There is an interesting criminal and torts case out of Georgia. Roger Stephens, 61, is accused of slapping a 2-year-old child across the face when she would not stop crying. That is bad enough, but the child was not his.
The mother told police that her child was crying in a Stone Mountain Wal-Mart when Stephens, 61, walked up and declared “if you don’t shut that baby up, I will shut her up for you.” When the child continued to cry, the mother said that in a different aisle Stephens grabbed her and slapped the child across the face four or five times. She says that Stephens then told her, See, I told you I would shut her up,.”
A bystander then stepped forward and grabbed Stephens and held him for police. Stephens reportedly apologized to the mother after police arrived, but it still constitutes a classic crime as well as a tort of assault and battery.
He has been charged with felony cruelty to children.
Wrong -yes. Felony -No. If the mother was busy talking on her cell phone -Drop the charges.
FMS,
Right, because children should be punished for their parents’ behavior. That makes perfect sense.
I also think that I should have the right to kick anybody’s dog if I see them spitting their gum on the sidewalk.
Someone please slap fms.
Kinda acts like a troll as in Troll Classic℠ mode. Well . . . to his credit he did stop short of eating the child, but nonetheless. I am uncertain if he consumed any unwary nearby billygoats based on the facts as presented, but I suspect any capra aegagrus within arms length would have been in mortal danger.
Kinda looks like a troll too if you are going by the grumpy/under the bridge model. I’m betting that’s not just his mugshot face either. Slap some horns and make his complexion slightly more green-gray, no need to photoshop much more than that and you get the whole effect. Maybe trollism is a recessive trait. (We should be so lucky.)
Trolls, much like their distant peaceful and playful cousin the sasquatch, are rarely seen in nature preferring a life in the shadows. I tell people about them all the time, but people think they are an urban myth.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Coincidence or proof of troll life?
Cryptozoologists want to know.
fms:
it wasnt even his child, I dont know about you but if someone that I did not know slapped my child 3 or 4 times, I would be all over them like a pit bull on a toddler (apologies to pit bulls, it is a favorite expression of my sister).
I am not a lawyer but I think assault is warrented.
On a more paternal note, I’ll have to agree with Byron on that one. A stranger striking my child would have a lot more to be concerned about than his impending arrest. Like internal bleeding. Don’t mess with a man’s kids or his dog and not expect a throw down. This is a law that transcends all written law going as far back as Hammurabi. If you doubt this, here’s a cinematic lesson for you:
Ol’ Roger better be glad Dad wasn’t around.
Buddah:
Although I haven’t seen this yet,I remeber you were talking about the movie,I came across this:
Alien Nation
District 9, the new blockbuster film, was inspired by a very real South African disaster, District Six.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/213805
Is it just me or does he look like a baby slapper?
I laugh when I think about whether or not it would have been my wife and child and I guarantee you she would have had him in the floor beating the snot out of him.
The largest disagreement that my wife (the mother of 2 of my children)had was when I slapped my daughter on the ass for standing up in the shopping cart (seat) Emergency Departments get such cases where children hurt themselves. She was worried because of the “potential perceived abuse”. I told her that if more parents took responsibility for the actions of there children that the criminal court would not be so full of children not knowing how to act in public.
Now if someone has slapped my child, they had better find a hole to die in. I’d beat the shit out of that clown so hard that he’d wished that he’d never been born. That is wrong, now should it be a felony? I do not know, misdemeanor? maybe but deferred.
With the economy the way it is and people are already edgy, the mother should have been paying attention to her child. Was the child in a aisle where the mother could not see her? This is not clear from the post. If so, I’d be worried about my child being stolen.
A sweet, gentle,and kindly visage if ever I have seen one. Were he my client, he’d grow a beard.
His fifteen minutes,The inmates will have “FUN”with this guy.
I kicked a kid once because he wouldn’t shut the hell up in a store, and I was trying to talk on my cell phone. He cried out in pain and ran away shrieking. When his mother came to confront me, I just denied everything and got upset at her for even suggesting I would do such a thing. Then I looked at the kid and gave him an evil grin.
Kids are spoiled brats these days. They need to learn DISCIPLINE. Giving a kid a “TIME OUT” isn’t going to teach him anything. It’s stupid. Whatever happened to the good old days when kids behaved themselves in public and parents were RESPONSIBLE for their kids’ behavior?
