Dr Andrew Chung, a cardiologist, is under considerable public scrutiny after the arrest of a friend, Ebony Berry, 38, and the death of her daughter, Markea Blakely-Berry. The 16-year-old weighed only 40 pounds and the police discovered that Blakely-Berry was a follower of Chung hunger diet where he advocates the value of staying “wonderfully hungry” by eating no more than two pounds of food a day. Below is a video of his advocacy of the program, which appears as medically sound as hitting your head with a hammer because it feels so good to stop.
Chung has visited the mother in jail and insists that his philosophy of “hunger is wonderful” does not advocate starvation.
The case against Blakely-Berry, pictured is one of simple neglect but there remains questions over the influence of Chung and his bizarre views. Chung’s arguments in favor of the program rarely leave the most elementary level with such explanation as “being hungry is wonderful. The opposite of hungry, which is not hungry, is the opposite of wonderful, which is terrible.” He insists that Berry is “an ordinary, single mom who’s stressed out.” Really? She had a daughter who was 16 and died at 40 pounds. She also has a history of child abuse from Michigan.
The potential liability for Chung could be challenging. He has protected speech rights in advocating this lifestyle. It could be compared to other extreme low-calorie programs offered by others. These programs are sometimes based on research showing low-calorie diets in animals like mice result in greater longevity. Unless he had knowledge of the abuse or directed Berry in some fashion, the liability exposure would remain limited. There is the question of whether an adult can survive and thrive on two pounds of food a day, a proposition contested by medical experts.
Source: Daily Mail
One has to wonder…..what gets into these people’s heads…..
AY – I think what gets in their heads is a huge dose of methane because they have them firmly planted in in their own personal methane factory.
Has to be Frankly…..just has to be….
” Georgia ” Doctor ” under fire ! Why not arrested for murder ? Is it really legal to kill people slowly in USA ? Well thinking about it – maybe it is.
The Mother and this ”Doctor” both need to be investigated… I can’t believe that the mother didn’t see anything wrong with a 16 year old girl weighing only 40 lbs. Shouldn’t she have seeked help before her child died? And while this doctor is under investigation, put him in prison, and put him on his own diet… Feed him two pounds of grass a day….
The research was interesting on this extreme low calorie thing. It worked for mice, and increased their longevity. But then it didn’t work when it was tested on mammals of a higher “order” than rodents — I believe it was small apes of some sort. That was recently reported. So it can only be concluded that it might foster longevity in the rodents. That might make it more likely that rodents will take over the world if we ruin our agriculture, destroy our oceans, and continue overpopulating. Hmmm.
The guy is obviously nuts; the mother who is incarcerated is obviously both nuts and dangerous; the particular method of child abuse, starvation, is a standard one, though.
I am presuming that the “two pounds” of food does not include water? I am also presuming that the doctor has lost his license to practice? “First, do no harm.”
I have a very knowledgeable GP. She’s told me that cardiologists are obsessed w/ weight and fat in diet. Here’s the problem. Our brains consist of mostly fat and we need it in our diet to function properly. It’s beginning to look like this obsession w/ fat in our diet is causing dementia. Our culture, in so many aspects, has lost the most basic rule, that being balance is the key to health and happiness.
Probably SOME, maybe even MOST, cardiologists can be obsessed with weight and fat in diet. But many other kinds of people are too. I haven’t met very many cardiologists, but those I met were normal people; this guy is out of his mind and dangerous.
“Andy Chung and Ebooooneee!
So different when in harmoneeeee!
Too small for some,
As one would think,
But thinkin aint something these can drink…”
The typical recommended diet is 2000-2300 calories a day; however, for weight loss, average women can reduce to 1200, and men to 1500.
One pound of Sugar has 1754 calories; two pounds has about 3500.
One ounce of Cheddar Cheese has 113 calories; so a pound has 1800. Two pounds would have 3600.
Two pounds of cooked bacon has about 5800 calories, and two pounds of mayonnaise has about 6200 calories.
