Rick Perry: Earth “Pretty Old” and Evolution “Got Some Gaps”

Gov. Rick Perry was asked directly about his view on creationism and the religious dogma regarding the age of the Earth. His response was truly Bushesque, saying that the Earth is “pretty old” and evolution “got some gaps.” He wants both evolution and creationism taught side by side as equal “theories” in public schools.

A mother at a campaign stop prompted her son to ask Perry about creationism and the age of the Earth. Perry responded “How old do I think the Earth is? I have no idea – it’s pretty old. It goes back a long way – I’m not sure anyone knows really completely know how old it is.” It goes back a long way? Of course, all that carbon dating appears inconclusive since no one is actually living who saw the Earth billions of years ago. Due to the lack of eye witnesses, that means that the Earth is somewhere between billions and just thousands of years old. However, it is pretty old.

Perry went on to say on evolution that “It’s a theory that’s out there and it’s got some gaps in it. In Texas, we teach creationism and evolution because I feel you’re smart enough to figure out which one is right.” A theory that’s out there.

Texas has been ranked 44th in spending on education and last in high diplomas Polls show that a third of Texans believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time and a majority reject the theory of evolution.

Source: TPM

110 thoughts on “Rick Perry: Earth “Pretty Old” and Evolution “Got Some Gaps”

  1. Well that explains the gap between his ears….to much wind in the ears and too long out in the hot Texas sun…but it comes down to is he stupid or ignorant….

    Stupid:

    not intelligent; irresponsible

    Synonyms: brainless, dazed, deficient, dense, dim, doltish, dopey, dull, dumb, dummy*, foolish, futile, gullible, half-baked, half-witted, idiotic, ill-advised, imbecilic, inane, indiscreet, insensate, irrelevant, laughable, loser*, ludicrous, meaningless, mindless, moronic, naive, nonsensical, obtuse, out to lunch, pointless, puerile, rash, senseless, shortsighted, simple, simpleminded, slow, sluggish, stolid, stupefied, thick, thick-headed, trivial, unintelligent, unthinking, witless

    Notes: stupid refers to lack of ability while ignorant refers to lack of knowledge

  2. SwM,

    Well there goes my potential Ron Paul vote. No abortions and no evolution,
    to me evinces liar and/or moron.

  3. You know, I assume he is really not this stupid so does he say this shit to placate the people who are this stupid or does he really believe it?

  4. How did this guy get through medical school? Either he is lying through his teeth in order to pander to his know-nothing base, or he is dumber than I thought.

    I am reminded of the comic line, I think by George Carlin: “Somewhere out there is the worst doctor in America. And tomorrow morning, someone has an appointment with him.” No George, he went to Congress instead. I don’t know who is worse off–that patient who did not get to go to the doctor, or the American people.

  5. Frankly,

    It needs to be determined first is he Stupid or Ignorant…Then you’ll have you answers….

  6. Swarhtmore mom,

    “Huntsman is the only candidate the republicans have that is not a creationist. Romney changes every day so I don’t know.”

    Romney IS a creationist. Nearly every time he speaks he “creates” a new persona with different positions on important issues.

  7. The republican party reached its peak of insanity
    in george’s claim he GOD’s chosen in leading an
    holy christian crusade agin ISLAM agin MUSLIMS.

    Resulting in a disaster for an Middle East as USA.

    Republicans know they need change.They must
    cast aside the extreme religious viewpoints/ they
    must reconnect with reality. Thus one should not
    be too hard on them /allow for some compassion.

    However I don’t say give them your vote / such as
    that far to a extreme in one’s allowing forgiveness.

    The republicans left /a dire situation for democrats
    in taking office // the situation is a uphill struggle in
    putting such basics of govt back into working order.

    George left a disaster zone behind / such t’wll take
    at least threee decades to bring an stable outcome
    dealing with the economy / employment / a taxation
    system that brings its benefits to all / not to the few.

    Now the time for All AMERICANS /voting democrat
    as one people to work in mending a broken nation
    that again americans can stand proud in the world
    a nation whom hold high /a beacon of guiding light.

  8. Mike there exist a serious threat to life and safety for residents of South Florida next weekend. Recent model runs showing a possible ominous situation. This is over a week out and alot can happen between now and then. I would suggest into possibly looking into an evac. Plan just in case. This system looks to become a slow mover once it nears Cuba. Keep an eye on my forecast page as i initiated my tracking of this system starting with todays report.

  9. If Obama can’t pull his head out of other folks asses he is doomed….what choice do the American folks have as president….Bush got us into a war…It will be someone else selected January 6, 2013 by the electoral college as certified by each states Board of Canvasser…

    Thus far Obama has given NO ONE any reason to relected him….other than fear of the other one might be worse….IMO we need someone that is electable that actually stands for something….You figure the folks on wall street would clamor they are screwing him the worst…Look at what S&P did…I am sure that is Chinese influenced….but still…and if anyone has missed it…the White Collar Division of the FBI has targeted S&P for a criminal investigation….

