After Israel released a tape purportedly showing passengers on the Mavi Marmara making inflammatory comments, many questioned the authenticity of the tapes and charged that they had been edited. Leaders on the ship said that they never radioed the IDF to tell them “Go back to Auschwitz” and that they are “helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11.” Now, the IDF has issued an unedited tape and admitted that the earlier version was edited. It also admits that it is not clear that these comments came from the Mavi Marmara.
Here is part of the original tape released by the IDF that was widely distributed over blogs and news channels:
Here is the unedited tape:
The IDF insists that it was merely trying to edit out long periods of silence, but now admits that due to “an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the Freedom Flotilla responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified.”
Activists have objected that the IDF seized their own recording equipment that would have shown such editing as well as how they responded from the Mavi Marmara.
For the full story, click here.
Cherry-picked propaganda used to forward an agenda? Impossible, I say!
I eagerly await clarification and explanation from the IHH- provided tapes and propaganda. As I mentioned in commentary to the original post, the IHH has been linked with al-Qaida and other militant Islamic groups and involved in gun running according to a French expert in the field. It was directly involved in the LAX Millennium bomb plot in the U.S. I find it odd to expect truth only from Israel and not from its antagonist who has direct involvement in terrorist plots against us.
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/06/01/gaza-raid-triggers-international-outcry-and-question-of-international-law/
What I do not undersatnd is that during the 1490′s when Spain was kicking the Jews out Turkey was one of the few country’s that allowed them refuge. Hmm, a lot of things have happened, since then I guess.
Photos of beaten and bloodied Israeli soldiers, kicked and stabbed from the raid.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/g.php?g=55&p=1#gallerytop
You know when I was a kid in the sixties the Israelis were quite well thought of in many parts of the world, not just the US. Somewhere along the way they got really bad at PR. I guess having 150 atom bombs and the most powerful military machine in the region (and then some) makes you think you can get away with anything.
AY:
The Turks have become progressively radicalized by Islamic factions in the Country. Part of the problem I see is the reflexive reaction by Turks (and many in the West) against an “attack” on a “humanitarian” group. Most tend to see such groups as inherently benevolent and hence worthy of protection. The jihadists understand this Western sentiment and use our sense of propriety against us by merging the benevolent functions of the group with that of militant Islam. Hamas is a prime example. The study I cited gives this explicit support. One has to understand that militants play by only one universal law – the law of the jungle.
This type of deception is explicitly permitted by the Sahih al-Bukhari (84:64-65)(one of the six canonical Hadith collections):
Narrated ‘Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah’s Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). [emphasis mine] No doubt I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.”
Maybe Israel will next explain how the activists on the ship managed to use their “weapons,” i.e., pipes and poles, to shoot 9mm shells into themselves in their own backs, or their own temples, or the back of their own heads. I’m sure Israeli officials will be quick to comment on the autopsies conducted on the activist dead by the Turkish coroner. No doubt they’ll just state that the doctor is just another lying propagandist.
‘…but now admits that due to “an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the Freedom Flotilla responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified.”
Even limiting the transmission to the flotilla seem fartetched. They could have transmitted it themselves for exactly the PR use that they have put it. It could have been spliced into another transmission.
Did any other ship in that area pick up the Flotilla’s transmissions? Unless those transmissions were blocked by Isarel surely other ships, ham opperators etc. would have been listening for that pre announced confrontation.
Well, I’ll be damned! Looks like Israel has gotten some tips from that slimey little punk James O’Keefe and the slimey big punk Andrew Breitbart!
I concur whole-heartedly with criticism leveled against Israel by SeattleJoe (I guess having 150 atom bombs and the most powerful military machine in the region (and then some) makes you think you can get away with anything.), and Queen of Sheba (No doubt they’ll just state that the doctor is just another lying propagandist.)
Israel has become a rogue state.
It perplexes me that the Israelis, adherents of such a profoundly humanistic faith, CAN NOT get it clear in their collective minds that Palestinians just want EXACTLY what the post-Holocaust Jews wanted : a Homeland to call Their Own. Israeli hostility towards this goal of the Palestinians becomes even MORE puzzling when you recall that the Jews didn’t have to fight anyone to claim their new sovereign territory in the Holy Land: it was handed to them on a silver platter by the international community. In the spirit of compassion and justice.
Why must Israel, on the other hand, make the Palestinians bleed and bleed to have what they, the Jews, have already?
willbt,
I can’t decide if you are a subtle troll or not, but I’ll respond seriously:
Palestinians just want EXACTLY what the post-Holocaust Jews wanted : a Homeland to call Their Own.
