One of the most famous clinical studies in psychology was Yale University professor Stanley Milgram’s work, published in 1963, on the willingness of people to inflict excruciating pain on others. The new test shows that 70% of people were willing to increase the voltage for an actor who pretended to be screaming in pain from electric shocks.
The “Milgram test” was a shocker not just the recipients. It seemed to confirm a natural willingness — even a desire — to inflict high levels of pain. As the world debates the Bush torture program, the study comes at an important time. It was long presumed that a torture program would be harder to order in western countries like the United States given the cultural and moral objections to the practice. The Bush Administration proved that it had no difficulty in finding torturers or ordering waterboarding. Indeed, Cheney casually confirmed his ordering of torture recently on television.
The new study by American Psychology showed the same results as Milgram. “Some volunteers even carried on giving 450-volt shocks even when there was no further response from the actor, suggesting he was either unconscious or dead.”
I will be giving the annual Weiss lecture in 2009 to the American Psychological Association and Foundation in Toronto and will be discussing this subject.
For the full story, click here.
Patty C,
That link to the earlier legal discussion here was excellent and the date was before I found this site. Thanks.
I look forward to these same legal scholars pursuing the obvious and numerous ‘crimes’ of the Bush Administration after Obama takes office. I say this not as a vindictive Democrat seeking ‘blood’, but rather, as a registered Republican who seeks justice; first as a citizen who treasures our U.S. Constitution, and secondly as a conservative who wants others to know that Bush does not speak for many Republicans such as I represent.
FFLEO, for your reading pleasure…
Check out:
JT’s blog post /2008/04/02/torture-memo-released-yoo-argues-self-defense-in-cases-of-interrogation-deathes-or-injuries/
and
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/10/95033/2181/104/493151
‘Signed By Bush, ALLOWING TORTURE, Memo Shows Bush NOT ‘Insulated’
Here’s the central point:
As detailed in the recent ABC News story on how top White House officials in the National Security Council discussed specific details of torture, the Bush Administration torture policy was determined by the NSC.
What ABC didn’t mention is that Bush is the head of the National Security Counsel and the 2002 NSC decision memo in question, shown at the bottom of this post, signed by George W. Bush, establishes that Bush was in 2002 indeed doing his job as acting head and final decision maker of the National Security Council.
An April 11 AP News study claims Bush was “insulated” from the torture decision making process but existing documents, such as showcased in this post, rebut that claim and indicate Bush was in the torture loop, the top “decider”…’
FFLEO, for your reading pleasure
http://jonathanturley.org/2008/04/02/
from JT’s: torture-memo-released-yoo-argues-self-defense-in-cases-of-interrogation-deathes-or-injuries/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/10/95033/2181/104/493151
‘ Signed By Bush, ALLOWING TORTURE, Memo Shows Bush NOT ‘Insulated’
Here’s the central point:
As detailed in the recent ABC News story on how top White House officials in the National Security Council discussed specific details of torture, the Bush Administration torture policy was determined by the NSC.
What ABC didn’t mention is that Bush is the head of the National Security Counsel and the 2002 NSC decision memo in question, shown at the bottom of this post, signed by George W. Bush, establishes that Bush was in 2002 indeed doing his job as acting head and final decision maker of the National Security Council.
An April 11 AP News study claims Bush was “insulated” from the torture decision making process but existing documents, such as showcased in this post, rebut that claim and indicate Bush was in the torture loop, the top “decider”…’
Once again, Jill, your ‘News’ is old…
JT and I covered this back in April-long before Cohn.
You could have been quoting me, because I have been
particularly vocal on this point! Thanks…
That is ridiculous rafflaw, and you’re right we should laugh. Next time anyone buys crack they can just say, I was getting higher, on purpose! (Anyway, I think that’s Mukasey’s “logic”.)
JT, more background. I don’t think the Hollywood version is coming out any time soon, however.
Don’t miss PZ’s ’08 TED Conference lecture…
http://www.lucifereffect.com/movie.htm
About the Movie
Currently, the only authorized full-length film on the Stanford Prison Experiment is Quiet Rage (to watch the trailer, click on the image to the right). Recently, however, Maverick Films has contracted to make a feature-length movie based on the experiment. Stanford University has granted permission to use the school’s name and image, contingent upon the final script conveying the facts and events as they actually happened.
The director and co-script writer (along with Tim Talbott) is Christopher McQuarrie, Oscar winner for his remarkable script of The Usual Suspects.
The producers are Christopher McQuarrie, Brent Emery, Mark Morgan, and Guy Oseary.
