grievances. The kind of “free market” many people idealistically envision, in the end will come to
monopoly and a rigid class system such as feudalism.
IS,
You’ve said it, but unfortunately I’m on a library PC that doesn’t allow me to cut and paste. What you’ve said in effect though if I may interpolate is that most business failure occur from lack of capitalization or
knowledge. I would suggest to you that the main reason is the lack of adequate funding. This indeed is where the problem lies and where your analysis breaks down. Not many people are in a position to garner sufficient capital to establish a viable business.
My father failed in 5 businesses that he established and yet he was intelligent, charismatic and well experienced in his fields of endeavor. In each instance his lack of capital proved ruinous. Your view of things is probably that “that’s how the cookie crumbles,” while my view is that the system is set up to reward those who already have a leg up. For every “American Dream” success story, there are literally tens of thousands of failures.
I’m not saying that people aren’t entitled to the fruits of their success, but what I am saying is that given an unequal playing field, there should exist a viable safety net for the 85% of the people who are not able to make it.
As far as your repeated points about taxation, arguably the greatest financial growth periods in the 20th century occurred during the era of highest taxation of the wealthy. the reason is simple: The masses aren’t being used to prop up the country with their limited funds and consequently they have the extra cash to spend and pump up the economy. This is a fact which you can easily discover, should you wish, but I think you are
realy enamored with your current world view and are loath to question it.
I’ve no doubt you live in a neighborhood where $75 for a
lawn is normal. however, the point I’m making is that therein lies your inability to understand the plight of some hard worker, who did all the right things, but finds themselves out of work because their company was bought up and dismantled by predatory financiers.
As examples i would point out to you Donald Trump. The man who inherited a real estate empire in the beginning of the bubble in Manhattan real estate, made a fortune and then proceeded to go bankrupt in the gambling business because of his own incompetence. This clown though presents himself as a business genius and has books ghost written for him telling people how to make money and a TV show to extol his management style. He is a legend in his own mind. Many, many people who have benefited by virtue of birth, or by being at the right schools have networked themselves to success and believe it is because of their own skills. They then decry as weak those born without their benefits and exhort them to just try harder.
In many ways I’ve been lucky in my life and I certainly was successful in my chosen field. However, I was given a great brain through genetics and was in my younger days tall and handsome. Although I inherited nothing and was orphaned as a teenager, this gifts of genetics helped me succeed, but I’ve never lost sight of the fact that it was all luck of the draw. That is why I can empathize with those who weren’t as lucky and understand that as a society we owe it to them to at least be protected from disaster. You disagree I take it and that is a shame, because i bet that otherwise you’re probably a decent person.
Indentured wrote: why is it the left goes apoplectic over some tax cuts and free enterprise? Also name calling, the left loves to do that. Don’t have an argument start name calling. Next I will be called a racist or worse. I have read a lot of these posts too and that is usually how it goes, don’t like someones argument start calling them names. Its very predictable, almost formulaic.
me: apoplectic? over tax cuts? hardly. if we are going to cut taxes then lets do it fairly and reasonably. lets cut taxes on the middle class. lets cut taxes on the working poor. ok. now that we’ve done that how are we going to pay for government institutions that the right supports like the military? lets say we cut NASA or the FAA.
IS:As far as HMO’s are concerned I believe the jackal of the senate Edward Kennedy created those.
Me: you’d be wrong. the first HMO’s were all doctor owned following the invention of Kaiser Permanente. Ted kennedy had nothing to do with that.
IS And you assume I am pro Bush and pro Reagan without even knowing.
Me: well are you?
IS: Reagan did some good things and Bush did go after the Taliban after 9/11. But Bush turned out to be a pretty bad president on the whole. And Reagan could have been better on a number of issues.
me: what did reagan do that was good? name three things. as for bush going after the Taliban, he did a great job there.
IS: I love the left, the only choice they want is green. Want an SUV cant have one, nuclear power nope, fatty foods no way. School vouchers definitely not, the teachers unions might actually have to perform.
me: I love the left also. I love the left because we champion causes that affect people’s lives in positive ways. want an SUV? fine by me. Spend a bit more and get a hybrid Lexus. You will love yours. I adore mine. Want to live next to Three Mile Island? call me when you buy a home there. fatty foods? sure thing. get as big and fat and disgusting as you can if you want. have a heart attack. better still have three or four. and don’t worry about who will pay for it. Hell I am all for fatty foods. but all things in moderation. moderation. as for school vouchers… they have zero to do with teacher performance in public schools. they are about funding the christian right’s access to have the government, yes say it along with me, the government pay for their kids to get free or subsidized educations in religious schools. expensive ones. some secular ones too. but mainly vouchers came alone around the exact same time that the christian right began complaining that the left didn’t want prayer in public schools and evolution and sex ed out of them and their only option was to pray silently, or around the flag pole before classes or opt out of certain classes or be home schooled or go….. wait for it… here it comes… to expensive parochial schools that the parents could not possibly afford for all 7 kids.
next?
