I have previously raised concern over the treatment of Herman Cain by the media and Democratic activists because of his race. While I have strong disagreements with Cain, I find it discomforting to see how his race is such a preoccupation with Democrats. This weekend, I was taken aback by the statement of Democratic strategist and MSNBC analyst Karen Finney that Cain is “a black man who knows his place.”
Here is the full statement in context:
“One of the things about Herman Cain is, I think that he makes that white Republican base of the party feel okay, feel like they are not racist because they can like this guy,” Finney said. “I think he giving that base a free pass. And I think they like him because they think he’s a black man who knows his place. I know that’s harsh, but that’s how it sure seems to me.”
What is equally remarkable is Martin Bashir’s response: “Thank you for spelling that out.”
There is of course another possibility: Republicans supporting Cain might not be racist . . . anymore than Democrats who supported Obama. Republicans have previously had African Americans run for President. Alan Keys comes to mind. Like Russ Perot, Cain is billing himself as an outsider from the business world. I have criticized him in columns, but I do not see why he should be faced with constant questions over whether he is genuine or merely some put-up black guy for racist Republicans. Yet, there have been a steady chorus of such attacks directed at Cain.
Finney is described as “having more than 20 years in national politics includes four presidential campaigns, the Clinton White House, a New York Senate race, and first African American spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee.” No one would tolerate Republican attacks that she is a woman or African American valued by MSNBC for “knowing her place.” Yet, these attacks have gone on without little objection from Democrats. Indeed, MSNBC host Al Sharpton has questioned whether Cain is an “authentic black man”.
Cain for his part has called some of these attacks “racist.” Of course, not to be undone in the racist rhetoric, Russ Limbaugh has insisted that Herman Cain more “authentically black” than Obama.
What do you think?
She has a tin ear with regard to race. She needs to either learn to speak more accurately and circumspectly or to attend some sensitivity training sessions on race.
That comment is thoroughly cringe-worthy.
There is something about Herman Cain that does not feel right in the Black Community.I really can’t say what it is but its there.As far as what the commentator said about Cain knowing his place,That I doubt for he says things that are down right dumb and if he has handlers they would be embarrassed,but that dosen’t seem to be the case for who ever is handiling him they are doing it from afar and are happy to see the attention he is getting and the chaos he is causing in the nomination process in the Republican Party,Next time they show his commercial,you tell me if that smile of his isn’t the look of some one preparing to laugh all the way to the bank.
Like I said dumb things:
“The women complained of sexually suggestive behavior by Cain that made them angry and uncomfortable, the sources said, and they signed agreements with the restaurant group that gave them financial payouts to leave the association. The agreements also included language that bars the women from talking about their departures.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/30/herman-cain-sexual-harassment-accusations_n_1066487.html
Democrats are race obsessed for the most part, her comment comes as no surprise. And she is full of shit.
The reason the left doesnt like Herman Cain is that he is a person who has made it pretty much on his own, doesnt like big government and is apparently free market.
http://ideas.time.com/2011/10/20/is-herman-cain-the-most-unctuous-black-man-alive/ Toure sums up Herman Cain for many..
Toure calls Cain the “black Sarah Palin”.
Another Black prospective on Herman Cain:
Why the Koch brothers love Herman Cain: The right- wing billionaires care only about their bottom line
A secretive duo that funds conservative causes
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Originally Published: Sunday, October 30 2011, 3:51 AM
Updated: Friday, October 28 2011, 3:53 PM
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/columnists?columnist=Stanley+Crouch#ixzz1cMNvovIA
Although I am much more likely to agree with MSNBC than with FOX, I think MSNBC increasingly tries to play FOX’s game of demonizing the other side. In this case, it isn’t Finney who is racist, she is trying to paint the Republican base as inherently racist.
Which is what they would have to be to hold the opinion she attributes to them.
Now it is true that in studies of racism, ethnic resentment, agreement with racist stereotypes and suspicion of motives based on race, about four times as many Republicans as Democrats score in the “clear racial bias” range. But that is still in the low teens, percentage wise. That leaves upward of 80% of Republicans that have no clear racial bias in their attitude, and certainly Herman Cain’s 20%-30% support can be drawn from that portion of the Republican base.
Objectivity aside, I think they are dummies to believe the country can be run like a pizza joint, but I also think they are dummies to believe the country can be run like a hedge fund (Mitt Romney) or an energy company (Bush & Cheney).
Back to the topic: MSNBC wants the Republicans to be racist, just like FOX wants the Democrats to be Socialists and Communists and free riders on the government dole.
The more they can get their base to believe they are the good guys, those are the bad guys, the easier it is to make money. It is a sales tactic, demonize your competition and if your customers believe it, you get 100% of their business. Even advertisers like it, a captured and concentrated ideologically monotone demographic makes it easier to tailor ads that appeal to them, and their ads are more likely to be seen multiple times by the same people. It delivers more bang for the buck.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/1527 Cain leads Perry in Texas.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/10/herman-cain-texas-poll-rick-perry-/1 Cain has a thirteen point lead among the most conservative voters. Conservative voters in Texas hate Obama.
Maybe we are just getting tired of people in politics and it has nothing to do with race….we just don’t like them….him….or her….
Seems to me that Karen Finney was commenting more on her perceptions of the racial attitudes of some Republicans who support Cain rather than on her perceptions of Cain. Finney has the experience and access to inside information which makes her point of view worthy of consideration. Pointing out the racial attitudes — as well as the cynacism — of some of Cains conservative “supporters” appears political fair game to me and I have no problem with nor criticism of this messenger.
mespo……I think you have a point….
Bron:
The problem with your analysis is its just the opposite.
“The reason the left doesnt like Herman Cain is that he is a person who has made it pretty much on his own, doesnt like big government and is apparently free market.”
He would be cheered if that was his resume but there’s something there that cancels it all out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/herman-cain-strives-for-new-levels-of-anti-muslim-buffoonery/2011/03/04/gIQAJ7WpLI_blog.html His anti-muslim bigotry is probably the reason the most conservative Texas republicans support him.
eniobob:
and what is that?
he has a very good resume, math, computer science, rocket scientist, succesful CEO, succesful business owner. Plus he seems like a pretty decent guy.
What more do you want?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/27/ron_paul_will_not_rule_out_a_third-party_run.html
She was definitely making an allegation that Republican voters are racists. That plays very well to Democrats, and that’s who her audience really is. Democrats are angelic, Republican are demonic. That has indeed, as others pointed out, been a hallmark of the presidential race. It is called, propaganda. In this case, divide and conquer.
People should stop falling for it. There’s a whole other way of being in the world. OWS is trying to show that if people can break free and hear the message. OWS isn’t denying racism, sexism etc. They are dealing with it directly and openly. You can’t fall for divide and conquer when you’re trying hard to work things out with others.
As long as you’re willing to demonize your fellow citizen, you’re an easy mark for manipulative presidential campaigns. The way out is to quit being so easy of a mark!
Herman is right, it is your fault if you fail, unless you have a physical or mental disability which incapacitates you.
Otherwise – “if it is to be it is up to me.”
OWS but only during the day. Sunshine Protesters?
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/31/will_the_right_give_herman_cain_the_clarence_thomas_treatment_now/singleton/
Cain has demonstrated a very disturbing, and typically conservative, lack of compassion or sensitivity toward his fellow citizens and outright contempt for the disadvantaged. His assertion that African-Americans are brainwashed against conservatives assumes blacks are either unknowledgeable, unaware or should ignore the GOP’s original and ongoing opposition to Civil Rights legislation, Affirmative Action, jobs and their quite recent attempts to not renew the Voting Rights Act. That would easily qualify him for the allegation levelled by Ms. Finney. These conservatives seem not to recognize the concept of community or of country.
