Pastor Steven Anderson has used his position at Faithful World Baptist Church, in Tempe, Arizona to bring just a little more hate into the world. Pastor Anderson is praying for the death of President Obama and an eternity in hell.
“Nope. I’m not gonna pray for his good. I’m going to pray that he dies and goes to hell. When I go to bed tonight, that’s what I’m going to pray. And you say, ‘Are you just saying that?’ No. When I go to bed tonight, Steven L. Anderson is going to pray for Barack Obama to die and go to hell.”
This is of course not the first death-dealing prayers to be spoken by preachers in the United States, including such prayers for the death of President Obama, judges, or others.
Of course, hate appears to come naturally to the good reverend in Arizona.
“… And yet you’re going to tell me that I’m supposed to pray for the socialist devil, murderer, infanticide, who wants to see young children and he wants to see babies killed through abortion and partial-birth abortion and all these different things — you’re gonna tell me I’m supposed to pray for God to give him a good lunch tomorrow while he’s in Phoenix, Arizona.”
Many have called for his arrest, which would be to combine an abusive use of the law with an abuse of the church.
18 U.S.C. 871 states:
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
However, praying for the death of an individual is a long-accepted part of Christianity and other faiths. An “imprecatory prayer” is usually a reference to Psalm 35 where David calls upon the Lord to kill his enemies. There are a variety of imprecatory psalms containing curses or prayers for the punishment and death for one’s enemies. Psalms 7, 35, 55, 58, 59, 69, 79, 109, 137 and 139.
Such an arrest would be a deprivation of the free of speech and the free exercise of religion, in my view.
This does not mean that this not a matter of legitimate concern or investigation. It is being reported that the Christopher Broughton, the man who recently carried an AR-15 to the speech of President Obama on that trip to Arizona, is a follower of Rev. Anderson.
For the full story, click here.
so…if Obama doesn’t die..does that mean there is no god and the (ahem)good pastor is a fraud?
how disgusting.
Oh come on, the Liberals did this when Bush was in office. I mean those dirty hippies were ALWAYS calling for Bush to die, and I lost count of how many times some tree-hugging granola muncher brought herbal tea to a protest. Everybody know you could very easily brew the tea with something poisonous, dip a blow dart in it and use it to kill somebody. There’s no right to keep and bear tea in The U.S. Constitution.
Kook,
Nah, it just means the God works in mysterious ways. Remember God always answers prayer, sometimes the answer is just “What is wrong with you? No!”
Jonathan, do you have a link to anyone calling for his arrest for saying this? It’s just so clearly not a violation of the statute and so clearly constitutionally protected . .. .
Seems to me it would be more Christian-like for the good pastor to pray that God will enlighten President Obama, and guide his feet to whatever it is the pastor believes in.
On the other hand, I’d just as soon see him thrown in prison for publicly espousing the death of the president to a herd of critters who, if they had the capacity to think for themselves, would have got up and left the church.
C.E.K.
No, it means God’s justice is slow. God’s time is not your time fool! It will happen sometime, and when it does, it will have been solely because God was listening to Pastor. If you can think of some other reason, (like say you think people die of natural causes and such), may God strike you down!
The older I get the more surprised I become. When I was a child I could never imagine a people of faith accepting spiritual guidance from “wolves in sheep’s clothing.” Of course that was way back before the decision in Roe v. Wade precipitated a new theology proclaiming life begins at conception and demanding rights for the unborn.
As a liberal, I was about the only kid on the school bus supporting Adlai Stevcnson, I have always believed that the best antidote to toxic speech is more speech, healthy speech. As a liberal, I have always been contemptuous of sedition laws. I feel a surprise coming on.
I live in Kansas. I know what it is like to wade through a tinder box of angry sentiment. Our “Home on the Range” is home to America’s most outrageous church. The AM band talk radios are flooded with diatribe and pathetic analysis. I have seen otherwise normal men driven to monomania over abortion by those who pretend that their invented theology bears true faith and allegiance to the one true God.
Seriously, one day I had to talk a well propertied, business owning, church going, family man out of bombing an abortion clinic.