No, I never really kicked a kid. And yes, this guy was totally out of line for slapping someone else’s 2 year old – but I’m telling you, so many kids (older than 2 obviously) are way out of control and the parents don’t do a damned thing about it. Then the kids become teenagers who feel entitled to everything and don’t understand boundaries. Is THIS the next generation? Buncha selfish whiners who expect everyone to be at their beck and call? Not only do the kids piss people off, but their parents piss people off too, so it’s no wonder that someone like this guy did what he did. Although – why didn’t he just go somewhere else in the store if he was so bothered by crying? It’s a big store!
People… a completely stranger slapped someone else’s kid IN THE FACE 4 or 5 times. I don’t care how spoiled the kid is… if a stranger slapped my kid in the face… he wouldn’t live to tell about it.
I had 3 kids. They are all grown now. None was ever disciplined. None was ever a shrieky, yelling monster. I talked to my children. I listened when they spoke. it really is that simple, folks.
Anon Yours, there is no need to slap a kid for doing what kids do. A hand on each arm and a “Whoa partner, that’s a fast fall” is all that is needed as you help the kid sit down. Slapping is a very, very bad way to teach a kid about the dangers of the world. These are highly trainable little people who want to please us – but not after we slap them into submission.
I sure do hope this POS sits for at least a year in jail. What a creep. How dare him! He should have to compensate by having to work for the rest of his miserable life and provide her college tuition as punitive damages! I hope he rots!
I’m shocked by the lack of support for my dog kicking idea.
How come its always white people in the news treating their own and others kids badly?
Gyges, I’ll lay this one you since you were the first to respond to my post. Did I say the guy was wrong? Of course I did. I would probably have beat the crap out of him too if he touched my child. Does what he did rise to the level of a felony? No it doesn’t. You know it doesn’t and so does everyone else. If you do think it rises to the level of a felony, maybe you should discuss felonies with the professor. If these were four or five adult style slaps the child would have more than a little redness on the face. What was the mother doing while he child was screaming? We don’t know, but if she was too busy talking on her cell phone to take care of her child, I would recommend dropping the charges to teach the mother that she does have a responsibility, and talking on the phone isn’t it.
the guy was completely out of line, but there is huge issues with kids who don’t know boundaries and what they can and cannot do in public. its a bloody shame going to the supermarket and seeing these out of line children, grabbing everything they can, messing aisles up and their parents doing jack shit, and even being offended and pissed off when you confront them about the misbehavior of their children. i worry for future generations, but slapping someone else’s kids is not the way to go. i don’t believe it should be a felony though.. seems kind of severe.
Two observations:
1. I suspect that this gentleman learned how to shut kids based upon the example of his own parents. His visage does not suggest a happy person.
2. He is undoubtedly heterosexual, meaning that he is qualified to adopt in all 50 states.
To those who say “It shouldn’t be a felony” and suggest that since it was only 4-5 harmless slaps that it should be a lesser charge, you don’t understand the purpose of that law and other VICTIM-specific laws. The exact charges will be something for the DA to decide but if you are really confused about severity of a charge related to a victim-specific crime, a personal demonstration might be valuable. First, find a police officer and slap him (or her) a few times with an open hand. Make sure you do not hurt the police office. Then say “Sorry!” and see what happens.
FMS,
I wasn’t talking about the felony part of your statement. I was talking about, “If the mother was busy talking on her cell phone -Drop the charges.”
You’re excusing violence against a child based on an unwarranted assumption about a part of the woman’s parenting style you don’t agree with. That’s crap. It’d be crap if the woman was on the phone, but it’s especially crap since you have no idea about what actually happened.
Ever wonder why Palin’s still got a chance at the White House????
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com
You can thank me for the time you waste on this site later.
So what? The kid had it coming. He should have kicked the Mom for not taking the whining brat out of the store. Why do breeders think that everyone should be subjected to the horrible noise of a shrieking child? My favorite is the Ahole parent who takes their crybaby out to a restaraunt. I don’t care if it’s Applebees or the Outback or Walmart, nobody should be subjected to the crys of whining child, even though this was a 2year old not a baby. Good work buddy! You did what I always have wanted to do, but did’nt for fear of arrest.
He is stupid enough to have his information listed publicly, somebody should teach how it feels to be a powerless victim.
Roger P Stephens
3036 Deshong Dr
Stone Mountain, GA 30087-4116
(770) 413-9373
s,
So the only thing keeping you from striking a child, let alone one not your own, is fear of arrest?
Your mom must be so proud of you.
gyges, I guess you didn’t see the word “if” before I made that statement.
