I wanted to ask the people on this blog if they have had the same bizarre experience that I have just had with Apple. I have been a lifelong Apple user and have literally owned every major model since the first Apple computer. I also use the iPhone. That is, until this week when I encountered the imMACulate submersion defense — a claim by Apple that my dead iPhone had been submerged in water when it has never been wet, let alone submerged.
Frankly, my experience with the iPhone has been horrible. My phone has never functioned correctly since I bought it in February with the phone turning off suddenly or going into loops. Ironically, even the belt holder that I bought at the Apple store broke within two months.
However, I was able to just turn the phone on and off with its repeated malfunctions. That is until my recent speech in Houston when the phone literally died before my eyes. It went into one of its loops with a little pinwheel icon and then shut off. From that point on, it would not take a charge or stay on.
I went into the Tysons Corner Apple store and encountered a “Mac Genius” who promptly told me that I should not have submerged the phone. He said that a “submersion light” was on. I immediately told them that the phone had never been wet — let alone submerged. The manager looked at me skeptically and offered to look at the two internal submersion lights which could prove it was submerged. I encouraged him to do so. He came back and admitted that the two lights were not on and did not show submersion. However, he still refused to replace the phone because it was submerged. I told him that this was positively ridiculous. I would not fight over a lousy $200 bucks but it is entirely impossible that this phone was ever submerged. I would have had to be submerged with it because it never leaves my belt. They could have a “dingo chewing” light but it would not make it true.
The geniuses said that they believed me but if one light was on, it was technically submerged even if it wasn’t. I proceeded to call the corporate headquarters to get an idea of how this non-submersion submersion works. I have not received an explanation on the submersion of warranty policies.
The funny thing is that I do not even pay for the phone, but I hate to buy a new phone based on something that I know to be patently false.
What is interesting is that my secretary had to replace her iPhone when the charger caught on fire. When she went in, the geniuses quickly grabbed that melted charger, put it out of sight, and gave her a new one as if she had put a severed head on the counter.
Of course, I now have something to use in the Turley Trebuchet that is a modern equivalent to a diseased animal.
Has anyone else encountered Apple’s submersion mystery?
UPDATE: Thanks to Nal, it appears that this is a problem beyond my phone going out for a secret shvitz without my knowledge: here:
Apple places one sensor in the iPhone headphone jack and one adjacent to the dock connector (pictured). But according to a number of reports from news organizations and consumers, these sensors have been known to give false positives.
UPDATE: Apple has replaced my phone. I am once again in communication with the world.
I can’t remember the brand, but a client had me handle her cell phone return for her and the manufacturer was very insistent that she had gotten it wet. Insistent beyond the point of rudeness.
I’m sorry to hear that Apple is playing the same game now. I’ve been on a Mac since 1990, and the more money they make, the more they’ve started to turn into real a**holes.
“They could have a “dingo eating” light but it would not make it true.”
_________________________________
Sentences like that are why you just gotta read this blawg.
I am looking into a powerful desktop computer and at one point, I considered a Mac Pro. However, after reading some owners’ reviews and the $1000.00 plus cost above a comparable PC, I have decided against an Apple purchase.
Another main reason was the recent lawsuit Apple has against “Australia’s Woolworths for trademark infringement over the use of the new logo” that I learned about within this blawg.
A company has too much ‘fool’s gold’ if they file what appears to me to be a frivolous or ‘I’m too big to fight or fail’ style of lawsuit.
I have, however, purchased many MP3 songs from i-Tunes, although I prefer Rhapsody. Amazon is now offering an abundance of MP3s, a market that i-Tunes once had ‘cornered’.
Maybe you should call a lawyer?
Thats why I like my MotoQ or did until it died the black screen of death….
can you say “Class Action”?
You’re not alone:
Apple iPhone Abuse Detection Sensors: Who Is Abusing Whom?
Apple places one sensor in the iPhone headphone jack and one adjacent to the dock connector (pictured). But according to a number of reports from news organizations and consumers, these sensors have been known to give false positives.
