Look, Comrades, No Lines!: China’s New Leader Announced With The Rise Of The “Red Nobility” Class

We previously discussed how the United States was sharply criticized in a government-supported newspaper in China for the long lines of voters who had to wait for hours to cast their ballots. Now, the happiest place on Earth, has announced its new leader: Xi Jinging. Xi was selected without any lines of citizens, who of course were not allowed to vote at all.

The regular decade transition occurred by an orchestrated vote of the Community Party Congress with his appointment as general secretary after a meeting of senior Communists. The Chinese people were informed of the selection as Xi walked into the Great Hall of the People with other Politburo members.

The rise of Xi to power is viewed as another affirmation of a new “red nobility” class — leaders who come from families with a long communist power pedigree. Xi is the son of a hero of the revolution and three other members have similar family ties. With continuing scandals involving the gathering of huge wealth by Communist leaders, China now fits every definition of an aristocracy using Communist controls to protect its power and wealth. Think of Louis XIV in a Mao jacket.

Source: CBS

189 thoughts on “Look, Comrades, No Lines!: China’s New Leader Announced With The Rise Of The “Red Nobility” Class

  1. Ich mochter ein double zimmer fur ein nach. But not in Peking, or Beigjing or however ya spull it. What was that concept that Jon Kenneth Maynard invented years ago? They (meaning the communists) would get more like us and we more like them. Somebody mentioned that word and that concept on this blog. Or was it Maynard Krebs who inventied that concept?

    Look! There is a crown on his head! King Chung or Chung King.

  2. When I think back to the ravings from all the Maoists I knew in the 60’s, it makes me proud that they always saw me as their enemy and I always saw them as full of Sh*t.

  3. “Sort of like our ruling class only they’re all the size of Kucinich.”


    Did you ever hear of Yao Ming, or his parents. Silly stereotype, just as the stereotype of Italians as greasy is also silly and wrong.

  4. Mike Spindell 1, November 15, 2012 at 10:38 am

    “Sort of like our ruling class only they’re all the size of Kucinich.”


    Did you ever hear of Yao Ming, or his parents. Silly stereotype, just as the stereotype of Italians as greasy is also silly and wrong.
    Or Packer fans as cheesy.

  5. I think nick was making one of his purposely inappropriate remarks just to get everybody’s blood flowing. ;)

    Poor Dennis, always the brunt of short jokes.

  6. Xi is tall. -Swarthmore mom

    “over 6 ft”


    “… Xi is “a big personality”, according to those who have met him. Standing over 6ft tall, he is confident and affable. He boasts a ready smile and a glamorous second wife – the renowned People’s Liberation Army singer Peng Liyuan. He has expressed his fondness for US war movies and, perhaps more surprisingly, praised the edgy independent film-maker Jia Zhangke.”

  7. Blouise, Just tweaking the pc police. As I’ve said, I grew up in an ethnic, blue collar culture. We had dagos, micks, pollacks, frogs, bohunks, krauts, etc. My old man did not allow racial slang in the house. We made fun of each other, engaged in stereotypes and laughed, ate and drank together. And, when you grow up in that culture you also develop a keen sense when someone is just engaging in good natured ballbusting or being hateful. I think you know I was more busting your lady balls about Kucinich, as I’ve done in the past. And we are cool about that.

    Dredd, you get it!

    MikeS and SWM, You don’t, and never will.

  8. nick, The way I look at it is that each ethnic group is allowed to make fun of themselves but not others. You omitted the names that asians, mexicans, blacks and jews were called.

  9. SWM, We just have to disagree w/ that. You just gave one of the pc commandments that I reject. Don’t ever go to a standup comedy show!

  10. nick, I think you can assume that if one is at a comedy anything goes, but using ethnic slurs in the workplace won’t get you too far these days.

  11. bettykath, I did not even like it when I was a child and heard ethnic slurs such as japanese kids being called japs.. I guess they can call me pc but I have always been that way.

  12. “We had dagos, micks, pollacks, frogs, bohunks, krauts, etc. My old man did not allow racial slang in the house. We made fun of each other, engaged in stereotypes and laughed, ate and drank together.”


    i’ll bet you also had “Kikes”, “Sheenies” and “Heebes”. Where I grew up was just as tough and “blue collar”. In school if someone called me a Kike who wasn’t Jewish, I’d hit him. You also left out “Chinks”, “Spics”, “Nigger” and “Coon”. You portray an era of ethnic bliss and blue collar solidarity that only lived in the minds of people who were too much in denial to understand that these weren’t playful words, they were words of derision.

    I’m more than positive that if some non-Italian, who wasn’t a friend called you a “Guinea” you would have had a beef with them. When my father was growing up in Brownsville, in Brooklyn (you may have heard of it), when he went through different ethnic areas he was at risk of being attacked by having his pants pulled down to see if he was circumcised, therefore a “Dirty KiKe”. He was a big man and didn’t take kindly to it.

    I truth, all of my Father’s closest friend when I was growing up were Italian mixed between the Sicilian and Southern variety. Among the men such ethnic slurs were used, but it was understood to be kidding. none of my father’s friends, or he would have dealt kindly with an outsider using those terms.

    Therein lies the problem, which you persistently cavalierly refer to as PC. Ethnic slurs are meant to be hurtful and someone who is sensitive to that doesn’t use them. Maybe that’s why you should have followed this intelligent example: “My old man did not allow racial slang in the house.” I wonder why he felt that way?

  13. Mike S.,

    As you know I respect your opinions….. But sometimes the pc crap can be just as offensive….. We don’t live in iconic caste… If we did then there are other repercussions….. You have learned to suck it up just like I have…. This is a free speech site lest we forget its purpose…. I’m sure you haven’t…. There are some folks here that unless you pimple head em…. You just ain’t one of em….. Or they try and CONTROL you…. Just like with this PC crap….