Those are extreme, but my point is simple; two pounds of high calorie food is far more than sufficient to provide all the calories a person needs in a day. With about an ounce of supplements to ensure sufficient essential minerals, nutrients and vitamins (particularly vitamin C) the issue is really getting sufficient protein, and a half-pound of meat provides about what is needed.
A person could become obese on two pounds of food per day. And before I am criticized about “good calories,” “empty calories,” cholesterol, etc, let me point out that for medical reasons (related to cancers) some people have been on 100% fat diets with nutritional supplements for over a decade and are still lean and living.
The basic idea of many diets is to find a simple rule that ultimately limits caloric intake, restricting the weight to two pounds is not even necessarily going to cause hunger; it will just drive people to depend on calorie dense foods and avoid vegetables; which are usually calorie-light (two pounds of iceberg lettuce has only 127 calories).
The typical recommended diet is 2000-2300 calories a day; however, for weight loss, average women can reduce to 1200, and men to 1500.
Two pounds of Table Sugar has about 3500 calories.
Two pounds of Cheddar cheese has 3600 calories.
Two pounds of cooked bacon has about 5800 calories.
Two pounds of mayonnaise has about 6200 calories.
Those are extreme, but my point is simple; two pounds of high calorie food is far more than sufficient to provide all the calories a person needs in a day. With about an ounce of supplements to ensure sufficient essential minerals, nutrients and vitamins (particularly vitamin C) the issue is really getting sufficient protein, and a half-pound of meat provides about what is needed.
A person could become obese on two pounds of food per day. And before I am criticized about “good calories,” “empty calories,” cholesterol, etc, let me point out that for medical reasons (related to cancers) some people have been on 100% fat diets with nutritional supplements for over a decade and are still lean and living.
The basic idea of many diets is to find a simple rule that ultimately limits caloric intake, restricting the weight to two pounds is not even necessarily going to cause hunger; it will just drive people to depend on calorie dense foods and avoid vegetables; which are usually calorie-light (two pounds of iceberg lettuce has only 127 calories).
nick,
Your comment brought to mind stories about “failure to thrive” babies from a couple of decades ago:
A Yuppie For A Parent Can Be Hazardous To Baby`s Health
April 24, 1988
By Ronald Kotulak and Jon Van
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-04-24/features/8803110641_1_viral-infection-sexual-activity-nursing-homes
Health experts are seeing problems of stunted growth among children of yuppie parents who are overly health conscious, according to a child nutritionist at the University of Illinois, Champaign. Some young, well-educated, high-income parents are inadvertently malnourishing their infants because of fears that they might become overweight or develop a lifestyle that leads to heart disease, said Mary Frances Picciano, U. of I. professor of nutrition. “What we`re seeing is yuppie parents raising children who suddenly stop growing. That`s what failure to thrive means,“ she said. Children normally nearly quadruple their birth weight during the first two years, but this natural growth period can be slowed when infants are fed low-calorie, low-fat diets, said Picciano. Many of these parents were overweight as children and don`t want to see their offspring become fat, Picciano said.
nick,
That is so true … balance is the key and a good GP is uber-important when attempting to implement all the specialists’ recommendations into one’s health regimen.
Elaine, Thanks, excellent point. I can see parents wanting organic food for their kids. Our daughter is a nanny for two beautiful girls. Mom is an MD[internist] and dad an engineer. They buy organic but aren’t nuts about it. When they go out to eat they don’t sweat it. However, mom is an internist and the girls[2 and 4] drink full fat milk, yogurt, cheese etc. Our daughter just got married last Saturday and we all talked about how being a nanny is great preparation for our daughter when they decide to have kids. The 4 year old was @ the wedding and seeing her eyes light up when she saw her nanny as a bride was worth a million bucks.
Nick,
Now I’m getting all “family” of me, but let me say that that would be one wedding I would have liked to attend.
https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/default.aspx
Why does the Department of Agriculture tell you:
—-what’s in 6,000 different foods?
—-what’s in what you eat and does it meet nutrition goals?