No. The problem is that while Palestinians do want a homeland, many Palestinians also want Israel destroyed and have no problem killing innocent civilians (or with supporting others who do so).
Israeli hostility towards this goal of the Palestinians becomes even MORE puzzling when you recall that the Jews didn’t have to fight anyone to claim their new sovereign territory in the Holy Land: it was handed to them on a silver platter by the international community. In the spirit of compassion and justice.
Actually, I think you may want to look up “1948 Arab-Israeli War.” Israel got invaded and fought a war the day after it declared independence.
The Jews . . . The Jews . . . The Jews . . .
I think you mean “The Israelis”
James M. -
No. The real problem is that Israel is indeed a rogue state, is in violation of more UNSC resolutions than any other country on the planet, is violating international law by perpetrating this blockade against Gaza, and committed an act of war against Turkey by attacking its ship in international waters. These facts are indisputable. Go and do the research on the number of UNSC resolutions by country and see what you come up with. Go look at statements by the UN regarding the legality of the blockade, or the legality of the Gaza war (Goldsmith report), or resolution 242, etc etc etc.
Base,
It’s not that Israel isn’t a rogue state. They are. But there is a difference between “Jews” and “Israelis”. What willbt was doing is called the fallacy of distribution, specifically the fallacy of composition. I know plenty of Jews who would agree with the assessment that Israel has become uncontrollable just as I know Palestinians who have no desire to have Israel destroyed. The way willbt phrased the post was by its wording anti-Semitic, not anti-Israeli Government. It’s an important distinction.
People!!
“fallacy of composition”
“fallacy of distribution”
“I think you mean “The Israelis”
“The Jews . . . The Jews . . . The Jews . . .”
We are tangled up here in empty SEMANTICS, _not_ SEMITICS!
For Pity Sake, PROFESSORS, read with common sense. Parsing every passage looking for ghostly “subtle trolls” is a nowhere game.
Do you write about “Quebecois” separatism, or “Quebec” separatism? I’ve been an ardent follower of the Quebec situation for decades, yet have never once heard the separation project distinguished as “Quebecois” separatism!
*James M.: I wrote “Why must _Israel_, on the other hand,…”
We’re not presenting dissertations here, are we?
First of all UNSC has been a quiet joke that is becoming louder and more well known. They appear to go with whoever has the biggest and loudest mouth of the day. In this case the terrorist organizations and those who support them.
Second of all it has been proven time and time again that the so called Goldsmith report is so biased it is not even funny. This so called report should not even be brought up.
Third of all what do people do not understand about the word “blockade”! Whether it is Israel’s blockade on gaza or the U.S blockade on cuba. The word means the same thing. There is a reason why these blockades are implemented.
The so called “peace flotilla” I thought was supposed to be just that at the beginning. Until I read an article after the incident occurred that was quoting one of the main organizers of the flotilla that this had nothing to do with a “humanitarion mission” but to simply break the blockade on gaza. I was shocked and appalled that certain organizations would put peoples lives at stake for political gain. Israel warned these people on the ships as to the consequences of their attempts and they refused to listen. As sad as it is they decided to pay the ultimate sacrifice for their own political gain. To me they are not martyrs but uneducated people that decided to get involved with people and organizations (hamas and hezbollah and other yoyos) that are well known in the use of human shields for the own political gain.
I was speaking to a muslim friend of mine the other day and he attempted to defend turkey and the organizations as well as hamas and hezbolah. I simply let him know that it is turkey and the other countries that unoficially sponsored these ships by allowing the ships to leave from their ports even though they already knew the outcome of this whole mess and dismissing Israel’s warnings. I also asked him as to what part of the word “terrorist” did he not understand? Even the so called United Nations recognizes “hamas” and other organizations and their sponsors terrorists and rogue states.
Are we not seeing what is happening here? There is no excuse what so ever to backup any organization and “all” people involved and the countries that support terrorism period.
For those of you that do support them please just get a grip and open your eyes. If not the organizations and people that you do support that are associated with terrorism will do it for you and you will not know what happened when they do.
By the way the excuses given as to the reasons why these terrorist organizations including the countries that are supporting them are hilarious. Goes to show just how uneducated the world really is.
-James M.
…not sure if this is allowed here (moderator?)
…_Your_ name used to be_my_ name [I think!]. Difficult to clarify here. Would you care to contact me at : kathouse@shaw.ca. ? It’s The Name Game.
Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.
“Iran’s navy forces are ready to escort the peace flotilla to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities,” Ali Shirazi, Khamenei’s representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.
Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel which accuses Iran of supplying weapons to Hamas, the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.
The Guards, with their own navy, air force and command structure separate from the regular armed forces, are seen as fiercely loyal to the values of the Islamic Republic.
“If the Supreme Leader issues an order for this then the Revolutionary Guard naval forces will do their best to secure the ships,” Shirazi said. “It is Iran’s duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza.”
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE655077.htm
willbt,
Definition is important as is context.
If you’d chosen the word “Israeli”, it would be clear your statement was about the government of Israel.
As you worded it? It sounded like anti-Semitic horseshit.
Precision in language is important.
Get some.
wilbit
” … Jews didn’t have to fight anyone to claim their new sovereign territory in the Holy Land: it was handed to them on a silver platter by the international community. …”
===============================================================
1. On May 14, 1948, Israel proclaimed itself a sovereign state. The First Arab-Israeli War began one day later when Egyptian troops attacked.
2. On October 29, 1956, the second Arab-Israeli War (also referred to as “The Suez War”) broke out. Israel, with its allies France and Britain, initiated hostilities on October 29 by invading Gaza and the Sinai and then moved into the Suez Canal zone on October 30.
3. On June 5, 1967 (Six-Day War.), Israel launched a massive air assault that crippled Arab air capability. With air superiority protecting its ground forces, Israel controlled the Sinai peninsula within three days and then concentrated on the Jordanian frontier, capturing Jerusalem’s Old City (subsequently annexed), and on the Syrian border, gaining the strategic Golan Heights.
4. On Oct. 6, 1973 (Yom Kippur War), Egypt launched a two-pronged assault on Israel. Egyptian forces struck eastward across the Suez Canal and pushed the Israelis back, while the Syrians advanced from the north. Iraqi forces joined the war and, in addition, Syria received some support from Jordan, Libya, and the smaller Arab states. The attacks caught Israel off guard, and it was several days before the country was fully mobilized; Israel then forced the Syrians and Egyptians back and, in the last hours of the war, established a salient on the west bank of the Suez Canal.
5. In 1982 Israel launched a massive attack to destroy all military bases of the Palestine Liberation Organization in S Lebanon and, after a 10-week siege of the Muslim sector of West Beirut, a PLO stronghold, forced the Palestinians to accept a U.S.-sponsored plan whereby the PLO guerrillas would evacuate Beirut and go to several Arab countries that had agreed to accept them.
Some silver platter!
Blouise points directly to something I have said before and I’ll say again because it’s true: Having statehood comes with both risks and responsibilities. If you brutalize your neighbors? Don’t be shocked when they want to kill you.
Just like Americans shouldn’t be surprised when other countries, including allies, no longer take us seriously when our government operates like industry’s amoral greed driven lap dog and we let clear criminal actions by the former (and now current) President and Vice President go unpunished.
One has a right to justice and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. That’s the Golden Rule. It’s also known by another name: the ethic of reciprocity. The positive phrasing of the principle is “do to others what you would like to be done to you”. The negative phrasing of the principle is “do not do to others what you would not like to be done to you”.
Act like a jackass, get treated like a jackass. Act like a good guy, get treated like a good guy.
It’s not that complicated to understand.
Wow.
This is an account of the boarding relayed by an ex-Marine, Ken O’Keefe, who was on the Mavi Marmara.
http://humanrightstv.blogspot.com/2010/06/defenders-of-mavri-mamarra.html
This is troubling; allegations of a ‘hit list’ found on one of the IDF casualties. Easy to fabricate? Yes. Consistent with Israeli activities re: assassination? Yes.
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0605/israeli-raiders-assassination-list/
- dear Bhddha Is Laughing:
The concluding statement in my last post re: Israel vs. Palestinians begins, as I have already pointed out to JamesM:
“Why must _Israel_, on the other hand,… &etc.” What could be more clear?