  14. I like everyone regardless of race…. The people I dislike its for specific reasons…. They are usually elitist snobs that impose their views on others….. And expect them to dance when you speak…..

  15. The way I look at it these people can spout all the hate and disrespect they want, but the rest of us then have the right and obligation to speak up and confront it.

  16. Not really….. I could care less what either you or nick think. It is your right to think it, and it is my right to disagree.

  17. Oh really…. My opinion of you is that you try and comtol….. however, You have violated the basic rule…. You disclosed a personal location…..

  18. The only thoughts I have control over are my own, and that is a relief. That knowledge makes my life much more serene and happy.

  19. That’s the best laugh I’ve had all day…. If you call what you have serene….. You need an updated dictionary….. Cancerous is more the term….

  20. S’Mom,

    Does your elevator go all the way to the top? I have read your comnents and am not sure of your motivation.

  21. Mike Stivic: We’re going to see something you know nothing about: culture.
    [Shows him the art exhibit book]
    Archie Bunker: Oh ho ho, look at this. No wonder he’s getting himself so excited, it’s one of his own here: A Polack art exhibit.
    Mike Stivic: That’s ‘Pollock’. Jackson Pollock. He happens to be a great American artist.
    Archie Bunker: Well he sure paints Polish. Look at this: he splashes and smears the paint over everything here. What do you mean? A monkey could do that. A great American artist? There ain’t a tree or a flag or a president in the whole damn book.
    Mike Stivic: I’d explain it to you, Arch, but first you’d have to move your brain ahead two centuries.
    Archie Bunker: Why don’t you go take a short walk on a long pier?
    Mike Stivic: Ha, you can’t even get that right! It’s take a long walk off a short pier.
    Archie Bunker: Then do that.

  22. Anonymously Yours 1, November 15, 2012 at 2:23 pm


    You’re not being politically correct to PC people….

  23. I believe I’ve previously related a very pertinent, personal, and emotional incident w/ my Colombian son. Growing up in a liberal, but pretty white community my adopted son stuck out. Lot of toe heads here..hell even a dago sticks out. In large part it was a positive. My son has an engaging personality and kids were attracted to his difference. Not all. I received a call from the school when my son was in 6th grade. The school bus driver reported that a few kids were calling my son a spic. I went to the school and the administration was concerned. I got the details first. The principal said they were considering suspending the offendors. I said to the principal something that took him aback. I said if my son were called that in the classroom I would concur. Maybe in the hallways. But, in the playground, on the way to school, etc. I think it’s different. I explained to my son what my dad would say to me. As stated previously, if you grow up in a non pc enviroment, you learn to spot hate. My old man told me, “Nick you have good judgement. Greaseball is almost always hateful. But, understand, for everyone who calls you that to you face, there are many others who say it behind your back. So, at least the one who says it to your face is being honest about what he thinks of you. I’s the ones who smile in your face and say it behind your back you really need to watch” Now..I was about my sons age when he first said it to me. I kinda understood it but it made more sense as I got more mature. The same is true w/ my son. I’ve been working all day. But coming home and reading this thread is quite edifying.

  24. Swarthmore mom
    1, November 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm
    I guess if they can’t beat you they pop under a different name. Business as usual.
    that is the true ‘controller’….if you can’t be beat….you will be beaten….

  25. Nick,

    When it comes to this issue I am on your side….. I won’t let someone get maligned by a PC racist….. If you’re not part of the solution you are the problem…..that’s my opinion….

  26. AY, Thanks. Beside the obvious first amendment issue, my biggest problem is that by suppressing speech you merely drive the feelings underground, and they fester underground. Sunshine is the great disinfectant. AY, I fear comedians are our last line of defense. I assume these pc folks don’t go to comedy shows or abide the non pc you see in movies by very good directors. They must boycott hilarious tv like Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Simpsons, 30 Rock, etc.

  27. society has become overly defensive because of the very real threat of litigation and THAT my well be because of all the Eye-talian Lawyer$ out there….

  28. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: political correctness – no matter what end of the spectrum it comes from – is stupid. “There are no bad words. Bad thoughts, bad intentions, and wooooords.” – George Carlin

  29. Wootsy, What do you get when you cross an Eyetalian and a Pollack? A guy who makes you an offer you can’t understand.

  30. Ok…. It’s called cultural sensitivity now….. I guess rich people living in big houses would take offense at that….. Some think they got culture just because they can buy it…..

  31. nick spinelli
    1, November 15, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    hahahaha!….that was good…..

    Q: What’s the difference between a good lawyer and a bad lawyer?
    A: A bad lawyer makes your case drag on for years. A good lawyer makes it last even longer. :)

  32. A secretary, a paralegal and a partner in a city law firm are walking through a park on their way to lunch when they find an antique oil lamp. They rub it and a Genie comes out in a puff of smoke. The Genie says, “I usually only grant three wishes, so I’ll give each of you just one.”
    “Me first! Me first!” says the secretary. “I want to be in the Bahamas, driving a speedboat, without a care in the world.”
    Poof! She’s gone.
    “Me next! Me next!” says the paralegal. “I want to be in Hawaii, relaxing on the beach with my personal masseuse, an endless supply of pina coladas and the love of my life.”
    Poof! He’s gone.
    “You’re next,” the Genie says to the partner.
    The partner says, “I want those two back in the office after lunch.” :P

  33. oh, dear. I went away and got attacked (indirectly). I fully agree with SM. I see no reason to insult others. I don’t use racial epithets in front of others nor behind their backs. If you tell an inappropriate joke or use a racial epithet in a joke, I just might call you on it. I tend to get called a “wet blanket” but that doesn’t hurt nearly as much as keeping my mouth shut. Even Joe Paterno apologized for his inappropriate locker room humor. I didn’t say anything, I just didn’t laugh. Maybe it was the ball busting look that got him.

