The members of the Faithful Word Baptist Church have gathered to affirm their support for their pastor, Steven L. Anderson, who has called for the death of President Barack Obama and “melted like a snail.” Anderson went out of his way to reaffirm his desire to see Obama die.
A couple dozen members of the Faithful Word Baptist Church carried Bibles and rallied around their hate-filled preacher, who they insisted is a “caring human being.” One member appropriatedly wore a shirt reading “Hating is not a Crime.” I agree, though I doubt that he was stating a constitutional principle as much as a personal preference.
Anderson wants to spread God’s word by calling for the death of those with whom he disagrees. What is scary is not just his shaping his family but his religious flock.
Here i a transcript of his Jan. 18, 2009 sermon from talk2action:
“…in the prayer closet with David,
`Break their teeth, Oh God, in their mouths. Break out the great teeth of the young lions, Oh Lord, let them melt away as waters which run continually. When he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.’ [Psalm 58, KJV]
`As a snail which melteth’, Barack Obama, since you want to use your salt solution to kill babies in this country, Barack Obama, you’re going to REAP what you SOW because one day, Barack Obama, you’re going to be burning in HELL and you’re going to feel a burning sensation all over your SKIN – which was the same sensation felt by every baby that was aborted in his mother’s womb.
And David, praying, is saying, `As a snail which melteth.’ See, I’m very scriptural when I brought up about snails being salted. He said, `as a snail which melteth let every one of them pass away like the untimely birth of a woman.’ He’s saying `like an abortion,’ right ? Like a miscarriage. Because that’s what an untimely birth is. He’s saying, let Barack Obama perish like an abortion. Let Barack Obama perish like a miscarriage. – `As the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.’
Let me tell you something – somebody needs to abort Barack Obama. It’s true. Now, I’m not to do it. I’m not saying vigilanteism. I’m not saying that somebody should go kill. I’m saying there should be a government in this country that, you know, under God’s authority, that takes Barack Obama and aborts him. On television. For everybody to see in the whole world.
Did you hear me ?
Now, I’m not saying I’m going to do it. I’m not a vigilante. But I’m going to tell you something – if there was any justice in this country, if the judicial branch of this country meant ANYTHING they would take Barack Obama and all of his colleagues and take them and they would abort him. They would melt him like a snail. That’s what they – they’d break the teeth out of his head, my friends…
And you say, `oh, I can’t believe you’re threatening the president,’ I’m not saying I’m going to do it, I just wish God would do it. And he will do it, my friends. And I wish we had a government that would act on God’s behalf. Like the government is supposed to do. You know, the government is supposed to carry out God’s law – enforce God’s laws against murder, against stealing, against lying, against deceit, against adultery. That’s the purpose of human government.
And so I’d like to see Barack Obama melt like a snail. I’d like to see the teeth knocked right out of his head. I’d like to see him perish just like an abortion. That’s what David preached. That’s what he prayed to God.
Let’s read him one more time:
`As a snail which,’ — I think this is Barack Obama’s life verse. If you’re one of those people that doesn’t write in your Bible, fine. But if you like to make notes in your Bible, just put Barack Obama’s name next to Psalm 58:8. I think this is a great verse for him -
[Psalm 58:8-11]‘As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.’
`Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath.’
`The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance:’ [Anderson ad-libs, `he shall wash his feet in the blood of Barack Obama.' continues] I’m sorry, `he shall wash his feet in the wicked.’
`So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.’
Now look – we could sit there and say you know… and we’re only talking about one thing that we don’t like about Barack Obama. I could name for you a hundred things that he’s wrong on. I could name for you a hundred… [unintelligible ] We’re just talking about one aspect of it – the abortion that he’s fighting for, the murder that he’s fighting for.
What about the fact that he’s turning it into a communist nation ? That he wants to redistribute the wealth, like Levi Mordachai – also known as Karl Marx ? And his Communist Manifesto – [He] wanted to redistribute the wealth. You know, you think I want taken the wealth that I go out and work by the sweat of my face and the sweat of my brow and give it to some lazy jerk in the ghetto, somewhere, who’s never gone to work in their life ?
I don’t care whether you like that or not, it’s wicked. God said to the man that works, `if a man will not work neither shall he eat.’ That’s what the Bible preaches. Why should I go out and work so that some fat slob in the ghetto can get fat off of my food stamps that I’m paying for and EBT – you know, [to audience], what, is it – EBT ? You know, `I want Domino’s Pizza’ – we’ve got a big sign, `We Accept EBT.’ You know what I mean ? And they probably deliver it on EBT. They don’t even have to leave the house, my friend, they’ll get the pizza delivered to them.
