The respected Massachusetts-based group Physicians for Human Rights has published a report finding that 11 former detainees showed clear signed of torture in medical examinations following their release from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and Afghanistan.. The detainees were released for lack of evidence of terrorism.
The 121-page report details evidence of torture, including beatings, electric shock, sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation, sodomy and scores of other abuses. Retired U.S. Major Gen. Antonio Taguba, who led the Army’s investigation into the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal in 2003, wrote the foreword to the report and stated “There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account.”
The record on the American torture program is now comprehensive and unavoidable, including the recent disclosure that the Administration began work on the torture program long before any inquiry from the field, here — a direct contradiction of earlier statements from the Administration.
Despite the fact that interrogators and officials now admit to using torture, here, Congress continues to feign interest while withholding any substantive action against those who ordered a torture program.
For the full story, click here.
What is most striking is that these men were released for lack of evidence of terrorism. A recent study showed that the Administration continued to hold men for years after it became clear that they were innocent, here.
Here’s the lead from an article I read in the Post yesterday and germane to our subject:
“The two-star general who led an Army investigation into the horrific detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib has accused the Bush administration of war crimes and is calling for accountability.
In his 2004 report on Abu Ghraib, then-Major General Anthony Taguba concluded that “numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees.” He called the abuse “systemic and illegal.” And, as Seymour M. Hersh reported in the New Yorker, he was rewarded for his honesty by being forced into retirement. ”
That massive flock of chickens you see overhead is tracking to the Potomac, and here’s the cite to the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/06/18/BL2008061801546.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Jake:
Just a little correction on the economy during the Clinton years. While no President can take full credit or blame for an economy, the following facts are true:
1. In the 8 years of the Clinton Presidency economic growth averaged 4.0 percent per year, compared to average growth of 2.8 percent during the Reagan-Bush years. The economy grew for 116 consecutive months, the most in history.
2. The economy created more than 22.5 million jobs in less than eight years—the most jobs ever created under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous 12 years. Of the total new jobs, 20.7 million, or 92 percent, are in the private sector.
That’s prosperity by any measure, and coupled with mostly peace abroad, stands in stark contrast to today’s environment.
Jake:
I like fiery debate, just with less heat and more light. I agree the Repubs have made some progress and their emphasis on national defense will find few detractors. The issue isn’t goals, it’s means. No one has all the answers. Right now, my side looks like its getting a chance to perform. We’ll see what happens.
mespo727272,
Not to worry. I consider this a friendly debate. I understand the need to have at least 2 sides for balance. Do you?
As for power. What have the Democrats done since 2006? Have they proposed any changes worth proposing? This is government. So to blame the Republicans for all the failures between 1994-2006, then you must give them credit for all the successes. Right?? Boy the economy was great during Clinton’s first 7 years. Good thing for the Republican domination and control.
Bob, Esq.,
Jake:
“I never said that I cared?”
Question your own words often?
My reply: What words????? Please site your source.
FastMoving Cloud:
I think you did just fine and likely inspired us both to get involved. As for larger issues, we lawyers think about them all the time, despite what you read in the press.
Mespo and Bob, Esq.,
You have restored my faith in the abiltiy of the American public to think about larger issues of Constitutional protections and the rule of law. I could not believe the willful ignorance that I came across in the comments section yesterday, especially given the great and learned legal mind of your host. The two of you have eloquently stated everything that I wanted to but, obviously, failed to get across. Thank you.
Bob, Esq:
I’m sure the good Pennsylvania Justice did too.
rafflaw,
Again you missed my point. Everything right up to torture is fair game. The gray area is defining that line.
Your shepherd Al Gore (this is only one of many articles):
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=a_convenient_lie&ns=JohnStossel&dt=07/05/2006&page=full&comments=true
Your other shepherd Michael Moore (again, this is only one of many articles):
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:KfAWCHfwexoJ:www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm+michael+moore+9/11+lies&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Your comment:
“When 9/11 happened on George W’s watch, Clinton was blamed by the right so we are used to it. The 9/11 commission did point out things that Clinton should have done, but when the first attack on the Trade center happened, the Clinton administration found the guy responsible(the Blind Sheik) and put him through the justice system and convicted him without torture and without stripping him of constitutional guarantees.”
My reply: So you’re saying Democrats are just like Republicans? Blame the other guy. Guess we are very similar in many ways. Hurts doesn’t it. I’ll stop calling people Liberal and just call them Neolib….since that isn’t name calling.
Also, there are differences with the first attack and second. Most of the people we have rounded up were in the “war zone” and not US soil. They are enemy combatants and not just someone arrested in the US.
Mespo,
“It’s from an opinion in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in a case I read in law school. I forgot the cite.”
That’s O.K.; I heard it borrowed from Shakespeare.
Jake:
“I never said that I cared?”
Question your own words often?
“Some of these guys in this forum believe that a terrorist that is willing to walk into a crowded market and detonate a bomb, should have rights. The only rights that they should have are 40 virgins, in a male prison.”
Unfortunately Jake, your methods & ideals aid and abet the first and foremost enemy of the constitution.