—-that you can register all or part of your
activities and see if it is healthy???
Because the interests of the “food producers” was more important than yours. Now it is better, But the fights are still vigorous every five years when it is updated. Now the FDA is involved. And more money spent on it. Diabetes, etc growth scares them.
It’s more attractive now, maybe with a view to attracting youth.
I tried the old version for at least a year. It was not easy for me but will be for you. Because it is based on the “foods” on your shelves, not those in my grocery store.
Why did I do it? That is another story. Ask yourself. Good but time consuming. Maybe the new version is less so. It does contain surprises.
https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/default.aspx
AY – I don’t know if that was a compliment or an insult but I will plead guilty either way!
The universe gave me this personality & I’ll be darned if I won’t inflict it back on the universe.
(Sorry about that double post; the first one ended up in “moderation” so I modified it to eliminate links and reposted it. Usually when posts go into moderation they never come out, that is what I expected this time too.)
Do you have a smartphone? Then these USDA Supertracker nutrition and motion people need to develop an app. Tell them that. Get help making menu choices, shopping, getting told to take a walk instead of a nap.
Even we non-smart cell owners can get a 800-number to dial. There we can listen through 100 different alternatives to choose between, and spend the 30 minutes time we should have spent taking that walk, OR the nap!
Do your bit for a more responsive and responsible government. The bureaucracy will be there long after you, so gettem to do some work meanwhile. Good luck.
And you tea-baggers can go bite the bullet. You may cut back funding. OK. But bureaucracy knows how to survive. All of them. The tactic is to do less real work but to make it look bigger, flashier, etc.
And keep all the bodies except the incomps and the walking wounded. Things always get “better” when a new war is started. Never long to wait.
First, this is a horrible and completely unnecessary death. I feel very badly that it occurred.
1. isn’t Dr. Chung responsible for recognizing malnutrition? Even if he truly believes in his “cure”, if he sees a particular patient isn’t being “cured”, but is in fact appearing harmed, doesn’t he need to discontinue his “cure” until an evaluation of malnutrition is made, preferably by an outside specialist, a pediatrician? Many doctors prescribe diets, medicine, etc. on their belief that those things will work. When clearly, they are not working and are in fact causing harm, doesn’t that create legal responsibility?
2. the entire matter appears to be a working Milgram experiment. Why is the mother unable to see her daughter’s deterioration? If she abused this girl in the past, she may hate the girl, she may be insane, she may be unable to parent at all. Add to that background, an “authority” telling her this is the right thing to do and it isn’t difficult to see how this could happen.
People, ordinary people, were willing to turn on others because an authority told them to do so. A history of being an abuser amplifies the power of an authority figure.
This is very sad and I am sorry for all this young girl’s needless suffering death.
The good doctor is the perfect metaphor concerning psychotic government that is praised for democratic ideals, when actually it is part of a planetary species that is not the brightest bulb in the celestial chandelier:
(Perfect Storm: New Global Ground Zero). Odds are that some of the deniers in the House would consider him to be Ayn Rand spot on.
Dung Ho say Chung full of dung. He should learn the way of Pol Pot.
Tony C. THANKS A LOT !!!
How am I supposed to enjoy my Bacon and cheese sandwiches, slathered with mayonnaise now! ….. However I do add lettuce and whole wheat toast to make them healthier. That’s why I allow myself two
)
Actually I am semi serious, two X a year I do make those. I have a hard time thinking of any sandwich worse for humans, thus my “moderation”.
The fast food joints sell them, and add a 1/4 pound of hamburg.
I imagine the state’s medical licensing authority is going to take two pounds of flesh out of Dr. Chung.
@David: Sounds good!
Once you have figured out your supplements, it really does not make much difference where you get your calories, I do not think bacon, cheese and mayonnaise is unhealthy at all. IMO the bread is worse for you; the carbs and sugars are a weak poison that require moderation.