And, you pay for it. It’s wicked, it’s stealing. You say, `It’s not a moral issue.’ – Uh… last time I checked, stealing’s a moral issue. Take money out of my pocket and give it to somebody else – isn’t that in the Ten Commandments ? Oh, you know, you just care about these financial issues, gotta care about the moral issues… financial issues are moral issues my friend. Somebody takes money out of my bank account – it’s immoral. OK ? It’s wrong.
Now, let’s keep reading, let’s get back to the Bible here.
So many other things that we don’t like about Barack Obama. Does anybody… let’s have a little open forum here. Is there a man — and, only men speak in this church — is there a man here that can tell me something else that’s wicked about Barack Obama tonight ? Do you have some other policy that you think is wicked ?
[audience member] – Pro queer.
[Anderson] – Gay rights. Thank you, sir. All right, this is great. Gay rights. — interactive preaching with pastor Anderson — gay rights, right ? Promoting the Sodomites. Pushing not only that but a sodomite agenda in schools. Schools teaching sodomite curriculum. Teaching alternative lifestyles. See, your five-year olds, your six-year olds, you seven year olds… [you] say they don’t start that young.
Well you know what ? – You only have to drive two hours, my friend. Get in your car and drive two hours and you’ll be in California. And it’s by law being taught in elementary school in the earliest grades. Only drive two hours to get there !
What else ? What other wicked policies in Barack Obama’s policies besides promoting sodomites and pedophiles and perverts ? Besides murdering children ? Besides wealth redistribution and communist stealing of the property of hard working men and women – and to pay for lazy jerks to get rich off them and to sit around and, and – you say `nobody gets rich’ – oh yeah ? I grew up in South Sacramento California and people got rich off welfare. Because there will be people living in a house – a whole bunch of people would get together in a house, they’re all on Welfare, and this was back in the 1980′s, this was a big thing that was going on. Who’s ever heard of the `Home Invasion Robbery’ ? Has anybody ever heard of it ?
It’s when somebody jumps through the front window of the house, just busts in , runs in, you know – ransacks the house, steals everything and gets out of there with a bunch of guys. Gang violence – it’s what we’re talking about.
You know… and, this has nothing to do with race. I’m so sick and tired of people calling me a racist for being against Barack Obama. You know, I thought we were past that in this country. You know what I mean ? Let it go ! I love all people equally – red, yellow, black and white – they’re Christians inside – I’ve won more black people to the Lord, probably, than I’ve won white people to the Lord my friend. I love black people, I want to see them saved. I want to get them the Gospel. I have very close friends, right now, that are black.
One of my best friends is black. But, you know what ? I’m not going to sit there and dwell on it and cry about it. Let’s get over it. They’re perpetuating the hatred between races by bringing it up all the time. Oh WOW – you know, the first black president ! No he’s not – he’s white.
He’s just as white as he is black. He’s half black, half white. But, yet, he’s just BLACK, BLACK, BLACK. Why not say he’s white ? I mean, if he’s half black and half white, I’m going to say he’s white. That’s the half I want to chase ! You know ?
I’m calling him a white man. We have a white president coming in, my friend.
He’s WHITE !
Don’t tell me he’s black, he’s WHITE
His mom is WHITE. Her mom is WHITE ! Her dad is WHITE ! His parents are WHITE.
He’s a WHITE MAN !
Barack Obama is WHITE… DEAL with it !”
For the full story, click here.
This guy is sick and dangerous. This is one church that should lose its tax exemption because the central theme of this entire bit of nonsense called a sermon is the destruction of the Democratic (and African American) President. Most of the hate being spewed by the right against Obama is related to racism. The facts don’t get in the way of their blind hate. I just read a Daily Kos poll that 51% of people in Kentucky believe that Obama was born in the US. How can you talk to sheep that accept this nonsense?
Hiding behind a religion known for its murderous persecution is now mainstream conservative politics.
The quaint era where we did not openly criticize the clearly deadly dangerous magic-thinking of others must come to an end. We cannot become a civil society until we pull our zealots out of the public square, by the hair if necessary.
I say we petition his headquarters church to transfer him to a little town in Arkansas.
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/09/pop-cap-for-jesus-and-justice.html
Professor Turley,
I understood that their were conversations between either the FBI or the Secret Service and Mr. Anderson. What were the results of these conversations? Did they find him to be non compos mentis and this concluded he was no rational threat to the President? What do the statutes and the USC say about this particular sort of speech?
Thanks.
I would love to see all churches lose their tax exempt status, since it seems to me that tax exemption is a massive government endorsement of religion. I really object to having to pay more in taxes so that churches can be free to pay none.