One of the most fundamental freedom is that of being able to buy what you want, when you want and that is what the left wants to deny us all the chance to do and that is not freedom.
Mike S writes: Author: Mike Spindell
Comment:
Puzzling,
When you blame government for these wrongs there is some modicum of truth. However, when government is controlled by corporate interests, that manage to tweak the system for their benefit, it is not government per se to blame. The blame falls on our political setup that allows politicians to be bought, or need to be bought, to attain office. If we take government completely out of the equation, this same corporate elite will only have more control of our lives. If we could trust the Corporatists to behave in a rational manner, perhaps the dreams of libertarians everywhere could be realized. The problem is that human beings being what they are, the drive towards power, fueled by greed that compels people to reach the top, also keeps them seeking greater power continually. It also makes them jealous of their perogatives and so desirous of keeping the masses in a subservient position.
what we allowed was a system where the corporations that should have been supervised by independent agencies but were instead supervised by agencies on their own payrolls. AIG, for instance, was an insurance conglomerate that bought a bank. the bank represented about 1% of its total financial stake but because they had a bank they turned all regulation to this one agency that manages thrifts and S & L’s. That agency,whose name I can’t recall just now…. wait for it… was paid by AIG.
see how the money goes from one pocket to the other? then other investment banks that didn’t like the rating they were getting and paying for, from say Moody’s threatened to take their business across the street to someone else, say, to Standard & Poor to get AAA instead of AA and it gets even worse. The banks are not allowed to carry bonds that have less than a certain rating. so if they lose their rating the banks are legally required to sell their banks. Suddenly everyone is selling, no one is buying. all this was reported on NPR over the past weekend.
IS and Puzzling,
Yes, yes I get that the government played it’s part, I never said that it didn’t. Taking the labels out of what you’re saying: A and B conspired to take advantage of C. Therefore we need to restrict A’s power over C. I agree. My question is still, what about B? Believe it or not, being anti-corporation does not mean you’re pro-government (See Thomas Jefferson).
Also, if the company only sells cars in China, then it should probably move to China to produce them. It would avoid all sorts of tariff’s and other costs that way. Do most companies that move production (or call centers for that matter) overseas suddenly stop selling in the U.S.?
Mr. Mike:
you are wrong on all counts, I want everyone to have less taxes so they have more to put in their pockets. The money is theirs, they earned it. It dosent belong to me or you or puzzling or GMOM.
I wish I would have met your dad, he sounds like a good guy and tough too.
I think the idle rich are full of the stuff that comes out of the south end of a north bound mule and dont disagree with your assesment on that score.
GMOM:
its my money, its not the governments money, end of story. We are being raped by big government.
IS: writes: GMOM:
its my money, its not the governments money, end of story. We are being raped by big government.
what a picturesque response.
again, as I asked before, what parts of government would you like to eliminate ?
Don’t you have a job, IS? Cleaning toilets or something? You seem to have far too much time to post your cr@p online.
hidflect:
I clean toilets at night so I have all day to post pro capitalist musings.
If you want a job send me your resume and maybe I can find a bowl for you to fill.
IS,
I appreciate the words about my father, he was tough but died a 54 because my mother and his dreams had died before him.
Here’s where we differ:
1. Private Industry can do it better and cheaper:
I would really like to see proof of that since I worked for government for 32 years (a reaction to my father perhaps)and we consistently performed our tasks better and cheaper than private industry. In my last 10 years I was the guy who went in and reorganized/remodeled/reconstructed sub Agencies and programs, so I knew how things operated. My wife on the other hand was an executive for a large multi-national. It was amazing to hear her stories on the waste and ineptness there. Beyond that though, being that I was in management and held a BBA from undergraduate work, I have always kept myself well-informed on business matters. when you speak of business efficiency you are talking mythology rather than reality.
2. Taxes are bad as is government:
Our tax system at presents rewards investment and inheritance at the same time it punishes the middle class and the rest on the lower end of the tax scale. It is true, as I previously stated, that in the last century and today the times of greatest American economic growth coincided with the times when the tax rates on the wealthy were highest.