Very interesting Nal, I added that link to the entry. The funny thing is that the geniuses insisted that these lights are never wrong and had never heard of a claim of a false signal.
You don’t need a submersion light to tell you that Apple’s business model is “all wet.”
Maybe you should bring the problem with your IPhone and Apple’s policy the next time you have a play date with your friends at MSNBC.
I refuse to believe this. Everyone knows that Apple isn’t even a company, it’s a collection of benevolent and enlightened hippies and artists who just want to do cool things with technology for the good of all mankind.
It’s a detection problem (that is, trying to answer the question did event x happen or not?). There will always be false positives and false negatives. You happened to be one of the unlucky ones.
Here’s a slashdot thread about the subject: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/08/06/1733253/Apple-Working-On-Tech-To-Detect-Purchasers-Abuse?from=rss
And, for what it’s worth, Apple has a long history of anti-consumer behavior. So don’t be surprised when they try and fuck you over to make a buck. They’ve done it plenty of times.
If the “genius” was calling the sensor a “light” then there’s part of the problem. In the same way that Homeland Security’s recent announcement that they were going to hire “1000 cybersecurity experts” is problematic – there aren’t 1000 such people in the world, let alone 1000 who would (or would be allowed to) work for the government. There aren’t enough Mac “slightly enlightened” people, (let alone “geniuses”) to staff all their stores. It shouldn’t surprise me that these fine examples of human beings would claim that they knew nothing of false-positives. Bah!
I’m no engineer, but I have a hard time imagining how such an “immersion” sensor could actually differentiate “immersion” from other wet conditions. Any surface will be subject to condensation – take a cold object into a warm, relatively humid environment, and liquid water will condense on the cold surface. Unless your belt storage device (?) was a pouch, the phone could also have been exposed to some rain droplets, which hardly qualifies as “immersion.” It’s also wesaly of Apple to take the position that any one sensor being tripped means that they absolve themselves of responsibility for any other problems with the unit. Not cool. (If this issue is wide enough spread, it would be interesting to check a sample of the phones that are “in the wild” for false-positives and positives on fully functioning phones.)
To take a step back, this is part of why Apple held off for so long in entering the phone market. They now have literally millions of units in the hands of millions of people expecting their phones to be as solid as the Apple desktops of the good old days (ah, the Quadra series…) Those phones are out in more harsh conditions than any laptop endures, so obviously they are going to fail more often. It’s too bad that Apple has decided to dick customers around rather than just replace wonky phones.
They know the phone was immersed.
It’s just like the time they told me I could not return a book because the book had been to the bathroom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bookstore
They know everything.
And they are out to get us.
Something else about the iphones I have heard about:
Apple: Exploding iPhones Not Our Fault
JR Raphael, PC World
Aug 28, 2009 4:31 pm
…”In all cases, the glass cracked due to an external force that was applied to the iPhone,” a London-based spokesperson [for Apple} tells Bloomberg.”
http://www.pcworld.com/article/171065/apple_exploding_iphones_not_our_fault.html
———-
Apparently Apple doesn’t doesn’t change it’s argument much, it’s always the fault of the customer no matter what the problem.
If you plan on replacing your iphone with another one I’d keep it off my belt, what with all that ‘splodn and all.
I am a lifelong Apple customer, every gadget, every improvement. So in September when I got my newest, greatest iphone I was so very happy and content – for exactly 6 days when my loop-hell began. It was like the damn thing was on meth, just going and going and going on loop mode. I went through 2 charges in the first 5 days since the charger it came with sparked and spit. So I took my problem product to the nice techies at Appleville and they told me “you must have overcharged it” which is why the phone was now in full blown loop mode.
My discussion with him about faulty product and delusional conclusions was quite astounding. The supervisor refused to replace the phone. Calls to hdqtrs resulted in 2 operators telling me “you must have a dysfunctional electrical connection in your home to cause the overcharge which resulted in the phone malfunction which we are not liable for”.
wtf???