I know that will never happen so long as all of our politicians are the sort who hold long and meaningful conversations with their invisible friends and believe that everyone else should do so as well. But this church has crossed even the feeble line the government has drawn in the sand between true religious observance (whatever true religion is) and political advocacy.
Anderson’s religious flock was already shaped into this particular pretzel of hate and intolerance. as for his children, like rodgers and hammerstein wrote: you’ve got to be carefully taught and his children are being schooled in hate and bigotry. this church is not all that different and special from others like that kansas church, godhatesfags.com. I used to live a few miles away from the the church of jesus christ christian run by a real slime ball Pete Peters who invented Identity Christianity which pretty much put the KKK into the religion business.
as for hate not being a crime, it is more of an embarrassment and when people admit to being haters, something they usually deny as they burn books and lynch the objects of their scorn. when people admit this at least their honesty follows them around like a dark cloud. and as long as they wear it on their t-shirts the rest of us can point and laugh.
Alvin:
I have long argued that such prayers or statements are protected by the first amendment despite the hateful and irresponsible content. This is indeed a vile human being with poisonous ideas of religion. However, the best way to defeat such ideas is with free speech rather than prosecution.
Is a hateful person aware of that emotion, or is it subconscious?
JT prudently relies upon good speech to drown out stupid speech. Personally, I have been praying that the heavens rain down fire and brimstone on Rev. Anderson but no answer so far. I have faith however given the historical precedent against the priests of Ba’al in 1 Kings 38-40.
I have to side with Prof. Turley on the free speech aspect, but shouldn’t this church lose its tax exempt status for this obvious political activity? I am hoping that the experts on this site can answer that question.
Andersen should be ignored to the maximum extent and SS or FBI should tackle him with very low profile (earthly response). Press should accept their professional responsibilities and should not magnify dog barkings in the name of freedom of speech. God, however, is the final judge. People must realize that “ALL AUTHORITY IS GIVEN BY GOD” including authority to our elected officials to perform according to their wisdom and political circumstances. I hope that some gay will kill Adndersen soon, I mean that’s how much they must be upset right now. Watch out false preacher. HATE & ANGER IS FALSE POWER.
God warned us of these days. (11Thess-2-3-12) this man is a son of perdition just like Judas, who now opposes and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sits in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God. (9)Even him, whose coming is after the work of Satan, with all powers and signs and lying wonders. (10) with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they believe not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. (11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a Lie, (12) That they All might be Damned who believed not the Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
These devils conceal themselves by teaching, some antichrist from across the world will come in the flesh to deceive the world, knowing, satan would not come in the flesh, even if he could, he does his best work in the ‘spirit’ BEHOLD, antichrist has control over todays Church! (Ephesians-2-2-3) the ‘spirit’ that now WORKS in the children of disobedience, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind and are by Nature the children of Wrath even as others. Need not blame Obama, Religious Leaders across this Nation have already destroyed this Nation from the inside-out.
The Apostate Church! (Rev-18-4) And I heard a Voice from Heaven, saying, come out of her, My people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues. (23) And the Light of the Candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the Voice of the Bridegroom and of the Bride shall be heard no more at all in thee, for your merchants were the great men of the earth; and by thy sorceries were all Nations deceived. Woe unto America! (Romans-11-20-22) Like Israel, Has God Cut America off?
Sassy,
It takes a true oracle to predict that men would use religion as an excuse for their fear and hatred of what they view as other.
It is people like Pastor Anderson who give religion a bad name. He hopes that God will strike President Obama dead and/or break his teeth in his mouth. I doubt that God is going to strike anyone dead but if he decided to do so, I suspect he would decide that Pastor Anderson was more deserving of being struck dead than President Obama.
Can you imagine how Pastor Anderson’s children are being taught. It saddens me to think that they will grow up in such an environment.
First I read about somebody killing someone’s pet in a manner I won’t even recount, then this piece of, er, work. What a country we are.
Shortly after reading this, I was reminded of the other aspect of our shared humanity, the ‘Last Lecture’ of Randy Pausch. What a species we are.
Gyges, Jesus said, from within the heart of man, his mouth speaks. This man has nothing but hate within his heart, (1John-3-15) whosoever hates another is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has Eternal Life abiding in him. (16) Hereby perceive we the Love Of God, because He laid down His Life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. If this man was a servant of God, and believes Obama is an evil man, instead of praying for God to Kill him and sent him to Hell, he would be down of his kness day and night praying for Obama.