    But look at President Obama’s approval rating on the the most important issue for his re-election–the economy–has fallen to the lowest level of his presidency, according to a poll released Wednesday by Gallup.

    Just over one in four of those asked say they approve of his performance. The 26 percent approval rating is down from 37 percent in May and almost 10 percentage points below his prior low of 35 percent in November 2010.

    (CNSNews.com) — President Barack Obama’s job approval tied its all-time low among black Americans last week, according to the Gallup poll.

    When asked by Gallup in the week of Aug. 8–14 whether they approved of the way Obama was handling his job as president, a record-low 81 percent of blacks surveyed said that they did. Back in the week of Feb. 28–March 6, Obama’s approval among blacks also dropped to as low as 81 percent.

    WASHINGTON — Approval of President Barack Obama’s handling of the U.S. economy has fallen to a new low of 26 percent, according to a Gallup poll released on Wednesday in the aftermath of a bruising fight with Congress over federal spending.
    Seventy-one percent of Americans said they disapproved of Obama’s handling of the economy, up 11 percentage points from mid-May, when Gallup last questioned people about the issue.

    According to a recent Harris Poll this month, just a third of Americans (32%) give the president positive ratings on the overall job he is doing while two-thirds (68%) give him negative ratings.

    It’s not surprising that nearly all Republicans (95%) and a vast majority of Conservatives (92%) polled give the President negative marks, but so do almost three-quarters of Independents (73%) and two-thirds of Moderates (64%).

    Read more: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/90057545?Obama%20suffers%20worst%20approval%20ratings%20of%20his%20presidency#ixzz1VU4YOuGA

    I am not saying he is not going to win…but he has to do better than what he is doing…

  10. “Anonymously Yours
    1, August 19, 2011 at 9:40 am
    Frankly,

    It needs to be determined first is he Stupid or Ignorant…Then you’ll have you answer”

    He’s” STIGNORANT”quite a combination,just wants you to focus on the shiney object where ever it may be.

  11. Dredd,

    I’m totally convinced that we don’t have all the answers, but I also am totally convinced that life is not 6,000 years old.

  12. @Nal

    “There’s some gaps alright, but they’re not in Evolution they’re in Perry perception of reality.”

    Actually, there’s one big gap right at the very beginning that seems to be the subject of most of the controversy. Or did I miss the big pronouncement that we figured out with scientific certainty how life first sprang forth from a universe without life? Technically speaking, you’d need a self-replicating organism first and then evolution.

  13. AY:

    Rally pains to say this the man is not a fighter,and he will soon in IMHO will be called “cave man”.His record is showing that.The election will boil down to the lesser of two evils.BTW have you noticed how each election is more important to vote in that the previous?

  14. eniobib,

    I will come out again and say Huntsman is probably the only half way intelligent republican in the mix right now…And if it were a choice between him or Obama…well…I am sure I’d go with Huntsman….

    To have the thought of another Idiot from Texas as President…is scary….

    Bachmann said: “”we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States.”

    Great start for her….wow…almost as good as Palin…Did these folks like skip US History….

    Pulitzer Prize-winning Washington Post columnist Colby King on Friday disgracefully called Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann “Barbie with fangs.”

  15. And here is why the XII AM was adopted:

    Election of 1800

    Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton first came into public opposition during the famed election of 1800. In the election, Aaron Burr ran as Vice-President on the Democratic-Republican Party ticket with Thomas Jefferson against John Adams (the incumbent Federalist). Electoral college rules at the time gave each elector two votes for president, with the candidate receiving the second most votes becoming vice president. The Democratic-Republican Party therefore planned to have 72 of their 73 electors vote for both Jefferson and Burr, with the remaining elector voting only for Jefferson. However, the electors failed to execute this plan, so Burr and Jefferson tied with 73 votes each. As mandated by the United States Constitution in the event of no candidate winning a majority, the election was moved to the United States House of Representatives, which was controlled by the Federalists, many of whom were loath to vote for Jefferson. Hamilton, however, regarded Burr as far more dangerous than Jefferson and used all his influence to ensure Jefferson’s election. On the 36th ballot, the House of Representatives gave Jefferson the presidency, with Burr becoming vice president.

    Then we have the fatal duel……

  16. Huntsman is another anti-abortion candidate but he has not signed the pledge. He believes in global warming so he will probably stay stuck at 2 or 3 percent since most republican primary voters don’t believe in it.

  17. Some of you are so scared of hope and change. I have hope that we get in any new prez that at least have a clue. Ya’ll.