It is on my list of things to pursue in coming weeks. For now I am concentrating on getting through chemo, but when I get some strength and anger back the people at Apple are first on my list!
Blessing JT, this blog keeps me sane!
Good luck Ashlie.
It seems to me that is should be possible to design a battery charger for phones that trickle charges or shuts OFF after a certain peak voltage. I have many AC/DC chargers and I have lived with a home solar system with an inverter for power for 27 years. Batteries are definitely the weak link in any power scheme.
I am pretty sure that Apple uses the 3M 5557 Water Contact Indicator Tape.
Here are some data sheets on it. http://tinyurl.com/ykwxs8v
Of course, there’s this:
“So, the CIA, in 1999, set up an investment arm called In-Q-Tel that sort of makes investments in technologies that the spy agencies would like to see grow. And their latest investment is in this company called Visible, which basically takes blog posts and takes Twitter updates and takes comments on YouTube videos and sort of sorts them out and decides which people have the most weight in the blogosphere, which people are the most influential, and also filters out, you know, certain key words, decides whether certain posts are hostile or positive. And it’s basically a way for them to sort of keep track on what’s going on in Twitter, on the blogs, etc., etc.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/22/cia_invests_in_software_firm_monitoring
Just an observation. We have had an abundance of new posters/commenters and the blawg is running along like a well-oiled machine.
Thanks for the good dialog, Folks.
Former Federal LEO 1, October 22, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Just an observation. We have had an abundance of new posters/commenters and the blawg is running along like a well-oiled machine.
Thanks for the good dialog, Folks.
***************
Sir I was noticing the same and it has been funny some of the witticism that has been put out here. I think Elaine M’s “Cafe Au Lay” yesterday was funny. Tea started going up and out my nose when I read that.
It is nice to hear all of the new voices.
Phantom Phone Call
Tim O’Brien
(Cornbread Nation, admin. by Bluewater Music, ASCAP)
http://www.timobrien.net/Lyrics2.cfm?ID=183
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
You feel it vibrate, you reach for the cell
But no one’s there, that’s how you tell
You felt that phantom phone when it calls
I read all about it in the morning news
I read all about it in the morning news
Doctors are hearin about it a lot
Phantom phone syndrome is what you got
I read all about it in the morning news
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
You feel it vibrate, you reach for the cell
But no one’s there, that’s how you tell
You felt that phantom phone when it calls
Phantom phone calls weighin on my worried mine
Phantom phone calls weighin on my worried mine
Six months since you went awy
Six times I felt you call today
Phantom phone calls weighin on my worried mine
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
You feel it vibrate, you reach for the cell
But no one’s there, that’s how you tell
You felt that phantom phone when it calls
The mobile phone is a threat to the human race
The mobile phones is a threat to the human race
Up by your ear it’s bad for your brain
In your pocket it’s a sperm count drain
The mobile phones are a threat to the human race
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
Have you felt that phantom phone when it calls
You feel it vibrate, you reach for the cell
But no one’s there, that’s how you tell
You felt that phantom phone when it calls
AY @ 9:26pm “It is nice to hear all of the new voices.”
Yes indeed; but where is our good buddy BIL? 
“We have had an abundance of new posters/commenters and the blawg is running along like a well-oiled machine.”
*************
Now we need Patty C and Buddha to chime in to finish the table setting. Where are those two?
If it’s any reference, George Bush used the same kind of sensors to detect WMD.
CEJ 1, October 23, 2009 at 12:29 am
AY @ 9:26pm “It is nice to hear all of the new voices.”
Yes indeed; but where is our good buddy BIL? 
*********************
It would be nice to hear Buddha’s Chants and incantations of witticism, especially of late.
mespo727272 1, October 23, 2009 at 1:14 am
“We have had an abundance of new posters/commenters and the blawg is running along like a well-oiled machine.”
