Over the years, we have followed hunting accidents (here and here and here) — the subject of an earlier column on “buck fever.” We have a new and tragic such case in Virginia. Ferrum College senior Jessica Goode, 23, went out hiking with friends last week when Jason D. Cloutier, 31, mistook her for a deer. He shot and killed her in the chest with his .35-caliber, high-powered rifle. The bullet went through her chest and into the hand of her friend Regis Boudinot, 20.
Goode was studying the environmental science and loved the woods. She was wearing white at the time of the shooting. Cloutier’s rifle was equipped with a telescopic sight.
Cloutier is now charged with involuntary manslaughter, reckless use of a firearm and trespass. The charges could bring a maximum of 12 years in jail and $5,000 in fines — if convicted. Rural juries are often very sympathetic to hunters in such cases.
Hunting season just began a few days earlier and each year in Franklin County 6,000 deer are killed.
These cases can produce troubling results such as the jury decision in favor of a hunter who shot a woman in her garden in Bangor, Maine. She was viewed as reckless for going out during deer season wearing white mittens and a dark coat, here.
Goode seems like a wonderful person who enjoyed the outdoors and had a promising life ahead of her. It is an unfathomable tragedy for this family and college.
For the full story, click here
this guy is full of BS he was scoping her out and his rifle went off. He was checking out her “equipment” with his scope.
You shouldn’t be using a hunting rifle to indulge your voyeuristic tendencies. I suggest Regis’s hand was the first thing to be hit and that is why this cretin was watching through his scope.
What is the maximum he could get?
More trouble with guns? What a surprise Guns, guns, guns, guns, guns. Doesn’t really matter much how many or who dies needlessly as long as the small minded can have their big guns to play with.
Based on over 18 years of LE that involved game warden duties for at least 4 solid months of hunting seasons during each of those years, this shooter violated all of the fundamental hunting rules.
Excerpt from the linked article:
_________________________________
Quote:
Next to the county property, Cloutier’s in-laws own 78 acres of woods. Cloutier, officials say, does not have a hunting license. Nor can they find a record of his having taken a mandatory hunting safety course. But under Virginia law, he was exempt from both requirements as long as he stayed on his family’s property.
He didn’t, authorities say. “He was knowingly on property he did not have permission to be on,” said Martin, the investigator. The county does not allow hunting on its property.
When Cloutier heard the students approach a hollow in the woods not far from a paved cul de sac, he dropped to one knee and shot.”
__________________________________
Throw the book at this idiot, just like you would a reckless driver. Guns are dangerous, they kill. Anyone that has a loaded gun in their hands should follow one simple rule “never point the gun at anything you’re not one hundred percent sure you want dead.”
Oh my.
If anything, rural juries should be *less* sympathetic to idiots like this. There is no excuse for this type of accident, and the fact that he was both unlicensed and trespassing should piss off even the most lenient of jury members.
I read about this when it happened. Hopefully they ran a toxicological screen on this guy given the facts and his previous felony marijuana conviction. In my experience, there are as many intoxicated hunters out there as intoxicated drivers.
Excerpts from the linked main article:
_________________________________
“Toxicology reports are pending, and law enforcement officials said they might add charges as the investigation continues.
Public records show Cloutier has been arrested on felony marijuana charges..”
_________________________________
millsapian87,
Think, jury of his peers in the context of ‘Deliverance’ after reading in the main article that these are ‘country folk’. As with Claude Dallas—who killed 2 game wardens in cold blood and then put a temple shot in their brains to put them out of their misery as trappers often do with their quarry—juries of the country folk variety tend to be lenient on ‘mountain men’ as well as those who are of their same backwoods guild.
If anything, the paranoia and wobbliness caused by marijuana should have helped prevent this, right? Unless it slipped his mind that he should be looking for deer.
Still, if you want to kill deer you should be doing it with your car like I did in Pennsylvania.
Reply to rcampbell,
More trouble with *cars*? What a surprise Cars, cars, cars, cars, cars. Doesn’t really matter much how many or who dies needlessly as long as the small minded can have their big *cars* to play with.
________________
On the other hand, you could substitute knives, alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, ad infinitum…
Your views against guns are abjectly irrational. On day when the likes of Joe Arpaio are the only ones with guns, then you might understand the rational views of gun ownership–apart from valid recreational uses–although I strongly doubt that you ever will.
We read daily about abuse by law enforcement and I have worked with officers who should have never been given a firearm, but some who are still on duty. The military and LE must never be the only ones to have the right to bear arms.