The election of President Obama has brought into the open radical elements of the most irrational sectors of our society.
We have alleged Christian ministers calling for the President’s death and damnation when the simple duty of every believer is to love, especially those they consider to be enemies.
We have had a physician assassinated in his church.
We have armed demagoguery at political events by persons who neither properly exercise rights under the First or Second Amendments.
And I am surprised that I am saying this, but I believe we are about to test the “imminent lawless action” standard established by Brandenburg v. Ohio.
Sedition, do we have to protect ourselves from America’s domestic enemies, the self-proclaimed right wing terrorists, by enacting laws against sedition?
This is code rhetoric just like the abortion killers. If A=B and B=C then A should=C. A (all good americans should destroy, kill, eliminate the enemies of America)= “B” (all murderers(ABORTIONISTS), socialist, enemies of America, etc should be killed) and C (Obama is an enemy of America, socialist, unborn baby murderer, etc.).
Is it so hard to decipher what these people are really saying???
it can hardly be seen in that picture but there seems to be a faint “666″ just under the hair line of this so called “pastor”.
“Cris” the AR-15 toting nut job at the Obama town hall is a member of Anderson’s flock:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gun-toting-arizona-protester-belongs
PatriotBoy has been on Anderson’s case for quite awhile in his satiricaly vicious manner. He was doing the ‘Colbert thing’ way before Colbert was and dedicated a blog to it titled Jesus’ General.
Republican supporters would love to see JFK II. Bank on it. Some GOP senators and congressmen also feel this way I’m sure. Aren’t we still fighting two wars? Isn’t there still terrorism around? How can we say such things about the president…oh wait, now I remember, he’s a Democrat.
“Nope. I’m not gonna pray for his good. I’m going to pray that he dies and goes to hell. When I go to bed tonight, that’s what I’m going to pray. And you say, ‘Are you just saying that?’ No. When I go to bed tonight, Steven L. Anderson is going to pray for Barack Obama to die and go to hell.”
Really. Did that come from the Leviticus too?
I’d really like to be there when you meet Jesus, you clown. I suspect he’s not going to be thrilled about it. “Oh my Dad! Peter! Gabriel! Here comes that Anderson guy again . . . help me ditch him. Distract him while I slip out through the cherubim.”
Why is it assumed that ONLY 18 U.S.C. 871 apples to the facts?
Why should “churches” whose traditions include “praying for the death of an individual” be accepted/protected any longer?
Actually, Buddha, I expect that Peter Gabriel would go after him with a Sledgehammer.
Pastor Anderson has just “sinned against his talent.”
This behavior is often fatal.
Did not Jesus pray for the redemption of sinners? Did not Saul covert after prayer and seeing the light? This sounds more like the law of Moses not the Teaching of Jesus. But what am I to say but the following.
Imprecatory prayer is most often used when the criminals are the rich and powerful or corrupt men in government. The prayer asks God to solve the problem and bring the criminal to repentance, or to judgment.
“You be careful with imprecatory prayer. Because if your life is not right. It can have a boomerang effect. You see, as you judge, so shall you be judged. Think about that.
Thank God I’m an atheist
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
~Psalms 55:21
charles grashow 1, August 28, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Thank God I’m an atheist
**********************
Thank goodness you are not a dyslexic. Then you would not believe in Dog and for that I know exists. Or at least what I know to be a dog.
Question to be fielded. If a most of the people believe in a deity of some sort and they meet in church or a tavern, bar or the stock exchange where do agnostics meet?
The reason I ask this, an atheist denys the existence of god? Christian affirm the existence of a god. How do you affirm your belief in agnosticism?
Gyges,
Oh come on, the Liberals did this when Bush was in office. I mean those dirty hippies were ALWAYS calling for Bush to die, and I lost count of how many times some tree-hugging granola muncher brought herbal tea to a protest. Everybody know you could very easily brew the tea with something poisonous, dip a blow dart in it and use it to kill somebody. There’s no right to keep and bear tea in The U.S. Constitution.
*****************************
Yeah and there were no laws against smoking herb on the Washington Mall until Nixon. So go figure that one out.