The modern “ingested cholesterol” panic is medically ridiculous and being proven so in one study after another. Stomach acid breaks down cholesterol; all the cholesterol in the bloodstream is manufactured by the body, and the ingredients for that cholesterol come primarily from sugars and carbohydrates in the diet; not the proteins and fats in the diet.
I could go on, but people that really are on a low carb diet (<30g a day, <2300 calories a day) and eat lots of protein and fats have the best blood work; in fact this diet has reversed borderline diabetes.
This can all be traced back to Ansel Keys, who missed a key ingredient in his analysis of diets and heart disease across various populations. His study produced a significant correlation between the consumption of animal protein and dietary fat and atherosclerosis; but he failed to include in that study the consumption of refined sugar. It turns out these two things (animal protein/fat and refined sugar) rise together; but if the sugar is included in the statistical analysis, it becomes responsible for the rise, and the correlation between atherosclerosis and the consumption of animal fat/protein vanishes almost completely.
This has been proven in one study after another since 1990 or so, and the message still isn't out there. High cholesterol foods do not produce high blood cholesterol; high sugar diets produce high cholesterol. And refined flours are converted by digestion into sugar, fast.
I am not personally on a low carb diet; I restrict my caloric consumption (by the week, not by the day; I find it easier to eat much less during the work week to permit a higher consumption during the socializing weekend.)
idealist, Thanks, it was a great wedding. All I insisted was that it be great food, not wedding fare..great food. The couple picked a Persian restaurant, owned by Iranian immigrants. It’s in downtown Minneapolis. They had the wedding and reception right @ the restaurant. An uncle of the groom is a minister[PHD from Yale Divinity] and he performed the ceremony. He flew in from Spain w/ his mate and they were wonderful. The mate was like Franc from the flick Father of the Bride. The daughter and her husband were afraid a couple homophobes might cause a stir after a few drinks. But even one of the homophobes went up to the minister and genuinely thanked him. He was that great. We had hummus, flatbreads, and fire roasted lamb appetizers. Dinner was a salad, fire roasted tenderloin, chicken, or sea bass[I tasted all 3 and they were superb]. Cupcakes instead of wedding cake and as everyone ate, drank, and danced there was flatbread pizza put out @ 10:30 to help soak up the drinks. There were lots of kids @ the wedding which in my opinion makes it even better. The groom is an RN. He calls himself a “murse”. He’s what any parent wants in a son-in-law.They’re in Playa Del Carmen and going to Tulum tomorrow. I’m pretty much recovered but my bank account will take awhile to recuperate!
There is a holocaust happening every year now:
(Perfect Storm: New Global Ground Zero). The “other” holocaust only happened once.
So, those who deny a holocaust each year are condemning those from nations that deny the holocaust that only happened once.
That fits a psychopathological profile quite nicely.
Nick Spinelli,
Wonderful. Great ingredients, great people, lots of kids. And good Persian food. Any ME food if done well and honestly is magnificent—except Greek, which is too sparse for me.
Your menu sounded great.
Speaking of Playa del Carmen, I was in Cozumel for a week in 1980 and took a excursion to Tulum with a local guide. On the way back we stopped to bathe in a wonderful shallow water cove where the only amenities
were a bathhouse for changing and fresh water. Now it is commercialized. Maybe worth taking a peek at now.
The world has changed so much in the last 40-50 years.
The coast line from del Mar was unexploited then.
http://www.xelha.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
My souvenirs: a ChacMool belt buckle and a sea conch shell fished up by a local after he had extracted the maat with his knife.
Nick S.
Tell the groom that personally I would prefer to be called “durse” rather than “murse”. Yours to figure out why.
My, at times, morning helper is a 19 year old from Tehran originally. She’s going home for a month to visit Grandma, part of a line of Dutch and Iranian generals’ families. Untouchable there in Iran. Their restaurant here is too far from Stockholm to visit.
Hwe older brother started it, she ran it for two years, and now little brother has taken over a year ago. No drones here. Going to take her SAT when she oomes back.