Look at this map of the shooting site. No reasonable hunter would be hunting near the end of a cul-de-sac road with a high-powered rifle, especially one who knew this area well. He also would have known that he was way off the boundary of his family property.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/11/21/GR2009112100224.html?sid=ST2009112100226
Here is a link to Google Maps that illustrates the cul-de-sac at the end of State Route 1058 and the other cul-de-sac to the west about 400 meters distant. You will need to Zoom In for detail of the cul-de-sacs and to see how culturally developed this area is.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.913635,-80.171166&z=11&t=h&hl=en
After going to and studying all the info FFLEO posted, I must say there’s something muddled about this so-called accidental shooting.
I should have mentioned that the map reader must zoom in on the word Ferrum (the name of the college) and Route 1058 runs north/south, just west of (to the left of) 40 Franklin St.
Google Maps does not save the zoom level with the link. If you have ‘Google Earth’ that format works well.
Anyone who tries to blame the victim for this wretched act(and oh yes, some will try) deserves to be be hunted down and shot.
I am guessing this guy was hunting something other than deer.
Rcampbell, I am with you!
Thanks for the follow up FFLEO. The map does it for me.
Cloutier made a decision to leave his in laws property and continue hunting on the County land.
Having just picked up my oldest from Union Station, who is a senior at Knox college, she got the extra hug tonight. It’s tragic when the bright and shiny people as Ms. Goode appears to be, depart before they can leave their mark.
How on earth could he have mistaken this girl for a Deer?!
I think that maybe Byron may have a point, although I would not have worded it in quite the same way and it would need to be proved in court.
Thank you FFLEO. When I read this yesterday, I was saddened. I am still at a loss of what to say with this one except may they all find peace as this is a tragedy. Rather than react and want to take this mans life as well, I would want to know WHY? I just cannot fathom anyone killing another for fun. I realize we have a lot of sick people out there.
May the parents, relatives and friends find consolation in what ever brings rest to the mind. My heart goes out to them.
AY,
A young girl, 15, was recently arrested in Missouri for killing another teen girl. Her reason? Her hobby was killing people and she just wanted to see what it was like. She is being tried as an adult, a rare time when I think that’s appropriate.
Truly evil people do exist. Some of them are even likable.
“Reply to rcampbell,
More trouble with *cars*? What a surprise Cars, cars, cars, cars, cars. Doesn’t really matter much how many or who dies needlessly as long as the small minded can have their big *cars* to play with.
On the other hand, you could substitute knives, alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, ad infinitum…”
One BIG problem with your (specious) arguement, LEO: Cars are not designed, manufactured, and marketed to kill things. Knives are not designed, manufactured, and marketed to kill things. Alcoholic beverages and cigarettes are not designed, manufactured and marketed to kill things (well, maybe cigarettes, but they’re only intended to kill the user).
Guns are designed, manufactured, and marketed to do one thing and one thing only: kill things.
Buddha,
Thanks. Hey did you catch that KU Texas Score by chance? If not I think the feathers got plucked off of the chicken hawks.
flipkid,
Your argument neglects the other use firearms – one which is not a purposeful design function but rather reflects a flaw in the tool user: entertainment value. Monkeys like playing with the boomstick. I’m not saying your analysis is wrong. Just a little incomplete. Think of the term “attractive nuisance”. That could be just as big a problem as their primary design function.
AY,
UT won something like 51-20. They’ve been a little rattled out at KU with the hubbub around Mangino.
Well maybe he too can Coach at Tech. Bobby and his legacy are doing quite well. Tech has become a heavy contender. Hell TCU is doing well for a school with only 8 thousand students. The key is as Billy Clements found out at SMU pay the players well just don;t let the school get caught. And if they do get caught, get elected Governor and it all kind of goes away, except for the nods and winks.
Maaarrghk!:
you are right, I probably should have been a little more delicate.
But I am pretty sure that is what happened. I heard about another incident similar to this one many years ago in Vermont. It turned out that that is exactly what happened in the VT case. Although in VT it was a head shot because the guy was trying to see who it was. The shooter confessed in that incident.
I think that everyone in the woods hunting should have taken a hunter safety course as a minimum for getting a hunting license. You have to take a test to get a license to drive. And anyway it was rather fun, I took my son and he and I learned something and had a good time.
Guns are not the problem, stupid people that use guns are the problem. I say sterilize people with IQ’s below 140 and the problem goes away.
Byron,
Depending on which version of the test administered on which day depends a lot on the results. Two Nuts to No Nuts is what you suggest.
AY:
just trying to make a point.
@ rcampbell and @ Flipkid
Thanks – there’s hope for the US yet.
Byron–
I’ve met my share of idiots who received high scores on intelligence tests. Having a high IQ doesn’t ensure that a person will also possess common sense and good judgment, have a passion for learning, and be able to think outside the box.