  18. abortion rights candidates in actuality only capture 2 to 3 % of the voting public…the remainder of voter are concerned with other major issues like the economy… and leave the single issue of choice or not alone…I am for women’s choice or whatever that means….but then again…confuse it with a male wishing that the female would get an abortion then you have other issues….to contend with….and that will be just as blatant…the right for a male to have a say if an abortion happens…one side of the same coin…

  19. If Only Government Schools Could Go Extinct

    First, let’s get the facts straight: No, it wouldn’t be constitutional to advocate creationism in public schools, though it might be acceptable to teach the religious basis for it without declaring it the truth. Even without possible legal finessing, however, it is very likely that teachers are discussing creationism in Lone Star science classes, and just about every other state’s. As a groundbreaking survey of high school biology teachers recently found, about 13 percent of surveyed teachers explicitly teach creationism or intelligent design in their classes, and about 60 percent dance around evolution, sometimes by teaching numerous views on the subject.

    How could this be happening?

    About 40 percent of Americans believe that roughly 10,000 years ago God created human beings as we currently exist, and they aren’t going to just let the schools for which they have to pay taxes ignore that. Nor should they: ours is a nation built on individual liberty, and government attacks that at its core when it compels people to support schools that either teach things they find abhorrent or fails to teach things they feel essential. Of course, those who oppose the teaching of creationism are equally justified in standing up for their convictions — hence the creationist black market and costant public-schooling conflict.

    The solution: Let parents choose educational options consistent with their norms and beliefs, especially through tax credit programs that allow individuals or corporations to choose what kinds of schools they’ll support. And yes, many people will select options others will dislike, but that’s both a part of freedom and the key to getting coherent and transparent curricula for all.

    As a side — but hugely important — note, it is very dangerous to let government declare scientific “winners.” Reality — while very hard to truly know — is not determined by “consensus,” or who can convince the most politicians of something. It simply is. As a result, letting something become officially approved thought is to be assiduously avoided. But don’t take my word for it: Just read up on John Scopes and the huge challenges he faced trying to teach kids about offically forbidden evolution.

  20. Otteray Scribe said:

    “How did this guy get through medical school?”

    Actually, one of the continuing urban myths is that the typical MD is smarter than the patient sitting in his shorts waiting.

    The fact is, the Henmon-Nelson IQ Distributions for Occupation Groups study, put that silliness to rest two decades ago.

    In a nation that has almost exactly 650,000 doctors who treat patients (many don’t) the Henmon assessment demonstrated quite clearly that about 1/3 of physicians can boast pretty much the same intelligent levels as dock loaders & gardeners, day laborers & taxi drivers.

    I don’t say this in a mean way.

  21. Mike Spindell,

    I’m totally convinced that we don’t have all the answers, but I also am totally convinced that life is not 6,000 years old.”

    Good for you. Keep up the research! ;)

  22. Rickk Perry continues to shoot his Bible packing mouth off. If gets elected it will be time for all “non-believers” to buy warm coats and head North.

  23. I read a fascinating article this morning at Science News.org about the bending of light as it is seen from great distances (like through telescopes). It seems that some of the stars we think we are seeing are not really there because large astronomical objects “standing” between us and the star bend and curve the starlight by the time it reaches us. Thus one star appears to us to be two, four, or more stars or glowing objects.

    In other words things are not always as they appear.

    It appeared to most of mankind for most of history that the sun “rose” and “set”. But it doesn’t. We revolve and it rotates.

    Two clocks initially set at the same time and then placed at different elevations on earth (ideally one is at the highest and the other at the lowest) will run at different speeds all things mechanical being equal and in good repair with them. What this FACT indicates to us is that TIME responds differently to the force of gravity. The more gravity exerts on time the faster it “runs”.

    This has great implications for the young earth viewpoint. The universe could only LOOK old because as gravity away from us exerts a greater force from where we stand it is probably running faster like the clock at the top of the Himalayas. The same amount of time has passed, but the clocks register different information. One is running faster and one slower. That could be what we are seeing.

    A good book on this subject is Starlight and Time by Russell Humphreys.

    Here is the article I read this morning about bending starlight. It has a charming human interest story as well:

    http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/33082/title/Accidental_astrophysicists

    And now for the politics.

    The demented and deranged people on the left who mock and ridicule people who take the Book of Genesis at its word like to pretend that Christians reject science. Leftists like to pretend this because they are bigots.

    But Christians don’t reject science. In fact Christians laid the foundations for most of modern science. What these morons on the left don’t admit is that they, by faith, filter the scientific evidence they see through the prism of their own preconceived notions (faith) in a godless universe and fit the facts to that world view. Yet, being the evil doers they love to be, they would deny Christians (who also respect and admire science) the right to have their own preconceived belief that the universe is not Godless.