  34. Woodsy,

    You sly one you….. I though they was funny….. Hey what do you call 25 attorneys jumping out of a plane…… Skeet…..

    How do you know when you have four baptists gathered together…. You always have a 5th…..

    It’s so sad when people set out to polarize ….. They call this progress…. Maybe they ought to get real and take jobs in congress…..

  35. First Amendment or no I was taught from a very early age (before attending school) not to make fun of others- that covered racial/ethnic (and later sexist) nicknames and epithets once I learned to recognize them. Srsly, what ever happened to ‘home training’. I’ll defend your right to say it but damn, didn’t y’all have no home training?

    BTW, home training included the phrase, oft used, “If your friends jump off a cliff are you going to do it too?” That applies to enemies also.

  36. Could “Blazing Saddles”, a movie that was written by a black man and a Jew, directed by said Jew and starring a black man and a Jew, a movie that insults damn near everyone, get made today since the advent of political correctness?

    Probably not.

    It is, however, one of the funniest movies ever made.

    Humor is a rough game – wear protective gear – but it is egalitarian. Do you know what kind of people say “You can’t make fun of me?” Fanatics and authoritarians like the Saudis and Al-Qaeda and the Royal Family of Thailand and the Chinese Communist Party. I don’t like nick. Even a bit. I don’t think his joke was very good on a technical level (the exaggeration and the contrast was off).

    But I’ll certainly defend his right to make it.

    The butt of the joke was Denis Kucinich despite the fact the exaggeration nick used was of a factually wrong ethnic stereotype. That stereotype is ignorant, but the Chinese were not the butt of the joke for it, ergo it was at most a simply mildly tasteless joke but not overtly racist.

    I’ll say it again: political correctness is stupid. It’s a knee-jerk reaction, a Pavlovian response devoid of analytics. I’m not saying don’t call out racism. Call out racism when and where you see it by all means, but just make sure it’s actual racism first instead of just off-color or poorly constructed humor. Let me illustrate with an actual racist joke compared to what nick said.

    “What do you call a nigger hitchhiker?

    That is a racist joke. The butt of the joke is the black man and he is the butt of the joke because of his color.

    “Sort of like our ruling class only they’re all the size of Kucinich.”

    The butt of this joke is Kucinich (and the government overall to a lesser degree) because he is short – which nick chose (poorly) a stereotype of the Chinese to illustrate.

    Big difference.

    Believe it or not, humor has rules of construction just like other forms of writing does. Being bad at it doesn’t make the joker a racist. It means they suck at writing jokes or they write jokes you personally don’t find funny. That is not a crime or unethical in any way. If it were, Russell Brand would a wanted man. As it is, I really wish he’d go away especially after the mauling he gave the classic film “Arthur”, but I digress.

    Now might I suggest that if anyone is offended by this?

    Lighten up. You’re all going to die. Have a chuckle where you can find it. If you don’t like a joke? Don’t laugh at it, but don’t use a reflex reaction to find racism where it may not be. That’s just . . . silly.

  37. Blazing Saddles, never did watch the whole thing. Just enough to know I had better things to do, like watch the grass grow.

  38. Actually, the country would be better off id Blazing Saddles was re-released now considering the racist, ethnic and sexist hatred that has bubbled out of its cauldron and overtaken the Republican Party wholesale. It might have a palliative effect if nothing else. But that’s humor of a specific kind and Brooks is a genius at using it. Your joke actually didn’t measure up IMO because less racist language could have been used to convey the same cultural truth. Most jokes using racist, ethnic and sexist language don’t measure up because they reveal no truth, only meanness and hatred, the words are just a road sign to point the underlying hatred at a particular group. Dice Clay thought he was funny and so did a lot of people but he was no Brooks or Steinberg. He was just mean.

    My objection has been the casual, water-cooler and school yard language that is just considered by some to be a part of the rough and tumble discourse in a country that has many ethnic and racial subdivisions. I think it should always be called out and discouraged for the unfair and de-humanizing speech it is. If the media (and the opposition) had jumped on and stayed on the Republican candidates, surrogates and supporters for the racism and sexism they preached, from day one, perhaps many in that camp wouldn’t be doubling down on it even now. Perhaps the moderates in that party (or at least the non-haters) would have a better chance of changing that party from within.

  39. Nick,

    He’s your son not mine. If it was my kid I would have acted differently. When I was 16 my Spanish teacher slapped me in the face in class. I was too shocked to react. I told my Father that night and he, six foot two with size 14 shoes and hands to match, came to my High School. He walked in demanded to see the Principal immediately. Went into the man’s office and said in his powerful voice “Is corporal punishment accepted as the rule in your school and if it isn’t why did Mr. Batjaka slap my son in the face and what are you going to do about it? The teacher and I were called into the office. He wound up having to apologize to me and the again in front of the class.

    The teacher retaliated later on by giving me “F’s” in the course and throwing me out of class for the final three weeks before finals. In NYState the have standardized tests called Regents Exams given in specific classes upon completion of a cycle. That year was the Regents exam for Spanish III. I got a 93 on that exam, 3rd best in the class and the teacher was forced to give me a B.

    Kids tried to bully me in school and in my view many of my teachers and the school administration were also bullies. I was ever the rebel and refused to kiss ass. I am quite thankful that my Father backed me and I would do the same for my kid. His support gave me the backbone to begin to trust myself and discover my own power. I love my Father’s memory for his support. He also taught me to understand the evils of prejudice and to always fight it.

    Now some and you say that you’re just saying things to get a reaction and maybe that is true. If so I hope that my disagreement with you on this gives you the amusement you seek. I personally don’t find it funny or appealing, even as you try to clothe it as normal, wholesome banter. I also don’t find sexist joking as either funny or appealing.

    One last thing, which I know from my own experience growing up. The trip to school and time on the schoolyard can be hell for some kids.
    It was mostly hell for me. Certain behavior needs to be modeled for children let them know where lines are crossed. I’m always for free speech,
    censorship is the banning of it, but a lecture about it being bad behavior is quite appropriate in an academic setting.

