Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond (R., Mo.), the vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, has told The Washington Times that Eric Holder privately assured him that there would be no prosecution of Bush officials for torture or unlawful acts. The story is reminiscent of last week’s statement by Gen. Michael Hayden that he was assured by President Obama that there would be no investigations or prosecutions allowed for war crimes committed by the Bush Administration. I discussed this story and the recent ACLU demand for the release of the torture and surveillance memos on this segment of Countdown.
Sen. Bond says that Holder secured his vote with the promise and the story has added to concerns by civil libertarians that the Democrats are playing another game of bait and switch on the issue: pretending to consider prosecution while privately assuring Republicans that no one will be held accountable.
While Holder denies the statement (and Obama denies the statement to Hayden), these concerns would be put to rest if the Administration would simply say that any alleged crimes will be investigated and, when the evidence warrants it, any accused criminals will be prosecuted. War crimes are not matters of discretionary politics. The fact that they are still not making that simple statement adds credibility to such accounts.
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Excuse the interuption, but I am new to this site and would like to know the protocal. It looks like an interesting site.
Thank you,
Jason
Buddha,
It does end badly for all. Failure to hold Nixon and Reagan accountable before the law set the groundwork for dick cheney’s rise to power and every bad thing cheneybush accomplished in the last 8 years. Our country is in shambles and it won’t get set right by ignoring the law. (This applies to the finacial crises as well.)
ends badly
sigh
Smaller is not always better, electronics manufacturers. Especially with keyboards.
this is really really disturbing…
shades of Mugabe all over this…
What will other nations think of us? In the long run, isn’t that an important strategic consideration for national defense?
Ugh…
bleh…
spew…
One love,
–Reverend Manny and the Twilight Empire
Hey, thanks Dredd. That’s exactly the case I was thinking of when I mentioned case law. I just won’t pay for Westlaw anymore.
Agreed, Jill. That’s why I’ve stated time and again, no punishment, no second term. Accountability is a two-edged sword. Use it properly or fall on it, someone gets hurt. But not holding the Neocons accountable isn’t an option. Well, it is, but it’s one that bend badly for all – especially if you hold public office.
oops … the website link did not conform to HTML … so
http://whitehouse.senate.gov/newsroom/speeches/speech/?id=f7196551-2160-44a9-81a5-e6340daf769e
hope that works …
There is a 5th Circuit case, cited by Senator Whitehouse, where a sherrif and his deputies were sent to prison for waterboarding prisoners. See US v Lee, 744 F.2d 1124 (5th Cir 1984).
The issue is discussed at Senator Whitehouse’s website quoting from one of his addresses to the ABA.
Here’s a link to a list of what’s known of the missing memos (in some cases it’s only the title, sometimes more. They are listed as public and secret:
http://www.propublica.org/special/missing-memos
mespo and Mike A.,
I didn’t get to see what you wrote earlier on this topic but I don’t think the analysis that Holder is being set up squares with the facts. JT has pointed out in both cases that there’s a really easy way for Holder and Obama to not get set up–they can say they will follow the law. Neither has done so. It may be a trick by Holder and Obama and let’s all hope it is. What worries me is that people are bending over backward to find explanations for Obama when they would never have done that with Bush or McCain. People would be screaming and suspicious if Bush or McCain had done the same thing. Bush didn’t get to do all the illegal and immoral things he did because there were just a few really bad people who supported him (although these people were right there, proping him up). Bush’s actions were overlooked and supported by good people who believed he was a good man looking out for the nation’s welfare. I know that those of us who don’t like Bush (to put it midly) would like to think everyone who supported him was cut from the same pile of shit that he was, but that’s not true. I feel the left is doing the same as the good intended supporters of Bush did–not checking things out, believing things that don’t really fit with the facts, all because we want to believe. It’s a dangerous path.
Jonolan,
Under article VI of the US Constitution any treaty that has been made is considered the law of the land. Since the Geneva convention defines water boarding as torture, US law considers water boarding torture (and did well before the Geneva convention). The former VP admitted on television to ordering water-boarding. Seems to be pretty easy to figure out what he could be charged with.
