John Lennon fans may be a bit surprised to see an interview in the new documentary, Beatles Stories, with Lennon’s long time friend Fred Seaman. Seaman says that Lennon had moved away from his early radicalism and became a fan of . . . wait for it . . . Ronald Reagan.
By the time of his death in 1980, Seaman say that Lennon was supportive of Ronald Reagan over Jimmy Carter.
Just imagine the following lyrics being used as a call to a Reagan fundraiser:
You may say that I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
It is enough to put even the most stalwart liberal into a fetal position.
Source: Toronto Sun
John Lennon’s conversion omes later than usual for the new rich. Examples of celebrities turning into Republicans as their wealth rises is not that unusual. One example is former funny man Dennis Miller.
I will buy that when Yoko says it, not some “friend”.
I have considered the Beatles “one” hit wonders…they always kept reinventing themselves….
So this really does not surprise me…..
Hey Republicans, who are the dirty hippies now?
I voted for Reagan twice and Bush Sr once. That doesn’t make me a teabagger today. Nor does it suggest that atheist John Lennon would long tolerate the convergence, or more accurately, the absorbtion of the Republican Party by the Christian Coalition or their intolerance toward their fellow man.
A 95% tax rate has a way of turning anyone to the dark side.
The anecdote I heard was that one day John was complaining about having to pay bills and the complexity of having a large estate to his manager. The manager started singing him the lyrics to Imagine (… imagine no possessions …).John’s response, “It’s only a fucking song.”
Thats nice bd….
The fellow worked for Lennon for about 1 year. Not enough for such against-the-grain assertions.
I haven’t heard a lot of those quoting Reagan saying “give peace a chance” for about a decade or so.
This story is part of the Republican presidential campaign which is trying to pull people from Obama, who is helping them do so.
For years I have believed that religious conservatives who raise their children to be afraid of asking questions would have seen too many adult atheists in their family get togethers. On the same theme, it would only have been a matter of time and experience for the peace loving John Lennon to embrace an artistic but also mainstream form of Christianity . John Lennon’s assassin could have saved his friends and music fans years of bitter recrimination by allowing John Lennon to live his life as a maturing, thoughtful Dad and an eccentric genius .
He really did become a self-centered egotistical ass so it isn’t hard to imagine that he would support those that made him feel better about himself as opposed to those who wanted to do better.
Also please explain how one can be “wisely skeptical” but still assume that the embrace of Christianity is only a matter of time? See, if you are going to troll well you need to try to pick a better handle so that the bullshit is not so obvious.
I think we are seeing another little bit of revisionist history here. Thirty years later and this comes up now?
I’m with Dredd on this one. Seaman’s past is questionable and certainly not squeaky clean – theft, perjury, and so on. Sued by Yoko for a variety of issues.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/28/arts.artsnews
I’d say that thirty years after Lennon’s death he is trying hard for his 15 minutes.
Whether true or not it’s immaterial. Lennon left behind a geniuses body of work, was a great singer and a fine musician. The truth of a poets insights,
once written, doesn’t deteriorate as the poet ages into other views of life. If the thoughts themselves, at the time when written provide people with nuggets of truth regarding life, they then become eternal whether or not the writer remains true to them.
Bob Dylan, another genius from the same era wrote lines that I live by:
“Don’t follow leaders, watch your parking meters.”
Seemingly simple advice, with real depth of practical meaning. Dylan, even during the height of his early fame was bemused by people looking to him as a leader of anything. He saw himself clearly as just a poet and entertainer. That many of my generation looked to him for guidance, is a reflection of our own loss of focus. However this is true of humans in general. From our own life experiences, using ourselves as models, we know how frail are human’s intentions. People who follow any political leader, confident in their prescience, are usually doomed to disappointment.
“He really did become a self-centered egotistical ass”
No, he always was a self-centered egotistical ass.
kderosa:
“No, he always was a self-centered egotistical ass.”
****************************
I’m no Lennon fan, but it seems you have insight into his character and history that his mother would envy.
Anyway, here’s a Bible quote to appeal to your fundie sensibilities: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” And here’s another: [Troll] heal thyself!
I anxiously await your acrimony-free reply. Also still waiting for that stand-up schedule. You’re a hypocritical hoot!
mespo,
kd is not doing to be da man today….lol
Dear fans,
Just because someone is a great showman, doesn’t mean his views on anything else are worth listening to.
OT,
I recently watchedIt Might Get Loud. I’m not quite sure how they picked The Edge to be on there with Jimmy Page and Jack White, but it’s well worth watching. Two of the three can rock so hard there’s a change in the Earth Orbit every time they get on stage.