    The reason for this is that the godless critics are more intolerant than the Christians.

    By the way, I don’t believe for a minute that Perry is a Christian. Just like I don’t believe Obama is. Or Bush. Or Clinton.

  24. I find it ironic that the creationists are the first to use modern science-based medicine when their health is in jeopardy.

    If the United States is to remain a superpower, it has to be the leader in science.

  25. suggestion: choose the GOP candidate of choice. It’s going to be the only way out of this mess unless POTUS does a Johnson and says “see ya”. You know it, I know it, the American people know it (and gosh darn it, people like me). So stop the bellyaching and try to discern who the devil will be this time. Then reassess in 2016.

    Take a gander at this link. It is from a person who doesn’t especially care about Perry but offers up defense of Texas employment stats. Also does not claim that any positive effects are Perry-pogenic.

    http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1590

  26. Perry’s “got some gaps” between his ears… And what Nal said…

    (I see that AY beat me to the punch…, but I’m posting this anyway…. It bears repeating… )

  27. klownderosa – I’ll explain to you how the universe came to be out of nothing (actually there is a very good explanation but the math is well beyond you) just as soon as you can explain where this ‘God’ being came from out of nothing.

    BTW – His kid said something about mote v. plank you really should look into.

  28. Nuttie – Nice, you being able to decide who is a real Christian and all. That makes your ignorant bullshit all that much easier for you to believe. If they don’t talk & think and agree with you they just are not “Christian” are they?

    Hmmmmmm . . . so does that make you God? I mean being omnipotent and all knowing like that must mean you are at least in constant contact with Him so you should be able to do all those other things mentioned in the New Testament, drink poison, handle snakes without being bitten, cure all diseases. Can you grow an amputated limb back on for me? Or are you just another mindless bigot blaming the Almighty for your narrow-minded hate and ignorance?

  29. Perry has some pretty big gaps in his understanding (although anyone who’s willing to execute innocent men has much bigger problems than that…)

    Tootie said:

    I read a fascinating article this morning at Science News.org about the bending of light as it is seen from great distances (like through telescopes). It seems that some of the stars we think we are seeing are not really there because large astronomical objects “standing” between us and the star bend and curve the starlight by the time it reaches us. Thus one star appears to us to be two, four, or more stars or glowing objects.

    I saw several talks at Duke by Arlie Petters on gravity lensing – very cool stuff (in another life I would have liked to work with Arlie – differential geometry and general relativity make a fun combination)

    In other words things are not always as they appear.

    It appeared to most of mankind for most of history that the sun “rose” and “set”. But it doesn’t. We revolve and it rotates.

    Oh lordy, here it comes…

    Two clocks initially set at the same time and then placed at different elevations on earth (ideally one is at the highest and the other at the lowest) will run at different speeds all things mechanical being equal and in good repair with them. What this FACT indicates to us is that TIME responds differently to the force of gravity. The more gravity exerts on time the faster it “runs”.

    Which is why when you get close to the event horizon of a black hole time speeds up to simultaneity… wait a sec… you have it exactly backwards, Tootles. Also, the paradigm in which you are thinking about gravity isn’t really appropriate for general relativity – gravity has to do with the shape of spacetime (because objects with mass distort spacetime).

    This has great implications for the young earth viewpoint.

    This should be fun…

    The universe could only LOOK old because as gravity away from us exerts a greater force from where we stand it is probably running faster like the clock at the top of the Himalayas. The same amount of time has passed, but the clocks register different information. One is running faster and one slower. That could be what we are seeing.

    Well, at least you fixed your sign error. So, gravitational lensing could account for why the universe looks old even though it was created 6,000 years ago. And the first person to notice that is… Tootie. What you seem to forget, dear, is that this is science. In other words, we can actually CALCULATE the time differences (which must me done, on the fly, for GPS, by the way). Needless to say, the math for your theory… doesn’t add up.

    And now for the politics.

    Jesus was a socialist. And what you profess in his name shames him.

  30. kderosa,

    Cintelligent designists are not scientists and whether you’re talking about creationism, intelligent design, irreducible complexity or the next name the crusade to go back to the dark ages comes up with to hide their lies it will never be science because it is not falsifiable. Teaching things other than science in a science classroom is intellectual poison for a (technological) society.

  31. @ EvoLoonies

    How old is the earth? Or, how old is the oldest living thing? Or, even dead thing, like the T-rex?

    Let’s think about this. Let’s research and not just regurgitate what some voice-over on NatGeo says.

    How old is the intact, pliable soft tissue (blood vessels) found in the t-rex leg bone? Or the blood cells, or the DNA? Google Mary Schweitzer.

    Your mullahs reply,”70 million YEARS, my son, you must beliEEEEve!”
    Tell me what science backs that up!