  40. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but unless you’d care to revise the 1st Amendment to read “and all humor must reveal truth”? It’s not going to work. Freedom of speech – but especially speech others may not like – is constrained under very narrow circumstances for a reason and the Framers made it the 1st Amendment for a reason: being able to express unpopular ideas is critical in being able to speak truth where it matters most – to power.

    And they should re-release “Blazing Saddles”. It’s hard to find on a movie channel where the PC police haven’t butchered it. In its original form, as you point to, it is a truly amazing bit of palliative humor.

    If your object is you think I’m mean? Ask me if I care. A failure to grasp or appreciate ironic or sardonic humor – such as telling an Italian being accused of racism in a joke that “all this fuss [was] because a dago can’t make a good joke” – is not my problem. Read Carlin’s words again. “There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and wooooords.” You may not like that idea but it has the merit of being truthful. Comedy is not always pretty, but you are under no obligation to laugh and you still don’t have a right not to be offended under the 1st Amendment. In fact, the 1st Amendment is pretty much a corollary guaranteeing that you will at some time be offended. And that? Is ultimately the hypocrisy of politically correct speech. Limiting speech is limiting speech and unless you’ve got a really good narrowly tailored reason for doing so – like defamation and incitement laws – trying to tailor an exclusion around something so subjective as “offense”? Is no better than trying to institute blasphemy laws and just as counter to the function of the 1st Amendment.

  41. Nick,

    Also, you confuse calling you out on your bad behavior with limiting your right to behave badly. No one is saying that you can’t use your stupid, bigoted jokes here. I’m just saying that you’re a schmuck for doing it. I’m just utilizing my right of free speech.

  42. And to echo Mike and emphasize my point that while I defend your right to say it, I thought your original joke did indeed suck, nick. It missed being actually racist by the thinnest of constructional margins.

  43. Gene, I did not say you were mean, I said certain kinds of speech could be and was mean, and implied that couching it as humor did not make it less so. LOL, You’re just twitched because I said that your joke missed the mark.

    As I said originally: ” I’ll defend your right to say it but damn, didn’t y’all have no home training?” That’s my take on it in one sentence. Seriously, if people were brought up to simply have decent manners no kid would have to be called a name on a school bus (repeatedly) and people wouldn’t feel comfortable carrying a sign with the President as a witch-doctor (which speaks to race on several ugly levels). The candidates were wrong to not call that out, right then and there, and parents that don’t push the issue do a disservice to their kid and the kids doing the name calling.

    I reiterate: “I’ll defend your right to say it but damn ….” Condemnation is not infringement but silence sends the wrong message. I think the counter demonstrations to people and groups like the WBC serve a positive and needed function. The measure of the society isn’t WBC, it’s that there are counter-protests.

  44. Mike S wrote:

    “and the teacher was forced to give me a B.”
    B for Brave.

    When I was in middle school there existed a culture of hacking students with wooden boards and sticks for their misbehavior. This did not happen in grade school and it lasted until I was in Jr. High when it was no longer done. I didn’t get into trouble much in school but I told my parents I wouldn’t allow myself to be hacked and I was going to run home if threatened with it.

    It seemed at least weekly an affair where some student would get whacked so hard you could actually hear the sound echoing in the halls. One student was injured when the teacher missed and hit him in the back. An almost macabre humor and schadenfreude existed among the students when another was led to the bathroom to receive his hacking: everybody whispered out “shhhh” to allow the quietest setting to experience the loudest hack; to which all would gasp in horror or laughter. Later in life I found the entire thing to be a bit revolting.

    I joined the sheriff’s office as a cadet when I was 16. I began to see how unjust this hacking experience from 3 or or four years prior was compared to what I saw in arrests. When criminals assaulted others with a weapon. (which meant anything that was used to injure another person or cause pain) the suspect was charged with Assault 3rd which was a C felony. Yet, school officials routinely hit students with instruments that could be construed as weapons and that was the way it was. We were not allowed to hit citizens with nightsticks for misbehavior but teachers were with wooden boards and sticks. And, it was done to smaller persons who’s bodies were more vulnerable.

    A few years later, after I received my commission, I was dispatched to a report of a man beating his son with a 2×4. After I arrived and invistigated I found the board used and it was about the same as the hacking boards used by teachers mentioned previously. The boy was 15 and his dad hit him probably a dozen times and caused severe bruising to his backside and the backs of his legs and back. He even had a defensive wound on his arm. I hooked dad up for felony assault. The incident started because the son was sent home from school for fighting and dad went ballistic on him. The son went to the hospital.

    Afterwards I kept trying to grapple with this idea of hitting children with clubs and boards. I came to the conclusion that hitting children with these created a mindset that violence against children under the color of punishment led to repeated generations of this where some people experience hackings as children and proceeded later in life to hack their own children. I felt it had to stop. Admittedly I am on the fence when it comes to a harmless spanking, but causing pain and injury is wrong. Again, a society is measured by how well it treats its most vulnerable.

  45. Darren, Your observation that the school got away with acts that would otherwise be called crimes was very perceptive. (Your middle school sucked!) The reality that there are different standards or laws for people without power and people under color of authority seems to be dawning on people thanks to the ubiquity of cell phone cameras and to a good extent, blawgs.

  46. ahhhh, intention…..you can say anything to friends, with their permission.
    Sometimes nothing changes…..sometimes, it’s what you do that counts….

  47. lottakatz
    1, November 16, 2012 at 5:27 am
    Darren, Your observation that the school got away with acts that would otherwise be called crimes was very perceptive. (Your middle school sucked!) The reality that there are different standards or laws for people without power and people under color of authority seems to be dawning on people thanks to the ubiquity of cell phone cameras and to a good extent, blawgs.
    there are not just different laws, there are different consequences. But I disagree that the cell phones etc are what is bringing this to light…..this has never been a secret….the thing that is needing brought to light is how and why such a non-secret could go on for so long, un-addressed by those whose power and position exist to prevent or ameliorate it, and have the consequences born by the very ones who were harmed to begin with…..
    so far the hows nd whys are nothing but sh*t.