I find your lack of fealty greatly disturbing.
http://www.76house.com/history_tavern.html
jake:
Calm down. Personal animus is the mark of a losing advocate too. Let’s see now, I made an accurate description of your political views, which you find offensive despite its neutral denotation, and you resort to such edifying words as “hypocrit,” and “Hitler, and then imply obsequiousness on the part of me and rafflaw by referring to us as needing shepherds and being “followers.” I can assure you liberals are no such thing, and most of us have held our views long before Gore and Moore, but it is a peculiar trapping of conservatism that its adherents believe that the world of political thought began the day they were born and everyone else is simply wrong. Liberals, if you must use the label of the intellectually lazy, have as much claim to the credit for the founding of this Republic as conservatives, and given the conservatives fondness for authoritarianism, probably more credit is due the liberals. No sane person can argue this Country is not in a mess of the conservatives own making, especially in view of their domination of all branches of government from 1994 -2006. Take your medicine like a man, and just get it through your mind that your crowd has had its chance, utterly failed, and now must come hat-in- hand to the “liberals” to fix your mess. We’re up to the task. We’ve won WW2, forced us out of that hell hole in ‘Nam, and insured the rights of most Americans through law and social change–all that in just the last 70 years. You dinosaurs can come back around in 30 years or so and divide the Nation again on such “crucial” issues as school prayer, abortion, flag burning, gay marriage and on and on, once we have things in order. Inept conservative whining about liberals always reminds me of the famous comment about Winston Churchill before WW2: “…all it took was one big scare and we were on our knees to Winston Churchill.” Today all it takes is one across-the-board disaster of a President, and the Nation looks again to the liberal adults to reign in the conservative kids who just want to play “cowboys and indians” with our foreign policy,and “Monopoly” with our economy. Talk to me again in 2009, and we’ll see if your dire predictions come to pass, or if, like most of your brethren, you’ll slink back into the woodwork awaiting the next chance to rise and criticize. There is one thing that may provide you some hope. Many people, as they intellectually mature, become more liberal in their outlook–certainly the most educated do and hence Bush & the neo-con’s appeal to those with the least education. Maybe with a little intellectual elbow grease, time is on your side.
Jake,
It is interesting that you consider being labeled a neocon as “namecalling” but labeling someone Liberal is not? You claim that Al Gore and Michael Moore are “propaganda whores”, but provide us no evidence of their “half truths” as you call it. By the way, torture is not a gray area. We have prosecuted Japanese, German and American soldiers for torture. Was it a grey area then? One last comment. When 9/11 happened on George W’s watch, Clinton was blamed by the right so we are used to it. The 9/11 commission did point out things that Clinton should have done, but when the first attack on the Trade center happened, the Clinton administration found the guy responsible(the Blind Sheik) and put him through the justice system and convicted him without torture and without stripping him of constitutional guarantees.
http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Toptenlies.htm
Enlighten yourselves…….
Bob, Esq.,
I never said that I cared? Some of these guys in this forum believe that a terrorist that is willing to walk into a crowded market and detonate a bomb, should have rights. The only rights that they should have are 40 virgins, in a male prison.
mespo727272 & rafflaw,
“Believe me the guy calling names is always losing the argument as is evident here. And the use of euphemisms to mask torture is positively Bushonian.”
My reply: You have called me a neocon a few times. So who is name calling, hypocrite. Let me ask you this, do you actually believe that “everything” that you believe is correct or right? I’m getting that impression, Hitler.
Also, I am not masking torture. Aggressive interrogation techniques lead right up to torture. That is why this is such a gray area.
“Don’t waste any more time on these neocons.”
“One of the Jakes is obviously a right wing plant.”
My reply: Can a conservative have a strong opinion and voice it in the same forum as a liberal? Why am a right wing plant?? What are you? Sounds like paranoia to me. Oh yeah, paranoia is alive and well on the left.
“They don’t bother with facts and just try to keep yelling stop the terrorist any way that you can. ”
My reply: We should stop the terrorist any way we can. AS for facts, let me see, liberals “follow” Al Gore and Michael Moore like they are righteous Gods. They are only propaganda whores making a profit. Using half truths to fit their agenda. Who needs enemies when you have shepherds to lead the liberal blind. So what are you talking about?
“One more thing, you may want to read the 9/11 commission report to actually find out about George W. sitting on his hands and ignoring the threats.”
My reply: And what did it say about Bill Clinton? If his balls were not in Monica’s hands, he may have stopped the 9/11 attack well before it ever happened. But I’m sure when a Democrat is in office and a terrorist attack happens, you wing nuts will blame it on Bush. How convenient.
Bob,Esq:
It’s from an opinion in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in a case I read in law school. I forgot the cite.
Jake,
You never told us why you’re so eager to have ‘the terrorists’ like you.
Please regale us.
Mespo:
“Why try to teach a pig to sing, it’s impossible and annoys the pig.”
I’ve used a similar quote for almost twenty years, and the only source I have is my former college roommate meandering around the dorm drunk off his a$$. It was his response to the RA when he told us to be quiet.
And Jake,
Vincent Bugliosi: “Personally, I have no animus for Democrats or Republicans. But my contempt for the right-wing of the Republican party has no boundaries. The right wing of the Republican Party, of course, is the group that always likes to loudly proclaim its patriotism. But if they had a patriotic bone in their body, which they do not, then, for example, they would want the president of the United States, even though he’s a Democrat, to do well. Why? Because if the president does well, the entire country does well. But they only want the country to do well if one of their own people is in office. If not, they’ll do everything to destroy the president, whether he’s Clinton or any other Democrat.
…
“I should add that those whom I find particularly nauseating and disgusting are the many liberals in the media who cater to the far right-and therefore, aid and abet their cause-while quietly detesting them. These physiological marvels are somehow able to sit and stand erect in front of a camera without a spine.”