Casting is currently underway in Los Angeles and New York by veteran casting director Lynn Kressel (Bad Boys, Don Juan Demarco, Spider Man, Way of the Gun).
Jill,
That was a good link to the Alternet article. I do hope that the Obama administration will do the right thing and instruct the Justice Department to investigage the torture authorizations. Without the top dogs being held accountable, why should any citizen follow any law? We could use that ridiculous excuse that Mukasey used and claim we were did the crime for a higher purpose. That type of logic should have produced a loud laugh from all citizens.
FFLEO,
I thought her argument about the supreme court ruling invalidating pardons was quite interesting. I hope it prevails.
Jill,
Thanks for that link. Ms.Cohn’s interpretation certainly fits my “bias” regarding the need to prosecute Bush/Cheney et al. Cohn recapped the issue perfectly. Some excerpts:
“Our federal War Crimes Act defines torture as a war crime punishable by life imprisonment or even the death penalty if the victim dies.”
“Why is Cheney so sanguine about admitting he is a war criminal? Because he’s confident that either President Bush will preemptively pardon him or President-elect Obama won’t prosecute him. Both of those courses of action would be illegal.”
“First, a president cannot immunize himself or his subordinates for committing crimes that he himself authorized.”
“There is precedent in our law for holding lawyers criminally liable for participating in a common plan to violate the law.”
“Committee chairman Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., told Rachel Maddow that you cannot legalize what’s illegal by having a lawyer write an opinion.”
“Marjorie Cohn is a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and president of the National Lawyers Guild”
FFLEO,
He’ll probably try that!
Here’s an interesting article on Cheney’s admission to war crimes from Alternet:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/114325/why_was_cheney_so_quick_to_admit_he%27s_a_war_criminal/
“Indeed, Cheney casually confirmed his ordering of torture recently on television.”
Now, I aint no professional nor in anyway qualified in the tutelage of law, but Cheney’s statement would seem prima facie evidence to help convict him of torture in any world-wide tribunal.
If I were a crooked lawyer, I would advise Bush to admit that Cheney was the “real-guy-in-charge-de-facto-president” and to plea to the mercy of the court that he (bush) acted within the full legal scope of the ‘Stockholm Syndrome.’
Prof. Turley,
That was my experience during Law School! Jill, you are exactly correct that the Bush regime has worked very hard during the past 8 years to convince Americans that we should be afraid. And from the results of this study, it looks like they were successful. This is another reason why the Obama administration Must make a concerted effort to not only end the fear mongering, but to go after the torturers and hold them accountable as suggested recently by Sen. Levin and John Dean. The U.S. citizen must be reminded that torture has always been illegal and if condoned or authorized, the law will be enforced.
‘If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,’…
‘I will fight. I will fight. I will fight…’
‘…And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:…’
p.s. In all seriousness, another extremely interesting study is
Philip Zimbardo’s Stanford Prison experiment
http://www.prisonexp.org/
There’s a real irony to this story as psychologists, psychiatrists and other medical doctors all participated in the torture of US prisoners. In an exact parallel with the entire population regarding torture; some were active participants, some fought very hard against it, some justified it, some remained silent, some attacked those who spoke up.
The process of sorting it all out is difficult, but this same pattern does seem to repete itself again and again in human life, a good example being the post yesterday showing the pastor and congregants moving against their fellow congregant who was having sex with her boyfriend.
Sadists order cruelty but it’s only sometimes that true sadists answer the call. Many times people commit cruelty because they are terrified. They know what they’re doing isn’t right, but they do it anyway because to refuse participation could mean they will be tortured themselves, and I think, even more importantly, they will be torn away from belonging. Belonging is always important to us, but a situation of stress and fear makes the desire to belong even stronger. I think sadists know this and they deliberately create scenes of chaos, where people become desperate to cling to each other. If the price of belonging is harming someone else, there’s a very high chance harm will be done. That’s why paying close attention to the situation is so critical. If you look at cheneybush they have consistently created a climate of chaos and fear (they’re still at it) because they know this will create the most number of people willing to commit acts of astounding cruelty.
We have to be really careful in any chaotic situation, to know we are vunerable and try to counteract that force in our own thoughts and actions. I would like more information on what allows people to resist, because we need to know this so we may act with that knowledge.
Jill:
“Many times people commit cruelty because they are terrified. They know what they’re doing isn’t right, but they do it anyway because to refuse participation could mean they will be tortured themselves.”
That was precisely my experience during the tenure process.
Where do I turn in my “human” card. I would like to be an arctic fox now. Even these “dumb” creatures won’t needlessly inflict pain on their fellows. Humans a higher order?
Good luck with the talk tomorrow. Tell ’em we’re not all this bad!