3.”I think the idle rich are full of the stuff that comes out of the south end of a north bound mule and dont disagree with your assesment on that score.”
What you don’t realize is that the CEO’s of most of our largest Corporations and their minions are also like the idle
rich. People bitch when a ballplayer makes $25 million a year for being in the top thousandth of a percent in the world for his skill. Yet until this latest financial disaster most people were uninterested in the fact that some CEO was pulling down $100 million a year, by firing workers, lowering benefits and then destroying the future viability of his corporation. These guys normally aren’t even in the class of being in the top 20% of executives. They fly in private jets, do business on the golf course and at long lunches and dinners in the most expensive restaurants. They too are the “idle rich” and we should tax the hell out of them.
4.”Reagan did some good things”
Ronald Reagan was a figurehead. He was a wholly owned subsidiary of GE and other defense contractors. This is not speculation it is fact. GE literally supported him for many years after his movie career dried up. He was responsible for the greatest rise of taxes in history to pay for a defense budget that was geared to making money for his backers. He sold missiles to the Irani’s and probably worked a deal to prolong the hostage crisis until he was elected. He didn’t bring down the Russians Mikael Gorbachev and the
inability to keep out Western news did. All of our major intelligence organizations knew the Russians were financially collapsing, but the news was kept quiet from the public to keep the defense money flowing. I could go on and on about this clown of a man who was too stupid and later too addled to actually know what a farce he was.
5.”I know it is hard for people on the left to think about the possibility of an alternative to big government, but it is out there. And John Locke and Edmund Burke would probably like it because it sets man free from the tyranny and oppresion caused by big government.”
Locke and Burke were no doubt wise men but Locke died 300 years ago and Burke 200 years ago. The world they wrote about was dominated by Monarchies and had not yet established a viable market system, money system or even undergone the industrial revolution. Burke, died in 1797 was horrified by the French Revolution and felt the American Revolution was a somewhat misguided act by Englishmen, though with some justification. In the era which these two lived the concept of a Republic was really too far out. Neither of these mens’ comments on government can be taken out of context as some conservatives like to do.
The problem is that you really don’t understand what you think of as “people on the Left.” The liberal/conservative model no longer is a valid one. I personally am a pragmatist when it comes to how to solve problems. My interest is in a world that my children and grandchildren can live in and prosper. I believe that every human being has the right to the basics of food, shelter, health care and education. I believe in Free Speech, rather than freedom to purchase. I believe in civil rights in all its’ many forms. I believe in the complete separation of church and state. Finally, I believe that all of humanity needs to evolve and grow into a world of peace and freedom.
You may think that I’m just another “namby-pamby” liberal, but trust me I’m as smart and tough as anybody from the so-called right and I have the life to prove it. The difference is that I have lived my life believing in and trying to emulate Rabbi Hillel’s (and Jesus’) formulations:
“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.”
“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am ‘I’?”
Mr. Mike:
I like this quote from the good Rabbi:
“He who refuses to learn deserves extinction”
But good thoughts about corporate excess.
Disagree about Burke and Locke though, a good idea is a good idea and human liberty is always a good idea.
Your dad was a lucky man to have loved your mother that deeply.
Mike S you wrote: 3.”I think the idle rich are full of the stuff that comes out of the south end of a north bound mule and dont disagree with your assesment on that score.”
What you don’t realize is that the CEO’s of most of our largest Corporations and their minions are also like the idle
rich. People bitch when a ballplayer makes $25 million a year for being in the top thousandth of a percent in the world for his skill. Yet until this latest financial disaster most people were uninterested in the fact that some CEO was pulling down $100 million a year, by firing workers, lowering benefits and then destroying the future viability of his corporation. These guys normally aren’t even in the class of being in the top 20% of executives. They fly in private jets, do business on the golf course and at long lunches and dinners in the most expensive restaurants. They too are the “idle rich” and we should tax the hell out of them.
Just thing morning it was reported that attempts to limit CEO salary/bonus pay for those whose companies are receiving bail-out $$ was too onerous. $750k a year was thought to be way too little and would force these pampered few to seek jobs overseas. I say: Let ‘em go. Show them the door. Today. There are plenty of other qualified leaders and upper level managers who could do better with less and would not balk at a $750K/yr salary until their company was back in the black. as long as we own their companies we ought to have some say in the salaries, hiring and firing of CEO’s
“There are plenty of other qualified leaders and upper level managers who could do better with less and would not balk at a $750K/yr salary until their company was back in the black. as long as we own their companies we ought to have some say in the salaries, hiring and firing of CEO’s”
GWLSM,
This is so true. Most people who rise to the top of any hierarchy are not the most capable, but those most adept at “office politics.” This tends to insure that the greedy and the egotistical assume commands, rather then the best able to lead.