IF you hit someone elses child; you should be arrested.
oops. did I just accuse of you of hitting someone elses child, or did I, like i did above, make an associated statement without implying anything?
When I was growing up I had a very healthy fear of my father. He is still a pretty large man with a short fuse, but with that being said, he never once laid a hand on me. My father took a different approach and know looking back I think it worked much better. Living on 22 acres we always had much work to do, so if I ever screwed up I had to spend hours working on our property. On top of that I would get grounded for weeks at a time, confined to my room and the only thing I was allowed to do was read. Another tactic of his was to make me write ungodly amounts of sentences. I recall one time when I was 12 and he told me to do my laundry when I got home from school, instead I went to a friends house. When I got home he informed me that I was grounded until i produced 5000 sentences reading “I will take more initiative when it comes to my responsibilities in this household.” Looking back on it I would have rather had a whippin. The pain only lasts for 15-20 minutes, much shorter than the pain felt in my wrist. My father raised me by himself after my mother left him when he was 20, still surprises me to this day that he did such a good job being a kid raising a kid.
FMS,
I understand that there is a specific set of circumstances that have to be met before you’re calling for the charges to be dropped. My problem is that the circumstances you outlined don’t in anyway justify slapping a child.
One doesn’t hit a child because the mother is behaving badly for the same reason I don’t kick a dog when I see their owner littering.
Just to make sure you don’t try and back peddle the following quotes are from two separate comments you made:
“If the mother was busy talking on her cell phone -Drop the charges.”
“We don’t know, but if she was too busy talking on her cell phone to take care of her child, I would recommend dropping the charges to teach the mother that she does have a responsibility, and talking on the phone isn’t it.”
YES!
BUY THAT MAN A BEER!!!!!
WooHoo!
This world of parenting is for the birds.
Some kids have to know that wrong is wrong and there are consequences for bad behavior. Maybe the mother needs a paddlin’ too.Raise respectful kids,,,,, Don’t abuse them,,,, teach them. Some kids don’t need but just a wisper. Other kids need a good ole’ fashioned butt whoopin’ at the wood shed. Let the kid decide what they want. My kids were amazingly quick studies. My kids were and are great to take into public. I gaurantee this old man wouldn’t touch my kids, their mom and I RAISED our kids. We worked at being good parents.
I see too often those screaming kids throwing a tantrum on the floor because they don’t get what they want. I say lets beat the parents for having kids, obviously they are just breeding stock and not parents.
Raise your kids you lazy sods.
His mistake is that he slapped the wrong person. He should have slapped the mother for I’m sure was acting like nothing was wrong, especially since I doubt he would have made a comment to the mother in the first place if she was actively trying to take care of the kid.
Well at least there is someone with common sense who know how to take care of a crying baby in Walmart. The mother should have left the store and gave the kid a time out, but no, someone had to help the parent, by taking matters into his own hands.
By the way, a slap is not a criminal assualt, but just a minor punishment to help teach the crying baby a lesson. Just like in actuall War, the US is currently trying to teach Iraq and Afganisthan a lesson by slapping the hell out them.
Finnally, the people in line enduring the crying baby were probably very happy, the little brat finnally shut-up with a little help from a stranger. Release, the slapping stranger and worry more about the 11 trillion dollar debt we have and to stop spending our life savings on this stupid war.
If a stranger had TOUCHED my child,much less slap them..I would pull out a6 pack of whoop ass!!! I am a lover not a fighter..I have 2 grown children…never arrested or to serious problems..and 2 grandchildren..but I will turn on you so fast when it comes to my kids or grandkids..there would be 2 of us standing up there in court!!!!!
I usually don’t get involved in discussions regarding how to discipline children. I have my own ideas. they worked well. I never raised a hand to my kids. i was not even tempted. the way I see it is this: your hand is like the atom bomb. if you can;t get your kids to behave without dropping the bomb what will you go to next? how will you escalate?
clearly your kids don’t respond to “put that down right now” so you do what? hit them?
makes perfect sense if you want to rely on being bigger and stronger not nor smarter or more creative or a better problem solver. once you hit your kid you fail. you can’t ever go back.
I like to think that people love to imagine the circumstances that other parents are in and why their kids misbehave. the real truth is that no one knows why that child was unhappy or why the mother could not soothe her.
I’ve had to take cranky kids to places where they did not want to go, sometimes to pick up a prescription or get something we desperately needed in the house and sometimes they were just in a state where they could not be soothed. it never lasted long. it was worse for me than for anyone else.
but that is the thing about living your life in public. other people are going to make you miserable from time to time and that;s just the way it is.