What could be more clear is not using the false equivalence of “Jew” as if it meant the same thing as “Israeli”. Not all Jews are Israelis just as all Israelis are not Jews and the Jewish community is not homogeneous in their support of Israel. That’s a perfect example of the logical fallacy pointed to earlier – the fallacy of composition. Fallacies are logical errors, usually formal but they can be informal as well. If you are content with the fact that your imprecise use of the term “Jew” made your statements sound bigoted on their face that would mean you are also comfortable with that reasonable prime facie interpretation of your statements. The question you have to ask is are you bigoted or just a sloppy writer? One is excusable, the other not so much. Precision in language is not the enemy. Bigotry on the other hand is not just an enemy to those of the Jewish faith but to all of mankind. Bigotry begets hatred begets killing not out of self-defense or defense of others, but merely because someone is “different”. It is also an enemy to the bigot as well for when we harm or seek to harm others, we also harm ourselves. So unless you like people considering you a bigot based on your statements, use greater precision in your application of language. Misunderstandings are a form of trouble and the best way to avoid trouble is not to be there when it starts.
- Blouise:
re: “Some silver platter !”:
On November 29, 1947, the _United Nations General Assembly_ voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of a Partition Plan that created the State of Israel. The British reliquished their mandate over Palestine in 1948. War broke out between the Arabs and Jews soon after. *[http://www.theocracywatch.org/christian_zionism_israel_forms.htm ]
I was trying to convey this rather unnerving monolithic sponsorship – almost a Biblical cooing & swaddling – of the international community attending the creation of the new State of Israel.
Thus my “sliver platter” metaphor.
Who has done so much for the Palestinians? What international power[s] of any consequence today will step up to advocate for a Palestinian state? No one! The Palestinians are the new Jews of the Diaspora. Israel drives them away, smashes their homes, murders them, wishes they would disappear into the sand dunes.
Yes, the day after Israel’s Independence Declaration, war broke out.
HOWEVER: backed by Western military powers and the might of the UN, ultimately “Israel was able to draw its own borders, occupying 70% of Mandatory Palestine, fifty percent more than the UN partition proposal allotted them.” *[same citation as above].
Israel was the darling of the western world, and could do no wrong. And Israel’s preferential standing persists in the West to this day, though damaged and frayed.
This,coupled with the racialist & belligerent behaviour of various Israeli governments over the decades has made today’s Israel a Rogue State. A state not to be trusted. No longer such a darling!
Rightly so.
Israel Navy reserves officers: Allow external Gaza flotilla probe -
Officers denounce operation as ‘military and diplomatic failure’, slam government for placing blame on the activists.
-Buddha Is Laughing (I doubt it, really!)
I wrote: Why must _Israel_, on the other hand, make the Palestinians bleed and bleed…etc.
You slice and dice statements looking for arguments for argument’s sake, Professor.
It is perfectly clear that I distinguish between “Jews” and the State of Israel. – Isn’t it a pity that we do not have the luxury of distinguishing between “Palestinians” and “Palestine?” “The State of Palestine?” “Where’s THAT?!”
I return to my earlier allusion to the issue of Quebec separatism in Canada. I do believe you’d skewer any writer who dared use the “Quebecois” in that context. You’d call them “bigots” too. The fact is that some “Quebecois” citizens of Canada wish to separate from Confederation. They live in “Quebec.” They are also known as “Quebeckers.” Does that draw your ire too? Choose your words as you will. In context, I believe a reasonable reader would understand your message clearly. It’s not that tricky.
Israel, Israeli. In context, any reasonable reader “gets it.”
At this point I vacate this miasma of empty SEMANTICS.
Ire?
You haven’t even seen my ire, sport.
But you keep on abusing the language and eventually you will.
willbt,
I knew to what you were referring and disagreed with the incompleteness of “handed to them on a silver platter” … one can rightfully, even easily, present the Palestinian plight without such spin.
BIL:
Here are the motives of the IHH group in the words of former U.S. Marine O’Keefe while commenting on his claim of a prior running of the Israeli blockade of Gaza:
We proved that an intelligent plan, with skilled manipulation of the media, could render the full might of the Israeli Navy useless. And I knew then that this was only the tip of the iceberg. {[emphasis mine]
That about sums up the goal of this episode. Apparently O’Keefe knew how to run the blockade in the first place and also how to create a media event in the second place. He chose the latter here.
What Ken can’t do, apparently, is keep his mouth shut on his motives. Thankfully, braggarts make for poor manipulators of public opinion.
mespo727272
” … Thankfully, braggarts make for poor manipulators of public opinion. …”
=================================================================
… and, thank god, they never learn for craftiness is not an indication of intelligence.
And is anyone HONESTLY surprised by this?
First, an interesting take by Larry Elder
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder060310.php3
and next the inevitable
Iran Red Crescent to send two aid ships to Gaza
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/iran-red-crescent-to-send-two-aid-ships-to-gaza-20100607-xpwc.html
what could go wrong?