Ya ever known a hippy or a stoner that was stoned at the time remember what they were doing 5 minutes ago? Thought so or not.
I’d be shocked if he was arrested for threatening the life of the President. The Democrats are terrified of the right wing and probably fear making Anderson a martyr to gun-totin’ “free-speechers”.
People like Attorney General Eric Holder will cynically triangulate the theory that it’s better policy to let him stay free and vilify him. The actual law on the matter probably won’t ever figure in the equation. Such is the cowardly cynicism of the powers that be…
Mike A.,
I wondered if anyone was going to catch that. I didn’t notice until I hit submit and I must confess I had a bit of a laugh on myself and Mr. Gabriel too. While I’ll concede a Sledgehammer is a more angelic weapon than a taser, we should also acknowledge that particular musicians willingness to Shock the Monkey. The Arch-angels proper? Eh, I think a flaming taser isn’t nearly as visual as a flaming sword. Cecile B. DeMille would not approve.
there once was a pastor from tempe
he was dumber than curly and shemp, he
prayed something evil
and told many people,
proof to all that his soul’s empty.
AY,
This is not just a simple prayer to solve a situation. This so-called man of God implores God to kill Obama. This should be investigated by the Secret Service. Especially since one of the idiots who brought a gun to Obama’s speech is a devotee of this alleged minister.
Death in the name of peace is so 1984 doublespeak … “war is peace” …
These folks usually have the facts wrong too.
The Earth is not flat, and it is older than 7,000 years.
“Such evil deeds could religion prompt.
Lucretius (96 BC – 55 BC), De Rerum Natura “
That Lucretius was tough on religion in general, but a very smart guy. This isn’t for mespo because I’m sure he’s probably read it, but if anyone is interested in reading De Rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things) an English translation is available here in a variety of formats:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/785
It is well worth the read.
if this is true, that guy is a rectal towel.
If he is convinced that god is real and he anticipates results from his prayer, does that make is suddenly illegal? Even more, if someone else gets the call from God to kill the President, what does that do to the status of reverend?
Anon writes: Question to be fielded. If a most of the people believe in a deity of some sort and they meet in church or a tavern, bar or the stock exchange where do agnostics meet?
The reason I ask this, an atheist denys the existence of god? Christian affirm the existence of a god. How do you affirm your belief in agnosticism?
me: we don’t have meetings. we don’t wear T-shirts or have club issued bumper stickers. we look just like ordinary people only just a bit more attractive since we don’t worry about second comings or gods retribution or sin or stuff like that which tends to age people in horrible ways.
there is no agnostic belief or atheist belief, I speak as an atheist who has taken her “not quite sure” stance into the end zone of ” uh uh. no way.”
we go to sleep easily and awaken refreshed. we don’t hide behind false morality. and we contribute to the economy in ways believers can’t because we don’t tithe anywhere which gives us that extra 2-10% income to blow on vacations, shoes, plastic surgery and fancy cars.
btw. we like bars and don;t mind sharing them with the believers.
The best course of action here should be obvious: Declare pastor Anderson and his flock enemy combatants and use extraordinary rendition to grab them and hustle them off to an offshore prison (Gitmo would be fine). Once there, since the pastor was inciting violence (by God, no less) against Americans (Vince Treacy having ably shown on this very blog that President Obama is a natural born citizen of the USA) and he and his flock could have operation knowledge of impending terrorist attacks against the US, they should be subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques until they are too mentally compromised to talk (or they are dead). I mean, don’t these people always ask WWDD? (What Would Dick (the war criminal) Do)
AY,
I’m thinking of founding an atheist church – we can sing hymns to the non-existence of god, preach sermons about how an enlightened moral code is based on philosophy not religion, and read from Lucretius. Oh, and collect money – it wouldn’t be a real church if you didn’t collect money…
Pardon me,
Did you really have to resort to limerick?
IS,
Do you really have any doubt that this is true?
Now what was I doing 5 minutes ago…
GWLSM,
I feel like we should have some inane atheist dogma just to show those churchers that we can believe in stupid things too…
AY,
Agnostics can meet to affirm their lack of belief.
Slarti-
Sorry, but I’ve been with 700+ first and second graders all week.