Somehow it’s not surprising to me that this would degenerate into a “blame the mother” fest.
Most people saying this do not understand children at all.
I am a single mom with an autistic child. (My husband is deceased, before I get accused of sleeping around and procreating indiscriminately). I raised him all by myself, and he didn’t always behave, in fact he melted down easily. The autism made him very sensitive to sensory overstimulation when he was a toddler.
I remember one long week of working hard and doing overtime to support ourselves, and finally having to go to the grocery store because we had NO FOOD in the house. I had no alternative but to bring my child along. About 80% through the trip (which I was doing as fast as I could) he totally melted down (he was tired after being in day care all day…) and started screaming. When he was in that mode, really nothing helped. I mean NOTHING. I avoided bringing him places, but that wasn’t always possible. Eventually he grew out of it….anyway, I had a full cart that I needed to pay for, and someone actually started reaming me out, saying “shut that kid up” and then saying that I should just take my child out and leave my groceries! That was real helpful, yep.
I told that wench that if she wanted to do my shopping for me and deliver the groceries to my house since my fridge was empty to go ahead, otherwise shut up and deal with it until I was done shopping.
She shut up. I’m sure my reaction deterred her from slapping my child.
And as far as those of you who throw around the derisive insult “breeder”, I would like to point out that your parents are breeders, having contributed to your dubious existence. Certainly the world would have been better of if your parents had your shiny attitude and chosen to not procreate.
And now my child is 13, and has the nicest manners of any teenager you will ever meet.
And for the record. If anyone touched my child, it sets off a maternal mother lion reaction, and I would tear the perpetrator’s head off.
I’m sure the 2 year old child shut up after being slapped in the face 4-5 times – right! She was probably crying louder than ever. The purpose of the slapping was to relieve him of his frustration and anger. I see way too many parents ignoring their crying, screaming children in public. You take them outside, talk to them, and if it doesn’t stop you take them home (and believe me they want to stay at the store!) – be consistent and follow thru a few times and the fit throwing will stop. Unfortunately many (most) parents these days are just too damn lazy to teach or discpline their children and are just plain rude, inconsiderate and don’t care that it bothers other people – tough s**t is their attitude! I agree – if anyone should have been slapped it should have been the mom. With that said, if anyone ever laid a hand on my daughter they would have been dead meat. How did this guy get 4-5 slaps on this child’s face without the mother jumping him! I guess she was probably in shock but she sounds like a complete incompetent – first not dealing with her child’s fit and second not standing up for her 2 year old to this a**hole.
That man has Tourette syndrome from my observation, and along witht that comes impulsivity..He needs help!!
GWLAWSchool and June, what I see happening more and more is parent’s who completely ignore their child’s behavior (June, I understand your child was autistic but the majority of the time children misbehave and throw fits in public this is not the case). If I see a parent trying to deal with the situation I can respect that and have empathy (I am a mother as well), but when I see them ignoring and/or letting their child run wild, with no concern about teaching their child how to behave appropriately in public that’s when I become really annoyed. And I understand that when you’re dealing with other people you’re going to get annoyed from time to time but I think it’s just the considerate and right thing to do, for others but especially for your child, to at least try to teach your child right, wrong and how to behave.
June
I’m wondering when this culture became so mother-bashing, because it is.
mothers are responsible for just about every wrong done to humanity because we are imperfect. we are either to strict or too lenient. too permissive. too uncaring or”helicopter” moms.
we sing too loudly along with the car music and should never dance ever or be interested in fashion because its too embarrassing to our pre-teens.
we can’t have fun of any kind because we are supposed to be like nuns or amish.
the way I see it is this : our kids should have just enough trauma so that when they go into therapy they have something interesting to talk about.
The Emperor: “Good, I can feel your anger. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you. Something, something…. dark side.”
oh please. poor moms. boo hoo. cry me a river.
Lola…
I will just say that a casual observer may not know the whole story.
Certainly there is no sign on my child that says…I’m autistic!
He looks normal, in fact he’s pretty handsome, he looked normal as a younger child, and I got the “your child is a brat” lecture more than once, often from people who should have known better.
Those who really know me know the extraordinary lengths I have gone through to raise my child, to give him what he needed, to teach my child right from wrong. But you wouldn’t always know it based on his meltdowns in public. (Thank god those days are ended)
I think I’m annoyed at this thread, because its obviously a grievous thing for this man to have done, yet people are like….but what was the mother doing?