Lots of folks think Dick Cheney is extremely intelligent (I don’t include myself among those people). Yet, he shot a good friend in the face when they went out hunting together. People with high IQ’s may imbibe too much alcohol before putting a gun in their hands–just like the folks that score in the average and below average intelligence categories.
As a former teacher, I taught a number of children who received different scores on different types of intelligence tests. One student I had was shown to be of limited intelligence on one test–and to be of high average intelligence on another.
I agree with what AY said about testing.
eLAINE:
if we sterilized everyone with IQ’s below 140 most of us would be sterile and you would still have a problem with firearms. Accidents happen, I don’t know why death from a firearm is any more tragic than death in a traffic accident or a construction accident.
Life is full of risks, if saving lives is the actual end game then get rid of cars and swimming pools. But it isn’t really about saving lives it is about forcing someone to give something up that someone else doesn’t think is good for them.
Like smoking or eating fatty foods or drinking alcohol or any number of things that people do, there will always be someone that thinks they know better than everyone else what is good for another person.
Gun control is about the usurpation of individual rights and nothing else, the tragic deaths of people at the hands of people who misuse or abuse guns is fuel for that fire. If they were truly worried about loss of life, cars would only go about 20 mph or we would all take the bus or train.
I am sick to death of people telling me what I can and cant do with my person and my property. Leave me the f . . . alone (not you obviously but government) and get off my back.
For what it’s worth, here’s my opinion of purely selfish people like Byron;
Unless YOU live on your very own Utopian island, your rights and freedoms intersect/interact with other people’s rights and freedoms.
We have to constantly work at the best possible balance of interaction, at which point we have what some call a “Community” or a “Society”.
You’ll be left the f… alone on your mythical island.
Pete Moran:
is that really true? Go back to school and learn something about what our society was founded on . . . individual liberty. I cant whack someone in the head because I am taking his rights away. But then neither should he use the government to take my rights away. Force is force.
And you are right I am selfish and there is nothing wrong with wanting to take care of myself and my family before I have to take care of others. In the old days it was called charity and we weren’t forced to give. Now it is called welfare and we are forced to give or the full force of the Federal Government is upon us.
Some laws are necessary but most are about depriving someone of their liberty in some manor or fashion.
Pete Moran,
“For what it’s worth”…worthless, not a plug nickel’s worth…
Bryon,
Guns do not kill people, stupid people kill people.
@ Byron and @ Former Federal LEO
You’ve both been reading too much John Zerzan, start again with John Stuart Mill.
Byron–
It’s hard to go on a violent rampage and kill and wound dozens of individuals from a distance with a knife or a sword. I think there are lots of people like me who don’t object to others owning guns for sport and hunting. What we worry about are all these high powered automatic weapons–or whatever they’re called–being so easy to purchase…especially by folks who may have more than a few screws loose. I am also troubled by folks bringing guns to political protests and children’s sporting events. (I know you don’t agree with me.)
Another thing: I wish more of these gun zealots–as well as other citizens–would fight as strongly for the First Amendment as they do for the Second.
Elaine:
I am not a rabid gun nut and I actually don’t have a problem with someone taking a hunter safety course to be able to hunt.
I personally would not take a weapon to a children’s soccer game nor would I take one to a political rally. But I would not have a problem with someone that did.
Had a few students or professors at VA Tech been armed fewer would have died. Same goes for almost every shooting by a crazy.
What about a car being used on a busy pedestrian byway or at a children’s soccer game or after a political rally? You could take out a bunch of people before the cops could even be in their cars, let alone on the seen.
Pete Moran:
Dont know who John Zerzan is. Maybe you don’t read enough John Locke? Jefferson is pretty good too and he thought the world of Mr. Locke.
“every Man has a Property in his own Person. This no Body has any Right to but himself. The Labour of his Body, and the Work of his Hands (and mind), we may say, are properly his.” He continues: “The great and chief end therefore, of Mens uniting into Commonwealths, and putting themselves under Government, is the Preservation of their Property.”
John Locke
You dig Pete?
Byron–
I had a nephew at Virginia Tech when the terrible shootings occurred. I would disagree about professors and students being allowed to carry guns on campus. I think there’s a good possibilty that more people might have be killed by accident if professors and students at VA Tech had guns in their possession. I wouldn’t want a child of mine attending a college where students were allowed to carry guns. As we know–lots of college students drink beyond a reasonable limit. Some people get aggressive and belligerent when they drink.
Another thing: Cars are not manufactured as weapons–but as a means of transportation. Guns are weapons. And ANYTHING–not just cars–can be used in an inappropriate way. Heck, I could probably knock my hubby unconscious with a candlestick…slash his face with a shard of glass from a broken vase…stick jellybeans or cottonballs up his nose while he’s sleeping so he can’t breathe. I could hit someone over the head with a shovel or stab someone in the chest with a pitchfork…I could go on and on. I happen to think that having a gun in one’s possession makes the committing of an act of violence easier.
eLAINE:
if anything handy can be used why single out firearms?