    Are you just too lazy to see ‘Dawkins stumped’ or ‘Dawkins and Stein’ on youtube? My favorite part of “Expelled” is Michael Ruse’s bit on the origin of life on earth…..”I TOLD you, on the backs of CHRYSTALS!!!!!”

    Good thinking! Nice reiligion. With priests like Ruse, Lyotard, Enns (and I didn’t make these names up) who needs comedians?

    Perhaps you may be interested in the NASA-software-based documentary, The Star of Bethlehem, by Eric Larson. See the whole thing and the part about Good Friday, April 3, 33 A.D. Then, check out the writings of Phlegon, Thallus, Tertullian and Sextus Julius Africanus who corroborate the shroud of darkness that covered the earth. Just fairytales? Keep whistling.

  32. @Slarti

    “intelligent designists are not scientists and whether you’re talking about creationism, intelligent design, irreducible complexity or the next name the crusade to go back to the dark ages comes up with to hide their lies it will never be science because it is not falsifiable. Teaching things other than science in a science classroom is intellectual poison for a (technological) society.”

    I don’t disagree.

    My only point is that even the science in the arena of ambiogenesis is far from settled. Some seem to think that it is and/or that the theory of evolution speaks to this issue with any scientific authority.

    @Frankly

    “I’ll explain to you how the universe came to be out of nothing (actually there is a very good explanation but the math is well beyond you) just as soon as you can explain where this ‘God’ being came from out of nothing.”

    There is a reading comprehension deficiency here. The issue is how life came from non-life material, not how the universe came into being.

    What makes you think the math is beyond me? I got all the way up to differential equations, so why don’t you go ahead and try me out.

  33. Bugs Bunny: “In the beginning, there was no life, the earth was forming…BOOM, the earth simmered from earth quakes, mountains forming, oceans boiling, then all was quiet….a little pool of water forms..in that pool, two tiny ameba, the start of life.”

  34. Given the “environmental” conditions of the primordial soup, it is not hard to understand how protolife formed from elements and compounds available. Those conditions have been replicated in laboratories, and the results have been good enough to make biochemists understand how the earliest life could have started. Given the right mixture of chemicals, pressure, heat, lightning (a lot of it) and time (a lot of it), something akin to a virus-like molecule happened in some puddle somewhere. And the rest, as they say, is history…..

  35. OS,

    Um, forgive me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Evolution and abiogenesis are two completely different theories? I mean, it’s an observable fact that environmental pressures and mutations in genetic and epigenetic material combine to change what phenotypes are common in a population. That holds true if we say that life on the planet earth happened like you say, or was if it was created by a race of inter-dimensional beings as part of a giant supercomputer.

    Otherwise, we’d be force to say “plate tectonics have a gap because we don’t know where matter came from.”

  36. kderosa said:

    @Slarti

    “intelligent designists are not scientists and whether you’re talking about creationism, intelligent design, irreducible complexity or the next name the crusade to go back to the dark ages comes up with to hide their lies it will never be science because it is not falsifiable. Teaching things other than science in a science classroom is intellectual poison for a (technological) society.”

    I don’t disagree.

    Okay. That’s a nice change. ;-)

    My only point is that even the science in the arena of ambiogenesis is far from settled. Some seem to think that it is and/or that the theory of evolution speaks to this issue with any scientific authority.

    “Even” the science? (And it’s abiogenesis, by the way – just sayin’…) I would agree that the science of abiogenesis is unsettled (give it a couple of decades and a consensus will probably emerge is my guess), but the science of evolution is settled (at least as far as the matter of evolution occurring – many details still need to be refined, corrected, or discovered…). The theory of evolution doesn’t speak to the issue of abiogenesis at all – they are completely different branches of biology – evolution takes up where abiogenesis leaves off (or creation if you prefer myth to science).

    @Frankly

    “I’ll explain to you how the universe came to be out of nothing (actually there is a very good explanation but the math is well beyond you) just as soon as you can explain where this ‘God’ being came from out of nothing.”

    In my undergrad real analysis course I came up with a proof by contradiction of the non-existence of God assuming that she created the universe out of nothing (and that God was continuous). Eat your heart out, Oolon Colluphid…

    There is a reading comprehension deficiency here. The issue is how life came from non-life material, not how the universe came into being.

    This is a pretty standard creationist straw man/pivot.

    What makes you think the math is beyond me? I got all the way up to differential equations, so why don’t you go ahead and try me out.

    While I have no doubt that you would be able to understand the math that Frank dishes out, maybe he should start slow and test out my meager skills to begin with…

    Frankly,

    I would love to hear your “very good explanation”. I’m sure that I don’t have the depth and breadth of understanding of mathematics that you do, but I’ve learned a little in my 4 years of undergraduate study of mathematics, the 10 years of math grad school I went through before getting my PhD, and the five years of post-doctoral research I did in mathematical biology and I’ll do my best to keep up.