*************
Now we need Patty C and Buddha to chime in to finish the table setting. Where are those two?
**************************************
I agree, I do think it is nice that everyone seems to be playing nice and if one have reinvented themselves and is here I hope that they continue to play well with others.
The comments mespo have all been to forward the site which I think is good. So long as personal attacks stay at bey, then everyone should have a right to play.
I may not agree with what everyone says and may not even read all the way though, but I do not have the right to attack anyone personally about personal things. Would you not agree?
I may not agree with Jill but she has not caused me any grief. Nor has anyone gone out of the way to tell her how wrong she is and it is a pleasure to hear her views on other subjects. I think you know what I mean.
I guess I’m a Luddite, as I’m still happily limping along with a Blackberry Curve (used for data only) and a Motorola cell phone. I even still like email and detest the concept of Twitter, though I am LinkedIn. Worst of all, I confess I’m a PC. So I went in to Verizon to get the periodic new phone and felt mildly seduced by convergence and touch screens and all, and the iPhone clones (they don’t provide the Apple version of the fruit). After a brief trip down Demo Lane, I just kept it simple and got a new Motorola. Neither it nor its predecessors have ever finked out on me. I can actually talk to people, from practically anywhere, and it doesn’t drop calls. It goes on, and off, when I tell it to. They have significantly improved battery life, another low-tech attraction to Old School guys like me. I guess we all like a little positive reinforcement on occasion and this string gives me a lot. Many thanks.
I like to play music in my clay studio so I got one of those ipod music players. when it gets warm the thing goes into a strange sequence and then won’t play or shut off. I can restart it — but each time it gets harder and harder. the people at the apple store can’t explain it and tell me that it should not be getting warm at all.
the thing to consider is not that one gets bad customer service… and btw, just for laughs maybe you could try another Apple store…. see what happens when you get a second opinion. I did this with my IMac when it was doing odd things to my email.
the thing to consider is this… who makes your stuff? your gizmos and gadgets and electronics? It isn’t made here. It’s manufactured by a large Chinese contract manufacturer who when faced with quality problems just throws more people at the problem. the people are often abused by their managers are neither encouraged or rewarded for showing any initiative. All Apple products, most HP products are made by this one company based in Taiwan.
sometime i’ll tell you how I know this.
Two months ago I bought my wife and daughter IPhones and I’ve regretted it ever since. My wife is so into it that occasionally I’ll wake in the early morning to find her in bed twittering away. While I can also surf the net on my cell phone, I never have. There is something about being too in touch with the world that disturbs me. I’m not a luddite, but I remember when we got our first video camera and I would be the one to dutifully record my kids plays and music solos. I stopped doing it when I realized that taping a child’s performance interfered with the pleasure of enjoying it. I have the same feeling about IPhones, Blackberry’s, etc. I know how busy you are Professor, but give it up and smell the roses.
AY:
“I may not agree with what everyone says and may not even read all the way though, but I do not have the right to attack anyone personally about personal things. Would you not agree?”
************
Indeed, I do. Who wouldn’t agree with that?
mespo,
I have not seen Buddha around, no pun intended, do you have any ideal what is up? The only other one have you heard from them and do you know if they intend to post any remarks on the Blawg? I hope that they do.
Well this was an extremely informative and entertaining thread to read.
Out here on the wilds of the Lake Erie shoreline, not many natives have iPhones and those that did returned them due mainly to coverage issues.
I, however, am starting the process of purchasing a new computer and after reading these comments and going to some of the other sites suggested; I won’t be buying an Apple product, which is the computer I was seriously considering. A smart shopper pays attention to word of mouth (word of blog) especially concerning customer service issues.
Comment, for what it’s worth: I have had LG phones for years and never experienced a single problem. I switched from Sprint to Verizon many years ago and have enjoyed excellent coverage even when traveling through remote areas out West. Verizon’s customer service is on target and they always find some way to save me a few dollars.
Blouise,
Are you looking for a desktop in the $3700.00 range? I know of a potential company if that is what you are looking for.