S.M.,
I don’t think you understand something. No one here questions that Cain works for Wall Street. No one here questions that any of the Republican hopefuls work for Wall Street. Why Finney’s statement is propaganda is that it functions as 1. pride-up for Democrats and 2. it distracts the loyal Democratic base from seeing that Obama works for Wall Street as well.
I don’t know how extensively you have been keeping up with Obama’s push to give out yet another great deal to the banks concerning foreclosures. If you have a moment to read the blog “naked capitalism”, you will see a well laid out and researched (with references) on how Obama is selling out homeowners and giving a windfall to banks.
The truth is, every major party candidate, Democratic and Republican knows their place and is happy to keep it. This isn’t really about race per say. It’s about race being used as a form of propaganda.
I have been struck by the racism of many white liberals. I hear how proud they are that they elected a black man for president. They are so hip, cool and enlightened!!! What Bull Shit. That’s just racist. White liberals are basically saying, oh, any black guy will do. As if black guys are interchangeable and you don’t have to worry about what they are doing in office. Guess what, a black woman ran for president in 08. Her policies, while not uniformly fantastic, were 1000 times better than the policies of the black guy. She was the one person to stand up and challenge the selection of GWB! Where were white liberals in 08? Certainly not looking at the track record of the black guy!
As a black law professor in my town said, he learned his lesson supporting Clarence Thomas! For the love of god, people of any color are not interchangeable and it doesn’t give white liberals credibility as non-racists to act like they are.
rcampbell:
“Cain has demonstrated a very disturbing, and typically conservative, lack of compassion or sensitivity toward his fellow citizens and outright contempt for the disadvantaged.”
**********************
Cain’s a nutcase. I’m always amazed by the defense some folks assert that goes: Cain must be qualified since he’s made lots of money. Cain is fabulous proof that one need not be particularly bright, have well-reasoned positions, nor be overly concerned about his fellow man to make big money. H.L. Mencken had it right from the start when he reminded us about the qualifications for making money in this country. Things really haven’t changed much. Ask Sarah Palin.
“Next time they show his commercial,you tell me if that smile of his isn’t the look of some one preparing to laugh all the way to the bank.” (eniobob)
———————————————————————–
Exactly … just like Sarah Palin did. Though I have to say that curling smoke ad is nothing when juxtaposed to the turkey kill.
I’m with Mespo on this. It must be pointed out that historically radiate have always had Black people that they liked because they weren’t “uppity”. The well known phrase uttered historically “he/she is a good one, not like all the others”. I can’t count the number of arguments I’ve gotten into after hearing that said. Cain represents the Anti-Obama to Republicans and he is popular because they delight in what they see as irony.
“historically racists”. Sorry, for some unknown reasons my phone turns “racists” into “radiate”.
Jill, I am well aware of Yves Smith. I agree with her sometimes and sometimes not. My husband is a big fan of hers, and, yet, he still supports Obama. I trust African Americans on Herman Cain and for the most part they view him very unfavorably.
Isn’t this the same guy who claims that Planned parenthood’s main objective is to kill black babies? What goes around comes around.
mespo,
“Cain’s a nutcase. I’m always amazed by the defense some folks assert that goes: Cain must be qualified since he’s made lots of money. Cain is fabulous proof that one need not be particularly bright, have well-reasoned positions, nor be overly concerned about his fellow man to make big money. H.L. Mencken had it right from the start when he reminded us about the qualifications for making money in this country. Things really haven’t changed much. Ask Sarah Palin.”
*****
I agree. I’d add that there are lots of dishonest and greedy people who make money and don’t give a darn about anyone else. We wouldn’t have had the financial disaster of 2008 if all the bankers and investors on Wall Street had had more scruples. A few hundred scummy immoral/amoral people made billions while they decimated the financial stability of many countries. It’s easy to make money when you’re a crook…or have no conscience.
BTW, I’m not implying that Herman Cain is a crook.
S.M,
I am not asking you to trust Yves Smith. I am asking if you read her analysis (including citations) about how Obama is selling out the people once again in favor of the bank. Bill Black is also offering an analysis which comes to this same conclusion as does Glen Ford.
Why trust African Americans to make your decision for you about Herman Cain? Why not make your own decision based on the facts?
Each person is just that, a person. While it is a great idea to consider what others have to say, the final decision must rest with our own analysis. The analysis of a woman, Yves Smith, a black man, Glen Ford, a group of people that you reference above, African Americans (not all of whom agree with you), a white man, Bill Black or anyone else can’t take away the need for us to make our own analysis and decision.
The idea that identity politics remove personal decision making has been and continues to be disaster.
Jill, I do. While I respect Glenn Greenwald’s voice, I do not always agree with him, either.
“Democrats are race obsessed for the most part…”
“She was definitely making an allegation that Republican voters are racists. That plays very well to Democrats, and that’s who her audience really is. Democrats are angelic, Republican are demonic…. It is called, propaganda. …”
Are you two actually arguing that the Democrats are more racist then the Republicans? Perhaps you think that the Southern Strategy is a myth, or somehow failed? Or that the American south is not painted red?
Republicans ARE more racist than Democrats, and it is hardly “propaganda” to say so.
Roger,
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying race is being used as propaganda aimed at Democrats. The form it takes is called: “ego or pride up”. Please reread the post! Thanks!!!
Roger,
Amen. Racism has been a Republican standard since Nixon. While both parties are in thrall to corporate power, that doesn’t mean they are all alike. From my perspective Obama has not done well, but compared to the alternatives…….
Roger Lambert:
Yeah, I know all those southern democrats like George Wallace, Orville Faubus, Bull Conner, they all became republicans during the Reagan years.
Those are the liberal and evangelical republicans we have been trying to purge ever since.
I think you will find quite a few republicans voted for the civil rights act and quite a few democrats voted against it.
Republicans are bringing back Jim Crow with the voter id laws not democrats.
my ID gets checked at the polling place where I vote. Big deal, the state provides ID’s for people who dont drive and who are citizens.
Charles Mingus’s ode to democrats:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/19/347880/south-carolina-voter-id-law-violates-voting-rights-act/
Propaganda working exactly as intended. People are engaged in name calling about who is more racist, Republicans or Democrats! Mission Accomplished!!!
Instead of working on the problems we face together as Republicans and Democrats (or none of the above), there is division. That Democrats are much purer and better than those awful Republicans seems to be the consensus opinion of the posters. That is “pride or ego up”, divide and conquer at work.
O.K., what about looking at things differently? Racism is a huge, destructive problem in this society. So lets work on it, together. One way to work together on racism is to work together on ameliorating the lives of everyone in our society. When racism arises, we confront it together. When sexism arises, we confront it together. When classism arises, we confront it together.
That’s not easy and many times it’s not going to be successful. But I guarantee working together has the elites scared shitless for a reason–it is the only way things will get better.
Spot on, Jill.