    If you’re talking about string theory, I’m not an expert (although my roommate for 4 years at Duke was studying string theory and gravitation – they’ve got some pretty good string theorists at Duke, by the way…), but I’ve had two years of abstract algebra and a year of differential geometry and I know the basics. Personally, I’m not sold on the Big Bang and I think that the standard picture of particle physics is going to seriously change when the LHC goes to 14 TeV in 2014, but we’ll have to wait for the data on that one.

    In any case, please do share your explanation for creation ex nihilo with the rest of us. Although not all of us (or none of us) may understand the technical parts, most of the people here are smart enough to recognize competence when they see it.

    Bob,

    I wont argue with Bug either.

    OS,

    Actually, the rest is evolution…

  37. To me the final answer in this debate is: Is Genesis coherent, much less credible as the history of man and the Universe.

    Why did God need to rest? Allegory to explain why man should have a Sabbath.

    Why did God need to create Eve from Adam’s rib, when he just created Adam whole? Allegory to explain a man’s dominion over his woman and the relationship of the sexes.

    Why was the Tree of Knowledge created in the first place? Allegory to explain why Adam and Eve had to leave Eden, thus why the world wasn’t “Edenic”.

    Where did the women Cain and Abel married come from? Good question which Genesis doesn’t answer.

    Where did God come from and if God is Eternal how did that come about?

    These are just a few of the inconsistencies which shows Genesis was never meant as a true retelling of creation. It was a damned allegory and was understood as such by those at the time, just as the Greeks understood that the Olympians were also allegorical. Humankind has actually regressed intellectually in the last two or three thousand years.

    There are a few problems with evolutionary theory, but there is so much more consistency that we know something like that happened. To believe in the factual nature of Genesis is absurd and actually blasphemes God, by diminishing the eternal nature of creation and its’ creator. What is interesting is that if you throw out the notion that creation took only a week, you come up with the bones of a story matching sciences theories, only in allegorical terms.

    God save us from the Fundamentalists of this world, for theirs is the path of death and destruction.

  38. Frankly,

    If you just made a horrible bluff and have no idea what to do now that it has been called, you can just slink quietly away… we’ll all know what happened.

  39. @Slarti

    ” I would agree that the science of abiogenesis is unsettled (give it a couple of decades and a consensus will probably emerge is my guess), but the science of evolution is settled (at least as far as the matter of evolution occurring – many details still need to be refined, corrected, or discovered…).”

    Again, we agree. Twice in one day.

  40. @slarti

    “This is a pretty standard creationist straw man/pivot.”

    How is that? The way I see it is that the origin of the universe is a separate issue from the origin of life in the universe. The origin of the universe gives us a bunch of non-living matter which has to be transformed, somehow, into living matter.

    Now if “God” is a black hole into another universe, does that harmonize the religion and the science?

  41. kderosa,

    Do it once more and I will be forced to attack your position to prevent a massive endothermic event in the anti-paradise and possible armageddon.

    Raff,

    Promises? I didn’t make no stinkin’ promises…

  42. kderosa,

    It’s a straw man/pivot because it’s a standard ploy by creationists to change the topic (to one they feel on firmer ground with [not that they are…] but is unrelated to the original question). I refuse to address the rest of the paragraph for the reasons I alluded to in my previous comment. ;-)

    As to your final question, I think that “God” being a black hole IN another universe (i.e. a bunch of matter in one universe collapses gravitationally and explodes into our universe – by which I mean CREATING our universe) makes more sense and this is still a problem as it would be in no sense creation from nothing.

  43. “A mother at a campaign stop prompted her son to ask Perry about creationism and the age of the Earth. Perry responded “How old do I think the Earth is? I have no idea – it’s pretty old. It goes back a long way – I’m not sure anyone knows really completely know how old it is.” It goes back a long way? Of course, all that carbon dating appears inconclusive since no one is actually living who saw the Earth billions of years ago. Due to the lack of eye witnesses, that means that the Earth is somewhere between billions and just thousands of years old. However, it is pretty old.”

    Carbon dating is not capable of dating anything as old as the earth. Radiocarbon dating works only for objects up to forty thousand or so years old. This has to do with carbon-14’s relatively short half life of about 5600 years.

    Actually, it was Harrison Brown, who created the technique of measuring lead isotopes for determining the age of very old rocks, enabling Clair Patterson finally to make an accurate assessment of Earth’s age: 4.55 billion years.

  44. kdersoa,

    I’ve found that in popular discourse most people use the term “carbon dating” to mean “radio-isotope dating” – creationists try to exploit this fluke of semantics to portray the science as somehow unreliable.

