In a surprise verdict, a jury acquitted former judge Herman Thomas of sexual abuse, attempted sodomy, and assault related to allegations that he brought inmates to his chambers for sex and spankings. The judge insisted that he brought the men to his office to “mentor” them, but prosecutors put forward evidence of semen on the carpet and testimony of numerous former inmates that they had sex with him or allowed him to spank them for lenient treatment.
After being acquitted by the jury on major counts (but hanging on other counts), the trial judge directed a verdict on all counts in favor of Thomas.
This is a major victory for defense attorney Robert Clark who insisted that the judge was “trying to get them to do right, to be productive citizens.” Prosecutors put forward evidence that placed a different meaning on what Thomas thought was “getting them to do right” or be “productive.” However, some of their witnesses had to be dropped and one said that he was pressured to implicate the judge by his defense lawyer, here.
Thomas is now going to seek the reinstatement of his law license.
For the full story, click here
As we discussed in another current thread, maybe we should re-think the jury system.
“However, some of their witnesses had to be dropped and one said that he was pressured to implicate the judge by his defense lawyer, here.”
Does this mean that his defense attorney tried to implicate the judge or does this mean that another defense attorney tried to get his client to implicate they judge?
Either way this is a real blow to the Prosecutor.
Another thought, why did the Trial Judge do this? “After being acquitted by the jury on major counts (but hanging on other counts), the trial judge directed a verdict on all counts in favor of Thomas.”
What were the counts dismissed? Can the Prosecutor get a second bite at the apple? What was the composite of the Jury panel?
This one leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
Now you tell me:
“Justice is a contract of expediency, entered upon to prevent men harming or being harmed.
Epicurus (341 BC – 270 BC)”
The verdict did not surprise to me. The evidence he paddled the inmates was strong, but he was not charged for that because it would have been only a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations had expired. The sexual abuse case was very weak with the majority of witnesses testifying no sexual abuse took place. At least one witness who claimed sexual abuse had a story that seemed not credible, and the rest lacked details which one would expect if actual sexual abuse took place. These facts strongly supported the defense’s suggestion that the inmates “slanted” their testimony for the prosecution in order to obtain more lenient treatment. The semen evidence is puzzling, but even if it were not planted, it allegedly came from one of the prisoners, was not explained at trial and did not strongly support the prosecution’s theory that the judge was sexually gratifying himself. In the end, this was a weak case and the jury’s verdict is not surprising.
Seeing is believing:
No racial intent here. But I guess this gives new meaning to spanking the monkey.
Sorry, my humor is bad…..
I don’t understand what “the monkey” would be, and how this would give new meaning to “spanking the monkey”. Especially in the context of Blacks often being referred to as monkeys by racists and white supremacists, whatever that joke did intend, it is not funny.
Play It All Night Long
by Warren Zevon
Grandpa pissed his pants again
He don’t give a damn
Brother Billy has both guns drawn
He ain’t been right since Vietnam
“Sweet home Alabama”
Play that dead band’s song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long
Daddy’s doing Sister Sally
Grandma’s dying of cancer now
The cattle all have brucellosis
We’ll get through somehow
“Sweet home Alabama”
Play that dead band’s song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long
Alan 1, October 27, 2009 at 10:19 am
I don’t understand what “the monkey” would be, and how this would give new meaning to “spanking the monkey”. Especially in the context of Blacks often being referred to as monkeys by racists and white supremacists, whatever that joke did intend, it is not funny.
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Let us stop this train where it is in the station right here right now. This is the usage intended not racial in the least.
2. spanking the monkey
waxing the carrot, choking the bishop, jacking the beanstock, yankee-ing the doodle,peting the one eyed wonder weasel, waxing the wood, caulking the cracks, jacking off, wanking.
Link: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spanking+the+monkey
final report from al.com
http://blog.al.com/live/2009/10/herman_thomas_acquitted_on_all.html
timeline
http://blog.al.com/live/2009/10/herman_thomas_timeline_from_pr.html
AY:
you forgot about cuffing the puppy and whuppin the woolly?
And how about bangin the cracker, now that just might have racial undertones.
So then why would it give “new” meaning to spanking the monkey?
Alan,
I personally do not feel that what this Judge did was without merit. I think in his heart he felt that he was doing the correct thing and who knows what the recidivist rate actually is or was.
The penal institution (No Pun or Racial usage intended) is more of a warehouse where incorrigible children become bad kids and turn into actual criminal with a whole lot of bad information that they learn from the prison experience. They learn new trades in the brotherhood. They learn to survive and from what I understand you have to trust someone to watch you back and you do have to prove yourself or you end up dead or somebody’s bitch.
As I said earlier, I think that his ideal bad some redeeming value. Who knows? I know what we are doing now is clearly not working.
chris 1, October 27, 2009 at 10:45 am
So then why would it give “new” meaning to spanking the monkey?
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I guess maybe the Judge do the spanking? Have you ever been spanked by a Judge? I haven’t….