And if you think a ridiculous little PNAC Nazi deserves better than flip snark, you’d only be right if you consider a beating better than snark. Evil is as evil does. So no whining as you get increasingly marginalized until you are invisible. You are already ineffective. And discredited. And exposed.
You really don’t realize how badly you stepped in it, do you, sport? You might as well come in here and announced you like raping dogs and eating children as to say you support PNAC.
By the way, the tactic of agreeing to appear reasonable? That’s amateur night too. Your cat is way too out of the bag for it to work.
What’s that? Who farted?
Buddha:
I am all for having Bush not prosecuted if I can stop paying my taxes. If I can stop paying my taxes and have him prosecuted I am all for that too. Now you are talking. If you want Bush prosecuted lets suspend all taxes you will have me on board in a heart beat. He wasnt much of conservative anyway so no great loss.
The Troll
Petr,
I too hope it’s the FDR Bait and Switch, but until first blood is drawn, the Obama Administration needs to be ridden hard on this issue.
All I have to say is don’t prosecute Bush and see how well that second term goes right in the toilet. Not punishing them leads to one outcome – civil strife if not outright civil war. So go ahead, keep letting the guilty go and rubbing it in We The People’s face. It’s a recipe for violence. History speaks volumes.
I am very good at prediction. I only state this because this worries me. I bat about .750. Well before 9/11 I predicted that our civil liberties would come under attack from internal enemies under the guise of fighting terrorism either real or fabricated. I missed a couple of the specifics, my time line was off a little, but the overall analysis was correct. I’d rather be wrong this time. But this is where the rubber meets the road – it’s either justice for all or justice for none.
Let Bush Co go if you want to drive the last nails into the coffin of democracy and the rule of law. Because in doing so, you guarantee that respect and compliance for and with the law will go down hill much much faster than you anticipate. Right in the toilet. People stopping paying their taxes will only be the start. You’ll even try to spin dissenters as “domestic terrorists”. Once started, this elevator only stops in the basement. Letting Bush goes takes the path toward anarchy and/or revolution. It guarantees a future of lawlessness. I know it my bones. I’m ready for either choice made. Democrats or Republicans whom despite their thought are NOT enshrined in the Constitution but BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES ARE OPTIONAL AND WE ARE FREE TO DISCARD OR DESTROY THEM AS WE THE PEOPLE WILL. Got that, Neocons? You hear that GOP regulars? Are you listening Democrats? Because that’s the fact. Most here are Libertarians in action despite their affiliations. Most of us are well educated and highly motivated. Do those who post here seem like a good group to have against you or to attempt to repress? If so, I submit you have poor targeting discretion. Criminals are criminals regardless of party. Had Bush been a Democrat, I’d still want his head on stick. They are evil men. Support them, become them. It’s that simple.
Choose carefully. The fate of the Great Experiment is counting on you, Obama. But you need to sacrifice the guilty for the common good to heal this nation. That’s a fact.
Is it possible that it’s the other way ’round? Dems are pretending, to the repubs, that no one will be held accountable while working feverishly to bring those to account.
That certainly maps more cleanly to my view of both Democrats and Republicans: the one kinda subtle and the other… well.. not.
It’s also, methinks, entirely possible that, like FDR, Obama and other Dems have mastered the dissemblers touch: that form of negotiation… (diplomacy?…) whereby all parties are left thinking they have agreement when in fact some are about to be take to the woodshed. It was, I’m told, one of FDRs greatest weapons…
Under what actual US statutes would these people be prosecuted? From what I read of our laws regarding such things, there are no applicable charges to level against anyone.
On a more pragmatic note – If Obama is planning, as he said, on expanding what forms of interrogation are allowed by the US Army Field manual, he’s hardly going to allow any investigations until those changes are made. It be very embarrassing to add something to our arsenal and then have those same sort of actions be used by the prosecution in a trial.
We talked about this last night on another thread. I agree with Mike Appleton that this smells of an attempt to undermine Holder before any investigation begins. I also find the promises in the dark rarely get kept.