  45. The greatest mystery at the moment is:

    1) how machines evolved after the big bang prior to organisms;
    2) how those machines then evolved into microbes;
    3) why microbes (billions of years later) would choose humanity as a symbiont.

    But scientists tell us that it is now reality that we are symbionts.

  46. One can’t get into to much explanation as it a complex matter.

    However if I go direct to basic understanding as in explanation.

    You’ll never know the answers in understanding ( take note).

    However understanding will take you to a point of experience
    of creation (in such experience / understanding then unfolds
    as a flower unto the sunlight .. However ( take note ) with your
    experience of creation in essence of its power /understanding
    is in the earlier stages THEN as your merging with creation it
    goes beyond understanding // the finite becomes the infinite..

    THERE ARE THINGS I would like to bring to your attention / yet
    If doing so I will wander from keeping it simple as is my intention.

    So I’ll jump to the part where each individuals is capable starting
    the process where they can experience the essence of creation.

    Such is done via meditation // in turning the senses inward / thus
    focus on the spark of creation that sustain the life of each human.

    SHORT EXPLANATION (( if trying to reach enlightenment looking
    at the material external / its as if putting the cart before the horse
    it just does not work // its understandable people make such error
    it’s natural to look to the material for answers ( yet one must know
    as try grasp the reality when it coming to knowing the essence of
    creation // understanding takes you unto the point of MEDITATION
    & via meditation comes true experience // and such the experience
    it answers all your question having asked as yet to ask. When your
    in a state of knowing there no questions / there’s ENLIGHTENMENT.

    Of course there more to it than that because your in another realm.

    You may not seek LASTING enlightenment. You may wish continue
    having an human form returning as returning as returning in human
    form // if it a individuals desire then it be granted / that not a problem
    the problem is on return via human form // in being reminded of your
    purpose of being on planet EARTH. Thus once again you must learn
    in wishing to know the power of creation of which a spark in sustaining
    your being // THEN YOU MUST VIA MEDITATION TURN THE SENSES INWARD /THUS BRING ONE’S UNFOLDING OF THE SPIRITUAL SELF.

    On PC search put ( words of peace ) on site a large selection of videos
    in which Prem Rawat talks of turning the senses inwards //thus bringing
    a undfolding of the spiritual self. The videos are an needed preperation
    toward meditation // one needs the understanding taking them unto the point of experience / VIa meditation. Prem Rawat in the spiritual field / is
    the best of the best // he’s the teacher of all teachers / the king of kings
    thus you’ll do no better in a teacher. Having an spiritual guide is a must
    you’ll need encouragement / as understanding /upon your homecoming.

  47. We’re all looking at the same empty box. Theists believe there’s something magical and mysterious in that empty box which nonthieists can’t see and then have the unmitigated gall to expect nontheists to be responsible for justifying why they don’t see something in the empty box. That’s bullshit and I’m sick and tired of it. Until theists have something concrete, something three dimensional to offer to explain their absurd biblically-based bullshit positions, I demand they STFU.

  48. rafflaw
    1, August 19, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    Wait a minute Slarts! I was promised there would be no math here! :)

    =================================

    You keep saying that … when are you going to learn that scientist are fickle creatures? It’s called “The Triceratops Panic: Why Does Science Keep Changing Its Mind?” and here’s a link for you to enjoy:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/04/14/135351303/the-triceratops-panic-why-does-science-keep-changing-its-mind

    Excerpt:

    “People don’t want their eternalities to change. They hate that. But, in the end, science has to win. There are 5 year olds all over the world now growing up with Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus, but not that other guy, the one with the name of Mickey Mouse’s pet dog. In fifty years, Pluto may be just a dog again.

    That’s how it goes.”

    raf, there is always going to be math!!

  49. Mike –

    Agree 100% on the lack of logic in Genesis.

    It all strikes me as a grand agenda, to lay a foundation for a planned lifestyle, by some seriously socially manipulative Mid-Eastern fellows.

    Hell of a thing for a former altar boy to utter.

  50. GOP Presidential Candidates At Odds Even With Tea Party On EPA Hatred
    First Posted: 8/19/11 12:51 PM ET Updated: 8/20/11 02:37 AM ET

    “WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidates have taken aim at the Environmental Protection Agency, pledging to cut its federal funding and strip it of the tools to address emissions. But such views may prove a liability with voters on the campaign trail. Recent polls show that a majority of Republicans want to continue funding the EPA, while experts say the electorate largely trusts the American regulatory agency.

    “They are catering to a small segment of Republican electorate,” said Republicans for Environmental Protection’s David Jenkins when asked why presidential hopefuls would target the agency. When you look at polling on just about any environmental issue, Jenkins said, be it the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act or Endangered Species Act, Americans support conservation by substantial majorities.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/19/gop-presidential-candidates-tea-party-epa_n_931406.html#s333596&title=Rick_Perry

  51. Tootie:

    “By the way, I don’t believe for a minute that Perry is a Christian. Just like I don’t believe Obama is. Or Bush. Or Clinton.”