It would be a blow to free speech and freedom of religion to arrest—or even investigate—this obnoxious preacher now. Let him spew his ignorant, evangelical hatred and if at some point he calls on his flock of Christian soldiers to kill Mr. Obama before Easter—with direct specificity—or if the pastor states that he is going to kill the president before next Christmas, or with similar specifics, then 18 U.S.C. 871 should be invoked.
However, if the preacher simply states that after hearing gawd’s soft and tender voice in his head commanding ‘death to the darkie!’ that he directly told the devil, an angel, the Easter Bunny, and Cupid, slinging arrows to kill Obama by next Tuesday in the Wal-Mart parking lot, then leave the fool to his fantasy proselytizations of his faith/political nexuses.
Steven Anderson, is living proof that bestiality will spawn an ass.
Slarti,
You mean like the Church of Atheism? http://firstchurchofatheism.com/
I get what they’re saying, but calling it a church is just dumb.
AY,
There are as many ways to not believe in god(s) as there are ways to believe.
slart writes: I feel like we should have some inane atheist dogma just to show those churchers that we can believe in stupid things too…
just because we don’t believe in god doesn’t mean that we can’t be morons.
how’s that for stupid?
Perhaps God will reward the good pastor by making his prayer come true … only not to our President but for the man who prays for our President’s death.
And btw wingnuts, no Christian pastor ever prayed for the death of a president. No matter how despicable they were.
Carol writes: And btw wingnuts, no Christian pastor ever prayed for the death of a president. No matter how despicable they were.
why Carol, dear, just who are you calling wingnuts?
and why can’t a christian pastor pray for the death of a president? because you say so because it embarrasses you to be a christian when one of your own does stuff like this?
just to be clear, faith does not exclude hatred.
never did. never will.
Slarti:
I did not have time to listen to the video. Yes it is true. That rhetoric is a “tad” bit out of hand. I wonder if he has a large congregation? I hope not, he should resign and go into the mountains for a few years for personal reflection.
Oh well, those crazy christian conservatives, what are you going to do with them? You cant live with em and you cant kill em.
Hopefully the “good” reverends “prayer” will fall on deaf ears.
As an agnostic, I have often thought about forming an organized association whereby fellow non-believers can gather on a weekly basis to affirm our non-belief in a higher deity, but I could never get my mind to the point where I could fully commit to the idea that it was the right thing to do.
. . . or I could just join the Unitarian Church. (snark)
With the looks and a brain like Mr. Anderson’s, no wonder the only job he could find was one as a Baptist preacher. He should pray hard for gawd to improve his lack of personal attributes…
Brothers and Sisters of all Races and Creeds, we will hold a special membership enrollment this Second Sunday of the First Monday for new members.
The purpose of the enrollment drive is to convert those to our way of life. You don’t have to believe to become a member. This is your choice. Seating will be limited to the first 30 thousand paying $50.00 enrollment and membership fees to join. There is a one time processing fee of $125.00.
I hope to see you soon as I believe that you will not feel as fleeced. We are open to suggestions at anytime. We will have a special box for the $25.00 suggestions; $50.00 suggestions $75.00 and $1000.00. Of course with all we will read according to the box that has the least suggestions first.
It is Our Divine belief that we have no deity to follow. Please make time to learn about the undivine.
The Very Most Reverend of Agnosticism
gocart mozart 1, August 29, 2009 at 6:22 pm
. . . or I could just join the Unitarian Church. (snark)
*********************
That is bad. Good but bad.
Over at BBC, criminal psychologist Dr David Holmes examines the telephone interview given by alleged kidnapper Phillip Garrido. While the nature of Garrido’s purported crime is far different from Anderson’s stupidity, they both have religion in common. An interesting read:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8226329.stm
Pastor and his ilk have no idea how good they have it. Just imagine, for a moment, how the FBI would behave if Pastor were black; if the teabaggers were as well, and threatening armed resistance against the state. Can anyone really think that they would be treated any better than the Panthers?