@Mespo
“I’m no Lennon fan, but it seems you have insight into his character and history that his mother would envy.”
Stop being an idiot for awhile.
Youtube is your friend for watching old Beatles videos. Go watch a few and makes your own judgments.
I like the guy and his music, but he sure comes off as a self-centered, abrasive, egotistical ass and there’s lots of people on the record that share that opinion of his personal character. Google is also your friend.
Mike S,
Honestly I’d say The Beatles were much better entertainers then they were musicians. That’s not to say they were talentless hacks, they were skilled musicians, but compare Lennon Or McCartney’s songwriting to Dylan, Zappa, or any number of other folks at the time, and they fall a bit short.
Sgt. Pepper’s was such a blatant rip off, Zappa’s next album was “We’re Only In it For the Money” with a cover spoofing Sgt. Peppers.
“Honestly I’d say The Beatles were much better entertainers then they were musicians.”
Gyges,
I completely defer to your expertise on musical talent. As to Dylan and Zappa, both were profound and in a very real sense more honest about their views. However, the fact that I know instantly every Beatle song and the words, is a testimony to the powerful effect of their music. To be honest Sgt. Pepper was not my favorite album of theirs. My personal ranking would be the “White Album,” Rubber Soul” and “Revolver,” in that order. Of course mixed in with those purely visceral feelings was the resonance they had with the state of my life at the time they came out.
As to my own musical predilections today I listen mainly to Leonard Cohen, Lou Reed, Bruce Springsteen and Warren Zevon. In a general sense though I was a “Deadhead” and have been to many Willie Nelson concerts.
I love Rock, Bluegrass, 20′s and 30′s Jazz and “The Blues.” Lacking both an ability to sing on key and any ability as a musician, musics for me is judged viscerally. If it moves me I love it and if it brings me to tears, I’m in heaven.
By the way I never liked “Imagine,” since I thought it pretentious. The “Ballad of John and Yoko,” however, pleased me even with its’ pretensions, because of the comic irony and the music.
Ted Nugent–not just a musician but a friend of FOX personalities Mike Huckabee and Sean Hannity. He’s a real class act!
I concur with just about everything Mike S. just said, although I’m still a deadhead and think that Abbey Road comes in just a hair above Rubber Soul.
But not even Dylan or Zappa ever came close to the genius and talent that was Derek & The Dominoes.
How about a Woody Guthrie song sung by “The Boss?”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/11/john-lennon-philip-norman
It should be possible to enjoy the music without admiring the musician.
@mespo727272
In light of Pepe’s excellent link, you must feel more moronic than usual about now. (And I’m glad he posted it because, I was certainly not about to put any effort into proving the trolls, like Mespo, are as idiotic as their blather you suggest. The idiotic blather speaks for itself.)
You know what they say about making assumptions, don’t you, Mespo?
That’s well-deserved acrimony.
“…but compare Lennon Or McCartney’s songwriting to Dylan, Zappa, or any number of other folks at the time, and they fall a bit short. …”
There is not a single Dylan or Zappa song I have ever heard that has a chord change in it that gave me goose bumps. Only one or two Dylan songs ever inspired me to dance. I don’t recall ever hearing a single Zappa song that drew a tear.
The Beatles were a success because of their songs, not despite them. Were they marketed well? Sure. But it was their musical genius which made them overnight sensations, kept them there for many years, and which allowed them to change the world with their message.
I have been in bands and have played some of their music – it still amazes me to this day how deceptively simple their compositions appear, how difficult it is to play their stuff really well, how unique were their chord choices and changes, and the stamina of their legacy.
Ginger,
I guess the question is, were\are any of those things a goal of Zappa or Dylan? You can’t call someone a failure who didn’t accomplish something he never wanted to do. Stravinsky has never made me want to dance, Howlin’ Wolf never gave me Goosebumps, Mingus has never drawn a tear.
To a large degree this is a matter of taste, which is why I preface my comment with “I’d say.” Almost every time I listen to a Dylan lyric or a recording of Zappa and his band, I hear something new; the craft involved is astounding.
Saying “they’re good at X, but better at Y” is not the same as saying “The succeeded at Y despite X.”
Gyges:
“Just because someone is a great showman, doesn’t mean his views on anything else are worth listening to.”
****************
I assume you mean Lennon but note the hand-in-glove application to kderosa. Clown, clairvoyant (note his premonition of Pepe’s piece), and clod all rolled into one very flamboyant package. I do love good show. Maybe he can front for Lady Gaga.
