In Wisconsin, another case of alleged religion-based abuse is being investigated after 11-year-old girl Madeline (“Kara”) Neumann died of untreated diabetes as her parents prayed for divine intervention. The last time Kara had reportedly been to a doctor was at age three. Notably, this follows just days after the death of 15-month old Ava Worthington in Oregon in a case that will test one of the new faith healing laws.
The parents, Leilani and Dale Neumann, believe that healing comes from God but insist that they did not know she was that close to death and, according to Dale, started CPR “as soon as the breath of life left” his daughter’s body.
That would appear a bit too late since experts say that Kara must have been sick for at least 30 days.
She died from diabetic ketoacidosis due to a fatal lack of insulin in her body.
The couple has three other children and Dale insisted “We believe the word of God and live according to its precepts.”
Leilani added: “Our lives are in God’s hands and whatever we go through we are just going to trust him. We need healing. We are going through the healing process.”
Other parents have been charged criminally in such cases, but here the parents insist that they would have taken Kara to a doctor if they knew how sick she was. However, there still seems a some question of abuse given the eight years without seeing a doctor and the failure to notice a child dying for 30 days.
The Oregon case will be interesting to watch. 15-month old Ava Worthington died March 2 from from bacterial bronchial pneumonia and infection — a death that could have been easily avoided with antibiotics. In 1999, Oregon eliminated its controversial “spiritual-healing defense” in cases of second-degree manslaughter, first- and second-degree criminal mistreatment and nonpayment of child support. For the full story, click here
For the full story, click here.
Deeply:
I am beginning to reconsider my faint praise of niblet. I really think we need to have more of him. His posts remind me of why the pretty girls in high school always seem to have plain friends. They look so good by comparison–as do our posts. Have a good evening.
Well hi Susan!
Glad to see someone is still up and about.
I don’t know why his nibs is not addressing the issue. I think he uses the thread topics generally as platforms for his patented Turley attacks and Obama assaults (not to mention KO and his “hottie” mentions). Who can say what is going on in his noggin?
I’m glad to see he’s back though. I was beginning to experience Liberal Guilt in the thought I might have been complicit in his feeling unwelcome here.
Gee, its kind a quiet around here tonight!
Hellooooo? Helloooooooo? Anybody hoooome?
Place is as empty as a Mensa meeting in the Republican House Caucus!
Well, just to stir up trouble, I will repost a wondrous thing I wrote last night but posted too late to get all the attention it deserved. I know it will offend both Patty C AND Niblet. That counts for something! Anyway, here goes:
“I am in a dangerous mood tonight. An old employee who I had to let go years ago, had the temerity to write me requesting a recommendation letter! This irritates me.
So to pitbull fanciers: [this was a pitbull thread]
A questionaire for you.
Do you drive an
(a) Subaru, or
(b) Hummer or other SUV, F-series truck etc.
Do you vote
(a) Democrat, or
(b) Republican
Do you approve of
(a) strict regulation on gun ownership, or
(b) unlimited and unregulated gun ownership
When one of your friends tells a sexist or racist joke, do you
(a) squirm inwardly and remain silent, or
(b) compete with the rest of the guys in laughing loudly
Do you get your information from
(a) books written by academics, or
(b) talk radio
The biggest tragedy of the last year was when,
(a) you missed an issue of the Nation, or
(b) your meth lab blew up.
The second biggest tragedy of the last year was when,
(a) your daughter’s soccer team lost the city finals, or
(b) someone stole the spinner wheels off your Honda VorTec.
Your second pet is,
(a) A cat named “Mr Slinkster”, or
(b) A boa constrictor you feed live hamsters to
Do you blame pitbull regulations on
(a) actuarial statistics on pitbull attacks, or
(b) “Elitest” liberal snobs.
scoring: 1-2 “a” answers: you’ve got a point. I will listen to your arguments. 3-9 “a” answers: you mistook the breed: its probably a black lab. 1-2 “b” answers: I don’t want to argue with you, you’ll probably sic’ your pitbull on me if you lose; 3-9 “b” answers, tell us about the 50 cal. machine gun that you got at the gun show.”
Maybe that will stir up things.
Or maybe not.
Elitist snob DW
I’m just wondering why “Niblet” has such difficulty addressing the topic of this column, which was that over-religious parents let their daughter die because they refused to get her the medical treatment she needed. A decision I definitely do NOT agree with, and I also think some criminal charges apply in this case.
Patty C,
Delphic.
DW
From the sky:
Foo! Foo!
So Michelle thinks America is ignorant? Does that include all of you, or just regular America and not the elitists….like her, like her husband, like you all, like….well, you get the drift.
Regular America is much more brighter than the dimmest bulb that has been pandering to Mr. Turley here, a person born, out of pure chance, with a good brain but has yet to put it to good use.