One of the great things about this site is that is brings together Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics and, occasionally, a member of the Muslim faith. Most of you know that I was raised as a Catholic and that I was a Jesuit seminarian for a time. That background has naturally shaped me in ways which I probably don’t fully understand myself, and it certainly impacts what I have to say on this subject. I finally listened to the You Tube recording of Rev. Anderson’s “sermon.” It is a prime example of what modern fundamentalism represents: a hate-filled, intellectually arid form of theological know-nothingism. Rev. Anderson is a disciple of the anti-intellectual movement that is Christian fundamentalism, people who have no understanding of or interest in history, theology, psychology, anthropology, geology or any of the other sciences. He is obviously unschooled in any of the biblical languages and his notions of the teachings of the New Testament are themselves a testament to his own ignorance. The simple fact is that for those who call themselves Christian, the central message of the New Testament is that the greatest commandment is love. That message supersedes the Old Testament for the believer. That central message is universally ignored by fundamentalists because they cannot reconcile its implications with their beliefs. They cannot reconcile its implications with their views of man and society. They cannot reconcile its implications with their vision of the United States as the symbol of God’s work on earth. They are vicious in their hatred and terrified of what they do not understand. They are a pox on humanity and a stain on the values of our nation. Rev. Anderson needs to be called out as the vile, pernicious influence that he is.
Mike A,
Is not the Baptist a separate and distinct religion based upon its date in historical times similar to problems of dissatisfaction with Rome? If memory serves correctly it was the Baptist that were in Armenia (Anabaptist), then the Episcopal, Methodist (Salvation Army), Lutheran and then Presbyterian which separated from Rome? Not necessarily in that order.
I did a stint of about 14 months in the ESSW in Austin, before figuring that there was more politics in the church than in the legislature. More Egos to stoke if you want the right assignment. Then off to Law School I went.
Mike Appleton:
“One of the great things about this site is that is brings together Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics and, occasionally, a member of the Muslim faith.”
You’re only young once, but you can be Jungian forever.
Mike A:
“They are vicious in their hatred and terrified of what they do not understand. They are a pox on humanity and a stain on the values of our nation. Rev. Anderson needs to be called out as the vile, pernicious influence that he is.”
*************
Agreed my friend, but he is the logical extension of a belief system that is so muddled and contradictory that most any vice can march under it’s banner. Theological debates remind me a parsing pepper for fly specks: tedious, irritating , and ultimately pointless.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/15/arts/15abroad.html?hp
Well, gee whiz, the Plutocratic Party, calling itself Republican, owns the flag, patriotism, the elements of the military-industrial-media complex, the Congressional members of said Party, and is supported by Jesus according to all the rightwing Stooges who are dedicated to the comfort and all but tax-free existence of the plutocrats. So how can anyone complain about this Baptist pastor, who after all is with the leading denomination of the Southern precincts of Dupedom South, which is the ultimate source of what is best for the Country?
You know DAMN WELL that if he was saying George W. Bush instead of Obama, he would of had a personal visit by the Secret Service by now.
Mespo,
Theological debates remind me of the discussions I always overheard from my D&D playing room-mate and her friends.
Mespo,
I should say I didn’t mean to imply that you’d ever hang around the kind of people that would debate D&D rules, but I’m pretty sure at the very least Slarti will understand that comparison.
Gyges,
I’m not sure I like what’s being implied here. What do you mean I failed my saving throw? You didn’t even have the correct components to cast that spell – and I get +2 to all saves against lawyers…
Slart,
Sorry, I only use the King James, I mean 4th edition rules.
Gyges,
Jesus is pretty badass in those, isn’t he?