I’m really tired of people often blaming the parents for situations that they don’t know diddly squat about.
Gyges and Buddha, et al.
Thank you for calling out the trolls and the troll-like activity. Anyone who thinks that it is ok to slap someone else’s children for any reason needs a little incarceration to clear their head. What is the difference with slapping an adult or a kid? If you slap an adult without a self defense situation, you are going to jail and possibly get sued civilly. The mere fact that the victim was a minor does not lessen the crime.
GWLawschoolMom
Exactly!
I agree that casual observers may not know the whole story. But some of the behaviors I have witnessed, and seeming proliferation of them (almost every time I go anywhere in public and most times more than once during a public outing) and parent’s complete non-reaction that the majority are not autism related or attributable to a disability. Sometimes of course that is the case. And I have never scolded a parent (it’s not my place to) but I know personally that I have been in situations where family has embarassed me when I’m with them because they don’t teach/discpline their child when they misbehave in public (and there is no underlying problem).
What’s with these people who assume a crying child in a public place must have lowlife parents? Did you ever think that some parents have to run by the store to pick up medicine or a prescription for their sick kid after a dr.’s appointment? I know earaches can be a pain in the butt! And who the heck said this lady was talking on a cell phone and that’s why she wouldn’t make her kid be quiet – that’s never been stated and is not a fact. And yes, Dennis slapping in the face is assault – get it right next time. A slap on the bottom with an open hand is not assault by a childs parent. And all you kid haters out there need to come to the realization that you where once a child too and I’m sure you, yes you even cried in public! But you just don’t remember. And another thing kid haters this child is a 2 year old, not 5 or 6 years old. There is a big difference. Or maybe these kid haters are only children and are still a little jealous because the crying kid is getting all the attention. hahahaha! WAAAAAAA!
Nothing good ever comes out of Wal-Mart..!
TJ,
I agree with your statement about Wal-Mart. They are a stain on our society with the way they handle their employees and competition.
TJ:
“Nothing good ever comes out of Wal-Mart..!”
**************
An empty shopping cart?
There is no discussion here. This man assaulted a child. I don’t care how much you don’t like ill-behaved children in public, touching another person, much less a minor person, is unjustifable for any reason, save self defense.
The way we qualify the law these days, into our own personal sense of “right” and “wrong,” is really problematic. The law doesn’t mean anything any more for the express reason — because we want it to mean what we want it to mean to US. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that. Assault is assault, just like torture is torture, to draw parallel to another recent subject of “qualified” law.
When it actually takes a village to raise a child, the village idiot must be excluded from participation!
GLAWMOM:
“the way I see it is this : our kids should have just enough trauma so that when they go into therapy they have something interesting to talk about.”
Now that is the truth!
Obviously the mother was removing her child from the situation as he is the one who followed them so he could slap the child. 61 year old MAN versus a 2 year old child.. wow big man. The score is now even. If she has an earache, teething, etc., she is going to cry. I would have handled that old man in the respect he deserves- total ass whooping. I am getting tired of all these “seniors” who DEMAND respect but have nearly knocked over my disabled child walking down the aisles as they run for the free samples at Costco.
i personally think it was hilarious….lol…i actually can not stop laughing long enough to even think of anything else to write.
Im sorry I have old grandparents and they have made comments about kids crying and acting outin public. And they usually get pissed at the older kids acting a fool not the TODDLERS! Usually old people take a different approach with smaller kids. Maybe she was tired, maybe she was hungry, maybe she didnt feel good! Who is this man to take it upon himself to make a crying 2 yr old cry less by slapping her 4-5 times IN THE FACE. Real smart genius! Slap a kid who is already crying! Thats the way to do it you old sluggar!
And all these ppl talking about these kids running around the stores and being disrespectful I bet the kids you are talking about ARE NOT 2YRS OLD! I too have seen some kids act a plum fool and parents not do ANYTHING about it. Some parents dont discipline their kids in public out of fear of “child abuse”! Some parents are just tired and really dont care. Some parents have already addressed it but b/c you didnt see it makes them crappy parents huh! lol
I don’t give a damn what the mother was doing. No one has the right to lay a hand on someone else’s child. That’s the bottom line. Oh, he would have gotten the beat down. Crazy ass.
I am late to the thread, but wanted to comment on the rights of children generally.
The government cannot give parents or guardians rights to physically assault their children. Children should be able to prosecute parents for any injuries committed, regardless of whether or not it was done under the guise of discipline. The idea that we allow the government through government-mandated schools to beat children in the name of “correction” is particularly deplorable.