Don’t get me started though because I feel the anger bubble up in me when this topic is discussed and that’s bad for my heart condition. One of the many failures of this system is the use of stock options as compensation. This should be banned. All stock options do is ensure that rather than looking at taking care of a firms bottom line, the Executive
looks at its stock price. This makes short term policies like firing the best people raise the stock price, but destroy the future of the company.
I could detail the many ways that Executive compensation is destructive to business, but I bet you know them all already.
Didnt Clinton cap executive pay? And didnt that cause other methods of compensation to come about.
Even though I believe in free markets I also believe that there are many qualified people to lead large corporations and there is some sort of lemming like mentality when it comes to CEOs. People just blindly follow them even if they dont know shinola.
I bet GMOM and Mr. Mike could run a decent size corp as well as any of the current crop of execs.
Mike raises an excellent point on compensation and incentives.
One way that firms work around the potential stock “pumping” conflict is to have the stock options begin to vest years out so that there is no reward for short-term price changes. This aligns management interest with those of the owners, the stockholders.
Another method is to distribute a moderate level of stock options to working level staff and management. These staff tend to stay for longer and have an strong interest in derailing self-destructive initiatives from senior management. In my experience in the private sector this is actually quite effective.
IS,
When I retired from NYC Government I led an operation of 300+ employees, located in 15 different offices around the City. I had also, in my part time developed a reorganization plan for a medium sized Agency to ensure greater efficiency and savings.
In the 3 years I served in the position I had saved NYC $150 million in sanctions. Yes I could run a company. The thing is while I’m a good leader of people and an excellent analyst, I don’t have the ego or interest to always be on top. I did what I did to support my family, but garnered no real pleasure from the 12 hour days, constant deadlines and the pressure. Perhaps that is why I am now disabled by a heart condition.
Puzzling,
You are right there are ways to work around it, but even long term stock options can be highly beneficial with an early retirement or change of company. The fact is too that while some company’s have adopted this, most of the major ones haven’t, or the policy has been reversed by powerful executives who control the Board.
When I received my BBA degree in the mid 60′s the conventional wisdom taking hold was to go into the business world and rise by moving from company to company to increase position and compensation. This soon became the mantra and the idea of spending one’s career with one company became a thing of the past. This too has led to instability in the business environment.
Mike S writes:
Don’t get me started though because I feel the anger bubble up in me when this topic is discussed and that’s bad for my heart condition. One of the many failures of this system is the use of stock options as compensation. This should be banned. All stock options do is ensure that rather than looking at taking care of a firms bottom line, the Executive
looks at its stock price. This makes short term policies like firing the best people raise the stock price, but destroy the future of the company.
me: stock options are one way that employees can earn bonuses for doing good work and most options are deferred and meted out only after they have been fully vested over a period of years. thank god for them. because my husband had good ones that he was able to cash in when he lost his job we are surviving. of course, we had decided to use those to pay for our kid’s education and that worked for 4 years, but we have 2 years left and that money is being used to sustain us right now.
“me: stock options are one way that employees can earn bonuses for doing good work and most options are deferred and meted out only after they have been fully vested over a period of years.”
GWLSM,
Was your husband a CEO, COO or other top level manager? That makes a difference because in my mind it’s the people at the top, making ridiculous compensation, that ruin the firms. Since you’ve alluded to your current troubles, I think I’m safe to assume that your husband wasn’t one of those making $100 million dollar bonuses. I get bonuses and don’t think they’re wrong per se, but it disturbs me when the people at the highest levels get to set their own compensation. Kind of a fox in the hen house situation.
Mike S writes: GWLSM,
Was your husband a CEO, COO or other top level manager? That makes a difference because in my mind it’s the people at the top, making ridiculous compensation, that ruin the firms. Since you’ve alluded to your current troubles, I think I’m safe to assume that your husband wasn’t one of those making $100 million dollar bonuses. I get bonuses and don’t think they’re wrong per se, but it disturbs me when the people at the highest levels get to set their own compensation. Kind of a fox in the hen house situation.
me: not initially. He was a VP at last… but in 20 years starting out as just a smart guy with no fancy title, he received options for doing good work. options are one way a company can reward employees who are tied to salary grade levels for doing really good work. over the years he got some, sold them when he could and when the company did really well.
no, he was never in the million dollar range. not even half that. he did very well and we considered ourselves quite affluent but compared to the CEO his compensation was an after thought. this person, the various people who sat in that chair over the years, did very very well. their work was hard and they led the company into maturity into the tech sector as a very major entity. finally, profits and board disagreements led to workforce reductions as a CEO they hired took the company from being traded at 80 into the toilet at 20 in about 4 months. they made a comeback but never really regained their place in the industry that they once occupied.
and I was comfortable, sacrificing my professional goals to follow my squeeze as he was moved around the country, until finally at 57 with no work experience in he past 7 years am unable to re-enter due to all kinds of things like licensing requirements.