It’s funny how the issue of racism as propaganda comes up and immediately some people want to make it partisan. Racism, like corruption, is an ultra-partisan problem. The only way to effectively deal with the issue is head on and without the distraction of partisan politics. The two least relevant colors in this issue are red and blue. That’s a distraction from the issue just like it is a distraction from the issue of corruption. The relevant color in question is – again – green: who stands to profit off of playing the racial division game? The issue with Cain isn’t his skin color. It’s that his ideas are childish, geared toward protecting corporate criminals, and enhancing the revenues of the 1% at the expense of the 99%. He just another venal and not very bright corporate stooge based on his performance to date.
“liberal and evangelical republicans”
I think one would be hard pressed to find Republicans who are both liberal and evangelical–unless, maybe, they have split personalities.
Racist voter suppression has become a partisan issue in many states including Texas.
Gene H.
“eniobob
1, October 31, 2011 at 7:19 am
There is something about Herman Cain that does not feel right in the Black Community.I really can’t say what it is but its there.”
“The issue with Cain isn’t his skin color. It’s that his ideas are childish, geared toward protecting corporate criminals, and enhancing the revenues of the 1% at the expense of the 99%. He just another venal and not very bright corporate stooge based on his performance to date.”
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Racist voter suppression”; again, ask who benefits from making this a racial issue instead of simply a color blind voter disenfranchisement issue?
Both parties do. Remove that tool from their toolbox and force them to address vote suppression period as the issue and you know what would happen? Both parties would miraculously quite raising the issue as much since their both guilty of gerrymandering and don’t want to draw attention to the skeletons in their own closet. It’s the inherently charged nature of injecting race into the issue that makes the topic appealing to partisans from either side when the issue should simply be denial of and malfeasance regarding the voting rights of citizens perpetrated by any politician no matter his political team of choice.
**they’re
While the laws are superficially colorblind, the effects are disparate.
“It’s the inherently charged nature of injecting race into the issue that makes the topic appealing to partisans from either side” (Gene)
I remember when Bill Clinton did it to Obama … and then got all pissed off when he was called on it.
Then Obama did it to Clinton and Clinton got all pissed off again because he claimed nobody called Obama on it.
We had white flight from the democratic party in Texas. Most of the democratic office holders are minorities.
We had white flight from the democratic party in Texas.
Why?
“While the laws are superficially colorblind, the effects are disparate.”
And why are the effects disparate?
The answer once again has more to do with green than any other color.
It does have a lot to do with green if you can’t afford to buy the hand gun carry license which you can use to vote with. A student id does not cut it.
If you view Herman Cain as a black man, you will have a superficial understanding of Herman Cain. If you view Herman Cain as a corporate CEO, you will have a better understanding of Herman Cain.
It has probably been many years since anyone has said “no” to Herman Cain. CEO’s are treated like maharajahs by their underlings. Men in $600 suits are reduced to saying, “Yes, sir. Great idea, sir!” after just listening to the most stupid idea they have ever heard. If the ass kissing continues unchecked, bad things happen. One is delusions of infallibility in the mind of the CEO. This leads to getting rid of people who question the bad idea or offer modifications to it in hopes of preventing disaster. The CEO is then left with a staff of “yes men” who only reinforce his ego.
At the level of the factory, or the warehouse, or in Herman Cain’s case, the pizza store, the people who live in the real world and do the actual work will instantly recognize the bad idea for what it is- a bad idea. They know that to oppose the bad idea is to lose their jobs. They also know that implementing the bad idea will result in disaster for which they will be blamed. The result will be to quietly modify the bad idea enough to keep the business going and not let the CEO know that you did it. Again, letting the CEO believe that his bad idea is a great success only worsens the situation.
I have noticed in the Clown College debates that Herman Cain has a streak of arrogance lying just below the surface that comes out in the open when anyone questions his ideas. There are no flaws in his 9-9-9 plan- it’s just that YOU don’t understand it. It’s the CEO mentality at work. Unfortunately for Herman Cain, in the world of politics you can’t fire those who say “no” to your bad ideas.
Mitt Romney has the opposite problem. “You didn’t like my Massachusetts healthcare plan? Really? Well, I wasn’t too crazy about it myself. How about if we shoot all the sick people? Do you like that better? Yes? O.K., that’s my new healthcare plan.” (Subject to change at the next campaign stop)
Jill said:
“That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying race is being used as propaganda aimed at Democrats. The form it takes is called: “ego or pride up”. Please reread the post! Thanks!!!”
I’m sorry, but I still do not understand your point. I don’t see how saying something fairly reasonable is propaganda. And I don’t see how the Republican nominee leader being black does not have racial significance.
The Republican (or the Democrat) party machines simply do not let just anyone be a player for the nomination, and the only reason that Herman Cain was allowed into the race is because he is black and conservative. It certainly wasn’t the novelty of his ideas, or the care and preparation he has put into his platform.
The Democrats did not play the race card here – the Republicans did, so I think that Karen Finney, the reporter, had every right to analyze the blowback of a black Republican nominee backed by a party that has done everything it could possibly do over the past 60 years to marginalize black citizens, and to subtly inflame the racial prejudice of their overwhelmingly white base. Let’s face it – one has to be a pretty strange dude to be a black Republican. There are some real cognitive dissonance issues there, I would think, so I can see Finney’s remarks as sincere, not calculated.
I think a black Republican candidate who might become the nominee has interesting and novel implications, so I really can’t see how Finney’s comments would be interpreted as propaganda – even if they may well be wrong.
HenMan,
“It has probably been many years since anyone has said “no” to Herman Cain. CEO’s are treated like maharajahs by their underlings.”
This is precisely why I don’t think business is an appropriate selling point on the background of politicians. In fact, I see a business background as being and becoming increasingly a negative when it comes to office seekers. Statesmanship is a totally different skill set than being in business. It requires an ability to reach compromise, selflessness, the ability to set aside your own ego in the pursuit of solutions, to consider the whole picture instead of the narrow (and amoral) profit motive as the gauge of success or failure, and the ability to gauge and apply nuance to assessing and solving problems. These are skills that are often antithetical to being a successful businessman, but required to be a great political leader. A career in the Diplomatic Corps (at least before that idiot criminal Bush ran off a great many of the dedicated serious diplomatic types) is a far better background for developing the skills a great political leader needs than business is or ever could be.
If you modify the following from $600.00 to $5000.00 you have a description of why everything in elite world is SNAFU: “It has probably been many years since anyone has said “no” to Herman Cain. CEO’s are treated like maharajahs by their underlings. Men in $600 suits are reduced to saying, “Yes, sir. Great idea, sir!” after just listening to the most stupid idea they have ever heard. If the ass kissing continues unchecked, bad things happen. One is delusions of infallibility in the mind of the CEO. This leads to getting rid of people who question the bad idea or offer modifications to it in hopes of preventing disaster. The CEO is then left with a staff of “yes men” who only reinforce his ego.”
Bron:
“…I think you will find quite a few republicans voted for the civil rights act and quite a few democrats voted against it.”
That’s nice. So there were a few republicans who voted for the CRA. How about the tens of millions of Republicans who that were motivated by the Willie Horton ad? Why are nearly all Republicans in this country very motivated indeed about ‘welfare queens’ when welfare payments are a tiny percentage of our expenditures?
You are an apologist for a party of bigots.
Professor, I think you need to go read the Wikipedia page about the “southern Strategy.” When LBJ said, when he signed the civil rights act in 1964, that he’d lost the south for Democrats for 40 years, he was wrong. It’ll be more like a hundred. The reason Republicans win the south is because Republicans employ the southern strategy to win racist white votes. Further, you don’t see Democrats trying to stop minorities from voting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
“You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.