Children who do not like how their parents are treating them should have the right to end their guardianship at any age that a court agrees they are capable of becoming independent, or alternately to be taken in by foster parents who could care for them. Children are not property.
Stephens is guilty of assault, as is anyone who strikes a child.
Hey Trashy,
I don’t know where you get your facts, but maybe white people are in the news for trouble with their kids simply because they spend their time around their kids. The little white kids know who their fathers and mothers are. they actually know who to give the Father’s Day cards to. There is always someone around to discipline their butts.
And Kid Kicker – get the hell off of the phone while your in the store. Nobody wants to hear your lame conversation. Having to listen to somebody ramble on while on their stupid phone is worse than any baby crying. Grow up. Save the phone call for later, jerk.
Hey “puzzling”, that’s a bit overboard, don’t you think? I was spanked as a child, and even got rapped on the hands by my elderly piano teacher. I didn’t like it, but I never thought I was being “assaulted”. I deserved the spankings because I did something wrong. I’ve had my mouth washed out with a bar of soup because I lied about something. I didn’t like it but I never thought I was being “assaulted”. We’ve got to stop giving kids the idea that anytime someone touches them, it’s a horrible thing. It’s not, we as a society have turned it into that. God forbid someone touches your poor lil child, for crying out loud.
Government has NO right to come into my home and tell me that I cannot discipline my kids effectively. Time outs? Who came up with that lame idea? Where is the line drawn in regards to physical discipline of children in the home? Abuse? Hardly. I never felt abused when I was spanked.
And “not trashy’… my story about kicking a kid was sarcastic to make a point. I don’t talk on the phone in stores or anywhere that people can hear my conversations. Like you, I can’t stand it when people do that. It’s totally rude, but these days people do all kinds of rude things and think nothing of it. And this is what our kids see as being OK. So they grow up and do the same things. And no one tells the kids that what they’re doing is wrong. Certainly not the parents. They wouldn’t dare tell their little angels that they are imperfect in any way. Not anyone else either, because some of you parents would probably pull out a gun and shoot the messenger or beat him senseless if someone told your kid he was acting like an inconsiderate jerk.
Control your kids in public. Make them behave. Be responsible parents. Teach your kids responsibility. Teach them consideration for others.
Puzzling,
Are you saying that teachers and principals are allowed to hit students at public schools? I’m going to have to ask for an example…
Kid Kicker,
You don’t get to touch other people without their permission. Kid, Adult, Old guys, it really doesn’t matter. I mean, we have types of contact that we as a society pretty much universally just assume that we generally have permission to do them (hand shakes, hands on the shoulder, etc.) and others that we allow for whatever reason (most contact between parents, self defense, etc.). I don’t know of anyone that includes slapping a stranger on the face in either of those lists.
My bad behavior doesn’t excuse yours.
Excuse me, that should read: “…between parents and their children…”
Kid Kicker, I assumed your story was for real. I lean away from the Spoil the Rod theory and believe just about everyone deserves a foot up their patoot every once in awhile. Go anywhere, especially unrban areas, and kids of all races have no respect for anybody. They have the foulest mouths, do just about nothing constructive and go ballistic if you say something to them. Some need some teeth knocked out. Ever see the show “BULLY BEATDOWN” on MTV? They find the neighborhood bully who has made everyone’s life a living hell and put him in the ring with a pro boxer. After being on the receiving end of an ass-whooping all of a sudden their attitudes ahve changed. The nuns used to whack the hell out of me. And when I got home, it was my parents turn. But guess what? I ACCEPTED MY FATE because it was the result of my actions. In general, it’s time for parents to grow up. Did you raise your parents or did your parents raise you? NOW IT’S YOUR TURN. Stop being so liberal and get the kids under control before drugs, booze or violence does them in.
And one more thing for everyone ; GET OFF THE PHONE AND DRIVE!
Not Trashy,
You left out: Get off my lawn!
A quick question for those of you calling for a return to the good old ways of parenting:
If those methods worked so well, how come they produced a generation of adults that according to you can’t raise children?
Gyges,
You asked for an example of government employees being allowed to assault children in the public schools. I found this graphic that shows where this is most prevalent in the United States:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/08/11/education/0811-nat-subwebPUNISH.jpg
Human Rights Watch recently did a story on these abuses:
http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62078/section/6#_ftn200
From the HRW article:
A Mississippi high school girl observed that she was paddled “at least three times a week” in the ninth and tenth grades. She estimated that “at least 60″ students are paddled daily at her school, noting, “A lot of kids get paddled. Every class block you will hear a list of students being called [to the office for paddling] on the intercom.”