(Malachi-3-16-18)They that Fear the LORD spake often one to another, and the LORD heard it, and a Book of Remembrance was written before Him for them that Feared the LORD, and that thought upon His Name. (17) And they shall be Mine, saith the Lord of Hosts, in that Day when I make up My Jewels, I will spare them, as a man spares his own son. (18) Then shall you return, and discern between the Righteous and the wicked, between him that serves God and him that serve God Not.
And to think that he looks like a nice Neo-Nazi with his family. Lucky for him Hitler did not survive and win the war. I do not think that he is Aryan looking enough though.
To wish someone to be dead is not very Christian-like. This man is filled with hate. He’s nothing more than a false teacher. And he should not be pastoring a church at all.
I see that pastor Anderson is wound up over abortion. Where do we all feel that the line should be drawn (that what law is all about, isn’t it, drawing lines) where the little darling should be protected by law?
Sassy,
Any resemblance between you and a true adherent of the Gospels is purely coincidental. Not only are you incapable of understanding Jesus, but you allow your racist hatred to shine through. Quote all the text you will, but being blind to the real message within ensures your ignorance. Jesus most important teaching was the “Golden Rule” and your comments show no understanding of it.
“Gyges, Jesus said, from within the heart of man, his mouth speaks. This man has nothing but hate within his heart, (1John-3-15) whosoever hates another is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has Eternal Life abiding in him.”
*****************
Forget that spoilsport Mike S, Sassy, I like your style and love your interpretation. Let’s apply you rule to this rather grumpy curmudgeon’s take on things:
“I will sweep away everything in all your land,” says the LORD. “I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity,” says the LORD. “I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD’s guidance or seek my blessings.” (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)
Like you, I agree the speaker here is filled with hate, and a murderer. Wonder why anyone follows his teachings?
Sally:
“To wish someone to be dead is not very Christian-like.”
*****************
Read above, wishing someone dead is quite Christian-like, based on my reading of the “Sacred Texts.”
It is interesting how evil religious fanatics can actually be. The so-called Pro Life crowd has a tendency to declare their desire for God to strike down the evil doctors, but claim that they actually believe in the writings of a peaceful Jesus. The good Benedictine Sisters that taught me Catechism would be appalled at the claims of this so-called man of God.
rafflaw:
“The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose” — and they do.
to Mike Spindell, you say
Actually, He didn’t say “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. He said “a new commandment I give you: Love one another as I have loved you”. Close, but can you see the difference?
To mespo727272, you say
Oh, he is? Is hate an emotion? I mean, can one feel it?
My take on hate speech is it is speech that stirs hate in the hearer.
Can anybody say “incitement to violence?” How about accessory before the fact to murder? Dropping in the “now I’m not going to commit the murder myself” every other paragraph is in no way an exoneration of this animal. I thought that the FBI was required to investigate and, when necessary, prosecute all credible threats against the life of the President. What’s the problem? Are they too busy rounding up illegal aliens?
Sassy, you say
Is this more than the fallen state of the world reflected in the fallen state of the church? Haven’t the people often thought to themselves Surely this is as bad as it can be. How long …
I am thinking of Christ’s statement “Many are called but few are chosen” just now; thinking it may have applied to his hearers in this way: many are called to be the chosen people, but how many are.
To Christians who say that the land is sick:
“If my people who are called by my name
will humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
Martin Gugina, The Lord, not I Said, from within a man’s heart, his mouth speaks. God so loved the World, He gave His Only Son, that through Him the world might be saved, If any man is in Christ Jesus, instead of praying for God to kill anybody and sent them to Hell, they would be down of their faces before Holy God, night and day, praying for the Lord to save that person. Every time you open your mouth it reveals what’s in your heart! That carnal minded preacher talks like Religious Leader when Christ walked upon this earth, who cried out, Crucify Him!
Today’s Church is taught such as, through God’s Grace, He understands when we sin. A Lie out of Hell! When sinners came unto Jesus to confess their sins, Jesus warned them, SIN NO MORE, less a worse thing come upon you, (Hebrews-10-2-29) God’s Judgment! It would be better to have never known Him, then to have known Him and wilfully sin against Him. Grace is, the Power of His Spirit within us!
(Ephesians-3-16)Riches of His Glory!(Jude-24) Now unto Him that is Able to keep us from falling, and to Present us Faultless before the presence of His Glory with Exceeding Joy.
(Romans-6-1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in Sin that Grace might abound? (2) GOD FORBID: How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Is God’s Grace within you? (Galatians-5-16) Walk in His Spirit and you do Not fulfill sinful desires of the flesh. Or, have you been deceived by antichrist? (Ephesians-2-2-3) the ‘spirit’ that now Works in children of disobedience, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature the children of Wrath, even as others?