Barney Frank was on the Chris Matthews show last week and said that no one should come to any conclusions about the Marmora event until Israel conducts its own independent investigation. He said that the Israeli report could be trusted completely and that Israeli jurists were harder on the Israeli government than any outside adjudicators would be. He ridiculed the Goldman [?] report issued by the UN and told Chris’s listeners to wait for the “inevitable” Israeli investigation of the raid.
Now I read in the NYT that Israel is not going to conduct any investigation into the raid whatsoever.
mespo,
In order for a trap to be sprung, a creature must enter first. And whose fault is that? The hunter or the rabbit? Even if I bought the reasoning that this is an IHH setup, where does Israel come into play in re responsibility for their actions? Playing to an opponents worst nature and foibles is a well worn battle tactic. But who owns that exploitable nature? Predator or prey? Why prey of course. As sentient beings, only they can change their nature. If their own worst traits are exploited by the enemy, who carries that burden for the misstep?
The problem for Israel is that Israel was established on land confiscated from another people but the remnants of those people are still in the area and have not yet been destroyed.
Israel is no different from other settler colonial states such as the US, Australia, South Africa and Brazil except in that it has not yet destroyed the indigenous people it displaced.
One may ask why Un-Australian aborigines descendants of unlawful migrants who entered Australia 40,000 years before the arrival of the rightful owners are not girding themselves in explosive belts and detonating themselves on buses in Brisbane or Perth as revenge for the necessary and rightful confiscations and massacres. The reason is that in Australia the genocide has been completed, yes there remain a small number of people descended from who the prior illegal occupants but they have been reduced to a demoralized dysfunctional underclass whose rage is directed inward towards each other. Instead of killing Australians they drink themselves to death, rape their children and beat their wives and girlfriends to death. The work of genocide continues but we white Australians no longer need to dirty our hands, we can stand leaning on our swords and smirk.
Israel needs to reduce the Palestinians, descendants of the illegal occupiers of the land prior to the establishment of Israel to a similar level of demoralization. They should get advice from Australia, but the US also could give valuable advice based on its successful reduction of the descendants of the slaves wrongly freed in that most egregious excess of political correctness, the abolition of slavery to a dysfunctional crime ridden underclass.
Carylye:
“The problem for Israel is that Israel was established on land confiscated from another people but the remnants of those people are still in the area and have not yet been destroyed.”
**************************
As you note, that’s a pretty apt description of the U.S. However, we don’t see too many Navajo suicide bombers because we have established programs to assist the indigenous population. Not that we have done a perfect job, mind you. The difference is simply that the American Indian is not deluded by their religious convictions into thinking that attacks on kids or other civilian targets are the will of the Great Spirit.
BIL:
I certainly agree that the Israelis have handled the entire affair clumsily, but I don’t think that excuses the role of IHH in creating the incident. I told you my solution would have been to disable the props of the flotilla and let the humanitarian vessels drift until cooler heads or the non-mercentary contingent aboard decided to call off the running of the blockade. I note the other ships in the flotilla offered little or no resistance to IDF boarders.
HEAVY WEAPONS FOUND IN THE CARGO OF THE M/S. MAVI MARMARA FLOTILLA VESSEL.
This video shows that during the unloading of the Marmara boat in the port of Ashdod, behind the bags of flour were boxes of heavy weapons and ammunition: mortars, artillery shells, bazookas, without counting a trunk where more than one million euros was found intended for Hamas. This video should be widely distributed as evidence of why the IDF Naval commandos were dispatched to intercept the six vessels including the M/S Mavi Marmara. One wonders what is aboard the Irish vessel, the M/S. Rachel Corrie, that Israel will intercept sometime today when it approaches the Naval blockade line off the coast of Gaza. Clearly the Turkish AKP Islamist government is complicit in permitting this military cargo to be loaded on the ‘peaceful’ Free Gaza Flotilla. Please distribute this video widely. If you had any doubt about what was on the flotilla, here is the video. The French explains that the arms on display w ere hidden behind sacks of grain.
http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 19% of voters think the Israelis are to blame. Thirty-two percent (32%) more are not sure.
But 51% say Israel should allow an international investigation of the incident. Twenty-five percent (25%) agree with the Israeli government and reject the idea of an international probe. Another 24% are undecided.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/israel_the_middle_east/49_say_pro_palestinian_activists_to_blame_in_gaza_ship_incident
Helen Thomas forced to retire because of her recent statement.