We received reports of students of all ages receiving corporal punishment, from pre-kindergarten to high school. A Mississippi middle school boy recalled receiving three blows as a kindergartener for making another child eat dirt in the playground. Another Mississippi kindergartener was beaten three times for stepping on another student’s feet. An east Texas kindergartener was paddled for pulling a chair out from underneath another student. Among our interviewees, paddling was no less common in older grades. We received reports of paddlings administered to a twelfth-grade girl in Mississippi, an eleventh-grade girl in Texas, and a 17-year-old boy in Mississippi…
Nah, I’m a city boy. Lawn is about 50 square feet tops.
Parents just assume ‘somebody else’ will do the disciplining that schools used to and they got lazy. Internet, DVD players, cable TV came along and kids are exposed to more bad influences. Yet, parents put cable TV, game systems, computers in their kids bedrooms. There not helping the kids unless the kids are supervised. Part of it is indifference, part of it is laziness. Maybe one big factor, at least in this city, is the proliferation of single-parent household. And those that have both parents living at home, both of the adults are working. The days of the stay-at-home mom seem numbered.
Kid Kicker,
These assaults on defenseless children in the name of “discipline” are given cover by the government, who also has the power to compel these same children to attend schools in which they can be brutalized directly by government employees. That people would defend the right to inflict pain and serious injury on children is truly barbaric, yet this continues to happen every day by otherwise thinking people.
States like Massachusetts have banned corporal punishment. Yet, Massachusetts allows children to be outfitted with shock belts so that staff in so-called treatment centers can administer excruciating amounts of electricity to children as young as 9 at their discretion. These children can be made to wear shock belts at all times, including when they sleep or shower. In some instances children are bound by all four limbs face down on a board and the shocks are administered by staff they cannot see. This is nothing less than torture of children sanctioned by the government.
Children own their own bodies. Their creators do not own them. The government does not own them. They alone own them.
I was a supervisor at a city recreation dept. pool. The female lifeguard tells four boys they have to leave for breaking the rules. Kids are aged 13 to 15. The kids respond by cursing the girl out with the foulest language. Then they go home and bring back mom and dad. The parents let loose with the nastiest language before even asking a queation. I have to intervene and I back the lifeguard’s side of the story. They are all told to leave. Dad says he’ll be waiting for me. No problem. Bottom line is, parents set terrible example and really just want the kids at the pool so they don’t have to watch them. Be a parent. If I tell you the kid calls the girl an “‘F-in c**t, among other things, at least question the kid. Don’t encourage him.
1965 : we had black and white tv with knobs (no remote) and about 7 stations. We had board games, AM radio, family sat together and had dinner.
NO: VCR, DVD, cell phones, internet, cable TV, MP3, computers, rap music. The inclusion of these influences on this generation must require more parenting, not less. The hands-off approach of prior generations may be inadequate with all of this junk these kids are exposed to today. Not too many positive role models on MTV or BET music videos.
Puzzling,
Well I’ll be. That’s a bit more wide spread then I expected, and inexcusable. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. You’ll find few stronger opponents to unnecessary violence than myself.
Not Trashy,
So to sum up: Things were better when you were young? It’s amazing how many of the world’s woes could be solved just by going back 40-50 years.
life was simpler 30-40 years ago, and there seemed to be a mom at home in the houses I frequented. With more negative imagery aimed at today’s teens and pre-teens and more single parent households the need for stronger parenting has increased. The neighborhood where I grew up was rough and poor. The verbal warnings didn’t go too far back then. I can name at least ten kids from our crowd that didn’t live to be thirty. Overdoses, shootings, suicide and two died in prison. The ‘K.’ family alone had three out of five of their kids in prison at once, one died in prison from injesting some kind of synthetic drug, the other brother of AIDS. Their father was a drunk but always had the ‘not my kid’ atitude when they were first locked up. Depending on where you live and the age of the kids, sometimes you need tough love. Peer pressure can be stronger than dad’s words.
I will openly admit that I will let my kids cry it out when I am grocery shopping. If my baby’s diaper has been changed, I have given her a snack and a drink, and given her toys to play with, or even medicine to sooth those new teeth pains, and she still fusses, I continue my shopping.