I am moving away from laptops/notebooks given the small cooling fans, their higher internal temps–partly because everything is cramped–and they are harder to clean the dust, et cetera out of the case.
I’m going to swim against the tide a bit Blouise, and give Apple a good review on the MaxBook Pro. I got the 19″ with expanded HD and fastest co-processing available as a gift and its major limitation is my skill level with it and lifestyle. With a good wi-fi connection it’s so fast it seems to break the time barrier- I’m not sure if I actually hit the enter key before the screen changes.
My skill level with it is low but I mess with it and fumble into apps that make me go ‘wow, I can do THAT!?’ regularly. My life and interests are built around things that make a PC more useful to me- I play with my MacBook primarily to marvel at it. It’s screen has a stunning image. I have never had a problem with it (2 yrs old) and every time I’ve visited the local Apple store for info or help installing something etc. I’ve gotten good treatment.
If I had a lifestyle that needed a laptop I’d live on it and be a happy camper. The drawbacks are that it’s heavy and you need to be fluent in Mac, the more fluent the better to get the most out of it. It gets hot but I’m not sure if it gets hotter than other laptops. I’ve used (gamer-speed) fast PC’s with all the hardware upgrades (and always go for a custom build) since for 20+ yrs and my now ‘old’ MacBook still blows me away every time I open it.
The big problem with it is that there is no actual document for it. I’m a reader and if you gave me a 300 page ‘how to’ document for my new computer or software I’d read it with relish and refer to it often. You can stumble into useful knowledge with books you miss with specific searches. If you’re a PC based person you will have to start from scratch with Mac-speak and all your documentation is on line. It’s hard to make the conversion if you’ve been hard-wired for or evolved with Windows based PC’s. The local Apple store has a deal that for $100.00 a year you can attend 52 once a week, 1 hour, help/learning desk classes with one on one help/teaching. Every time I’ve been in the store there are 3-4 people at the learning desk.
I’m embarrassed that I can’t really do my MacBook justice except occasionally and by accident. It’s still an awesome machine though and I don’t use the word ‘awesome’ often.
Former Federal LEO: and
Yes, please give me the name as I too am going back to a desktop. I have a Vaio 17” laptop, which is about 5 years old and still working well, but for all the reasons you mentioned, and more, I want to go back to a desktop.
lottakatz:
I will certainly factor what you wrote into my decision. My first computer was a self-contained single unit Mac with a 9” screen. I learned on that machine but switched to a PC (Windows) in the early 90’s.
Blouise,
I will make another post soon with the machine I am looking to purchase.
I have an HP and owned Gateways and then Dells at work. However, stay away for HP because of many problems with their laptops(nVidia video failures) and their e9150t and e9180t units. Some people are on their 3rd HP e9150/80t just since last summer. The motherboards are failing almost immediately.
Here is a link to the forum with many people with problems (2,130 posts since mid-July) and several hundred more in similar threads.
I was about 4 days away from purchasing a $3,2000 e9180t when I read this forum thread:
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/psg/board/message?board.id=lockups&thread.id=895
Blouise,
This is the unit, below, among several other on the site that I am seriously looking at purchasing. I must do something soon because my high-end $3400.00 HP laptop fan quit and I am starting to experience the nVidia video crash that many hundreds of people worldwide are having (Several Class Action lawsuits are being explored and you can Google all of the information–HP Nvidia failures, et cetera).
Dell and Apple had the same nVidia problems but unlike HP, they are fixing the customers’ video systems. Did I mention to stay away for HP! My computer is just over 2 years old and most of the video failures occured at that time or sooner.
http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=2
You can really configure this and other Velocity Micro’s machines. This unit was the CNET Editors Choice for Nov 1988. I have *never* purchased from them, but read the website material and visit the forum. The reviews are very good and the construction looks excellent. This desktop is about $3200.00 to about $4,000.00 with a 22″ of 26″ monitor and software, Windows 7. They have more expensive models. A big plus: there is no bundled bloatware like Dell or HP (especially)
Um, that is Cnet Editor’s Choice for 2008. I was back in the Atari days at 1988.
