The good people of Elyria, Ohio are in an uproar with the appearance of a school poster featuring a “Gay Jesus.” The poster was the work of a student atheist group at Lorain County Community College and the students are now facing allegations of violating school prohibitions of insulting a religious faith.
I can actually claim the distinction of visiting Elyria repeatedly as lead counsel in the espionage case of Petty Office Danny King, who returned to Elyria after we won the case. Nice town. Nice people. But it appears that this poster has caused something of an uproar over freedom of speech versus respect for the religion of others.
The poster was made as part of Club Awareness Week, along with many other displays advertising student-run extracurricular organizations. If they weren’t before, people are certainly aware of the atheist club now. Activists for Atheism at LCCC have been swamped with complaints and notified that the poster violates a rather sweeping school policy: “Harassing any person(s) verbally, in writing, by graphic illustration, or physically, including any abuse, defamatory comments, signs or signals intended to mock or ridicule race, religion, age, sex, color, disability, sexual orientation, or national or ethnic origin” is not allowed.
That is a remarkably broad prohibition, particularly in an academic setting where students are supposed to engage in free and passionate debates.
The poster is referencing a passage of the so-called Secret Gospel of Mark — found inscribed in a letter by Greek historian Clement of Alexandria. One section suggests that after Jesus resurrected a man from the dead, he had an intimate relationship with him.
The controversial passages falls between verses 34 and 35 of Mark 10:
And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, ‘Son of David, have mercy on me.’ But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her into the garden where the tomb was, and straightway a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going near Jesus rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.
It is viewed as entirely false and outrageous by many Christians. In the meantime, the school will have to decide whether such debates are part of the academic experience or should be banned as offensive to religious sensibilities. I tend to favor free speech and leave the merits to such debates to the students and faculty to hash out.
For the full story, click here.
Josh
1, August 26, 2008 at 4:05 pm
PERFECT POINT and still wrong. That’s where the argument lies. Atheism is indeed not founded on untenable positions. There’s the problem
No Josh, theres YOUR problem.
For something to be tenable, you have to be able to demonstrate it.
So feel free, to prove to me, and everyone here, that there is no god.
When you can prove that, you’ll have a tenable position.
If however you cannot produce proof that a god or gods do not exist, then you are left with an UNTENABLE POSITION.
CroMM,
If I don’t believe in a god because the idea of a god has never occurred to me, what does that make me if not an atheist? I’m not an agnostic, because I don’t think that there’s no way to know if there’s a god. I’m not a theist because I don’t believe in a god. It seems to me that the motivation for not believing in a god is moot.
So since we don’t know if the belief in a god has been around as long as all of humanity, we remain unsure as to which came first, atheism or theism. Entomology is no clue because the English language was formed by theists, so is going to be biased to their reality.
As for the “ridiculous chicken before the egg argument” that my cackling friend, was YOUR argument.
Here, allow me to repost your words for you, since you cannot seem to remember what YOU say from minute to minute.
Josh
1, August 26, 2008 at 3:45 pm
And there is no evidence that belief in a god came before disbelief.
See Josh?
YOU professed the mind numbingly dense statement, that A-THESIM did not come before THEISM.
I corrected this ridiculous uneducated remark, by pointing out that without THEISM, there is no A-THEISM.
So yes, it was a RIDICULOUS argument.
“YOUR” ridiculous argument.
I did not debate you as to whether it was a belief system. It clearly is. I take issue with the untenable part.
However I must be off, really. Maybe later tonight?
Josh
1, August 26, 2008 at 4:06 pm
How on earth I was supposed to get that point out of the rediculous chicken and egg argument is beyond me
Yea, how on earth you were supposed to get that point, even though I spelled it out in plain English in those same words several dozen times, is beyond all of us.
😐
We obviously cannot expect you to read what’s in front of your face, now can we?
And, now that we came to the point of this whole thing, I have to go to work. Oh well.
That you want to digress, and take the point to where you think it’s easier for you to debate, is also not in doubt.
Or that you choose to ignore the fact that several people in here, some professing to be A-THEISTS, have been debating with me whether or not A-THEISM is a BELIEF SYSTEM.
Since you have dismissed them, and acknowledged that A-THEISM is a BELIEF SYSTEM, we are past square one.
Now, if you like, we can discuss the second portion of my position, in that they are both UNTENABLE BELIEF SYSTEMS.
Those are, and have been my ONLY POINTS, since this began last night.
Irregardless of all the strawdogs along the way.
How on earth I was supposed to get that point out of the rediculous chicken and egg argument is beyond me.
PERFECT POINT and still wrong. That’s where the argument lies. Atheism is indeed not founded on untenable positions. There’s the problem.
That you “don’t understand” the point Josh, is not in doubt.
Even though I’ve spelled it out for you in as plain and simple English as possible, more than a dozen times and several dozen last night.
The “point” Josh, is and has been the same all along.
MY POSITION, is that A-THEISM is like THEISM.
BOTH BELIEF SYSTEMS.
BOTH FOUNDED ON UNTENABLE POSITIONS.
THATS MY POSITION which I have repeatedly posted for you, and others.
Try to twist it if you want, but I’ll bring you back on course, everytime.
Still don’t understand the point though and how it applies at all.
Logical fallacy sir. The word must have necissarily come second, but the thing itself does not.
Wow, keyboard acting up. Meant to say that assuming you were correct, and disbelief in bacteria came first. What of it?
A-THEISM, can only exist POST THEISM.
Not PRE-THEISM.
If there is no THEISM, there is no A-THESIM.
😐
You guys must be really smart, huh?
What an amazing display.
Ok guys, I’ll bite.
Please show me the BELIEF SYSTEM, that existed PRIOR to the discovery BACTERIA, that declared BACTERIA does not exist.
😐
A-BACTERIANISM if you will.
I’ll be waiting for that one.
That aside assuming it to be true that people disbellievedthing they didn’t er eisted, what is the point?
Not true, ignorance of bacteria came first, not disbelief.
Oh, I understand. I can’t use words that mean the same thing as you clearly intended i.e. “provoke” and I can’t use words you clearly used i.e. “offensive”. Ok then, lets argue the crux of your position, which is what now?
CroMM,
For most of history people didn’t believe in bacteria. Therefore disbelief in bacteria came before belief.
Here, here’s Josh’s idea of how A-THEISM came about.
A-THEIST “there is no god”
NON A-THEIST “what’s a god?”
😀