(1John-3-5) We know that Jesus was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no Sin. (6) Whosoever abides in Him, Sins Not: whosoever sins, has not seen Him neither known Him. Take Heed:
(Matthew-7-21-23) Not all that say unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into Heaven, but he that does the Will of My Father which is in Heaven. God have Mercy on today’s Church, or no flesh will be saved. (11Thess-2-3-12)(11Peter-3-14-22)
Martin writes:s a hateful person aware of that emotion, or is it subconscious?
I think they know its hate… they just enjoy it and seek it out more than we do. at the end of the day hate is an emotion no better or worse than any other. its what an individual or group does with it that matters.
mespo writes: JT prudently relies upon good speech to drown out stupid speech. Personally, I have been praying that the heavens rain down fire and brimstone on Rev. Anderson but no answer so far. I have faith however given the historical precedent against the priests of Ba’al in 1 Kings 38-40.
yeah. that’s a pretty optimistic point of view on the part of the Professor. I am not always able to rely on strategies like this but I don’t live anywhere near the ivory tower.
I find myself becoming more discouraged and at times are frightened in a way I have not experienced since the Cuban missile crisis.
mohan writes: Andersen should be ignored to the maximum extent and SS or FBI should tackle him with very low profile (earthly response). Press should accept their professional responsibilities and should not magnify dog barkings in the name of freedom of speech. God, however, is the final judge. People must realize that “ALL AUTHORITY IS GIVEN BY GOD” including authority to our elected officials to perform according to their wisdom and political circumstances. I hope that some gay will kill Adndersen soon, I mean that’s how much they must be upset right now. Watch out false preacher. HATE & ANGER IS FALSE POWER.
while you are certainly welcome to your point of view and accompanying religious beliefs, please try to refrain from telling others what we “must” believe. it’s offensive. its is even more offensive to wish for a gay person to kill pastor anderson. also: typing in all caps is considered to be shouting.
sassy writes: Gyges, Jesus said, from within the heart of man, his mouth speaks. This man has nothing but hate within his heart, (1John-3-15) whosoever hates another is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has Eternal Life abiding in him. (16) Hereby perceive we the Love Of God, because He laid down His Life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. If this man was a servant of God, and believes Obama is an evil man, instead of praying for God to Kill him and sent him to Hell, he would be down of his kness day and night praying for Obama.
there may be people in your life who like being preached to. I do not.
are you able to engage in conversation without preaching? do try.
Martin,
Hair splitting to me.
New & Improved!
Now with video stupidity . . .
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/08/obama-hating-pastor-prote_n_279253.html
Mike and Martin,
Actually, picking cherries to split hairs. I’m not going to provide the direct quote because the people who care will look it up, but the verse is Mark 12:30-31. I chose that one rather than the one in Lev. it references because we’re talking about what Jesus is reported to have said.
That’s my contributing to a theological argument for the year, I hope you all enjoyed it.
GLSM,
To be fair, Sassy was preaching at me. I’ve never been one to hold a begrudge somebody beating me to the punch, so thank you.
Martin Gugino. Yes, God did say, If My people who are called by My Name, will humble themselves, etc. I believe that is speaking to everybody who has Ever heard the Name of Jesus. The Jew, Greek, bond of free, male or female. Through Abraham and David, Israel was called by God, the Nation of the Promise, the Coming of Messiah, the Seed promised to Abraham, according to Faith, and the Seed promised to David according the Flesh. However, (John-1-11) He came unto His Own, and His Own received Him not. (Romans-11-15-23) Because of disbelief, they were cut off.
Why didn’t they receive Jesus? (John-8-33-44) They answered Jesus, we be the seed of Abrahman, and were never in bondage to any man: how say Thou, You shall make us free? Satan used their conceit as Abraham’s seed to deceive them into disbelief, thereby they do not see their Great Need of Jesus that they might be saved, until this very day. Today’s Babylon Religion tells the Jews of unbelief, they are God’s Chosen People, giving them No Reason to seek their Messiah that they too might be saved. (Romans-11-23) They also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be Grafted in: for God is able to graft them in Again. Their only Hope!!! Woe unto False Religious Leaders!
(11Corin-4-3) If our Gospel is hid, it hid to them that are Lost: (4) In whom the god of this world hath Blinded the Minds of them which believe not, lest the Light of the Glorious Gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should Shine on them. God then called the Gentile.(Isaiah-49-1-7)He used His Chosen Jews to share the Gospel with the Gentile. Does that mean all Gentile’s are saved? No, because the Jews are the seed of Abraham are they all saved? No. Only through Christ Jesus can any man be saved. (Romans-11-19-25)God warned the Gentile, don’t be highminded but Fear, for if God spared not the natural branches, Take Heed lest He also spare not you.