The hate speech of Mr. Anderson reflects a sociopath’s complete lack of conscience. He is also the kind of narcissist, who through self-rightousness (not, rightousness) hate speech and the pulpit, incites others to violence. It is precisely because of people such as Mr. Anderson and his followers, that All firearms, knives, and “box cutters,” must be banned from all public or private events where our President and our other elected officials are present. The only persons who should be allowed firearms at any events where elected officials are present, are the police, the secret service and the F.B.I. Furthermore, if there is any surveillance of American citizens, it should NOT be surveillance of protesters whose free speech and right to assembly is guaranteed under our Constitution, but it is rather citizens such as Mr. Anderson and his ilk who promote violence through hate speech who are the ones that should be watched carefully by our law enforcement agencies. Additionally, any half-way rational person who has ever read the New Testament would clearly know that Mr. Anderson is not a Christian, just by the hateful words he speaks. I could say I’m the Queen of England; however many times I say it — it does not make me the Queen of England. Likewise, just because Mr. Anderson says he’s a Christian and has the Word of God in him, doesn’t make it true, no matter how many times he says it. Apparantly, Mr. Anderson skipped the parts of the New Testament, where Jesus talked about love. Certainly, Mr. Anderson never read St. Paul’s definition of Christian love. I’m afraid, Mr. Anderson is a very, very deluded man, who should do his homework–actually read the New Testament–before he opens his mouth to preach.
Slarti,
Level 12 Necromancer.
Her Royal Majesty Earthdreams,
I think that you will find very few if any Christians among the so called ‘christian right’. I am privileged to have some very devout Christians among my family and they are disgusted by people like this cloaking their hate in the trappings of Christianity.
Gyges,
Level 16 Psychohistorian.
p.s. I am pleased in a major geek way that the word ‘psychohistorian’ is in my browser’s spelling dictionary;-)
earthdreams writes: Additionally, any
half-way rational person who has ever read the New Testament would clearly know that Mr. Anderson is not a Christian, just by the hateful words he speaks. I could say I’m the Queen of England; however many times I say it — it does not make me the Queen of England. Likewise, just because Mr. Anderson says he’s a Christian and has the Word of God in him, doesn’t make it true, no matter how many times he says it.
of course he is christian. you can’t deny him his faith because other things he believes are embarrassing to you. faith, as they say, is the true shibboleth. if he, and I believe he does, believe that jesus christ is his savior and he is saved by grace it does not also mean that he can’t be a hater.
christians love the sinner, do they not?
they love the imperfect.
this man is exactly as christian as he says he is, claims to be.
your analogy is flawed for no amount of faith can make you queen of england and by faith alone christians are judged.
Slart,
I thought we were playing D&D, not Rifts. O.k. I’m done geeking out.
GWLawSchoolMom,
In the Christian Bible, the sinner is loved as much by God as is the sage. However, the sinner first has to acknowledge that s/he has sinned, and then begin the process of repentance. It is through the process of repentance that enables one to see not only the sin but its roots, and so begin to understand how much harm sin causes in the world. One who refuses to see their own sin, refuses the grace that God is giving them. “You shall know them by their works,” Jesus said. A “Christian” preacher who uses hate speech and wishes for the destruction of another human being, reveals that his works are works of hate, which belie his delusional state — that he is a Christian. Yes, indeed, he may shout from the highest hilltops that he is a Christian and is “saved” merely because he claims to have faith in Jesus. That’s such a shallow understanding of what faith is. Just because he claims he is a Christian does not make him so. I’m afraid it is not that simple.
Earthdreams:
“Additionally, any half-way rational person who has ever read the New Testament would clearly know that Mr. Anderson is not a Christian, just by the hateful words he speaks.”
**************
And anyone who as has read the Old Testament would invariably conclude that he is, indeed, very Christian.
Mespo,
And anyone who as has read the Old Testament would invariably conclude that he is, indeed, very Christian.
****************************************
That is easy for a civilized person to state, however I would say that in the old books found in the bible, they would not even acknowledge any other faith but what was in front of them. That is why the pagans were easy to convert. Plurality of Deities.
earthdreams writes: In the Christian Bible, the sinner is loved as much by God as is the sage. However, the sinner first has to acknowledge that s/he has sinned, and then begin the process of repentance. It is through the process of repentance that enables one to see not only the sin but its roots, and so begin to understand how much harm sin causes in the world. One who refuses to see their own sin, refuses the grace that God is giving them. “You shall know them by their works,” Jesus said. A “Christian” preacher who uses hate speech and wishes for the destruction of another human being, reveals that his works are works of hate, which belie his delusional state — that he is a Christian. Yes, indeed, he may shout from the highest hilltops that he is a Christian and is “saved” merely because he claims to have faith in Jesus. That’s such a shallow understanding of what faith is. Just because he claims he is a Christian does not make him so. I’m afraid it is not that simple.