If you will look at the other posts you will see that I have possibly defended this man. Think about that.
But really, in your mind I am a racists and white supremacists. All because of humor, now what is that word that black people can use that whites can’t or they are considered a racist? It starts with ____?
@AY: I tend to agree with you, that the Judge had good intentions but in the end it was a very bad idea. I also suspect that somewhere along the way he had a bad mentor himself, like a nun in Catholic school who called him into her office and then explained how the paddling he was about to receive would show him the error of his ways, open his heart to the Lord, and help him to one day become a productive citizen. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I myself experienced paddling in elementary school in Texas.
Alan,
…. I also suspect that somewhere along the way he had a bad mentor himself, like a nun in Catholic school who called him into her office and then explained how the paddling he was about to receive would show him the error of his ways, open his heart to the Lord, and help him to one day become a productive citizen. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I myself experienced paddling in elementary school in Texas.
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I was in the Office so much as a kid that I feel most comfortable there. I got spanked, damn I got spanked. I remember my Dad had to go to school with me because I had bruises on my ass from being spanked so often. I think they must have talked techniques after that I still got spanked but no bruises. Hmm, This is one reason that I never spanked my children. Now talk, yell, scream that was a different issue.
Texas, 1967, 68 and 69 the years of Northland Elementary School, Humble, Texas. Good ole Mr. Towsend. I do not recall his first name as that was improper for children at that time to do. You were PG, not pregnant. My, my things have changed.
Who was it who said, “Your fate is in the hands of 12 people who weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty.”
@AY: I was only 40 miles from you
Alan,
LaPorte, Baytown or North like Magnolia?
Thought I would do this pumpkin, this year. No, not do the pumpkin but make this one.
http://images.meredith.com/parents/images/2008/08/ss_101273734.jpg
Prairie View
Alan,
My condolences having to live so close to, whats that other schools name? Texas A and something…..
You know the main campus was men’s only and some turned a hissy fit when women were allowed to go to school there….
Prairie View A&M University. My dad taught there for one year on sabbatical. Everyone was very friendly and my memories of Prairie View are overall very good.
a demonstration of how juries sometimes come up with compromise verdicts…
“A jury member in the Herman Thomas trial says had he known the judge was going to rule not guilty once jurors couldn’t reach a decision, he ‘would have stood his ground.’ … The juror, who did not want to be identified, said the jury thought it was going to be a hung jury.”
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/jurors_speak_day_after_thomas_ruling
In other news, “Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said he likely would have dissented from the historic 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision that declared school segregation illegal and struck down the system of ’separate but equal’ public schools”
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/146308
Alan,
Prairie View A&M University. My dad taught there for one year on sabbatical. Everyone was very friendly and my memories of Prairie View are overall very good.
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Well we are a friendly lot here in Texas. I am just sorry that you had to be exposed to that Other school. You can recover if you wish even as traumatic as an experience that that A& whats is that again. I am just traumatized just thinking that they were able to steal THE University money out of the PUF.
On 28 May 1923, the Santa Rita No. 1 oil well, in Reagan County discovered the first oil on PUF land; in the following decades, the PUF’s revenue made UT Austin among the best-endowed in the nation.
See Alan you just can’t get better than that. Then some jack ass in the legislature redirected THE UNIVERSITYS money to that other system.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_University_Fund
Again, accept my condolences for being exposed to that theft.
I am only fuuna ya.
Alan,
Thank you for the link. In response to the Sct. It is my understanding that a Judge is not to comment on cases former, current or pending except through a written opinion.
I wonder if Scalia is going to want to run for President or something like that. Usually they go from the Whitehouse to the Sct not the other way around.
I believe JQA was the only one to go on to be a legislator.
Adams was elected a U.S. Representative from Massachusetts after leaving office, the only president ever to do so, serving for the last 17 years of his life. In the House he became a leading opponent of the Slave Power and argued that if a civil war ever broke out the president could abolish slavery by using his war powers, which Abraham Lincoln partially did during the American Civil War in the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams
I guess I had forgotten that Monroe was the 5th. If I would have bet on this I would have said Washington was the first, Adams, Jefferson, Madison the Adam’s. Heck, I had to google it up and it was Monroe, James that was the 5th President. I guess you forget the honest ones first. From what I understand he was too honest to be in office.
Maybe Hillary as SOS is positing herself as Adams did while Monroes SOS…..
correction: it had been reported that Justice Scalia was misquoted
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2009/10/justice-scalia-comes-clean-on-brown-v.html
Alan,
I must censor what you read. I read the article and link and I am aghast. If Scalia really stated this and it out of the article:
“Hitler developed a wonderful automobile,” Scalia said. “What does that prove?”
I will ask you does this clown (Scalia) not remember that it was not Hitler that created any such automobile. It had already been created in France in the late 1800, hence “Auto Mobile” and at the time frame he speaks he is talking about Italy as well and it was run by a communist manifesto as well. Think “Rome, Berlin Tokyo, Axis” not that I am the brightest bulb in the box but I could really do better. Maybe he is Sicilian, they have there own culture. Not wise to mess with them.