(Jeremiah-4-1-7) The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentile is on his way; he is gone from his place to make your land desolate; and your cities shall be laid waste, without inhabititant. (8) For this gird you with sack-cloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the Lord is not turned back from us. (11Thess-2-3-12)Wake up America!
GWLawSchoolMom, it you don’t like what I write, don’t read it!
What a Christian paying attention should do is not preach unless asked by the audience. It’s rude and it doesn’t comport with Jesus’ teachings. Jesus encouraged tolerance of those different than you. Churches then twisted his words to justify attacking those different than you. So next time you get the urge to preach at someone without being asked to?
WWJD?
Forgive them, turn the other cheek, shut the Hell up would be my first guess.
The salvation of the world isn’t YOUR job even by your mythology. That job is God’s as mercy is His to dispense has HE please, not you or indeed any human. It’s also each individual’s job to care for their soul and earn mercy, although that – like a lot in the Bible – contradicts the idea that God loves you. If He loves you salvation should be a given unless God is a hypocrite. But individual responsibility enters into the picture right out of the gate else otherwise we wouldn’t have free will. Free will is a gift from God after all. All have choice. I don’t know about you, but if I were a God, much less a man or THE God, I don’t think I’d like some random stranger telling me how to do my job when they are not my boss and it’s my choice on how to proceed – even if they claim to work for or know the boss. Would you like it if some nutbag came to your job and started telling you what to do because they read it an book somewhere and claim to be on speaking terms with your boss? Hardly. You’d do one of two things if you’re a rational person:
Ignore them or eject them. This is no different.
So you might want to change to Jesus’ tactics. You know, telling the Good News to the willing but leaving the rest of us heathens alone when we want to be left alone. That’s called “polite society” when you don’t butt into other people’s personal business like their souls or sex lives or book shelf or home life. But polite is a word missing from the evangelical lexicon. It has been from Go.
When you preach at the unwilling?
That usually works out well.
For creating division.
Christ was a carpenter. The essence of carpentry is joining, not dividing. When you tell others they are wrong or somehow bad, you are not joining. You are trying to guilt or intimidate compliance with how YOU, a human, interprets the will of a GOD. You create bad will, resentment and forced compliance. A forced virtue is no virtue at all.
hu·bris\ˈhyü-brəs\, n., Gr. – hybris: exaggerated pride or self-confidence.
The very definition of thinking a being as limited as a human is even capable of understanding a God much less a God’s motivation. And the last time I checked, pride was still a sin in most major religions. So think about how proud you are of YOUR God next time you start to preach at people and remember it’s a sin. Then do what Jesus would do: forgive, forget, and shut up.
I have to thank the good insane preacher for pointing this out; 12 years of parochial school and nobody ever mentioned this passage.
What this sounds like to me is an explanation, to all our regressive right wing religionist moralizing yahoo friends, that a baby which is unborn melts away like a snail. It is not a person (yet), it has not been killed (murdered), there is no lasting damage to God’s eternal order done by abortion.
I always kind of figured there must be something in the Bible spelling this out, since most of the Jews that I know are very rational people, but I didn’t know where.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you never suppress free speech, even the vile sort that is trying to stir up violence against elected officials.
SASSY
My last name is Gugino, not Gugina.
I see all the bible quotes, but how do you apply them to this case? I wasn’t clear what you were driving at. Can you say it in a sentence or two, possibly?
GWLawSchoolMom
I get uncomfortable with mindreading. I know that one does have to look to motives.
Gyges
Thanks for your comment.
The passage is
I didn’t include these because Christians feel that salvation comes through faith, not through the law, and Christ came to save. So how could his greatest teaching be the Law? Is He a rabbi, then? Just a thought.
Budda is Laughing re: carpentry
Luke 12:51
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
tmaxPA Re: It is not a person (yet)
When is it a person?
Gyges writes: GLSM,
To be fair, Sassy was preaching at me. I’ve never been one to hold a begrudge somebody beating me to the punch, so thank you.
yeah. you know? I don’t really care who Sassy was preaching to.
This stuff comes into my home just like it comes into your home.
I don’t like it.
I get that this is what public means, that you sometimes have to deal with stuff you don’t want to hear or see because it’s public and I know my choices are to stay and take it or leave.
I chose a third choice: to tell Sassy that I don’t care for this style of communication because it has nothing to do with him/her. it isn’t opinion. it isn’t original. it isn’t an idea that stimulates others to have ideas of their own.
it’s just preaching. and its tiresome and tacky.