TonyC,
Thanks for that. 7 nation study and Ansel Keys I knew about. The dangers of refined and simple carbo as opposed to fats and own cholesterol generation also.
But that his study missed the carbo side amazes me.
But that scientists agree that fatty acids are not important, is not what I had heard, and apparently not most people either. Not contradicting, just saying. I’m outa touch. My BP is fine 130/70 and my HDL/LDL ratio is too. And I make my own foods, no pre-fabs.
So what’s to worry.
Doctors and USDA are still pushing to stay away from saturated fats, empty calories, and salt (sodium). Other doctors use triglyceride as an indicator of relative concentrations of PUFA,and variants, pushing to get away from the small molecules which easily penetrate and attach to blood vessel walls. (Empty calories being alcohol and simple carbos)
Idealist, I can’t believe I’m hearing this: Greek food is too sparse for you? Maybe I knew all different Greeks! Have you had kote arakas? Lamb stew? Imam Bayeldi? Egg-lemon soup? OMG, those white beans? Maybe the Greek restaurants you’ve been to are following Dr. Andrew Chung’s diet, but the ones I went to (and worked in) were not sparse at all!
Malisha,
You see what happens when you have too little to compare with and really are just a red-neck from NC.
After a three days in Athens just before the junta takeover and eating two meals on the
Placa, my only experience is here in the world’s capital of “bad-food-restaurants”, ie Stockholm.
I also spent a week in Crete, where the best restaurant had great reds and local brandy, but were
the owners private reserve. The fish were fresh, but none were brought in on election day.
Here in Stockholm, non-discerning customers are satisfied with whatever as long as it is saucy (not sexually so).
My favorite is kinda OK. They buy their lamb, chilled to 32 degrees, imported from NZ. But most Swedes look only at the prices and listen to the music. The greek wave died out in 1990s. Now it is Turkish pretenders who enjoy a modest wave. Turkish resorts are the cheapest now especially since Egypt is a hazardous place.
You folks don’t realize what good food you have in the USA.
Try this if you fancy the best sushi and sashimi, Edomae style, and have a “thick wallet”, in NYC.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/26/dining/reviews/restaurant-review-ichimura-at-brushstroke-in-tribeca.html
I doubt if there is one equal in the whole of Europe to this one. Just read it and salivate.
PS Let’s face it, Greece had their wild spice herbs, but were not on the spice route. Just my ignorant opinion. Glad it was noticed.
PS to Malisha,
As one who has been on the inside, you should know.
Once was given the advice to do as they claimed that all greeks do: go direct to the kitchen, raise the pot lids, smell, ask to taste, and then decide. ?????
Never dared myself.
Malisha, Avgolemeno soup is one of my favorites[beef or mushroom barley is my other fav]. The avgolemeno is my personal cure for the common cold. It warms the body and soul.
Idealist, I spoke @ length w/ the patriarch of the Iranian family. He reminded me of many of my Italian uncles growing up. He sits @ the bar drinking Persian coffee and holds court. He despises what his home country has become and was ashamed the current President of Iran was speaking @ the UN. The man is Christian and spoke of atrocities by both the Shah and “Those thugs” now running his country.
well shucks, Idealist, you got a big chunk of it right there — “And I make my own foods, no pre-fabs.” That’s where the manufactured food-like substance makers stuff in all the extra fat/salt/sugar! (see The End of Overeating by Kessel)
I expect it may be slowly leaking out (the info about animal protein NOT being the cholesterol problem) — eggs became OK to put back in your breakfast a couple years ago, eh?
Sure wish the “it’s the sugar, not the animal fat/protein” had been around even 10 years ago, so I could have let my dear mother know daddy’s heart attack was NOT the fault of her feeding him the foods he wanted — farm boy wanted bacon and eggs for breakfast, so that’s what she made him, ca. 1945-1959. She beat herself up over that for the rest of her life. Now we know there’s ALSO a huge genetic component in Daddy’s side of the family, AND he was a total, ginormous Type A…
Friends,
You know yourselves that oranges, lemons and bananas are not all equal, just like we humans.
