Over the years, various lawsuits have been filed against movie makers for the alleged influence that their films had on kids who acted out stunts or acts of violence. They have been entirely rejected, but there may be one more on the way. Eric Tavulares, 18, strangled his 18 year-old childhood girlfriend, Lauren Aljubouri.
According to police reports, Tavulares had watched the film 10 to 20 times previously. They had watched only half of the film when they went to bed: “He stated he does not recall exactly what happened next, but something caused him to switch mentally and he rolled over on Lauren Aljubouri and he began strangling her.”
Natural Born Killers, a 1994 film directed by Oliver Stone and depicting a bizarre crime spree, has been the focus of prior lawsuits in Louisiana and Oklahoma and other states.
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Jill,
I knew I should have waited for you to say something.
That should be “Did you go and see any of the plays of Le Théâtre de l’Absurde?”
Interestingly, I believe it was in the 50’s that Congress held hearings on Comic Books, claiming they would make children violent in the same way we speak of video games today. I am going to have to hunt for this info but it might have been on “On the Media”. What struck me is the fears were phrased almost exactly the same that time as now.
This society has violence as one of its bedrocks. If you want to be subversive in this culture, being more violent isn’t it. Delight, wonder and playfulness are very subversive. Guess which things a lot of religions/secular entertainment don’t encourage!
Bartlebee
How does me saying that entertainment isn’t more violent equate to me saying entertainment is less violent? My hound doesn’t have more feet then my neighbor’s cat. Does it follow that he has less feet? It turns out that words have exact meanings and the meaning of “not more” isn’t less.
The gladiator example was because it was the form of entertainment from that general era I thought most people would be familiar with. If you want different examples: how about Oedipus Rex, Antigone, or The Golden Ass…
You might win an argument about T.V. getting more violent. But my position is about entertainment in general. That’s why I used word entertainment (there’s that stupid exact meaning thing again) and gave examples of things that weren’t T.V. Entertainment includes sports, games, music, books, movies, plays, dances, social gatherings, etc. That’s a lot of stuff that’s not T.V.
Do you remember all the plays, games, sports from 1955-1968? Do you have memory of every single time you got together with your buddies? What was going on in the jazz community? What pieces were written by classical composers? Country music? Folk? Blues? Did you go and see So would you say that you “don’t really remember or know about a large percentage of the entertainment?”
Those of us who were old enough to remember, who were there, know what television was like.
Kids today think they know, but they don’t.
Movies, television. It was all tame. Very, very tame.
Now, its anything goes.
The bloodier, the more grusomely realistic, the better.
You know what movie was considered “RATED X” in 1966 USA?
You’ll never guess.
😀
“The Blue Max”.
😀
See, told you you’d never guess.
Thats right, the Blue Max, with George Peppard and Ursala Andress was considered due to a very little bit of sex by todays standards, and some violence that showed bright red halloween looking fake blood, to be too “hard core” for an “R” rating.
So they gave it an “X”.
I had to wait for several years to see that one.
Trust me, when Efram Zimbalist Junior pulled his gun and fired, it was like watching a cheesy police training video.
It was NOTHING like watching Arnold chop the arm off of a terrorist before shoving him into a wood chipper.
And we NEVER would have seen sh$t like that in 1966 or 68, America.
So I’m sorry, but your premise is untenable.
Television has become MUCH MORE violent than it EVER was when I was a young man, and if you were old enough, you’d know that too.
Gyges
1, July 23, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Bartlebee,
My point wasn’t ancient humans were more or less violent (they might have been, but their entertainment wasn’t
——
It would have been clearer if you hadn’t already said this;
——
Gyges
1, July 23, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I’m not sure our entertainment is getting more violent. We’re not going to see gladiator fights, where real people died
Also if your assertation weren’t based apparently on “quantity”, rather than acknowledging the actual “quality”.
The absurd notion that I “remember” television differently, given that I don’t NEED to “REMEMBER IT”, as I can “WATCH IT” anytime I want, is just that. Absurd.
Movies used to be and look far less graphic and realistic than they do now, particualrly with regards to violence. Gunsmoke was probably the most violent show we had growing up, and even in gunsmoke, you don’t see any blood.
Just a bang.
A puff a smoke.
And a guy grabs his chest.
So if you want to indicate that people see MORE of it, like you said, then thats fine.
But don’t forget to include the QUALITY along with the QUANTITY.
Because what I see today on “CSI Crime” and “Law and Order” and about a billion shows like that, ain’t even CLOSE to what television was like in 1969 USA.
And if you think it was, then clearly you were not around in 1969.
Or were in diapers.
Its called syndication.