    *******************

    You’re right.None have the secret decoder ring and the only Christian I know is you.

    The arrogance of Christians is so pervasive that they don’t even believe any of their brethren are their brethren. It’s just them and the invisible god against the world.

    Hey, that sounds like a sappy song:

  52. And you’ll love this from the Son of Satan……..

    Karl Rove had perhaps the harshest criticism for Perry while appearing on Fox News Tuesday. Talking Points Memo reports that Rove said on the show, “You don’t accuse the chairman of the Federal Reserve of being a traitor to his country. Of being guilty of treason. And, suggesting that we treat him pretty ugly in Texas. You know, that is not, again a presidential statement.”

    Rove has expressed worry over all the GOP presidential hopefuls, stating that they need to think more about electability than moving further to the right.

    “You don’t want these candidates moving so right in the Republican primary that it becomes impossible for them to win the general election, because it will become a self-defeating message in the primary,” Rove said in an appearance on Fox News. “People want to win. They don’t want somebody who goes so far to the extremes of either party that they lack a chance to carry a victory off in November.”

    Perry has defended his statements about Bernanke, saying he is “just passionate about the issue.”

    What Perry should have said…was are Ya’ll playing a game at gotcha….next time I’ll pay attention….but for now he should call cousin Sarah and say….Hey, Girl….you got room on that bus of your’se…

  53. Have you ever seen those Conan O’Brien segments “If they mated”?

    When I saw Bruce Bartlett in the above video, I couldn’t help but think that he looks like the offspring of Rush Limbaugh and John McCain. :)

  54. “Friedman said the controversy about his remarks, made during his campaign and as a satirical entertainer years ago, have diverted attention “from things that are troubling real Texans.” He said he hadn’t heard any of the other candidates talk about crime in Houston, which he said has been aggravated by Hurricane Katrina evacuees, whom he has referred to as “crackheads and thugs.”

    “I was raised by a black lady in Houston,” Friedman said. “She taught me that Jesus Christ was color blind, and I’m proud to say that I’m color blind myself. I’m no racist. I’m a realist.”

    The other candidates chided Friedman for his words, but Perry was the harshest.

    “Mister Friedman, words matter,” Perry said. “Using that terminology, whether it’s on stage or whether it’s in the Governor’s Mansion is absolutely and totally unacceptable.”

    http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/rick-perry-attacked-kinky-friedman-2006

    BTW I see that Matt Taibbi is on his way to Texas to see whats up with Rick Perry and John Hagee and other things Perry is involved with.

  55. eniobob,

    I guess thar is a jesus amongst them white folks…They want to win…and they consider it a mortal sin to have the progeny of the son of the crime family look like a greater fool than that which preceded him……

  56. SWMn,

    I heard that there is a Texas family alone that is giving to Perry’s Presidential fund…between 3 and 4 hundred thousand per quarter….the person I know does all of the family’s book and there are 5 of them….this has been going on for the last 21 months….That’s a lotta moolha….

  57. Tomorrow ppl is going to release a poll that shows Perry up nationwide in the double digits. Perry will now be the one to beat not Romney.

  58. raff, We shall see. I don’t think so. After he wins Iowa, South Carolina and Florida, he will be unstoppable.

  59. Evolution has far fewer gaps than Rick Perry. We will be treated to his particular brand of populist garbage for many months to come, but he will eventually talk himself out of higher office.

  60. Here’s one for you all that really believe Perry does what he says…..

    Head of Texas motor vehicle agency resigns amid criticism

    The head of the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles resigned Monday, a few weeks after the fledgling agency that handles vehicle registrations and other services was criticized for not fixing organizational flaws quickly enough.

    “I’ve got some personal issues I need to address,” Executive Director Edward Serna told the Star-Telegram in a voice mail Monday, explaining his departure effective Aug. 31.

    The DMV was created two years ago to remove some administrative functions from the Texas Department of Transportation. It is a contact point for millions of motorists who buy, sell and register vehicles, as well as law enforcement agencies and county tax assessors and collectors.

    Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/08/22/3306410/head-of-texas-motor-vehicle-agency.html#storylink=omni_popular#ixzz1VucjHFfK

    You can’t get much better than creating more government to serve ya….

  61. […] For those who found Bush simply too intellectual, Perry appears your man. He added his view of the new found ability of Iranians to act outside of the limitations of conventional physics, noting “We’re going to see Iran in my opinion, move back in at literally the speed of light.” We will obviously have to stay until Iraqis evolve into a faster form of life but Perry is on record questioning the basis for evolution. […]

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