Blouise. My place of business started using Mac way back but I was always one transfer behind the organizations (branches, divisions) that converted to Mac so I had no experience with it. I did want to have some access path into Mac World because Mac handled graphics better back in the day. I have NEVER heard a bad word about Mac from people that have a lot of experience with it or that grew up with it. I kid you not. People that ‘grew up’ with Windows who are forced to switch have generally trashed Mac in conversations with me but I chalked that up to an inability to make a smooth transition. I’m having that problem myself but it’s me, not he hardware.
My Mac Book was a phenomenal gift but (dare the words leave my mouth) totally inappropriate- I am totally out-classed by it and I can’t use it for shit. It was to transform (in a good way) my computing experience but I’ve never been able to live up to that potential
I think the Mac model and code is better than the Windows model from what I have read and heard. And of course, the fact that every time I get the blue screen of death on my PC I just have to wonder why, after all these years and billions of dollars of R&D and profit, Windows’ still can’t seem to get it right.
Regarding desktops: My last (current) computer was put together with a stripped drive, two drives that act as one- makes the beast faster- and it worked great until one drive failed. Obviously if one fails both fail and ALL data is lost. There are ways to potentially rescue the data on the good drive but they are expensive unless you are capable of doing it yourself and have the hardware and software. I don’t.
If your the kind of person that keeps a LOT of data on your PC and like a fast machine it is a deadly trade-off even with regular backups to an external drive or drives. I replaced the defective HD and left the one good drive as a separate, partitioned drive but there is a slight and (with some apps) a noticeable difference in response speed from the dual drive configuration. Not much but there and noticeable. Not crucial either.
If you’re into apps that are memory intensive, you like going fast, and you go for a non-Mac computer, factor that trade off into your decision if you are presented with dual drive mode hardware. The bloom is off the dual drive mode for me. Losing 200+ gigs of data on a bad drive is one thing- loosing another 200+ gigs on a perfectly good drive is a whole ‘nother kinda thing. Man, when are they going to get that ‘room-temperature’ super conductivity stuff in play?
LottaK, I would take a MacPro if someone gave it to me.
A comparable MacPro–if one was even available–to the Velocity Micro machine is an addtional $1200.00 and with 1/2 the memory. If I were doing video editing or GIS work, I might still get a MacPro. I have searched mac desktops specs/configs out for the past 6 months and compared Apple 9 ways to Sunday with many brands of PCs and Apple just does not offer the configuration that I want, especially in their $4500.00 desktop.
Mike,
I had a surreal experience with technology while hunting this year. My brother and I were waiting for the other two hunters to return to the truck (they had taken an ATV out to get a deer one of them had bagged), and he showed me an application on his Black-berry in which you mimicked the action of loading and shooting various types of guns, and it’d make a half-way decent gunshot sound.
We had 2 nice rifles, a couple of boxes of ammo, targets, etc. and were 100 feet away from a shooting range.
Blouise–
I was going to buy a laptop last November. Instead I opted for a Sony Vaio–VGC-JS 100 Series–after I saw it in the store. It’s an all-in-one desktop. It has a big screen and a keyboard that’s more finger/hand friendly than others I’ve used. That’s a real plus for me because I spend so much time writing. I love my computer. My husband liked it so much that he went out and got one for himself a month later. He also has a Macbook, which he likes. He’s gotten excellence service from the Apple store near us.
Gyges,
My point exactly. I love electronics and gadgets, but they are seductive to a degree that undermines ones’ self awareness of even being hooked. your example was a perfect example. logically, why in hell wouldn’t you want to have the real experience and yet the erzatz one lured both you and your friend in.
Former Federal LEO, lottakatz, Elaine M.:
Thank you, one and all … this has been most helpful.
Get a Droid.