  48. Woosty=^..^
    You’re right that the knowledge has not been secret but I think that previously the knowledge was shared by members of the classes victimized most often by this separate set of rules and consequences. Now it’s out there for anyone to see that has a computer and the time to surf. What used to be news or events or scandals limited to a small group of knowledgeable people is now the viral story of the day. The internet has been a great boon to dissemination information to a wide audience. While the MSM still denigrates the internet and blawgers they sure do end up doing a lot of stories that started on the internet.

  49. “School days, school days
    Dear old Golden Rule days
    ‘Reading and ‘riting and ‘rithmetic
    Taught to the tune of the hick’ry stick”

    “School Days”, written 1907″


    Though the song was written in 1907, it reflected a long history of corporal punishment in schools. It is ironic that during my growing up that song was presented as a pleasantly nostalgic look back on childhood, when to me it represented a very bad tradition. Corporal punishment.is a humiliating lesson to be learned.

    My beloved Father used it on me occasionally by slapping me in the face and as I previously described he was a big, strong man. He never did it after I was eight and what he replaced it with was far worse to me and yet far more effective in parenting. That was the voice of his disapproval of some action of mine along with the look of disappointment in his eyes.

    When I became a parent, with memory of being slapped, I never at any time used corporal punishment, but didn’t hesitate to set tougher boundaries then most of the parents of my children’s peers. Along with those boundaries though, was respect for my children’s thoughts and feelings. My children were allowed to rebel as long as their safety in that rebellion wasn’t an issue and I never talked down to them. Other parents constantly complemented my wife and I on how well behaved our children were. They are now two grown women, loved by their friends, respected in their careers and filled with compassion and the desire to help others. I’m quite proud of them.

    Incidentally, the best 8 years of my 37 year career with NYC were spent in the then “Special Services for Children”. This was because I felt a great sense of mission in combating child abuse and neglect. I sent some people to jail for their bad behavior and worked closely with the police and with the DA’s office. While I was quite tough in that role, I always followed civil liberties guidelines and evidence-based case handling.

    As has always been, many see that there is violence in the teen years. Other than pathology, I’ve always felt that violence to children, begets anger and violence as they age. Violence is not necessarily physical in nature. It can be represented by slurs of many kinds and their effect on a growing child’s psyche.

  50. Mike, Words, even hurtful, are not the same as physical harm. Your shared hurt was about physical harm..different topic. I’m sorry for your pain as a youth. Few escape ridicule, It’s those who were taught to stand up for themselves who overcome it. My old man taught me that and I have passed it on to my son. The world is at is. The vast majority of people are good. Being a positive person I always remember that. Being a practical person I know laws, pc rules, cultural sensitivity don’t mean shit out on the street. Words fly around. There is a subtlety to ethnic ballbusts. It’s the word itself sometimes. Using Italian, “dago” and “wop” are usually ok, “greaseball” is not. The Latinos where I grew up were Puerto Rican. I was a ballplayer so obviously I got to know them well, spend nights in their home, eat their food, etc. “PR” and “Rican” were ok, “spic” was not. We called the pointy shoes they wore in the 60’s “PR Fence Climbers”, they knew when that was cool and when it wasn’t. But, besides the words Mike, it’s the the tone of the words and the nonverbal clues. As stated previously, when you’re in a multi ethnic enviroment you get those skills quickly. I’m not a bigot, and if you would climb down off that high horse you would see that. If we met, you would see that. If you saw the wide diversity of friends I have, if you saw my wedding photos, you would know that. Life’s short and tentative, you should know that bette than anyone. There are MUCH worse things out there than a Chinese, Kucinich joke. That’s not even a small potato, it’s more a windmill.

    Wootsy, That bar scene in Good Will Hunting is classic. As I said previously in another thread, some who spout off here would be much more temperate in a bar, or they would stop going.

  51. Like I said previously SWM, comdedians are our last lines of defense to the word/thought pc police. You just helped prove my point. Good luck getting comedians on board, they’ll cut you down like a heckler.

  52. Blazing Saddles was a classic, but it would be remiss not to mention Airplane[“I speak jive”] and Bad Santa to that list.

    There’s a sleeper good movie that was just out called Seven Psychopaths that is very funny, well made[sort of a Coen Bros. genre] and very non pc.

  53. LK,

    “You’re just twitched because I said that your joke missed the mark.”

    Not in the slightest. I write. People like some of it, people don’t like some of it. Those who like it? Great. Those who don’t? Not my problem. Or to quote Groucho, “Well, Art is Art, isn’t it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know.”

    What I’m “twitched” about is the idea that the 1st Amendment only applies to speech if the PC brigade approves of it. And using your definitions of manners (or anyone else’s) falls into that realm. Much like laws, “manners” are a socially aggregate defined behavior. No one person has a final say in what constitutes manners and hiding what it is behind the word “manners” when what it is is defining offense for others is again and again offense is a subjective judgement is simply moving one idea of censorship behind another idea of censorship.

    PC language is stupid and not only is it stupid it’s insidious. You can’t say one thing today because it might offend someone. What will the topic or word you can’t use tomorrow be? Male? Female? Reproduction? Rights? PC language is inherently antithetical to free speech. It’s also the creeping edge of oppression.

    “Can’t talk about the King! It’s offensive. They club you for that.”

    That’s what I’m “twitched” about.

    But I don’t give a damn if you liked the joke or not.

    Just to be clear.