“Nonascerbic” kderosa reply coming in three … two … one ….
“Howlin’ Wolf never gave me Goosebumps,”
With that voice, how couldn’t he?
“Mingus has never drawn a tear”
But he probably made you laugh with ditties like
And Zappa’s lyrics are almost prophetic; for example, predicting the coming of the likes of Palin and Bachman…
“Can’t escape the conclusion
It’s probably God’s Will
That civilization
Will grind to a standstill
And [they] are the people
Who will make it all happen
While yer children is sleepin’,
Yer puppy is crappin”
And speaking of hearing something new re Dylan, ever listen to the test pressing of Blood On The Tracks?
Bob,
I saw Dylan when he has just released it….Flat, Black and Round one….unfortunately he teamed up with Petty and that kinda ruined the concert for me….but I paid a shit load for the ticket and stayed for the whole thing…if I can block Petty out of it…it was a fairly good concert….lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk3mAX5xdxo My friend grew up with Dylan in Hibbing. Saw him in concert with her.
Well he was from Minnesota after all…to the Zimmermans…..
Bob,
Regarding Howlin’ Wolf, I’ve got a rare genetic disorder, I’d rather not talk about it. Do you have “The London Sessions?” I pull it out every couple of weeks (which is pretty frequent for me).
Haven’t heard the test press.
Bob,
I should have mentioned Abbey Road. Once a Deadhead always a Deadhead. I go through cycles of who i listen to the most and right now its’ those I mentioned. So much music, so little time to listen.
SWM,
“Blood on the Tracks” is my favorite Dylan album, except for the live one he did at MSG with the Band. I was there, with great seats and it was the best concert I ever attended, though memories are blurred from what I injested.
First, as the late great Ray Charles once said, “I never saw the point of the Beattes.” I was too caught up groovin’ to the Temptations, the Jackson Five, The Dells, Delfonics, Chi-Lites and Stylistics whose musical artistry soared light years over anything these guys ever put out. I am not hatin; I’m just saying. In fact, I liked the solo acts far more than I did the group act. Lennon and McCartney rocked as solo artists.
As for Lennon’s alleged later conversion as a conservative, why should we care? Do you really think this information is really going to steal votes away from the Democrats? Those who vote based on this information are crazy anyway. Lennon is dead and not here to say no way or the other. This assertion is similar to Palin’s assertion last year when she stated that we should honor Dr. King by supporting the troops. Icons are always being recreated to score political points. Who gives a rat’s ass what Lennon thought? What a waste of time. How about talking about how Congress plans to deal with the issue of job creation and truly fixing the economy. The rest is a distraction as it was intended to be. So move along people. There is nothing to see here.
Mike S. I remember fully the Leonard Cohen concert I saw two years ago.
my favorite delfonics for you, erykah
This would certainly explain Chapman’s biggest pet peeve with Lennon – that he lived like a king while writing songs about everybody being equal.
Never called Zappa or Dylan failures, Gyge, just pointing out that the Beatles succeeded at their intentions spectacularly well.
Now, if you want to talk about someone who is a great song writer, fabulous musician, and wonderful lyricist… try to get into Richard Thompson. He’s an acquired taste, though. Takes a few listens to the same material. He just picked up his OBE from the queen.
erykah
1, June 30, 2011 at 5:34 pm
First, as the late great Ray Charles once said, “I never saw the point of the Beattes
oh no, he wouldn’t stoop that low would he.
oh yeah
ray charles never saw much of anything after 7y/o
Gyges,
The London Sessions are awesome! I don’t know about your condition, but a goosebumps worthy part on that recording is the false start for Red Rooster where he explains the location of a change “Where the E drops in … it says Boom.”
If you’re as big a Dylan fan as I think you are, you really should hear the test press; it’s a completely different album. I’ve got in .flac format and high qual mp3 format. Buddha has my email address; drop him a line asking for my address and we can set up an FTP transfer using Cute FTP.
Mike,
Rubber Soul is a fantastic album, but side two of Abbey Road is a masterpiece. But, speaking of masterpieces, I have to ask you, do you have a soundboard copy of the Dead at Cornell 5/8/77?
Jude,
Chapman was obsessed with the ducks. As in he wanted an answer to the question Holden Caufield had in “Catcher In The Rye;” i.e. “Where did the ducks go?”