Byron–
To add to what I said in an earlier comment:
It’s hard to go on a violent rampage and kill and wound dozens of individuals from a distance with a knife or a sword–or to kill or wound numerous people with a shard of glass or a pitchfork or a candlestick or a shovel, etc. The wounding and killing of people is much easier with a gun. In addition, the perpetrator of the violence doesn’t even have to be that close to the people he/she is shooting at.
Elaine:
Most of the time when you have a shooting involving multiple victims it is done at fairly close range, think Columbine or the McDonald’s shooting CA years ago.
People that do this type of thing are nut jobs and would find some other way to kill if they did not have access to a weapon.
Personally I am willing to take the risk.
Byron–
The person that came to my mind first when I wrote about someone going on a shooting rampage was Charles Whitman. He killed about 10 or 12 people from the observation deck of a building at the University of Texas in Austin in the 1960s.
I think you’re missing my point that it would be extremely difficult–if not impossible–to kill dozens of people with a knife, a sword, a pitchfork, or the other tools and objects that I noted in earlier comments. It would also be much more difficult for potential victims to run to safety when a crazy person bent on killing people is wielding a gun and shooting at them.
Elaine:
I believe Charles Whitman was a nut job and he had a brain tumor. The only other time that I can remember a sniper killing people was here in DC. He was laid to rest recently.
Someone proficient in the use of a sword could kill many people before he was stopped. A proficient bowman could take out dozens of people as well.
It is not guns it is crazy people. I think most serial killers use knives or some other method that is personal like rope or their hands.
Guns are a scapegoat. For example the VT shooter was a psycho in high school or at least a blooming psycho, he could have been stopped then but probably wasn’t because of the school systems fear of getting into a long drawn out court battle.
Why should crazies be allowed to set the tone for the rest of us?
Byron–
From my observations of late, we seem to have a lot more nut jobs living amongst us these days. And I think lots of folks are being whipped up into a frenzy by talk radio hosts and their ilk. There are people teetering on the edge between sanity and insanity–all they need is a little nudge to push them over the line into the “crazy” zone.
There seem to be lots of adults who lack any kind of self-control or good judgment–adults with anger and rage issues. Not all that long ago–here in Massachusetts–two fathers got into a physical fight at a hockey rink when their children were either practicing or playing in a game. One father ended up killing the other. Were these fathers crazies? I can’t say.
I doubt that you and I will agree on this issue of carrying guns on college campuses, on school grounds, at children’s sporting events, and at protests. I just don’t understand why some people feel the need to always carry a gun with them wherever they go.
Elaine:
The answer to the last question is something I cant answer. It could be any number of reasons. If I could hazard a guess I would say security, as you mentioned above a good many people are getting tense.
Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Bill Press and Stephanie Miller make me very uneasy when I listen to all the people that call in to talk with them. Very scary stuff, I might go out and get a concealed carry permit to protect myself from those people.
Byron–
Folks like Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, and their ilk scare the bejeezus of me. Still, I don’t think I need a gun to protect myself from them. Maybe a good set of earmuffs–as well as a fourth estate and other mainstream media with courage and a backbone that did research and kept the public informed about important issues and a strong Congress that valued the Constitution and cared about the citizens of our country more than partisan politics, keeping lobbyists happy, and campaign donations flowing in.
Elaine:
“Maybe a good set of earmuffs–as well as a fourth estate and other mainstream media with courage and a backbone that did research and kept the public informed about important issues and a strong Congress that valued the Constitution and cared about the citizens of our country more than partisan politics, keeping lobbyists happy, and campaign donations flowing in.”
I’ll drink to that!
Byron–
“I’ll drink to that!”
Fine–but not more than one drink if you’re packing heat!
Elaine:
if I pack heat I would not drink. I dont get behind the wheel of a car with one drink either. so if you see me in public and I am packing you know at least I am sober.
@ Byron
Yes, I’m an admirer of Locke, especially his thoughts on Social Contract and Civil Society.
I would recommend “Political Theory of Possessive Individualism” by Macpherson.
Pete Moran:
freedom and liberty tend to make for a civil society. Obviously one must have laws but they should be the minimum necessary to protect the individual.
@ Byron
A question of “degree” then eh? Why does gun control not then fit into that arc of degree that should be examined, you know, to ensure a civil society?
This guy shot what he was actually aiming at – a human being. Its not like he was aiming at a deer and missed his target. 1. a hunter is required to confirm his target, 2. a hunter is required to have a backStop for his bullet. This is Vol. Mansloughter. 2-5 years
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