You make these decision, choices, that you think will lead you down the right path. You think that you can see a few yards off into the future and adjust your route when you are presented with roadblocks. You just never see the day when without warning it all just stops.
and we are the lucky ones. there was a compensation package. not a great one but a decent one. we had savings, not alot but so far it’s been sustaining us. there are millions of others who did not/ do not have this and have lost everything: homes, cars, credit, health insurance. who will speak for them?
there are millions of others who did not/ do not have this and have lost everything: homes, cars, credit, health insurance. who will speak for them?
Me and my once affluent family are one of these who have lost it all.
“finally, profits and board disagreements led to workforce reductions as a CEO they hired took the company from being traded at 80 into the toilet at 20 in about 4 months.”
“there are millions of others who did not/ do not have this and have lost everything: homes, cars, credit, health insurance. who will speak for them?”
GWLSM,
That CEO is the type of business leader I’ve been writing about. I’ll bet his compensation package was better than your
husbands.
When I retired from NYC at age 55, with a nice pension, I was entering into the “golden years” in my profession. This was the time that I could make real money in a social work context. In fact I was being hired to take over a non-profit social services agency, when Congestive Heart Failure hit 5 years ago and work went out the door. My wife who was an Executive in the NYC office of a large multi-national, was abruptly fired in 2000 by a sexist boss, who had taken over and couldn’t relate to women. This woman who had worked so hard and so competently was so affected that we decided she should retire since I was working and had my pension. My health problems struck, I was unable to get disability for 6 months and we also had trouble selling our house, which ate up our savings. We moved to Florida, even though our kids, grandkids and mom-in-law were in NYC, because Florida was a cheaper place to live. The condo we bought has lost about 40% of its’ value, so we have no equity. Nevertheless between my pension and disability we are comfortable enough and so really can’t complain.
My heart goes out to those, like BeulahMan, who have been hit hard by this financial crisis and by the destruction of the “safety net” for all. While they must speak for themselves, we also must speak for them and all of those in the world who are oppressed by greed and authoritarianism.
I’m not what you would call the most pious, or believing of Jews, but I do believe in working to heal the world, Tzedakah and Rabbi Hillel.
MIke S writes: GWLSM,
That CEO is the type of business leader I’ve been writing about. I’ll bet his compensation package was better than your
husbands.
me: better? His feet will never touch the ground. he got over $75 million in compensation and bonuses. lots of it was tax-free. My husband got a check for 6 months salary with another 4 months if he promised not to sue.
Mike: When I retired from NYC at age 55, with a nice pension, I was entering into the “golden years” in my profession. This was the time that I could make real money in a social work context. In fact I was being hired to take over a non-profit social services agency, when Congestive Heart Failure hit 5 years ago and work went out the door. My wife who was an Executive in the NYC office of a large multi-national, was abruptly fired in 2000 by a sexist boss, who had taken over and couldn’t relate to women. This woman who had worked so hard and so competently was so affected that we decided she should retire since I was working and had my pension. My health problems struck, I was unable to get disability for 6 months and we also had trouble selling our house, which ate up our savings. We moved to Florida, even though our kids, grandkids and mom-in-law were in NYC, because Florida was a cheaper place to live. The condo we bought has lost about 40% of its’ value, so we have no equity.
Nevertheless between my pension and disability we are comfortable enough and so really can’t complain.
me: not having alot to complain about is a good thing. feeling grateful for what you have is also a good thing. I don’t remember taking my life for granted, although I must have.
MIke : My heart goes out to those, like BeulahMan, who have been hit hard by this financial crisis and by the destruction of the “safety net” for all. While they must speak for themselves, we also must speak for them and all of those in the world who are oppressed by greed and authoritarianism.
I’m not what you would call the most pious, or believing of Jews, but I do believe in working to heal the world, Tzedakah and Rabbi Hillel.
me: me too.