I’ve already made time around their nap schedules to grocery shop, loaded up two kids, driven 20 minutes to town, found a parking spot, carried one kid in while holding the hand of the other who is whining to be carried as well, and of course while all this is happening, everyone decides that now is a good time to call my phone (I ignore all calls while shopping!). So I am not going to leave my near full grocery cart because my 18 month old decides to throw a hissy fit. She can deal with it. And if someone doesn’t like it, then they can just get over it. And if they tell me to shut my kid up or they’ll do it for me, I’ll run them over with my shopping cart!! (I’m kidding!) I’d actually tell them that maybe THEY should leave.
I never take my kids to the movies (It’s too expensive anyways) and we rarely ever eat out and if we do, it’s usually at a pizza place anyways and my kids happily eat that stuff.
Personally, I believe that by leaving the store when your kid is fussy like that let’s them have control over any situation. They will quicky realize that all they have to do to get out of a boring situation is to throw a fit and they will get their way. Kids are a lot smarter than they are given credit for.
BOTTOM LINE>>>THIS WAS WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regardless of one’s own attitudes about child rearing and discipline, the point of the story is this:
1. The child is 2 years old.
2. The moron is 61 years old.
3. The child isn’t the moron’s.
His actions are neither understandable nor excusable under any conceivable set of facts. No, it shouldn’t be a felony, but it’s close enough to merit a timeout in a small cell.
NT,
Well shoot, you’ve convince me. A family living in poverty with an alcoholic parent who you remember (several decades after the events in question, during which you were a child who are known for paying attention to the parenting techniques of all the adults in their neighbor hood) as being somewhat in denial about the behavior of his children had several people in it who went to jail. Therefore, modern parents don’t know what they’re doing.
Or, you could be a man who thanks to the anonymity of the internet feels free to: make pompous, arrogant and overly simplistic claims about societal problems; treat complete strangers like idiots, while bemoaning the lack of manners in society today; shake your fist impotently at those dang youngsters and there crazy ideas about peace, free love, and hairstyles.
Everyone else:
I don’t know why, but for some reason the people walking by and shouting “I know better than everyone else” really bug me on this issue, my apologies for getting a little more acrid then usual. I’m done.
What stranger did I treat like an idiot? I guess opinions are only allowed to be expressed by a few. And anyone who disagrees is wrong. just check this out and I rest: My old high School, Kensington High in Philadelphia, has a graduation rate of less than 50%. Less than half. At the end of my old street is the Frankford elevated train tracks. Walk down Kensington Ave. and it is loaded with hookers, junkies, homeless and alkies. The city has a murder rate among the highest in the nation. Drugs are everywhere, especially prescriptions. The neighborhood was a white slum back then and still is now, what’s left of it. This neighborhood may be the exception, but this was my reality growing up. There were no white picket fences and apple trees at the end of the lane. The sun never even shown on the avenue, with the EL blocking the view. The same internet anonimity you speak of goes for everyone, including yourself.
NT,
“…get the hell off of the phone while your in the store. Nobody wants to hear your lame conversation…” and
“Stop being so liberal and get the kids under control before drugs, booze or violence does them in,” are two shining examples of your attitude towards the others that commented. You started off antagonistic, and stayed that way. I make no apologies to you for answering in kind.
I really don’t mind when people who disagree with me state their opinions. I have no say in who gets to comment here, and make no claims that I do. I do mind when people preach at me. I also generally ask that people back up their claims with evidence. Just look at my conversation with Puzzling. Puzzling made a claim, I was skeptical, they provided proof, and I admitted my error.
Now, your rants about where you grew up don’t have anything to do with anything. They were at best tangential. I suppose I should have just pointed that out, or even better ignored it, but like I said, I hate being preached at. That’s especially when it comes to how I choose to raise my child.
Congratulations Mr. Stephens!Even if you plea bargain down to a misdermeanor to avoid prison time,you may still face the prospect of a civil suit,that has the potential to possibly ruin you financially.Instead of being able to save for a comfortable retirement,you will have to work longer because of wage garnishments against you. The mother of that child is not stupid,and it is you whom will be picking up the tab for that college and/or technical school education in that child’s future.I can see it now: In eighteen years from now, she’ll be the president of Pi Kappa sorority house,because you could’nt control your basic impulses.
All you had to do was walk away from that screaming annoyance.When I got to Wal Mart and I hear a screaming kid,I’ll say to my lady:”Let’s go to the checkout and get the hell out of here”. That is truly the best solution the the problem,as opposed to having my future earnings,paying for that child’s education. Not too bright when your living standard takes a dump,and hers goes up.