“And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger”.–Lee Atwater
“The Republican (or the Democrat) party machines simply do not let just anyone be a player for the nomination …” (Roger Lambert)
So true … Cain is part of the show and he had to get loud in order to pull the media away from all the OWS drama and get them centered back on the “Obama/Clinton/Biden/Kucinich/etc” that worked so well for the democrats last time and the republicans are trying to copy this time.
Now, there is the danger that when Romney is anointed, Cain might be chosen … remember Palin …
Right now Mr Cain finds himself in the position of making that old saying come true.
“the people you meet on the way up are the same ones you’ll see on the way down”
Well Clarence (my bad) Herman you did say you were going to bring humor to the White House but I’m quite sure that you didn’t imagine that you would be the one that’s being laughed at and not with.
Bron,
Ignore the propagandists! The elites are getting nervous, that is all!
“It does have a lot to do with green if you can’t afford to buy the hand gun carry license which you can use to vote with. A student id does not cut it.”
The state I live in offers state photo ID’s if you dont drive. why doesnt Texas do the same? Charge a small fee to cover the admin cost, just like a drivers license.
I’m with eniobob: Cain is in it for the money, but he is not the only one; e.g., Gingrich. Cain has just found another way to make money, all the slings and arrows be damned. I mean, look at Ms. Palin, she became a multi-millionaire, had to endure a lot of guff, but kept her eye on the ball and is laughing all the way to the bank, now. Only in America! The Land of Milk and Honey.
In your heart of hearts, do you really, really think that his party faithful would vote for a darkie?
mr.ed
I thought his name was Herman Cain aka “cornbread” haven’t heard the “darkie” moniker till just now,i guess you know something some of us don’t.
This is a really interesting speech from Bill Moyers. I hope people will hear him out.
http://www.commondreams.org/video/2011/10/31-1
Roger:
Breakdown by party for Civil Rights Act:
House of Representatives:
Democrats for: 152
Democrats against: 96
Republicans for: 138
Republicans against: 34
Senate:
Democrats for: 46
Democrats against: 21
Republicans for: 27
Republicans against: 6
40% of democrats in the House voted against it vs. 20% of republicans who voted against it.
In the Senate 31% of democrates voted against it vs. 18% of republicans who voted against it.
Roger:
what do you mean by welfare queen?
The Willie Horton add was used by Al Gore if memory serves. It also went to the mind set of someone who would turn a hardened criminal free on a pass.
Bron:
“The Willie Horton add was used by Al Gore if memory serves.”
Sorry,your memory is wrong.Very wrong as a matter of fact.
Gene H:
what great statesmen were diplomats first?
Wrong question, Bron.
What great statesmen weren’t also great diplomats is the question. The answer is “none”. Being a great statesman requires the skills of a diplomat. As President, you are chief diplomat for this country.
Herman Cain has said “Relative to foreign policy, I don’t need to know the details of every one of the issues we face.”
This is wrong in attitude, approach and fact. As the chief diplomat of the United States, he needs to know every detail of every foreign policy issue we as a country face. His attitude that he doesn’t – as well as other positions and personality traits – shows a marked unfitness for the office of President.
Some people are natural diplomats. Some people aren’t. However, life as a businessman is not going to give you the skills if you don’t already possess them.
Gene H:
“A career in the Diplomatic Corps (at least before that idiot criminal Bush ran off a great many of the dedicated serious diplomatic types) is a far better background for developing the skills a great political leader needs than business is or ever could be.”
I thought maybe you had some people in mind.
Gene H:
how can one person know all the details of all of the problems in the various parts of the world?
I could see Ron Paul running as a third party candidate if the match up is Obama versus Cain.
So now Gore ran the Willie Horton ad?! Yikes.
Bron,
That thing you so often fail to do: read and understand the context of what you read. Plus, the formulation of that question shows a lack of understanding of how to triage foreign policy issues in itself. The ones you need to know everything about as President and chief diplomat are those that directly impact our nation’s interests, not all of the foreign policy issues of all the world. However, you do need to be generally informed on those as well. Why? Because what was once solely an issue for other countries can become an issue for us if circumstances change.
A great many of the regulars here manage to stay quite well informed on foreign policy issues and none of us are running for President.
It’s not an impossible task.
Gene. It may be in some measure about green (money) and motive may be slippery to pin down but as was pointed out by SM (beat me to the punch!), the effect of the voter ID laws is suppression and falls on the citizenry in a disparate manner.
The one good aspect of EO law enforcement was that motive was de minimus, effect was controlling. The effect of the current push for voter ID has a disparate impact on poor people, students, persons of color, handicapped persons and old people. The effect of the ID laws is disparate, it is discriminatory against both protected and non-protected groups but easily identifiable groups and some of the non-protected groups can be broken apart to fit in the class of potential voters that are protected.
I am going to have to get a BCert copy at the cost of $15.00. If I get it by mail I need a computer printer (don’t have one now) to print out a copy of the form. My other option is to travel downtown and do it in person. I need that document to get a driver’s licence or an ID card. Even if they were free I’d still have to get myself to one of the two places I need to go to get it. The city website says also that a mail request has to have the request form notarized. There is information that indicates that a phone request can be made and I’m going to check that out but I assume a credit card is necessary. in any event, the need for a special trip and the attendant parking fees, the need for a notarized form if by mail or a credit card is burdensome IMO. The value of these cards in voting is fundamental.
I’m not one of those people that look at a collection of public officials that are smart enough to get themselves elected and wonder if they just don’t understand what they are doing. That’s naive. These states, primarily Republican, are setting out with discriminatory practices to suppress the vote by disenfranchising persons of color and other groups known to be affected negatively by such practices and specifically protected by the law against such discrimination. The programs have racist and bigoted effects ergo the architects are are racist and bigoted.
That the Justice Department (spits) isn’t all over this is a national disgrace.
LK,
I think you both may have missed my point. In itself the ID laws are about green, but the disproportionate effect is also about green. It’s not affecting those communities disproportionately because of their inherent genetic racial make up. It’s affecting those communities because they are disproportionately poor. That it happens to kill two birds with one stone is just gravy for the elitist race baiter/haters.
Gene H. and Bron-
The two Presidents who come to mind as prior diplomats were Herbert Hoover and George H.W. Bush.
Hoover’s diplomacy consisted mainly of humanitarian aid- emergency food distribution to Europe during and after World War I. This experience was probably useful to his knowledge of foreign affairs during his Presidency, but after the Crash of 1929, his problems mainly involved dealing(unsuccessfully) with the domestic economy.
George H.W. Bush was U.S. Envoy to China and later U.S, Ambassador to the United Nations. I’m sure that the latter post was crucially important to him as President in his highly successful formation of an international coalition to drive the Iraqi Army out of Kuwait in the first Gulf War. His connections with the Saudi Royal Family didn’t hurt either!
HenMan,
Those were the two I could think of with diplomatic corps experience as well.
And Jefferson (France).
And Adams (John to the Netherlands).
And Adams (John Quincy to Russia).
Sorry, I’m a little speedy on the “Post Comment” button today.
Lottakatz-
You said, “The value of these cards (voter ID) in voting is fundamental.”
Unless that was a typo, I would have to disagree with you. I would say that the value of these cards in voting is zero. The incidence of voter fraud by means of false impersonation is virtually non-existent.