The Cretian oranges were too large to be allowed to be
exported to EU. The Cretian lemon was actually sweet and full of umame. The frost nipped red oranges of Sicily are the most wonderful in the world, but must be bought in a “food for the moneyed” store to get the right ones. One NEVER encounters them in the chains here.
So let’s give ourselves a little latitude in all this.
I bet you Americans can beat me hands down with all the specialty products you have available. The things I note from the USA matches the internet in its diversity and richness. Now how much is for show and how much is for consumption is another thing.
Blouise gave me an early lesson, and that was on one subject ONLY. Go check your neighbors garbage can when they are away for the weekend. Maybe they are secret connaisseurs.
And when the Swedes years ago kidded about American food I smiled wryly. The young generation has been there; and they are only starry eyed on return.
chimene,
Not to play “wise” because I am not. But we can reflect that whatever happens to a loved one, we can always find some reason to blame ourselves. I did.
And I will summarize my position by saying: If you did not poison him so he died within 24 hours, you are not guilty of anything. You made the food he liked, most women do. (I made it in our family.) But if it isn’t the food then it is something else you take the blame for.
I can even go so far as to say that the best of things
happening don’t guarantee a good outcome in the end.
Examples from both South America and America are sport teams crashing in their planes on the way home after winning the match. Should thay have stayed at home? Well, what would have happended to their bus going to the neighboring school for a match?
But reasoning does not always help, but keep trying with yourself, for those who wish to do so.
That’s life.
@Idealist: Most MDs are parrots. They are so afraid of malpractice suits, they simply do not pay attention to research that is perfectly valid and repeated a hundred times; they worry (with very good reason) that a malpractice attorney and a jury will find fault with veering from the status quo.
Sometimes they don’t know the truth, sometimes they do, but will not prescribe it; they will just not resist a patient that figures it out for themselves.
Culturally speaking, as cultures become wealthier (since the early middle ages) their consumption of meat AND refined flour and sugar both increase together. They start eating candy, cakes, putting sugar into sauces, candying their vegetables and making glazes for everything.
Ansel Keys missed that, and as smart as he was, still engaged in “magical” thinking, namely the idea that eating fat makes you fat, as if fat was not digested and there were no waste system. He did that despite evidence to the contrary; even Ansel Keys knew of native Eskimos that survived on nothing but fat and proteins, with zero sugars and carbs, and ignored it. IMO Keys did bad science, and has done the world harm in the process.
“One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.” -Joseph Stalin
TonyC,
Let me say that here torts against medical practitioners is not “legal”. But here they have their norms prescribed. Some are curious and will consider new stuff like micro-CRP tests, ie tests for low level inflammation, presumably in the walls of the arteries.
High doseage atorvastatin (80mg) was studied and shown to drive down this CRP level. It was also said to stabilize the plaque accumulations.
My doc was interested in the micro-CRP, but got rebuffed by his boss. And an increase in statin level was not in order since my lipos were excellent and risk for liver damage was there.
So much for central steering of clinical practice.
Ansel was Eisenhower’s private physician, if that had any importance. He was I presume the first to do a large study, not alone I guess, but his name is the one remembered. Ansel left the well-known French paradox, but not many in the media talked about carbs. Well, can it be the sacred corn product so loveed by America?
So the first. like Ansel, are often given too much credence, since the days of Aristotle.
We have later examples: the race to discover DNA, the race to decode it, the race for polio vaccine (Jonas Salk), the race for HIV source, etc. And now the race for cancer cures, Alzheimer cure, ALS, MS, type 1 and 2 diabetes, autism (one in eight now), and the unification of gravity and quantum mechanics.
Sorry, words tumble out. It is late here. CUL.
PS It is plain as the nose on your face. The carbs drive quickly up the blood sugar level. The pancreas drives it down with insulin, which turns it in the liver into the body’s chief fat: cholesterol which is converted into storable fat for meager days.