Back to the statement: He built the entire manufacturing plant on the backs of slave labor. Yeah,and a certain family profited off of the slave labor by financing these plants in Nazi Germany whose American Assets were frozen by FDR as conducting business with the enemy act. My how names have changed but the family remains the same.
Mrspo and AY,
The jury system is still good. You have to take into account that this is Alabama, not the real world.
AY,
If you think paddling was challenging, you should have had the Nuns. I wish I had gotten paddled. I think some of the Nuns were former SERE instructors.
rafflaw,
If you think paddling was challenging, you should have had the Nuns. I wish I had gotten paddled. I think some of the Nuns were former SERE instructors.
Oh, I did get my fair share after it was I was in parochial school. I am unsure if I was a challenge or challenged.
The prosecutor is apparently going to attempt to get the acquittal set aside based on an alleged irregularity in reporting the verdict. Likely a political/publicity stunt, since he must know double jeopardy bars the reinstatement of these charges.
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/da_plans_to_file_motion_in_thomas_case
Alan,
Well if they do it like they do in Texas then it can be set aside. Ford had reached a settlement inquire within the all knowing Turley Site for answers:
http://jonathanturley.org/2009/04/24/texas-supreme-court-overturns-verdict-based-on-nine-word-note-from-foreperson/
It would not surprise me in the least if they were allowed to retry this man on these acquitted charges. I expect that the special master was tired of this case.
That was a civil case. Double jeopardy does not apply to civil cases, but it does apply to criminal cases.
P.S., By “double jeopardy”, I of course mean the Fifth Amendment prohibition on double jeopardy in criminal prosecutions
Alan,
That is correct. It was indeed a civil case. Jeopardy only attaches in criminal proceedings. But once the jury was empaneled Jeopardy attached. The jury dismissed/acquitted on some charges directly and by stating that they were hung it was up the judge to decide as a trier of fact based upon the evidence presented whether to proceed or not. I think the Prosecutor has an up hill burden.
Same basic issue as Ford was it over once a settlement was entered?
In his latest publicity stunt, the prosecutor now says he plans to file a “writ of mandamus” with the appeals court
http://www.al.com/news/press-register/metro.ssf?/base/news/1256721311135050.xml&coll=3
Alan,
In his latest publicity stunt, the prosecutor now says he plans to file a “writ of mandamus” with the appeals court.
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A writ such as this is a request for the higher court to Order the lower court to do something rather than wait for the hope of am expedited Appeal. This rarely happens. However, since the State of Alabama Bar met and declined to reinstate him once the case was dismissed tells me something more is going on behind the scenes.
This will set up some interesting cases to be followed on either side as a lot of what we take for a matter of fact in the judicial system will be toast as we know it.
It will set up Federalism to come about ever so more quickly. I fear that we will only have one body of law and that will be how the special court such as Marshall Law interpret them.
Is the ride over and can I get off yet? Some parts of this make me feel squeamish.
> since the State of Alabama Bar met and declined to reinstate him once the case was dismissed tells me something more is going on behind the scenes
Can you cite a source for that? It is my understanding that following his temporary suspension, further disciplinary proceedings were stayed by mutual agreement pending the outcome of the criminal trial. See http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20091027/APN/910271972
Alan,
You are correct. I thought I have read that somewhere. Even I am wrong sometime, more times than I can count thought, I am sure.
http://www.wkrg.com/alabama/article/verdict-does-not-mean-thomas-will-get-law-license-back/486063/Oct-27-2009_6-38-pm/
The prosecutor now says he wants to depose the jurors about their deliberations
http://blog.al.com/live/2009/10/herman_thomas_case_juror_says.html
One juror gives a very candid interview about the jury deliberations. The jury was reportedly 11 to 1 in favor of conviction on one count of attempted sodomy. http://lagniappemobile.com/articles/2755-thomas-juror-speaks-out
The prosecutor has now reportedly decided not to pursue any post-trial motions
Three jurors complained to the District Attorneys office this week that they didn’t vote “not guilty” in the Thomas case. Late Thursday afternoon, one juror contacted District Attorney John Tyson Jr. and said she didn’t want to be associated with the case anymore. Another says he doesn’t know how he voted and the third says he didn’t want to be the only juror involved in the dispute.
The District Attorney’s office has decided not to file paperwork with an appellate court disputing the Thomas verdict.
http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/story/Jurors-Withdraw-Complaints-In-Herman-Thomas/isVwdv4Wr02RJRHX4QBlnA.cspx
The belated “that’s not the way we voted” story sounded sketchy to me.
http://blog.al.com/live/2009/10/mobile_county_district_attorne_2.html :
Mobile County District Attorney John Tyson Jr. said this afternoon that the Herman Thomas trial is finished after 3 jurors who had come forward with concerns about the not guilty verdicts refused to sign affidavits.
eleven minute interview with the judge (click play on video)
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/alabama/thomas_trial_judge_neilson_speaks_out