  54. “Widespread use of the term politically correct and its derivatives began when it was adopted as a pejorative term by the political right in the 1990s, in the context of the Culture Wars.” wikipedia

  55. Bron , Yes, the words p.c. are used by the right wing against us everyday. Look at what is happening in those public schools, They have turned a whole generation against the republicans with that p.c. talk. ;)

  56. A pejorative is sometimes a pejorative because the idea it encapsulates is a crap idea. Very often an extremist crap idea, like “Communist” or “laissez-faire capitalist”. Bron, of all people and good for him, points to the problem with PC language. It’s a form of left wing authoritarianism. Authoritarianism isn’t the sole province of the right wing. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the motivation behind PC speech is irrelevant. Oppression is oppression. Censorship is a form of oppression. Oppressing speech is rarely – and I mean rarely as in the already dealt with exceptions of defamation and incitement – in the interest of the public. The solution to “offensive” free speech is the same as it is for all free speech issues: more free speech, not censorship. nick isn’t the only one around here who seems to be missing the full implications of a free speech zone. It comes at a cost. Part of the cost for that freedom is you will be offended at some point. How hard you are to offend is subjective.

  57. Guess what you guys. We are not going back to the 1950’s. You have lost this battle. Cultural sensitivity is even being taught in the medical schools. Carry on.

  58. Guess what? You’re full of crap in appealing to emotion.

    Cultural sensitivity isn’t the same idea as politically correct. One is teaching others to empathize and modify their behavior accordingly. The other is censorship. Got that? Teaching empathy over teaching “you can’t say that”. One is a good thing, the other is a bad thing. The value of free speech should not be impaired because of someone’s feelings, Mullah Smom.

    And if you find that offensive?

    I suggest you re-read the 1st Amendment and the jurisprudence surrounding it.

    No one’s feelings are protected by law.

  59. I well understand ‘The Esprit de Macho” and have many locker room exchanges (in and outside) with my buddies that are rude and offensive when taken out of context.
    However I also have heard and been disgusted by verbal exchanges of very low level speakers that are sincere and ignorance filled by denigrating and abusive language. I think most here can tell the difference.
    I have chosen in my personal growth to simply avoid low level “comedic” remarks, It works for me, and as I have become further removed from this biting style of humor, I find myself more sure of my decision not to participate in such humor.
    Just sayin, ….. not judging.

  60. Gene H, Another 1950’s argument – women are “emotional”. They are too “emotional” to get the job or the promotion.

  61. David,

    What you skirt is something that anyone writing comedy knows to be true: low humor is actually harder to write effectively than high humor and it is precisely because of that subjective component of offense. Look at Don Rickles as contrasted to Dice Clay. Both are essentially insult comics which is a form common but not exclusive to low humor. Both are capable of crafting jokes, they both understand the basic dynamics. But Rickles gets away with stuff Clay could never get away with because Rickles is far and away the better craftsman.

  62. Smom,

    Appealing to emotion – “Oh noes! Not the bad old days!” – is an appeal to emotion. Your gender has nothing to do with the logical fallacy. You making a poor argument has nothing to do with your gender. It has everything to do with making a bad argument based in an appeal to emotion. This is a bad argumentation habit that knows no sexual boundary. If you think it does? Then you think wrong.

  63. “I have chosen in my personal growth to simply avoid low level “comedic” remarks, It works for me, and as I have become further removed from this biting style of humor, I find myself more sure of my decision not to participate in such humor.
    Just sayin, ….. not judging.” (David Blauw)

    I like you … and … as I remarked to pete a bit ago, you have a wickedly cool wit … so:

    What David Blauw said

  64. Must you prove that you have nothing to add as to substantive rebuttal and contribute nothing but snark with every comment you make and on every thread upon which you comment, My Lil’ Drive By Troll?

    Again, if any of this offends you? Too bad. Your feelings aren’t protected by law.

  65. Bron
    1, November 16, 2012 at 11:30 am
    manners are the lubricant of social intercourse.
    someone better get the rape kit, quick!

  66. they teach cultural sensitivity in medical school? Oh great.

    Why do they need to teach that? I learned when I was in 2nd grade that if you called the Italian kid a dago, he kicked your a$$ after school. A smart kid would figure the Chinese, Poles, Jews and other groups would kick your a$$ if you made fun of them as well.

    What kind of morons are we sending to medical school or more to the point why arent more second graders getting their a$$es kicked after school?

    most probably because of political correctness.

    Gene is right about free speech, you can never have too much. Free speech is limited in authoritarian regimes across the political spectrum.

    And paying attention to ethnic sensitivities is tribalism writ large.

    Can you say Balkanization of the US? Texas and the other states arent going to have to secede, it will occur naturally and with much bloodshed.

    All a doctor has to do is to ask a patient from another country if there are any religious or cultural values he needs to be mindful of. Let the patient tell you him/herself. Trying to second guess is paternalism. But then that goes along with pc very well.

  67. Bringing in a First amendment argument here is launching a false equivalency. The reason being that I and others who called Nick out on his weak attempts at humor were exercising our First Amendments rights.
    There was nothing in what I, or they, wrote that implied he should be censored here, or any place else, so please enlighten me on how his right to boorishness has been abridged and/or trampled? I personally dislike that kind of humor and have always found it offensive and in poor taste. I would never censor either Rickles, or Dice Clay, but I wouldn’t pay to see them either. Nick is a victim of……….what?

  68. I love it when people have to use qualifiers when they agree w/ me. And David Blauw hit on the key point. If you find those words offensive, DON’T USE THEM. However, you have no right to try and STOP me from using them. SWM, isn’t that the good argument vis a vis abortion? If you don’t believe it’s right then don’t have one, but don’t try and stop me from having one.

    And, I was wrong w/ my Chinese joke, it’s the Japs and Gooks that are the shorter people, they all look alike. That’s tongue in cheek pc police. When a good boxer sees a cut above the eye of their opponent, they keep hammering @ it.