“Around 5:00 pm, Lennon and Ono left The Dakota for a recording session at Record Plant Studios. As they walked towards their limousine on the curb, Chapman shook hands with Lennon and held out a copy of Lennon’s new album, Double Fantasy, for him to sign.[12] Photographer Paul Goresh was present when Lennon signed Chapman’s album and took a photo of the event.[13] Chapman reported that, “At that point my big part won and I wanted to go back to my hotel, but I couldn’t. I waited until he came back. He knew where the ducks went in winter, and I needed to know this” (a reference to The Catcher in the Rye because it is what Holden wonders throughout the story).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_David_Chapman
AY,
Not to rub you the wrong way, but I thought Petty woke Dylan up and made him sound much better. Sort of the same way Bruce Hornsby woke up Jerry while he was playing keyboards for the Dead.
Hmmm….Bob…Not sure….but when I hear petty sing Dylan style…it kinda of irks me…but hey…I liked Kenny Rodgers when he sang…rock…but he like Roy Clark…found that there was more money and a ready and ready market for country….Roy Clark is a classically trained musician that went to the Julliard school…so money is money and that is that…lol
No I am not rubbed the wrong way…thanks..
Bob,
Will do. If you haven’t seen It Might Get Loud you should. The best part is when The Edge (the guitar player for U2) plays without running his guitar through anything, and he’s just playing straight quarter notes. That or just about every moment Page has a guitar in his hands.
erykah,
I love Ray Charles!
Finally in a state where I can post videos:
Ginger,
Elaine,
Bob,
(not surprisingly, not all that appropriate for work or children)
And for no other reason than it makes me as happy is Willie Nelson’s Reggea album:
It’s exactly everything you’d hope it’d be.
Bob, Esq, that could be one version, but Wikipedia itself has yet another version:
Mark David Chapman had become a born-again Christian in 1970,[14] and was incensed by Lennon’s “bigger than Jesus” remark, calling it blasphemy. He later stated he was further enraged by “God”, and “Imagine”—even singing the latter with the altered lyric: “Imagine John Lennon dead.”[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Lennon
Also, from the article YOU quoted:
Chapman later said that “He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music.”
So, as I said before…
For years I have believed that religious conservatives who raise their children to be afraid of asking questions would have seen too many adult atheists in their family get togethers. On the same theme, it would only have been a matter of time and experience for the peace loving John Lennon to embrace an artistic but also mainstream form of Christianity . John Lennon’s assassin could have saved his friends and music fans years of bitter recrimination by allowing John Lennon to live his life as a maturing, thoughtful Dad and an eccentric genius.
I think its understandable that Lennon might have wanted to give Sean a less erratic environment than John and Yono lived during their nude bed ins for peace days. Good schools always offer comparative courses , including religion . That’s how learning begins, with arguing contrasts and comparisons . The extremes had to be thought about by the Lennons looking for a more mature alternative mainstream way to balance their love in days .
gyges:
Ray Charles & Cleo Laine,Charles Mingus and Issac Hayes thats and ear fulfillment my friend.In the music business they call something like that “in the pocket” KUDOS!!
This has nothing to do with any of this but I just happen to be listening to:
Elaine and Swarthmore Mom–Thanks for posting the Delfonics. It is said that Michael Jackson was heavily musically influenced by them. They were one of the best male groups of all time.
Gyges–Hot Butter Soul, yes indeed! Appreciate that. Issac Hayes was the master of remake. Lay Lady Lay, a timeless classic indeed.
Peter– You need a time out. “Nough said.
Gyges,
How about a little Paul Robeson?
Gingerbaker, Thanks for the Richard Thompson, I saw him solo a couple of times in a small venue club on the riverfront and he was fantastic, Vincent Black Shadow is always a crowd pleaser, I saw him forever ago with then wife Linda in Fairport Convention, another outstanding group.
Bob Esq., If you want a bit of GD nostalgia you can go here:
http://www.archive.org/details/etree
The second box in the center of the page “Browsing and Finding shows” lets you get a list of all the artists live shows available on the site and various other categories of available recordings. “Browse all artists with recordings in the live music archive” is the place you probably want to start. That “browsing” box also lets you search for lossless and 24 bit categories of recordings.
The Grateful dead page listed there has 8,000+ listings. Use the search function to find a concert you went to and see what’s available for listening and download.
Everything is non-copyright. You have to open an account to comment and upload. They kick you off if you upload copyright material after a friendly warning and deletion of your illegal posting. Other members rat you out immediately ’cause they don’t want this marvelous resource taken down.
I searched for the GD, Fox Theatre, St. Louis, 1970 and found ‘my’ concert 02-02-1970. There’s only a snippet of that concert that exists but it’s the best part, Saint Stephen and Dark Star and parts of the songs that racket that set. That concert was one of the last times they ever did those songs live, by the end of 1970/early 1971 those songs had disappeared from their concert lineup. Good times. Really good times.