I strongly agree with you that the sole purpose of voter ID laws is to disenfranchise voters who tend to vote Democratic. Every American who participated in this outrage should be deeply ashamed of him/herself.
eniobob:
I think you are right. Apparently Gore just spoke of Dukakis’s program of letting muderers out on passes. I was around for that election too.
http://cache.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/The_real_meaning_of_Willie_Horton+.shtml
Lottakatz-
And isn’t it remarkable that the Republicans have no such zeal for demanding that all voting machines be absolutely tamper-proof and produce a verifiable paper copy of each vote. And demanding that the Justice Department break up the one voting machine company that now owns 70% of the voting machines in America.
henman:
I fail to see how showing a state issued ID is burdensome. I see long lines at the DMV. My children had to show their birth certificates to participate in sports to make sure they were the right age.
Too much election fraud goes on. Personally I wonder how many elections are actually fair and the guy with the most votes actually wins.
Bron, first of all, voter fraud is different from vote fraud. There is little or no voter fraud and these state id’s are an attempt to reduce participation.
Wow, I mean seriously, Karen Finney’s kind of hot!
Bron-
“I fail to see how showing a state issued ID is burdensome.”
____________________________________________________
I refer you to Lottakatz comment at 5:34 p.m.
Your phony naivete doesn’t pass the smell test. Photo ID is about disenfranchisement of Democratic voters. Period. I wasn’t born last Tuesday. Save your B.S. for someone else.
Bron, People showing up at the polls and voting as others or multiple times is virtually non-existent. Its a lie.
______
Henman, yes, no vote total is credible because of the machines. We need to go back to the paper/pencil ballot.
Lottakatz- “You said, “The value of these cards (voter ID) in voting is fundamental.”
Unless that was a typo, I would have to disagree with you. I would say that the value of these cards in voting is zero. The incidence of voter fraud by means of false impersonation is virtually non-existent”
Your deeper point is absolutely correct but demanding a picture ID makes driver licenses’, State ID’s and student ID’s vital especially if the state says student ID’s are no good. I could use a Passport if I had one and if they weren’t 100$…
*
Actually we’re both right
______
Our emphasis is on different faces of the same coin- I put the emphasis on the discriminatory nature of the disenfranchisement in it’s discrete parts, you find the emphasis to be class-based first. I can agree with that easily enough since a lack of power/money is general to all the relevant parts. Looking at it my way makes it easier to fight legally but really, I’m not going to hold my breath on that: the people most appropriate to take that on just aren’t interested. This may be the easiest argument you’ll ever ‘win’ from me- enjoy!
rafflaw:
I honestly fail to see how asking someone to get a picture ID reduces voter participation.
If the problem is access, pass a law and set up state ID centers around the town in poor neighborhoods so they can get state ID’s.
maybe i’ll look for the link later but i did see a story that tenn or ky. allows people over 60 to get a non picture drivers license. then recently passed a voter id law. now anyone with a non-pic license must go back to dmv to get a picture id and some are being charged for it making it a pol tax.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/26/353712/tennessee-veteran-voter-id-pay/
Gene, the last part of my posting at 7:50pm was to you, I was just typing away and didn’t put your name on it. Sorry.
Bron,
If you are poor, old or handicapped, it is harder than it should be. Plus, there is no voter fraud problem so the reason for your ID cards are a fraud.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/31/zombie-obama-email-virginia_n_1068128.html
Henman:
Hoover was also able to score some of that humanitarian aid- emergency food distribution after the Great Flood of 1927
Madison, Monroe, Van Buren and Buchanon were all Secretary’s of State prior to their Presidency
Secretary’s=Secretaries
whoooosh
rafflaw:
“If you are poor, old or handicapped, it is harder than it should be.”
how so? Where I live we have a public transportation system that is pretty inexpensive. And they have something called MetroAccess which will pick up handicapped people from their homes and take them to and from wherever they want to go.
Bron, where you live is not everywhere. Most cities do not have public transportation any more. And not every person can get out, even if there is transportation. How about the old and frail, the sick, the crippled?
The point is, there has been no documented proof of any significant voter fraud by Democrats since the bad old days in Chicago. The only widespread voter fraud these days is the caging done by the Republicans, which is deliberately designed to suppress likely Democratic votes. That, and the strange case of disappearing votes in Diebold machines. Curious that; they make ATM machines which give both a receipt and keep an internal paper record of every transaction and take your picture at the same time. But they cannot seem to design a voting machine that will do exactly the same thing. Curious. On second thought, not really.
Otteray Scribe:
I to think we need some sort of paper receipt when voting and I was going to suggest a retinal scan as identification but thought that may be an invasion of privacy.
In fact I was thinking of a retinal scan being checked each time a person voted to make sure they hadnt already voted and the image printed on the receipt to make it near impossible to counterfeit paper receipts.
Voting is very important and so I would say have some sort of way to have shut-ins registered or even be allowed to vote on-line or have a traveling “ballot box” to make sure they were able to vote.
Yesterday I stated that in the Black Community there was something about Herman Cain and although Gene H. brought out a point which I agreed with,after further thought during the night and some radio listening I can only give my opinion and that is that Mr. Cain for all his life achievments his message is not inclusive and uplifiting,and again from the things I hear of his story it should be.
BTW:
“By Eugene Robinson, Published: October 31
Responding to his insurgent campaign’s first crisis, Herman Cain was upbeat and defiant. “To quote my chief of staff and all the people around this country, ‘Let Herman be Herman,’ ” he said Monday. “And Herman is gonna stay Herman.”
I was afraid of that.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/robinson-let-herman-cain-be-gone/2011/10/31/gIQAiXo8ZM_story.html
Bron,
“The Willie Horton add was used by Al Gore if memory serves.”
Your memory does not serve you well. It was Lee Atwater and George H. W. Bush who used the ad against Michael Dukakis in 1988.
Karl Rove is the heir apparent for Lee Atwater and his dirty tricks operations. Curious that on his deathbed, Lee Atwater had a “come to Jesus” epiphany and apologized for the sociopathic things he had done to people.
I cannot see Rove apologizing or recanting anything he has done, deathbed confession or not.
Otteray,
I’d say Rove looks more like Atwater’s “heirless” apparent.
Elaine:
you are a little late, I already acknowledged I was wrong:
eniobob:
I think you are right. Apparently Gore just spoke of Dukakis’s program of letting murderers out on passes. I was around for that election too.
http://cache.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/The_real_meaning
I hear that Rove is taking his dirty world to Canada…and advising them in how to win elections….
Here’s a little bit of encouraging news:
” Giant corporations are being increasingly open about their use of shareholder money for political campaigns.
More than half of America’s 100 largest companies now publicly disclose — or even prohibit — the direct use of corporate cash to fund political activity, according to a recently released study by the Center for Political Accountability, a pro-disclosure advocacy organization. This percentage may not seem especially impressive, but it marks a striking turnaround from 2003, when the Center first started tracking corporate polices. “Voluntary disclosure of political spending is becoming a mainstream corporate practice, and a growing number of companies are putting restrictions on the political use of their money,” the study concluded.
Thomas Mann, a congressional scholar and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who gave the keynote speech announcing the release, said that this shareholder-driven push for transparency might be the only thing pushing the envelope toward corporate responsibility in a campaign finance environment shaped by 2010′s controversial Supreme Court ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which overturned decades of laws that restricted the ability of corporations to spend large amounts of money on political campaigns.”
http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/corporate-spending-citizens-united-koch-brothers-campaign-finance-self-regulation
I looked through the threads and don’t see that anyone has shared this video of Cain breaking into song during a press conference as he was answering questions about old sexual harassment charges … what a guy.