I’m mpt sure I want to go the Eskimo way, but the paleotological might be one to consider. We have a doc here who has written a book on it.
tony c is right but a 2 pound per day diet needs to be well thought out to maximize nutrition.
the doctor is an idiot if he just tells people 2 pounds and doesnt put any limitations on what can be eaten.
This doctor is committing malpractice IMHO.
I wonder if the doctor has a license to practice? My former GP has a degree from Shanghai, where he also learned (how much?) TCM. But he has a degree from here too.
I registered and used the USDA tracker system to input my meals yesterday, see link above. It showed me clearly how I stood on major groups. I had lots of calories, but not veggies. Veggies are high in nutritions, you know. So will compensate with a good italian soup (name?) today. Do one and you got three meals with some capability to vary: grated parmagiano, garlic olives, cook up sun-dried tomatoes on the re-heat, serve garlic butter toasted bread, etc. Anybody hungry?
Minestrone, of course. From minestra.
Come va, senore? Capice? No va bene? Mal! Malissima mzxima!
@Idealist: The “Paleo” diet is just another proxy that goes too far, IMO. (For others: The idea is you do not eat anything your paleolithic hunter-gatherer, stone age ancestors did not eat.)
At least for me these fad diets are too unscientific and misleading. For example, our stone age ancestors were also strenuously physically active, I have read estimates (based upon reproducing their lifestyle) they burned three or four times as many calories as the modern person does sitting behind a computer.
Unless you plan to run a marathon a day, and the last half with 100 pounds of meat strapped to your back, why would you adopt the diet of somebody that does that?
A similar modern exercise might be the Marine Corp “five mile run:” Five miles to the mountain, five miles up the mountain, five miles down the mountain, five miles back to camp. In full pack.
My life is not that strenuous.
“I am not personally on a low carb diet; I restrict my caloric consumption (by the week, not by the day; I find it easier to eat much less during the work week to permit a higher consumption during the socializing weekend.)” (Tony C)
I’ve been following that same routine (by the week) for years and it has worked quite well. I tend to watch the carbs closer than the calories probably more along the lines of the South Beach diet but portion control is the big factor in my routine. That and actively working to lose 5 pounds before the “special occasion” rolls around … like holidays etc. By the time the holidays are over I’m back to my original weight having enjoyed myself without guilt.
TonyC,
“The “Paleo” diet is just another proxy that goes too far, IMO. (For others: The idea is you do not eat anything your paleolithic hunter-gatherer, stone age ancestors did not eat.)”
I stated that there was a doctor who supported the idea, one more isolated doctor. Unclear what the diet is proxy for. ??? I agree it goes too far. Difficult to accomodate: ingredients, not amenable to family use, etc.
==============
“At least for me these fad diets are too unscientific and misleading. For example, our stone age ancestors were also strenuously physically active, I have read estimates (based upon reproducing their lifestyle) they burned three or four times as many calories as the modern person does sitting behind a computer.”
————
I have read studies of bushmen and other anthropological
studies that believe that only 3-4 hours were needed by the women in food search and gathering. The men generally go out once or twice (now) a week to hunt.
No one carries home more than 20 pounds max in a bushman group. The chase technique ACTUALLY used by bushmen entails exhausting the game, not catching up sprint wise.
Neither the women nor men seem to live a highly strenuous life. On the other hand, they eat an average of over 200 DIFFERENT food sources per year. No info on nutrition value. Do we vary our diets?
===========
IMHO, nutrition and exercise are keys to health.
No dieagreement there I presume.
If you eat hominy grits or the italian equivalent as your main source of calories, then you will get pellagra. Pellagra was responsible for 29 percent of the mental patients in the South in the early part of the 20th century. Tha same was true in Italy in the Po river plain.
I did not say that the paleo was a scientifically proven diet. To my knowledge it did not catch on and become a fad.
Welcome with your feedback. I am not trying to prove you wrong, only the other side of the question.
Just to show the importance of exercise. Studies made in Georgia in the 20-30′s show that men who DID have strenuous jobs, did NOT get aterioscleriosis. No heart attacks from the major cause today.