Sassy writes: GWLawSchoolMom, it you don’t like what I write, don’t read it!
yeah, you know? I thought of that. and then I decided because I think for myself, to reject that notion. I decided instead to ask you not to preach here.
do what you will.
the more you preach the more you come off as a hyper religious robaton with no original ideas of your own.
Martin,
The historic Jesus probably would have been a rabbi (assuming the Jesus of the Bible is based roughly off of a person that at one point existed). The mythic Jesus? He probably had his rabbihood de-emphasized and eventually removed throughout the various incarnations of Christian doctrines for a variety of reasons (mostly anti-Jewish sentiment). So the modern incarnation of mythic Jesus? Not a rabbi.
I don’t think the first is particularly relevant to this conversation, and I try to resist any urge to talk theology so don’t really want to get into the second. I use the words “mythic Jesus” so you should be able to figure out why.
GLSM,
I was sincere in thanking you. Like I said, you beat me to the punch. You’re preaching to the choir.
martin writes: I get uncomfortable with mindreading. I know that one does have to look to motives.
you asked a question. I gave an answer.
I was not mindreading. I just happen to know people like this pastor.
want another answer? ask a different question.
Mr. Anderson’s flock could have been expected to support his position. This is an independent church which answers to no hierarchy. The congregants attend because the pastor’s views provide pseudo-theological justification for their own. He in turn is enjoying the momentary fame and likely is experiencing membership growth. But his preaching appears to have long since crossed the line between even a loose definition of religious practice and political advocacy.
Martin writes: I didn’t include these because Christians feel that salvation comes through faith, not through the law, and Christ came to save. So how could his greatest teaching be the Law? Is He a rabbi, then? Just a thought.
depending on which Jew you talk to you will get a different response. some Jews like me think that it is unlikely that jesus ever lived and if he did was not any nominal sort of Jew at all let alone a rabbi.
others believe he was a great man, a teacher and possibly a rabbi.
what this suggests is that there is no consensus in the jewish community and likely never will be.
gyges writes: I was sincere in thanking you. Like I said, you beat me to the punch. You’re preaching to the choir.
right back atcha, doll.
“Why didn’t they receive Jesus?”
Sassy,
Jews didn’t receive Jesus because his message came from Paul, an admitted Roman Citizen, who had never known Jesus. You are probably unaware of this, though you should be, that the Jews were among the most rebellious of the peoples against the Roman Empire. They hated Rome and they hated Romans. Why do you think James the Just sent Paul to go preach to the “goyim?” Jesus disciples knew Jesus best and knew he believed in Judaism and they also understood Paul was preaching what to them was false truths. If the Gospels have some truth to them then most probably Jesus was a Pharisee Rabbi, who were the ones leading the revolts against Rome.
However, it all got screwed up when after Paul’s success preaching something that had nothing to do with Judaism or the Torah gained converts, when Constantine needed allies to become emperor. He took over Christianity and beginning at the council of Nicaea changed it into a mixture of sun worship, Mithraic legend (the “God” Mithra’s traditional birth date was 12/25) and edited versions of the Torah and Gospels to de-Judaize them. Now that’s admittedly the Jewish point of view so you can take it or leave it, the historical data is fairly valid.
The upshot is that Jews are happy with their religion, thank you and we don’t believe in an afterlife per se. We believe that good should be done on Earth and we don’t believe in original sin. I’m not trying to convert you, or to tell you one way is better than another, merely trying to broaden your outlook and responding to your annoying smugness of belief, which is incidentally of itself one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Believe as you want to believe, but don’t try to take away anyone else’s right to believe as they choose. Also too, if you don’t find Anderson’s Preachings hateful, I suspect that
the afterlife might surprise you.
MIke S:
Anyone who tells us all with utter conviction and supreme confidence in their omniscience that God said this or that has narrowed their mind to such a sliver that no prying by your logic is likely to make it budge. Sassy is a mindless reciter of cherry-picked passages hoping for some cache among this crowd. Good luck to her. Her best advice was if you don’t like what she has to mouth, don’t read it. Done and done.
GWLawSchoolMom RE: you asked a question. I gave an answer.
Fair enough.
I don’t quite agree though; maybe that is the problem.