It appears the infection is going viral……
Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks
Karl Rove’s help for Sweden as it assists the Obama administration’s prosecution against WikiLeaks could be the latest example of the adage, “Politics makes strange bedfellows.”
Rove has advised Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt for the past two years after resigning as Bush White House political advisor in mid-2007. Rove’s resignation followed the scandalous Bush mid-term political purge of nine of the nation’s 93 powerful U.S. attorneys.
These days, Sweden and the United States are apparently undertaking a political prosecution as audacious and important as those by the notorious “loyal Bushies” earlier this decade against U.S. Democrats.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-kreig/rove-suspected-in-swedish_b_798737.html
An example of the market working, I certainly dont want a corporation I am invested in giving contributions to people I disagree with politically.
More choice is what we need not less.
Karl Rove announced that Ohio would be the centerpiece of his new quarter-billion dollar effort to defeat progressives in 2012.
Rove & Koch & Teabaggers … we’re gearing up for a real political battle here.
Rove may have good reason for fearing WikiLeaks and Julian Assange.
OS,
Why is that?
AY, because the last thing Rove wants is for his own secret memos and dirty laundry hung out for the world to see.
Recall that he had all those frantic meetings with US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald. Word was that he kept having to go back and “clear up” potential “misunderstandings.” Translation, Fitzgerald kept catching him in lies and cane close to indicting him for perjury and obstruction. I am still waiting to see Rove perp-walked by unsmiling men in black suits.
eniobob,
I don’t always agree with Eugene Robinson, but I think he summed up the Cain candidacy quite accurately with the line, “So many reasons to oppose this loopy candidacy, so little time.”
Off Topic: I didn’t read the following story until a few minutes ago.
Regulators Investigating MF Global
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Regulators-Investigating-MF-nytimes-752197815.html?x=0
Federal regulators have discovered that hundreds of millions of dollars in customer money has gone missing from MF Global in recent days, prompting an investigation into the company’s operations as it filed for bankruptcy on Monday, according to several people briefed on the matter.
The revelation of the missing money scuttled an 11th hour deal for MF Global to sell a major part of itself to a rival brokerage firm. MF Global, the powerhouse commodities brokerage run by Jon S. Corzine, had staked its survival on completing the deal.
Now, the investigation threatens to tarnish the reputation of Jon S. Corzine, the former New Jersey Governor and Goldman Sachs chief who oversaw MF Global’s demise, making it the first American victim of Europe’s debt crisis.
What began as nearly $1 billion missing had dropped to less than $700 million by late Monday. It is unclear where the money went, and some funds are expected to trickle in over the coming days as the firm sorts through the bankruptcy process, the people said.
But regulators are examining whether MF Global diverted some customer funds to support its own trades as the firm teetered on the brink of collapse. If that was the case, it could violate a fundamental tenet of Wall Street regulation: Customers’ funds must be kept separate from company money.
Such a finding would move the discussion from sloppy internal controls at MF Global to something more troubling. While the investigation is in its early days, it raises the specter that regulators ultimately could sanction the firm or the employees responsible.
MF Global and Mr. Corzine have not been accused of any wrongdoing.
Elaine M.
My exGovernor may be sweating a bit,I think.
I like visuals to make a point:
Report: Wis.-Based Org’s Cash to Cain Might Breach Campaign Laws
By National Journal Staff
Updated: October 31, 2011 | 11:49 a.m.
October 31, 2011 | 11:40 a.m.
Two senior aides to Herman Cain ran a private organization based in Wisconsin that helped the Republican presidential candidate launch his candidacy by paying for “iPads, chartered flights and travel to Iowa and Las Vegas,” a possible breach of federal tax and campaign laws, accordig to a report in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
Speaking Monday on Fox News, Cain said he could not address the Journal Sentinel report.
“I’m not aware of this report. … We are gonna look at it to see if there is any validity,” Cain said.
The Journal Sentinel obtained internal records that show the Cain campaign owes Prosperity USA around $40,000 for a number of items. Prosperity USA, which now appears to be defunct, according to the report, was run by campaign chief of staff Mark Block and deputy chief of staff Linda Hansen.
It is unclear whether the campaign repaid the funds, but Cain’s federal election filings do not mention the debt, and the figures do not match payments from the cadidate’s campaign, the Journal Sentinel reported.
Herman Cain does know his place. He knows he is a free man to do what he wants with his life and to work hard to be successful in whatever he chooses to do. That is the opposite of the blacks who think they are still slaves and allow the Democrats to be their Masters.
Dolores:
I thought that I would share an e-mail that was sent to me :
Lawdy, I don’t know who Aunt Dorothy is, but as the old folks used to say, she takes no tea for the fever!
MESSAGE TO HERMAN CAIN
The greeting on your website says, “we are looking forward to hearing from you”, but I’m not sure you will be lookingforward to hearing from me, Mr. Cain.
I saw on the internet that you called the President a liar. I deplore what you are doing and the things you are saying about the President in order to gain favor with these greedy, thieving, selfish, Republicans. How dare you call President Obama a liar. You are a pathetic, obviously brainwashed black man who has lost his way and his mind. You have had opportunity and a smattering of privilege in America that has made you forget your roots. I despise people like you and Clarence Thomas, and you both have Georgia roots.
What is it with you black men from the south who grow up in an oppressed environment and end up siding with the
oppressor? The recent case of Troy Davis in Georgia is an excellent example of the present day oppression and legal lynching that still takes place in that state and in this country. The political party that you praise so highly is presently enacting laws to suppress the black vote, the student vote, and many elderly voters across this entire country. Yet, you choose to stand with people who display such obscene and un-American behavior. You would throw black people (including the President of the U.S.) and others under the bus to curry favor with these non-caring and hedonistic people.
You were there when your Republican cohorts cheered about the death penalty which disproportionately affects black men and women in this country – some of whom have been proven to be innocent. You should be ashamed to stand with these people and yet, you appear to be proud of such an association.
Yes, President Obama does believe in fairness and sharing the responsibility of the tax burden, it is not socialism nor is it class warfare, and he is not a liar for saying it. That kind of rhetoric from you and those with whom you identify is nothing more than a weak defense for the greedy and despicable philosophy that you choose to embrace.
You had the unmitigated gall to tell Wolf Blitzer on CNN that two thirds of African-American people are brainwashed and incapable of thinking for themselves. You are surely touched in the head. The millions of us who are capable of thinking for ourselves – we know who is really brainwashed – you – brainwashed whiter than snow.
Do you really think those people with whom you stand on the debating platform really respect you and see you as their equal? They as well as others see you as a joke and a person who is engaging in buffoonery. A Republican majority House and Senate would never pass your “so called” 999 plan. They would never deem it in their best interest. Besides, there are many who believe your plan is a coded message from Satan. If you flip the numbers they become the 666 plan.
You will never be President of this country, and I thank God for that. I must say, you certainly live up to your last name. Just as Cain in the Bible so blatantly slew his brother, you are equally willing to do the same politically and economically to millions of black and middle class citizens of this country. Such behavior is extremely ugly, and need I remind you, Mr. Cain, that God does not like ugly.
P.S. If it wasn’t for the fact that I’m having a nice day, I would tell you what I really think about you.
IF YOU ARE TIRED OF WHITE AND BLACK REPUBLICANS CALLING PRESIDENT OBAMA A LIAR-
PLEASE FORWARD THIS SO OTHERS MAY KNOW THE TRUTH.”