How stupid was this speech? I guess the legal eagles here are tongue tied……:
“We don’t like being pushed outside of our comfort zones. You know it right here on this campus. You know people sitting at different tables- you all living in different dorms. I was there. You’re not talking to each other, taking advantage that you’re in this diverse community. Because sometimes it’s easier to hold on to your own stereotypes and misconceptions.
It makes you feel justified in your own ignorance.
That’s America. So the challenge for us is are we ready for change?”
Michelle Obama
“Note to self: work in “rumspringa” at your earliest opportunity.”
Maybe that’s it – a backyard trampoline with a safety net..?!
The penalty for treason? Oh, I know this one! The medal of freedom!
Niblet:
This is hardly an original observation, but Communism is nothing but a secular religion. Anytime somebody thinks God (or History) is on his side, you have a recipe for terrible mischief. Part of the genius of Liberalism lies in its scepticism concerning political truth & the tolerance this scepticism engenders.
By the way, I’m not about to give Communism or any other brand of Utopianism a first chance, let alone a second. Good old Liberal meliorism works a lot better.
So far as the Saddam financed trip is concerned, it will be interesting to see if this terror indictment collapses as so many others have. Even if it holds up, I don’t see that the Congressmen did or said anything traitorous. Their participation was unwitting & what they said was simply true: Saddam wasn’t stockpiling nuclear weapons & some sort of diplomatic solution would certainly be better than the mess Bush & Co. got us into.
WASHINGTON — Saddam Hussein’s intelligence agency secretly financed a trip to Iraq for three U.S. lawmakers during the run-up to the U.S.-led invasion, federal prosecutors said Wednesday.
An indictment unsealed in Detroit accuses Muthanna Al-Hanooti, a member of a Michigan nonprofit group, of arranging for three members of Congress to travel to Iraq in October 2002 at the behest of Saddam’s regime. Prosecutors say Iraqi intelligence officials paid for the trip through an intermediary.
The lawmakers are not named in the indictment but the dates correspond to a trip by Democratic Reps. Jim McDermott of Washington, David Bonior of Michigan and Mike Thompson of California. None was charged and Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd said investigators “have no information whatsoever” any of them knew the trip was underwritten by Saddam.
“Obviously we didn’t know it at the time,” McDermott spokesman Michael DeCesare said Wednesday. “The trip was to see the plight of the Iraqi children. That’s the only reason we went.”
During the trip, the lawmakers expressed skepticism about the Bush administration’s claims that Saddam was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction.
“War is not the answer,” Bonior, who is no longer in Congress, said at a news conference while on the trip. “There is a way to resolve this.”
For you legal eagles; isn’t being a traitor a crime??? What is the punishment…….?
We don’t like being pushed outside of our comfort zones. You know it right here on this campus. You know people sitting at different tables- you all living in different dorms. I was there. You’re not talking to each other, taking advantage that you’re in this diverse community. Because sometimes it’s easier to hold on to your own stereotypes and misconceptions.
It makes you feel justified in your own ignorance.
That’s America. So the challenge for us is are we ready for change?
Michelle Obama
Communism has been responsible for over 100 million deaths in less than 100 years. Religion is only responsible for 5 million deaths in over 2,500 years.
I am sure you liberal elitests think Communism deserves a second chance.
I think everyone has made excellent points. I understand that some medical treatments are so dangerous that a parent may choose not to subject their child to them (not the case here). But these parents didn’t even bother checking into medical options. They just let their child die.
Children really do need to have real information, to hear from competing worldviews, so that they can make their own choices as adults. I’ve gone to antiwar meetings where children are brought along for their “edification”. They don’t want to be there. I don’t think children should be “edified”. Of course force-edifying your child is not anywhere near refusing medical care but there is a common underlying principal in both cases. That priciple should be challenged. Children are not chattel.
I think that children’s rights are one of the next frontiers of social liberation. May it come soon.
Note to self: work in “rumspringa” at your earliest opportunity.
An interesting and informative site for church/state issues:
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/
Faith is fine, but when a child–obviously unable to make her own decisions about health care–needs treatment, you get the kid treatment.
The Amish, of all people, have a great system, where they don’t really consider their children to be members of the faith until they reach an age where they can experience the world (called “rumspringa”) and make the decision about their faith freely on their own. And they have an unbelievably high retention rate to show for it.
The faith doesn’t suffer because children see doctors. The faith suffers when children are needlessly lost to treatable illness.
Believing as I do that tolerance keeps the world civil, I do respect the other’s person’s faith in all manner of foolishness (IMHO), but I do draw the line here. What manner of thinking permits you to risk your child’s life out of respect for some first century dogma. With all due deference, these are not Biblical times and failing to get your Type 1 diabetic daughter proper care is much worse than criminal. It is willful ignorance and dereliction of your paramount duty as a parent. I can neither understand nor forgive that transgression. I guess that makes me an “Old Testament” guy when it comes to this situation.
There is no question how sick she is. I was diagnosed with diabetes with similar conditions and was barely eating and sleeping for 20 hours some days.