It seems to me that so many of the people who are identified as “hate speakers” are assumed to have, even be filled by, the emotion of hate. When I look at them, I don’t see it, and, of course, being in a “state of hatred” is not a legal element of hate crimes.
mespo writes: Sassy is a mindless reciter of cherry-picked passages hoping for some cache among this crowd. Good luck to her. Her best advice was if you don’t like what she has to mouth, don’t read it. Done and done.
what I resent and will continue to resent is the notion that adults with 4 to 6 decades of experience stomping the terra are vulnerable to trading in our entire world view because someone like sassy shows up and pasts a few bible verses on a blog.
evangelists, the worst sort, always think that they have the secret key… the magic sequence of bible verses that will affect the change they seek in others, that will bring our error into sharp relief and compel us to believe as they do, worship as they do.
it isnt like we all have not been given the adult choice to transfer our religious or spiritual beliefs. we are not idiots. we were not reared in the forest by wolves. we know what the church is and who the church claims jesus was. we have the option to to enter any christian house of worship at any time or check into a hotel and open the bible they stash in the drawer for such occasions. the world does not need evangelicals ringing doorbells. maybe this was the only way, the best way to sell their product 1700 years ago. it is isn’t anymore. we have christian tv now. or we can just pop into Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility to check it out for ourselves.
I really dislike being told what I should do, what I need to do and what my current beliefs or lack thereof are doing to anyone else. I don’t ignore. I don’t.
martin writes: It seems to me that so many of the people who are identified as “hate speakers” are assumed to have, even be filled by, the emotion of hate. When I look at them, I don’t see it, and, of course, being in a “state of hatred” is not a legal element of hate crimes.
maybe its time to take a closer and longer look at the history of hate, political hate, social hate. not “I hate New Coke” but “I have blacks and jews and asians and hispanics. I don’t come clean with this in most places, but when I find like-minded folks, we like to talk about these others being inferior and would love to be able to do something about it”
these people don’t run around with pitchforks, faces twisted in wretched emotion. they seem normal and rational most of the time. they go to work and love their kids. they are ordinary people. they are your neighbors. the people who own shops in your town. they may be your kid’s pediatrician or your tax attorney or your pastor. and when they feel that they just can’t take it anymore, the jewish banking conspiracy or illegal hispanics doing all that yard work and charging “white” rates, or uppity blacks in national office they act out. maybe they use words only.
maybe this escalates.
but it is still bigotry and hate and they are very adept at passing their prejudice through the generations until their superstitions and beliefs of inferiority of the “other” are finally granted permission to be acted upon.
“what I resent and will continue to resent is the notion that adults with 4 to 6 decades of experience stomping the terra are vulnerable to trading in our entire world view because someone like sassy shows up and pasts a few bible verses on a blog.”
GWLSM,
There is nothing I can add to this summation of what are also my own feelings on the subject save that I have found myself enraged when approached on the street by some pimply faced “Jews for Jesus” types, Christian proselytizers, or LDS teenagers on a mission. I am not one to quickly lose my temper, but the smug stupidity of their attempts is something I find insufferable.
As to Sassy, my guess is she’s a recent convert and thus uses her verses to protect her from what she’s as impulses from her baser nature.
Mike S writes: GWLSM,
There is nothing I can add to this summation of what are also my own feelings on the subject save that I have found myself enraged when approached on the street by some pimply faced “Jews for Jesus” types, Christian proselytizers, or LDS teenagers on a mission. I am not one to quickly lose my temper, but the smug stupidity of their attempts is something I find insufferable.
As to Sassy, my guess is she’s a recent convert and thus uses her verses to protect her from what she’s as impulses from her baser nature.
I used to volunteer with Jews for Judaism and found it really gratifying. developing strategies to protect vulnerable Jews from J4J proselytization and vulnerable college students from Campus Crusade for Christ was incredibly gratifying and helping people learn that Jesus, very simply, is not the jewish messiah in any real or imaginary sense is at the core of our goal to keep Jews Jewish unless and until conversion is their ultimate choice.
I think Sassy and people like Sassy are simply indoctrinated with the recent mandate to christianize Judaism and thereby gain more converts. its easier to do this when the lines between to very exclusive belief systems are blurred enough. many J4J’s have been doing this for decades, but what I know is that they are mostly failing and can go into that in greater detail if anyone is interested.
oh, and for the record, I have no problem with any belief system that captures anyone’s imagination. what gives others hope and joy is none of my business and I’m happy for them if they find comfort in any system of belief or lack thereof.
I just ask that they leave me and my family in peace and respect our privacy.
Professor Turley,
Thanks for your response to my previous post. I asked about the rumors that certain Federal agencies had talked to Mr. Anderson about his comments. You responded with a short defense of the First Amendment. I completely agree with your position.
Never-the-less I worry that this sort of speech may incite real violence against our first African-American president. I am sure that I am not alone in this concern. Even an unsuccesful attempt on the President’s life would unleash an unimaginable torrent of hate and fear.
This is a big request and probably much too unfocused for this site. Will you give me a brief brief (I am sure that only one of these is necessary) on what the statutes and case law say about the First Amendment and the incitement to violence? Is this one of those situations where the violence has to occur first?
I love your site and read it daily.
Thanks.