    Blouise, Many people don’t realize this but my favorite pol of late, Russ Feingold, is not much taller than Kucinich. However, Feingold has not seen UFO’s.

  69. Mike, I am not a victim of ANYTHING. Why do people have to look upon this as crime and victim?? I don’t like it when I’m called “douche” “monkey and organ grinder”, “STFU”, etc. I don’t seek compensation or sympathy. I merely point out I don’t use those terms towards others here, and I think it’s chickenshit to say something that I’m quite certain wouldn’t be said to me in person. I never write or say anything that I would not say to a person’s face. It’s a good rule to live by. You have a right to say whatever you want and I have a right to tell you to go shit in your hat. You can complain about what I said and I can give it back. All that goes vice versa also.

  70. Bron, The other three groups would hire the dago to kick your ass. The Chinaman would pay a fair price, The Jew would haggle for days to get the best price, and the Pollack would hire the dago to kick his ass.

  71. nick,

    Now you are disparaging Dennis and leetle green men. ;)

    BTW … as you came right out and said … you were originally dipping my pigtails in the inkwell but I, being the superior ball buster, left you swinging in the wind.

    I am now prepared to accept your accolades! Don’t mess with the well-built. :cool:

  72. Mike,

    The issue of politically correct speech is inherently entangled in the argument of free speech under the 1st Amendment ergo it’s not a false equivalence but a one to one equivalence because the issue is censorship of language. The whole issue of political correctness came into play the instant “control” was mentioned. Now did I say that you, Mike, were trying to censor nick? No. I did not. You were critical, but not censoring and you were quite specific about that in defending his right to say what he said even in disapproving of what he said (which is similar to others comments, including mine). As we both know, no one’s ideas are free from challenge. No one is saying you were wrong to challenge nick about the content of his “joke”. Quite the opposite actually. However, control is another issue. Once the PC ball was up into play, others ran with it (even under misnomers) and the consensus argument was that PC was a good thing. That it was brought in the context of a third party personal feud is irrelevant to the topic of PC versus free speech being relevant to the conversation as a whole. It is that idea of PC as a good thing I take exception to and argue against. Where is the line between PC and criticism? Censorship. Did I say nick was a victim? No, I did not. He was not censored, he was criticized. I said PC speech is stupid once control was introduced and why it is stupid which – in a nutshell – is it’s antithetical to free speech. One contention is not linked directly to the other. nick is a victim of his own poor joke writing skills more than anything else. But the subjects are related.

  73. “However, you have no right to try and STOP me from using them.”


    Seriously, whose stopping you? you’ve certainly made comment after comment using them. You really can’t differentiate between criticism and censorship?

  74. Gene,

    Consistently, we’ve seen JT run stories of thought police trying to limit free speech and consistently you and I have opposed that. No one here in their remarks tried to censor Nick and that is why I deem it a false equivalency. A problem that I’ve noticed when you’ve been around here as long as you and I, is my assumption that everyone understands where I am on an issue. It ain’t necessarily so I’ve found. I generally like Nick, while disagreeing with him on much, but he does annoy me when he intentionally provokes and when he does I’ll call him out on it. Nick plays a more sophisticated version of “let’s rile up dem libruls”.

  75. AP,

    You seriously should consider another pseudonym. When Blouise mentioned AP, AP, my first thought was contacting the Apple Store for a download, then I realized she was referring to you. What about Anonymously Commented……..AC………….Oh snap, then I’d confuse it with electricity. It’s hard being a literal, liberal. :)

  76. Mike,

    “No one here in their remarks tried to censor Nick and that is why I deem it a false equivalency. A problem that I’ve noticed when you’ve been around here as long as you and I, is my assumption that everyone understands where I am on an issue. It ain’t necessarily so I’ve found.”

    Hence the importance of making the distinction between criticism and censorship once again. It would have been a false equivalence had I argued nick was being censored. That was never my contention. My contention came into play when others starting promoting PC language as a virtue which created an opening for pointing out the both the deficiency of the idea of PC speech and illustrating the difference between censorship and criticism. I understand your technical quibble, I just don’t agree with it and on the grounds stated, namely that my argument isn’t about nick directly. It’s about PC language and the nature of control.

  77. You seriously should consider another pseudonym. When Blouise mentioned AP, AP, my first thought was contacting the Apple Store for a download, then I realized she was referring to you. What about Anonymously Commented……..AC………….Oh snap, then I’d confuse it with electricity. -Mike S.

    lol, Mike S.

    Thought I’d tried out AP/AC, but it’s looks a lot like AIPAC… AA for always anonymous (though one is never really “anonymous”), but I don’t want to be confused with “AA”… Anyway, thanks for the laugh.

  78. If you used AC/DC you’d run the risk of being mistaken for Angus Young or someone who at least likes to wear shorts and suspenders in public. ;)

  79. Gene, We’ve had this discussion previously. I informed you would only call me a douche once and you told me you were scrappy..let’s not keep having the same converstion because it’s probably moot. But, it is a small world.

    Mike, I also rile up “dem conservatives too.” I like to rile up all kinds of folks when I see them getting full of themselves, something none of us are immune to. That’s why I constantly rile up Gene, he is really full of himself. The guys who get their balls busted the most in a dugout or locker room are the ones who think their shit doesn’t stink. Did you notice I didn’t use any Jew slangs. It’s obviously something that hurts you and that is NEVER my intent. So, being a gentleman, I decided to forego that.

  80. The Italians spread it so well. Sophia Lauren, Gina Lollobrigida.

    I think I saw above that Swarthmore Mom is worried about going back to the 50’s, I can see why. :)

  81. nick spinelli
    1, November 16, 2012 at 4:43 pm
    Blouise, That’s not Deputy Dawg, who is he? “Pigtails in the inkwell” you must be older than dirt!


    That is most certainly Deputy Dawg. Tomorrow I will be celebrating my birthday and according to this little test wherein I scored 100%, I am indeed Older Than Dirt:


    How many do you remember? Start counting…..