The toughest job before?: lumber stacker, by hand.
@Idealist: By “proxy” I mean it is a simplifying replacement, and a flawed and imperfect one, for what really needs to be done; counting calories and ensuring one gets a diet that supplies sufficient vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats, fiber, and sugars.
That is what I mean, and all the “single rule” fad diets I have seen seem to be the same. Barring allergies, bodies can handle refined sugar and flour, a rule that prohibits them is a bad rule.
In a diet hard-line rules that prohibit certain foods are usually self-defeating, from a psychological point of view, because they create a sense of relentless deprivation that eventually wears down a person’s willpower; then cheating on the diet eventually ends the diet.
The other reason it is an imperfect proxy is because the true diet limits caloric intake over some period (for me a week). Any diet that does not do that may not be a “diet” at all.
As Einstein said, a problem should be made as simple as possible, and no simpler. That is what most fad diets do, in their quest to present something simple that involves no arithmetic, they set unnecessary self-defeating hard lines, and they lose an essential feature of dieting to lose weight: Eating fewer calories than we burn.
I have read different studies of the caloric requirements of paleolithic persons. Running an animal down until it has a heat stroke is far more strenuous than anything I do. Three hours at a jogging pace of 5 mph is 15 miles, one way, in the heat (or the animal doesn’t stroke out).
Pellagra is apparently a vitamin deficiency (niacin) and/or protein deficiency (for lysine). I think all persons should eat proteins and take multi-vitamins, especially those restricted (by choice or medical necessity) to a narrow range of foods.
Hooray for it all.
Except the chase method. Grazing animals will not leave there home territory. The actual distance run is much less than that you give. Many can do it alone if necessary or opportunity presents itself.
But that is a small matter. Let us say they are in better shape and younger than you or I.
The rest is fine, as I knew if would be. You can not follow a diet, but you can introduce better foods.
Right now I got a home made Minestrone cooking. As soon as the egg poaching I’m gonna eat it.
Happy eating.
@Idealist: You can not follow a diet…
I do not know what that means, I have followed a diet for years. So have others I know. I just think that diets that prohibit foods that somebody loves are doomed. My diet is caloric, so I deny myself nothing except over-eating.
I am not aiming to be contrary, but I get the impression you are asserting we agree, and then stating the opposite of what I said.
Not intentionally. I don’t give up, but I have misunderstood, as humans do. what you mean by diet.
If you call caloric restriction a diet, OK. But I don’t. I call it sound living. Just as choosing nutritious food is not a diet in my mind. It is just choosing to use knowledge on various factors.
I did not assert that we agree. That would be speaking for you. Did I? No, I did not. Can you get that straight? I said that what I understood you to say, was fine with me. No more nor less. That is not putting words in your mouth. Now is it?
After people don’t eat for three or four days, they don’t get hungry.
Matt,
I can do it after the second hunger pangs. A good way o lose weight. Not recommended. Leads to shrinkage of stomach, and less food capacity there. Difficult to bread if it becomes a habit. Balanded nutrition is very important if used for loss of weight.
ID707,
Take multivitamin supplements. People usually don’t need as many calories as they consume. It’s estimated that most people gain at least a pound a year throughout their lives. They have a hard time losing it.
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Oh I absolutely hate these crash diets. We as a society in general have this fascination with quick and easy fixes. People seem to not want actual work. However, the irony in this is that working out and eating a balanced diet is actually a lot easier than starving yourself. I mean, exercising 30 minutes a day and eat relatively well or starve yourself throughout the whole day, feeling hungry throughout. Seems like an easy choice to me. These diets are impossible to maintain; you will become malnourished—and sadly in this case, it resulted in the death of a child. Anyway, I wrote about my abhorrance for low calorie diets—hoping I can share it below.
http://fitz101.com/diet-and-food/do-fad-diets-work-the-tough-truth/
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I don’t speak several languages. My fault. I can figure out what you’re saying by using google translate.
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