gee, thanks for the lesson.
but you miss the point. it is too easy for christians to say that so-and-so can’t be a real christian because they say and do stuff that is embarrassing to you. what makes this pastor a christian is not that he says he is one, although that is good enough for me and apparently for him but that he believes that jesus died on the cross for his sins and then rose from the dead and that humans are saved by grace and all their sins are forgiven. faith, not works, is the guidepost for protestant beliefs. catholics add works to this.
this guy is not catholic.
so while you may not want to sit next to this guy in church or attend services in his house of worship, you also do not get to decide that he can’t be a real christian.
real christians, like real jews and real muslims and real hindus do and say all kinds of terrible stuff. if you are looking for perfection in others you will be disappointed and guilty of sin yourself.
AY writes: That is why the pagans were easy to convert.
once Paul made it unnecessary for pagans to first become jews it was really easy. initially, pagans had to become jews, males had to get circumcised and all had to keep laws such as kashruth. paul decided that they could skip all that and go right to belief in jesus.
once you believe in one god it isn’t that hard to believe in others.
there are some fascinating combinations of older religions and catholicism, like that day of the dead stuff practiced in mexico and elements of santeria practiced in the carribean and africa.
GWLawSchoolMom,
I agree with what you have stated in the conversion process and it was (or is my understanding) that it was the immersion of oneself into the faith, where one could then become a “Jesusite” (Christian). Christ literally means anointed, so who anointed this person, they call Jesus. That is the dividing issue. True Catholicism is closer to the practices of Judaism, with the exception that the messiah already came and will return.
______
“there are some fascinating combinations of older religions and catholicism, like that day of the dead stuff practiced in mexico and elements of santeria practiced in the carribean and africa.”
*******************
Not all Catholics pay homage to Rome. The Santeria certainly do not. I cannot find the book that I have which show the Catholics which do not subscribe alliance to Rome. I think it has more to do with “Who Holds the Money than religiosity anymore.
AY writes: True Catholicism is closer to the practices of Judaism, with the exception that the messiah already came and will return.
______
not in any universe I live in. there are scores of major differences beyond the divinity of christ and the second coming stuff.
transubstantiation springs to mind. so does intercessionary prayer. confession. sin. heaven and hell. mary. ok so the pope wears a beanie that resembles a yarmulke…
It is really unnecessary to get into a debate about who is or is not a “real” Christian. The bottom line is that Pastor Anderson graduated high school, memorized some verses in King James and was transformed into a “religious” leader. That is apparently sufficient education for certain fundamentalists. Frankly, I demand more preparation than that from my florist.
Mike A writes: It is really unnecessary to get into a debate about who is or is not a “real” Christian. The bottom line is that Pastor Anderson graduated high school, memorized some verses in King James and was transformed into a “religious” leader. That is apparently sufficient education for certain fundamentalists. Frankly, I demand more preparation than that from my florist.
since I’ve been one of the main players in this conversation, let me respond thusly: I could care less who calls themselves what. seriously. there are times when people become wildly offensive while wearing any number of religious and secular costumes. religion is meant to guide its adherents toward becoming better people, at least that’s how I read their various handbooks. i dont know if this anderson guy went to pastor school or not. he has a pulpit and his congregants choose to put their asses in his church every sunday. either he reflects their choices and ideas or he doesn’t. clearly he is christian enough for his congregants and for his own internal compass even if we don’t care for the direction it points.
This seems to me to be a semantic issue due to using the same term to denote people who profess that Jesus Christ is their savior (or just claim to be christian) and people who live their lives in accordance with the teachings of Jesus Christ as they understand him. And while it is possible that pastor Anderson is so twisted that he truly believes that Jesus would endorse his hatemongering, I think that it’s more likely that the trappings of Christianity are just a convenient disguise to allow him to spread his hateful ideas.
slarti writes: And while it is possible that pastor Anderson is so twisted that he truly believes that Jesus would endorse his hatemongering, I think that it’s more likely that the trappings of Christianity are just a convenient disguise to allow him to spread his hateful ideas.
i can’t remember who said this but it was in response to some english-only legislation proposal. it was a christian tv pastor: If english was good enough for jesus christ it’s good enough for you.
i really did hear this.