    1. Blackjack chewing gum

    2. Wax Coke-shaped bottles with colored
    sugar water

    3. Candy cigarettes

    4. Soda pop machines that dispensed

    5. Coffee shops with tableside

    6. Home milk delivery in glass bottles
    with cardboard stoppers

    7. Party lines

    8. Newsreels before the movie

    9. P. F. Flyers

    10. Butch wax

    11. Telephone numbers with a word
    prefix (Olive-6933)

    12. Peashooters

    13. Howdy Doody

    14. 45 RPM records

    15. S&H Green Stamps

    16. Hi-fi’s

    17. Metal ice trays with levers

    18. Mimeograph paper

    19. Blue flashbulbs

    20. Beanie and Cecil

    21. Roller skate keys

    22. Cork popguns

    23. Drive-ins

    24. Studebakers

    25. Wash tub wringers

    If you remembered 0-5 = You’re still young
    If you remembered 6-10 = You are getting older
    If you remembered 11-15 = Don’t tell your age
    If you remembered 16-25 = You’re older than dirt

  82. Great stuff….. Thanks to all…..

    Just saw the TV show “Last Man Standing”…… It was based on racial PC….. It was funny….. Tim Allen and the black counter part pulled it off very well….. I know I thought it was funny…..

  83. Blouise, I’m older than dirt too! Happy Birthday, girl. I would sponsor an adult beverage if I were in Cleveland.

  84. OS,

    I have one of those mounted on my dining room wall … complete with magneto (heavy thing that took some real skill to mount)

  85. Vince Treacy 1, February 16, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    AY, the acronym “J.A.P” is highly offensive to many, including me.

  86. You’re probably not gonna get much mileage here….. Tonight at least…..

    Did you see last man standing….. I laughed really hard….. Not as much as now…….

  87. Raff,

    You saw the Andy Griffith show certainly…..Sara the operator….. Or was the real operator Otis….. Just joking there…..

  88. Wow, I’m only in my mid 40’s and I remember 23 out of 25. I must be from a backwater.

    I remember the vacuum tube test machines at Safeway. You could bring in an old radio/tv tube, test it, and if it didn’t work you could buy a new one in the cabinet below.

    Everything was anti-PC back then it seemed by comparison. I used to walk from grade school to the mom & pop store that was in someone’s remodeled garage a block away. Candy cigarettes was a favorite. They had names that were mockeries of the brand name. Later, they came out with an even more cool (or Kool) version. It was a thicker one that you could blow white powder out of like you were really smoking it. Later, we had Big League Chew. Gum that was marketed like chewing tobacco.

    Blackjack gum was one of the more innocent pursuits I guess.

    When we were teenagers, almost none of us smoked, but probably a quarter of the guys chewed Copenhagen. If you smoked, you were considered a stoner, but if you chewed, you were more of a cowboy type which was what was considered cool.

    Funny how things were perceived.

  89. Strangely, as I was typing my above post, I looked over and saw a bag of Cracker Jack on the kitchen counter. I have family over at the house and someone must have bought one. What happened to the box? Guess it’s been a long time since I had some. Of course they’re all gone now. Doesn’t seem right without the box though.

    The box regulated how fast a person devours the cracker jacks. The box had a small opening on the side to ration out a few bits. This new bag tears easily affording a wider port to put your hand in and grab a load of cracker jacks; which seems to speed up consumption.

    The nutrition label lists the bag as having three servings. Laughable. It should be measured in number of seconds the bag will last in the hands of a middle aged Generation X’er.

    Time to go hide the empty bag.

  90. Raff,

    I recall lassie as well….. But…. forthe life of me i dont recall a phone….Recall watching it at the grandparents house on Sundays….. Black and White Stechel Carlson….. Tubed TV…. Ah yes…. June Lockheart….. The future mom on Lost in Space…..

  91. I remember docs making house calls. When the Asian flu hit in the 50’s the Spinelli house was like a TB ward. Our great Dr. Becker came about 4 times to check on us.

    Mike, blackjack gum was around in your day, maybe just not a NYC thing. It was an acquired taste which I happened to like. The secondary advanatage was many dudes wouldn’t bum a piece off of you when you had blackjack because they hated it.

  92. Mike,

    Blackjack was licorice flavored and right up there with anise hard candy in popularity. It was a love it or hate it chew.

    One of the grandkids always makes the trip to a specialty candy store and I fully expect to unwrap a few packs of blackjack today along with a bag of blackjack taffy.

  93. “The students were allowed to choose their own incentive to meet the reading goal, but instead of a reward, the class chose a punishment: Students who failed to meet the goal could either stay inside at recess until it was met, or have their faces written on by classmates who met the goals.”


    While I love kids and believed they should be allowed reasonable autonomy, as I practiced with my own, they are still far to immature to not be properly guided. This teacher in effect let the inmates run the asylum. One of the things that I learned from my own childhood is that many children have the capacity to be thoughtlessly cruel. The stigmatization done by this could potentially last a lifetime of one feeling not good enough. All of my studying of the human condition is that people learn best from positive reinforcement, rather than negative derision.

  94. “Mike, blackjack gum was around in your day, maybe just not a NYC thing.”


    I think you’re right about it being a NYC thing, because I was a gum chewer.
    Bazooka, or Wrigley’s Spearmint. As for Doctors making house calls my family Physician in Queens Dr. Cohen made house calls as late as 1969 and he was a full service Doctor. When I broke a leg at six, he came to the house, set up the means for me to be brought to his office, X-Rayed the break and put it into a cast. This grateful six year old, who broke his leg at 5:00pm was back in my bed, sandbags around my cast, by 10:00pm. What a great man and a great Doctor

  95. Blouise,

    I’m one of those crazy people who hates the taste of Licorice, perhaps that’s why it made o impression on me, even if it was around in NYC.

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