Bartlebee,
My point wasn’t ancient humans were more or less violent (they might have been, but their entertainment wasn’t). My point was that humans being humans we’ll tend to be entertained by the same things. However I think that the level of exposer has increased to almost a constant roar.
I watch a lot of movies. I would say the “History of Violence” has just about the same number of deaths in it as “Nosferatu” There is a discrepancy in how vividly the violence is shown, but I think that’s more of an issue as to style than anything else. But how often did children watch movies in 1929 Verses 2006? You could go across the board and most forms of entertainment you can think of the same idea would hold true. It’s not the quality, it’s the quantity.
I think that you’re suffering from a variation of The Good Old Days Syndrome. You don’t remember entertainment as being this violent before because we tend to filter out all the background noise from our memory. Unless you’re different then most people I know, you don’t really remember or know about a large percentage of the entertainment of what ever period you think it was less violent in.
In fact, now we have “WAR TV”.
From the comfort of your armchair, watch as our holy christian crusaders root out and slaughter the dark skinned infidels in the sands of the middle east.
😀
Action figures sold seperately.
And yes, we do have gladiator fights on television.
Its called “EXTREME FIGHTING”, and “ULTIMATE FIGHTING”, where people do get seriously injured, not to mention boxing, kickboxing, XFL football, etc, and death can occur, and this stuffs on MY television, every night.
😐
You must not get cable.
Course I do see your point. That is, that ancient man was more brutal than us.
Thats kind of a given.
😐
MY point however, is that modern man, is rapidly returning to his ancient roots.
Gyges
1, July 23, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I’m not sure our entertainment is getting more violent. We’re not going to see gladiator fights, where real people died
Well since I’m talking about television and the movies, and I’m fairly confident that Rome didn’t have television yet… then its kind of a moot point.
😐
Less of course you factor in that Star Trek episode where they were on that planet where they had the gladiators.
Bartlebee,
I’m not sure our entertainment is getting more violent. We’re not going to see gladiator fights, where real people died. Public executions are also off the table in most of the world. Let us not forget about how gory most of the original versions of Fairy tales were. Have you ever sat through Rigoletto? I think the problem may be that kid’s are getting a larger quantity of exposer to the entertainment.
A bit off topic, I always liked Zappa’s take on the music’s influence on people:
There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we’d all love one another.
The facts are, that already know that we are influenced by what we see on tv and the movies, even if we are unwilling to admit it to ourselves.
There is no shortage of studies done, proving the relationship to violent reaction following viewing violence on television or the silver screen. We KNOW this. We’ve known it for decades. Theres more than ample data to demonstrate it. Violence breeds violence, and watching images of violence, played out in graphic detail, over and over, literally “burns” the lessons of that violence, into our brains.
Its not some “mystical” relationship to some elusive higher thought processes, as some like to pretend so as to more easily dismiss the relationship.
It’s much more simple than that. Simple bio-chemical reactions in the brain. Its how we learn.
By the time the average grade schooler has reached Junior High school, he has witnesed more than 8000 murders, played out before his eyes on television.
EIGHT THOUSAND MURDERS.
And that doesn’t include the random acts of violence portrayed that do not culiminate with the death of the victim.
So to see, this level of violence, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and ov….
😐
…and to not conclude that it will have no impact on the behavior of the viewer, is to just kid ourselves.
Suing the movie makers is not viable, because no ones going to step on free speech that way.
We need a better approach, and I’m not sure what it will entail, but we need to find one.
Because the fact is, movies are becoming more grisly, violent and downright sinister in their offerings, and if we do not find a way to, as a nation, raise the level of humanity in our story telling, we’re going to find our young people, more and more, turning to violent solutions to their problems, or even just idiotic acts of wanton murder, to mimic what they saw on the screen.
I am shocked that Dundar actually suggested a lawsuit! I am not a big fan of the idea that TV or a movie can “cause” some one to kill another human being. That being said, this teenager had to already be showing signs of his stupidity or his inclination to kill another human being. I wonder if there is any evidence of him doing harm to animals prior to this murder.
dundar:
I told you before that really is an interesting idea. I don’t know if anyone would “wake up” but it would probably reduce the level of gratuitous violence much like product liability litigation has reduced safety risks to the public. I am sure you remember the Corvair and Dalkon Shield. Why not a “Natural Born Killers” case? You really are becoming quite progressive. See the blog has had a good influence on you.
I hope they sue the producers, the actors, & everybody connected with this movie for $100 million.
Maybe then Obamawood, oops, I mean Hollywood, will wake up.
Incredible, and some still say we’re far removed from “monkey see, monkey do.