It makes me crazy when inteligent people enter into ridiculous arguments; like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
It is not necessary to THEORIZE about whether or not voter suppression works: it does. We tried it, we checked, it’s simply a fact.
Likewise the question of whether racism aligns with party boundaries: it does.
It used to be the Democratic party that embraced the racists. Republicans grew tired of clinging to the short end of the stick, and gradually they too embraced the racists. When LBJ decided to reject the racists and embrace the lower classes, he drove the racists into the arms of the Republicans. The record of how many D’s and R’s voted yea/nay for the CRA is muddied because the realignment was not yet complete at that time.
And so it is a fair question to ask why any black man would choose to be a Republican. If the answer isn’t obvious then you should be suspicious.
Personally, I think Cain is quite a bit better than anyone on that stage with him and so do a good number of my Lily white middle class friends. The only one who comes close in stature is Romney but he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Given the same beginning as Herman Cain I seriously doubt Mitt would have been able to accomplish as much.
Mr. Cain’s story, black or white is what this country was intended to be for people.
When I think about what Herman Cain has accomplished in his years on earth, it is truly remarkable. Very few men or women accomplish half as much. Instead of denigrating him he should be held up as an example of what is possible in the this country with a little hard work, some native intelligence and personal initiative.
Lawyer: Cain accuser wants to tell her side of story
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/lawyer-cain-accuser-wants-to-talk-but-is-barred-by-agreement/2011/11/01/gIQA0bOIdM_story.html?wpisrc=al_politics
eniobob:
I would like to hear her side of the story as well.
I have met a few of these ivy league educated women who work for associations in DC and there is a definite type. Rather uptight young women who think they are the center of the universe. Think Valley girl but educated.
If she has credibility then Herman Cain is done and I will hold my nose and vote for Romney.
Cain Has His Biggest Fundraising Day
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/281834/cain-has-his-biggest-fundraising-day-nro-staff
““It is just frustrating that Herman Cain is going around bad-mouthing the two complainants, and my client is blocked by a confidentiality agreement,” Bennett said. “The National Restaurant Association ought to release them and allow them to respond. “
Bda:
Stick a fork in him.
eniobob,
He’d probably ooze grease…..
AY:
:=)
Bron,
“I have met a few of these ivy league educated women who work for associations in DC and there is a definite type. Rather uptight young women who think they are the center of the universe. Think Valley girl but educated.”
You’re stereotyping women who were educated at Ivy League schools. I’d say that is no different from the stereotyping of Blacks..or any other group of people.
Off Topic:
Exclusive: Romney Family Investment Group Partnered With Alleged Perpetrators Of $8 Billion Ponzi Scheme
By Lee Fang on Nov 1, 2011
ThinkProgress
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/01/316040/romney-solamere-ponzi/
Excerpt:
Mitt Romney, his son Tagg, and Romney’s chief fundraiser, Spencer Zwick, have extensive financial and political ties to three men who allegedly participated in an $8.5 billion Ponzi scheme. A few months after the Ponzi scheme collapsed, a firm financed by Mitt Romney and run by his son and chief fundraiser partnered with the three men and created a new “wealth management business” as a subsidiary.
In an exclusive interview with ThinkProgress, Tagg Romney confirmed their business relationship, but falsely claimed that the men were cleared of any wrongdoing associated with the Ponzi scheme. Tagg Romney told ThinkProgress that his three partners collected about $15,000 from their involvement in the Ponzi scheme. Court documents obtained by ThinkProgress show that the legal proceedings are ongoing and the men made over $1.6 million selling fraudulent CDs to investors.
Elaine,
Great response and great update. I was shocked to read that Gov. Romney might be involved in a Pozi scheme and we are no talking about Social Security.
Elaine:
what is wrong with stereotyping? Pit Bulls attack children, but not all pit bulls attack children.
Southern Whites like moonshine and NASCAR. Etc and so forth.
rafflaw,
Here’s a story for you:
Mafia Takes Over Publicly Traded Company
By Loren Berlin
Daily Finance
11/1/11
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/11/01/mafia-takes-over-publicly-traded-company/
Excerpt:
As Occupy Wall Street protestors chant about the criminals in the boardroom, actual thieves — including men associated with the mafia — have spent years quietly running FirstPlus Financial Group (FPFX), a Texas-based company and a one-time subprime lender that boasted former Vice President Dan Quayle as a board member, and used NFL Hall of Famer Dan Marino in its ads.
On Tuesday, Nicodermo S. Scarfo, a made man within the Lucchese organized crime family, was arrested at his home. He’s one of 13 men charged with the illegal takeover of the publicly traded company, among other racketeering charges. “The defendants gave new meaning to ‘corporate takeover,’ ” said U.S. Attorney Paul Fishman.
“Criminal activities have evolved from the back alleys to the board rooms,” said Michael B. Ward, special agent in charge of the FBI’s Newark Field Office. Still, the tactics remain the same, he says: “physical threats and intimidation to gain leverage and loot lucrative businesses.”
Scarfo is not the only one of the 13 with ties to organized crime. Salvatore Pelullo, an associate of the Lucchese and Philadephia La Cosa Nostra families is also charged, as are Nicodermo D. Scarfo (Scarfo Sr.), the imprisoned former boss of the Philadelphia family of La Cosa Nostra, and Vittorio Amuso, the imprisoned boss of the Lucchese family. Others charged include an accountant and five lawyers.
According to an indictment unsealed on Tuesday, the men used both physical and finance threats to take control of FirstPlus in order to plunder the company for their own financial gain. Scarfo, Pelullo and their partners replaced the company’s board of directors with their own cronies, and then named their accomplice, lawyer William Maxwell, as special counsel to FirstPlus so that Maxwell could use that position’s authority to funnel millions back to the mobsters.
As a public company, FirstPlus was required to submit annual filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which the mobsters did, though they routinely presented fraudulent information or simply omitted certain details. As a result, the public in general, and investors particularly, were left in the dark as to the true nature of the company and its management.
Bron, I just realized that your problem is that you have been far too sheltered. You think of people in simplistic stereotypes. Your solutions to all the economic and unemployment problems, as well as the health care crisis suggest an upbringing in a gated community.
To just touch on your Southern stereotype of moonshine and NASCAR. This is the country of rodeos and Tennessee Williams. Of Eudora Welty and Oprah Winfrey. Of the KKK and the Southern Poverty Law Center. Of ballet and line dancing. You cannot stuff people into a single pigeonhole. Nor can the economic problems of the country be solved with bumper sticker slogan simplicity.
Rand Paul On Cain Scandal: It’s Getting To Where You Can’t Joke With Women Anymore
TPM2012
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/rand-paul-on-cain-scandal-its-getting-to-where-you-cant-joke-with-women-anymore.php?ref=fpb
Excerpt:
Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) has an interesting take on Herman Cain’s growing scandal: honestly, he says, these days it seems like women can’t take a joke.
“There are people now who hesitate to tell a joke to a woman in the workplace, any kind of joke, because it could be interpreted incorrectly,” he told the National Review. “I don’t. I’m very cautious.”
Paul, whose own campaign was marked by allegations he mistreated a woman years ago, says the media shouldn’t be reporting stories like the one that’s put Cain in all the hot water he’s in this week.
Bron,
Ann Coulter is an Ivy-League educated woman.