GWLSM said:
i can’t remember who said this but it was in response to some english-only legislation proposal. it was a christian tv pastor: If english was good enough for jesus christ it’s good enough for you.
Sigh.
“Some people have a way with the English language. Some people have not way.” – Steve Martin
Slarti wrote:
This seems to me to be a semantic issue due to using the same term to denote people who profess that Jesus Christ is their savior (or just claim to be christian)and people who live their lives in accordance with the teachings of Jesus Christ as they understand him. And while it is possible the pastor Anderson is so twisted that he truly believes that Jesus would endorse his hatemongering, I think it is more likely that the trappings of Christianity are just a convenient disguise to allow him to spread his hateful ideas.
Exactly!
Jesus, the anointed Son of God, in Matthew 5, ushered in the new Covenant from God. He stated that we should love our enemies, bless them and pray for them. David’s prayers are from Old Testament. We are living in the Dispensation of Grace, not Law. You will be expelled from your pulpit, because you do not represent God. God is not dealing with us with wrath, but with Grace, the unmerited favor of God; why, because he loves us all, even you, hateful one. God’s nature is Agape Love, not hatred.
Your own evilness that you are teaching regarding God’s servant
will become your own prophecy. You are speaking your own
condemnation. You will reap what you sow. Vengeance belongs to the Lord, not to you. God will judge everybody. Who made you God. You need to repent and ask God for forgiveness.
You are not a Pastor from God, you are a messenger from the Devil hmself. You hate President Obama because God made him to be a black man. It is God who has made us, and not we ourselves. You are a false teacher and should be exposed.
Prophet A.W. Wicker
You are the blind, leading the blind and they will all fall in the ditch. Satan comes as an angel of light. He is the father of all liars. In Revelation, all liars are going to the lake of fire. Read it. I will prophesy that you will have trouble sleeping, eating, poor relationships, etc and there will be no peace for you until you repent, be born again and politically apologize for your sinful rhetoric. My prayer for you is that God will bless you. He tells us to bless our enemy.
Perhaps, you don’t believe in the anointed Son of God, Jesus Christ. Go to the New Testament and read about who God gave spiritual authority to. Go to the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
written by Apostle John.
You are an ignorant and unwise person. I feel sorry for your future as a leader of blind sheep.
Rev. Dr. A.W. Huguley, Agape Ministries of Reconciliation.
Mr. Anderson,
I do not know what God you serve it must be the Prince of Darkness. I do pray for any members that worship under your teaching, because the only place you can lead them is straight to hell. I think the only person that is going to hell is you. your a very ignorant person, May God have mercy on your twisted mind.
@KEN, IT’S NO LONGER FREEDOM OF SPEECH WHEN YOU
PUBLICLY PRAY FOR THE U.S. PRESIDENTS DEATH
JUST BEFORE HE VISITS YOUR CITY…….
YOU MUST BE ONE GLORIOUS IDIOT !!!
God only answers prayers according to his divine will and purpose. Since God is a God Love and is not punishing anyone during this dispensation of Grace. Evil men and women are making evil decisions and comments regarding this man of God, Pres. Obama. I feel sorry for them. Vengeance belongs to God only.
In the Book of Revelation,we find that the Wrath of God will be revealed upon all ungodliness. Thank God we are not there yet. However, as a phophet of God, I speak that this pastor has spoken his own condemnation. He will soon reap what he is sowing. His name is not in the Book of Life and will go to to the Lake of Fire. If you don’t know about the Book of Life, go to the Book of Revelation.
President Obama is a chosen man of God and the Bible states that no one should touch any annointed man or woman of God and never speak, say or, do his prophets any harm”. It is a warning from God Almighty. This pastor and anyone else who thinks that God would dare honor such a fool’s word is a heretic and knows nothing about God. He is a fool and anyone who believes his rhetoric and heresy is a fool also. The fool has says in his heart there is no God and fools refuse wisdom and knowledge.