With all due respect, I just can’t believe that Lennon was a Conservative Reagan Republican. No way.
Mike S.,
I agree with you that the Beatles were the punctuation of our generation. Nothing better.
So big surprise here. Afer all, Lennon immigrated to the U.S. for tax purposes because tax laws in GB were so confiscatory at the time.
“I have to ask you, do you have a soundboard copy of the Dead at Cornell 5/8/77?”
Bob,
I wish I did. Most of the music I had has gone to my younger daughter and I was never big on keeping track of my collection. Re: your discussion vis.
Tom Petty. I kinda like him, but he is usually not someone I sit down to listen to. However, “The Travelling Wilbury’s” is one of my favorite albums and he’s got a good lead or two on some of the tracks. “End of the Line” is among my all time favorite (there are so damn many) songs. Perhaps it resonates because I’m on the far side of 60.
(chorus 4)
Well it’s all right, even if you’re old and grey
Well it’s all right, you still got something to say
Well it’s all right, remember to live and let live
Well it’s all right, the best you can do is forgive
(chorus 5)
Well it’s all right, riding around in the breeze
Well it’s all right, if you live the life you please
Well it’s all right, even if the sun don’t shine
Well it’s all right, were going to the end of the line
Elaine,
I’ve never been that big of a fan of Straight versions of that particular song. I do Love Robeson’s voice.
Ekerya,
I know it’s slightly cliche, but my love of Issac Hayes began with this one.
Well that’s odd. Let’s try this again.
As I went through a year and a half of dying only to attain resurrection, my younger daughter did a CD mix for me to listen to and raise my spirits. This
song was on it and has been a favorite since the 70′s, when in my single years I rigged my alarm clock and turn table to wake me each morning and start me off on perspective of what live was about:
“Seaman says that Lennon was supportive of Ronald Reagan over Jimmy Carter.”
Yes, and had he not been murdered, he had planned to give all his money to the John Birch Society and join the U.S. Marine Corps the following day.
A wise man once told me, “Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see”. I have followed his advice ever since.
Just getting my beak wet with this Dylan talk in this article goes in to his religious dabble,he made an album that was called “Electric Church”where he did All Along The Watchtower with a choir backing him up:
“At first called “Dylan’s God-Awful Gospel” by his most loyal fans, Bob Dylan’s Jesus Years are today regarded as among the best of his career. How did a Jewish folk singer from the Midwest come to Jesus? Finally, here is an insider’s view of Bob Dylan’s “Born Again” transformation, and its effect on his life and music.
http://bobdylanjesus.com/
Gyges :
Mike Spindell,
Ha,I missed those Stringband muscians. Guess for some reason they did not make the country charts…
I choose to ignore the claim of an attention seeking man whose revelation comes thirty odd years too late to substantiate. I will bide myself with Lennon’s own words:
“There’s room at the top I’m telling you still
but first you must learn how to smile as you kill
if you want to be like the folks on the hill
Working Class Hero is something to be”
and
“No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
It’s money for dope
Money for rope
Ah, I’m sick to death of hearing things
from uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrites
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now”
…or simply “Power to the people, right on”
There are 5 recordings for that concert here. 4 are for streaming and one, below listed, steams and has d/l available. Some of the ‘notes’ introducing the recordings available have a genealogy, some do not.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Dead%20at%20Cornell%205%2F8%2F77%20AND%20collection%3AGratefulDead
For streaming and D/L in two file formats
Source: Audience – Sony ECM-990
Lineage: Sony ECM-990 > Sony TC-152 (aud master) > First Gen Reel > played directly to hard drive:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd77-05-08.maizner.hicks.5002.sbeok.shnf
Mike S.,
That was a great job by your daughter to use music to boost your spirits!
lottakatzatz,
Archive.org was more fun when they let you download the soundboards. However, you can still download them at
http://bt.etree.org/
“A wise man once told me, “Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see”. ” -HenMan
Very good advice…
“Ha,I missed those Stringband muscians. Guess for some reason they did not make the country charts.”
FFLEO,
They were unique and they were great. The irony of their anonymity was that they were at Woodstock, but refused to perform in the rain fearing death by electric guitar. Missing the opportunity to become iconic by a performance there, their careers went downhill, fueled also by sex and drugs which split them apart.
Raff,
The maturation of my daughters into women that have surpassed my career, when comparing their relative ages to my own experiences, has been among the greatest joy of my life. That they are intelligent, empathic, beautiful and kind fills me with pride. That they love me as much as they have proven to love me,
gives purpose to my life.