*****
Ann Coulter: ‘Our Blacks Are So Much Better Than Their Blacks’
TPMMuckraker
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/ann_coulter_our_blacks_are_so_much_better_than_the.php?ref=fpb
Excerpt:
If you were waiting for Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity to weigh in on the Herman Cain sexual harassment allegations — and what they mean for racism, sexual harassment and America — you’re in luck.
Appearing on Hannity’s show Monday night, Coulter agreed that the Cain story is a “high-tech lynching,” adding that “it’s coming from the exact same people who used to do the lynching with ropes, now they do it with a word processor.”
She continued that liberals are “too dense” to see the “many wonderful qualities” about Herman Cain, because “all they see is a conservative black man.”
“That’s why our blacks are so much better than their blacks,” Coulter said. “To become a black Republican you don’t just roll into it. You’re not going with the flow. You have fought against probably your family members, probably your neighbors, you have thought everything out and that’s why we have very impressive blacks in our party.”
Otteray Scribe:
how many people in the south like moonshine and NASCAR? Come on be truthful.
I have worked all over the country in various capacities but mostly as a blue collar guy when I was younger. So no I have not led a sheltered gated lifestyle.
I am not much into nascar but moonshine and Levy Garret? Now you are talking.
I am well aware of the souths contribution to American culture. I am merely saying you can make generalizations about people, objects, animals, etc. which are not necessarily right for the particular individual but may hold up across a broad spectrum.
Elaine:
I rest my case.
“Paul, whose own campaign was marked by allegations he mistreated a woman years ago, says the media shouldn’t be reporting stories like the one that’s put Cain in all the hot water he’s in this week.”
He’s joking of course?
““That’s why our blacks are so much better than their blacks,” Coulter said. “To become a black Republican you don’t just roll into it. You’re not going with the flow. You have fought against probably your family members, probably your neighbors, you have thought everything out and that’s why we have very impressive blacks in our party.”
That’s the prescription ?Now I got it.
Who wouldn’t believe someone like Ann Coulter who has suck a great trak record of being correct?
raff,
I know it’s just a typo, but “suck a great trak record” made me snort my Sprite.
Gene,
Unintentional, but funny! I sometimes screw up the touch screen keyboard.
Bron,
“I rest my case.”
I’ll have to remember that.
Do you feel the same way about ditzy blondes who were educated at Stanford?
“In your heart of hearts, do you really, really think that his party faithful would vote for a darkie?”
I find myself wondering if some people vote for Cain to vent their frustration with Perry or Romney, knowing that Cain won’t be the real candidate.
While I was in college, an incredibly homely girl from my high school, who probably had an IQ of 170, got nominated for homecoming queen. A fraternity bought into it and spread posters all over. Other fraternities and sororities put up posters supporting the usual blonde cheerleaders. The girl, herself, mounted no campaign and made no remarks. She was overwhelmingly picked and accepted the “honor” with grace and dignity that shamed all the people who admitted voting for her as a joke on the real contestants.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/10/the-fringe-frontrunner.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67411.html Cain beats Romney in a head to head match-up.
I think I’ve posted here long enough for those who know will know that I am just making an observation on this and won’t go crazy.
IMHO I think these two women may not be women of color,I have know inside knowledge,but if true I want to see how this whole conversation will change with a lot of Cain supporters.
Accusations of sexual harassment mean nothing.
Not only are “accusations” meaningless, but the definition of sexual harassment has radically changed. In the beginning it was actual horrific actions such as making the female’s employment, hours, etc dependent on having sex.
Now sexual harassment includes telling a woman she looks nice, noticing her new dress, hairstyle, etc. Not only can telling a woman an off-color joke be considered sexual harassment but simply telling a joke where the woman over hears it is sexual harassment.
And along the lines of accusations being just that. We should remember that Clinton was accused not only of numerous sexual harassment claims but even of rape.
Being awarded a monetary amount for filing a sexual harassment claim means nothing. After all we all know that many lawsuits are just paid because the amount to shut the accuser up is sometimes cheaper than a lawsuit even if you’re innocent.
eniobob:
“IMHO I think these two women may not be women of color,I have know inside knowledge,but if true I want to see how this whole conversation will change with a lot of Cain supporters.”
what does that mean? You mean the typical bigoted idea of the black man raping the white woman?
So what if they are white or black, I would like to hear what they have to say. Apparently there arent any other allegations from Cain’s past. Usually where there is smoke there is fire.
I am betting these 2 women got pissed off at him because he called them honey or patted them on the head and didnt take them seriously. They have degrees from Ivy League schools after all.
Bron:
“what does that mean?”
If you read what I posted,you would’t have to ask.
eniobob:
I read it and dont know what it means, I think I know but why dont you explain it to me. I wouldnt want to put words in your mouth.
jeff:
“Accusations of sexual harassment mean nothing.”
*********************
How’s about three of them with paid settlements and with the proclivity for such behavior confirmed by two other people — one a conservative radio host and the other a Republican political consultant. If these were auto accident claims he’d be in the assigned risk pool. No trial on each even necessary.
And it’s true that some people — very few actually — assert comments on clothing or hair style cold constitute harrassing behavior, but so is inviting a subordinate up to your private corporate apartment amid a barrage of sexual innuendo. And that’s just the tip of what’s being reported.
How’s the dirt down there in that hole Mr. Ostrich.
Mespo:
I would like to see the entire body of evidence before I come to a conclusion.
And one must remember that Bill Clinton, Jack Kennedy and Martin Luther King were not saints but they were very effective leaders.
Did Cain ever have sex with interns or use the secret service to hide his dalliances?
How is the air up there in Heaven Mr. Holier than tho?
Devil with the blue dress on, indeed.
Bron:
“I would like to see the entire body of evidence before I come to a conclusion.”
************************
That Cain and his former employer won’t let us tells — even yells —all I need to know.
Air’s fine, by the way, once you get used to that conservative stink rising up here.
Mespo:
The “stench” you smell is truth, as a liberal it would tend to make you nauseous.
I would guess there are probably a few legal reasons why the information remains private.
Clinton really raised the bar on sexual escapades involving public figures. Cain asking a woman to his apartment for a game of hide the salami doesnt even come close. And even if he told one of the other ones she had a nice behind, so what? Maybe she does, and we all know how women dress to hide certain prominent anatomical structures so that men will not notice.
She should have told him he had a small package and wasnt interested.
But if he did do what is alleged, so what? He didnt get an oral favor from an intern in the White House.
Bron,
“Clinton really raised the bar on sexual escapades involving public figures. Cain asking a woman to his apartment for a game of hide the salami doesnt even come close. And even if he told one of the other ones she had a nice behind, so what? Maybe she does, and we all know how women dress to hide certain prominent anatomical structures so that men will not notice.
“She should have told him he had a small package and wasnt interested.
“But if he did do what is alleged, so what? He didnt get an oral favor from an intern in the White House.”
*****
Oh my. That’s a great “good ole boy” attitude you have. Maybe you can get a job with the National Restaurant Association. Sounds like you’d fit right in with the likes of Herman Cain.
Speaking as a older woman who knows something about sexual harassment in the work place, I’d say it’s not a laughing matter. I guess misogyny is still alive and well and acceptable to some men. I hoped we had gotten past that by now.
Elaine:
Your boy Clinton set the bar, be glad Cain doesnt have some one like Carville talking about using a 20 to troll for trash in a trailer park and denigrating the character of the women Clinton groped or had sex with who didnt really want his advances.
Yes, apparently it is acceptable to some men.
When you were supporting Clinton against those evil republicans, maybe you should have thought about the message you were sending to young men and to young women.